Let me ask you this - why did she say that it was a black man who robbed her? If you think about the answer, you will realize what her true intentions were in this whole mess.
Doesn't really matter if they condone it. I mean, of course they don't condone it anymore than they condoned cries of "Off with his head", "Terrorist" and "Kill him" at their rallies, or the "Palin mob" commentary.
When coals are stoked, we get a fire. When that fire rages out of control though and harms something, the guys who started it have to be held responsible regardless of their intentions before, or condolences afterwards, because they knew the risk.
The way I see it is, even if she was completely bat-shit bonkers, the fear that McCain's campaign created is still the initiator of what occured.
I don't believe the McCain campaign should suffer politically for this just because it's something that would've helped them in some way or another if it were the truth. But I do believe there should be some admission of accountability in their rhetoric; or they should indeed suffer politically for an absence of shown accountability.
Words matter. I'm not saying a stump speech is as strongly connected to this incident as the word "Recession" uttered by Bush to the stock market, but I don't believe it's a long stretch at all with the around-the-clock airtime and robocalls of Ayers talk.
I mean, you say yourself she tried to "help the poll numbers", and that it was "calculated". Not to dissect your words, and in fact I agree with you about everything 'cept extending my own sympathies or leniency, but I believe her doing it to "help" shows motive different than insanity, and it being "calculated" meant she knew exactly how and why it would "help".
I simply don't believe she'd have done it if it weren't for the fear McCain and Palin have decided to create. Whether that fear deluded Todd or merely figured into her calculations, it was essential; 'else this wouldn't have happened.
McCain-Palin's rhetoric empowered this kind of behavior.
If you are going to start blaming candidates for inciting this kind of behavior you would have to start by putting blame here:
After Obama got everyone riled up for change in Kenya, by endorsing his cousin and then his cousin lost the election, an angry mob of 2000 of his supporters went on a mass killing spree killing over a thousand people, hacking them to death with machetes.
Barack Obama and Raila Odinga -- Did the Illinois senator violate the Logan Act in campaigning for his "ethnic cleansing" cousin's bid for the Kenyan presidency?
Let me ask you this - why did she say that it was a black man who robbed her? If you think about the answer, you will realize what her true intentions were in this whole mess.
Yes her true intentions were that she thought in her own demented reality that she was going to beat herself up blame a "black Obama supporter" and incite more racism and anger against Obama and gain her some twisted sort of "fame". All a very obvious serious mental health issue. she should be considered a danger to herself and others and be forced to get mental help immediately.
About 50 parishioners were locked into the Assemblies of God church before it was set ablaze. They were mostly women and children. Those who tried to flee were hacked to death by machete-wielding members of a mob numbering 2,000.
The 2008 New Year Day atrocity in the Kenyan village Eldoret, about 185 miles northwest of Nairobi, had all the markings of the Rwanda genocide of a decade earlier.
By mid-February 2008, more than 1,500 Kenyans were killed. Many were slain by machete-armed attackers. More than 500,000 were displaced by the religious strife. Villages lay in ruin. Many of the atrocities were perpetrated by Muslims against Christians.
The violence was led by supporters of Raila Odinga, the opposition leader who lost the Dec. 27, 2007, presidential election by more than 230,000 votes. Odinga supporters began the genocide hours after the final election results were announced Dec. 30. Mr. Odinga was a member of Parliament representing an area in western Kenya, heavily populated by the Luo tribe, and the birthplace of Barack Obama's father.
Mr. Odinga had the backing of Kenya's Muslim community heading into the election. For months he denied any ties to Muslim leaders, but fell silent when Sheik Abdullahi Abdi, chairman of the National Muslim Leaders Forum, appeared on Kenya television displaying a memorandum of understanding signed on Aug. 29, 2007, by Mr. Odinga and the Muslim leader. Mr. Odinga then denied his denials.
The details of the MOU were shocking. In return for Muslim backing, Mr. Odinga promised to impose a number of measures favored by Muslims if he were elected president. Among these were recognition of "Islam as the only true religion," Islamic leaders would have an "oversight role to monitor activities of ALL other religions [emphasis in original]," installation of Shariah courts in every jurisdiction, a ban on Christian preaching, replacement of the police commissioner who "allowed himself to be used by heathens and Zionists," adoption of a women's dress code, and bans on alcohol and pork.
This was not Mr. Odinga's first brush with notoriety. Like his father, Jaramogi Oginga Odinga, the main opposition leader in the 1960s and 1970s, Raila Odinga is a Marxist He graduated from East Germany's Magdeburg University in 1970 on a scholarship provided by the East German government. He named his oldest son after Fidel Castro.
Raila Odinga was implicated in the bloody coup attempt in 1982 against then-President Daniel Arap Moi, a close ally of the United States. Kenya has been one of the most stable democracies in Africa since the 1960s. The ethnic cleansing earlier this year was the worst violence in Kenya since that 1982 coup attempt.
Mr. Odinga spent eight years in prison. At the time, he denied guilt but later detailed he was a coup leader in his 2006 biography. Statue of limitations precluded further prosecution when the biography appeared.
Initially, Mr. Odinga was not the favored opposition candidate to stand in the 2007 election against President Mwai Kibaki, who was seeking his second term. However, he received a tremendous boost when Sen. Barack Obama arrived in Kenya in August 2006 to campaign on his behalf. Mr. Obama denies that supporting Mr. Odinga was the intention of his trip, but his actions and local media reports tell otherwise.
Mr. Odinga and Mr. Obama were nearly inseparable throughout Mr. Obama's six-day stay. The two traveled together throughout Kenya and Mr. Obama spoke on behalf of Mr. Odinga at numerous rallies. In contrast, Mr. Obama had only criticism for Kibaki. He lashed out against the Kenyan government shortly after meeting with the president on Aug. 25. "The [Kenyan] people have to suffer over corruption perpetrated by government officials," Mr. Obama announced.
"Kenyans are now yearning for change," he declared. The intent of Mr. Obama's remarks and actions was transparent to Kenyans - he was firmly behind Mr. Odinga.
Mr. Odinga and Mr. Obama had met several times before the 2006 trip. Reports indicate Mr. Odinga visited Mr. Obama during trips to the U.S. in 2004, 2005 and 2006. Mr. Obama sent his foreign policy adviser Mark Lippert to Kenya in early 2006 to coordinate his summer visit. Mr. Obama's August trip coincided with strategizing by Orange Democratic Movement leaders to defeat Mr. Kibaki in the upcoming elections. Mr. Odinga represented the ODM ticket in the presidential race.
Mr. Odinga and Mr. Obama's father were both from the Luo community, the second-largest tribe in Kenya, but their ties run much deeper. Mr. Odinga told a stunned BBC Radio interviewer the reason why he and Mr. Obama were staying in near daily telephone contact was because they were cousins. In a Jan. 8, 2008, interview, Mr. Odinga said Mr. Obama had called him twice the day before while campaigning in the New Hampshire primary before adding, "Barack Obama's father is my maternal uncle."
President Kibaki requested a meeting of all opposition leaders in early January in an effort to quell the violence. All agreed to attend except Mr. Odinga. A month later, Mr. Kibaki offered Mr. Odinga the role of prime minister, the de facto No. 2 in the Kenyan government, in return for an end to the attacks. Mr. Odinga was sworn in on April 17, 2008.
Mr. Obama's judgment is seriously called into question when he backs an official with troubling ties to Muslim extremists and whose supporters practice ethnic cleansing and genocide. It was Islamic extremists in Kenya who bombed the U.S. Embassy in 1998, killing more than 200 and injuring thousands. None of this has dissuaded Mr. Obama from maintaining disturbing loyalties.
Obama concedes mistake over Muslim outreach meeting
The Obama campaign?s Muslim outreach director participated in a meeting in mid September that was attended by several controversial Muslim activists, NBC News has learned. The Obama campaign now concedes that was a misjudgment, and that its top Muslim staffer would not have attended the meeting if she had known the full participant list beforehand.
?Would a campaign staffer have attended if they were aware of the complete list of attendees? No,? said Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt in an email statement to NBC.
The Muslim outreach meeting
On September 15, newly named Muslim outreach director Minha Husaini spoke to a small group of Muslim leaders and potential Obama supporters at a hotel in Springfield, Virginia, several meeting participants and the campaign said. Two other Obama-affiliated Democratic Party workers joined Husaini and also spoke to the crowd. Some Virginia and Washington, D.C.-based Muslim activists and interested citizens attended, and flyers were passed out from ?Arab Americans for Obama? stating Sen. Obama?s goals for achieving peace in the Middle East, protecting the civil liberties of Arab Americans and ending the war in Iraq.
Several participants told NBC News that Husaini and other speakers delivered a standard Obama campaign pitch. ?They said, ?We?re here to get the concerns of Muslim voters and let everyone know that the Obama campaign does want the support of the Muslim community,? ? recalled one participant, who requested anonymity. The meeting was not advertised and some attendees got text phone messages notifying them that day of the meeting?s location, the participant said.
Nearly a month later, the meeting is drawing controversy--and not because of anything said at the meeting itself.
