This guild played and tested the expansion for months on end. They knew every encounter inside and out, not to mention they are "professional" gamers for whatever that means.
Two things that come out of this in my mind.
WoW isn't some gear based game that requires no skill to play. I'm sure most of the guild was in whatever new gear they could scrape together while leveling and beat the content based heavily on their playing ability and previous experience with the encounters.
This is exactly the kind of behavior that is encouraged by putting in world/server first achievement awards and titles. A bunch of beta testers get titles for being "first" to put their beta experiences to work in the live game.
Good for them. I really don't care if i ever see it. Even if I ever go back to WoW I see no point in raiding. If it takes more than 5 people other than pvp I find no enjoyment in it. I enjoyed doing some raiding in EQ but the WoW raiding community really turned me against the whole raiding culture.
WoW isn't some gear based game that requires no skill to play. I'm sure most of the guild was in whatever new gear they could scrape together while leveling and beat the content based heavily on their playing ability and previous experience with the encounters.
No game is that gear based. Try to play Wows endgame with crappy stuff you bought from a vendor and you see how gear based it and almost all other MMOs are.
Only exception I seen so far is Guildwars.
All MMOs require skills. But it can't be that hard and demand so much skill if it takes 68 1/2 hours?
No, I have nothing against Wow but saying it is a skill based game where gear doesn't matter is just wrong. Wow is one of the easier MMOs out there.
WoW isn't some gear based game that requires no skill to play. I'm sure most of the guild was in whatever new gear they could scrape together while leveling and beat the content based heavily on their playing ability and previous experience with the encounters.
No game is that gear based. Try to play Wows endgame with crappy stuff you bought from a vendor and you see how gear based it and almost all other MMOs are.
Only exception I seen so far is Guildwars.
All MMOs require skills. But it can't be that hard and demand so much skill if it takes 68 1/2 hours?
No, I have nothing against Wow but saying it is a skill based game where gear doesn't matter is just wrong. Wow is one of the easier MMOs out there.
How are other MMORPGs harder, besides taking more time to acomplish the same?
Originally posted by SonofSeth How are other MMORPGs harder, besides taking more time to acomplish the same?
Yeah, I've always enjoyed this argument as well. Mostly people get confused with either poor mechanics or time, when referring to 'skill'. With maybe ... and it's a long maybe ... the exception of Eve I really don't think any other MMO is incrementally different from WoW. Chances are if you're good in one game, you'll be ok in others.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Originally posted by Loke666 No game is that gear based. Try to play Wows endgame with crappy stuff you bought from a vendor and you see how gear based it and almost all other MMOs are.
I assume you have not played WoW at all. The vendor gear doesn't even have stats in there.
All MMOs require skills. But it can't be that hard and demand so much skill if it takes 68 1/2 hours?
Nihilum and SK can not be used as a measurement. They're not 'one of the top guild', they're -the- top guild in WoW - worldwide. Besides, they must have spent all their time in beta defeating the content. They've had all the timings and practices there.
Hang on a second. Naxxramas, the same place that housed tier 3, is also the same raid for tier 7? So basically Blizzard ran out of ideas and decided to retune an old instance? Is Tier 8 going to be Molten Core? I mean seriously, this is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is that curse/nihilum thought it was going to be different. That they spent 3 days without sleep in order to clear that place is not only completely frickin' retarded but it sends a bad message to the already envious player base about whats important in life.
But I dont think WAR will suck, since its focused on pvp/rvr. with the current PvE climate of MMOs, including WoW, where PvE is imo too easy, Pvp is what is not.
Dunno if people know how to make MMOs anymore, but judging by the above post, people sure get fooled about who's gonna make a GOOD one right AKBandito?
Why would anyone pay money to run a treadmill they ran in the last expansion? Worse yet, its just a retard friendly treadmill version of the EQ treadmill.
It does raise a concern but.... This guild was composed of 25 + of the nerdiest freakin people on earth. The rest of the Wow population (because they do things like go to work and have lives) may take alot longer to clear all the content. So its to early to say Blizzard miscalculated at this point.
Hang on a second. Naxxramas, the same place that housed tier 3, is also the same raid for tier 7? So basically Blizzard ran out of ideas and decided to retune an old instance? Is Tier 8 going to be Molten Core? I mean seriously, this is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is that curse/nihilum thought it was going to be different. That they spent 3 days without sleep in order to clear that place is not only completely frickin' retarded but it sends a bad message to the already envious player base about whats important in life.
no the story moved on and naxx went with it as part of that story, i love how people find any little thing to bash blizz on.
