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The Dow loses 10 percent of its value in the two days following the election
Zindaihas
Member UncommonPosts: 3,662
Or to put a dollar figure on it, that's about $1.2 trillion. Meanwhile, Pelosi is right now meeting with executives from the big three auto makers about a second stimulus package to help prop up their industry. The word is the government plans to help them. Other industries are expected to ask for similiar help soon as well.
Hmmm...
Comments
Maybe one day they will realize that is consumers that prop up industries not the other way around.
Let them fail. If they arnt gana make a product that people want then to heck with them.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Thats not too bad, considering who was elected.
That's 2 million jobs you're dismissing . Toyota is in the same bucket and soon to plummet just like the others dure to the ACTUAL ROOT CAUSE which is the financial meltdown.
It is in our country's best interest which means YOUR best interest to help these companies through this crisis.
Your simplistic post was simplistic.
That's 2 million jobs you're dismissing . Toyota is in the same bucket and soon to plummet just like the others dure to the ACTUAL ROOT CAUSE which is the financial meltdown.
It is in our country's best interest which means YOUR best interest to help these companies through this crisis.
Your simplistic post was simplistic.
How is helping these companies going to give people money to buy there products?
perhaps the people who own those auto companies could take a pay cut? how much money do they need? if they get more money is there any way we can be sure they wont pocket it.
why don't they drop the price on how much they sell their cars for, so people will buy more.
besides i hope nobody is trying to tie the market dropping to obama getting elected it was already crashing and raising somewhat back and forth...well more crashing.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
That's 2 million jobs you're dismissing . Toyota is in the same bucket and soon to plummet just like the others dure to the ACTUAL ROOT CAUSE which is the financial meltdown.
It is in our country's best interest which means YOUR best interest to help these companies through this crisis.
Your simplistic post was simplistic.
How is helping these companies going to give people money to buy there products?
My point is that it's not the cars, it's the ability to buy them. GM and Toyota were doing fine when consumers were buying and could get easy credit. The answer is first to inject the companies with enough to stay afloat through the reccesion and that will require some job loss and pain. Secondly we need to move to a better model and GM is finally realizing this,
My point is that it's not the cars, it's the ability to buy them. GM and Toyota were doing fine when consumers were buying and could get easy credit. The answer is first to inject the companies with enough to stay afloat through the reccesion and that will require some job loss and pain. Secondly we need to move to a better model and GM is finally realizing this,
People don't have any money and can't buy cars. So you take money from the people (that they don't have) and give it to the companies. It's not going to work IMHO.
Government wants and needs to help. Big business has the Government ear. (Government is in Big Business's pocket). This is the only reason these bailouts are focused on the companies. The companies get the money, but the problem still remains. We need solutions that address the problems, not just give money to the people that have the Governments ear. Just my opinion.
I consider it a loan to be paid back by GM in better times which means the gov should add incentives for CHANGING the status quo. Those jobs belong to PEOPLE; the very same people you dichotomize.
Well then you would be foolish. Just look at the banker bailout for an example. We just got robbed for what will probably be 5 trillion dollars (it was a blank check, not fixed at 700 billion). Those banks are turning that money over to the shareholders (I.E. extreamly wealthy investment families) and not at all encouraging consumer spending. That is the same thing that will be done with the car industry and then every other industry. Until finally one day all credibility the US dollar once had will suddely disapear. And your life savings, won't buy a loaf of bread. Have fun not thinking things through. I'm sure that'll work out swell.
Do you mean to tell me the annointed 1 has not turned the economy around since his election?
From the amount of hype surrounding him id have thought that a miracle had occured.Well this was a qwik honeymoon now wasnt it?
You All should have voted for real change and voted libertarian.GO FAIR TAX!!!
What is your physical limit?
Have some faith in our productive abilities. America will rise out of this mess as we have come together in the past and we will succeed.
The jobs in question do not BELONG to people you are implying ownership.The jobs are OWNED by the company who then chooses to let someone oerform the task for a preset discussed wage.
What is your physical limit?
Well then you would be foolish. Just look at the banker bailout for an example. We just got robbed for what will probably be 5 trillion dollars (it was a blank check, not fixed at 700 billion). Those banks are turning that money over to the shareholders (I.E. extreamly wealthy investment families) and not at all encouraging consumer spending. That is the same thing that will be done with the car industry and then every other industry. Until finally one day all credibility the US dollar once had will suddely disapear. And your life savings, won't buy a loaf of bread. Have fun not thinking things through. I'm sure that'll work out swell.
Bingo... thank you very much
The fact that they would pay out dividends and bonuses with that money shows that they are not concerned about the American economy.
I mean we got into this mess in the first place because we didn't regulate what these companies were doing with there money, and now were just going to turn around and give them more.
What else do you expect when Bush set the standard for bailouts.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
If you've been watching the market lately this isn't surprising. Everyone is extremely reactionary right now and there was bad market related news coinciding with the elections.
I'm guessing the market is not very excited about the inception of the People's Republic of North America. With this many leftists in charge won't be long before we start calling each other comrade.
