Unfortunately you were confined to a very small part of the game, and if that was fine for you, great.
I however wanted to see the game in its entirety, have some of that crazy nice raid gear, and get my epic weapon. I can also tell you didnt play on one of the PVP servers like I did, so you werent nearly as dependant on the help of others.
you missed the point of the post ...... VIDEO GAMES are about haveing fun, not everybody finds fun in grouping. MMORPG or not, its still a game.
So let me ask you this, if all you did was solo, then why play an MMO? Why not a single player RPG?
because, there wasnt any everquest Single player games out, and it was still nice to be around other people and to talk with them through shout or some other general chat. Soloing doesnt mean you dont socialize with anybody at all.....
today i solo all the time in Lineage 2, i even solo when i pvp with others outside dion (a city) or in the arena, i have quite a few friends in L2 and i can make more alot easier. I choose not to, because to make friends in a pvp game means you make enemies as well.
Ofc later i will group up for pvp and end game, like i sometimes do in WoW. I solo when i level, i group up when i do mass pvp (castle sieges and etc)
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
So let me ask you this, if all you did was solo, then why play an MMO? Why not a single player RPG?
Single player RPG's are pathetically easy to hack when you get stuck. Almost all of them use game save files that are easy to disassemble with a Hex editor & don't use checksums.
Yes I know that cheating in single player games is pretty sad, but its usually so easy it is a constant source of temptation. At least with MMOs your character file is stored on a secure server.
To be serious though, even if you spend most of your time soloing, MMOs are still better because you get to talk to other people & make friends even if you don't group with them that often.
MMOs are all about socialising & that doesn't always have to mean killing things together.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
Im also looking forward to seeing a certain mmo (Darkfall, provided it delivers) because its going to be very anti-solo. If its one thing we learned on the EQ pvp servers, its that going out alone = death. FFA and full loot, well you wont see many solo people surviving alone, theyll be slamming the cancel subscription button faster than you can say WoW.
you would think that would hurt its subscription numbers...... And if it does like i think it will, im sure Adventurine witll churn out as much solo content as they can, or the soloers will disapear into the corners of the unpopulated server while guilds are too busy doin their pvp in the main areas of the world.
EDIT: kinda reminds me of shadowbane ..... and look where that game is now.
I believe there is a certain truth here.
People don't like losing all the time. FFA/Full loot games tend to eat up the solo'ers first, and then the small guilds, and gradually if not corrected it builds up to their being just one big guild that steam rolls over everything. Shadowbane being one example. I will be interesting to see how or if DF is prepared for this. Sure a solo'er could run off to the outback but sooner or later ones gonna want to return to a town to sell/reequipe etc and if your ganked and looted ever time you do it will get old fast.
So let me ask you this, if all you did was solo, then why play an MMO? Why not a single player RPG?
Single player RPG's are pathetically easy to hack when you get stuck. Almost all of them use game save files that are easy to disassemble with a Hex editor & don't use checksums.
Yes I know that cheating in single player games is pretty sad, but its usually so easy it is a constant source of temptation. At least with MMOs your character file is stored on a secure server.
To be serious though, even if you spend most of your time soloing, MMOs are still better because you get to talk to other people & make friends even if you don't group with them that often.
MMOs are all about socialising & that doesn't always have to mean killing things together.
No offense, but go load up a single player game, and run a chat room in front of it, same deal right?
Heres the deal, I got away from single player games and went to MMOs for the social interaction, you cant get social interaction from a single player RPG, but you can bring your solo play style to an MMO?
if 50 percent of a servers population is soloing, its crippling a good portion of the people who need and want groups, look at how bad PQs are in WAR. This is a prime example of everyone soloing then complaining that there arent any groups, well duh, if everyones soloing, then of course there arent any groups.
MMOs are terrible now a days when it comes to social interaction, i dunno if it has to do with the generation of people and the way they develop social lives online as opposed to IRL or what, but it doesnt make much sense to me to have everyone soloing, in games built for people to group in.
Again, its the difference between playing an instrument by yourself, and playing in band, isnt the whole point of learning to play, say the guitar, to eventually play in an enviroment with other people, rather than sitting off to the side playing your own song and leaving the band next to you short a guitarist?
MMORPGs are meant for socialization, grouping is only a feature that helps socialization. Name one game that only has group content and no solo content. No developer or company is going to make a game like that.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
MMORPGs are meant for socialization, grouping is only a feature that helps socialization. Name one game that only has group content and no solo content. No developer or company is going to make a game like that.
Well, my thing is, Id like to see grouping pay off far, and I mean FAR better than soloing, if you solo, it should be penalized so that people prefer to group over soloing.
Thats not an MMO, thats a single player game with a chat room duct taped to it. It misses the whole spirit of cooperation and teamwork.
Sure have your solo content, but make the payoff weak and unappetizing compared to grouping.
Ah now see the thing is though in EQ, soloing provided far less xp, and you had to spend far more time than people who actually grouped up.
You wouldnt ever have had the good gear, the people to come out and rezz you for the xp return, or even people to help you kill off other people so you could get back to your corpse. Thats a huge handicap if you ask me, and thats why soloing wasnt all that popular in EQs prime.
See their are people who like to group, but hate forced grouping. Some people don't want to group with just anyone that sends them a silent invite out of the blue. In EQ I had a guild and a group of friends outside that guild I grouped with. However when i couldn't group with them I generally tried to solo. Why? because solo'ing is IMO much preferable to a bad PUG.
I have a strong dislike for games that FORCE you to group with Leeroy Jenkins, or Little Billy the Chuck Norris joke teller. The whole having to wait 2 hours for a raid to form just to find out the guy who wiped your raid the night before as a joke is coming again to me just isn't fun. Yeah it doesn't happen all the time but in Forced grouping games it does happen and you often times have to wait a long time or take a less then desirable group mate along, ie the druid that is too busy having fun nuking that they don't heal the tank, or the tank that runs ahead leaving the healer behind neither protecting them yet expecting them to keep him healed etc.
Personally I loved DDO (a very group oriented game) but only with a group of friends. (actually exploring the dungeon without walk throughs and cheats, no zerging) the sad part is it didn't have enough content and repeating dungeons just kinda killed it IMO. Some others might complain about the instancing, but silly me I actually liked that when we were in a hidden / secret / lost area that there weren't 3-4 orther groups all gunning for the same mobs or camping some named (immersion breaking IMO)
MMORPGs are meant for socialization, grouping is only a feature that helps socialization. Name one game that only has group content and no solo content. No developer or company is going to make a game like that.