The attendees
One meeting attendee was Mahdi Bray of the Muslim American Society, several of the participants said. The MAS website describes Bray as an imam and ?long time civil and human rights activist.? Bray?s critics say he has a history of defending terrorists. They point to a video of Bray at a rally in 2000, for example, in which he can be seen pumping his fist in the air in support of the terrorist groups Hamas and Hezbollah. In a 2004 interview, he called the Israeli assassination of a Hamas spiritual leader an ?unlawful, cowardly and dangerous act of state-sponsored terrorism.? Bray did not return a call requesting comment.
Also attending the meeting was Nihad Awad, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations. CAIR is a Muslim-American civil rights group that has, as its website states, ?consistently and persistently condemned terrorism and the killing of innocent civilians.? Nonetheless, the group has many critics, especially in law-enforcement circles, and is an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation terrorism financing case.
In an interview on Thursday, CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper said that the group has filed a legal brief seeking to have its name removed from the list of unindicted co-conspirators in the federal terror case. ?Obviously we see it as politically motivated and a cheap way to stigmatize? CAIR and other Muslim groups, Hooper said.
Hooper said that CAIR has consistently condemned ?every act of terrorism? by groups including Hamas and Hezbollah. But he would not answer whether CAIR condemns those designated terrorist groups themselves. ?I?ve already answered your questions,? he said, and abruptly ended the interview. Nihad Awad, the executive director, did not return a call seeking comment.
"Political liability"
A second meeting participant speaking on condition on anonymity said he was stunned to learn that Awad and Bray had been invited to an event where Obama representatives would be present. The participant said Awad and Bray are considered politically ?radioactive.? He said that some in the Obama group knew ahead of time that top CAIR officials would be in attendance--an allegation the Obama campaign disputes.
?Yes, when I knew they were coming it made me uncomfortable,? the attendee said. ?There was some hope it wouldn?t get out? into the media, the attendee added. ?There was some concern within the Obama camp that some of these people coming may be a political liability.?
Chicago-based lawyer Mazen Asbahi also attended the meeting. He is the Obama campaign?s former Muslim outreach coordinator, who abruptly resigned in August after the Wall Street Journal and websites that track fundamentalist Islam began questioning Asbahi?s involvement in an Islamic investment fund and various Islamic groups. When reached by NBC News, Asbahi would not comment about the September gathering or his brief stint eight years ago on an investment fund board which also included a fundamentalist imam.
When informed that Asbahi had attended the recent meeting, an Obama spokesman said: ?Mazen Asbahi resigned from his role as the campaign?s Muslim American outreach coordinator and was replaced--he is not an employee of the campaign and does not speak on behalf of the campaign.?
The Obama campaign has been delicately trying to court Muslim American voters in key battleground states while simultaneously knocking down Internet rumors that attempt to link the presidential candidate to radical Islam. Sen. Obama is a Christian.
Obama campaign reaction
The Obama campaign would not allow NBC News to interview its Muslim outreach director, Minha Husaini. It issued a statement explaining that she was not a meeting organizer. ?Our campaign has an interfaith outreach organization that is equipping people of faith with the tools they need to educate their friends and family members about Senator Obama?s plans to bring the change we need,? the statement said. ?This meeting was not organized by the campaign--our outreach staff attends many meetings in the course of each day, and they accepted an invitation from community leaders to attend.?
Regardless of what she is that doesn't give any weight to this issue.
ok, so one conservative thinks it was a fake before the story was fully realized. and that makes you master of the universe? puh-leeeeez.
It means that jumping to conclusions before you have even a smattering of a notion of the facts makes you look foolish.
read your own damn foolish sentence. WHO declared it a false story before the facts were in? me? it was you. again, you just got lucky on THIS story. it doesn't make your spewage any less fowl.
Devil, don't bother...siobabble will use a big word to try and make your story false. Truth means nothing to them. I'm reminded of a scripture... Don't cast your pearls before swine. let's just talk about the girl that faked being beat up. that way it fits our liberal talking point better.
by the way, used to live in big D, just moved a few hours north a couple months ago. Lived in both Irving and Lewisville...good times.
I deep ellum down here ! if I wasn't resting a hurt ankle tonight that is where I would be lol!
Devil, don't bother...siobabble will use a big word to try and make your story false. Truth means nothing to them. I'm reminded of a scripture... Don't cast your pearls before swine. let's just talk about the girl that faked being beat up. that way it fits our liberal talking point better.
by the way, used to live in big D, just moved a few hours north a couple months ago. Lived in both Irving and Lewisville...good times.
I deep ellum down here ! if I wasn't resting a hurt ankle tonight that is where I would be lol!
never went there..lol. Verizon kept me tethered to a cubicle until my eyes fell out :P
The girl that faked this beating should be made an example of for others to think twice about trying to fake anything.
On the other hand... news about Joe the Plumber...
"State and local officials are investigating if state and law-enforcement computer systems were illegally accessed when they were tapped for personal information about "Joe the Plumber."
Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher became part of the national political lexicon Oct. 15 when Republican presidential candidate John McCain mentioned him frequently during his final debate with Democrat Barack Obama.
The 34-year-old from the Toledo suburb of Holland is held out by McCain as an example of an American who would be harmed by Obama's tax proposals.
Public records requested by The Dispatch disclose that information on Wurzelbacher's driver's license or his sport-utility vehicle was pulled from the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles database three times shortly after the debate.
Information on Wurzelbacher was accessed by accounts assigned to the office of Ohio Attorney General Nancy H. Rogers, the Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency and the Toledo Police Department.
It has not been determined who checked on Wurzelbacher, or why. Direct access to driver's license and vehicle registration information from BMV computers is restricted to legitimate law enforcement and government business.
Paul Lindsay, Ohio spokesman for the McCain campaign, attempted to portray the inquiries as politically motivated. "It's outrageous to see how quickly Barack Obama's allies would abuse government power in an attempt to smear a private citizen who dared to ask a legitimate question," he said.
end quote..
Should this story be any less news?
One is a girl acting the nut case, this one is about people trying to destroy a person who is politically opposed to them. Yet they get the same weight by MSM. oh wait...no...this story won't be in the NYT. They wanted 2 front page stories about Palin's wardrobe instead.
Originally posted by Faxxer One is a girl acting the nut case, this one is about people trying to destroy a person who is politically opposed to them.
I think that if the situation was reversed, and a black woman had said that a white McCain supporter had attacked her, you wouldn't be so easy on the woman. Judging by your past comments Faxxer, you would say something along the lines of "This is what all libs do, they lie." It would be a conspiracy. But since she is a McCain supporter, she is just mentally ill and had no real motivations.
She had an agenda and she was busted. I'll tell you one thing, if I was a black man I would be so offended by this. The woman is obviously racist as well, why couldn't it have been a white Obama supporter, or a Latino? No it was a black man, because all black men are robbers and criminals right? I really, really am starting to think that a lot of you Conservatives from the southern states are just racist and don't want a black man to run your country. And I'm not the only "Lib" that thinks this way, trust me on that.
Originally posted by Faxxer One is a girl acting the nut case, this one is about people trying to destroy a person who is politically opposed to them.
I think that if the situation was reversed, and a black woman had said that a white McCain supporter had attacked her, you wouldn't be so easy on the woman. Judging by your past comments Faxxer, you would say something along the lines of "This is what all libs do, they lie." It would be a conspiracy. But since she is a McCain supporter, she is just mentally ill and had no real motivations.
She had an agenda and she was busted. I'll tell you one thing, if I was a black man I would be so offended by this. The woman is obviously racist as well, why couldn't it have been a white Obama supporter, or a Latino? No it was a black man, because all black men are robbers and criminals right? I really, really am starting to think that a lot of you Conservatives from the southern states are just racist and don't want a black man to run your country. And I'm not the only "Lib" that thinks this way, trust me on that.
I would have been just as supportive, though if the case had been exposed as a fraud you would have jessejackson and everyone else screaming we were attacking her credibility because she was black. That would be the only difference here.
Originally posted by deviliscious I would have been just as supportive, though if the case had been exposed as a fraud you would have jessejackson and everyone else screaming we were attacking her credibility because she was black. That would be the only difference here.
I'm sure that you personally would have devil, but not some of your fellow Republicans.
And yea, Jesse Jackson would have had an aneurysm if this had happened the other way around.
Originally posted by deviliscious I would have been just as supportive, though if the case had been exposed as a fraud you would have jessejackson and everyone else screaming we were attacking her credibility because she was black. That would be the only difference here.
I'm sure that you personally would have devil, but not some of your fellow Republicans.
And yea, Jesse Jackson would have had an aneurysm if this had happened the other way around.
I am not a republican, but am being forced to vote for one this year due to Obamas plans, I have no other choice. Obamas plans downright scare me ! If Dems had given me Marcy Kaptur I would have voted for her all the way!
You missed the mark. Even Walmart, for their size, does not provide health care to over 9 million employees, retirees, and dependants worldwide. There is only one employer in the country that does that. I'm not going to make it easy for you. You have to work for this one. You work in a hospital, go ask a doctor, or the insurance area, which employer offers around 350 different health care plans and covers 9 million people. After they answer, ask them how good that employers health benefits program is. Then go to that employers health benefits web homepage and review the coverage offered. Then consider it is $6,000/yr for a family of four. $1,500 per person. Can you do better?
