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Choke Hold on Ryzom
Ryzom is a good game and fun to play. The biggest problem i see is the choke hold the vet players have on it. Outposts are being held by guilds with 4 active members. New players are seen as unworthy because they have not been here since beta. Vets wake up......new players leave because of this. Stop expecting new players to bow before your greatness and excepting what you will allow them to have. Keep this up and a year from now you will be seeing the game go belly up for the forth time. And you can go play Vanguard, WoW or Star Gate and be the noobs for once. People think there is nothing to do in this game because they are not allowed to experiance it.
Comments
Hmmm I haven't seen any of this.
The vets I've played with have been awesome. They offer a helping hand and advice.
Just a couple weeks ago I had a four year old Vet help me level my digging for FIVE hours!
The guy got nothing out of it, he wasn't even in my guild he was just a cool person.
I don't see how a group of new players couldnt specialize and form a guild and start fighting for OPs.
In every game you will run into elitist pigs, imo Ryzom doesn't have many.
Most of them actually want players to learn the game and level up so they have more players to team with, fight with and fight against.
Edit: im not even 250 in a combat tree yet and my guild has let me help out in four OP battles already.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Thing is, easy as always, that the Opener is not entirely false nor is his tatement entirely true.
Some Folks will always lord it over Newbes, as can be seen in a certain Quote on these very boards.
"Beat the noobs, they aren't worthy." Funny that you of all people should say this and complain about some people not taking Newbes for real...
Anyway, I may be misinterpreting this statement, but to give credit to the discussion and your point, as stated, some people DO like to treat Newbes like shit and do expect them to do the gruntwork for them and such.
But, isn´t that the case in every freaking game out there?
So, what´s new? And why is this known fact, while it is sad and even more sadly unavoidable, making Ryzom a bad Game? Or us a bad community?
Some people simply act this way. It´s as sure as the sky is blue and don´t you go telling me now that its azure or somesuch
If you get into contact with such idiots, well... maybe you should try someone else for company.
Not all of us are this way and I personally am glad to help any Newbe I encounter and even give him/her some of my heard earned rewards and let him/her take part of my skills to further his/her advancement on Atys. And I know MANY people who do exactly the same.
If you´re speaking of attacking and occupining an oupost, well then you will have to train hard, make lots of friends, maybe even start a guild with them, train with them and finally challange the Outpost.
Thats simply the way it is, some things DO take time and its silly to expect someone who´s got a firm hold of something to simply move over once somone new arrives. I´d not leave my appartment if somone came up to me and declared, "Hey I wanna live in this house and need a bed. Get outta there."
I´d reconsider the notion if he returned with some friends, but then I probably woudn´t even open the dorr to them and call for help.
But, I guess you get the metaphor.
CU
SaM
Do you dare to adapt?
There are bad apples in every game, Ryzom has very few of them. The truth is they don't survive in Ryzom because everyone knows eachother, bad players are quickly handle by the community in most cases, and by the CSR's. There are some hardcore guilds in Ryzom that do control Outposts (OP), some even have alts and alt guilds to control OP's yes. But that doesn't necesarily mean they get to keep them forever. Some OP are only control under RP theme guilds to help the community balance the distribution of catalizers. This is why even a guild without an OP is able to stack their guild hall with OP consumables. Any OP can be challenge, all it takes is a guild and some friends to prepare and fight, it is after all the PvP content of the game. I see no choke hold like you say.
To say new players are unworthy is a ridiculous statement. I can't think of any guild that wouldn't welcome new players, and even help new starting guilds get established...I'm a witness and example of this kind gesture. When I started the Sirens of Atys many guilds offered me help in gathering materials for crafting, weapons, gear, catalizers, etc... It can be done, just not in a few weeks hun, it takes years to establish a guild. Many of the guilds in Ryzom are the product of years of hard work. If a guild has been there since Beta than I think that is more positive about the game and guild as a whole than the bad rummors you are trying to start.