Well, my thing is, Id like to see grouping pay off far, and I mean FAR better than soloing, if you solo, it should be penalized so that people prefer to group over soloing.
Thats not an MMO, thats a single player game with a chat room duct taped to it. It misses the whole spirit of cooperation and teamwork.
Sure have your solo content, but make the payoff weak and unappetizing compared to grouping.
being penalized for playing a game the way you want? Sounds like forced grouping, something that shouldnt and isnt in any MMO i have played or have subscribed to.
And i fail to see how grouping is different from soloing with a chat box. The only difference is your killing stronger monsters with a few other people and communicating ..... through a chat box ....... There is VERY LITTLE difference in your definition of soloing and grouping
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Ah now see the thing is though in EQ, soloing provided far less xp, and you had to spend far more time than people who actually grouped up.
You wouldnt ever have had the good gear, the people to come out and rezz you for the xp return, or even people to help you kill off other people so you could get back to your corpse. Thats a huge handicap if you ask me, and thats why soloing wasnt all that popular in EQs prime.
See their are people who like to group, but hate forced grouping. Some people don't want to group with just anyone that sends them a silent invite out of the blue. In EQ I had a guild and a group of friends outside that guild I grouped with. However when i couldn't group with them I generally tried to solo. Why? because solo'ing is IMO much preferable to a bad PUG.
I have a strong dislike for games that FORCE you to group with Leeroy Jenkins, or Little Billy the Chuck Norris joke teller. The whole having to wait 2 hours for a raid to form just to find out the guy who wiped your raid the night before as a joke is coming again to me just isn't fun. Yeah it doesn't happen all the time but in Forced grouping games it does happen and you often times have to wait a long time or take a less then desirable group mate along, ie the druid that is too busy having fun nuking that they don't heal the tank, or the tank that runs ahead leaving the healer behind neither protecting them yet expecting them to keep him healed etc.
Personally I loved DDO (a very group oriented game) but only with a group of friends. (actually exploring the dungeon without walk throughs and cheats, no zerging) the sad part is it didn't have enough content and repeating dungeons just kinda killed it IMO. Some others might complain about the instancing, but silly me I actually liked that when we were in a hidden / secret / lost area that there weren't 3-4 orther groups all gunning for the same mobs or camping some named (immersion breaking IMO)
Grouping in an MMO is a lot like life.
Its all about tact and subtlety, leeroy jenkins, and Little billy probably arent bad guys deep down, but when you have a common goal, you grin and bear it. I cant count the hundreds if not thousands of times Ive grouped with people that I dont care for, then after a few times, they grow on ya.
Thats not to say you want complete idiots who waste your time, however dealing with people you dont like is a part of life, both here, and in game.
This is all something youd never learn or experience soloing your way through a game, and frankly people dont need to be disconnected from each other anymore than they already are.
Grouping in an MMO is a lot like life. Its all about tact and subtlety, leeroy jenkins, and Little billy probably arent bad guys deep down, but when you have a common goal, you grin and bear it. I cant count the hundreds if not thousands of times Ive grouped with people that I dont care for, then after a few times, they grow on ya. Thats not to say you want complete idiots who waste your time, however dealing with people you dont like is a part of life, both here, and in game. This is all something youd never learn or experience soloing your way through a game, and frankly people dont need to be disconnected from each other anymore than they already are.
I respectfully disagree. Many poeple play to disconnect from part of their lives or to fill in some blanks. I might be wrong but I feel many that like forced grouping perhaps don't get enough socializing in real life (I'm not saying they don't have a life only that perhaps their job or whatever doesn't allow them to be as social as deep down they would like.)
As for me I'm a nurse in RL (LVN/91C) My whole job is working with people good and bad day in and day out. Some are great some aren't and no if someones being a asshat you can't ignore them. As a nurse you very much have to try and understand people who are sick / in pain / scared that often times take it out on you. Anger or ignoring them isn't a option. So when I'm in game i perhaps have alot less reason to tolerate whichever asshate then you. To put it simply I like having the choice to disconnect from people in game because I'm not allowed to do so in RL. As you say we are forced to deal with people we don't like RL why would we want that in a game??
Funny how different peoples RL's effect their playstyle.
I think what it is saying is that Raiders don't have a problem having solo content in a game, whilst Soloers whine to death if the game has Raiding in it.
That's the point of the post I think.
I kinda agree with the OP, I don't think people who prefer solo understand what MMORPGs are all about.
The least thing they should do is to compaign against group/raid oriented content, since the Massively in MMORPG stand for that.
Solo content should be present in any MMO, but it shouldn't be the main feature.
Odd as I've always seen your posts honestly as the group/raid player that insists every game bend to his group/raid playstyle. Take any of your posts in EQ2 forums the game suck's you say in pretty much every post because its not interdependent forced grouping/raid based. Your views (as far as i've seen) have never in any post (up till this one) ever allowed for a solo playstyle. ie if the game doesn't force grouping it sux.
It is not odd, if you read carefully the OP and my post, you will realise that what we are saying is that Raiders or Group oriented players are far more tollerant than Soloers.
My posts you read on EQ2 forums are not an intollerant attack on Soloers, but they are a sort of retaliation on the negative consequences their costant whinig can bring upon some games.
The whine is so strong that is able to influence companies (SoE in this case) to overhaul a game completely disregarding the core player base.
EQ2 and SWG were fun and challenging games to play, it was possible to solo for the most part, but it was fairly challenging, and if you wanted the very best you had to group/Raid.
Because of their constant whines, with RoK, EQ2 has been transformed into a solo game, yes you can group, but because it is not as challenging and rewarding as before, most raiders and people who prefer to group left.
Now I don't have a problem for solers having their own game, what I don't like is for Soloers coming into group/raid oriented games and whine so much that developers change the nature of the game to appeal them, while at the same time penalising the Groupers, which the game was designed for.
You won't see Groupers/Raiders, opening endless threads in solo oriented games, whining about the fact that the game doesn't have raiding and grouping is weak.
We just don't play that game.
But for soloers it looks like EVERY game should cater for them and you see them in masses in every MMO forum whining about the lack of solo playstyle in that MMO.
What the OP was trying to explain is that point, it wasn't trying to say that Solo playstyle suxx, and they should't have their game.
This is not a Solo vs Raid thread.
