I would go even much further. Those so called hardened PvP players that use to brag about world PvP (both in Wow and even far more in War) - they think they are PvP players, but in reality they are not. Because if they were interested in really person vs person combat, they would play Arena and do balanced BG's. I can't have fun beating up a group which is three times smaller than ours. If you think you can play, come to a balanced and controlled competition. Now I really think that the idea of RvR is a good one, but practice shows that the wrong players are there in WAR. A real PvP player senses the uncontrolled combat feel you have in War. This is not the standard for good PvP fights. I can't imagine (and I don't see it with the players I know) that good arena players would have fun in War. Far too slow and yes clunky combat. In Wow you strike with your character, you can feel your heals, you can sense your stuns. In War this 'thight" feeling is complete gone. Those who say War is for PvP don't know anything about technical PvP. Sorry. I just came out of two BG's (one AB and one EoS). Our 3 men combo can completely dominate the fields. Yes even in 15 men battles. 2 DPS and a great healer who blindly find each other and know exactly how the ground control is executed. 2 times a complete control with zero flags/towers owned by the enemy after 10 minutes. We level to 2000 and than create constantly new teams with our characters. We live and breath PvP, but War is a no go in this respect. No feeling, no battle I say.
I have read this post several times trying to figure out where you are trying to come from. You say that "real PVP'ers" fight one on one and you go to explain In detail what PVP is all about, one on one.
No where in your post are you saying that you PVP according to your standards, one on one. You always seem to have a team healing you or assisting you in BG's or Arena or open world.
Next time go into your battlefields by your self and then completly dominate the field.
I really don't think you know what you are talking about, so get over yourself, you don't PVP.
I would go even much further. Those so called hardened PvP players that use to brag about world PvP (both in Wow and even far more in War) - they think they are PvP players, but in reality they are not. Because if they were interested in really person vs person combat, they would play Arena and do balanced BG's. I can't have fun beating up a group which is three times smaller than ours. If you think you can play, come to a balanced and controlled competition. Now I really think that the idea of RvR is a good one, but practice shows that the wrong players are there in WAR. A real PvP player senses the uncontrolled combat feel you have in War. This is not the standard for good PvP fights. I can't imagine (and I don't see it with the players I know) that good arena players would have fun in War. Far too slow and yes clunky combat. In Wow you strike with your character, you can feel your heals, you can sense your stuns. In War this 'thight" feeling is complete gone. Those who say War is for PvP don't know anything about technical PvP. Sorry. I just came out of two BG's (one AB and one EoS). Our 3 men combo can completely dominate the fields. Yes even in 15 men battles. 2 DPS and a great healer who blindly find each other and know exactly how the ground control is executed. 2 times a complete control with zero flags/towers owned by the enemy after 10 minutes. We level to 2000 and than create constantly new teams with our characters. We live and breath PvP, but War is a no go in this respect. No feeling, no battle I say.
I have read this post several times trying to figure out where you are trying to come from. You say that "real PVP'ers" fight one on one and you go to explain In detail what PVP is all about, one on one.
No where in your post are you saying that you PVP according to your standards, one on one. You always seem to have a team healing you or assisting you in BG's or Arena or open world.
Next time go into your battlefields by your self and then completly dominate the field.
I really don't think you know what you are talking about, so get over yourself, you don't PVP.
Heuh? I never even mentioned "one on one".
I even spoke of our fixed team with 2 DPS and a healer.
The problem with you guys is that you don't read the full posts. You read "words" - in this case words that aren't even in the message and ... "bang" you're reacting to a post that never even was written.
When I say "person vs person" combat, I do this on purpose, to let you feel exactly how important it is to "feel" the controls over your character. War doesn't have a "tight" responsive control and is slow and clunky compared to the faster and tight combat controls in Wow.
People speak of PvP and they don't know the exact significance of these words. IF you want to have a RvR game, then it should have the best basic PvP control mechanics in the MMORPG industry.
Never even talked about "one on one". Sorry but WAR failed as a PvP game in the execution of its combat fights and everyone who does Wow Arena can feel the difference in the avatar controls..
I would go even much further. Those so called hardened PvP players that use to brag about world PvP (both in Wow and even far more in War) - they think they are PvP players, but in reality they are not. Because if they were interested in really person vs person combat, they would play Arena and do balanced BG's. I can't have fun beating up a group which is three times smaller than ours. If you think you can play, come to a balanced and controlled competition. Now I really think that the idea of RvR is a good one, but practice shows that the wrong players are there in WAR. A real PvP player senses the uncontrolled combat feel you have in War. This is not the standard for good PvP fights. I can't imagine (and I don't see it with the players I know) that good arena players would have fun in War. Far too slow and yes clunky combat. In Wow you strike with your character, you can feel your heals, you can sense your stuns. In War this 'thight" feeling is complete gone. Those who say War is for PvP don't know anything about technical PvP. Sorry. I just came out of two BG's (one AB and one EoS). Our 3 men combo can completely dominate the fields. Yes even in 15 men battles. 2 DPS and a great healer who blindly find each other and know exactly how the ground control is executed. 2 times a complete control with zero flags/towers owned by the enemy after 10 minutes. We level to 2000 and than create constantly new teams with our characters. We live and breath PvP, but War is a no go in this respect. No feeling, no battle I say.
I have read this post several times trying to figure out where you are trying to come from. You say that "real PVP'ers" fight one on one and you go to explain In detail what PVP is all about, one on one.
No where in your post are you saying that you PVP according to your standards, one on one. You always seem to have a team healing you or assisting you in BG's or Arena or open world.
Next time go into your battlefields by your self and then completly dominate the field.
I really don't think you know what you are talking about, so get over yourself, you don't PVP.
Heuh? I never even mentioned "one on one".
I even spoke of our fixed team with 2 DPS and a healer.
The problem with you guys is that you don't read the full posts. You read "words" - in this case words that aren't even in the message and ... "bang" you're reacting to a post that never even was written.
When I say "person vs person" combat, I do this on purpose, to let you feel exactly how important it is to "feel" the controls over your character. War doesn't have a "tight" responsive control and is slow and clunky compared to the faster and tight combat controls in Wow.
People speak of PvP and they don't know the exact significance of these words. IF you want to have a RvR game, then it should have the best basic PvP control mechanics in the MMORPG industry.
Never even talked about "one on one". Sorry but WAR failed as a PvP game in the execution of its combat fights and everyone who does Wow Arena can feel the difference in the avatar controls..