A player who expects to be handheld and baby throughout the game won't last long in Ryzom because he isn't learning anything. I've seen many, many, many players burn themselves out because they want to get the 250 titles, and once they get it, a gingo comes along and eats them up in 4-5 hits. Powerleveling in Ryzom does not pay. Expecting to be top dog from the start is not possible in this game. Like in any society everyone has to earn the respect of others as well as contribute to the community in order to be part of it. Bad mouthing in Uni, or on forums will only earn you a quick ticket to the ignored list, and once you are there Atys eats you up like noobs eat up yubos.
If you trully like the game than play it and enjoy it. Treat others like they treat you and if you don't like the politics then try and change them...but don't quit and vent on here about a choke hold that doesn't exist because you feel unapreciated as a new player.
To think you thought i was a lost noob..nope..........i was there in 04..........left the game......and came back. played for 2 years...left..came back...server down. Been playing since there servers came back up. I am not some one that doesn't know the game. I have came back to see what is going on. Maybe a character reset is what is needed. Take all the vets that have grown full of their selves and put them on a lvl playing field with the people getting new accounts. Oh yes i would loose my 250's to but if this game is going to continue the devs are going to have to shake things up. How else will 10 outposts held by 5 people each all coming to the rescue of each other change. How many times will i hear an 04 player saying " I will not have a noob talk to me that way". People still help each other....but in the long run they are setting the new player up to be used. Dive into the game look at neutral guilds that have uber alts that they change to so no one knows who they are......just to keep the vets feeling comfy and things running how the vets want.
I am helping new players.....and i hope the posts here are from people who are to.
When the servers go down again all of us 04 vets are to blame..
Do "vets" have a choke hold on Ryzom? I doubt it, in fact I think that some of the people you accuse of being "vets" aren't. I see people in Uni talking like they know every detail of the game and are on a first name basis with every line of code that make up both client and server and their names are (were) new to me...
Now I could be wrong here but if I wanted to keep newbies down I'd make sure I played my cards close to my chest in other words explain nothing, give away nothing and certainly not help anyone that wasn't firmly under my control. That's not the kind of behavior I see in Uni, quite the opposite in fact.
Would a player that started in 04 say: " I will not have a noob talk to me that way"? I've never heard anyone say that in Ryzom, ever! And even if it was said, how do you know it was a "04 player"? Frankly I think there aren't nearly enough "04 players" around to force newer players to do anything even if they wanted to...
So would a sever wipe change things like you hope? I'm sorry but no, it won't. The veterans have more experience not only in game but, they've also been playing Ryzom longer, they know the shortcuts to the cap, the lay of the land and how to power level, they will reform the old guilds, and all will be back to the way things were. A server wipe will not create a level playing field because the field wasn't level to begin with, even without the "vets" some would move much faster through the game simply because they're better at it while other choose to go slow in to try and avoid burn out.
So what about the outposts? Well if you want em, you fight form em that's how it's meant to be they're PvP content and as such are held by people who will hold on to them at all costs. In otherwords OP's are working as intended. Like it or leave it, it's not like the game becomes unplayable without access to OP consumables.
Oh and one more thing 5 people holding all the outposts? You don't really believe that do you?
Sounds to me like your just throwing your toys out of the pram because you simply don't have an outpost.
A reset wouldn't make a difference, the guilds holding the outposts are the ones that have put in the hardwork into both the guild itself and the community as stated in a previous post.
It's not always about levels.
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Founder of The Divine Council of Pyr
MMO: Ryzom - RF Online
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Ryzom FREE Trial: PLAY NOW!!! - The must play MMO!
Sounds like you are angry about some specific people and specific issues, and generalizing it to everything and everyone.
The only way a four person guild holds an outpost is by having a whole lot of friends, which they didn't make by being jerks to new players. Please feel free to gather even more friends and take it away.
I've never ever ever heard anyone put down new players the way you have described, but I'm sure it has happened once in a while. People can be stupid when they base their self worth on being "better" than others at a game. Nonetheless, you seem to inhabit a different Atys than the one I know. Maybe you need to find new people to hang out with.
