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... and if it was LA the culprit?
Deewe
Member UncommonPosts: 1,980
The more I read here and there from LA, SOE, Bioware, friends of my old uncle dog...
...the more I have the feeling LA obliged SOE to do the NGE.
And they let them look like the bad guy.
Not that I have much love for SOE. Even I feel disturbance in the force.
Comments
Agreed.
Tecmo Bowl.
I have no doubt that LA told SOE to do something about the low subscriptions (as compared to WoW). However, in IMHO, SOE is still guilty of designing and implementing the NGE. I hold both companies responsible for the mess.
LA for deciding every product should be aimed at 8yr olds, SOE for making it a junk product aimed at 8yr olds
Does it really matter who brought the horrible CU/NGE abortions into the world?
We do at least have some hope that one Emulator or another will complete one day, thereby providing us what so many, myself included, asked SOE for.
Pre-CU SWG!
That people still ask for it by name reminds me of what happened when Coca Cola tried to change the formulation of their flagship beverage. The consumers beat them about the head and shoulders via phone.
I was particularly vocal at the CU and beyond. And I've never recieved the first offer from SOE to come back and retry the game either! Guess they were paying attention after all.
If a good Emulator is released? Well, by all means support it!
Sure it does! Look towards TOR... like LA IS in the loop.
Sure it does! Look towards TOR... like LA IS in the loop.
It's their license so they are obviously involved. SWTOR looks like WoW with an SW theme. Perfectly timed to coincide with the next big Lucasfilm Star Wars "smurfy cartoon film" that will no doubt defecate all over the big screen in 2009/2010.
S
either SOE or LA .
whoever was responsible or the NGE should have left at least one "classic" server online.
the way they acted they lost a lot of multi-subscribers who would have started from scratch maybe but in one of the most unique and sophisticated mmo's that SWG was before the ridiculous NGE/WoWcopy.
SOE might have had more subscibers after the NGE going online but i guess it was just casual customers comprised of curious kids who wanted to swing a lightsaber right after seeing the episode 3.
if either LA or SOE would have the guts and be smart enough they would relaunch a pre-NGE server and, regarding the posts at nexus, have an whole bunch of thankful subscribers because pre-nge offered something that all mmo's (that i've tried so far) do lack :
substance
faster pussycat - kill kill kill
I never had a doubt that LA were behind the NGE decision. The SOE Dev's that worked on SWG weren't allowed to use the bathroom without asking for Lucas Art's permission.
LEC did not force SOE to implement the NGE, they allowed them to do it. It has been said by everyone involved that has commented on it that SOE came up with the NGE and convinced LEC that it was the way to go.
Jeff Freeman (former lead gameplay designer) posted in the vet forum of this site to that effect, Dan Rubenfield (the lead designer during the development of the NGE, who came up with the NGE combat system) posted on his blog to that effect, Alan Crosby ('Brenlo', the Director of Global Communications at SOE) posted on the OBoard to that effect), as well as John Smedly (the President of SOE) who has said that SOE was who came up with the NGE in several interviews.
The NGE did not come from LEC, but the folks at LEC bought into the idea that the NGE was somehow what Star Wars fans wanted out of an MMO, which is the main thing that worries me about the new MMO. The main problem seem to be that the folks at LEC have bought into the idea that the NGE would have been successful if it had been the launch version of SWG, ie., the reason it failed was that it was a revamp, not that it was horrible. That is the same reasoning the folks at SOE have for the NGE being the failure that it is.
The folks at LEC have claimed to have learned some lessons from SWG's poor history. Unfortunately, they seem to have learned the wrong lessons.
even as a revamp it could have been a success if it wasn't as horrible as it was.
faster pussycat - kill kill kill
even as a revamp it could have been a success if it wasn't as horrible as it was.
I don't think it would have been a success, unless it was the best MMO ever made. Had the NGE not been a horrible unfun mess, it would likely still have failed, but nowhere near as bad as it did. Completely changing the game would still have alienated many of the existing players, and prevented many folks, who may otherwise have given the game a chance, from trying the game due to not trusting the company behind it, but had the NGE been a fun game, it would have not failed anywhere near as bad as the NGE we got did.
Had the NGE been made into an at least decent game, it would still have many more players than it currently does. The core game of the NGE is horrible, and it would require another complete game revamp to improve it.