Read your first full paragraph, "person vs person".
Be careful how you phrase your concepts. PVP can take on many forms but you chose to take the form of person vs person.
Actually open world PVP and even RVR is usually more centric to your concept than what you put in your post, Arena is more like a tag team wrestling match.
Your post doesn't really talk about other games in its essence, mostly about how well you work as a team.
I would go even much further. Those so called hardened PvP players that use to brag about world PvP (both in Wow and even far more in War) - they think they are PvP players, but in reality they are not. Because if they were interested in really person vs person combat, they would play Arena and do balanced BG's. I can't have fun beating up a group which is three times smaller than ours. If you think you can play, come to a balanced and controlled competition. Now I really think that the idea of RvR is a good one, but practice shows that the wrong players are there in WAR. A real PvP player senses the uncontrolled combat feel you have in War. This is not the standard for good PvP fights. I can't imagine (and I don't see it with the players I know) that good arena players would have fun in War. Far too slow and yes clunky combat. In Wow you strike with your character, you can feel your heals, you can sense your stuns. In War this 'thight" feeling is complete gone. Those who say War is for PvP don't know anything about technical PvP. Sorry. I just came out of two BG's (one AB and one EoS). Our 3 men combo can completely dominate the fields. Yes even in 15 men battles. 2 DPS and a great healer who blindly find each other and know exactly how the ground control is executed. 2 times a complete control with zero flags/towers owned by the enemy after 10 minutes. We level to 2000 and than create constantly new teams with our characters. We live and breath PvP, but War is a no go in this respect. No feeling, no battle I say.
I have read this post several times trying to figure out where you are trying to come from. You say that "real PVP'ers" fight one on one and you go to explain In detail what PVP is all about, one on one.
No where in your post are you saying that you PVP according to your standards, one on one. You always seem to have a team healing you or assisting you in BG's or Arena or open world.
Next time go into your battlefields by your self and then completly dominate the field.
I really don't think you know what you are talking about, so get over yourself, you don't PVP.
Heuh? I never even mentioned "one on one".
I even spoke of our fixed team with 2 DPS and a healer.
The problem with you guys is that you don't read the full posts. You read "words" - in this case words that aren't even in the message and ... "bang" you're reacting to a post that never even was written.
When I say "person vs person" combat, I do this on purpose, to let you feel exactly how important it is to "feel" the controls over your character. War doesn't have a "tight" responsive control and is slow and clunky compared to the faster and tight combat controls in Wow.
People speak of PvP and they don't know the exact significance of these words. IF you want to have a RvR game, then it should have the best basic PvP control mechanics in the MMORPG industry.
Never even talked about "one on one". Sorry but WAR failed as a PvP game in the execution of its combat fights and everyone who does Wow Arena can feel the difference in the avatar controls..
Read your first full paragraph, "person vs person".
Be careful how you phrase your concepts. PVP can take on many forms but you chose to take the form of person vs person.
Actually open world PVP and even RVR is usually more centric to your concept than what you put in your post, Arena is more like a tag team wrestling match.
By "person vs person" I talked about the concept , of course not the "one on one" restricted action, that was very obvious in my post, I thought.
MMORPG's are still about your character being played in that universe. The PvP game play is just that: YOU control your avatar and you fight other person(s!).
So to have a meaningfull PvP game you need to have full, fluid and unhampered personal control or forget about playing PvP. If I am into an X game and I have to wait 2 seconds for the lag before I can do something against an enemy, you are no longer fighting that person (persons), but you are fighting the.... system and out of synch controls.
Wow's PvP avatar controls are second to none and all those who played the two games can easely agree on that.
Now the RvR concept is a complete different matter: that's the strategical layer above these tactical PvP fights. The idea behind the RvR in War was great and even terrific. The only thing is that if you don't have the best PvP controls (player vs player(s) mechanics), you make the total concept rather meaningless.
I dunno I guess I get sick of arguements or people tossing fanboi/troll etc...
So I guess my reponse is.. its really neat to see how totally different a perspecitve people can have.
LIke:
Some people who play on a high population server (like I did) see awesome RvR and plenty of action and all kinds of open world rvr.
I saw: crappy and limited rvr, no open world rvr.. well some but so little it was closer to none than "a lot' and got bored very quicly. (other than nordenwatch pretty much always had action!!)
Which was odd because even tho I took breaks from DAoC I was still playing it up until 4 months ago.
I'm not sure that I'll ever go back to WAR.
I mean I can understand that gaming is a subjective experience. Some people like the game some won't..
The part that gets me in *ponder* mode is not everything is subjective.
Like when I'd look at 50 something servers.. most of which were low/low or med/low or low/med. Yet another guy that posted here saw them all as "high".
That's not subjective.. it says one thing in text or it says the other. There really isn't a way to see "low" or "med" as "high".
I'd see no open rvr.. then another guy from my server would tell me about this huge keep battle.. that took place at a keep..
I was standing in buying items from the merchant in at the exact time this HUGE battle took place that I never saw.....
Definately not into the "most people I read are planning to resub argument " for WAR. Reading the WAR forums on the vnboards daily it really just reflects how the longer the game goes on the more people tire of it and cancel.
Are people planning on resubbing? Yes, some, for the 1.1 patch which now has become the ever so unwanted "Miracle Patch" which will have to change the game for the better or it's the last time they'll ever resub.
Sure the game pleases people but to say it is not not pleasing a lot of people as well is just ignoring the obvious.
On Azazel server, our Order Alliance has 4-5 Warbands running around capturing, holding BFO's and Keeps. Also holding and defending bridges, High ground, and choke points are happening and the use of scouts are needed for enemy intel. Lately I've been noticing Destruction out smarting us on the battlefield. They will lure us into traps, we've been ambushed by destruction hiding behind trees and rocks out of LOS. In large scale open field battles, they have been using MDPS teams flank and hit us from the rear and taking out our support lines. It has gotten to a point to where our Alliance leaders are on the same vent coordinating battle tactics. And we did attack the MAW with over 200+ over the weekend. It was great even though we failed. One main Destruction guild has over 1000 members alone, once they are mobilized they win.