The people freaking out over how fast the content was beat...well the dungeon/raid content...need to get a grip, these guys learned these dungeons in beta and have been farming them in beta forever now, of course they were gonna pop into the game and finish it fast, i see all these people hitting 80 super fast and i just smile because they are by passing so much good quests and stuff, but everyone has their own playstyle and i'll just remind them if they complain how bored they are that nobody forced them to rush to the end.
I just don't get why it even matters how fast someone else did something, I play at my own pace and fully explore and enjoy everything, i guess the good part of these folks hitting high level fast is they will get bored and not play as much using less of blizzards resources and blizz will still win because those people will keep their accounts active even if they don't play.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Do you still have fun playing the game with your guild or whoever you game with? If the answer is yes...who cares? If the answer is no...stop playing and pick up one of the million other video games out there? edit: this is aimed at people complaining about casual vs hardcore gamers enjoying their time in WoW.
This
DOAC is still the MMO I judge other games by, My first and still my favorite.
The people freaking out over how fast the content was beat...well the dungeon/raid content...need to get a grip, these guys learned these dungeons in beta and have been farming them in beta forever now, of course they were gonna pop into the game and finish it fast, i see all these people hitting 80 super fast and i just smile because they are by passing so much good quests and stuff, but everyone has their own playstyle and i'll just remind them if they complain how bored they are that nobody forced them to rush to the end. I just don't get why it even matters how fast someone else did something, I play at my own pace and fully explore and enjoy everything, i guess the good part of these folks hitting high level fast is they will get bored and not play as much using less of blizzards resources and blizz will still win because those people will keep their accounts active even if they don't play.
Still, it was awefully fast and we're not likely to see another expansion before 2 years. Even with some free content patched in, will this really keep the raiders happy for 2 years?
To me, it sounds like Blizzard are aiming harder for the casual players. It is a hard balance, too hard means the casual players give up, too easy and the raiders run through it a few times and then quit.
Well, casual players are the biggest parts of the players but the hardcore ones are faithful and stays longer. I hope they patch it up to be harder.
That they played it before isn't a great advantage, soon all the tricks will be on the web.
If the worst geeks did it in less than 3 days, that means that most raiders will have done it in a month, then add another month or 2 for them to get the cool gear. What will they do after that? They can PvP off course but the raiders use to be mainly PvE players.
Either Blizz will have to patch in some more tougher raids or they have to hurry and release the next expansion in a year. They will probably do one of these things however, Blizz usually comes out of these things good.
Not like the content and raids were new to this guild, they played with beta for months, learning the fights untill they become routine. The hardest thing was getting to 80, once at 80 they all knew the fights, they all knew what to do. They were all in the best gear and the top end lvl 70 gear with 80 weapons and trinkets is good enough for 80 raiding. Just as a guild in pre-wrath could do all the end game in TBC in 1 day with enough practice. These were not fresh faced raiders, these were hard-core. no job, Wow 24/7 raiders who had played all these raids dozens of times in beta and had the strategy all worked out. Blizzard did not get the tunning wrong the raid guild got the preperation right.
I find it amusing that even between us gamers we resort to stereotypes. We humans are indeed a sad lot, judging eachother left and right based on very few facts.
I used to be, what you lot call a hardcore raider in WoW. This was before TBC when raids really where hard. We raided in the weekends mostly, taking the easy raids in the weekdays at the evening. I did have a job back then and I still got the same job today, had what you would call a life, spent time with my friends, partied alot and generally had a great time. I still found time for raiding. That you had to sell your soul to some raiding guild if you wanted to see mc/bwl/ony/eq etc is just bullshit. It was time-consuming yes, but not more than I found time for all my other activites also.
You misunderstood what hardcore raiders are - if you catagorize yourself as one, and having a job and a life.
It's not stereotyping, it's facts. A hardcore raider raids around 12 hours a day - 6 days a week. Unless you did that, you were softcore or casual.