What he was trying to say is that soloers should enjoy the MMOs designed for them, and stop going in raiding oriented MMOs asking to change the game so they can play it.
I think what it is saying is that Raiders don't have a problem having solo content in a game, whilst Soloers whine to death if the game has Raiding in it.
That's the point of the post I think.
I kinda agree with the OP, I don't think people who prefer solo understand what MMORPGs are all about.
The least thing they should do is to compaign against group/raid oriented content, since the Massively in MMORPG stand for that.
Solo content should be present in any MMO, but it shouldn't be the main feature.
Odd as I've always seen your posts honestly as the group/raid player that insists every game bend to his group/raid playstyle. Take any of your posts in EQ2 forums the game suck's you say in pretty much every post because its not interdependent forced grouping/raid based. Your views (as far as i've seen) have never in any post (up till this one) ever allowed for a solo playstyle. ie if the game doesn't force grouping it sux.
It is not odd, if you read carefully the OP and my post, you will realise that what we are saying is that Raiders or Group oriented players are far more tollerant than Soloers.
My posts you read on EQ2 forums are not an intollerant attack on Soloers, but they are a sort of retaliation on the negative consequences their costant whinig can bring upon some games.
The whine is so strong that is able to influence companies (SoE in this case) to overhaul a game completely disregarding the core player base.
EQ2 and SWG were fun and challenging games to play, it was possible to solo for the most part, but it was fairly challenging, and if you wanted the very best you had to group/Raid.
Because of their constant whines, with RoK, EQ2 has been transformed into a solo game, yes you can group, but because it is not as challenging and rewarding as before, most raiders and people who prefer to group left.
Now I don't have a problem for solers having their own game, what I don't like is for Soloers coming into group/raid oriented games and whine so much that developers change the nature of the game to appeal them, while at the same time penalising the Groupers, which the game was designed for.
You won't see Groupers/Raiders, opening endless threads in solo oriented games, whining about the fact that the game doesn't have raiding and grouping is weak,
We just don't play that game.
But for soloers it looks like EVERY game should cater for them and you see them in masses in every MMO forum whining about the lack of solo playstyle in that MMO.
What the OP was trying to explain is that point, it wasn't trying to say that Solo playstyle suxx, and they should't have their game.
What he was trying to say is that soloers should enjoy the MMOs designed for them, and stop going in raiding oriented MMOs asking to change the game so they can play it.
i havent seen many threads asking MMORPGs to bend to soloers. But since all of you are from the EQ2 forums ... maybe this thread should have been made there, so people dont think your makeing things up, this post looks like your stereotyping every type of player.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
It is not odd, if you read carefully the OP and my post, you will realise that what we are saying is that Raiders or Group oriented players are far more tollerant than Soloers.
My posts you read on EQ2 forums are not an intollerant attack on Soloers, but they are a sort of retaliation on the negative consequences their costant whinig can bring upon some games.
The whine is so strong that is able to influence companies (SoE in this case) to overhaul a game completely disregarding the core player base.
EQ2 and SWG were fun and challenging games to play, it was possible to solo for the most part, but it was fairly challenging, and if you wanted the very best you had to group/Raid.
Because of their constant whines, with RoK, EQ2 has been transformed into a solo game, yes you can group, but because it is not as challenging and rewarding as before, most raiders and people who prefer to group left.
Now I don't have a problem for solers having their own game, what I don't like is for Soloers coming into group/raid oriented games and whine so much that developers change the nature of the game to appeal them, while at the same time penalising the Groupers, which the game was designed for.
You won't see Groupers/Raiders, opening endless threads in solo oriented games, whining about the fact that the game doesn't have raiding and grouping is weak,
We just don't play that game.
But for soloers it looks like EVERY game should cater for them and you see them in masses in every MMO forum whining about the lack of solo playstyle in that MMO.
What the OP was trying to explain is that point, it wasn't trying to say that Solo playstyle suxx, and they should't have their game.
What he was trying to say is that soloers should enjoy the MMOs designed for them, and stop going in raiding oriented MMOs asking to change the game so they can play it.
So your saying EQ2 is now a solo oriented game but that you don't go there whining that the grouping is weak. as you seem to have in the above post. Umm ok if you don't see what I'm talking about, and the irony in your statements I respectfully give up.
Just out of curiosity what Raid oriented MMO are we talking about that the solo'ers are whining about? I never saw EQ2 as a raid oriented game and i've been playing since release. VG and EQ IMO are and I haven't really seen many solo'ers whining there. WoW maybe but then WoW is weird as its solo friendly not really raid game IMO at all till what lvl 50-60 and then it seems to do a 180 turn into a raid must game.
Hardcore raiders are elitist? nah .... PVPers? no way how about the hardcore grouper? nah they all take a back seat to the Soloer in the Elitist level. you heard the phrase "raid or die" well now the new battlecry is "SOLO or die!". Ask any hardcore raider or grouper and most will tell you they don't mind the soloer, that they should have content geared toward them they don't have a problem with people wanting to solo. Ask a soloer about raiders or hardcore groupers? and you will hear things like "raiding sucks its done by no life losers" "endgames shouldn't be about raiding". Post a topic about Solo content and most are willing to acknowledge a need for it. Post a topic about grouping viablity and you will get post saying "grouping doesn't need to be boosted you can kill faster than us soloers". Post about raid content and you will most likely get "I pay just as much as the raider I as a soloer shouldn't be excluded from content". oh they will cry about how the game isn't fair to thier playstyle, how game should cater to them as well but the reality is that games ARE ONLY catering to thier playstyle and they still aren't happy. they still whine and complain anytime a new group oriented dungeon comes out, they whine and complain anytime a new raid zone comes out. when really you never EVER hear a hardcore raider/grouper complain about new solo quests coming out. Its all about the soloer all the time and its sad that more and more games are listening to these elitists
Ridiculous. First do not group all solo preference players into one group. You do it through your entire post. The premise of your argument and even thread title is flawed. They, Them, They will cry, all about the soloers, solo or die, elitists, totally ridiculous. Every game is developed differently, however you never even mention a single game title where this is happening as you claim is happening to the entire mmo genre. Do you have any kids? You sound like a child having a tantrum.
Hardcore raiders are elitist? nah .... PVPers? no way how about the hardcore grouper? nah they all take a back seat to the Soloer in the Elitist level.
Seems to me, your the group oriented player who is crying about solo players. Everything you accuse solo players for you are doing with this thread.
