I'm really not sure what keeps people continuing to waste their energy hating WoW. Jealousy is the only reason I can imagine anymore.
I'm going to waste some energy on this.
Why would we be "jealous"? We could easily subscribe to WoW. What would jealousy have to do with it? We aren't stuck with any other MMOs. And all the doomsayers are people who have played WoW for a great length of time.
We don't hate WoW for no reason. We hate it because Blizzard could've made it better, but we have folks such as yourself that are pleased with its lackluster state and would invest in this POS that is half of the content they gave in TBC.
Its people like yourself who promote Blizzard's degrading standards in being their effective, but sorry attempts at monopolizing our wallets instead of a decent company.
Read someone saying WoW has the longest server downs and maitainance and all that, thats just bullshit? WoW is down every Wednesday from like 5 to 11. So what? Who plays at 5am in the morning? And the most that plays WoW early and got no lives gets up after 11 anyway.
The downtime of the servers its ridicilously low for the millions of people that play it.
I've played several games that has been so much suckier than Blizzard on this, and one of them is the european WAR team GOA. Omg, theres something that needs work. Sure I did only play the first week or so, but cmon. It was a catastrofy and so is many other games, especially the f2p that dont even have a 1000 players and they cant handle it.
1. All and I do mean ALL MMO's experience levels of downtime. The more popular = more chances of downtime. If ANY of you complaining about this knew anything about server loads you might understand this a bit more.
Now to take this argument a bit further and say "Blizz has millions to make sure this is limited or erased" is also very ignorant. I don't care how much money you have your going to hit this issue nuff said.
2. YES I was a former WOW player and was hooked in for some time as well as a lot of the doomsayers here. The problem is that in the beginning the game was a very refreshing blast with Blizz on character balances quite often and very diligent to assist any changes that didn't go through smoothly. The hype for BC was tremendous and with such a success with the original it was a very high bar to jump over. They succeeded about 1/2 way and I would have to agree with that.
Once you got past getting to 70 and stuck into the doldrum of faction grinding and keys for harder SAME albeit harder dungeons for a few +loots then BC quickly lost its luster. If you were fortunate enough to be apart of a sociable and optimistic guild who helped you feel apart of a greater thing and developed more fun with the BC kudos!
Not all are so lucky and have taken their MMO playing time elsewhere. If your not having fun then why stay right? Certainly that isn't HATING on WOW.
3. For my 2 cents as the OP is encouraging me to do, I am not very optimistic about this new xpac. I won't dare say it looks more of the same but rather a few more sparklers and bottle rockets.
The trouble I foresee is being limited to actually SEEING the additional endgame dungeons. Whereas in the original areas the 40mans were really geared towards those who could get in a successful well organized guild this new xpac continues this trend with maybe not as many but still the organization is key.
Guilds with low drama, great organization, and competent responsible players are difficult to find but if you can get in one I imagine you will enjoy this xpac for 6 months give or take a month.
I myself thought to at least try the DK and see if it could amount to at least another "type" of experience where the rinse repeat cycles are fewer and there is another story to be told within this realm. Guess I'll keep a close eye on the forums for details on pro's con's.
In any event GL to all of you attempting on day one to play and best wishes it turns out all of what you hope it to be and more!
I'm really not sure what keeps people continuing to waste their energy hating WoW. Jealousy is the only reason I can imagine anymore.
I'm going to waste some energy on this.
Why would we be "jealous"? We could easily subscribe to WoW. What would jealousy have to do with it? We aren't stuck with any other MMOs. And all the doomsayers are people who have played WoW for a great length of time.
You're jealous because whatever game you might be playing doesn't even come close to WoW's popularity, so no other game developer can even begin to approach Blizzard's resources. As a Starcraft and Diablo fan, I see that as boding well for those games in addition to the massive amont of resources blizzard can pour into WoW. Lets face it, nothing is going to topple WoW except another Blizzard MMO.
The Doomsayers have been consistently wrong for years. WoWs subs keep going up, and in less than three hours, WOTLK is going to sell more boxes than AoC and WAR combined have sold a core product in the last five months. Doomsayers are just angry that they can't convince other people to not like the game that they don't like.
We don't hate WoW for no reason. We hate it because Blizzard could've made it better, but we have folks such as yourself that are pleased with its lackluster state and would invest in this POS that is half of the content they gave in TBC.
I think you are assuming that I play WoW. That aside for the moment, there's no reason to hate something because Blizzard "could have made it better". If that's really true, then why hasn't ANY game developer in FOUR YEARS put out an MMO that exceeds WoW on all fronts? We seem to get overhyped games like AoC and Vanguard that not only fail out of the box, but whose lead developers leave the game after less than four months. WAR is an okay game, but its subs are dropping already. Why is anyone's guess, but lets face it, Mythic really didn't bring anything to the table that just blew people away. Where are player cities and housing? Intricate crafting? Vehicles that go beyond "mounts"? There are so many more things that ANY developer could implement, but they don't. Your discontent would be better served aimed at the developers who refuse to take a risk and continue to hash out the same old crap again and again.
Its people like yourself who promote Blizzard's degrading standards in being their effective, but sorry attempts at monopolizing our wallets instead of a decent company.
I like Blizzard games and I always have since I discovered Warcraft 2. Whatever you think of WoW, you can't doubt the awesomeness of the Starcraft and the Diablo series. You want to blame the players, but it's really the game companies that are to blame. Give me Star Wars Galaxies before the combat upgrade, and I'll pay for six months up front to get that experience back.
Hopefully soon, I'll be a part of the Jumpgate Evolution Beta, or if not that, playing the game sometime next year. I'm just as sick of the same old thing as anyone, but I'm also sick of the constant whining and gnashing of teeth at WoW.
I don't see why all the WoW haters are whining about the stability issues the game is suffering from, this is common with major content changes. Now if this persists a few months from now then id be complaining about it too. While i am excited about exploring the new content my major issue is that it offers nothing new for end game.
One new BG...yay, wintergrasp which will inevitably just turn into another halaa....yay More pvp focused on arena...yay. I think blizzard is pretty good at adapting and evolving their pve content but they have no clue on how to give us real pvp. I'm sorry but there is no "War" in Warcraft. If arena is going to be this expansion poor excuse for pvp once again then i just hope this game will tide me over till a few more people reach end game in Warhammer.
Blizzard expansions never really feel like an expansion to me but more of a greedy developer hitting the reset button on the time sink to force us to grind again. What i want is New content, give me housing! boats! a War! that is new content in my mind not just more instances, bgs and arenas to grind for the third time.