Do you have any idea the costs to the Tax payers already to pay for the FEHB? Healthcare is already higher than our defense budget just to cover what it does now, you add the rest of the 300,000,000people in this country and what are the costs of that now? In order for it to be $1,500 per person The government picks up the rest of the tab ... You have to take into consideration the total amount to emplyer and employee spent on coverage, unless you bring the core costs of healthcare down there is no way the government could ever afford to do that, that is why there is a need for employers as it is to foot part of the bill. In order to pay for this plan the Tax payers would have to Pay alot more, all across the board. SO our actual costs would be more not less per person for the coverage than $1,500 per person.
The plans are not provided just from the government, they contract this out to other companies.. which cover much more than just the government.
PS> bringing the core costs of healthcare down also results in bringing the quality down. You get what you pay for.
Congratulations, you win a cookie. Thank you for playing "Who am I". By the way, do you know how much money the war in Iraq costs? Do you know how much money the bailout costs? Do you know how much wealth we shift from the American taxpayers to the countries of Israel, Columbia, Peru, and a whole host of poorer countries around the world, such as those in Africa? Welfare for Americans is evil, welfare for the rest of the world is okay? You must be a neo-conservative ditto head. Cost of healthcare for every American is too high, cost of healthcare for every African, Asian, and South and Central American can never be high enough. Socialism in America is evil, so we should just stick to socialism for those outside America.
Bush/McCain don't want American subsidized health care for Americans, they want American subsidized health care for every other poor person outside America. World Socialism, just not in America. The Bush/McCain mantra is, "Who said money can't buy you love?" For all the money we send to Iraq and Pakistan, they really love us, don't they?
Now try to think outside the box of Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Fox News, and join the real world.
The neo con ditto head arguement is that "BIG GOVERNMENT" will chose your health care. In FEHB "BIG GOVERNMENT" lets people choose from about 350 plans and coverages. Neo-con ditto head arguement fails to hold up.
The neo con ditto head arguement is that "BIG GOVERNMENT" is inefficient, will mismanage healthcare, and drive the costs up. In FEHB "BIG GOVERNMENT" has over 60 years of experience in managing health care, has among the best coverages in the nation, and has among the most competitive costs in the nation. They do that by risk sharing, pooling 9 milliion people. Neo-con ditto head arguement fails to hold up.
Neo con ditto head arguement is that "You don't want BIG GOVERNMENT deciding when you will, or will not, receive health care". Under FEHB the individual chooses when they go to the doctor, and what health care they receive. BIG GOVERNMENT only guarantees coverage, and monitors the performance of the health care insurance provider. Neo con ditto head arguement fails to hold up.
Now let's turn to your neo con ditto head arguement regarding cost. Let's take a national insurer, BCBS as an example. We'll use 2009 rates right off the FEHB website.
There is a choice of BCBS Standard, or Basic. The government share of BCBS Standard, which, if you check the website coverage, would be what a family would choose (BCBS Basic is more aimed at younger, healthy, single people, and costs less), is $9,152 per year. With a typical family of 4, that is $2,288/person per year. Let's assume for discussion perposes that all 300,000,000 of the population of the United States is comprised of a family of four and chooses BCBS Standard. That's 75,000,000 family units of four times $9,152, or $700 billion per year. In 2007 health care spending in the United States reached $2.3 trillion. Thus, providing health care under a FEHB program is approximately 33% of the annual spending, plus some additional percent for individual out of pocket costs, and would cover most major health care costs. Thus, though the dollars appear big, a FEHB type program would actually decrease America's annual health care costs, and provide coverage for all the taxpayers. Unless, of course, you believe that FEHB BCBS is substandard and doesn't cover most health care costs. In that case, there is no hope for you.
Without a government sponsored health care plan we spend 4.3 times the national defense budget on health care, approximately 16% of gross domestic product. This cost is already paid by employers that provide health care, and by individuals out of their own pocket. It is not about cost increases, it is about cost shifting to provide coverage and to take advantage of the economies of scale. Neo-con ditto head arguement fails to hold up.
Who pays, you ask? As a Democrat I would say that both the individual does, and the corporations do, through a measured tax increase. Well, a ditto head neo conservative would just say "borrow it". After all, Democrats tax and spend, which is evil, Republicans borrow and spend, which is good. The fact of the matter is, you can't have something for nothing. There are no free rides, everyone pays one way or another. Unless you've figured out a way to currently get health care for free.
So, who pays currently? Corporations and individuals. By shifting this additional cost from business to the government, business becomes more price competitive against foreign governments that provide national healthcare. The alternative is that business will continue to eliminate health care for employees to become price competitive, and Americans will not have health care. Don't think business will continue to see their market errode due to price, and say "That's okay, we understand, we're providing employee health care". You have already seen the defined benefit pension plan and defined contribution pension plan go away in favor of each individual having the "choice" of the IRA/401K. General Motors just announced, no matching for employees, eliminated. So, tell me, how is your retirement plan doing now? You happy with your investment results?
But of course, you're self employed, you don't care about employer paid health care, do you? The neo-con ditto head response is, "That's not fair, that guy over there has employer provided health care, you don't. We have to make it fair and take that benefit away from him." To which you bob your head up and down, and say, "Yes, make it fair, take it away from him", rather then, "Go fuck yourself, I want to be pooled in a group policy, rather than an individual policy." They sell you on the idea of business eliminating your health care by telling you that now you get to make your own "choice". The 350 plans of FEHB just aren't enough "choice" for you, are they?
General Motors has already ELIMINATED retiree health care, shifting it to the federal government anyway. Corporate America is already SLASHING health care to compete. Your scenario just creates more uninsured and underinsured people that cannot afford health sevrices.
Hell of a trade off. But at least the people will have "choice", and "Big Government" out of health care.
Congratulations, you win a cookie. Thank you for playing "Who am I". By the way, do you know how much money the war in Iraq costs? Do you know how much money the bailout costs? Do you know how much wealth we shift from the American taxpayers to the countries of Israel, Columbia, Peru, and a whole host of poorer countries around the world, such as those in Africa? Welfare for Americans is evil, welfare for the rest of the world is okay? You must be a neo-conservative ditto head. Cost of healthcare for every American is too high, cost of healthcare for every African, Asian, and South and Central American can never be high enough. Socialism in America is evil, so we should just stick to socialism for those outside America.
( and a whole lot more)
First off There is not a whole lot we can do about being at war, in fact it will gte worse no matter who becomes president. We cannot take a big eraser and make it all go away.. We cannot change what is already set into motion and Obama has never had any intention of stopping any war. he didn't even want to pull troops out of Iraq until it became unpopular for him to oppose it. He lies about alot of things and the war has been a big one.
Obama said he never wanted to pull troops out of iraq, and didn;t want a timeline to remove them:
Mark my words," the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. "It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."
"I've forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know, so I'm not being falsely humble with you. I think I can be value added, but this guy has it," the Senate Foreign Relations chairman said of Obama. "This guy has it. But he's gonna need your help. Because I promise you, you all are gonna be sitting here a year from now going, 'Oh my God, why are they there in the polls? Why is the polling so down? Why is this thing so tough?' We're gonna have to make some incredibly tough decisions in the first two years. So I'm asking you now, I'm asking you now, be prepared to stick with us. Remember the faith you had at this point because you're going to have to reinforce us."
"There are gonna be a lot of you who want to go, 'Whoa, wait a minute, yo, whoa, whoa, I don't know about that decision'," Biden continued. "Because if you think the decision is sound when they're made, which I believe you will when they're made, they're not likely to be as popular as they are sound. Because if they're popular, they're probably not sound."
I opposed sending of ground troops into Iraq, because I knew that if we went in there there was no way we could ever fully pull out. Why? because we just wiped out the defenses to the country which holds the Biblical site of Armegeddon. If we leave it defensless every religious fanatic out there will go to where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers meet and try to start it. All of the surrounding areas are EXTREMELY hostile, and the only reason they stayed out before was because everyone was terrified of saddam. Without us there to be Iraq's defense the entire area will errupt in the largest Holy war this planet has ever seen.
If Nato had allowed both Georgia and the Ukraine into Nato, Russia would have cut off oil supply to Europe and would try to bully them into submission. So no, Us went into georgia instead. Why does Russia want georgia , The ukraine, and Poland defenseless? Russia wants total control over European oil and natural gas, Georgia has the oil lines ruiing into Eurpoe from the middle east. Ukraine has the only russian oil lines running into Germany, and Poland is their staging point for attack if they are going to attack Europe.
Stabilizing Iraq and Kuwait solidifies middle eastern oil supply for Europe, so that if they were to strong arm Russia, Russia does not control their oil any longer. Most people do not understand the full scope of what is actually going on here. Even when we reduce our numbers in Iraq we will not be able to give Afgahnistan our full attention because we have Isreal over here wanting to take out Iran before Iran takes them out, and I think this will happen before anything else.
So how can we at this time cut our military budget? We cannot and will not be able to for a long time without putting ourselves at risk. We are at war, we just have to accept that , denying it doesn't make it go away, or make people not want to "wipe us from the face of the earth". You know it is funny most Americans think we are the only one at war here, we have all of our allies at war right now on many different fronts. There is alot more to the "war on terror" than killing Osama Bin Laden, even when we kill him the war will be far from over. Sometimes things aren't so cut and dry, and in war they never are.