The topic of solo play and group play is an important one and would make a good discussion. However this thread is not that. It is a whiney biased attempt to insult and put down others who like solo play. I follow this genre closely. I have played all the top rated games listed at this site. I have 10 years of mmos experience and I have never heard this ridiculous premise reguarding solo players, demanding all games be solo play or die. I solo and group play but prefer group play by far. I totally disagree with the OP. I see no evidence of what they are claiming. Not that games are getting more solo friendly because they are, it is smart business. I see no evidence of the elitist crying solo players that the OP apparently sees everywhere. The latest big release is WAR a totally group oriented game. I play WAR and there is almost no solo play built into the game it is a group, pvp, rvr, raid game. The developers have made it clear this is not a solo game. So how did all the solo elitists crying make WAR a solo game? The answer is; it didn't.
It is not odd, if you read carefully the OP and my post, you will realise that what we are saying is that Raiders or Group oriented players are far more tollerant than Soloers.
My posts you read on EQ2 forums are not an intollerant attack on Soloers, but they are a sort of retaliation on the negative consequences their costant whinig can bring upon some games.
The whine is so strong that is able to influence companies (SoE in this case) to overhaul a game completely disregarding the core player base.
EQ2 and SWG were fun and challenging games to play, it was possible to solo for the most part, but it was fairly challenging, and if you wanted the very best you had to group/Raid.
Because of their constant whines, with RoK, EQ2 has been transformed into a solo game, yes you can group, but because it is not as challenging and rewarding as before, most raiders and people who prefer to group left.
So your saying EQ2 is now a solo oriented game but that you don't go there whining that the grouping is weak. as you seem to have in the above post. Umm ok if you don't see what I'm talking about, and the irony in your statements I respectfully give up.
Just out of curiosity what Raid oriented MMO are we talking about that the solo'ers are whining about? I never saw EQ2 as a raid oriented game and i've been playing since release. VG and EQ IMO are and I haven't really seen many solo'ers whining there. WoW maybe but then WoW is weird as its solo friendly not really raid game IMO at all till what lvl 50-60 and then it seems to do a 180 turn into a raid must game.
oh well its getting late peace all
Do me a favour, if you want to have a discussion read everything people said.
Read the red marked text in respose to the orange highlighted comment, I make it easy for you.
What it says is that I do post in EQ2 as a consequence of solers whiners changing the nature of the game, where do I say I don't go there to whine?
What I don't do is going in Solo oriented MMO forums, whining there is no grouping/raiding, like people did in SWG, EQ2, Vanguard (previous to launch) and even EQ.
And yes EQ2 has been designed for end game raiding and grouping, like EQ and Vanguard, although with a much smoother leveling curve.
If EQ2 had been designed for solo gamers from the beginning, I wouldn't go there complaining about how solo friendly that game is.
In fact I wouldn't have played it in the first place.
Instead I have 2 lvl 70 and 1 lvl 80 parked, hoping SoE reverts back to the original design.
It is not whining that is changing the games. Game companies look at the forums but the big decisions are backed up by marketing numbers. Simply there are more people that solo and casually group than raiders. When a game has a lot for soloers to do they stay in the game longer. Which means more money for the game company.
It still amazes me that people play MMORPGs and get upset when they are forced to play with others. The entire point of an MMO is to be in a living breathing world with thousands of other players from accross the globe, and interacting with them in different ways. If all you want to do is solo, why in the hell would you play an MMORPG? It makes absolutely no sense at all. Go play a single player game then.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Solo play doesnt belong in MMOs its slowly killing the social aspect of MMOs.
Solo play is fine, what's killing MMOs is bad group content.
People solo because they can play the game whenever they want, without logging on and spending 20 minutes to hours finding a group.
If you want group content to regain it's glory you have to.
1. Give rewards for group play that make it worthwhile
2. Make it quick and easy to get into a group.
3. Reduce travel time going to where your group is, or where your group is going
4. Make Group content tie into the solo content. For example, have a quest chain to fight say, the wow defias. And then have a group mansion/castle to go into and kill for the final step, similar to deadmines... except more into the regular questing.
5. Make Elite mobs scale in difficulty based on party make up. This would be hard. like If you have a tank it does more damage(but its manageable) If you have a healer it has more hp(takes longer to kill) if you have dps classes then it's defense goes up. So for each party member, while it is easier overall(and doable) you will end up with a challenging fight, and perhaps doable without a tank since it's damage doesnt go up and a healer could cover a sturdy dps.
Or if theres no healer it wouldn't have as much dps, so if the tank could mitigate damage well enough the dps could potentially burn him down.
Something like that anyway...
If you keep it like EQ/EQOA/FFXI style grouping then no thank you.
The day you see me logging onto a game and going
Necromancer LFG!!!!! for 20 minutes every time i log in... is the day i don't log in.
Thats why you join a nice large, and active guild, I played EQ for over 5 years, and never had to worry much about not finding groups.
Now if you instead offer lots of solo content, then you are making it harder for grouping as far as Im concerned, if everyones out soloing, then youll have a far harder time finding a group.
Again, make a lot of friends in a game, the more friends you have the less you'll have to wait for groups.
I cant count how many times I used to log into EQ, and got multiple tells from people saying "man where have you been, come tank for us!"
But again people dont seem to understand that guilds, as well as building relationships with other gamers will solve your grouping problems, instead they continue ontheir solo route, hardly speaking or interacting with anyone, and thus turning the game into a sterile, empty experience.
Introduce yourself to people, throw em gear youve picked up that you cant use, help them out, I promise you that you will find MMOs to be a far easier and more enjoyable.
Ah, but a lot of the old timers want forced grouping. Here is what I see if there is a free choice between grouping and soloing, the easier path is taken. Solo isn't always easier, but it has the advantage of not having to play with people you dislike.
The force grouping on people types strike me as people I wouldn't want to team with. It's their personality traits. That is the factor in the "social" aspect of the game where forced grouping fails. It ends up being forced solialization. Any many of those players think of the good old days of forced grouping and don't see that players may not wanted to play with them.
It still amazes me that people play MMORPGs and get upset when they are forced to play with others.
Personally I think the issue isn't so much with being forced to play with others, it's being forced to play with others to make any kind of progress. I think grouping is fun and should be available, but should never be forced on a player. Give large groups XP bonuses, more loot, more money, whatever... but don't take away options for the players who want to play solo or small group.