I play like you describe yourself, and I dont consider it hardcore by any standards
Not like the content and raids were new to this guild, they played with beta for months, learning the fights untill they become routine. The hardest thing was getting to 80, once at 80 they all knew the fights, they all knew what to do. They were all in the best gear and the top end lvl 70 gear with 80 weapons and trinkets is good enough for 80 raiding. Just as a guild in pre-wrath could do all the end game in TBC in 1 day with enough practice. These were not fresh faced raiders, these were hard-core. no job, Wow 24/7 raiders who had played all these raids dozens of times in beta and had the strategy all worked out. Blizzard did not get the tunning wrong the raid guild got the preperation right.
I find it amusing that even between us gamers we resort to stereotypes. We humans are indeed a sad lot, judging eachother left and right based on very few facts.
I used to be, what you lot call a hardcore raider in WoW. This was before TBC when raids really where hard. We raided in the weekends mostly, taking the easy raids in the weekdays at the evening. I did have a job back then and I still got the same job today, had what you would call a life, spent time with my friends, partied alot and generally had a great time. I still found time for raiding. That you had to sell your soul to some raiding guild if you wanted to see mc/bwl/ony/eq etc is just bullshit. It was time-consuming yes, but not more than I found time for all my other activites also.
You misunderstood what hardcore raiders are - if you catagorize yourself as one, and having a job and a life.
It's not stereotyping, it's facts. A hardcore raider raids around 12 hours a day - 6 days a week. Unless you did that, you were softcore or casual.
I play like you describe yourself, and I dont consider it hardcore by any standards
Hmm, so all Hardcore raiders is on wellfare? and shit n' piss their pants, cause their too busy raiding, to go to the toilet? all hardcore raiders get their food delivered to the computer by their parents?
GF nihilum, you cleared WoTLK, but you smell so bad...!
Kel'thuzad, Sartharion, and Malygos world first kill by TwentyFifthNovember (Nihilum and SK-Gaming)
But Lich King isn't dead - they havn't beaten all of the expansion yet :P
Blizzard didn't open up everything, and besides, who cares what professional gamers do? (professional as in getting paid to play a game)
People playing the expansion to experience it will find months and months of good fun in it, but I guess if you have been playing wotlk for 4-5 months (as these guilds have), it's no biggie to clear the content.
What Blizzard needs to do, is to hire a 50-100 man inhouse team to test the content themselves and no betas, then these guys would have taken over 2 months to clear the few dungeons they have.
No game is that gear based. Try to play Wows endgame with crappy stuff you bought from a vendor and you see how gear based it and almost all other MMOs are.
I assume you have not played WoW at all.
The vendor gear doesn't even have stats in there.
That was my point. Wow is gear based, if you take the crappiest gear you ain't comming far unluss you have a whole guild to help you out.
Kel'thuzad, Sartharion, and Malygos world first kill by TwentyFifthNovember (Nihilum and SK-Gaming)
But Lich King isn't dead - they havn't beaten all of the expansion yet :P
Blizzard didn't open up everything, and besides, who cares what professional gamers do? (professional as in getting paid to play a game)
People playing the expansion to experience it will find months and months of good fun in it, but I guess if you have been playing wotlk for 4-5 months (as these guilds have), it's no biggie to clear the content.
What Blizzard needs to do, is to hire a 50-100 man inhouse team to test the content themselves and no betas, then these guys would have taken over 2 months to clear the few dungeons they have.
okay so they cleard instances that is equal to what? karazhan? and the harder once will come later? i dont play wow, thats why i ask..
Bliz don't give a crap about the casual gamer. It's the 9 million + Chinese players they need to make content accesiable for. Go see how net time in MMO's work for chinese and you'll see why raid design has changed.
Any gaming company that could be bothered breaking into that market could as easily open up to that many subscribers. Over 210 million net users at the end of 207 and that was growing at a rate of 200 new users per minute, most of which were under the age of 30. Do some research and these things become a little clearer.
There's a reason why you don't have to buy WoW xpacks in China. That's for us mugs to pay for. In China they just add it to your account and off you go with your free DL of the content...
No game is that gear based. Try to play Wows endgame with crappy stuff you bought from a vendor and you see how gear based it and almost all other MMOs are.
I assume you have not played WoW at all.
The vendor gear doesn't even have stats in there.
That was my point. Wow is gear based, if you take the crappiest gear you ain't comming far unluss you have a whole guild to help you out.
Did you even bother to read what all I wrote?
People read what you write, but it doesen't help much when you do such a poor job at expresing yourself.