AS it is the world cries out that we do not do enough to provide for the poor nations , even though in total dollar amount we give more than just about anyone, but our per person ratio is far less than other nations and that is why they complain. Yes I do think we need to take care of our own first, but we simply will not have the money to cover these plans at least not until the unrests in the middle east is quited and Europe is secure and free from
Russian oil. Why can't we reduce our military budget right now?:
This is what it boils down to but be careful or you will be accused of using the race card. You sum it up when you say"if this was an obama supporter" .If the tables were turned the right wing idiots on this forum would be crying blue murder. Hold on to your white hoods ,i am about to use the race card.. Let`s not forget that mcfrail and his grandpapa and great grandpapa were nasty slave owning racists who raped their own slave when ever they felt like it. Weather people on here want to admit it or not but many DO have issues with Obama`s colour so when a WHITE racist pulls this kind of stunt they are very understanding and look for excuses to defend her.
McCain is not a racist. You do realize this is his daughter and the reason no one hears about her is that she was attacked by the press eyars ago and he has tried to protect her from being attacked this go around?
In reference to Olddaddy's FEHB health care post (thanks for that)...
I remember when I was under my mother's FEHB BCBS coverage, they took care of business. When at 16 I developed sciatica pains, they covered MRIs at Johns Hopkins to discover the possibly congenital slippage of a vertebrae and disc and treatment as needed -- good times. At 21 when I came out from under that umbrella I probably missed some opportunity to maintain (and start paying independently for) that BCBS -- I instead went uncovered for perhaps a year before being getting involved with another provider.
It turns out the only way any private insurance company was going to cover me was if I signed off on a rider, a waiver, that released them from any responsibility regarding treatment of what boils down to 'back related injuries'. Sure, it's more technical than that, and some companies even provide clauses that allow the rider to be dropped if said condition is not shown to be an issue for say 5, or 10 years. The practical result is that the one thing I need semi-regular treatment and care for is the one thing no private insurer will ever pay for because it's not profitable for them to do so -- Nine years later I still cannot afford imaging or physical therapy on my own so it goes essentially untreated.
I have to say that the possibility of not being shrugged off anymore because of 'pre-existing conditions' is what seals the deal for me regarding the health care plans on the table. I feel that the FEHB program would be a breath of fresh air for so many people, and the choice of treatment for conditions that need treatment instead of treatment for conditions that are profitable is, in my opinion, a no brainer.
*warning changing gears*
Wait a sec - what is this thread about? Oh yeah, that girl that lied, a lot, over and over. You know, you have to try and love people for who they are and try not to hate them for what they do, but that's no reason to tolerate this sort of behavior. I would have to dig up the reference, but I believe I read that she told the 'story' to a friend first, and taking this to the police involved some level of encouragement from her peers. She reminds me of an estranged friend I know from gaming and this sounds like her 'story' might not have ever been intended for major media -- it sounds like she was just seeking attention from her peers. Through six years of MMO gaming I have made friends around the world and from all walks of life -- we met on common ground to share good times and that allowed us to transcend nearly all of our differences in opinion, ideology, politics, you name it. As it happends, at least one of my MMO friends is a compulsive liar.
Mostly this manifested in the form of grandiose tales of high adventure within game, but when we moved onto Teamspeak it became clear that the problem was deeper. Still, as a group of friends we collectively tolerated the absurd tales that would, if we were to believe them, make our one particular friend out to be some sort of James-Bond-by-happenstance one day, and witness to a series of preposterous events the next, and so on. To say that this 'fictional posturing for attention' was inflated even more when a female guild-mate was around would be an understatement. I just wonder if this didn't all start with a 'small lie' to her friends before her need to protect that lie inflated it into a national mini-scandal.
...and to think, Barney Frank wants to cut military spending by 25% when "democrats have control" ...beyond belief. We should be increasing military budget by 25%
Why? For what?
We're already wasting billions, and I'm not even talking about the utterly illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq, which costs us not only treasure, but blood.
If I were President, I'd kill SDI immediately. It's a total boondoggle with no military use whatsoever.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Regardless of what she is that doesn't give any weight to this issue.
ok, so one conservative thinks it was a fake before the story was fully realized. and that makes you master of the universe? puh-leeeeez.
It means that jumping to conclusions before you have even a smattering of a notion of the facts makes you look foolish.
read your own damn foolish sentence. WHO declared it a false story before the facts were in? me? it was you. again, you just got lucky on THIS story. it doesn't make your spewage any less fowl.
Faxxer, you're projecting. AGAIN.
I was advising not jumping to a conclusion. As noted communist Michelle Malkin was. Meanwhile, Hugh Hewitt was like you, jumping up and down with joy at race baiting.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Originally posted by deviliscious First off There is not a whole lot we can do about being at war, in fact it will gte worse no matter who becomes president. We cannot take a big eraser and make it all go away.. We cannot change what is already set into motion and Obama has never had any intention of stopping any war. he didn't even want to pull troops out of Iraq until it became unpopular for him to oppose it. He lies about alot of things and the war has been a big one. Obama said he never wanted to pull troops out of iraq, and didn;t want a timeline to remove them: www.youtube.com/watch ....and a whole lot more
Frankly, I really don't give two shits what Obama says. He's just as much an idiot as McCain.
American troops are no longer welcome in Iraq. There is an former American Colonel who was Chief of Staff to Petreas, and who is now a professor at (gag) THE Ohio State University, who has written a book about the Iraq War. He commanded the first amoured brigade when we first went in.
He states that Americans were welcomed as liberators for about the first 30 days, then Iraqis started wondering where was the electricity, where was the water, when was America going to help. Rumsfeld and Wolkowicz, the gang that couldn't think straight, fell down on the job, and very quickly the Iraqi's started seeing us not as the solution, but as part of the problem.
A commission, headed up by former Reagan Chief of Staff and Cabinet Secretary James Baker, who I consider a respected, well educated, articulate, and intelligent man, made a recommendation to bring Iraq's neighbors into the peace process. As a Western culture we are not seen in the same light as Islamic Arab peace keeping forces from places such as Jordan, Egypt, or the Gulf States. We need to bring them into the process and begin replacing American military forces with Arab peace keeping forces. We need to concentrate our efforts on reaching diplomatic consensus with the various factions within the Iraqi government and let Arab peace keeping forces maintain the peace, train the Iraqi Army and Security forces.
Further US military presence in Iraq is detrimental to the diplomatic process. However, peace in Iraq remains to fragile to allow them to be completely on their own at this time.
We have overstayed our welcome militarily, it is past time that we go. Now that the surge has stabilized the country we must execute an orderly rotation with Arab peacekeeping forces. It is a necessary step along the path to achieve political stability within Iraq.
Erm that`s his wifes idea to adopt that girl not mcfrails. Sindy mccain turned up on the doorstep with her,mcfrail had no choice. . As for mcfrail being a racist,well he is and his long line of family slave owning racists. Ask his malatto relatives what they think about the mcfrail family. Yeah that`s right,grandpapa and great grandpapa and his uncles had a real good time down on the plantation.Whippings and rape were the order of the day. Get your facts right, she was attacked by the same racist who attend his rallys and falins rallys now.The same type of person who carves a B into there face then blames it on a black man.Don`t make things up as you go along. Salute your next leader B.H.O...
I have heard his daughter talk about her "dad" there is alot of love in that family, and not just from her mother. It was McCains Idea to protect her from this campaign, and for good reason, NO she was attacked by his opponents, not his supporters. People like you that want to make slanderous attacks on a man that you know nothing about. Are you responsible for anything your ancestors did? SHould we be held accountable for things we did not do ourselves? McCain never took part in any of that and it is ignorant to blame him for things he did not do.
IF you want to talk about relatives here, why not talk about Obamas cousin, which he supported in Keyna and campaigned for in kenya, than after getting his supporters riled up for "change" they changed things allright, 2000 of his supporters went on a mass ethnic cleansing killing spree hacking 1,200 people to death with machetes. Oh yea and this was only what LAST YEAR?? not back in the days of SLavery, no this IS NOW> You need to get your facts straight before making hateful outlandish comments about Blaimng people for other peoples actions. What type of people take machetes and start killing all of their neighbors? Oh yea Kenyas Obama supporters!
There were more attacks on his daughter than just the republicans, they came FROM Both sides. I have seen countless attacks on her from the Liberal forums as well. This time by Obama supporters. I have seen these attacks myself, so trying to tell me that they don;t exist doesn't make them go away. you mention one set of people, but in fact there are many. AND NO IT WASN"T ME that said he was an arab, tyvm. I haven't called him anything. I think that is disgusting to insult people like that. What differnce does it make what country the genocide ethnic cleansing took place in? I mean 2000 people hack up 1,200 people with machetes but it shouldn;t matter because they weren't americans? It doesn;t matter that Obama campaigned for this guy? that he hung out with these people prior to them going on a mass killing spree?
It is disturbing to me that a Mccain supporter tried to run someone off the road, it is disturbing to me that a McCain supporter hurt herself and tried to blame an Obama supporter, it is disturbing to me that an Obama supporter shot up a Mccain supporters houes, It is disturbing to me that Obama supporters in Keyna hacked up 1,200 people .. all of this IS DISTURBING. I do not think that we should try to act like none of this exists, nor should we take any of this any less serious. This says alot about our world, and these campaigns. I do not make light of any of this on either side, but some are too blinded by party affiliation to see all of this for what it is.