Every one has different views of what an MMO should be and we all should agree to disagree. And we will protect and fight for the style and what we think should be in a game. But some of these threads that attacks and insult really take away any validity to the arguments.
No one is right or wrong in these type of discussions. if you post something here, then you better expect your going to get views both for and against you.
All things go in trends, and in my opinion MMOs as they are have hit a wall in all of PVP, group, and solo play. And i think we are seeing the aggravation in posts of this nature.
But no need to attack or put someome down because they have different views than you. Bottom line if people like to group, they will group. If like to solo, same thing. If cant find a group dont get mad at the soloer because he doesnt want to play your way. Thats where it comes to.
Trying to force people to play what your idea of a game should be will never work and make you frustrated.
Solo play doesnt belong in MMOs its slowly killing the social aspect of MMOs.
Really it has already killed it....Just about every game coming out the past year is aiming at the soloer and making easy game play to accomodate the casual player.......We see alot more players now that only play a few minutes at a time so games like WoW/EQ2/LoTRO are going to appeal to them more than games like EQ1/FFXI that are more group based........I think games like WOW have totally spoiled the player base by making it so easy to play solo and by holding their hand so much.......Any game that comes out now has to follow these patterns or the players throw a fit.........I think we are seeing the end of any hardcore type of game and I think the genre as a whole is headed towards multiplayers playing single player games with other people around........
I would not play a game that did not have solo content. I don't mind grouping with friends or guildies but I should not be penalized for playing solo some nights. I loathe the raiding community in WoW as in all 4 of the servers I played on they were rude and very elitist. I see no point outisde of realm rvr to have groups of more than 10. I would be happy to meet a raiding community that realizes some people actually have jobs and don't like to raid. I do not know what happened to the raiding community tjese are not the same decent people I grouped with in EQ or DAoC.
Hardcore raiders are elitist? nah .... PVPers? no way how about the hardcore grouper? nah they all take a back seat to the Soloer in the Elitist level. you heard the phrase "raid or die" well now the new battlecry is "SOLO or die!". Ask any hardcore raider or grouper and most will tell you they don't mind the soloer, that they should have content geared toward them they don't have a problem with people wanting to solo. Ask a soloer about raiders or hardcore groupers? and you will hear things like "raiding sucks its done by no life losers" "endgames shouldn't be about raiding". Post a topic about Solo content and most are willing to acknowledge a need for it. Post a topic about grouping viablity and you will get post saying "grouping doesn't need to be boosted you can kill faster than us soloers". Post about raid content and you will most likely get "I pay just as much as the raider I as a soloer shouldn't be excluded from content". oh they will cry about how the game isn't fair to thier playstyle, how game should cater to them as well but the reality is that games ARE ONLY catering to thier playstyle and they still aren't happy. they still whine and complain anytime a new group oriented dungeon comes out, they whine and complain anytime a new raid zone comes out. when really you never EVER hear a hardcore raider/grouper complain about new solo quests coming out. Its all about the soloer all the time and its sad that more and more games are listening to these elitists
I don't know if groupers or soloers complain more. It's probably about even. I do know that soloers often fail to understand that if you can make xp just as fast solo as you can grouping, it destroys teh grouping game, because grouping is so much more labor intensive than playing solo.
I would not play a game that did not have solo content. I don't mind grouping with friends or guildies but I should not be penalized for playing solo some nights. I loathe the raiding community in WoW as in all 4 of the servers I played on they were rude and very elitist. I see no point outisde of realm rvr to have groups of more than 10. I would be happy to meet a raiding community that realizes some people actually have jobs and don't like to raid. I do not know what happened to the raiding community tjese are not the same decent people I grouped with in EQ or DAoC.
I don't mind solo content, as long as it's balanced so it doesn't destroy the grouping game. However I would play a game with no solo content.
I'm not talking about end game raiding, but the leveling, or gaining skills, part of the game.
It still amazes me that people play MMORPGs and get upset when they are forced to play with others. The entire point of an MMO is to be in a living breathing world with thousands of other players from accross the globe, and interacting with them in different ways. If all you want to do is solo, why in the hell would you play an MMORPG? It makes absolutely no sense at all. Go play a single player game then.
I live in a living, breathing world with billions of others, and yet I often do things solo. But at the same time I do interact with many every day. Its the same in a MMO, you can solo a lot and still participate in the economy, be very active on the chat channels, be in a guild and even group sometimes.
Like in life there are different sorts of people, so there are in MMO's. I find it sad to see that we also bring the same kind of intolerance as in real life to those who do things different than us....
Comments
you missed the point of the post ...... VIDEO GAMES are about haveing fun, not everybody finds fun in grouping. MMORPG or not, its still a game.
So let me ask you this, if all you did was solo, then why play an MMO? Why not a single player RPG?
because, there wasnt any everquest Single player games out, and it was still nice to be around other people and to talk with them through shout or some other general chat. Soloing doesnt mean you dont socialize with anybody at all.....
today i solo all the time in Lineage 2, i even solo when i pvp with others outside dion (a city) or in the arena, i have quite a few friends in L2 and i can make more alot easier. I choose not to, because to make friends in a pvp game means you make enemies as well.
Ofc later i will group up for pvp and end game, like i sometimes do in WoW. I solo when i level, i group up when i do mass pvp (castle sieges and etc)
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Single player RPG's are pathetically easy to hack when you get stuck. Almost all of them use game save files that are easy to disassemble with a Hex editor & don't use checksums.
Yes I know that cheating in single player games is pretty sad, but its usually so easy it is a constant source of temptation. At least with MMOs your character file is stored on a secure server.
To be serious though, even if you spend most of your time soloing, MMOs are still better because you get to talk to other people & make friends even if you don't group with them that often.
MMOs are all about socialising & that doesn't always have to mean killing things together.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
Take the Hecatomb? TCG What Is Your Doom? quiz.
you would think that would hurt its subscription numbers...... And if it does like i think it will, im sure Adventurine witll churn out as much solo content as they can, or the soloers will disapear into the corners of the unpopulated server while guilds are too busy doin their pvp in the main areas of the world.
EDIT: kinda reminds me of shadowbane ..... and look where that game is now.
I believe there is a certain truth here.
People don't like losing all the time. FFA/Full loot games tend to eat up the solo'ers first, and then the small guilds, and gradually if not corrected it builds up to their being just one big guild that steam rolls over everything. Shadowbane being one example. I will be interesting to see how or if DF is prepared for this. Sure a solo'er could run off to the outback but sooner or later ones gonna want to return to a town to sell/reequipe etc and if your ganked and looted ever time you do it will get old fast.