WoW isn't some gear based game that requires no skill to play. I'm sure most of the guild was in whatever new gear they could scrape together while leveling and beat the content based heavily on their playing ability and previous experience with the encounters.
No game is that gear based. Try to play Wows endgame with crappy stuff you bought from a vendor and you see how gear based it and almost all other MMOs are.
Only exception I seen so far is Guildwars.
All MMOs require skills. But it can't be that hard and demand so much skill if it takes 68 1/2 hours?
No, I have nothing against Wow but saying it is a skill based game where gear doesn't matter is just wrong. Wow is one of the easier MMOs out there.
68 1/2 hours is very deceptive since this guild spent months in beta rehearsing these encounters over and over while they were created.
My point was not that WoW requires more skill than any other game, but that obviously it was skill of the players defeated these encounters and not strength of items which is something people often claim about WoW.
As for WoW being easier than other MMOs, that is just something we are going to have to disagree on. I find WoW has more challenging gameplay, but is easier in a sense that the tedium is removed. I am not of the opinion that gameplay needs to be punishing and time consuming to make up for lack of challenge.
Personally I think the expansion was released a bit early and the end game not tested sufficiently (not that it would have changed the outcome of SK-Nihilium guild did), but I have little reasonable data to support that.
seriously, you are always going to have players that do this crap. There are always people that just play the game and do nothing else. There is no reason to start complaining about how easy the content is. People said the same thing about The Burning Crusade, and I bet half of the 11 million still didn't see Illidan after the 30% hp nerf.
and for the EQ players, I was one from 2001 to 2004. I guess no one remebers Casus Belli or Landslide... guilds the cleared content the week the xpac came out.
just because a group of HARDCORE players can clear the content in a short amount of time. It doesnt mean the content is watered down.
stop trying to find something to complain about and enjoy the game.
Still, it was awefully fast and we're not likely to see another expansion before 2 years. Even with some free content patched in, will this really keep the raiders happy for 2 years?
To me, it sounds like Blizzard are aiming harder for the casual players. It is a hard balance, too hard means the casual players give up, too easy and the raiders run through it a few times and then quit.
Not sure if you're reading all the posts here properly Loke. Its less than 1% of 1% that has SEEN any of this endgame content.
Remember in your high school days there was always one or two kids that got A's, even on stuff that the teacher didn't cover yet as pop quizzes, and the teacher was so impressed, they'd make MORE side stuff just to keep them busy? Well, these guys are the WoW equilivent. This was not 'fast' at all to them, it's normal. As has been stated over and over to the point of whipping that dead horse back alive... they are the best, they practice EVERY day working in beta towards this. THESE are hardcore gamer. THESE are the guys who write the strategy guides that YOUR guild leaders copy/paste/tell you guys to read up on your sites.
I'm not sure which hardcore gamers you are referring to but THIS is them. THESE are the guys who you keep trying to reference. You, me, and the vast majority of people reading and posting here ARE the CASUALS, even if you spend 10 hours a day playing some MMO, youre probably still not 'hardcore'. We just THINK we are hardcore. You are chatting and fishing and farming and yakking on Vent, goofing around most of the day. Now thats fine cause you pay/play how you want. But don't confuse /time played with superior gaming skill and know how. So what you have 1, 000 hours. What did you do in those 1,000 hours? AFK and go cut your lawn? (I've done it lol).
I think thats the problem here, too many think they are "hardcore" and experts on how to make MMOs and what's wrong with this one and what's wrong with that one (myself included at times for sure) when in reality we really have the smallest clues. These guys know.
For the 'hardcore gamer' you are probably talking about, this will last them 1 year before they say this stinks or that stinks, even though they don't finish all the content. Theyll quit and say they quit cause it was too easy and they got bored. Even though, again, most of them don't see the endgame content completed but would have liked to. That old Aesop's fable about the fox and the sour grapes applies way more times than not in an MMO. "I woulda/coulda did that, but the game was too lame so why bother. I tried, but it sucked so I quit."
And as a correction, its not the hardcore who pays the bills. Thats only on niche MMOs that keep a dying population going way longer than it should have lasted. "Lore" hardcore players will keep MMOS up long past their expiration date. The casual player is the bread and butter of MMOs. Blizzard knows this and that is why they sell millions of copies. They know something Warhammer, AoC, FFXI, Vanguard, SWG, Darkfall, Hellgate, and any number of failed or failing MMOs haven't figured.