If we're lucky, the launch will go horribly and then WOW gamers will be forced to move to a game that requires thought and intuitivemess.
If we're lucky, the mmorpg.com server will crash and posters will be forced to move to a site that requires thought and intuitiveness....and spellcheck.
I'm really not sure what keeps people continuing to waste their energy hating WoW. Jealousy is the only reason I can imagine anymore.
I'm going to waste some energy on this.
Why would we be "jealous"? We could easily subscribe to WoW. What would jealousy have to do with it? We aren't stuck with any other MMOs. And all the doomsayers are people who have played WoW for a great length of time.
You're jealous because whatever game you might be playing doesn't even come close to WoW's popularity, so no other game developer can even begin to approach Blizzard's resources. As a Starcraft and Diablo fan, I see that as boding well for those games in addition to the massive amont of resources blizzard can pour into WoW. Lets face it, nothing is going to topple WoW except another Blizzard MMO.
The Doomsayers have been consistently wrong for years. WoWs subs keep going up, and in less than three hours, WOTLK is going to sell more boxes than AoC and WAR combined have sold a core product in the last five months. Doomsayers are just angry that they can't convince other people to not like the game that they don't like.
I fail to see the logic put behind your assumption that argos5 has jealousy at all, let alone to WoW's popularity. Just because someone doesn't like a product doesn't necessarily mean it can be attributed to jealousy. As for your point of Blizzard having massive resources, this is true yet the belief that no other developer could make something equally entertaining is a trait of close-mindedness. Who knows what will happen in 5 years or 10? I'm not saying WoW is doomed, but as any gameplayer can tell you, there comes a time when you just move on to something else whether it's due to the game itself or other reasons.
Yes, WoW subs keep going up. A decade from now, the same thing could be said of a game as of yet undeveloped. Who really knows? Yes, WotLK will outsell AoC and WAR, if not simply because WoW has been around longer and has a greater number of subscribers who want to check out the new content. Does it mean that AoC and/or WAR are bad games because less people are playing? No, it just means there are less people playing because those products have not been available to the public in comparison to WoW.
We don't hate WoW for no reason. We hate it because Blizzard could've made it better, but we have folks such as yourself that are pleased with its lackluster state and would invest in this POS that is half of the content they gave in TBC.
I think you are assuming that I play WoW. That aside for the moment, there's no reason to hate something because Blizzard "could have made it better". If that's really true, then why hasn't ANY game developer in FOUR YEARS put out an MMO that exceeds WoW on all fronts? We seem to get overhyped games like AoC and Vanguard that not only fail out of the box, but whose lead developers leave the game after less than four months. WAR is an okay game, but its subs are dropping already. Why is anyone's guess, but lets face it, Mythic really didn't bring anything to the table that just blew people away. Where are player cities and housing? Intricate crafting? Vehicles that go beyond "mounts"? There are so many more things that ANY developer could implement, but they don't. Your discontent would be better served aimed at the developers who refuse to take a risk and continue to hash out the same old crap again and again.
People can dislike the game for whatever reason they choose, hence the term "opinion". For example, I gave up WoW last year because it felt less fun as the days went by and merely a grindfest for better gear to run higher instances. Does this mean I think WoW sucks? No, it just means I lost interest in the WoW experience. I'm into WAR at the moment, and while it shares many common details with WoW, no doubt the time will come when there is no new content available and it becomes repetitive and either I await an expansion, re-roll and do it all over again, or just stop playing. That's the benefit of choice.
Its people like yourself who promote Blizzard's degrading standards in being their effective, but sorry attempts at monopolizing our wallets instead of a decent company.
I like Blizzard games and I always have since I discovered Warcraft 2. Whatever you think of WoW, you can't doubt the awesomeness of the Starcraft and the Diablo series. You want to blame the players, but it's really the game companies that are to blame. Give me Star Wars Galaxies before the combat upgrade, and I'll pay for six months up front to get that experience back.
Hopefully soon, I'll be a part of the Jumpgate Evolution Beta, or if not that, playing the game sometime next year. I'm just as sick of the same old thing as anyone, but I'm also sick of the constant whining and gnashing of teeth at WoW.
There are many people in the world who do not share your enthusiasm for either the Starcraft or Diablo series, let alone WoW. Simply stating your opinion that you think they are awesome does not suddenly mean it is law and anyone else who disagrees is wrong. I'm glad you enjoy those series. I enjoyed them at one point in time as well.
You may not like people having negative opinions of WoW, or at least voicing them here or other places but that is the beauty of the internet. You either have to accept that not everyone is going to enjoy WoW or stop reading comments.
While WoW dying is an exageration, a lot of people from vanilla WoW have left and you have to be foolish if you think otherwise.
Funny anecdotal observation i have found lately is that back when WoW first came out when i talked with other players they all had a lot of mmo experience from other games. Whether it was EQ, UO CoH whatever. Now a days when i talk to other WoW players it is there first mmo. i think a lot of the games success stems from word of mouth and heavy marketing, something that other mmos are lacking unless you keep up on them.
While WoW dying is an exageration, a lot of people from vanilla WoW have left and you have to be foolish if you think otherwise.
What is it with people constantly lamenting older versions of MMO's. Vanilla WoW NEEDED to expand, it was getting stale and boring. 40 man raids were a ridiculous concept from a logistics point of view, and were a headache even for the most organised Raid Guilds.
I'm really looking forward to the new content. I've been playing wow off and on since a couple months after vanilla release. While I can't say it's held my attention completely for these past few years it's always been an entertaining game to plug in and go. While I understand other MMOs may provide certain aspects that are better for some people, the primary interest for me is End game raiding. Now I wasn't fortunate to experience what passed for end game in the previous MMOs I played, mostly due to a lack of commitment. But from the first time I set foot into MC and saw the 2 Giants standing by the bridge I was hooked on the epic aspect of the wow raiding world. Every boss fight feels incredibly important in your first encounter, and every wipe gave me more incentive to take down the enemy. The lack of a real punishment for dying other than resetting the fight and fixing your gear made the whole raid aspect doable and smooth. Now with the introduction of 10-man dungeons, me and my real life friends can get together as a group and do these epic, story-driven events and see content that previously had been restricted to the socialites of the world (of warcraft).