Single player RPG's are pathetically easy to hack when you get stuck. Almost all of them use game save files that are easy to disassemble with a Hex editor & don't use checksums.
Yes I know that cheating in single player games is pretty sad, but its usually so easy it is a constant source of temptation. At least with MMOs your character file is stored on a secure server.
To be serious though, even if you spend most of your time soloing, MMOs are still better because you get to talk to other people & make friends even if you don't group with them that often.
MMOs are all about socialising & that doesn't always have to mean killing things together.
No offense, but go load up a single player game, and run a chat room in front of it, same deal right?
Heres the deal, I got away from single player games and went to MMOs for the social interaction, you cant get social interaction from a single player RPG, but you can bring your solo play style to an MMO?
if 50 percent of a servers population is soloing, its crippling a good portion of the people who need and want groups, look at how bad PQs are in WAR. This is a prime example of everyone soloing then complaining that there arent any groups, well duh, if everyones soloing, then of course there arent any groups.
MMOs are terrible now a days when it comes to social interaction, i dunno if it has to do with the generation of people and the way they develop social lives online as opposed to IRL or what, but it doesnt make much sense to me to have everyone soloing, in games built for people to group in.
Again, its the difference between playing an instrument by yourself, and playing in band, isnt the whole point of learning to play, say the guitar, to eventually play in an enviroment with other people, rather than sitting off to the side playing your own song and leaving the band next to you short a guitarist?
MMORPGs are meant for socialization, grouping is only a feature that helps socialization. Name one game that only has group content and no solo content. No developer or company is going to make a game like that.
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Well, my thing is, Id like to see grouping pay off far, and I mean FAR better than soloing, if you solo, it should be penalized so that people prefer to group over soloing.
Thats not an MMO, thats a single player game with a chat room duct taped to it. It misses the whole spirit of cooperation and teamwork.
Sure have your solo content, but make the payoff weak and unappetizing compared to grouping.
See their are people who like to group, but hate forced grouping. Some people don't want to group with just anyone that sends them a silent invite out of the blue. In EQ I had a guild and a group of friends outside that guild I grouped with. However when i couldn't group with them I generally tried to solo. Why? because solo'ing is IMO much preferable to a bad PUG.
I have a strong dislike for games that FORCE you to group with Leeroy Jenkins, or Little Billy the Chuck Norris joke teller. The whole having to wait 2 hours for a raid to form just to find out the guy who wiped your raid the night before as a joke is coming again to me just isn't fun. Yeah it doesn't happen all the time but in Forced grouping games it does happen and you often times have to wait a long time or take a less then desirable group mate along, ie the druid that is too busy having fun nuking that they don't heal the tank, or the tank that runs ahead leaving the healer behind neither protecting them yet expecting them to keep him healed etc.
Personally I loved DDO (a very group oriented game) but only with a group of friends. (actually exploring the dungeon without walk throughs and cheats, no zerging) the sad part is it didn't have enough content and repeating dungeons just kinda killed it IMO. Some others might complain about the instancing, but silly me I actually liked that when we were in a hidden / secret / lost area that there weren't 3-4 orther groups all gunning for the same mobs or camping some named (immersion breaking IMO)
Well, my thing is, Id like to see grouping pay off far, and I mean FAR better than soloing, if you solo, it should be penalized so that people prefer to group over soloing.
Thats not an MMO, thats a single player game with a chat room duct taped to it. It misses the whole spirit of cooperation and teamwork.
Sure have your solo content, but make the payoff weak and unappetizing compared to grouping.
being penalized for playing a game the way you want? Sounds like forced grouping, something that shouldnt and isnt in any MMO i have played or have subscribed to.
And i fail to see how grouping is different from soloing with a chat box. The only difference is your killing stronger monsters with a few other people and communicating ..... through a chat box ....... There is VERY LITTLE difference in your definition of soloing and grouping
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See their are people who like to group, but hate forced grouping. Some people don't want to group with just anyone that sends them a silent invite out of the blue. In EQ I had a guild and a group of friends outside that guild I grouped with. However when i couldn't group with them I generally tried to solo. Why? because solo'ing is IMO much preferable to a bad PUG.
I have a strong dislike for games that FORCE you to group with Leeroy Jenkins, or Little Billy the Chuck Norris joke teller. The whole having to wait 2 hours for a raid to form just to find out the guy who wiped your raid the night before as a joke is coming again to me just isn't fun. Yeah it doesn't happen all the time but in Forced grouping games it does happen and you often times have to wait a long time or take a less then desirable group mate along, ie the druid that is too busy having fun nuking that they don't heal the tank, or the tank that runs ahead leaving the healer behind neither protecting them yet expecting them to keep him healed etc.
Personally I loved DDO (a very group oriented game) but only with a group of friends. (actually exploring the dungeon without walk throughs and cheats, no zerging) the sad part is it didn't have enough content and repeating dungeons just kinda killed it IMO. Some others might complain about the instancing, but silly me I actually liked that when we were in a hidden / secret / lost area that there weren't 3-4 orther groups all gunning for the same mobs or camping some named (immersion breaking IMO)
Grouping in an MMO is a lot like life.
Its all about tact and subtlety, leeroy jenkins, and Little billy probably arent bad guys deep down, but when you have a common goal, you grin and bear it. I cant count the hundreds if not thousands of times Ive grouped with people that I dont care for, then after a few times, they grow on ya.
Thats not to say you want complete idiots who waste your time, however dealing with people you dont like is a part of life, both here, and in game.
This is all something youd never learn or experience soloing your way through a game, and frankly people dont need to be disconnected from each other anymore than they already are.
I respectfully disagree. Many poeple play to disconnect from part of their lives or to fill in some blanks. I might be wrong but I feel many that like forced grouping perhaps don't get enough socializing in real life (I'm not saying they don't have a life only that perhaps their job or whatever doesn't allow them to be as social as deep down they would like.)
As for me I'm a nurse in RL (LVN/91C) My whole job is working with people good and bad day in and day out. Some are great some aren't and no if someones being a asshat you can't ignore them. As a nurse you very much have to try and understand people who are sick / in pain / scared that often times take it out on you. Anger or ignoring them isn't a option. So when I'm in game i perhaps have alot less reason to tolerate whichever asshate then you. To put it simply I like having the choice to disconnect from people in game because I'm not allowed to do so in RL. As you say we are forced to deal with people we don't like RL why would we want that in a game??