Most of us are really, at heart, casuals players. Thats why they get the money.
They didn't get banned and reset back to 70 did they?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Comments
This guild played and tested the expansion for months on end. They knew every encounter inside and out, not to mention they are "professional" gamers for whatever that means.
Two things that come out of this in my mind.
Good for them. I really don't care if i ever see it. Even if I ever go back to WoW I see no point in raiding. If it takes more than 5 people other than pvp I find no enjoyment in it. I enjoyed doing some raiding in EQ but the WoW raiding community really turned me against the whole raiding culture.
No game is that gear based. Try to play Wows endgame with crappy stuff you bought from a vendor and you see how gear based it and almost all other MMOs are.
Only exception I seen so far is Guildwars.
All MMOs require skills. But it can't be that hard and demand so much skill if it takes 68 1/2 hours?
No, I have nothing against Wow but saying it is a skill based game where gear doesn't matter is just wrong. Wow is one of the easier MMOs out there.
No game is that gear based. Try to play Wows endgame with crappy stuff you bought from a vendor and you see how gear based it and almost all other MMOs are.
Only exception I seen so far is Guildwars.
All MMOs require skills. But it can't be that hard and demand so much skill if it takes 68 1/2 hours?
No, I have nothing against Wow but saying it is a skill based game where gear doesn't matter is just wrong. Wow is one of the easier MMOs out there.
How are other MMORPGs harder, besides taking more time to acomplish the same?
Yeah, I've always enjoyed this argument as well. Mostly people get confused with either poor mechanics or time, when referring to 'skill'. With maybe ... and it's a long maybe ... the exception of Eve I really don't think any other MMO is incrementally different from WoW. Chances are if you're good in one game, you'll be ok in others.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
The vendor gear doesn't even have stats in there. Nihilum and SK can not be used as a measurement. They're not 'one of the top guild', they're -the- top guild in WoW - worldwide.
Besides, they must have spent all their time in beta defeating the content.
They've had all the timings and practices there.
read first page thats it.
so basically what ppl are saying, "raiding" is being made easier?...
whats the word for beyond carebear?
Does anyone know how to make a mmoRPG anymore?
Hang on a second. Naxxramas, the same place that housed tier 3, is also the same raid for tier 7? So basically Blizzard ran out of ideas and decided to retune an old instance? Is Tier 8 going to be Molten Core? I mean seriously, this is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is that curse/nihilum thought it was going to be different. That they spent 3 days without sleep in order to clear that place is not only completely frickin' retarded but it sends a bad message to the already envious player base about whats important in life.
Dunno if people know how to make MMOs anymore, but judging by the above post, people sure get fooled about who's gonna make a GOOD one right AKBandito?
Oops.. you wrote that.. sorry.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Why would anyone pay money to run a treadmill they ran in the last expansion? Worse yet, its just a retard friendly treadmill version of the EQ treadmill.
Darkfall Travelogues!
It does raise a concern but.... This guild was composed of 25 + of the nerdiest freakin people on earth. The rest of the Wow population (because they do things like go to work and have lives) may take alot longer to clear all the content. So its to early to say Blizzard miscalculated at this point.
no the story moved on and naxx went with it as part of that story, i love how people find any little thing to bash blizz on.
The people freaking out over how fast the content was beat...well the dungeon/raid content...need to get a grip, these guys learned these dungeons in beta and have been farming them in beta forever now, of course they were gonna pop into the game and finish it fast, i see all these people hitting 80 super fast and i just smile because they are by passing so much good quests and stuff, but everyone has their own playstyle and i'll just remind them if they complain how bored they are that nobody forced them to rush to the end.
I just don't get why it even matters how fast someone else did something, I play at my own pace and fully explore and enjoy everything, i guess the good part of these folks hitting high level fast is they will get bored and not play as much using less of blizzards resources
and blizz will still win because those people will keep their accounts active even if they don't play.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
This
Still, it was awefully fast and we're not likely to see another expansion before 2 years. Even with some free content patched in, will this really keep the raiders happy for 2 years?
To me, it sounds like Blizzard are aiming harder for the casual players. It is a hard balance, too hard means the casual players give up, too easy and the raiders run through it a few times and then quit.
Well, casual players are the biggest parts of the players but the hardcore ones are faithful and stays longer. I hope they patch it up to be harder.
That they played it before isn't a great advantage, soon all the tricks will be on the web.
