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When a scout can tank...
Smilex0311
Member Posts: 207
Recently I have been seeing scouts being able to tank. This bothers me. This game is becoming classless ina sense that anyone can do anything they want no matter what class they are. I think this is really killing the game. Does anyone else feel this way?
If Scouts (DPS) are able to tank for a group in an in a group instance...Where does that leave tanks. This must feel like a real kick in the face to the tank classess out there. Last night on the Ab server i witnessed a discussion on the 70s chat, basically about tanks becoming obsolete, and how if tank cant hold aggro against a scout when the scout goes all out then the tank is worthless etc...
If Scouts can DPS and Tank, shouldnt healers be able to tank also? The devs are seriously making bad decisions with this game and the new expansion (TSO) being released in a week. I dont know devs, I remember when tanks were tanks, healers simply healed, etc...
Again as I have said in the past, if this keeps going....I wont be playing much longer.
What are your thoughts?
Comments
the only scout I'm aware of for tanking capability is Swashbuckler/Brigand
what class did you see tanking?
"scout" is kind of generic - it covers 6 classes
eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Scout
EQ2 fan sites
Swash and Brigand... 2/6. Or so the people claim. Though I have personally witnessed a Brigand tank.
Swash and Brigand... 2/6. Or so the people claim. Though I have personally witnessed a Brigand tank.
That's all fine and dandy since no one wants to tank or heal anymore. . .now we have DPS tanks and DPS healers.
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You wouldn't understand
Swash and Brigand... 2/6. Or so the people claim. Though I have personally witnessed a Brigand tank.
That's all fine and dandy since no one wants to tank or heal anymore. . .now we have DPS tanks and DPS healers.
Exactly!!! I think what we are starting to see here is that MMOs are moving towards becomming classless and more skill based. Like the AA trees in EQ2 , imagine all abilities, and spells, attacks all assigned by points.... kinda like the Darkfall myth.
Swash and Brigand... 2/6. Or so the people claim. Though I have personally witnessed a Brigand tank.
That's all fine and dandy since no one wants to tank or heal anymore. . .now we have DPS tanks and DPS healers.
Exactly!!! I think what we are starting to see here is that MMOs are moving towards becomming classless and more skill based. Like the AA trees in EQ2 , imagine all abilities, and spells, attacks all assigned by points.... kinda like the Darkfall myth.
Skill based systems are overrated. Everyone will be the same build:
Wears Plate
Casts magic/heals
Does scout damage
Wala! No need to group anymore.
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You wouldn't understand
It may be overrated, but that looks like where the developers are taking this game imo. I guess time will tell all once again. We have a week till TSO then we will see in about 2 months after that what we have to work with I guess. Hopefully some changes are made in the favor of classes being able to perform their sole function as they were meant to.
Being a swashie in eq2 I can attest that if you needed a chain tank for any reason, that would be the only class that could do it. HOWEVER, we only have 2 little taunts. So, it would be easy to lose agro to a wizzie or coercer. Plus, you need a pretty good healer because a lot of the mobs in the lvl 80 instances hit like mack trucks!
I have tanked before, but not because I wanted to. Our main tank fell, and I had to pick up the slack while the necro rezed him. The healers (fury/mystic combo) were working their butts off to keep me up. It is possible, but is it preferred or desierable? No.
I will also say that I can tank because 90% of the time I 2 box solo with my mystic. So, I know what I can handle and what I cant and what I need to do to get out of trouble.
I also main tanked a guild writ. That was not by choice. Our MT LD'ed just as we started the writ. If I didn't step up, the rest of the guild would have been locked out for 3 days. Being an officer, I felt it was my duty to give it a shot. It was a long afternoon, but we did it. Careful single pulls, agro control, and well thought out attacks.
Now, what does all this say about plate tanks? If we had our MT, what took us 2 hours probably would have only taken 30 minutes and been a piece of cake. So, your statements about them not being needed is a far stretch.
The better debate is which makes the better plate tank... Guard, Pally, SK, Zerker? Personally, I like an SK or a Zerker tank. They each have their strengths and the group gets built around it. Zerkers are also become plate scouts with their massive amounts of DPS and total survivability. They can stand in there and take hits a lot better. Yea, scouts have better avoidance, and there is the whole argument of avoidance vs mit. But I do not want to hijack this thread to start that discussion
I didnt say tanks werent needed at all, I said they were becoming obsolete...Especially for grp instances. brigs/Swash rip aggro from almost any tank that is not fabled, they do unbelievable damage...and they have outstanding avoidance. Heck, I solo heal maidens with 5 scouts. And its not tough at all. I think that a T8 grp instance should require plate defensive tank minimum, and thatr is not the case anymore. Thats all I meant.
Every class is a viable choice.
I have never joined a group as a Shadow knight that someone said, “We got to find a Guardian, and this SK can’t take the heat”. It is no different than others saying that Furies can’t heal. A Brigand was designed to tank some, but not everything. Hell a Necromancer can tank, if they have the needed healing. I wouldn’t look too much into it.
I play a swashbucker and I can tank some. I'm not an uber geared player so who knows what someone with the best has to offer can do. But when I put myself in devensive mode I can survive a group mob. If it is a named mob and lower level I might be able to survive but it will be very dicy. Where I fall flat however is with groups of mobs. While I can keep one mob on me with my taunts I have no AE taunts so if I'm dealing with multiple mobs the healers will die pretty fast.
My wife plays a shaman and a druid. She won't play with me using the shaman cause she dies too often :P With the druid she can evac when I loose agro.
Now if I speced out in AA with defensive abilities I might be able to do better. So yeah a swashbuckler can tank some but we are not comparable to the lowest of real tanks with comparable gear.