I am not the one spewing hate here, if you can act like the deaths of 1,200 people over Obamas cousin not being elected is nothing to be concerned about, you have serious issues. I do not think that EITHER candidate is responsible for the actions of OTHERS. But we have to get some kind of order here, where do we draw the line at behaving like psychos? attacking a mentally ill girl? supporting a mass slaughter in Kenya? supporting people running around screaming Obama is a terrosrist? I have seen John McCain stand up and get boo'd at his own rally defending Obama against these attacks calling him a decent man, why is it I can't find any video of Obama stepping up and calling McCain a decent man? He only put his life on the line for this country, but does not even deserve that respect.
Our country has a serious issue with respect, from both sides I have heard attacks on both candidates that were crazy. If you wish to debate real issues, the character and background of each of the candidates , their plans for our country, that is fine. But slandering them needlessly .. that is uncalled for. Yes, McCain was involved with the keaten 5 , Yes Obama went to school in Indonesia, Yes McCain hugged Bush, yes Obama is related to bush. All of these things are facts, there is no need for name calling.
Comments
Let me ask you this - why did she say that it was a black man who robbed her? If you think about the answer, you will realize what her true intentions were in this whole mess.
If you are going to start blaming candidates for inciting this kind of behavior you would have to start by putting blame here:
After Obama got everyone riled up for change in Kenya, by endorsing his cousin and then his cousin lost the election, an angry mob of 2000 of his supporters went on a mass killing spree killing over a thousand people, hacking them to death with machetes.
Barack Obama and Raila Odinga -- Did the Illinois senator violate the Logan Act in campaigning for his "ethnic cleansing" cousin's bid for the Kenyan presidency?
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
So is his fault these people went crazy after he got them riled up? Should he be held accountable for this genocide by endorsing this parties leader?
Yes her true intentions were that she thought in her own demented reality that she was going to beat herself up blame a "black Obama supporter" and incite more racism and anger against Obama and gain her some twisted sort of "fame". All a very obvious serious mental health issue. she should be considered a danger to herself and others and be forced to get mental help immediately.
If McCain is to be blamed for this crazy womans actions, should Obama not be blamed for this?
www3.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/12/obamas-kenya-ghosts/
HYMAN: Obama's Kenya ghosts
COMMENTARY:
About 50 parishioners were locked into the Assemblies of God church before it was set ablaze. They were mostly women and children. Those who tried to flee were hacked to death by machete-wielding members of a mob numbering 2,000.
The 2008 New Year Day atrocity in the Kenyan village Eldoret, about 185 miles northwest of Nairobi, had all the markings of the Rwanda genocide of a decade earlier.
By mid-February 2008, more than 1,500 Kenyans were killed. Many were slain by machete-armed attackers. More than 500,000 were displaced by the religious strife. Villages lay in ruin. Many of the atrocities were perpetrated by Muslims against Christians.
The violence was led by supporters of Raila Odinga, the opposition leader who lost the Dec. 27, 2007, presidential election by more than 230,000 votes. Odinga supporters began the genocide hours after the final election results were announced Dec. 30. Mr. Odinga was a member of Parliament representing an area in western Kenya, heavily populated by the Luo tribe, and the birthplace of Barack Obama's father.
Mr. Odinga had the backing of Kenya's Muslim community heading into the election. For months he denied any ties to Muslim leaders, but fell silent when Sheik Abdullahi Abdi, chairman of the National Muslim Leaders Forum, appeared on Kenya television displaying a memorandum of understanding signed on Aug. 29, 2007, by Mr. Odinga and the Muslim leader. Mr. Odinga then denied his denials.
The details of the MOU were shocking. In return for Muslim backing, Mr. Odinga promised to impose a number of measures favored by Muslims if he were elected president. Among these were recognition of "Islam as the only true religion," Islamic leaders would have an "oversight role to monitor activities of ALL other religions [emphasis in original]," installation of Shariah courts in every jurisdiction, a ban on Christian preaching, replacement of the police commissioner who "allowed himself to be used by heathens and Zionists," adoption of a women's dress code, and bans on alcohol and pork.
This was not Mr. Odinga's first brush with notoriety. Like his father, Jaramogi Oginga Odinga, the main opposition leader in the 1960s and 1970s, Raila Odinga is a Marxist He graduated from East Germany's Magdeburg University in 1970 on a scholarship provided by the East German government. He named his oldest son after Fidel Castro.
Raila Odinga was implicated in the bloody coup attempt in 1982 against then-President Daniel Arap Moi, a close ally of the United States. Kenya has been one of the most stable democracies in Africa since the 1960s. The ethnic cleansing earlier this year was the worst violence in Kenya since that 1982 coup attempt.
Mr. Odinga spent eight years in prison. At the time, he denied guilt but later detailed he was a coup leader in his 2006 biography. Statue of limitations precluded further prosecution when the biography appeared.
Initially, Mr. Odinga was not the favored opposition candidate to stand in the 2007 election against President Mwai Kibaki, who was seeking his second term. However, he received a tremendous boost when Sen. Barack Obama arrived in Kenya in August 2006 to campaign on his behalf. Mr. Obama denies that supporting Mr. Odinga was the intention of his trip, but his actions and local media reports tell otherwise.
Mr. Odinga and Mr. Obama were nearly inseparable throughout Mr. Obama's six-day stay. The two traveled together throughout Kenya and Mr. Obama spoke on behalf of Mr. Odinga at numerous rallies. In contrast, Mr. Obama had only criticism for Kibaki. He lashed out against the Kenyan government shortly after meeting with the president on Aug. 25. "The [Kenyan] people have to suffer over corruption perpetrated by government officials," Mr. Obama announced.
"Kenyans are now yearning for change," he declared. The intent of Mr. Obama's remarks and actions was transparent to Kenyans - he was firmly behind Mr. Odinga.
Mr. Odinga and Mr. Obama had met several times before the 2006 trip. Reports indicate Mr. Odinga visited Mr. Obama during trips to the U.S. in 2004, 2005 and 2006. Mr. Obama sent his foreign policy adviser Mark Lippert to Kenya in early 2006 to coordinate his summer visit. Mr. Obama's August trip coincided with strategizing by Orange Democratic Movement leaders to defeat Mr. Kibaki in the upcoming elections. Mr. Odinga represented the ODM ticket in the presidential race.
Mr. Odinga and Mr. Obama's father were both from the Luo community, the second-largest tribe in Kenya, but their ties run much deeper. Mr. Odinga told a stunned BBC Radio interviewer the reason why he and Mr. Obama were staying in near daily telephone contact was because they were cousins. In a Jan. 8, 2008, interview, Mr. Odinga said Mr. Obama had called him twice the day before while campaigning in the New Hampshire primary before adding, "Barack Obama's father is my maternal uncle."
President Kibaki requested a meeting of all opposition leaders in early January in an effort to quell the violence. All agreed to attend except Mr. Odinga. A month later, Mr. Kibaki offered Mr. Odinga the role of prime minister, the de facto No. 2 in the Kenyan government, in return for an end to the attacks. Mr. Odinga was sworn in on April 17, 2008.
Mr. Obama's judgment is seriously called into question when he backs an official with troubling ties to Muslim extremists and whose supporters practice ethnic cleansing and genocide. It was Islamic extremists in Kenya who bombed the U.S. Embassy in 1998, killing more than 200 and injuring thousands. None of this has dissuaded Mr. Obama from maintaining disturbing loyalties.
Obama concedes mistake over Muslim outreach meeting
http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/09/1525564.aspx
The Obama campaign?s Muslim outreach director participated in a meeting in mid September that was attended by several controversial Muslim activists, NBC News has learned. The Obama campaign now concedes that was a misjudgment, and that its top Muslim staffer would not have attended the meeting if she had known the full participant list beforehand.
?Would a campaign staffer have attended if they were aware of the complete list of attendees? No,? said Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt in an email statement to NBC.
The Muslim outreach meeting
On September 15, newly named Muslim outreach director Minha Husaini spoke to a small group of Muslim leaders and potential Obama supporters at a hotel in Springfield, Virginia, several meeting participants and the campaign said. Two other Obama-affiliated Democratic Party workers joined Husaini and also spoke to the crowd. Some Virginia and Washington, D.C.-based Muslim activists and interested citizens attended, and flyers were passed out from ?Arab Americans for Obama? stating Sen. Obama?s goals for achieving peace in the Middle East, protecting the civil liberties of Arab Americans and ending the war in Iraq.
Several participants told NBC News that Husaini and other speakers delivered a standard Obama campaign pitch. ?They said, ?We?re here to get the concerns of Muslim voters and let everyone know that the Obama campaign does want the support of the Muslim community,? ? recalled one participant, who requested anonymity. The meeting was not advertised and some attendees got text phone messages notifying them that day of the meeting?s location, the participant said.
Nearly a month later, the meeting is drawing controversy--and not because of anything said at the meeting itself.
The attendees
One meeting attendee was Mahdi Bray of the Muslim American Society, several of the participants said. The MAS website describes Bray as an imam and ?long time civil and human rights activist.? Bray?s critics say he has a history of defending terrorists. They point to a video of Bray at a rally in 2000, for example, in which he can be seen pumping his fist in the air in support of the terrorist groups Hamas and Hezbollah. In a 2004 interview, he called the Israeli assassination of a Hamas spiritual leader an ?unlawful, cowardly and dangerous act of state-sponsored terrorism.? Bray did not return a call requesting comment.
