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Kinda funny story.
silveradond
Member Posts: 40
Today i logged in after about a week, maybe 2 of not playing. (I quit at 27 because i hate the scenario gring)
I did one scenario, and as usual hated it, even tho it was a win.
I zone out, and ask, "any open rvr goin on"? Wait 3 minutes, repeat, waited another 3 mins, and asked again. At this point im about to log out, but decide... im gonna try something different.
In /1 i say, anybody here really sick of scenarios?, YES YES YES ZOMG YES UGH I HATE THEM etc etc.
I proceed to invite all the scenario haters to an open warband, to go find some zerg vs zerg rvr. Well pretty soon, i had invited a full warband. I had a guy form a second warband, we had almost 2 full warbands, and took a keep, almost took both in the zone.
Keep in mind we were order, so maybe the lower pop realm.
I lol'd alot thinking about how asking for people to join, and giving them the reason that "scenarios suck" made such a difference.
I suggest you try it for yourself if your looking for open rvr.. by god it worked once for me.
Comments
Yeah a lot of people do not understand that probably a majority of people grinding scenarios would prefer to do something else. But at the same time whenever they look for RvR to alleviate this they get a blank responses like this, because well there isn't any going on. Most people sit around and hope and never see it.
Unfortunately your last statements is also insightful. It worked once. It may work twice or even 10 times. But they will get as sick of ORvR as they do of scenarios. Because the ORvR campaign is pointless and lacks any strategy. In fact it actively squashes the use of strategy. The keeps are fun for a bit but after a while you start thinking beyond them and wanting to actiually do the next "thing" its at this point you realize the RvR is completely hollow. And in fact the best thing to do is take a keep and abandon it so that you can retake it as soon as possible. Then you quit the game because the campaign and therefore the RvR is retarded..
You just identified the true reason why RvR is seen as a problem with this game. It has nothing to do with the design, and everything to do with the people. Everyone wants teamplay and organization to just magically happen, to fall in their lap just by wanting it. Mythic can't program a button to get people to act though, thats up to the players. The desire is there, but no one wants to step forward and do it.
Its probably just the world we live in, with politics and society what it is, people are looking for handouts. Gone are the days of action and responsibility. Just clowns looking to jump on some sort of e-welfare train of entertainment handholding.
The most desperately needed player type in this game... is the leader. Kudos to the OP for actually taking on that role.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
There is more to it than that.
It is not necessary that everyone or even a lot of people have the initiative to start RvR groups. As long as their is a continuous critical mass around such that the people who have very little initiative can find open warbands.
I was organizing PvP warbands right from the get go. But the game does not keep the people with initiative. In fact the people who have enough initiative to do ORvR regularly are also the ones who stop doing RvR the soonest, because the objectives are crap.
The objectives are fine for a little bit of casual fun, but for people with initiative who want to push the whole campaign and be challenged and have fun, you start to realize somewhere is T3 that there is no meat on the bone.
The problem is not that most people lack initiative. That is true of PvE too. A majority of people do not want to be a the group leader and recruit a group for an instance. The problem is that RvR does not keep anyone around even the people who initially persued it.
That was an interesting read OP and something which I can relate to with my experience of the game.
Although I blame the design of the game for the lack of ORvR (imo scenarios should never have been put in) there is also something about the odd anti-social community that predominates WAR. Like someone said, a lot of people lack initiative or simply do not care to put any effort in as long as they are getting instant gratification in the easiest possible fashion, ie scenarios, they just cbf helping organise something and leave it for someone else.
O_o o_O
The scenarios is just one aspect of how badly pants on head retarded the entire RvR campaign is. You can't cap a zone in T4 without doing scenarios.
That means people have to actually reduce the number of people striving for conflict in a zone to capture that zone. And since capturing BFO in a zone is never sufficient for capping a zone staying in the RvR lake is stupid, it will never capture that zone. Also since you need the trickle up affect from haivng T3 that bleeds even more people out of the T4 zone. A lot of people leave the warband and play on a T3 alt so that they can actually turn the T4 zone. Lastly you also have to grind PvE PQ outside the zone.
There are literally 3 different mechanics taking people out of the RvR lakes. Scenarios is only one of them. And not only are scenarios more rewarding in XP and renown but they are actually required. Full on required for flipping a zone. Scenarios are just a symptom of the problem. The real problem is their entire design is FUBAR. Every single part of the RvR design encourages people to not be in the RvR lakes. It is stunningly incompetent.
The whole design is so incredibly stupid and at odds with itself that I am still slack jawed in amazement 2 months later. I can't beleive professionals with experience making an RvR game designed this game. It boggles my mind.
I think the OP hit it on the head. I commented on it in another thread but the problem with WAR isn't WAR but the player base. They came looking for RVR open PVP and instead of playing the game and having fun, they made a job out of it by grinding scenarios for "efficiency" even though it made them hate the game.