To those griping about server stability, it's an unfortunate aspect of playing an online game. We are always at the will of the server, if it's not there we aren't either. I can't rightly remember the server issues with BC but I remember they were there too, it'll get better. If you can't handle being governed by something you have no control over, then I would strongly suggest you stick to single player games. Great thing about being a gamer is that in this day and age, we have enough choices to make a lot of people happy. So find your happy place !
And to those that hate wow, not really anything you can do about it but put inflamatory posts in comments and on message boards. You are welcome to your opinion, but don't get defensive if the people who enjoy the game stick up for it.
Okay, I'm not going to say much or use another color this time because it's quickly going to turn into a rainbow that no one will want to approach. Just a few points to make:
1. The assumption of jealously is the only reason I can think of that anyone would care enough into pouring energy against WoW. It's just a game, but it's holding a disproportionate share of the market, and without that market, other companies can't be sure of thier own financial success.
2. I think another developer very well COULD make a game better than WoW. The question is: Why haven't they? SWG before the combat upgrade was better than WoW in my opinion. For some reason, developers keep getting the same stuff wrong over and over again when they make the attempt.
3. Everyone can dislike a game. But why waste the energy attacking it? Opinions are fine, but who really cares how much some people hate WoW? Certainly not Blizzard and their millions of subscribers.
4. I don't care about people having negative opinions about WoW. People can have whatever opinions they want. It would just be nice if we could consolidate that hatred into its own forum, such as the Vet Refuge for former SWG players. I think the announcement of a new expansion of ANY game should be a place where fans can gather and talk about their experiences, ask questions, and look forward to more. Simply put, if you want to hate on WoW, there are better places for it, though I think hating on a game is a waste of energy and time.
No where did I say that my opinion was law. However if you don't care for the Starcraft and Diablo series of games (assuming you don't hate RTS and RPG games), there is something really wrong with you.
2. I think another developer very well COULD make a game better than WoW. The question is: Why haven't they? SWG before the combat upgrade was better than WoW in my opinion. For some reason, developers keep getting the same stuff wrong over and over again when they make the attempt.
Holy crap did you just say SWG before CU was better than WOW?!?!?
Okay...I'm going to just slowly take steps back out of the room. I would be hard pressed to actually hear an argument where that model was an excellent basis for MMO's.
SWG sucked years out of my life NOT because it was a great MMO but 1. it was my first (other choices were EQ and AC at the time) and 2. I had alot of friends there.
The game was pointless, pvp was a joke, jedi was a ploy, classes remained unbalanced for the entire duration of the game (/cough TK cough cough), and where else can you wield a weapon and become instant helpless after spamming a few specials without doctor buffs?!?!?
Please tell me you were kidding about SWG and that I just didn't get it because of my immediate scarred emotional response when I saw SWG in your sentence.
I played the beta for about a week and enjoyed it for what it was, however, it didn't make me excited for its release.
1) There really isn't anything in it for brand new players unless someone changed the minimum level requirement on an older character that opens up Death Knight playability. That being said, anyone can spend a couple weeks on a new character and meet that requirement in no time :P (Madness?! This is WOW!!)
2) You get to play as a Death Knight starting at level 55 and you will likely complete the new DK's area around 57.5 (probably a few hours), then grind or do Plagueland quests to meet the requirements to enter BC. Then you get to do all the old crap you have been doing for the last year but only after losing your awesome DK starting armor and turning into a colorful version of Bozo the Death Knight. THEN you can quest and grind to be able to adventure on Northrend. Sure, you can venture to Northrend earlier but good luck with that.
3) Nothrend is cool, as are the changes made to the cities with new ports and such for transportation (I especially liked the Stormwind one). Blizzard has always done a good job with snowy areas, imho, and the addition of new snow flurries, dynamic shadows and, possibly, better graphics/textures (or it could just be an illusion created from the new shadows and general better art) really does make the game look nicer. The new continent seems a little "tight" in some parts though. I think they will feel that way to a lot of people at first, too.
Some of the new parts of Northrend look especially nice and the attention to detail is very good. I personally liked Nagrand's design and many areas of Northrend thrilled me as much as it did at first impression.
4) New spells and abilities? Yeah definitely cool. Who couldn't love being able to dual-wield two-handed swords? Now I just need to find out where the three-handed swords drop...
I think most people will love the expansion but it doesn't offer enough new content for me. Perhaps a second Hero class would have helped...Fun is fun, I wish the best to those breaking down the virtual gates!
2. I think another developer very well COULD make a game better than WoW. The question is: Why haven't they? SWG before the combat upgrade was better than WoW in my opinion. For some reason, developers keep getting the same stuff wrong over and over again when they make the attempt.
Holy crap did you just say SWG before CU was better than WOW?!?!?
Okay...I'm going to just slowly take steps back out of the room. I would be hard pressed to actually hear an argument where that model was an excellent basis for MMO's.
SWG sucked years out of my life NOT because it was a great MMO but 1. it was my first (other choices were EQ and AC at the time) and 2. I had alot of friends there.
The game was pointless, pvp was a joke, jedi was a ploy, classes remained unbalanced for the entire duration of the game (/cough TK cough cough), and where else can you wield a weapon and become instant helpless after spamming a few specials without doctor buffs?!?!?
Please tell me you were kidding about SWG and that I just didn't get it because of my immediate scarred emotional response when I saw SWG in your sentence.
-Q
Actually, SWG pre-NGE was a pretty good game. A player had far more options in that game than in Wow, the economy was player driven, not the ridiculous loot based in Wow. You had a pretty good housing design, a lot of places to explore. Granted it had some balance issues and had a far higher learning curve, but I think if SOE had fixed it, instead of changing it, they could have at least competed with Wow for the more intelligent gamer who wanted more than Wow had to offer.
Originally posted by Serulith Not really excited about this one. I dont hate WoW, i just dont find it as interesting as it once was. WoW was at its peak before TBC was released, it was so fun back then. TBC and WotLK just dont deliver what expansions should, at least not fot me. Im into Lotro now. Sure it doesnt have 11 million subs, but a MMO doesnt need 11 million subs to be a success or fun.
This pretty much sums it up for me as well. WoW/TBC just started feeling very "tired" to me. Bored of TBC last spring, I tried LotRO on a 14-day free trial and found I liked it much more than WoW. LotRO seemed more casual player friendly (imo), had an actual storyline to follow, offered instance/group content that felt like less of a chore to complete, provides a better LFG system, and overall has a more realistic feel to it: no silly gnome flying machines, no absurdly gigantic weapons, no garish, neon armors, etc.