Oh, and I'm glad to know I won't be to blame if things go bad again... since I only started in January of 2007, and still have no 250s at all. :P
I might have a 250 by now if I didn't spend so much time talking to and helping new players, but I wouldn't trade the fun I've had meeting new people for even a single additional skill level. I've found that attitude to be the typical one among "vets", quite contrary to the bleak outlook you see.
Perhaps you should bring it up on the official forums with a few more specifics. Name some names.
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Sasi
Guild Leader of Pegasus Foundation
in Ryzom
I've been there since 2004 my self and like you have left the game and returned. I still don't see what you are talking about. Like Matchielge said not all that talk like vets are vets...you are basing your experienced on a few and generalizing the atmoshpere of the game to a vision that isn't there. What five control the OP's? Don't confuse alts, friendships, aliances into a Natzy superior sect that control OP's. You obviously know nothing about the real politics of the game. I've been one that played on all sides of the Faction conflics, and neutralitity isn't a hiding place for alts to please the old vets...you make it sound like these "fabulous five" control the decisions all players make in regards to what side they choose to be in. I can assured you, those who play Ryzom are on the side they themselves choosed. Not because the "fabulous five" dictate who goes where. Ridiculous. Do you even know the restrictions Neutral's have? I doubt anyone chooses neutrality because they want to keep the old vets happy. And guess what I'm neutral. I also don't like to use cats, and I don't care for PvP. And none of those influenced my decision to go neutral after having 98 Kami fame.
A reset of the game isn't going to help either, it has been stated before and many good points (which I'm too tired to dictate here), were brought up as to the reasons why it wouldn't help. When word came back that Ryzom was returning I hoped for a reset (selfishly so), because I wanted to start fresh and re-experience Ryzom like it was new again. I wanted old things to return, like the Kitin patrols, and digging spots moved, fauna and flora changed, I still do. None of this will changed how OP's are conquered and control, the same people who own OP will go after them again, and they will get them because that is what they like to do, they enjoy the PvP content, they enjoy the Ryzom politics. Ryzom is a sandbox, you can do anything you like when you like. But YOU have to do it...so if you want to change how OP's are managed then go and fight for one.
To say that new players are being used by the old vets implies that new players can't make their own damd minds. Ridiculous.
Yes name some names. I have been only playing since september and as a noob myself I have never experienced a better community in all the 20 or so MMO's I have played in last several years. Everyone I have met in Ryzom will go out of thier way to be helpful and friendly. The only time I have met someone with a bad attitude is usually on Silan Island(the newbie Island) but those "bad apples" are usually weeded out quite quickly. I find it quite possible to soon get to know almost everyone on the server, at least all the ones who use Uni chat. I am a very social person and I talk to almost everyone I see and have yet to meet ANYONE that has been rude or offensive in any way.
Listen to Sasi as she is quite wise
I think the problem is not so much the veteran players as it is the game mechanics. New guilds of new players have little chance to succeed. As it stands now the only tangible guild goal is taking and holding an OP. The only way to get an OP is to take from someone else, for those who prefer to avoid PvP, there is no way for guild accomplishments to be recognized by the game. New guilds also have a very small chance of competing with established guilds. There needs to be some way to reward guild effort within the mechanics of the game that does not require taking something from someone else.
Creating a system where guilds can reach goals, feel like they are contributing to the world without having to compete with established guilds would be very high on my priority list. I do think players leave the game because they feel they are forced to compete with guilds that are four years their senior. It is a tough enough road for new guilds to develop their crafters and martial skills without the daunting task of realizing you will have to one day usurp the spot held by an established guild in order for your efforts to be recognized by any game mechanic.
In short, the guild system is far from ideal.
That is a known fact. Competing against the well established guilds is just hard, very hard. Not impossible but definitely not Newbie Friendly. And recruiting as a new guild is a tad nightmarish since new players mostly want a guild that can provide them with all the gear they want before yesterday and, worse, if they taste cats too soon and get addicted, they WILL want a guild that already has an outpost to feed their addiction.
