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Oversimplification: Warhammer's biggest flaw
//\//\oo
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,767
Please do not misconstrue this as a trolling doomsday post: I am currently subscribed to Warhammer (in fact I purchased 3 months), so I obviously think it's better than most of the MMORPGs out there and wish to see it succeed. I realize that I am merely stating my opinion and NOT FACT, since utility functions vary among individuals and different people might disagree with me on the subject.
The point of this post is to address the problem relating to the simplicity of the gameplay itself especially PvP-related.
Before I engage on a lengthy tirade, I would like to point out a few things Warhammer has done right that warrant it's success: On demand PvP (battlegrounds you can queue from in your tier and many at that), PvP-oriented character advancement, meaningful character development, a good amount of solo and grouping content and a big, immersive world.
While I realize that the latter claims are entirely subjective, it is fact that quite a few successful MMORPGs did not achieve any of the aforementioned upon release, or even in their current states that have been the products of years of embellishment. It is because of those qualities that I will remain a subscriber for a while, but I still have some qualms with the game...
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The gameplay, while definitely more interactive than many games, boils down in most cases to performing the same sequence of abilities/role depending on the composition of the enemy; strategy is trivial at best as there is little meaningful CC aside from knockbacks that can displace the enemy and abilities that function as CC, but with no timing requirements.
There are definitely abilities that can be timed for efficacy, but they are few between the classes and were implemented so that effective CC can only be done with group timing a la vent. While I can see that the lack of CC might have been intended in a largescale PvP game for easier balancing, it really simplifies the role of the individual in a large match to a ridiculous degree when compared to other games.
The tactic system, while great for planning, leaves little to no room for interactivity, since swapping out tactics during combat isn't allowed.
There are also unintended simplifications that occur because of overseen mechanics. A good example would be the witch hunter: The witch hunter functions on a combo point system like the WoW Rogue (only they are called accusations); the more accusations a witch hunter has, the more effective and energy efficient his finisher will be.
The problem is that there is also another mechanic in the game, which gives the witch hunter additional damage (or a very powerful healing debuff) with the execution of the finisher, but does not scale with more points added to the finisher. The result is that the most effective way to play the witchhunter is by "absolution spamming", or the repeated execution of a one point finisher (two button presses).
A case analysis: The Swordmaster
I've taken quite a few characters to their 15-20's, but the highest I've gotten one is 30 and at that point most classes will have received the majority of their abilities; some classes (i.e. the marauder) will receive their class defining abilities at 40, yet most of the complexity involved will still involve the skills obtained from 1-30.
As a swordmaster, my role was to keep guard on a target that was being focus fired (tanking ability available to all tanks that splits damage between you and target), put pressure on the enemy healers/ranged dps and knockback players into lava, or away from healers.
While the class was very interactive due to it's "stance" system (abilities are restricted by the state of your stance, which is in turn modified by your abilities), the core of it was very simple and involved using the same sequence of attacks, which would change depending on the target.
Besides the knockback, Swordmasters can only obtain more active CC through class specialization and even then the CC itself is of a short duration and only usable at most once every 20 seconds (some of it is currently bugged and unreliable to boot..).
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There are definitely classes in WAR that require a certain degree of skill to play like the Warrior Priest/Disciple of Kain, but most of the difficulty isn't due to active strategy, but merely inherent in the role of an active healer and the "requirement" (action points can also be channeled into points used for healing) to use melee abilities to heal. The point remains, however, that there is very little active strategy compared to other games that isn't trivial and merely associated with the role of the class. While the lack of CC is understandable to a degree, there could be other mechanics in the game to compensate for it (i.e. the shield system in Age of Conan) .
I guess I've just played my lot of MMORPGs and am spoiled...
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Comments
am I getting this straight - you want MORE CC in WAR???
Not necessarily: I would have liked to see more reactionary mechanics in the game; whether they had been implemented as CC like in WoW, or something else is kind of irrelevant to me.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Meh, I agree to your observations of the game, and personally I'd also like to see more abilities added to make the PvP more competitive and intrigueing. Not in the lines of CC, personally considering how much dps there is in the game I'd like to see abilities added that are more evasive in nature. And I think that would really make the PvP more worthwhile...
Anyways the game is still young, and as long as veteran players eventually start demanding this I'm sure Mythic will compensate.
For instance CC has always been a giant part of wow since the beginning, but never as much as it is now. In the games early life before resilience getting two shotted or stun-locked to dead if you remember was the norm. The game did have more CC even at its early stages then WAR, but they really only gave a player a few seconds of control, but after that it was back to two to three hits finishing the match up.
Hell back in the day I was a Destro lock and I pretty much played like Drakedog, and as long as a got the seduce on a player, they were good as dead with my deathcoil/imm/shadowbolt/conflag combo.
Anyways, WAR is still young, and just about everyone has noticed what you're mentioning here. Once Mythic can balance the game a bit we people should start asking them to make the game's PvP more riviting. And...we'll see what happens from there on...
I agree with the OP. The limited CC is surely one aspect which makes combat dull and simplistic. Kinda dissapointing.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
The problem with CC is that it becomes a nobrainer and an annoyance once there is a battle between more than 10 vs 10. At the normal scale a WoW fight happens, the CC is strategically interesting and still can be countered. It is thrilling and challenging.
But in a 30 vs 30 the CC evolves into a 100% stopping power for certain classes which forces these classes to play in a less effective way than they would like. For example Rogues in WoW in Alteracvalley are nearly excluded in large scale battles and are forced to wander around picking off single targets.
In WoW this is no problem because you can win an alterac valley by killing more than the opponent. In Warhammer though the task of Witchhunters/Witchelves is to kill healers. This task is impossible in the standard zerg, due to CC.
On the other hand a huge Zerg could be stopped or impeded by more CC and thus the strategy of Zerg vs Zerg could be something else than just who has the greater numbers.
Like I said before, stuff can be added, just not right now. And they're eventually going to have to, it's just a process an MMO always has to take in order to become more riviting.