WoW is a clever and effective game, I will be the first to admit, and I had a lot of fun playing it, but it is a game that has just -- for me -- run its course.
Please tell me you were kidding about SWG and that I just didn't get it because of my immediate scarred emotional response when I saw SWG in your sentence.
SWG was my second MMO. My first was the original Jumpgate.
The basis for SWG was solid. The developers and SOE were not. They had the basis for a great game that kept me coming back:
1. A truly open world (or worlds)
2. Player cities and housing that could be placed almost anywhere in the game world
3. Intricate crafting that was time consuming and actually mattered
4. Built-in need to interact with other people (Doctors and entertainers for wounds/buffs)
That's not to say the game was perfect or that it didn't have problems. It did. But there was potential there for something great that SOE completely passed up. And then with the NGE, they destroyed the game for good.
My point was, however, that game companies clearly have the ability and the means to develop games that are superior to WoW, but for some reason, they don't. People have high expectations for new MMOs.
Frankly, I'm not going to play any new MMO that fails to include player housing/cities, intricate crafting systems, and many features for guilds.
I feel like there are so many good ideas out there spread across many different games that it really wouldn't take too much thought to compile all these good things into a single game and really give the more established MMOs a run for their money.
My point was, however, that game companies clearly have the ability and the means to develop games that are superior to WoW, but for some reason, they don't. People have high expectations for new MMOs. Frankly, I'm not going to play any new MMO that fails to include player housing/cities, intricate crafting systems, and many features for guilds. I feel like there are so many good ideas out there spread across many different games that it really wouldn't take too much thought to compile all these good things into a single game and really give the more established MMOs a run for their money. But alas...
I'd like to say that wasting my time responding to you is not so much a waste, as it is a means of passing time until the next great MMO comes along.
But to your point. No, no development company has the funding to be superior to WoW. Why? Because if you watched the trends nowadays, most if not all developers are absorbed into larger companies which inevitably dictate the ebb and flow of some mass chunk of their development.
If you notice, most if not all the MMOs after EQ's release then WoW's release, have been some sort of clone in WoW's style and/or features and/or gameplay. Because investors feel overwhelmed by WoW's success and presence, that their mentality is to duplicate more than innovate in order to pull some of those subscribers away.
The only company I recognize that has not followed this rubric is CCP's EVE-Online. Besides, the age of Korean MMOs are fading. European MMOs are having some difficulty. And WoW overshadows all!
For as long as new MMOs "try" to innovate, Blizzard has the potential to take those innovative parts and incorporate it into their own design, thus depriving other companies of revenues to develop things further. Blizzard suffocates the MMO scene so much that investors are afraid--- and in this messed up economy where businesses are closing left-and-right, I doubt we'll see more MMOs on a grand scale like WoW, besides the ones that are backed by investors and name-brands (basically the MMOs that are announced so far).
My point was, however, that game companies clearly have the ability and the means to develop games that are superior to WoW, but for some reason, they don't. People have high expectations for new MMOs. Frankly, I'm not going to play any new MMO that fails to include player housing/cities, intricate crafting systems, and many features for guilds. I feel like there are so many good ideas out there spread across many different games that it really wouldn't take too much thought to compile all these good things into a single game and really give the more established MMOs a run for their money. But alas...
I'd like to say that wasting my time responding to you is not so much a waste, as it is a means of passing time until the next great MMO comes along.
But to your point. No, no development company has the funding to be superior to WoW. Why? Because if you watched the trends nowadays, most if not all developers are absorbed into larger companies which inevitably dictate the ebb and flow of some mass chunk of their development.
If you notice, most if not all the MMOs after EQ's release then WoW's release, have been some sort of clone in WoW's style and/or features and/or gameplay. Because investors feel overwhelmed by WoW's success and presence, that their mentality is to duplicate more than innovate in order to pull some of those subscribers away.
The only company I recognize that has not followed this rubric is CCP's EVE-Online. Besides, the age of Korean MMOs are fading. European MMOs are having some difficulty. And WoW overshadows all!
For as long as new MMOs "try" to innovate, Blizzard has the potential to take those innovative parts and incorporate it into their own design, thus depriving other companies of revenues to develop things further. Blizzard suffocates the MMO scene so much that investors are afraid--- and in this messed up economy where businesses are closing left-and-right, I doubt we'll see more MMOs on a grand scale like WoW, besides the ones that are backed by investors and name-brands (basically the MMOs that are announced so far).
Truth... Also, note that most new mmo's are rush jobs.. Everyone looking for that quick buck and forgetting to see that the bar for "acceptable" has been raised right out of the gate.. Gone are the days of saying "Oh, well its awful now, maybe if I give it 3 years to mature I could enjoy this game!".. People want instant gratification now that they have MANY MANY options.. WHo wants to pay to play a half done game when all they have to do is go back to one that has matured and is ready to play from start to finish out of the box with little or no interruptions?
I think the companies should take a step back and breathe.. The fucking world is not ending and there is plenty of money to be made still, they just gotta think before they start planning around how dumb they think we are as consumers when they release pure garbage and expect us to play it anyway.. We've shown it time and time again, we will make them pay..
Perfect example, is Mark Jacobs and warhammer online....... He basically called out WoW and said "I can do just as well, easily.."...
.. It was a very bold statement and if you look at the state of War right now.. Doesn't look like its going to well , so much for that "easy" part right?
He thought he could basically copy the exact Warcarft formula advertise it as "RvR" (something "new") apply a unique skin with a different UI and sell it as a "new" game... Typical.... Instead of sticking to his script from DAoC, he chose to cater to fans of another (more popular game by far) in the midst of its newest expansion (sigh..)... Takes guts to expect to go far with that kind of mind set..
Not every gamer who plays WoW is a mindless (I will play anything like WoW) gamer. I for one, get very excited to see a game FINALLY distance itself from WoW as much as possible (however, most of the new releases do the opposite of that, hell even F2P's have the WoW template down to a science)
Its just sad to see that the mmo game industry conclude that we would only pay for the same thing..
I'd like to say that wasting my time responding to you is not so much a waste, as it is a means of passing time until the next great MMO comes along. Okay, sure. You don't have to justify your replying to my posts.