Also attending the meeting was Nihad Awad, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations. CAIR is a Muslim-American civil rights group that has, as its website states, ?consistently and persistently condemned terrorism and the killing of innocent civilians.? Nonetheless, the group has many critics, especially in law-enforcement circles, and is an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation terrorism financing case.
In an interview on Thursday, CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper said that the group has filed a legal brief seeking to have its name removed from the list of unindicted co-conspirators in the federal terror case. ?Obviously we see it as politically motivated and a cheap way to stigmatize? CAIR and other Muslim groups, Hooper said.
Hooper said that CAIR has consistently condemned ?every act of terrorism? by groups including Hamas and Hezbollah. But he would not answer whether CAIR condemns those designated terrorist groups themselves. ?I?ve already answered your questions,? he said, and abruptly ended the interview. Nihad Awad, the executive director, did not return a call seeking comment.
"Political liability"
A second meeting participant speaking on condition on anonymity said he was stunned to learn that Awad and Bray had been invited to an event where Obama representatives would be present. The participant said Awad and Bray are considered politically ?radioactive.? He said that some in the Obama group knew ahead of time that top CAIR officials would be in attendance--an allegation the Obama campaign disputes.
?Yes, when I knew they were coming it made me uncomfortable,? the attendee said. ?There was some hope it wouldn?t get out? into the media, the attendee added. ?There was some concern within the Obama camp that some of these people coming may be a political liability.?
Chicago-based lawyer Mazen Asbahi also attended the meeting. He is the Obama campaign?s former Muslim outreach coordinator, who abruptly resigned in August after the Wall Street Journal and websites that track fundamentalist Islam began questioning Asbahi?s involvement in an Islamic investment fund and various Islamic groups. When reached by NBC News, Asbahi would not comment about the September gathering or his brief stint eight years ago on an investment fund board which also included a fundamentalist imam.
When informed that Asbahi had attended the recent meeting, an Obama spokesman said: ?Mazen Asbahi resigned from his role as the campaign?s Muslim American outreach coordinator and was replaced--he is not an employee of the campaign and does not speak on behalf of the campaign.?
The Obama campaign has been delicately trying to court Muslim American voters in key battleground states while simultaneously knocking down Internet rumors that attempt to link the presidential candidate to radical Islam. Sen. Obama is a Christian.
Obama campaign reaction
The Obama campaign would not allow NBC News to interview its Muslim outreach director, Minha Husaini. It issued a statement explaining that she was not a meeting organizer. ?Our campaign has an interfaith outreach organization that is equipping people of faith with the tools they need to educate their friends and family members about Senator Obama?s plans to bring the change we need,? the statement said. ?This meeting was not organized by the campaign--our outreach staff attends many meetings in the course of each day, and they accepted an invitation from community leaders to attend.?
deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/09/1525564.aspx
Regardless of what she is that doesn't give any weight to this issue.
ok, so one conservative thinks it was a fake before the story was fully realized. and that makes you master of the universe? puh-leeeeez.
It means that jumping to conclusions before you have even a smattering of a notion of the facts makes you look foolish.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Devil, don't bother...siobabble will use a big word to try and make your story false. Truth means nothing to them.
I'm reminded of a scripture... Don't cast your pearls before swine.
let's just talk about the girl that faked being beat up. that way it fits our liberal talking point better.
by the way, used to live in big D, just moved a few hours north a couple months ago. Lived in both Irving and Lewisville...good times.
Are those Tina Fey glasses?
Regardless of what she is that doesn't give any weight to this issue.
ok, so one conservative thinks it was a fake before the story was fully realized. and that makes you master of the universe? puh-leeeeez.
It means that jumping to conclusions before you have even a smattering of a notion of the facts makes you look foolish.
read your own damn foolish sentence. WHO declared it a false story before the facts were in? me? it was you. again, you just got lucky on THIS story. it doesn't make your spewage any less fowl.
I
deep ellum down here 
! if I wasn't resting a hurt ankle tonight that is where I would be lol!
I
deep ellum down here 
! if I wasn't resting a hurt ankle tonight that is where I would be lol!
never went there..lol. Verizon kept me tethered to a cubicle until my eyes fell out :P
The girl that faked this beating should be made an example of for others to think twice about trying to fake anything.
On the other hand... news about Joe the Plumber...
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/24/joe.html?sid=101
quote
"State and local officials are investigating if state and law-enforcement computer systems were illegally accessed when they were tapped for personal information about "Joe the Plumber."
Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher became part of the national political lexicon Oct. 15 when Republican presidential candidate John McCain mentioned him frequently during his final debate with Democrat Barack Obama.
The 34-year-old from the Toledo suburb of Holland is held out by McCain as an example of an American who would be harmed by Obama's tax proposals.
Public records requested by The Dispatch disclose that information on Wurzelbacher's driver's license or his sport-utility vehicle was pulled from the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles database three times shortly after the debate.
Information on Wurzelbacher was accessed by accounts assigned to the office of Ohio Attorney General Nancy H. Rogers, the Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency and the Toledo Police Department.
It has not been determined who checked on Wurzelbacher, or why. Direct access to driver's license and vehicle registration information from BMV computers is restricted to legitimate law enforcement and government business.
Paul Lindsay, Ohio spokesman for the McCain campaign, attempted to portray the inquiries as politically motivated. "It's outrageous to see how quickly Barack Obama's allies would abuse government power in an attempt to smear a private citizen who dared to ask a legitimate question," he said.
end quote..
Should this story be any less news?
One is a girl acting the nut case, this one is about people trying to destroy a person who is politically opposed to them. Yet they get the same weight by MSM. oh wait...no...this story won't be in the NYT. They wanted 2 front page stories about Palin's wardrobe instead.
I think that if the situation was reversed, and a black woman had said that a white McCain supporter had attacked her, you wouldn't be so easy on the woman. Judging by your past comments Faxxer, you would say something along the lines of "This is what all libs do, they lie." It would be a conspiracy. But since she is a McCain supporter, she is just mentally ill and had no real motivations.
She had an agenda and she was busted. I'll tell you one thing, if I was a black man I would be so offended by this. The woman is obviously racist as well, why couldn't it have been a white Obama supporter, or a Latino? No it was a black man, because all black men are robbers and criminals right? I really, really am starting to think that a lot of you Conservatives from the southern states are just racist and don't want a black man to run your country. And I'm not the only "Lib" that thinks this way, trust me on that.
I think that if the situation was reversed, and a black woman had said that a white McCain supporter had attacked her, you wouldn't be so easy on the woman. Judging by your past comments Faxxer, you would say something along the lines of "This is what all libs do, they lie." It would be a conspiracy. But since she is a McCain supporter, she is just mentally ill and had no real motivations.
She had an agenda and she was busted. I'll tell you one thing, if I was a black man I would be so offended by this. The woman is obviously racist as well, why couldn't it have been a white Obama supporter, or a Latino? No it was a black man, because all black men are robbers and criminals right? I really, really am starting to think that a lot of you Conservatives from the southern states are just racist and don't want a black man to run your country. And I'm not the only "Lib" that thinks this way, trust me on that.
I would have been just as supportive, though if the case had been exposed as a fraud you would have jessejackson and everyone else screaming we were attacking her credibility because she was black. That would be the only difference here.
I'm sure that you personally would have devil, but not some of your fellow Republicans.
And yea, Jesse Jackson would have had an aneurysm if this had happened the other way around.
I'm sure that you personally would have devil, but not some of your fellow Republicans.
And yea, Jesse Jackson would have had an aneurysm if this had happened the other way around.
I am not a republican, but am being forced to vote for one this year due to Obamas plans, I have no other choice.
Obamas plans downright scare me ! If Dems had given me Marcy Kaptur I would have voted for her all the way!
Do you have any idea the costs to the Tax payers already to pay for the FEHB? Healthcare is already higher than our defense budget just to cover what it does now, you add the rest of the 300,000,000 people in this country and what are the costs of that now? In order for it to be $1,500 per person The government picks up the rest of the tab ... You have to take into consideration the total amount to emplyer and employee spent on coverage, unless you bring the core costs of healthcare down there is no way the government could ever afford to do that, that is why there is a need for employers as it is to foot part of the bill. In order to pay for this plan the Tax payers would have to Pay alot more, all across the board. SO our actual costs would be more not less per person for the coverage than $1,500 per person.
The plans are not provided just from the government, they contract this out to other companies.. which cover much more than just the government.
PS> bringing the core costs of healthcare down also results in bringing the quality down. You get what you pay for.
Congratulations, you win a cookie. Thank you for playing "Who am I". By the way, do you know how much money the war in Iraq costs? Do you know how much money the bailout costs? Do you know how much wealth we shift from the American taxpayers to the countries of Israel, Columbia, Peru, and a whole host of poorer countries around the world, such as those in Africa? Welfare for Americans is evil, welfare for the rest of the world is okay? You must be a neo-conservative ditto head. Cost of healthcare for every American is too high, cost of healthcare for every African, Asian, and South and Central American can never be high enough. Socialism in America is evil, so we should just stick to socialism for those outside America.