Open RVR in Warhammer is what makes or breaks the game. The people that leave Warhammer may have not experienced this part of the game. Then they are missing out. WOW doesn't have this type of PVP. I suggest yall move to a bigger active server. Leveling a toon to level 10 and saying it sucks doesn't work in any game. Its all about End game
Open RVR in Warhammer is what makes or breaks the game. The people that leave Warhammer may have not experienced this part of the game. Then they are missing out. WOW doesn't have this type of PVP. I suggest yall move to a bigger active server. Leveling a toon to level 10 and saying it sucks doesn't work in any game. Its all about End game
As with anything first impressions are important. To some extent I can agree that a game shouldn't be judged by the first 10 levels. However, I also think that if you're really bored in the beginning chances are you'll be bored at end game. Themeparks are about the journey, so all levels of the game should be 'fun' to the player.
I really think EA punted on RvR. Imo, scenarios are the bane of the game and should be reconsidered. Every time I walked down to the RvR zones I found myself alone and eventually just battled NPCs.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Still tons of open world PvP on our server (Darklands) with 3-4 warbands running around nightly.
Destruction tried to cap Praag again today, had their zerg out. I took our merry warband and captured the southernmost objectives. We then hid out of sight with one scout in front and positioned ourselves in an arc in the surrounding buildings, trees and rocks using the terrain to our advantage.
The destruction zerg came and their front ranks immediately charged the few people not hiding only to get owned by the arc of firepower we had hidden. Fiery rain vanquished their numbers along with engineer turrets and a sea of arrow and blades. In return, we charged out and the scattered waves of zergy destruction were felled as we pushed forward. This was enough to give us an advantage as we rode in and cleaned up their numbers.
Destruction was demoralised and resorted to defending their only keep left. We fought in it for a good 40minutes to an hour, consolidating our power in the first floor with AOE and builing up our morale abilities, then with on single call we charged upwards into the destruction ranks. Our tanks held aggro on the healers and the rest move past their aoe chokepoint and tank line (collision detection ouch) into the third stairwell and kill the players. In the end whole of Praag had turned from destruction zerg to our hands after quite a few hard fought battles.
lets go to the pivotal point. they are not the same . RvR lives from pvp, but pvp has no need of RvR.
What is happening with WARHAMMER is that many pvp'ers are finding out that they don't like RvR.
Is that simple.
I am one of them . I like to kill other players in game. to gank, pk, corpse camp and whatever. I do not care about keeps, cities, lakes, control points, sieges, or whatever. I sub on the game to kick ass and chew gum, but since i am 34 and haven't chewed gum since yearly twenties ( i like operational jaws), i'm just there to kick ass.
I dont really give a damn about the consequential pvp aspect. For me the game and it's players die IRL each time i log out . only to be ressurected after I log in.
And i also like all the itemization aspect of wow. to mix match min max AP, resilience, talent builds, decide on trinkets, sockets, pvp rotations etc, and all the theorycraft and metagaming aspect of games like wow....something I find lacking in WARHAMMER.
And like me there are many. We found what that this RvR stuff really doesn't give us the kick we expected. And that's it. It is not that warhammer is a bad game, it is ok, but just not what some of us expected. There are people that like it. there are people that like rap and hip hop also. I hate rap ( and the hip op cultural paradigm) and most trance music. It is just not my cup of tea. At the same time I like jazz and blues. I like pvp but that doesnt mean I have to like RvR.
Hi Azirile/ScamMan! You're like a boomerang! Internet boomerang... *waves* And OP: I generally agree with you, but I don't think WAR will break the million sub mark in the next year. After most of the issues are fixed (which appear to be being mostly resolved in 1.1) most people who quit have mentioned that they'll probably re-sub. That, plus trials, and the server 'merges' will start bringing the population up around 600-700k.
Is it true that Azrile = ScamMan = Strategy = Coffee = BodyPass = WoW employee ???
Because...
- they all depend on stupid Xfire
- their writing style and propaganda is all the same
- if they were only WoW fanbois, they wouldn't have that much time to write 1341451 posts in WAR and WoW forums
- no one, even most hardcore Microsoft fans would try to defend a company like this if they are not working for them
----------------------------- Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
No, coffee is not bodypass in my opinion. That being said, Bodypass uses multiple account names to "strengthen" his arguments. If it wasn't for that, I'd say that he was just an avid WoW fan, nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately he's way too "professional" so to speak to be just another fan.
Is that really true? Can someone confirm it please? If it is true, why would so many people criticize that aspect of the game, they say ToK is good, RvR is good, graphics are good, but almost everyone (except certain few) agree that avatar control and combat animations are off, way off.
I prefer WAR to WoW anyday.
But, combat responsiveness of WoW is better than current War. However, there are 2 things:
1. WAR's combat responsiveness is much much better (3x better) compared to 2 months ago.
2. It's been only 1+ month since War is released, and WoW was released like 3-4 years ago. WAR will catch it up within 1-2 months, it's very clear. So, I don't think this is really a problem at all.
WAR's problems are not that many. After release, people were whining about server queues. Now they are whining that some servers have low population. The important thing is that, Mythic is acting very quickly to solve any kind of problems.
Some people were questioning the realm balance, and the lack of tanks Order has. 2 new tank classes will be in game within a month. That's in 3 months after release. When TBC came out, WoW didn't even add a new class to the game, yeah Blizz is that lazy and dumb. Instead they tried to milk more money from craptastic faction timesink and anti-lore races which adds nothing to the game mechanics. After 4 years, they are adding a new class to the game, and still struggling with class balances.
In War, class balance is not perfect. But after 1.1 (in a month), I believe WAR will be much more balanced than WoW is after 4 years.
Mythic > Blizzard in development, because they listen to the customers and know how to add fun to their games. Blizzard is rich and always go for solutions to milk more money.
----------------------------- Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
I left WAR because the support of the game in Europe is very bad. I was not going to pay them two months for them to decide on a server transfer from a server that I started with queues and ended up deserted.
The biggest issue in WAR combat is the lag between your clicking the command and the command happening and you getting feedback about it. The second biggest issue in WAR combat is the players teleporting far from you when you block them for a bit with your body.
No, coffee is not bodypass in my opinion. That being said, Bodypass uses multiple account names to "strengthen" his arguments. If it wasn't for that, I'd say that he was just an avid WoW fan, nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately he's way too "professional" so to speak to be just another fan.
Wow, thank you for the compliment.
No, I just want to play the best games around and because I play them all I "apparently" can make up my mind pretty much quicker than most of the folks around here.