If you notice, most if not all the MMOs after EQ's release then WoW's release, have been some sort of clone in WoW's style and/or features and/or gameplay. Because investors feel overwhelmed by WoW's success and presence, that their mentality is to duplicate more than innovate in order to pull some of those subscribers away. Yes, I have noticed this, and it pisses me off. I've said it many times: "If I wanted to play WoW, I would play WoW, and not some failed attempt to clone WoW with a new skin, fewer people, and more bugs". The simple truth of the matter is, investors are fucking retarded. No one is going to pull people away from WoW by promising more of the same. What's the incentive to leave? Simply put, no one is going to out WoW World of Warcraft.
The only company I recognize that has not followed this rubric is CCP's EVE-Online. Besides, the age of Korean MMOs are fading. European MMOs are having some difficulty. And WoW overshadows all! The Jumpgate series is breaking the mold on this too, so my fingers are crossed that Jumpgate Evolution will be a success. Although it's not a traditional RPG, I'm guessing that many people are getting tired of the high fantasy MMOs that have saturated the market.
For as long as new MMOs "try" to innovate, Blizzard has the potential to take those innovative parts and incorporate it into their own design, thus depriving other companies of revenues to develop things further. Blizzard suffocates the MMO scene so much that investors are afraid--- and in this messed up economy where businesses are closing left-and-right, I doubt we'll see more MMOs on a grand scale like WoW, besides the ones that are backed by investors and name-brands (basically the MMOs that are announced so far). Blizzard CAN take innovative features developed by other companies and incorporate them into their games, as can ANY company. This just goes back to what I was saying before about there being so many good ideas spread out over many different games, but no one seems to want to take all the good ideas, improve on them a bit, and then put them into a new game. This was true even when the economy wasn't in the toilet. I think the bottom line is, developers and investers need to start making better games that combine minor short term rewards with long term major rewards. It seems to simple that I just can't believe no one is taking the initiative to make it happen. Every new MMO that hits the market seems to have flaws that are so obvious you have to wonder what the developers were smoking while writing code. The most hyped MMOs of 2008 sold fewer boxes combined than WOTLK sold on it's first day. I don't know what it's going to take for developers and investors to pull their heads out of their asses, but for now, I'm content to watch them lose money and players for their idiocy.
Comments
I'm going to waste some energy on this.
Why would we be "jealous"? We could easily subscribe to WoW. What would jealousy have to do with it? We aren't stuck with any other MMOs. And all the doomsayers are people who have played WoW for a great length of time.
We don't hate WoW for no reason. We hate it because Blizzard could've made it better, but we have folks such as yourself that are pleased with its lackluster state and would invest in this POS that is half of the content they gave in TBC.
Its people like yourself who promote Blizzard's degrading standards in being their effective, but sorry attempts at monopolizing our wallets instead of a decent company.
Pat yourself on the back. We love you.
Read someone saying WoW has the longest server downs and maitainance and all that, thats just bullshit? WoW is down every Wednesday from like 5 to 11. So what? Who plays at 5am in the morning? And the most that plays WoW early and got no lives gets up after 11 anyway.
The downtime of the servers its ridicilously low for the millions of people that play it.
I've played several games that has been so much suckier than Blizzard on this, and one of them is the european WAR team GOA. Omg, theres something that needs work. Sure I did only play the first week or so, but cmon. It was a catastrofy and so is many other games, especially the f2p that dont even have a 1000 players and they cant handle it.
Okay I'll play the energy wasting game too...
1. All and I do mean ALL MMO's experience levels of downtime. The more popular = more chances of downtime. If ANY of you complaining about this knew anything about server loads you might understand this a bit more.
Now to take this argument a bit further and say "Blizz has millions to make sure this is limited or erased" is also very ignorant. I don't care how much money you have your going to hit this issue nuff said.
2. YES I was a former WOW player and was hooked in for some time as well as a lot of the doomsayers here. The problem is that in the beginning the game was a very refreshing blast with Blizz on character balances quite often and very diligent to assist any changes that didn't go through smoothly. The hype for BC was tremendous and with such a success with the original it was a very high bar to jump over. They succeeded about 1/2 way and I would have to agree with that.
Once you got past getting to 70 and stuck into the doldrum of faction grinding and keys for harder SAME albeit harder dungeons for a few +loots then BC quickly lost its luster. If you were fortunate enough to be apart of a sociable and optimistic guild who helped you feel apart of a greater thing and developed more fun with the BC kudos!
Not all are so lucky and have taken their MMO playing time elsewhere. If your not having fun then why stay right? Certainly that isn't HATING on WOW.
3. For my 2 cents as the OP is encouraging me to do, I am not very optimistic about this new xpac. I won't dare say it looks more of the same but rather a few more sparklers and bottle rockets.
The trouble I foresee is being limited to actually SEEING the additional endgame dungeons. Whereas in the original areas the 40mans were really geared towards those who could get in a successful well organized guild this new xpac continues this trend with maybe not as many but still the organization is key.
Guilds with low drama, great organization, and competent responsible players are difficult to find but if you can get in one I imagine you will enjoy this xpac for 6 months give or take a month.
I myself thought to at least try the DK and see if it could amount to at least another "type" of experience where the rinse repeat cycles are fewer and there is another story to be told within this realm. Guess I'll keep a close eye on the forums for details on pro's con's.
In any event GL to all of you attempting on day one to play and best wishes it turns out all of what you hope it to be and more!
-Q
I'm going to waste some energy on this.
Why would we be "jealous"? We could easily subscribe to WoW. What would jealousy have to do with it? We aren't stuck with any other MMOs. And all the doomsayers are people who have played WoW for a great length of time.
You're jealous because whatever game you might be playing doesn't even come close to WoW's popularity, so no other game developer can even begin to approach Blizzard's resources. As a Starcraft and Diablo fan, I see that as boding well for those games in addition to the massive amont of resources blizzard can pour into WoW. Lets face it, nothing is going to topple WoW except another Blizzard MMO.
The Doomsayers have been consistently wrong for years. WoWs subs keep going up, and in less than three hours, WOTLK is going to sell more boxes than AoC and WAR combined have sold a core product in the last five months. Doomsayers are just angry that they can't convince other people to not like the game that they don't like.
We don't hate WoW for no reason. We hate it because Blizzard could've made it better, but we have folks such as yourself that are pleased with its lackluster state and would invest in this POS that is half of the content they gave in TBC.