And they liked it so much they're making a new MMO with the same ideas...
don't get me wrong i totally agree with you.
just wanted to play the devil's advocate once.
faster pussycat - kill kill kill
Still I wonder...
As a note NGE could have been very successful if it was launched with a real FPS engine: z axis, collision detection, LOS. Something like Dark Forces/Battlefront with crafters and entertainers.
Another big question is who's refusing to bring up Pre-CU servers, SOE, LA?
Beause we all know it could have some decent player population, maybe even better than NGE...
And they liked it so much they're making a new MMO with the same ideas...
there is a difference between stupid and ignorant...wonder which one LEC is...
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
LA never told SOE how to manage their online game.
The CU and the NGE both stems from John Smedley, President of SOE.
I think that all this is just a desperate attempt on SOE:s part to shift some of the blame.
That's the scenario I favor.
I really think that WoW's success is what caused LA to go into the "OMG these non-entities are pwning our butts!". It helped that it also scared the katra out of SOE as well.
Before WoW came along, despite its flaws, SWG was considered to be quite successful. Then WoW changed all the rules, and made it impossible to ignore the many mistakes made with SWG's premature launch and poor polishing. Couple this with the absurd notion that SWG was somehow too "intellectual" for the kids market, and you've got LA jumping up and down like Homer Simpson waiting for a chili cookioff that it's not good enough! Our IP is being beaten by some upstarts! This cannot be! Fix it, SOE, fix it! You're making us look bad!
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
i think that even as a real FPS the NGE would have failed the acceptance of most of the vet-players at the time since the it dropped way too many professions crippling ingame economy almost to the max.
crafting and trade along with the lack of visual player lvls made pre-nge SWG a unique game.
and yes it came like an uncut gem with bugs and glitches and an intellectual intent but still the complexity of the gamemechanics were a challenge.
compared to wow which came as a tailor-made game that could been played by even 7 year old kids and still is a goldmine for blizzard SWG was rough complex but yet more fun to play settled in a scenario that differs a lot from boring orcs elves and alikes.
i can't remember whether it was was after the CU or the NGE but there were words from either SO$ LA or both that the code from the older versions has vanished or has been deleted so there wouldn't be a chance to rollback or establish a classic server (just a lie i guess to stop bitching about rollbacks etc)
be inventive and search google for swgemu and check the community and you'll know for sure that there's a huge request for a pre-nge swg and not just maybe
faster pussycat - kill kill kill
I could copy paste a bunch of disclosures from current/former SOE staff, but this pretty much sums it all up.
LA did poor market research and poor/dishonest marketting around the time of the NGE. They also told SOE to "do something" to make the game more successful.
SOE came up with and implemented the NGE in a short 3 month time period, and it was a disaster.
You can point fingers at one or the other, but an LA representative once summed it up best by saying the two companies held hands and took the plunge.
LA is now under new leadership, but some of their marketting around the new MMO has a familiar smell.
I'll see how the new game does at release, see if Bioware was allowed to make a really polished and fun product. If so, I'll probably join in the fun. The other game I'm looking forward to though is Cryptic's Star Trek Online. They seem to have their act together as an MMO company, and I've never seen them do anything dishonest.
Still I wonder...
As a note NGE could have been very successful if it was launched with a real FPS engine: z axis, collision detection, LOS. Something like Dark Forces/Battlefront with crafters and entertainers.
Another big question is who's refusing to bring up Pre-CU servers, SOE, LA?
Beause we all know it could have some decent player population, maybe even better than NGE...
Tbh I think pre-cu left with some of the most qualified developers. SWG had a developer exodus as well as a player exodus. I'd argue that they lost much of their best talent.
Someone at SOE said they could technically do CU servers, but could not technically do Pre-Cu (Lorin Jameson I believe, according to another recent thread, apologies if I've mispelled that).
I don't really care though. After all the changes and misleading communication from Smedley, I wouldn't trust them to run a classic server honestly.
I have a bit more faith in LA at this point, despite their role in SWG's problems, mainly because they are now under new leadership, and because they've chosen to work with Bioware. These are two positive steps in my mind.
SOE is still run by Smedley, and he's moving more towards RMT, by his own admission because people will pay you more than you might expect in this model. He's broken gamers' trust over and over, and seems to care about money over and above anything else, including his reputation, the quality of his products and the satisfaction of his customers. Most successful CEO's consider those things a package deal, but not Smed.
Whocares really SOE is just as bad as LA with their shit games.