I wanted to like WAR - as a miniature WAR player - and it was boring after a few days. Period. Much too cheap, much too underdeveloped and no game play value.
That said: the WOW subscription numbers are the only "honest" numbers around here on these forums.
Because people vote with their subscription money. A LOT more honest than putting "1"s on a free webpage to vote "hate" with a game.
Wow = 4.5 stars the rest is at 0.25 stars. Nothing to do with hyped sales, all to do with long term payments just to play a game.
All other opinions are rather pointless because they represent personal opinions who vary in time and in place quicker than you can pronounce the word "subscription".
----
btw. this is my only account at the moment>... perhaps Wow is being played by 4.5 million times the same person LOL....Keep up the good work guys. Perhaps with the support of you all Wow hate on this site can be made reasonable again.
Is that really true? Can someone confirm it please? If it is true, why would so many people criticize that aspect of the game, they say ToK is good, RvR is good, graphics are good, but almost everyone (except certain few) agree that avatar control and combat animations are off, way off.
I prefer WAR to WoW anyday.
But, combat responsiveness of WoW is better than current War. However, there are 2 things:
1. WAR's combat responsiveness is much much better (3x better) compared to 2 months ago.
2. It's been only 1+ month since War is released, and WoW was released like 3-4 years ago. WAR will catch it up within 1-2 months, it's very clear. So, I don't think this is really a problem at all.
WAR's problems are not that many. After release, people were whining about server queues. Now they are whining that some servers have low population. The important thing is that, Mythic is acting very quickly to solve any kind of problems.
Some people were questioning the realm balance, and the lack of tanks Order has. 2 new tank classes will be in game within a month. That's in 3 months after release. When TBC came out, WoW didn't even add a new class to the game, yeah Blizz is that lazy and dumb. Instead they tried to milk more money from craptastic faction timesink and anti-lore races which adds nothing to the game mechanics. After 4 years, they are adding a new class to the game, and still struggling with class balances.
In War, class balance is not perfect. But after 1.1 (in a month), I believe WAR will be much more balanced than WoW is after 4 years.
Mythic > Blizzard in development, because they listen to the customers and know how to add fun to their games. Blizzard is rich and always go for solutions to milk more money.
You know that's exactly why you hate a game or company and can't evaluate it decently (and this is a Wow forum btw). Just reread the red.
You begin by actually admitting Wow is better but then you come up with "future visions" of the lesser game and bashing on Bliiz. How are they going to "polish" War when the game engine is based on .... 8 years old DAoC? Wow always had "it" from the very beginning.
I am always talking about a game, you the Wow haters are always talking about "outside game issues". Showing the non objective way. Hyping is over: the game is there and it didn't deliver for most. Period.
And ....How in the world can you ever hate a game?
Just because I suspect you're a shill, doesn't make me a WoW hater, quite the opposte. I like the game, but so much blind fanboism is not healthy. Provided of course you're a fan and not an employee.
There is another type of poster that I've noticed that follows the same pattern of using copy-pasting of posts on threads all around these forums. Gold sellers. I hope you realise that even if you are actually a fan and not a shill, your methods of promoting your favorite game are suspicious at best. Not that this game needs promoting by you, or anybody else.
You're (and I as I'm curious about the new expansion) are playing the most popular game around. Best is a relative term.
No,
I am playing a game where the most people agree on paying to play it. And I am being gently here.
Talking only the EU/US subscription numbers. 4.5 stars.
If it was FREE to play than you would be right. But people have to pay for it and it is still the most played PC game.... by far.
That's a big difference.
I hope you realise that although the best selling game is "The sims", I'm entitled to think that it's not a good game for me and however popular it may be, I will not be convinced to play something I dislike.
You are not winning over anyone by the "It's the most popular thus it's the best game" argument. Yes, it's the most popular because it's a very good game, but not each one of us thinks alike. Thus there are people out there who don't like WoW, or got bored of WoW. They are entitled to look forward to other games, despite WoW becoming increasingly popular over the years. And the alternatives may have their own issues (some of them big ones), but that doesn't mean that they should stop looking for something different due to those issues.
I also don't understand why you try to compare a P2P to a F2P model, as there are clearly different and rely on a different type of addiction.
If everyone was thinking like you, there would be no MMOs produced. Everyone would be playing WoW until the day they die. Do you think this line of thinking is reasonable? WoW is popular now. Eventualy it'll lose its popularity, it's inevitable. By what or by whom, it's still too early to tell.
Bottom line, playing WoW due to lack of good alternatives is not exactly a compliment for the state of WoW now, is it?
Just because I suspect you're a shill, doesn't make me a WoW hater, quite the opposte. I like the game, but so much blind fanboism is not healthy. Provided of course you're a fan and not an employee. There is another type of poster that I've noticed that follows the same pattern of using copy-pasting of posts on threads all around these forums. Gold sellers. I hope you realise that even if you are actually a fan and not a shill, your methods of promoting your favorite game are suspicious at best. Not that this game needs promoting by you, or anybody else.
I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to that other guy above in the posts (the one with the red marks). And I am not even a blind fanboy like Markoros on the War forum.
Markoros says such things like "... and then (milk and honey) I came to the flightmaster and had a nice flight to the rescue of my guildie in War who wanted to do so badly a PQ...."
Actually he (she?) had an animated loading screen in War and you were supposed to think that you sat in a helicopter...while in reality a 2D screen loads the new content.
I thought "My My, that's the first thing since I played pen and paper AD&D that I need to "dream up" some content".
This example and some more of those "milk and honey" posts made me conclude she (he) was a marketing guy. Telling stories of "beautful" and "adventurous" things that happened to me in that War "paradise". The choice of the Disney 'milk and honey) avatar....
Actually telling him(her) she was a viral marketing guy gave me a 3 day suspension. But I am glad this kind of posting lessened.
And this is a big difference between my posts and the "telling the beautiful tale of some adventures" I had in maginificent X. Even before the game gets published sometimes.
How do you think War got its rating system on this site ?
-----------------------
Blizz doesn't need that kind of stuff - as the hate on MMORPG.COM - is living proof of this. And their forums are very alive with lots of moaning. But I think that enough is enough: so much bullshit is being said here about Wow, that at one time or another some just stand up to the trash.
With any luck most WOW migrants will return to their crapfest, WAR will continue to evolve and become the nicely populated, innovative, mature, interesting, complex, and just plain fun game it has the makings of.