I think you are assuming that I play WoW. That aside for the moment, there's no reason to hate something because Blizzard "could have made it better". If that's really true, then why hasn't ANY game developer in FOUR YEARS put out an MMO that exceeds WoW on all fronts? We seem to get overhyped games like AoC and Vanguard that not only fail out of the box, but whose lead developers leave the game after less than four months. WAR is an okay game, but its subs are dropping already. Why is anyone's guess, but lets face it, Mythic really didn't bring anything to the table that just blew people away. Where are player cities and housing? Intricate crafting? Vehicles that go beyond "mounts"? There are so many more things that ANY developer could implement, but they don't. Your discontent would be better served aimed at the developers who refuse to take a risk and continue to hash out the same old crap again and again.
Its people like yourself who promote Blizzard's degrading standards in being their effective, but sorry attempts at monopolizing our wallets instead of a decent company.
I like Blizzard games and I always have since I discovered Warcraft 2. Whatever you think of WoW, you can't doubt the awesomeness of the Starcraft and the Diablo series. You want to blame the players, but it's really the game companies that are to blame. Give me Star Wars Galaxies before the combat upgrade, and I'll pay for six months up front to get that experience back.
Hopefully soon, I'll be a part of the Jumpgate Evolution Beta, or if not that, playing the game sometime next year. I'm just as sick of the same old thing as anyone, but I'm also sick of the constant whining and gnashing of teeth at WoW.
......... ...... ......mmm BWAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA.....
... sorry.. I... BWAHAHAHAHA ..... wow... thats just....
Wait, first off, does anyone actually BELIEVE that statement?
I don't see why all the WoW haters are whining about the stability issues the game is suffering from, this is common with major content changes. Now if this persists a few months from now then id be complaining about it too. While i am excited about exploring the new content my major issue is that it offers nothing new for end game.
One new BG...yay, wintergrasp which will inevitably just turn into another halaa....yay More pvp focused on arena...yay. I think blizzard is pretty good at adapting and evolving their pve content but they have no clue on how to give us real pvp. I'm sorry but there is no "War" in Warcraft. If arena is going to be this expansion poor excuse for pvp once again then i just hope this game will tide me over till a few more people reach end game in Warhammer.
Blizzard expansions never really feel like an expansion to me but more of a greedy developer hitting the reset button on the time sink to force us to grind again. What i want is New content, give me housing! boats! a War! that is new content in my mind not just more instances, bgs and arenas to grind for the third time.
If we're lucky, the launch will go horribly and then WOW gamers will be forced to move to a game that requires thought and intuitivemess.
A tiny mind is a tidy mind...
If we're lucky, the mmorpg.com server will crash and posters will be forced to move to a site that requires thought and intuitiveness....and spellcheck.
I'm going to waste some energy on this.
Why would we be "jealous"? We could easily subscribe to WoW. What would jealousy have to do with it? We aren't stuck with any other MMOs. And all the doomsayers are people who have played WoW for a great length of time.
You're jealous because whatever game you might be playing doesn't even come close to WoW's popularity, so no other game developer can even begin to approach Blizzard's resources. As a Starcraft and Diablo fan, I see that as boding well for those games in addition to the massive amont of resources blizzard can pour into WoW. Lets face it, nothing is going to topple WoW except another Blizzard MMO.
The Doomsayers have been consistently wrong for years. WoWs subs keep going up, and in less than three hours, WOTLK is going to sell more boxes than AoC and WAR combined have sold a core product in the last five months. Doomsayers are just angry that they can't convince other people to not like the game that they don't like.
I fail to see the logic put behind your assumption that argos5 has jealousy at all, let alone to WoW's popularity. Just because someone doesn't like a product doesn't necessarily mean it can be attributed to jealousy. As for your point of Blizzard having massive resources, this is true yet the belief that no other developer could make something equally entertaining is a trait of close-mindedness. Who knows what will happen in 5 years or 10? I'm not saying WoW is doomed, but as any gameplayer can tell you, there comes a time when you just move on to something else whether it's due to the game itself or other reasons.
Yes, WoW subs keep going up. A decade from now, the same thing could be said of a game as of yet undeveloped. Who really knows? Yes, WotLK will outsell AoC and WAR, if not simply because WoW has been around longer and has a greater number of subscribers who want to check out the new content. Does it mean that AoC and/or WAR are bad games because less people are playing? No, it just means there are less people playing because those products have not been available to the public in comparison to WoW.
We don't hate WoW for no reason. We hate it because Blizzard could've made it better, but we have folks such as yourself that are pleased with its lackluster state and would invest in this POS that is half of the content they gave in TBC.
I think you are assuming that I play WoW. That aside for the moment, there's no reason to hate something because Blizzard "could have made it better". If that's really true, then why hasn't ANY game developer in FOUR YEARS put out an MMO that exceeds WoW on all fronts? We seem to get overhyped games like AoC and Vanguard that not only fail out of the box, but whose lead developers leave the game after less than four months. WAR is an okay game, but its subs are dropping already. Why is anyone's guess, but lets face it, Mythic really didn't bring anything to the table that just blew people away. Where are player cities and housing? Intricate crafting? Vehicles that go beyond "mounts"? There are so many more things that ANY developer could implement, but they don't. Your discontent would be better served aimed at the developers who refuse to take a risk and continue to hash out the same old crap again and again.
People can dislike the game for whatever reason they choose, hence the term "opinion". For example, I gave up WoW last year because it felt less fun as the days went by and merely a grindfest for better gear to run higher instances. Does this mean I think WoW sucks? No, it just means I lost interest in the WoW experience. I'm into WAR at the moment, and while it shares many common details with WoW, no doubt the time will come when there is no new content available and it becomes repetitive and either I await an expansion, re-roll and do it all over again, or just stop playing. That's the benefit of choice.
Its people like yourself who promote Blizzard's degrading standards in being their effective, but sorry attempts at monopolizing our wallets instead of a decent company.
I like Blizzard games and I always have since I discovered Warcraft 2. Whatever you think of WoW, you can't doubt the awesomeness of the Starcraft and the Diablo series. You want to blame the players, but it's really the game companies that are to blame. Give me Star Wars Galaxies before the combat upgrade, and I'll pay for six months up front to get that experience back.
Hopefully soon, I'll be a part of the Jumpgate Evolution Beta, or if not that, playing the game sometime next year. I'm just as sick of the same old thing as anyone, but I'm also sick of the constant whining and gnashing of teeth at WoW.
There are many people in the world who do not share your enthusiasm for either the Starcraft or Diablo series, let alone WoW. Simply stating your opinion that you think they are awesome does not suddenly mean it is law and anyone else who disagrees is wrong. I'm glad you enjoy those series. I enjoyed them at one point in time as well.