Most MMO players are content to play the game as a solo desktop game except when the game play requires them to group to achieve something desirable. In these cases they typically passively wait for "someone else" to organize the guild, party, raid, whatever that they will then happily join but never themselves create. This attitude may suffice in a PVE oriented grind game like WoW (no offense, I love it) but is a critical blow to a game like WAR which is built around the concept of player vs. player organized warfare.
If people wan't WAR to live up to their expectations they need to "Act as If":
1. Don't que scenarios
2. Head out to the RVR areas or PQs
3. If nothing is going on, invite some people and start something.
Personally I am enjoying WAR as a nice variation to my WoW play. I think my Black Orc is a gorgeous Big Green Killin' Machine and make it a point to go looking for trouble. If I can trade blows all day in world PVP, as "inefficient" as it might be then I don't give two cents about leveling etc. I am having fun right where I am out doing what I wanted to do when I bought the game.
This doesn't make sense. If you refuse to queue up for scenarios you lose VP. That is officially stated by Mythic. When the other side queues up for a scenario and you do not you automatically forfeit any VP that would have accrued.
So I am sorry but you are wrong. WAR does in fact force people who want to RvR to do scenarios. If you are doing RvR we must assume you want to advance the campaign. If you do not queue up for scenarios you will lose Victory Points and therefore never advance the campaign.
So I am sorry but yes the problem is with WAR. Perhaps the problem is also with the playerbase, but using your logic you must conclude that there is also a problem with WAR itself when you consider the mechanics of the game. These mechancis are part of the official pathc notes if you do not believe me.
Going out and only doing RvR is simply not an answer. Unless of course you want to lose the RvR campaign. Then by all means never queue for a scenario and watch your zone control bar go down by large chunks.
Fine with me, as long as there is enjoyment involved.
Losing the rvr campaign sounds more enjoyable to me, then constantly grinding scenarios, and NEITHER SIDE advancing the campaign.
Mythic had a very large hand in how the anti-social nature of this game plays out. Consider the tools they gave players and it isn't hard to understand why people are so stand offish and solo most of the time.
To me it just seems that every single choice Mythic made was designed to keep players from having to communicate to do anything and even went so far as to make it hard or impossible to do so. In essence the game is designed to be played without ever speaking to another living soul. You can do scenarios, public quests, warbands and just about anything else without ever asking to join or talking to anyone. Just click a button and see what open groups are around. If nothing is there, just que a scenario or do some quests and wait until something presents itself. It is kind of a circular problem between game design and players that keeps feeding on itself.
If a strong community does develop on a server it will be despite the methods put in place by Mythic.
Fine with me, as long as there is enjoyment involved.
Losing the rvr campaign sounds more enjoyable to me, then constantly grinding scenarios, and NEITHER SIDE advancing the campaign.
Yeah it is more fun, well at least I thought it was. But what are you gonna do when the other side decides they need to grind PQs or Scenarios and you want to RvR? Take the BFOs? What do they care, that is the only part where you actually know the "score" is. You might as well leave that part for last.
As a number of people have already figured out, the easiest way to defend a zone is to not show up. In T3 and especially in T4 you will find that often the other side just plain disappears from a zone.
At any rate, this god forsaken game has become entirely too frustrating to do ANYTHING involving a group. Outside of scenarios.
While I agree on the issue that the group activity is often misrepresented by the system, there is a little slash command, that sadly too few seem know about: /partynote *note*. It lets you set a note under your group info in the open group ui, where you can state what you are actually doing, what youwant to do, what you had for lunch or whatever.
While I agree on the issue that the group activity is often misrepresented by the system, there is a little slash command, that sadly too few seem know about: /partynote *note*. It lets you set a note under your group info in the open group ui, where you can state what you are actually doing, what youwant to do, what you had for lunch or whatever.
Thank you very much for that. It would be a great addition to the open group tool if it was put in the interface. Still I can combine that with the check box that lets you start an open group by yourself to do some form of LFG tool. That should help.
Where did you find that command if I might ask? Since I'm asking in a public forum I'm betting it will be on page one of the manuel, highlighted in 72 point glow in the dark font with circles and arrows one each one...
One of my guild officers was trying to add notes to each each character in the ingame guild rooster so you could see whom each character belongs to and other stuff. She started going through all the slash commands, that are availalbe (the one she was looking for, exists, but does not seem to work atm) and I skimmed them as well.
You can get a list of all slash commands by typing /help. This will however give you a skewed list, since the chat window can not display them all at once (spam prevention?). So you need specify by adding a letter/letters or word to the command. Type /help guild and it will display all commands that involve this word, for example.
According to this thread, the command is mentioned in one of the loading screen tips. I don't remember seeing that one myself, though.
There needs to be more glow in the dark font in manuals, if I may say so.
Thanks again I'll dig through those this week sometime.
Somehow I always see the same 4-5 loading screen tips about killing your enemy and forming a warband. The funny thing is one of them is the "alway look at the loading screen tips for helpful hints" and I laugh.