Smaller games are better games in the long run. WOW has been junk since BWL was finally conquered, and players have only large populations to look forward to. For those people that see that we moved on long ago, for those that don't it's a "I swear by WOW, best game ever" outlook. Fine Fine Fine, play it, keep it, worship it.
Millions of subs, millions of death knights. That's great, now go play it some more.
As soon as WAR becomes a viable investment I'll be all over it...again.
95% of the gaming population consists of morons, just like these boards.
You're (and I as I'm curious about the new expansion) are playing the most popular game around. Best is a relative term.
No,
I am playing a game where the most people agree on paying to play it. And I am being gently here.
Talking only the EU/US subscription numbers. 4.5 stars.
If it was FREE to play than you would be right. But people have to pay for it and it is still the most played PC game.... by far.
That's a big difference.
I hope you realise that although the best selling game is "The sims", I'm entitled to think that it's not a good game for me and however popular it may be, I will not be convinced to play something I dislike.
You are not winning over anyone by the "It's the most popular thus it's the best game" argument. Yes, it's the most popular because it's a very good game, but not each one of us thinks alike. Thus there are people out there who don't like WoW, or got bored of WoW. They are entitled to look forward to other games, despite WoW becoming increasingly popular over the years. And the alternatives may have their own issues (some of them big ones), but that doesn't mean that they should stop looking for something different due to those issues.
I also don't understand why you try to compare a P2P to a F2P model, as there are clearly different and rely on a different type of addiction.
If everyone was thinking like you, there would be no MMOs produced. Everyone would be playing WoW until the day they die. Do you think this line of thinking is reasonable? WoW is popular now. Eventualy it'll lose its popularity, it's inevitable. By what or by whom, it's still too early to tell.
Bottom line, playing WoW due to lack of good alternatives is not exactly a compliment for the state of WoW now, is it?
First: selling has nothing to do with it. I am talking about subscriptions here (long term subscriptions).
Hype sells games, not subscriptions.
It is popular, but you forget a company has to earn those subscriptions. They don't come from unhappy people. For more than 3 years Wow is number one on Xfire and you know what?
Azrile said he was sad because one day - just for one day - Wow was bypassed by the FTP COD4 a few weeks ago. He was sad, I was glad, because it showed you have to earn those 4.5 M subs (and proved by Xfire) every day.
That one day (servers off line for more than 12 hours) showed just how difficult it is to maintain this record. And this can only be because - like you say - lack of good alternatives.
Question is: didn't Blizz put the standards too high for the competition? I'd say yes, because if you would have followed the game's evolutions (patch 2.3 for example), you would see it just climbs even further away from the competition.
With any luck most WOW migrants will return to their crapfest, WAR will continue to evolve and become the nicely populated, innovative, mature, interesting, complex, and just plain fun game it has the makings of. WAR needs all the players its needs, its a PvP game (so they say) no players no game, the last thing WAR needs is for its ever decreasing population to decrease more as players go back to WOW. So are your comments innovative, mature, complex WAR is none of these things. IMHO Smaller games are better games in the long run. WOW has been junk since BWL was finally conquered, and players have only large populations to look forward to. For those people that see that we moved on long ago, for those that don't it's a "I swear by WOW, best game ever" outlook. Fine Fine Fine, play it, keep it, worship it. Millions of subs, millions of death knights. That's great, now go play it some more. As soon as WAR becomes a viable investment I'll be all over it...again. LOL! 95% of the gaming population consists of morons, just like these boards.
You cant take down a momoth (WoW) with used wet matches (WAR).
Comments
I have read this post several times trying to figure out where you are trying to come from. You say that "real PVP'ers" fight one on one and you go to explain In detail what PVP is all about, one on one.
No where in your post are you saying that you PVP according to your standards, one on one. You always seem to have a team healing you or assisting you in BG's or Arena or open world.
Next time go into your battlefields by your self and then completly dominate the field.
I really don't think you know what you are talking about, so get over yourself, you don't PVP.
I have read this post several times trying to figure out where you are trying to come from. You say that "real PVP'ers" fight one on one and you go to explain In detail what PVP is all about, one on one.
No where in your post are you saying that you PVP according to your standards, one on one. You always seem to have a team healing you or assisting you in BG's or Arena or open world.
Next time go into your battlefields by your self and then completly dominate the field.
I really don't think you know what you are talking about, so get over yourself, you don't PVP.
Heuh? I never even mentioned "one on one".
I even spoke of our fixed team with 2 DPS and a healer.
The problem with you guys is that you don't read the full posts. You read "words" - in this case words that aren't even in the message and ... "bang" you're reacting to a post that never even was written.
When I say "person vs person" combat, I do this on purpose, to let you feel exactly how important it is to "feel" the controls over your character. War doesn't have a "tight" responsive control and is slow and clunky compared to the faster and tight combat controls in Wow.
People speak of PvP and they don't know the exact significance of these words. IF you want to have a RvR game, then it should have the best basic PvP control mechanics in the MMORPG industry.
Never even talked about "one on one". Sorry but WAR failed as a PvP game in the execution of its combat fights and everyone who does Wow Arena can feel the difference in the avatar controls..
I have read this post several times trying to figure out where you are trying to come from. You say that "real PVP'ers" fight one on one and you go to explain In detail what PVP is all about, one on one.
No where in your post are you saying that you PVP according to your standards, one on one. You always seem to have a team healing you or assisting you in BG's or Arena or open world.
Next time go into your battlefields by your self and then completly dominate the field.
I really don't think you know what you are talking about, so get over yourself, you don't PVP.
Heuh? I never even mentioned "one on one".
I even spoke of our fixed team with 2 DPS and a healer.
The problem with you guys is that you don't read the full posts. You read "words" - in this case words that aren't even in the message and ... "bang" you're reacting to a post that never even was written.
When I say "person vs person" combat, I do this on purpose, to let you feel exactly how important it is to "feel" the controls over your character. War doesn't have a "tight" responsive control and is slow and clunky compared to the faster and tight combat controls in Wow.
People speak of PvP and they don't know the exact significance of these words. IF you want to have a RvR game, then it should have the best basic PvP control mechanics in the MMORPG industry.
Never even talked about "one on one". Sorry but WAR failed as a PvP game in the execution of its combat fights and everyone who does Wow Arena can feel the difference in the avatar controls..
Read your first full paragraph, "person vs person".