Bush/McCain don't want American subsidized health care for Americans, they want American subsidized health care for every other poor person outside America. World Socialism, just not in America. The Bush/McCain mantra is, "Who said money can't buy you love?" For all the money we send to Iraq and Pakistan, they really love us, don't they?
Now try to think outside the box of Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Fox News, and join the real world.
The neo con ditto head arguement is that "BIG GOVERNMENT" will chose your health care. In FEHB "BIG GOVERNMENT" lets people choose from about 350 plans and coverages. Neo-con ditto head arguement fails to hold up.
The neo con ditto head arguement is that "BIG GOVERNMENT" is inefficient, will mismanage healthcare, and drive the costs up. In FEHB "BIG GOVERNMENT" has over 60 years of experience in managing health care, has among the best coverages in the nation, and has among the most competitive costs in the nation. They do that by risk sharing, pooling 9 milliion people. Neo-con ditto head arguement fails to hold up.
Neo con ditto head arguement is that "You don't want BIG GOVERNMENT deciding when you will, or will not, receive health care". Under FEHB the individual chooses when they go to the doctor, and what health care they receive. BIG GOVERNMENT only guarantees coverage, and monitors the performance of the health care insurance provider. Neo con ditto head arguement fails to hold up.
Now let's turn to your neo con ditto head arguement regarding cost. Let's take a national insurer, BCBS as an example. We'll use 2009 rates right off the FEHB website.
There is a choice of BCBS Standard, or Basic. The government share of BCBS Standard, which, if you check the website coverage, would be what a family would choose (BCBS Basic is more aimed at younger, healthy, single people, and costs less), is $9,152 per year. With a typical family of 4, that is $2,288/person per year. Let's assume for discussion perposes that all 300,000,000 of the population of the United States is comprised of a family of four and chooses BCBS Standard. That's 75,000,000 family units of four times $9,152, or $700 billion per year. In 2007 health care spending in the United States reached $2.3 trillion. Thus, providing health care under a FEHB program is approximately 33% of the annual spending, plus some additional percent for individual out of pocket costs, and would cover most major health care costs. Thus, though the dollars appear big, a FEHB type program would actually decrease America's annual health care costs, and provide coverage for all the taxpayers. Unless, of course, you believe that FEHB BCBS is substandard and doesn't cover most health care costs. In that case, there is no hope for you.
Without a government sponsored health care plan we spend 4.3 times the national defense budget on health care, approximately 16% of gross domestic product. This cost is already paid by employers that provide health care, and by individuals out of their own pocket. It is not about cost increases, it is about cost shifting to provide coverage and to take advantage of the economies of scale. Neo-con ditto head arguement fails to hold up.
Who pays, you ask? As a Democrat I would say that both the individual does, and the corporations do, through a measured tax increase. Well, a ditto head neo conservative would just say "borrow it". After all, Democrats tax and spend, which is evil, Republicans borrow and spend, which is good. The fact of the matter is, you can't have something for nothing. There are no free rides, everyone pays one way or another. Unless you've figured out a way to currently get health care for free.
So, who pays currently? Corporations and individuals. By shifting this additional cost from business to the government, business becomes more price competitive against foreign governments that provide national healthcare. The alternative is that business will continue to eliminate health care for employees to become price competitive, and Americans will not have health care. Don't think business will continue to see their market errode due to price, and say "That's okay, we understand, we're providing employee health care". You have already seen the defined benefit pension plan and defined contribution pension plan go away in favor of each individual having the "choice" of the IRA/401K. General Motors just announced, no matching for employees, eliminated. So, tell me, how is your retirement plan doing now? You happy with your investment results?
But of course, you're self employed, you don't care about employer paid health care, do you? The neo-con ditto head response is, "That's not fair, that guy over there has employer provided health care, you don't. We have to make it fair and take that benefit away from him." To which you bob your head up and down, and say, "Yes, make it fair, take it away from him", rather then, "Go fuck yourself, I want to be pooled in a group policy, rather than an individual policy." They sell you on the idea of business eliminating your health care by telling you that now you get to make your own "choice". The 350 plans of FEHB just aren't enough "choice" for you, are they?
General Motors has already ELIMINATED retiree health care, shifting it to the federal government anyway. Corporate America is already SLASHING health care to compete. Your scenario just creates more uninsured and underinsured people that cannot afford health sevrices.
Hell of a trade off. But at least the people will have "choice", and "Big Government" out of health care.
Unlike the other day, when you wanted to talk about the girl that got beat up, because it fit your neo-con talking point better.
Originally posted by olddaddy
Congratulations, you win a cookie. Thank you for playing "Who am I". By the way, do you know how much money the war in Iraq costs? Do you know how much money the bailout costs? Do you know how much wealth we shift from the American taxpayers to the countries of Israel, Columbia, Peru, and a whole host of poorer countries around the world, such as those in Africa? Welfare for Americans is evil, welfare for the rest of the world is okay? You must be a neo-conservative ditto head. Cost of healthcare for every American is too high, cost of healthcare for every African, Asian, and South and Central American can never be high enough. Socialism in America is evil, so we should just stick to socialism for those outside America.
( and a whole lot more)
First off There is not a whole lot we can do about being at war, in fact it will gte worse no matter who becomes president. We cannot take a big eraser and make it all go away.. We cannot change what is already set into motion and Obama has never had any intention of stopping any war. he didn't even want to pull troops out of Iraq until it became unpopular for him to oppose it. He lies about alot of things and the war has been a big one.
Obama said he never wanted to pull troops out of iraq, and didn;t want a timeline to remove them:
www.youtube.com/watch
Biden says :
Mark my words," the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. "It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."
"I've forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know, so I'm not being falsely humble with you. I think I can be value added, but this guy has it," the Senate Foreign Relations chairman said of Obama. "This guy has it. But he's gonna need your help. Because I promise you, you all are gonna be sitting here a year from now going, 'Oh my God, why are they there in the polls? Why is the polling so down? Why is this thing so tough?' We're gonna have to make some incredibly tough decisions in the first two years. So I'm asking you now, I'm asking you now, be prepared to stick with us. Remember the faith you had at this point because you're going to have to reinforce us."
"There are gonna be a lot of you who want to go, 'Whoa, wait a minute, yo, whoa, whoa, I don't know about that decision'," Biden continued. "Because if you think the decision is sound when they're made, which I believe you will when they're made, they're not likely to be as popular as they are sound. Because if they're popular, they're probably not sound."
I opposed sending of ground troops into Iraq, because I knew that if we went in there there was no way we could ever fully pull out. Why? because we just wiped out the defenses to the country which holds the Biblical site of Armegeddon. If we leave it defensless every religious fanatic out there will go to where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers meet and try to start it. All of the surrounding areas are EXTREMELY hostile, and the only reason they stayed out before was because everyone was terrified of saddam. Without us there to be Iraq's defense the entire area will errupt in the largest Holy war this planet has ever seen.
If Nato had allowed both Georgia and the Ukraine into Nato, Russia would have cut off oil supply to Europe and would try to bully them into submission. So no, Us went into georgia instead. Why does Russia want georgia , The ukraine, and Poland defenseless? Russia wants total control over European oil and natural gas, Georgia has the oil lines ruiing into Eurpoe from the middle east. Ukraine has the only russian oil lines running into Germany, and Poland is their staging point for attack if they are going to attack Europe.
Stabilizing Iraq and Kuwait solidifies middle eastern oil supply for Europe, so that if they were to strong arm Russia, Russia does not control their oil any longer. Most people do not understand the full scope of what is actually going on here. Even when we reduce our numbers in Iraq we will not be able to give Afgahnistan our full attention because we have Isreal over here wanting to take out Iran before Iran takes them out, and I think this will happen before anything else.
So how can we at this time cut our military budget? We cannot and will not be able to for a long time without putting ourselves at risk. We are at war, we just have to accept that , denying it doesn't make it go away, or make people not want to "wipe us from the face of the earth". You know it is funny most Americans think we are the only one at war here, we have all of our allies at war right now on many different fronts. There is alot more to the "war on terror" than killing Osama Bin Laden, even when we kill him the war will be far from over. Sometimes things aren't so cut and dry, and in war they never are.
AS it is the world cries out that we do not do enough to provide for the poor nations , even though in total dollar amount we give more than just about anyone, but our per person ratio is far less than other nations and that is why they complain. Yes I do think we need to take care of our own first, but we simply will not have the money to cover these plans at least not until the unrests in the middle east is quited and Europe is secure and free from
Russian oil. Why can't we reduce our military budget right now?:
Oil in Iraq www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/irqindx.htm
Europe identifies Iraq as major gas supplier www.ameinfo.com/161148.html
Israel Waging 'Secret War With Iran' www.nysun.com/foreign/israel-waging-secret-war-with-iran/85831/
Israel, Iran, and the US: Nuclear War, Here We Come www.antiwar.com/orig/hirsch.php
Britain spied on UN allies over war vote www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2004/feb/08/iraq.iraq
Russia Jets Bomb Georgia Oil Pipeline www.nysun.com/foreign/russia-jets-bomb-georgia-oil-pipeline/83547/
UKRAINE MOVING TO REDUCE RUSSIAN MONOPOLY ON OIL MARKET www.jamestown.org/edm/article.php
US adviser warns of Armageddon www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/aug/16/iraq.richardnortontaylor
SLIPPING TOWARD ARMAGEDDON: Israel in Iraq By Mark Gaffney www.williambowles.info/isrl-pal/israel_in_iraq.html
ARMAGEDDON: Finally Unearthed? www.bbsradio.com/cgi-bin/webbbs/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/5077
Al Qaeda Organization for Holy War in Iraq www.adl.org/terrorism/symbols/al_qaeda_iraq.asp
(Jama'at al-Tawhid Wa al-Jihad)
How NATO Chose to Fail in Afghanistan www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1565691,00.html
US to take over Afghan mission www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article4547629.ece
Because there is simply too much BS going on right now for us to reduce military spending .. and yes i do too much reading
...and to think, Barney Frank wants to cut military spending by 25% when "democrats have control" ...beyond belief.