For a guild that has neither master crafters nor an outpost, recruiting is difficult. Raising master harvesters and crafters is difficult. But not impossible. How many people will be willing to put in the hard work to start from scratch now, though ? Very few. Also, getting a master level in craft is one thing. Knowing how to craft GOOD stuff is a completely different thing. And knowing where and how to obtain the required materials to craft such goodies is also a factor to consider. None of those things involve possessing an outpost though. OP mats and tools are a bonus to the equation, not a requirement.
The answer to this equation is 42 : get to know people who have what you need, offer them what they need and trade. Getting what you want in a game that has such heavy politics sometimes require a bit of whoring out. Be helpful and be helped is the only way to obtain what your guild needs without really feeling dependant from other guilds. I really hate feeling like I'm begging, really.
Our guild had an outpost before the servers went down. I was handing out cats weekly, throwing them by the windows. The guild hall was getting full and it was almost hard to find people that actually wanted q150 cats. After relaunch, when Holy Knights took our Outpost, I was almost glad to not have to worry about that anymore. Getting cats is a bit harder (especially q250s since the population is higher than it was back then), but our guild hall is still running out of free slots.
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Sherkalyn
Crazy Marshmallow Lady
Guild Leader of The Exodus Syndicate in Ryzom
"Experience Perfection :: Unharness Your Power"
www.exodusgs.com
Note: I've only been playing Ryzom for about 4 days now.
with that said, I can't say I've experienced this so-called chokehold from the Vets. most of the vets I've spoken to and interacted with were very welcoming, patient, polite, and helpful. I've been helped in every way possible, and some of these folk even have been checking up on me to see how things are going, now that I've moved over to the mainland.
The community of this game is pretty refreshing, for certain.
Another reason Ryzom needs a fresh server launch. The OP speaks the truth.
You are repeating yourself. A new server won't be populated enough and will end up being merged just like Cho was. Restarting the current ones from scratch would only cause yet another massive exodus, which, at a time like this, can only be fatal. Either ways, you'll end up not playing.
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Sherkalyn
Crazy Marshmallow Lady
Guild Leader of The Exodus Syndicate in Ryzom
"Experience Perfection :: Unharness Your Power"
www.exodusgs.com
outposts tend to be factional toys (unless everyone loves you) so to be "worthy" of an op you have to be part of a faction. secondly the faction doesnt just give you an op, you have to show willing to work with them first and actually earn their respect. Asking for full help on a q250 op will get you nowhere without the background work that goes with it.
If you think you should just be allowed to take one because you think you deserve one you are sadly mistaken,
OK, I have to stick my nose into this thread again.... (sorry)
There are two ways to get an outpost:
1. Be so freakin' tough that you can take one and nobody can stop you.
2. Make friends who will help you get one.
There are two ways to keep an outpost:
1. Be so freakin' tough that you can defend one and nobody can stop you.
2. Have enough friends that you can have one and nobody can or will take it away from you.
That's it. Period. All else is either some variation of that, or pure BS.
There are more guilds than outposts, by far. New guilds without the strength or the influence can't get one. Why should that be a problem?
If you want to be an OP owning guild, get ridiculously strong or make tons of friends. Otherwise, live without an outpost and enjoy all the other things you could be doing, like every other guild in that situation. (Including mine, at present.)
I've already stated other opinions in this thread, so I'll try not to be redundant, but I do want to add just a bit:
Veteran players CANNOT STOP YOU from experiencing the game. They have no power over you. You can pretend they don't exist with the one exception of trying to take away an outpost from them. If someone bugs you or tries to put you down, put them on your ignore list and go merrily on about your business.
(Of course, I think ignoring all veteran players would be a shame, since the vast majority of them are nice, friendly, helpful people and you'll miss out on their excellent company and the help they could give you.)
Oh, and just to beat a dead horse one more time, the fresh server start has already been tried, and was a failure which changed nothing. Unless you have some fresh twist, like miraculously preventing any experienced player from creating a character on the new server, please stop with the boring repetition.