If the worst geeks did it in less than 3 days, that means that most raiders will have done it in a month, then add another month or 2 for them to get the cool gear. What will they do after that? They can PvP off course but the raiders use to be mainly PvE players.
Either Blizz will have to patch in some more tougher raids or they have to hurry and release the next expansion in a year. They will probably do one of these things however, Blizz usually comes out of these things good.
I find it amusing that even between us gamers we resort to stereotypes. We humans are indeed a sad lot, judging eachother left and right based on very few facts.
I used to be, what you lot call a hardcore raider in WoW. This was before TBC when raids really where hard. We raided in the weekends mostly, taking the easy raids in the weekdays at the evening. I did have a job back then and I still got the same job today, had what you would call a life, spent time with my friends, partied alot and generally had a great time. I still found time for raiding. That you had to sell your soul to some raiding guild if you wanted to see mc/bwl/ony/eq etc is just bullshit. It was time-consuming yes, but not more than I found time for all my other activites also.
You misunderstood what hardcore raiders are - if you catagorize yourself as one, and having a job and a life.
It's not stereotyping, it's facts. A hardcore raider raids around 12 hours a day - 6 days a week. Unless you did that, you were softcore or casual.
I play like you describe yourself, and I dont consider it hardcore by any standards
I find it amusing that even between us gamers we resort to stereotypes. We humans are indeed a sad lot, judging eachother left and right based on very few facts.
I used to be, what you lot call a hardcore raider in WoW. This was before TBC when raids really where hard. We raided in the weekends mostly, taking the easy raids in the weekdays at the evening. I did have a job back then and I still got the same job today, had what you would call a life, spent time with my friends, partied alot and generally had a great time. I still found time for raiding. That you had to sell your soul to some raiding guild if you wanted to see mc/bwl/ony/eq etc is just bullshit. It was time-consuming yes, but not more than I found time for all my other activites also.
You misunderstood what hardcore raiders are - if you catagorize yourself as one, and having a job and a life.
It's not stereotyping, it's facts. A hardcore raider raids around 12 hours a day - 6 days a week. Unless you did that, you were softcore or casual.
I play like you describe yourself, and I dont consider it hardcore by any standards
Hmm, so all Hardcore raiders is on wellfare? and shit n' piss their pants, cause their too busy raiding, to go to the toilet? all hardcore raiders get their food delivered to the computer by their parents?
GF nihilum, you cleared WoTLK, but you smell so bad...!
But Lich King isn't dead - they havn't beaten all of the expansion yet :P
Blizzard didn't open up everything, and besides, who cares what professional gamers do? (professional as in getting paid to play a game)
People playing the expansion to experience it will find months and months of good fun in it, but I guess if you have been playing wotlk for 4-5 months (as these guilds have), it's no biggie to clear the content.
What Blizzard needs to do, is to hire a 50-100 man inhouse team to test the content themselves and no betas, then these guys would have taken over 2 months to clear the few dungeons they have.
The vendor gear doesn't even have stats in there.
That was my point. Wow is gear based, if you take the crappiest gear you ain't comming far unluss you have a whole guild to help you out.
Did you even bother to read what all I wrote?
But Lich King isn't dead - they havn't beaten all of the expansion yet :P
Blizzard didn't open up everything, and besides, who cares what professional gamers do? (professional as in getting paid to play a game)
People playing the expansion to experience it will find months and months of good fun in it, but I guess if you have been playing wotlk for 4-5 months (as these guilds have), it's no biggie to clear the content.
What Blizzard needs to do, is to hire a 50-100 man inhouse team to test the content themselves and no betas, then these guys would have taken over 2 months to clear the few dungeons they have.
okay so they cleard instances that is equal to what? karazhan? and the harder once will come later? i dont play wow, thats why i ask..
Bliz don't give a crap about the casual gamer. It's the 9 million + Chinese players they need to make content accesiable for. Go see how net time in MMO's work for chinese and you'll see why raid design has changed.
Any gaming company that could be bothered breaking into that market could as easily open up to that many subscribers. Over 210 million net users at the end of 207 and that was growing at a rate of 200 new users per minute, most of which were under the age of 30. Do some research and these things become a little clearer.
There's a reason why you don't have to buy WoW xpacks in China. That's for us mugs to pay for. In China they just add it to your account and off you go with your free DL of the content...