Funny how different peoples RL's effect their playstyle.
Odd as I've always seen your posts honestly as the group/raid player that insists every game bend to his group/raid playstyle. Take any of your posts in EQ2 forums the game suck's you say in pretty much every post because its not interdependent forced grouping/raid based. Your views (as far as i've seen) have never in any post (up till this one) ever allowed for a solo playstyle. ie if the game doesn't force grouping it sux.
It is not odd, if you read carefully the OP and my post, you will realise that what we are saying is that Raiders or Group oriented players are far more tollerant than Soloers.
My posts you read on EQ2 forums are not an intollerant attack on Soloers, but they are a sort of retaliation on the negative consequences their costant whinig can bring upon some games.
The whine is so strong that is able to influence companies (SoE in this case) to overhaul a game completely disregarding the core player base.
EQ2 and SWG were fun and challenging games to play, it was possible to solo for the most part, but it was fairly challenging, and if you wanted the very best you had to group/Raid.
Because of their constant whines, with RoK, EQ2 has been transformed into a solo game, yes you can group, but because it is not as challenging and rewarding as before, most raiders and people who prefer to group left.
Now I don't have a problem for solers having their own game, what I don't like is for Soloers coming into group/raid oriented games and whine so much that developers change the nature of the game to appeal them, while at the same time penalising the Groupers, which the game was designed for.
You won't see Groupers/Raiders, opening endless threads in solo oriented games, whining about the fact that the game doesn't have raiding and grouping is weak.
We just don't play that game.
But for soloers it looks like EVERY game should cater for them and you see them in masses in every MMO forum whining about the lack of solo playstyle in that MMO.
What the OP was trying to explain is that point, it wasn't trying to say that Solo playstyle suxx, and they should't have their game.
This is not a Solo vs Raid thread.
What he was trying to say is that soloers should enjoy the MMOs designed for them, and stop going in raiding oriented MMOs asking to change the game so they can play it.
Odd as I've always seen your posts honestly as the group/raid player that insists every game bend to his group/raid playstyle. Take any of your posts in EQ2 forums the game suck's you say in pretty much every post because its not interdependent forced grouping/raid based. Your views (as far as i've seen) have never in any post (up till this one) ever allowed for a solo playstyle. ie if the game doesn't force grouping it sux.
It is not odd, if you read carefully the OP and my post, you will realise that what we are saying is that Raiders or Group oriented players are far more tollerant than Soloers.
My posts you read on EQ2 forums are not an intollerant attack on Soloers, but they are a sort of retaliation on the negative consequences their costant whinig can bring upon some games.
The whine is so strong that is able to influence companies (SoE in this case) to overhaul a game completely disregarding the core player base.
EQ2 and SWG were fun and challenging games to play, it was possible to solo for the most part, but it was fairly challenging, and if you wanted the very best you had to group/Raid.
Because of their constant whines, with RoK, EQ2 has been transformed into a solo game, yes you can group, but because it is not as challenging and rewarding as before, most raiders and people who prefer to group left.
Now I don't have a problem for solers having their own game, what I don't like is for Soloers coming into group/raid oriented games and whine so much that developers change the nature of the game to appeal them, while at the same time penalising the Groupers, which the game was designed for.
You won't see Groupers/Raiders, opening endless threads in solo oriented games, whining about the fact that the game doesn't have raiding and grouping is weak,
We just don't play that game.
But for soloers it looks like EVERY game should cater for them and you see them in masses in every MMO forum whining about the lack of solo playstyle in that MMO.
What the OP was trying to explain is that point, it wasn't trying to say that Solo playstyle suxx, and they should't have their game.
What he was trying to say is that soloers should enjoy the MMOs designed for them, and stop going in raiding oriented MMOs asking to change the game so they can play it.
i havent seen many threads asking MMORPGs to bend to soloers. But since all of you are from the EQ2 forums ... maybe this thread should have been made there, so people dont think your makeing things up, this post looks like your stereotyping every type of player.
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So your saying EQ2 is now a solo oriented game but that you don't go there whining that the grouping is weak. as you seem to have in the above post. Umm ok if you don't see what I'm talking about, and the irony in your statements I respectfully give up.
Just out of curiosity what Raid oriented MMO are we talking about that the solo'ers are whining about? I never saw EQ2 as a raid oriented game and i've been playing since release. VG and EQ IMO are and I haven't really seen many solo'ers whining there. WoW maybe but then WoW is weird as its solo friendly not really raid game IMO at all till what lvl 50-60 and then it seems to do a 180 turn into a raid must game.
oh well its getting late peace all
Hardcore raiders are elitist? nah .... PVPers? no way how about the hardcore grouper? nah they all take a back seat to the Soloer in the Elitist level.
Seems to me, your the group oriented player who is crying about solo players. Everything you accuse solo players for you are doing with this thread.
The topic of solo play and group play is an important one and would make a good discussion. However this thread is not that. It is a whiney biased attempt to insult and put down others who like solo play. I follow this genre closely. I have played all the top rated games listed at this site. I have 10 years of mmos experience and I have never heard this ridiculous premise reguarding solo players, demanding all games be solo play or die. I solo and group play but prefer group play by far. I totally disagree with the OP. I see no evidence of what they are claiming. Not that games are getting more solo friendly because they are, it is smart business. I see no evidence of the elitist crying solo players that the OP apparently sees everywhere. The latest big release is WAR a totally group oriented game. I play WAR and there is almost no solo play built into the game it is a group, pvp, rvr, raid game. The developers have made it clear this is not a solo game. So how did all the solo elitists crying make WAR a solo game? The answer is; it didn't.
So your saying EQ2 is now a solo oriented game but that you don't go there whining that the grouping is weak. as you seem to have in the above post. Umm ok if you don't see what I'm talking about, and the irony in your statements I respectfully give up.
Just out of curiosity what Raid oriented MMO are we talking about that the solo'ers are whining about? I never saw EQ2 as a raid oriented game and i've been playing since release. VG and EQ IMO are and I haven't really seen many solo'ers whining there. WoW maybe but then WoW is weird as its solo friendly not really raid game IMO at all till what lvl 50-60 and then it seems to do a 180 turn into a raid must game.
oh well its getting late peace all
Do me a favour, if you want to have a discussion read everything people said.
Read the red marked text in respose to the orange highlighted comment, I make it easy for you.