You may not like people having negative opinions of WoW, or at least voicing them here or other places but that is the beauty of the internet. You either have to accept that not everyone is going to enjoy WoW or stop reading comments.
You mean they had a lot more than 11 million players at one point? ;-)
You mean they had a lot more than 11 million players at one point? ;-)
While WoW dying is an exageration, a lot of people from vanilla WoW have left and you have to be foolish if you think otherwise.
Funny anecdotal observation i have found lately is that back when WoW first came out when i talked with other players they all had a lot of mmo experience from other games. Whether it was EQ, UO CoH whatever. Now a days when i talk to other WoW players it is there first mmo. i think a lot of the games success stems from word of mouth and heavy marketing, something that other mmos are lacking unless you keep up on them.
Zero interest in the expansion.
What is it with people constantly lamenting older versions of MMO's. Vanilla WoW NEEDED to expand, it was getting stale and boring. 40 man raids were a ridiculous concept from a logistics point of view, and were a headache even for the most organised Raid Guilds.
I'm really looking forward to the new content. I've been playing wow off and on since a couple months after vanilla release. While I can't say it's held my attention completely for these past few years it's always been an entertaining game to plug in and go. While I understand other MMOs may provide certain aspects that are better for some people, the primary interest for me is End game raiding. Now I wasn't fortunate to experience what passed for end game in the previous MMOs I played, mostly due to a lack of commitment. But from the first time I set foot into MC and saw the 2 Giants standing by the bridge I was hooked on the epic aspect of the wow raiding world. Every boss fight feels incredibly important in your first encounter, and every wipe gave me more incentive to take down the enemy. The lack of a real punishment for dying other than resetting the fight and fixing your gear made the whole raid aspect doable and smooth. Now with the introduction of 10-man dungeons, me and my real life friends can get together as a group and do these epic, story-driven events and see content that previously had been restricted to the socialites of the world (of warcraft).
To those griping about server stability, it's an unfortunate aspect of playing an online game. We are always at the will of the server, if it's not there we aren't either. I can't rightly remember the server issues with BC but I remember they were there too, it'll get better. If you can't handle being governed by something you have no control over, then I would strongly suggest you stick to single player games. Great thing about being a gamer is that in this day and age, we have enough choices to make a lot of people happy. So find your happy place
!
And to those that hate wow, not really anything you can do about it but put inflamatory posts in comments and on message boards. You are welcome to your opinion, but don't get defensive if the people who enjoy the game stick up for it.
Anyways just my 2cents
P.S.: At least I still got chicken
Okay, I'm not going to say much or use another color this time because it's quickly going to turn into a rainbow that no one will want to approach. Just a few points to make:
1. The assumption of jealously is the only reason I can think of that anyone would care enough into pouring energy against WoW. It's just a game, but it's holding a disproportionate share of the market, and without that market, other companies can't be sure of thier own financial success.
2. I think another developer very well COULD make a game better than WoW. The question is: Why haven't they? SWG before the combat upgrade was better than WoW in my opinion. For some reason, developers keep getting the same stuff wrong over and over again when they make the attempt.
3. Everyone can dislike a game. But why waste the energy attacking it? Opinions are fine, but who really cares how much some people hate WoW? Certainly not Blizzard and their millions of subscribers.
4. I don't care about people having negative opinions about WoW. People can have whatever opinions they want. It would just be nice if we could consolidate that hatred into its own forum, such as the Vet Refuge for former SWG players. I think the announcement of a new expansion of ANY game should be a place where fans can gather and talk about their experiences, ask questions, and look forward to more. Simply put, if you want to hate on WoW, there are better places for it, though I think hating on a game is a waste of energy and time.
No where did I say that my opinion was law. However if you don't care for the Starcraft and Diablo series of games (assuming you don't hate RTS and RPG games), there is something really wrong with you.
Holy crap did you just say SWG before CU was better than WOW?!?!?
Okay...I'm going to just slowly take steps back out of the room. I would be hard pressed to actually hear an argument where that model was an excellent basis for MMO's.
SWG sucked years out of my life NOT because it was a great MMO but 1. it was my first (other choices were EQ and AC at the time) and 2. I had alot of friends there.
The game was pointless, pvp was a joke, jedi was a ploy, classes remained unbalanced for the entire duration of the game (/cough TK cough cough), and where else can you wield a weapon and become instant helpless after spamming a few specials without doctor buffs?!?!?
Please tell me you were kidding about SWG and that I just didn't get it because of my immediate scarred emotional response when I saw SWG in your sentence.
-Q
I played the beta for about a week and enjoyed it for what it was, however, it didn't make me excited for its release.
1) There really isn't anything in it for brand new players unless someone changed the minimum level requirement on an older character that opens up Death Knight playability. That being said, anyone can spend a couple weeks on a new character and meet that requirement in no time :P (Madness?! This is WOW!!)
2) You get to play as a Death Knight starting at level 55 and you will likely complete the new DK's area around 57.5 (probably a few hours), then grind or do Plagueland quests to meet the requirements to enter BC. Then you get to do all the old crap you have been doing for the last year but only after losing your awesome DK starting armor and turning into a colorful version of Bozo the Death Knight. THEN you can quest and grind to be able to adventure on Northrend. Sure, you can venture to Northrend earlier but good luck with that.
3) Nothrend is cool, as are the changes made to the cities with new ports and such for transportation (I especially liked the Stormwind one). Blizzard has always done a good job with snowy areas, imho, and the addition of new snow flurries, dynamic shadows and, possibly, better graphics/textures (or it could just be an illusion created from the new shadows and general better art) really does make the game look nicer. The new continent seems a little "tight" in some parts though. I think they will feel that way to a lot of people at first, too.
Some of the new parts of Northrend look especially nice and the attention to detail is very good. I personally liked Nagrand's design and many areas of Northrend thrilled me as much as it did at first impression.
4) New spells and abilities? Yeah definitely cool. Who couldn't love being able to dual-wield two-handed swords? Now I just need to find out where the three-handed swords drop...
I think most people will love the expansion but it doesn't offer enough new content for me. Perhaps a second Hero class would have helped...Fun is fun, I wish the best to those breaking down the virtual gates!
Holy crap did you just say SWG before CU was better than WOW?!?!?
Okay...I'm going to just slowly take steps back out of the room. I would be hard pressed to actually hear an argument where that model was an excellent basis for MMO's.