The vendor gear doesn't even have stats in there.
That was my point. Wow is gear based, if you take the crappiest gear you ain't comming far unluss you have a whole guild to help you out.
Did you even bother to read what all I wrote?
People read what you write, but it doesen't help much when you do such a poor job at expresing yourself.
No game is that gear based. Try to play Wows endgame with crappy stuff you bought from a vendor and you see how gear based it and almost all other MMOs are.
Only exception I seen so far is Guildwars.
All MMOs require skills. But it can't be that hard and demand so much skill if it takes 68 1/2 hours?
No, I have nothing against Wow but saying it is a skill based game where gear doesn't matter is just wrong. Wow is one of the easier MMOs out there.
68 1/2 hours is very deceptive since this guild spent months in beta rehearsing these encounters over and over while they were created.
My point was not that WoW requires more skill than any other game, but that obviously it was skill of the players defeated these encounters and not strength of items which is something people often claim about WoW.
As for WoW being easier than other MMOs, that is just something we are going to have to disagree on. I find WoW has more challenging gameplay, but is easier in a sense that the tedium is removed. I am not of the opinion that gameplay needs to be punishing and time consuming to make up for lack of challenge.
Personally I think the expansion was released a bit early and the end game not tested sufficiently (not that it would have changed the outcome of SK-Nihilium guild did), but I have little reasonable data to support that.
seriously, you are always going to have players that do this crap. There are always people that just play the game and do nothing else. There is no reason to start complaining about how easy the content is. People said the same thing about The Burning Crusade, and I bet half of the 11 million still didn't see Illidan after the 30% hp nerf.
and for the EQ players, I was one from 2001 to 2004. I guess no one remebers Casus Belli or Landslide... guilds the cleared content the week the xpac came out.
just because a group of HARDCORE players can clear the content in a short amount of time. It doesnt mean the content is watered down.
stop trying to find something to complain about and enjoy the game.
- Air
Not sure if you're reading all the posts here properly Loke. Its less than 1% of 1% that has SEEN any of this endgame content.
Remember in your high school days there was always one or two kids that got A's, even on stuff that the teacher didn't cover yet as pop quizzes, and the teacher was so impressed, they'd make MORE side stuff just to keep them busy? Well, these guys are the WoW equilivent. This was not 'fast' at all to them, it's normal. As has been stated over and over to the point of whipping that dead horse back alive... they are the best, they practice EVERY day working in beta towards this. THESE are hardcore gamer. THESE are the guys who write the strategy guides that YOUR guild leaders copy/paste/tell you guys to read up on your sites.
I'm not sure which hardcore gamers you are referring to but THIS is them. THESE are the guys who you keep trying to reference. You, me, and the vast majority of people reading and posting here ARE the CASUALS, even if you spend 10 hours a day playing some MMO, youre probably still not 'hardcore'. We just THINK we are hardcore. You are chatting and fishing and farming and yakking on Vent, goofing around most of the day. Now thats fine cause you pay/play how you want. But don't confuse /time played with superior gaming skill and know how. So what you have 1, 000 hours. What did you do in those 1,000 hours? AFK and go cut your lawn? (I've done it lol).
I think thats the problem here, too many think they are "hardcore" and experts on how to make MMOs and what's wrong with this one and what's wrong with that one (myself included at times for sure) when in reality we really have the smallest clues. These guys know.
For the 'hardcore gamer' you are probably talking about, this will last them 1 year before they say this stinks or that stinks, even though they don't finish all the content. Theyll quit and say they quit cause it was too easy and they got bored. Even though, again, most of them don't see the endgame content completed but would have liked to. That old Aesop's fable about the fox and the sour grapes applies way more times than not in an MMO. "I woulda/coulda did that, but the game was too lame so why bother. I tried, but it sucked so I quit."
And as a correction, its not the hardcore who pays the bills. Thats only on niche MMOs that keep a dying population going way longer than it should have lasted. "Lore" hardcore players will keep MMOS up long past their expiration date. The casual player is the bread and butter of MMOs. Blizzard knows this and that is why they sell millions of copies. They know something Warhammer, AoC, FFXI, Vanguard, SWG, Darkfall, Hellgate, and any number of failed or failing MMOs haven't figured.
Most of us are really, at heart, casuals players. Thats why they get the money.
"TO MICHAEL!"
They didn't get banned and reset back to 70 did they?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!