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Sasi
Guild Leader of Pegasus Foundation
in Ryzom
<sarcasm> Imagine how much more fun MMO's would be if there was a server wipe everytime too many people hit the level cap </sarcasm>
Ok I think everyone has answered this one to death and I feel we're just getting no where. Its unfortunate that some players feel they deserve all the candy in the box over others and nothing less will satisfy them. Most vets I know, including myself, try their best to help new playeers survive on Atys. But, we always meet those players who feel having Supreme armor or weapons will make it easier to level or something, while we know far too well besides out growing it quickly at the early slill lvls (20 -100) its a waste of prime mats best used on higher lvls since Choice or even Exec will do the job in the same fashion and time.
We cannot please every new player that comes along but, we try. Those that ask or want too much need to move on. Those that want sweeping changes just to somehow benefit themselves can move on quicker.... enuff said.
I argued hard for the need for a new, start from 0 server because of that sort of thing, but the vets all yelled at me. Of course they would, they want to keep their superpowerful lead and lord it over the servers
Interesting to see that it turned out that way anyway despite their assurances (I am sure you can do a search for my user in this forum section and find said posts lol)
That's usually what happens in old games anyway. But rest assured, new ones coming up will have similar style crafting with much more modern engines and graphics.. that's all I can say about that due to NDA's
I argued hard for the need for a new, start from 0 server because of that sort of thing, but the vets all yelled at me. Of course they would, they want to keep their superpowerful lead and lord it over the servers
Interesting to see that it turned out that way anyway despite their assurances (I am sure you can do a search for my user in this forum section and find said posts lol)
That's usually what happens in old games anyway. But rest assured, new ones coming up will have similar style crafting with much more modern engines and graphics.. that's all I can say about that due to NDA's
What you're suggesting has been done before, it was called Cho and it didn't work. It was merged with Ari as a cost reduction but even before that it wasn't the safe haven for newbies you seem to think a "fresh" server would be because a lot of players from other servers rerolled a char on Cho.
The "problem" ,if you can call it a problem , is that MMO's are designed to run a long time which means there will always be people with a head start simply because they joined earlier. If blizzard decided to do a server wipe because too many people had hit the level cap and were wearing epics chances are blizz HQ would be burned to the ground by angry players.
Fact is that unless your start at launch there will always be people more "powerful" and some of those might even want to "lord" over the server if you can't handle that there's a perfect solution for you it's called: single player. There you'll always be as powerful as your skill allows you to be. In a multiplayer game you'll have to content with those horrible "people" with their own expectations of the game and they won't, in most cases, give up what they've achieved just to please you...
And even if you start at launch there might be people moving faster through the levels leaving you lagging behind...
In closing I' like to say that at least in Ryzom most, if not all, real veterans (and there are fewer than most people think) will help newbies where ever and when ever they can...
EDIT:
After cooling off a bit I started to think that maybe you just got stuck in with the worst guild ever, and your guild leaders should be shot. If so I apologize, and recommend that you try playing with different people - anybody else. I've never heard of anyone doing the things you've claimed, ever. But I guess it could happen, somewhere dark and dreary and out of touch with the rest of us. I'll leave the rant below, just for reference, but hope you'll forgive me for the anger in it.
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Wow. Wow. That is the single biggest pile of lying BS I have ever read here. Bar none.
The vets told you you were wrong because you were wrong, because it was tried and proven wrong.
There is no such thing as vets "lording it over" anybody in Ryzom... the game doesn't work that way, it's not a competition between individuals, and your play is not affected in any way AT ALL by the presence of people with higher levels in one skill or another.
The vets in Ryzom tie themselves in knots, even to the point of burning themselves out and quitting, to try to HELP new players have more fun. Your lies are an insult to the fantastic people I have known in the game.
The game is just as fun with skills at level 10 as it is with skills at level 250, unless your whole reason to play a game is to inflate your ego by "being more leet" than somebody else, in which case Ryzom is not the game for you. Sounds like that is exactly what you are looking for in a game, so please stay away and have fun with your ego somewhere else.
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Sasi
Guild Leader of Pegasus Foundation
in Ryzom