Be careful how you phrase your concepts. PVP can take on many forms but you chose to take the form of person vs person.
Actually open world PVP and even RVR is usually more centric to your concept than what you put in your post, Arena is more like a tag team wrestling match.
Your post doesn't really talk about other games in its essence, mostly about how well you work as a team.
I have read this post several times trying to figure out where you are trying to come from. You say that "real PVP'ers" fight one on one and you go to explain In detail what PVP is all about, one on one.
No where in your post are you saying that you PVP according to your standards, one on one. You always seem to have a team healing you or assisting you in BG's or Arena or open world.
Next time go into your battlefields by your self and then completly dominate the field.
I really don't think you know what you are talking about, so get over yourself, you don't PVP.
Heuh? I never even mentioned "one on one".
I even spoke of our fixed team with 2 DPS and a healer.
The problem with you guys is that you don't read the full posts. You read "words" - in this case words that aren't even in the message and ... "bang" you're reacting to a post that never even was written.
When I say "person vs person" combat, I do this on purpose, to let you feel exactly how important it is to "feel" the controls over your character. War doesn't have a "tight" responsive control and is slow and clunky compared to the faster and tight combat controls in Wow.
People speak of PvP and they don't know the exact significance of these words. IF you want to have a RvR game, then it should have the best basic PvP control mechanics in the MMORPG industry.
Never even talked about "one on one". Sorry but WAR failed as a PvP game in the execution of its combat fights and everyone who does Wow Arena can feel the difference in the avatar controls..
Read your first full paragraph, "person vs person".
Be careful how you phrase your concepts. PVP can take on many forms but you chose to take the form of person vs person.
Actually open world PVP and even RVR is usually more centric to your concept than what you put in your post, Arena is more like a tag team wrestling match.
By "person vs person" I talked about the concept , of course not the "one on one" restricted action, that was very obvious in my post, I thought.
MMORPG's are still about your character being played in that universe. The PvP game play is just that: YOU control your avatar and you fight other person(s!).
So to have a meaningfull PvP game you need to have full, fluid and unhampered personal control or forget about playing PvP. If I am into an X game and I have to wait 2 seconds for the lag before I can do something against an enemy, you are no longer fighting that person (persons), but you are fighting the.... system and out of synch controls.
Wow's PvP avatar controls are second to none and all those who played the two games can easely agree on that.
Now the RvR concept is a complete different matter: that's the strategical layer above these tactical PvP fights. The idea behind the RvR in War was great and even terrific. The only thing is that if you don't have the best PvP controls (player vs player(s) mechanics), you make the total concept rather meaningless.
After reading your article, I learned that you are a wow pvp noob.
and I dont agree with you on this "thats really very much dependant on gear and not how you play "
my friends and his team hit 1900 rating in blue gears. and got their gladiator title after geared up with pvp gears. I am talking about S2 of course.
I dunno I guess I get sick of arguements or people tossing fanboi/troll etc...
So I guess my reponse is.. its really neat to see how totally different a perspecitve people can have.
LIke:
Some people who play on a high population server (like I did) see awesome RvR and plenty of action and all kinds of open world rvr.
I saw: crappy and limited rvr, no open world rvr.. well some but so little it was closer to none than "a lot' and got bored very quicly. (other than nordenwatch pretty much always had action!!)
Which was odd because even tho I took breaks from DAoC I was still playing it up until 4 months ago.
I'm not sure that I'll ever go back to WAR.
I mean I can understand that gaming is a subjective experience. Some people like the game some won't..
The part that gets me in *ponder* mode is not everything is subjective.
Like when I'd look at 50 something servers.. most of which were low/low or med/low or low/med. Yet another guy that posted here saw them all as "high".
That's not subjective.. it says one thing in text or it says the other. There really isn't a way to see "low" or "med" as "high".
I'd see no open rvr.. then another guy from my server would tell me about this huge keep battle.. that took place at a keep..
I was standing in buying items from the merchant in at the exact time this HUGE battle took place that I never saw.....
Definately not into the "most people I read are planning to resub argument " for WAR. Reading the WAR forums on the vnboards daily it really just reflects how the longer the game goes on the more people tire of it and cancel.
Are people planning on resubbing? Yes, some, for the 1.1 patch which now has become the ever so unwanted "Miracle Patch" which will have to change the game for the better or it's the last time they'll ever resub.
Sure the game pleases people but to say it is not not pleasing a lot of people as well is just ignoring the obvious.
On Azazel server, our Order Alliance has 4-5 Warbands running around capturing, holding BFO's and Keeps. Also holding and defending bridges, High ground, and choke points are happening and the use of scouts are needed for enemy intel. Lately I've been noticing Destruction out smarting us on the battlefield. They will lure us into traps, we've been ambushed by destruction hiding behind trees and rocks out of LOS. In large scale open field battles, they have been using MDPS teams flank and hit us from the rear and taking out our support lines. It has gotten to a point to where our Alliance leaders are on the same vent coordinating battle tactics. And we did attack the MAW with over 200+ over the weekend. It was great even though we failed. One main Destruction guild has over 1000 members alone, once they are mobilized they win.
Open RVR in Warhammer is what makes or breaks the game. The people that leave Warhammer may have not experienced this part of the game. Then they are missing out. WOW doesn't have this type of PVP. I suggest yall move to a bigger active server. Leveling a toon to level 10 and saying it sucks doesn't work in any game. Its all about End game
As with anything first impressions are important. To some extent I can agree that a game shouldn't be judged by the first 10 levels. However, I also think that if you're really bored in the beginning chances are you'll be bored at end game. Themeparks are about the journey, so all levels of the game should be 'fun' to the player.
I really think EA punted on RvR. Imo, scenarios are the bane of the game and should be reconsidered. Every time I walked down to the RvR zones I found myself alone and eventually just battled NPCs.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Still tons of open world PvP on our server (Darklands) with 3-4 warbands running around nightly.
Destruction tried to cap Praag again today, had their zerg out. I took our merry warband and captured the southernmost objectives. We then hid out of sight with one scout in front and positioned ourselves in an arc in the surrounding buildings, trees and rocks using the terrain to our advantage.
The destruction zerg came and their front ranks immediately charged the few people not hiding only to get owned by the arc of firepower we had hidden. Fiery rain vanquished their numbers along with engineer turrets and a sea of arrow and blades. In return, we charged out and the scattered waves of zergy destruction were felled as we pushed forward. This was enough to give us an advantage as we rode in and cleaned up their numbers.