We should be increasing military budget by 25%
McCain is not a racist. You do realize this is his daughter and the reason no one hears about her is that she was attacked by the press eyars ago and he has tried to protect her from being attacked this go around?
In reference to Olddaddy's FEHB health care post (thanks for that)...
I remember when I was under my mother's FEHB BCBS coverage, they took care of business. When at 16 I developed sciatica pains, they covered MRIs at Johns Hopkins to discover the possibly congenital slippage of a vertebrae and disc and treatment as needed -- good times. At 21 when I came out from under that umbrella I probably missed some opportunity to maintain (and start paying independently for) that BCBS -- I instead went uncovered for perhaps a year before being getting involved with another provider.
It turns out the only way any private insurance company was going to cover me was if I signed off on a rider, a waiver, that released them from any responsibility regarding treatment of what boils down to 'back related injuries'. Sure, it's more technical than that, and some companies even provide clauses that allow the rider to be dropped if said condition is not shown to be an issue for say 5, or 10 years. The practical result is that the one thing I need semi-regular treatment and care for is the one thing no private insurer will ever pay for because it's not profitable for them to do so -- Nine years later I still cannot afford imaging or physical therapy on my own so it goes essentially untreated.
I have to say that the possibility of not being shrugged off anymore because of 'pre-existing conditions' is what seals the deal for me regarding the health care plans on the table. I feel that the FEHB program would be a breath of fresh air for so many people, and the choice of treatment for conditions that need treatment instead of treatment for conditions that are profitable is, in my opinion, a no brainer.
*warning changing gears*
Wait a sec - what is this thread about? Oh yeah, that girl that lied, a lot, over and over. You know, you have to try and love people for who they are and try not to hate them for what they do, but that's no reason to tolerate this sort of behavior. I would have to dig up the reference, but I believe I read that she told the 'story' to a friend first, and taking this to the police involved some level of encouragement from her peers. She reminds me of an estranged friend I know from gaming and this sounds like her 'story' might not have ever been intended for major media -- it sounds like she was just seeking attention from her peers. Through six years of MMO gaming I have made friends around the world and from all walks of life -- we met on common ground to share good times and that allowed us to transcend nearly all of our differences in opinion, ideology, politics, you name it. As it happends, at least one of my MMO friends is a compulsive liar.
Mostly this manifested in the form of grandiose tales of high adventure within game, but when we moved onto Teamspeak it became clear that the problem was deeper. Still, as a group of friends we collectively tolerated the absurd tales that would, if we were to believe them, make our one particular friend out to be some sort of James-Bond-by-happenstance one day, and witness to a series of preposterous events the next, and so on. To say that this 'fictional posturing for attention' was inflated even more when a female guild-mate was around would be an understatement. I just wonder if this didn't all start with a 'small lie' to her friends before her need to protect that lie inflated it into a national mini-scandal.
Anyways, sorry for the rants.
Why? For what?
We're already wasting billions, and I'm not even talking about the utterly illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq, which costs us not only treasure, but blood.
If I were President, I'd kill SDI immediately. It's a total boondoggle with no military use whatsoever.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Regardless of what she is that doesn't give any weight to this issue.
ok, so one conservative thinks it was a fake before the story was fully realized. and that makes you master of the universe? puh-leeeeez.
It means that jumping to conclusions before you have even a smattering of a notion of the facts makes you look foolish.
read your own damn foolish sentence. WHO declared it a false story before the facts were in? me? it was you. again, you just got lucky on THIS story. it doesn't make your spewage any less fowl.
Faxxer, you're projecting. AGAIN.
I was advising not jumping to a conclusion. As noted communist Michelle Malkin was. Meanwhile, Hugh Hewitt was like you, jumping up and down with joy at race baiting.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Frankly, I really don't give two shits what Obama says. He's just as much an idiot as McCain.
American troops are no longer welcome in Iraq. There is an former American Colonel who was Chief of Staff to Petreas, and who is now a professor at (gag) THE Ohio State University, who has written a book about the Iraq War. He commanded the first amoured brigade when we first went in.
He states that Americans were welcomed as liberators for about the first 30 days, then Iraqis started wondering where was the electricity, where was the water, when was America going to help. Rumsfeld and Wolkowicz, the gang that couldn't think straight, fell down on the job, and very quickly the Iraqi's started seeing us not as the solution, but as part of the problem.
A commission, headed up by former Reagan Chief of Staff and Cabinet Secretary James Baker, who I consider a respected, well educated, articulate, and intelligent man, made a recommendation to bring Iraq's neighbors into the peace process. As a Western culture we are not seen in the same light as Islamic Arab peace keeping forces from places such as Jordan, Egypt, or the Gulf States. We need to bring them into the process and begin replacing American military forces with Arab peace keeping forces. We need to concentrate our efforts on reaching diplomatic consensus with the various factions within the Iraqi government and let Arab peace keeping forces maintain the peace, train the Iraqi Army and Security forces.
Further US military presence in Iraq is detrimental to the diplomatic process. However, peace in Iraq remains to fragile to allow them to be completely on their own at this time.
We have overstayed our welcome militarily, it is past time that we go. Now that the surge has stabilized the country we must execute an orderly rotation with Arab peacekeeping forces. It is a necessary step along the path to achieve political stability within Iraq.
I have heard his daughter talk about her "dad" there is alot of love in that family, and not just from her mother. It was McCains Idea to protect her from this campaign, and for good reason, NO she was attacked by his opponents, not his supporters. People like you that want to make slanderous attacks on a man that you know nothing about. Are you responsible for anything your ancestors did? SHould we be held accountable for things we did not do ourselves? McCain never took part in any of that and it is ignorant to blame him for things he did not do.
IF you want to talk about relatives here, why not talk about Obamas cousin, which he supported in Keyna and campaigned for in kenya, than after getting his supporters riled up for "change" they changed things allright, 2000 of his supporters went on a mass ethnic cleansing killing spree hacking 1,200 people to death with machetes. Oh yea and this was only what LAST YEAR?? not back in the days of SLavery, no this IS NOW> You need to get your facts straight before making hateful outlandish comments about Blaimng people for other peoples actions. What type of people take machetes and start killing all of their neighbors? Oh yea Kenyas Obama supporters!
There were more attacks on his daughter than just the republicans, they came FROM Both sides. I have seen countless attacks on her from the Liberal forums as well. This time by Obama supporters. I have seen these attacks myself, so trying to tell me that they don;t exist doesn't make them go away. you mention one set of people, but in fact there are many. AND NO IT WASN"T ME that said he was an arab, tyvm. I haven't called him anything. I think that is disgusting to insult people like that. What differnce does it make what country the genocide ethnic cleansing took place in? I mean 2000 people hack up 1,200 people with machetes but it shouldn;t matter because they weren't americans? It doesn;t matter that Obama campaigned for this guy? that he hung out with these people prior to them going on a mass killing spree?
It is disturbing to me that a Mccain supporter tried to run someone off the road, it is disturbing to me that a McCain supporter hurt herself and tried to blame an Obama supporter, it is disturbing to me that an Obama supporter shot up a Mccain supporters houes, It is disturbing to me that Obama supporters in Keyna hacked up 1,200 people .. all of this IS DISTURBING. I do not think that we should try to act like none of this exists, nor should we take any of this any less serious. This says alot about our world, and these campaigns. I do not make light of any of this on either side, but some are too blinded by party affiliation to see all of this for what it is.
I am not the one spewing hate here, if you can act like the deaths of 1,200 people over Obamas cousin not being elected is nothing to be concerned about, you have serious issues. I do not think that EITHER candidate is responsible for the actions of OTHERS. But we have to get some kind of order here, where do we draw the line at behaving like psychos? attacking a mentally ill girl? supporting a mass slaughter in Kenya? supporting people running around screaming Obama is a terrosrist? I have seen John McCain stand up and get boo'd at his own rally defending Obama against these attacks calling him a decent man, why is it I can't find any video of Obama stepping up and calling McCain a decent man? He only put his life on the line for this country, but does not even deserve that respect.
Our country has a serious issue with respect, from both sides I have heard attacks on both candidates that were crazy. If you wish to debate real issues, the character and background of each of the candidates , their plans for our country, that is fine. But slandering them needlessly .. that is uncalled for. Yes, McCain was involved with the keaten 5 , Yes Obama went to school in Indonesia, Yes McCain hugged Bush, yes Obama is related to bush. All of these things are facts, there is no need for name calling.