What it says is that I do post in EQ2 as a consequence of solers whiners changing the nature of the game, where do I say I don't go there to whine?
What I don't do is going in Solo oriented MMO forums, whining there is no grouping/raiding, like people did in SWG, EQ2, Vanguard (previous to launch) and even EQ.
And yes EQ2 has been designed for end game raiding and grouping, like EQ and Vanguard, although with a much smoother leveling curve.
If EQ2 had been designed for solo gamers from the beginning, I wouldn't go there complaining about how solo friendly that game is.
In fact I wouldn't have played it in the first place.
Instead I have 2 lvl 70 and 1 lvl 80 parked, hoping SoE reverts back to the original design.
It is not whining that is changing the games. Game companies look at the forums but the big decisions are backed up by marketing numbers. Simply there are more people that solo and casually group than raiders. When a game has a lot for soloers to do they stay in the game longer. Which means more money for the game company.
It still amazes me that people play MMORPGs and get upset when they are forced to play with others. The entire point of an MMO is to be in a living breathing world with thousands of other players from accross the globe, and interacting with them in different ways. If all you want to do is solo, why in the hell would you play an MMORPG? It makes absolutely no sense at all. Go play a single player game then.
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Solo play is fine, what's killing MMOs is bad group content.
People solo because they can play the game whenever they want, without logging on and spending 20 minutes to hours finding a group.
If you want group content to regain it's glory you have to.
1. Give rewards for group play that make it worthwhile
2. Make it quick and easy to get into a group.
3. Reduce travel time going to where your group is, or where your group is going
4. Make Group content tie into the solo content. For example, have a quest chain to fight say, the wow defias. And then have a group mansion/castle to go into and kill for the final step, similar to deadmines... except more into the regular questing.
5. Make Elite mobs scale in difficulty based on party make up. This would be hard. like If you have a tank it does more damage(but its manageable) If you have a healer it has more hp(takes longer to kill) if you have dps classes then it's defense goes up. So for each party member, while it is easier overall(and doable) you will end up with a challenging fight, and perhaps doable without a tank since it's damage doesnt go up and a healer could cover a sturdy dps.
Or if theres no healer it wouldn't have as much dps, so if the tank could mitigate damage well enough the dps could potentially burn him down.
Something like that anyway...
If you keep it like EQ/EQOA/FFXI style grouping then no thank you.
The day you see me logging onto a game and going
Necromancer LFG!!!!! for 20 minutes every time i log in... is the day i don't log in.
Thats why you join a nice large, and active guild, I played EQ for over 5 years, and never had to worry much about not finding groups.
Now if you instead offer lots of solo content, then you are making it harder for grouping as far as Im concerned, if everyones out soloing, then youll have a far harder time finding a group.
Again, make a lot of friends in a game, the more friends you have the less you'll have to wait for groups.
I cant count how many times I used to log into EQ, and got multiple tells from people saying "man where have you been, come tank for us!"
But again people dont seem to understand that guilds, as well as building relationships with other gamers will solve your grouping problems, instead they continue ontheir solo route, hardly speaking or interacting with anyone, and thus turning the game into a sterile, empty experience.
Introduce yourself to people, throw em gear youve picked up that you cant use, help them out, I promise you that you will find MMOs to be a far easier and more enjoyable.
Ah, but a lot of the old timers want forced grouping. Here is what I see if there is a free choice between grouping and soloing, the easier path is taken. Solo isn't always easier, but it has the advantage of not having to play with people you dislike.
The force grouping on people types strike me as people I wouldn't want to team with. It's their personality traits. That is the factor in the "social" aspect of the game where forced grouping fails. It ends up being forced solialization. Any many of those players think of the good old days of forced grouping and don't see that players may not wanted to play with them.
Personally I think the issue isn't so much with being forced to play with others, it's being forced to play with others to make any kind of progress. I think grouping is fun and should be available, but should never be forced on a player. Give large groups XP bonuses, more loot, more money, whatever... but don't take away options for the players who want to play solo or small group.
Every one has different views of what an MMO should be and we all should agree to disagree. And we will protect and fight for the style and what we think should be in a game. But some of these threads that attacks and insult really take away any validity to the arguments.
No one is right or wrong in these type of discussions. if you post something here, then you better expect your going to get views both for and against you.
All things go in trends, and in my opinion MMOs as they are have hit a wall in all of PVP, group, and solo play. And i think we are seeing the aggravation in posts of this nature.
But no need to attack or put someome down because they have different views than you. Bottom line if people like to group, they will group. If like to solo, same thing. If cant find a group dont get mad at the soloer because he doesnt want to play your way. Thats where it comes to.
Trying to force people to play what your idea of a game should be will never work and make you frustrated.
Really it has already killed it....Just about every game coming out the past year is aiming at the soloer and making easy game play to accomodate the casual player.......We see alot more players now that only play a few minutes at a time so games like WoW/EQ2/LoTRO are going to appeal to them more than games like EQ1/FFXI that are more group based........I think games like WOW have totally spoiled the player base by making it so easy to play solo and by holding their hand so much.......Any game that comes out now has to follow these patterns or the players throw a fit.........I think we are seeing the end of any hardcore type of game and I think the genre as a whole is headed towards multiplayers playing single player games with other people around........
I would not play a game that did not have solo content. I don't mind grouping with friends or guildies but I should not be penalized for playing solo some nights. I loathe the raiding community in WoW as in all 4 of the servers I played on they were rude and very elitist. I see no point outisde of realm rvr to have groups of more than 10. I would be happy to meet a raiding community that realizes some people actually have jobs and don't like to raid. I do not know what happened to the raiding community tjese are not the same decent people I grouped with in EQ or DAoC.
I don't know if groupers or soloers complain more. It's probably about even. I do know that soloers often fail to understand that if you can make xp just as fast solo as you can grouping, it destroys teh grouping game, because grouping is so much more labor intensive than playing solo.
I don't mind solo content, as long as it's balanced so it doesn't destroy the grouping game. However I would play a game with no solo content.
I'm not talking about end game raiding, but the leveling, or gaining skills, part of the game.
I live in a living, breathing world with billions of others, and yet I often do things solo. But at the same time I do interact with many every day. Its the same in a MMO, you can solo a lot and still participate in the economy, be very active on the chat channels, be in a guild and even group sometimes.
Like in life there are different sorts of people, so there are in MMO's. I find it sad to see that we also bring the same kind of intolerance as in real life to those who do things different than us....