Destruction was demoralised and resorted to defending their only keep left. We fought in it for a good 40minutes to an hour, consolidating our power in the first floor with AOE and builing up our morale abilities, then with on single call we charged upwards into the destruction ranks. Our tanks held aggro on the healers and the rest move past their aoe chokepoint and tank line (collision detection ouch) into the third stairwell and kill the players. In the end whole of Praag had turned from destruction zerg to our hands after quite a few hard fought battles.
balblablablbalablablaba rvr blabablablablablala pvp.
lets go to the pivotal point. they are not the same . RvR lives from pvp, but pvp has no need of RvR.
What is happening with WARHAMMER is that many pvp'ers are finding out that they don't like RvR.
Is that simple.
I am one of them . I like to kill other players in game. to gank, pk, corpse camp and whatever. I do not care about keeps, cities, lakes, control points, sieges, or whatever. I sub on the game to kick ass and chew gum, but since i am 34 and haven't chewed gum since yearly twenties ( i like operational jaws), i'm just there to kick ass.
I dont really give a damn about the consequential pvp aspect. For me the game and it's players die IRL each time i log out . only to be ressurected after I log in.
And i also like all the itemization aspect of wow. to mix match min max AP, resilience, talent builds, decide on trinkets, sockets, pvp rotations etc, and all the theorycraft and metagaming aspect of games like wow....something I find lacking in WARHAMMER.
And like me there are many. We found what that this RvR stuff really doesn't give us the kick we expected. And that's it. It is not that warhammer is a bad game, it is ok, but just not what some of us expected. There are people that like it. there are people that like rap and hip hop also. I hate rap ( and the hip op cultural paradigm) and most trance music. It is just not my cup of tea. At the same time I like jazz and blues. I like pvp but that doesnt mean I have to like RvR.
Is it true that Azrile = ScamMan = Strategy = Coffee = BodyPass = WoW employee ???
Because...
- they all depend on stupid Xfire
- their writing style and propaganda is all the same
- if they were only WoW fanbois, they wouldn't have that much time to write 1341451 posts in WAR and WoW forums
- no one, even most hardcore Microsoft fans would try to defend a company like this if they are not working for them
-----------------------------
Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
No, coffee is not bodypass in my opinion. That being said, Bodypass uses multiple account names to "strengthen" his arguments. If it wasn't for that, I'd say that he was just an avid WoW fan, nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately he's way too "professional" so to speak to be just another fan.
I prefer WAR to WoW anyday.
But, combat responsiveness of WoW is better than current War. However, there are 2 things:
1. WAR's combat responsiveness is much much better (3x better) compared to 2 months ago.
2. It's been only 1+ month since War is released, and WoW was released like 3-4 years ago. WAR will catch it up within 1-2 months, it's very clear. So, I don't think this is really a problem at all.
WAR's problems are not that many. After release, people were whining about server queues. Now they are whining that some servers have low population. The important thing is that, Mythic is acting very quickly to solve any kind of problems.
Some people were questioning the realm balance, and the lack of tanks Order has. 2 new tank classes will be in game within a month. That's in 3 months after release. When TBC came out, WoW didn't even add a new class to the game, yeah Blizz is that lazy and dumb. Instead they tried to milk more money from craptastic faction timesink and anti-lore races which adds nothing to the game mechanics. After 4 years, they are adding a new class to the game, and still struggling with class balances.
In War, class balance is not perfect. But after 1.1 (in a month), I believe WAR will be much more balanced than WoW is after 4 years.
Mythic > Blizzard in development, because they listen to the customers and know how to add fun to their games. Blizzard is rich and always go for solutions to milk more money.
-----------------------------
Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
I left WAR because the support of the game in Europe is very bad. I was not going to pay them two months for them to decide on a server transfer from a server that I started with queues and ended up deserted.
The biggest issue in WAR combat is the lag between your clicking the command and the command happening and you getting feedback about it. The second biggest issue in WAR combat is the players teleporting far from you when you block them for a bit with your body.
Wow, thank you for the compliment.
No, I just want to play the best games around and because I play them all I "apparently" can make up my mind pretty much quicker than most of the folks around here.
I wanted to like WAR - as a miniature WAR player - and it was boring after a few days. Period. Much too cheap, much too underdeveloped and no game play value.
That said: the WOW subscription numbers are the only "honest" numbers around here on these forums.
Because people vote with their subscription money. A LOT more honest than putting "1"s on a free webpage to vote "hate" with a game.
Wow = 4.5 stars the rest is at 0.25 stars. Nothing to do with hyped sales, all to do with long term payments just to play a game.
All other opinions are rather pointless because they represent personal opinions who vary in time and in place quicker than you can pronounce the word "subscription".
----
btw. this is my only account at the moment>... perhaps Wow is being played by 4.5 million times the same person LOL....Keep up the good work guys. Perhaps with the support of you all Wow hate on this site can be made reasonable again.
You're (and I as I'm curious about the new expansion) are playing the most popular game around. Best is a relative term.
I prefer WAR to WoW anyday.
But, combat responsiveness of WoW is better than current War. However, there are 2 things:
1. WAR's combat responsiveness is much much better (3x better) compared to 2 months ago.
2. It's been only 1+ month since War is released, and WoW was released like 3-4 years ago. WAR will catch it up within 1-2 months, it's very clear. So, I don't think this is really a problem at all.
WAR's problems are not that many. After release, people were whining about server queues. Now they are whining that some servers have low population. The important thing is that, Mythic is acting very quickly to solve any kind of problems.
Some people were questioning the realm balance, and the lack of tanks Order has. 2 new tank classes will be in game within a month. That's in 3 months after release. When TBC came out, WoW didn't even add a new class to the game, yeah Blizz is that lazy and dumb. Instead they tried to milk more money from craptastic faction timesink and anti-lore races which adds nothing to the game mechanics. After 4 years, they are adding a new class to the game, and still struggling with class balances.
In War, class balance is not perfect. But after 1.1 (in a month), I believe WAR will be much more balanced than WoW is after 4 years.
Mythic > Blizzard in development, because they listen to the customers and know how to add fun to their games. Blizzard is rich and always go for solutions to milk more money.
You know that's exactly why you hate a game or company and can't evaluate it decently (and this is a Wow forum btw). Just reread the red.