Ruined EQ, PS and EQ2 launched like shit and still is shit. Then they have MxO and Vanguard which suck and their future mmorpgs like Dc Online and Free worlds look like shit too.
So really it wouldn't have made a difference because SOE woulda ruined SWG even if it wasn't Star Wars.
Still I wonder...
As a note NGE could have been very successful if it was launched with a real FPS engine: z axis, collision detection, LOS. Something like Dark Forces/Battlefront with crafters and entertainers.
Another big question is who's refusing to bring up Pre-CU servers, SOE, LA?
Beause we all know it could have some decent player population, maybe even better than NGE...
Tbh I think pre-cu left with some of the most qualified developers. SWG had a developer exodus as well as a player exodus. I'd argue that they lost much of their best talent.
Someone at SOE said they could technically do CU servers, but could not technically do Pre-Cu (Lorin Jameson I believe, according to another recent thread, apologies if I've mispelled that).
I don't really care though. After all the changes and misleading communication from Smedley, I wouldn't trust them to run a classic server honestly.
I have a bit more faith in LA at this point, despite their role in SWG's problems, mainly because they are now under new leadership, and because they've chosen to work with Bioware. These are two positive steps in my mind.
SOE is still run by Smedley, and he's moving more towards RMT, by his own admission because people will pay you more than you might expect in this model. He's broken gamers' trust over and over, and seems to care about money over and above anything else, including his reputation, the quality of his products and the satisfaction of his customers. Most successful CEO's consider those things a package deal, but not Smed.
On the RMT thing, a few years back, LA mentioned in an interview that they'd like to feature RMT in their next Star Wars MMO.
Which is definitly my biggest concern regarding TOR. I sincerly hope Bioware stays far away from this, but something tells me not to hold my breath.
Still I wonder...
As a note NGE could have been very successful if it was launched with a real FPS engine: z axis, collision detection, LOS. Something like Dark Forces/Battlefront with crafters and entertainers.
Another big question is who's refusing to bring up Pre-CU servers, SOE, LA?
Beause we all know it could have some decent player population, maybe even better than NGE...
Tbh I think pre-cu left with some of the most qualified developers. SWG had a developer exodus as well as a player exodus. I'd argue that they lost much of their best talent.
Someone at SOE said they could technically do CU servers, but could not technically do Pre-Cu (Lorin Jameson I believe, according to another recent thread, apologies if I've mispelled that).
I don't really care though. After all the changes and misleading communication from Smedley, I wouldn't trust them to run a classic server honestly.
I have a bit more faith in LA at this point, despite their role in SWG's problems, mainly because they are now under new leadership, and because they've chosen to work with Bioware. These are two positive steps in my mind.
SOE is still run by Smedley, and he's moving more towards RMT, by his own admission because people will pay you more than you might expect in this model. He's broken gamers' trust over and over, and seems to care about money over and above anything else, including his reputation, the quality of his products and the satisfaction of his customers. Most successful CEO's consider those things a package deal, but not Smed.
On the RMT thing, a few years back, LA mentioned in an interview that they'd like to feature RMT in their next Star Wars MMO.
Well if it has an RMT business model, I'll take my business elsewhere. It's really that simple. As MMOs are designed and regulated at the moment, companies can manipulate the game mechanics at their whim to increase demand for RMT items. This is not a consumer friendly environment at all, so for me, it's not a place I would choose to spend my leisure time. I'd rather simply pay for a quality entertainment service up front, without having to worry about additional expenses later to remain competitive. I'm definitely not Smed's target audience, and we'll see if I'm LEC's when their new MMO is released. I don't "need" to play a StarWars MMO, and I'm not willing to put myself in a bad situation just to have this experience.
MMOs interest me very much, mainly for adventure, community and exploration, but I'm only going to play ones that work, are fun, and have a consumer friendly business model. Millions of other gamers appear to feel similarly, and seek out MMOs that fit these criteria.
I suspect that "technically" has to do with RoTW and ToOW being designed for a level-based game, ie. the CU. Given talented developers (which is not at all a "given" at SOE), I don't doubt that they could have been adapted to pre-CU, but it would take a lot more effort. So a real Classic server would either require a lot more work to fully implement, or have to leave out 2 of 3 game expansions. I do wonder just how hard it would really be to convert their "angry bag o' level" mobs into well-rounded pre-CU mobs. A certain amount of cookie-cutter-ism in the results would be fine with me.