As to who can tank, I saw a wizard tanking not to long ago. Course he was an uber wizard with top gear and we were fighting in kurnors. None the less I think any class can tank in the right situation with the right gear
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Ethion
Let every class be good at doing damage.
It's time to throw this holy trinity crap overboard anyway.
And by holy trinity I mean tank, dps and healer.
Let every class be able to heal and every class to do good dps but only allow one class to wear the best armor.
They will be known as knights or maybe crusaders.
They will have their "invisible bubble" for up to teeeeeeeeeeeeeen minutes.
Why?
Because they are favoured by the gods.
You don't like it?
Well then John-Boy, I think it's time for you to go back to Counter Strike.
Couldn't hack it?
Got your ass handed to you by twelve year olds?
I........
don't........
care.
This is something you very often see in the ends of an expansion. It's easy to say why: Most player has out grown all the content.
In the beginning, about all instance it was prefered with one defensive tank and 2 healers. In the end of the expansion, those same zones is tanked in offensive and with only one healer. Just look at RE2, noone would even touch that instance without a plate tank, one mezzer and two healers. Now, it taken out with a brawler, one healer, and just dps. The zone hasn't changed.
In EoF, we did Unrest without tank, or any scout. Just one healer and the rest of the group was mages. So, should we nerf mages due to that?
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Leemeg.
When you say the tank can't hold aggro against a brig/swash, you're talking crap. Unless you're talking about an extremely nooby tank and an uber brig, the tank will be able to hold aggro. I raid some and I have NEVER seen a tank loose aggro to anyone during the raid (unless the mob memwiped, but that's different).
Sure, Brigs can tank some zones, but they'll die a lot unless you have godly heals and they'll frequently loose aggro. Personally I just think the tank classes should be more balanced. At the moment I have yet to see a Pally/SK tank a T8 raid zone. They are frequently underrated, which in my opinion is just wrong. Both of these classes should get an emergency type of heal with no cast time to increase survivability and better taunts.
I really don't see what you are getting at or how you think EQ2 is becoming classless because you saw a scout tanking. Scouts do allot more dps than tanks and have a hate transfer they can put on tanks to lessen their aggro gain.
Does it always work? No, some times the scout will proc an incredibly high amount of damage and will gain the aggro.
Taking the time to learn all your spells & skills makes a world of difference in the game as each class has certain strengths and weaknesses. Combining all the right classes and people who know the game mechanics and their class well and you get an unstoppable force.
Technically If you get a few healers and a wizard together the wizard can tank, not great, but still can.
It's crazy what some people will do when you throw them in a GAME together isn't it?
i as a paladin and a swash have no problem with it. for a scout to tank 1) they have to go down a whole line of AAs which drops thier DPS a ton. secondly the group they are in has to be extremely careful as scouts dont have the snap agro tools a tank does. thirdly the healers have to be extra on the ball because many named mobs hit like a ton of bricks and can drop a scout quickly.
raid geared scouts can mostly tank i would be hardpressed to see a brig/swash tank in legendary or master crafted gear. Where as a tank in mastercrafted/legendary gear can tank almost any instance.
its set up that way from other classes not just the tank, in most raids you will see in the MT group a coercer, a dirge and a swash/assassin.
this is because they all have hate transfer that can go to the tank. thus making it harder to pull agro from the tank.
I played a swashie a lot. With the right specs I could tank up to level 55 (while still out dps most players). However if I ever lost the aggro, I had only 2 taunts so a Swash tank will have to be really good.
After 55 it's get too hard, a swashie can't take as much punishment as a guardian, not even close so the group will wipe a lot. Maybe with 2 amazing healers it could work but it still is a lot better with a real tank.
Berserkers can DPS a bit too, not as good as a real dps but good enough, is the same thing.
I have no problem with this, if the swashie/Brigand would be as good tank as the tank classes who do less DPS it would be wrong, now you need to be a lot better. But it is fun to actually be able to tank, you still need a good party and you can forget it in RAIDS and high level content anyways.
Well yesterday I got with my wifes inquisitor and thought we would check out some of the new instance dungeons in everfrost. I'm 73 and my wifes character was 50 something. So I decided to go in and check out mobs. So I'm in an instance and there is a 73 3 up mob. I pull him and died about 5 seconds later....
Ok so I decide we will try a trick and hit the next instance but this time I go in mentored to my wifes char. I think the mobs are like 59-60 or something. Anyway I unmentor her and I'm back to 73 or maybe it was 72... anyway the mobs are green some are gray so I'm about at the limit. Now I pull one and the fight is fairly long and am able to tank it but ultimately my wife ran out of mana before the mob was dead.
So I'd say swashies are best for doing dps and not for tanking...
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Ethion
Theres a whole AA line for brigands built around the stamina line that deal in shields and give more hate producing abilites. I gave it a try with lots of stamina gear on, and I tanked pretty damn well. In the guild I was in, I was the go to guy for offtanking, I did pretty well, and often got complimented on it.
No one expected it, but everyone loved it.
I tanked all the way up to 65 when I quit, with no problems whatsoever. (Mind you I had almost all Fabled Gear from the pvp merchant as well as raid drops)
I believe the mobs in tier 8 took a jump in difficulty. I was able to do a lot better tanking in the 60s then I do now in the 70s. I did a number of instances in sinking sands with my wife healing me and we were pretty successful. I still couldn't do a boss but I could do most of the normal mobs and even named ones. Groups would generally go badly but solo or even 2 was doable. But not so with any of the newer tier 8 stuff... There I die pretty quickly.
swashies have a sta line of def abilities too. I have not focused on that so I'm sure I could do better but there is still a pretty substantial difference between tier 7 and tier 8 mobs.
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Ethion