You begin by actually admitting Wow is better but then you come up with "future visions" of the lesser game and bashing on Bliiz. How are they going to "polish" War when the game engine is based on .... 8 years old DAoC? Wow always had "it" from the very beginning.
I am always talking about a game, you the Wow haters are always talking about "outside game issues". Showing the non objective way. Hyping is over: the game is there and it didn't deliver for most. Period.
And ....How in the world can you ever hate a game?
No,
I am playing a game where the most people agree on paying to play it. And I am being gently here.
Talking only the EU/US subscription numbers. 4.5 stars.
If it was FREE to play than you would be right. But people have to pay for it and it is still the most played PC game.... by far.
That's a big difference.
Just because I suspect you're a shill, doesn't make me a WoW hater, quite the opposte. I like the game, but so much blind fanboism is not healthy. Provided of course you're a fan and not an employee.
There is another type of poster that I've noticed that follows the same pattern of using copy-pasting of posts on threads all around these forums. Gold sellers. I hope you realise that even if you are actually a fan and not a shill, your methods of promoting your favorite game are suspicious at best. Not that this game needs promoting by you, or anybody else.
No,
I am playing a game where the most people agree on paying to play it. And I am being gently here.
Talking only the EU/US subscription numbers. 4.5 stars.
If it was FREE to play than you would be right. But people have to pay for it and it is still the most played PC game.... by far.
That's a big difference.
I hope you realise that although the best selling game is "The sims", I'm entitled to think that it's not a good game for me and however popular it may be, I will not be convinced to play something I dislike.
You are not winning over anyone by the "It's the most popular thus it's the best game" argument. Yes, it's the most popular because it's a very good game, but not each one of us thinks alike. Thus there are people out there who don't like WoW, or got bored of WoW. They are entitled to look forward to other games, despite WoW becoming increasingly popular over the years. And the alternatives may have their own issues (some of them big ones), but that doesn't mean that they should stop looking for something different due to those issues.
I also don't understand why you try to compare a P2P to a F2P model, as there are clearly different and rely on a different type of addiction.
If everyone was thinking like you, there would be no MMOs produced. Everyone would be playing WoW until the day they die. Do you think this line of thinking is reasonable? WoW is popular now. Eventualy it'll lose its popularity, it's inevitable. By what or by whom, it's still too early to tell.
Bottom line, playing WoW due to lack of good alternatives is not exactly a compliment for the state of WoW now, is it?
I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to that other guy above in the posts (the one with the red marks). And I am not even a blind fanboy like Markoros on the War forum.
Markoros says such things like "... and then (milk and honey) I came to the flightmaster and had a nice flight to the rescue of my guildie in War who wanted to do so badly a PQ...."
Actually he (she?) had an animated loading screen in War and you were supposed to think that you sat in a helicopter...while in reality a 2D screen loads the new content.
I thought "My My, that's the first thing since I played pen and paper AD&D that I need to "dream up" some content".
This example and some more of those "milk and honey" posts made me conclude she (he) was a marketing guy. Telling stories of "beautful" and "adventurous" things that happened to me in that War "paradise". The choice of the Disney 'milk and honey) avatar....
Actually telling him(her) she was a viral marketing guy gave me a 3 day suspension. But I am glad this kind of posting lessened.
And this is a big difference between my posts and the "telling the beautiful tale of some adventures" I had in maginificent X. Even before the game gets published sometimes.
How do you think War got its rating system on this site ?
-----------------------
Blizz doesn't need that kind of stuff - as the hate on MMORPG.COM - is living proof of this. And their forums are very alive with lots of moaning. But I think that enough is enough: so much bullshit is being said here about Wow, that at one time or another some just stand up to the trash.
With any luck most WOW migrants will return to their crapfest, WAR will continue to evolve and become the nicely populated, innovative, mature, interesting, complex, and just plain fun game it has the makings of.
Smaller games are better games in the long run. WOW has been junk since BWL was finally conquered, and players have only large populations to look forward to. For those people that see that we moved on long ago, for those that don't it's a "I swear by WOW, best game ever" outlook. Fine Fine Fine, play it, keep it, worship it.
Millions of subs, millions of death knights. That's great, now go play it some more.
As soon as WAR becomes a viable investment I'll be all over it...again.
95% of the gaming population consists of morons, just like these boards.
No,
I am playing a game where the most people agree on paying to play it. And I am being gently here.
Talking only the EU/US subscription numbers. 4.5 stars.
If it was FREE to play than you would be right. But people have to pay for it and it is still the most played PC game.... by far.
That's a big difference.
I hope you realise that although the best selling game is "The sims", I'm entitled to think that it's not a good game for me and however popular it may be, I will not be convinced to play something I dislike.
You are not winning over anyone by the "It's the most popular thus it's the best game" argument. Yes, it's the most popular because it's a very good game, but not each one of us thinks alike. Thus there are people out there who don't like WoW, or got bored of WoW. They are entitled to look forward to other games, despite WoW becoming increasingly popular over the years. And the alternatives may have their own issues (some of them big ones), but that doesn't mean that they should stop looking for something different due to those issues.
I also don't understand why you try to compare a P2P to a F2P model, as there are clearly different and rely on a different type of addiction.
If everyone was thinking like you, there would be no MMOs produced. Everyone would be playing WoW until the day they die. Do you think this line of thinking is reasonable? WoW is popular now. Eventualy it'll lose its popularity, it's inevitable. By what or by whom, it's still too early to tell.
Bottom line, playing WoW due to lack of good alternatives is not exactly a compliment for the state of WoW now, is it?
First: selling has nothing to do with it. I am talking about subscriptions here (long term subscriptions).
Hype sells games, not subscriptions.
It is popular, but you forget a company has to earn those subscriptions. They don't come from unhappy people. For more than 3 years Wow is number one on Xfire and you know what?
Azrile said he was sad because one day - just for one day - Wow was bypassed by the FTP COD4 a few weeks ago. He was sad, I was glad, because it showed you have to earn those 4.5 M subs (and proved by Xfire) every day.
That one day (servers off line for more than 12 hours) showed just how difficult it is to maintain this record. And this can only be because - like you say - lack of good alternatives.
Question is: didn't Blizz put the standards too high for the competition? I'd say yes, because if you would have followed the game's evolutions (patch 2.3 for example), you would see it just climbs even further away from the competition.
Is that Blizz fault?
You cant take down a momoth (WoW) with used wet matches (WAR).