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Enjoy your 39.6% income tax.
That's 2 million jobs you're dismissing . Toyota is in the same bucket and soon to plummet just like the others dure to the ACTUAL ROOT CAUSE which is the financial meltdown.
It is in our country's best interest which means YOUR best interest to help these companies through this crisis.
Your simplistic post was simplistic.
The 'root cause' of the American automotive industrys 'crisis' has more to do with not anticipation the high oil prices and not bringing out small models.
It's too easy to put the blame on the market. They were never ready with smaller models when they should have had them ready in development, not the market's fault.
That's 2 million jobs you're dismissing . Toyota is in the same bucket and soon to plummet just like the others dure to the ACTUAL ROOT CAUSE which is the financial meltdown.
It is in our country's best interest which means YOUR best interest to help these companies through this crisis.
Your simplistic post was simplistic.
The 'root cause' of the American automotive industrys 'crisis' has more to do with not anticipation the high oil prices and not bringing out small models.
It's too easy to put the blame on the market. They were never ready with smaller models when they should have had them ready in development, not the market's fault.
Down in texas gas has gone down to 1.85/g in some area's. The whole country doesn't have this inexpensive gas, but it has gone down comparatively across the nation and the auto industries are still going down...and fast. Companies like GM have been in trouble for awhile.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Well then you would be foolish. Just look at the banker bailout for an example. We just got robbed for what will probably be 5 trillion dollars (it was a blank check, not fixed at 700 billion). Those banks are turning that money over to the shareholders (I.E. extreamly wealthy investment families) and not at all encouraging consumer spending. That is the same thing that will be done with the car industry and then every other industry. Until finally one day all credibility the US dollar once had will suddely disapear. And your life savings, won't buy a loaf of bread. Have fun not thinking things through. I'm sure that'll work out swell.
Bingo... thank you very much
The fact that they would pay out dividends and bonuses with that money shows that they are not concerned about the American economy.
I mean we got into this mess in the first place because we didn't regulate what these companies were doing with there money, and now were just going to turn around and give them more.
well except GM froze all divided payments back in july , the 15th actually . So some companies are not going to do the absolute wrost thing , some really are trying to survive.
Gm ran into trouble because it STAYED in the US , if it had left totally in the US in 1990'sit would be a very profitable company ( GM overseas operations are HUGELY profitable and keeping GM alive). The last UAW strike was because GM would not promise to still make cars in the US for the next 10 years.
Its very expensive to do things in the USA and they are about to get more expensive. What did you expect people ? You wanted the rich to pay for evertything thinking they create money when they have to SPEND a ton to make anything. Its hard to lower prices when your suppliers all raise theres , when your workers want 28$ an hour to do a 14$ an hour job , when you retirees demand 50% of your profits , etc...
Almost anyone with any kind of business background told you that companies would not be able to survive all the new taxes , cxhanges to environmental laws , giving unions back the power to cripple an industry if they dont get 100% of what they want . Now they cant and you're acting like its a suprise.
GM has not been a profit house since the 1950's , its always been hanging on and after 1970's has been 1 inch from going away.
Seruiously you guys all demonize business as being evil the cause of everything wrong , how so you expect them to survive when you have created them in teh image of monsters.
You ( the people) wont help , you only DEMAND , jobs, money , free stuff ( sell cheaper !!!) . Its very hard to survive in the business world even if you are popular and well funded , imagine how hard it is to stay when the place you call home hates you.
This is going to spread to everything , everywhere, you need to decide now , help out and keep some things here , or bitch about it all going south and watch them go away , ALL of them.
Then it wont matter how much of a tax break you got when there is 20-30% unemploement.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
I can't imagine having the level of education that our politicians have and still being stupid enough to think that these bail outs can work....the economy has an eb and flow, artificially funding it and just hoping that it gets better with more money being pumped into it has never, and will never work.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Well then you would be foolish. Just look at the banker bailout for an example. We just got robbed for what will probably be 5 trillion dollars (it was a blank check, not fixed at 700 billion). Those banks are turning that money over to the shareholders (I.E. extreamly wealthy investment families) and not at all encouraging consumer spending. That is the same thing that will be done with the car industry and then every other industry. Until finally one day all credibility the US dollar once had will suddely disapear. And your life savings, won't buy a loaf of bread. Have fun not thinking things through. I'm sure that'll work out swell.
Bingo... thank you very much
The fact that they would pay out dividends and bonuses with that money shows that they are not concerned about the American economy.
I mean we got into this mess in the first place because we didn't regulate what these companies were doing with there money, and now were just going to turn around and give them more.
well except GM froze all divided payments back in july , the 15th actually . So some companies are not going to do the absolute wrost thing , some really are trying to survive.
Gm ran into trouble because it STAYED in the US , if it had left totally in the US in 1990'sit would be a very profitable company ( GM overseas operations are HUGELY profitable and keeping GM alive). The last UAW strike was because GM would not promise to still make cars in the US for the next 10 years.