SWG sucked years out of my life NOT because it was a great MMO but 1. it was my first (other choices were EQ and AC at the time) and 2. I had alot of friends there.
The game was pointless, pvp was a joke, jedi was a ploy, classes remained unbalanced for the entire duration of the game (/cough TK cough cough), and where else can you wield a weapon and become instant helpless after spamming a few specials without doctor buffs?!?!?
Please tell me you were kidding about SWG and that I just didn't get it because of my immediate scarred emotional response when I saw SWG in your sentence.
-Q
Actually, SWG pre-NGE was a pretty good game. A player had far more options in that game than in Wow, the economy was player driven, not the ridiculous loot based in Wow. You had a pretty good housing design, a lot of places to explore. Granted it had some balance issues and had a far higher learning curve, but I think if SOE had fixed it, instead of changing it, they could have at least competed with Wow for the more intelligent gamer who wanted more than Wow had to offer.
lol
This pretty much sums it up for me as well. WoW/TBC just started feeling very "tired" to me. Bored of TBC last spring, I tried LotRO on a 14-day free trial and found I liked it much more than WoW. LotRO seemed more casual player friendly (imo), had an actual storyline to follow, offered instance/group content that felt like less of a chore to complete, provides a better LFG system, and overall has a more realistic feel to it: no silly gnome flying machines, no absurdly gigantic weapons, no garish, neon armors, etc.
WoW is a clever and effective game, I will be the first to admit, and I had a lot of fun playing it, but it is a game that has just -- for me -- run its course.
SWG was my second MMO. My first was the original Jumpgate.
The basis for SWG was solid. The developers and SOE were not. They had the basis for a great game that kept me coming back:
1. A truly open world (or worlds)
2. Player cities and housing that could be placed almost anywhere in the game world
3. Intricate crafting that was time consuming and actually mattered
4. Built-in need to interact with other people (Doctors and entertainers for wounds/buffs)
That's not to say the game was perfect or that it didn't have problems. It did. But there was potential there for something great that SOE completely passed up. And then with the NGE, they destroyed the game for good.
My point was, however, that game companies clearly have the ability and the means to develop games that are superior to WoW, but for some reason, they don't. People have high expectations for new MMOs.
Frankly, I'm not going to play any new MMO that fails to include player housing/cities, intricate crafting systems, and many features for guilds.
I feel like there are so many good ideas out there spread across many different games that it really wouldn't take too much thought to compile all these good things into a single game and really give the more established MMOs a run for their money.
But alas...
I have to disagree with this.
I'd like to say that wasting my time responding to you is not so much a waste, as it is a means of passing time until the next great MMO comes along.
But to your point. No, no development company has the funding to be superior to WoW. Why? Because if you watched the trends nowadays, most if not all developers are absorbed into larger companies which inevitably dictate the ebb and flow of some mass chunk of their development.
If you notice, most if not all the MMOs after EQ's release then WoW's release, have been some sort of clone in WoW's style and/or features and/or gameplay. Because investors feel overwhelmed by WoW's success and presence, that their mentality is to duplicate more than innovate in order to pull some of those subscribers away.
The only company I recognize that has not followed this rubric is CCP's EVE-Online. Besides, the age of Korean MMOs are fading. European MMOs are having some difficulty. And WoW overshadows all!
For as long as new MMOs "try" to innovate, Blizzard has the potential to take those innovative parts and incorporate it into their own design, thus depriving other companies of revenues to develop things further. Blizzard suffocates the MMO scene so much that investors are afraid--- and in this messed up economy where businesses are closing left-and-right, I doubt we'll see more MMOs on a grand scale like WoW, besides the ones that are backed by investors and name-brands (basically the MMOs that are announced so far).
I'd like to say that wasting my time responding to you is not so much a waste, as it is a means of passing time until the next great MMO comes along.
But to your point. No, no development company has the funding to be superior to WoW. Why? Because if you watched the trends nowadays, most if not all developers are absorbed into larger companies which inevitably dictate the ebb and flow of some mass chunk of their development.
If you notice, most if not all the MMOs after EQ's release then WoW's release, have been some sort of clone in WoW's style and/or features and/or gameplay. Because investors feel overwhelmed by WoW's success and presence, that their mentality is to duplicate more than innovate in order to pull some of those subscribers away.
The only company I recognize that has not followed this rubric is CCP's EVE-Online. Besides, the age of Korean MMOs are fading. European MMOs are having some difficulty. And WoW overshadows all!
For as long as new MMOs "try" to innovate, Blizzard has the potential to take those innovative parts and incorporate it into their own design, thus depriving other companies of revenues to develop things further. Blizzard suffocates the MMO scene so much that investors are afraid--- and in this messed up economy where businesses are closing left-and-right, I doubt we'll see more MMOs on a grand scale like WoW, besides the ones that are backed by investors and name-brands (basically the MMOs that are announced so far).
Truth... Also, note that most new mmo's are rush jobs.. Everyone looking for that quick buck and forgetting to see that the bar for "acceptable" has been raised right out of the gate.. Gone are the days of saying "Oh, well its awful now, maybe if I give it 3 years to mature I could enjoy this game!".. People want instant gratification now that they have MANY MANY options.. WHo wants to pay to play a half done game when all they have to do is go back to one that has matured and is ready to play from start to finish out of the box with little or no interruptions?
I think the companies should take a step back and breathe.. The fucking world is not ending and there is plenty of money to be made still, they just gotta think before they start planning around how dumb they think we are as consumers when they release pure garbage and expect us to play it anyway.. We've shown it time and time again, we will make them pay..
Perfect example, is Mark Jacobs and warhammer online....... He basically called out WoW and said "I can do just as well, easily.."...
.. It was a very bold statement and if you look at the state of War right now.. Doesn't look like its going to well , so much for that "easy" part right?
He thought he could basically copy the exact Warcarft formula advertise it as "RvR" (something "new") apply a unique skin with a different UI and sell it as a "new" game... Typical.... Instead of sticking to his script from DAoC, he chose to cater to fans of another (more popular game by far) in the midst of its newest expansion (sigh..)... Takes guts to expect to go far with that kind of mind set..
Not every gamer who plays WoW is a mindless (I will play anything like WoW) gamer. I for one, get very excited to see a game FINALLY distance itself from WoW as much as possible (however, most of the new releases do the opposite of that, hell even F2P's have the WoW template down to a science)
Its just sad to see that the mmo game industry conclude that we would only pay for the same thing..