Its very expensive to do things in the USA and they are about to get more expensive. What did you expect people ? You wanted the rich to pay for evertything thinking they create money when they have to SPEND a ton to make anything. Its hard to lower prices when your suppliers all raise theres , when your workers want 28$ an hour to do a 14$ an hour job , when you retirees demand 50% of your profits , etc...
Almost anyone with any kind of business background told you that companies would not be able to survive all the new taxes , cxhanges to environmental laws , giving unions back the power to cripple an industry if they dont get 100% of what they want . Now they cant and you're acting like its a suprise.
GM has not been a profit house since the 1950's , its always been hanging on and after 1970's has been 1 inch from going away.
Seruiously you guys all demonize business as being evil the cause of everything wrong , how so you expect them to survive when you have created them in teh image of monsters.
You ( the people) wont help , you only DEMAND , jobs, money , free stuff ( sell cheaper !!!) . Its very hard to survive in the business world even if you are popular and well funded , imagine how hard it is to stay when the place you call home hates you.
This is going to spread to everything , everywhere, you need to decide now , help out and keep some things here , or bitch about it all going south and watch them go away , ALL of them.
Then it wont matter how much of a tax break you got when there is 20-30% unemploement.
The dividend and bonuses were payed out by the banking industry after the bailout, and I think the problem is a little more complex than your assessment. I agree that the US auto industry has been hampered by the unions, but this problem didn't need to be fatal. There are numerous manufactuers that have found ways to be competative in what has been a very lucrative US market. The US auto industry has failed to adapt to a changing market place and that failure is there own, not the Unions and not the consumers.
It's a question of progress and balance. Frankly, this is something conservatives should have been uniquely qualified to understand. These large US corporations drained this market of everything they could and then moved abroad. What they failed to realize is that by destabilizing the most productive and powerful consumer base in the world, they have destabilized the very global markets they are trying to create. These companies need people making 28 dollars an hour to buy there 50.000.00 cars. It really does go hand in hand.
Listen to what your saying and you can see the flaw in your logic. "You ( the people) wont help , you only DEMAND , jobs, money , free stuff ( sell cheaper !!!). Yet these are the same people that are being asked to bail out these industries.
The growth and success of high dollar US wage earners makes growth possible. Sure companies can ship jobs over seas to produce products for less, but in the end they will only be forced to lower there prices in order to compensate for the new lower wages that people are earning.
I'm sorry friend your wrong. When you get to the bottom of this you find Greed. The Greed of US companies to sell out there workers for short term gains.
no i think the answer is a little of both , i went to the extreme opposite of you guys for a reason.
For example for me , our business was planning to grow,plans to expand a new production center and a CAC ( call center type thing ) center here in texas , we started plans to build and have it break ground in 2009 and running 2010 or 2011.
This is on hold now , not becuase we are greedy, its because whatever is in the budget now wont be enough to cover the costs , i also know that my suppliers prices are going to increase and if i go blindly along and assume that the things arent going to be more expensive i risk the entire company not just the expansion. Now i have 2 choices , try to offset the new costs somehow ( less pay to workers , pass it on to customers, cut benefits , etc) , or look for lower cost alteratives and really there is a a 3rd choice i wont even consider and that would be dont expand at all which would cost the entire business ,since if i cant meet my customers demands they arent going to buy from me and look elsewhere for the part i couldnt do , they will take the entire order somewhere else meaning im out of a job with no clients.
Our budget is tight , ANY significant increase across the board with no offsets or way to make it back would be a disaster. So we have everythign on hold until the new tax plans, new business rules, new everythnig comes into play to see how its handled. Hopefully we can stay in TX. We wont know until we actually see something. But everything we are seeing now points to us going somewhere else , or closing our doors.
The most likely outcome will be move the production center south a few hundred miles and put the CAC center in manila or buenos ares. That would offset alot of anticipated costs( right now it would later it WILL by alot). I mean you guys refuse to pay more for a product because profit is hiorrible and cant be tolerated so even if my costs go up where it cost more for my product than i can charge why even work?. You guys refuse to allow there to be offsets to the new costs ( the rich have to pay!!!) , AND you demand higher wages + more benefits but want to pay nothing for them ( the rich have to pay!!!).
More more more to me for less less less to the guy offering me a job. Fine so now i might not be able to offer you a job now. Tha was helpful. Since i anticipated 200-240 new people working for us.
Even The new president knows this isnt possible and is trying to tell you guys this . Saying thinks like Its going to be bumpy , hard , we all must sacrifice , we all have to last thru the problems , etc ...
The one real issue i have with all this is you refuse to let me generalize you as just as greedy as the business you claim are ALL nothing but greed and we only are successful because we stepped on the worker not because we did something different, We are not all this way , for every 1 business you know is all about greed, there are 100's that do everything right and try to contribute back to the place we came from. I am one of them. I hope to stay one of them.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
I stand corrected. I see it everyday. Of course the other side is that there are allot of people who bust the tail everyday and end up with nothing to show for it, and I for one don't see any future in blaming allot of good people who work extremely hard. I doubt they are the ones who caused this dilemma; and I doubt they are the ones to fix it.
I hope your right about our new President. If he dosn't see it we are all in for worse times.