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Anofalye
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433
in Everquest II
If I want to be the best soloer on the server, what did I need to do? RAID!
If I want to be the best grouper on the server, what did I need to do? RAID!
If those answers please you, enjoy, they certainly deter me.
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Comments
Yup, I understand that. If it was only that, I would be happy to settle for it.
I WANT to be the best soloer and/or grouper of the server, the fact I reach it or not is irrelevant, as long as I am walking the path toward it. Walking the raiding path is NOT for me. The raiding path is the only and best path toward those goals in actual form, detering.
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
"SOE shot my dog, killed my parents, stole my wife, and kiddnapped my lawn gnome."
This place is full of tree-huggers and tofu fartn' faeries...
Also i rather have lesser gear then the raiders, but i would be more proud of my solo obtained gear then i would be with gear gotten from raids. (but thats my playingstyle).
Tell that to a paladin that cant solo the EQ dragons while a raider that NEVER solo before can.
Tell that to the folks that cant access the zone at all to solo much more strongers mobs.
The rewards is a direct part of the equation, and if solo dont handle solo uberness, then the best soloer didnt earn his stuff soloing, which is wrong.
If you cant get the simplest folks(soloers) happy, how can you keep the majority happy and do what is good for the greater number as they say.
Eventually, even with the best skill and tactics, if you dont have the gear to back it up(in a gear system), you cant do it.
I dont ask for soloers to be good at anything else then soloing. I never did. But they need to have the best gear as far as soloing is concerned, and to progress the best. They need to hold to a logic that say if you progress with others, you aint a real soloer and you progress slower in solo land.
That would not harm grouping. Peoples will do what they want, because grouping need to hold group uberness, and nothing else should give the best grouping tools. You solo all the time, it is natural to be weaker in groups. Same logic around. Folks would group because they find soloing boring, because they want to talk, to have interactions with others, not because it is what they NEED to do.
I would settle for ANY system where I dont have to go raiding althought, I am an evil selfish centered player that LOVE both soloing and grouping. If you want pure soloers and pure groupers in the game althought, you dont have any choice or saying in those topic, each system need to be sovereign(someone doing something else progressing slower and not having access to the best without actually doing the right action).
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
________________________________
I must not fear, fear is the mind killer
fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, i must permit fear to pass over me and through me.
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________________________________
I must not fear, fear is the mind killer.
Fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, I must permit fear to pass over me and through me.
________________________________
So, basically what you're asking for is uber loot that is somehow solo only? That somehow doesn't upset the game balance if someone wears it in a group. How will this super solo loot know the person wearing it is actually solo or not?
Maybe it's just me, but this idea just doesn't seem very well thought out.
Please forgive my ingnorance on this, but one thing I dont understand bout people who want to Solo on an MMO is that to me. even in definition. A MMO - A multiple player Online Roly Playing Game. To me that spells out why a devoloper of an MMO doesn't concentrate on "solo play". Hell, There is plenty of offline games that you can play by yourself. An MMO is designed to bring people from around the world to group and enjoy the community and socialsm of the game.
Scampers
Siolenas
There we go again, the stupid remarks about people who like to solo
should play a single player game, have you ever seen a single player
game that has the same stuff as a mmorpg? If people like to solo
that doesnt mean they never group, talk to people, ask for help,
help other people, join guilds or whatever, it just means they like
to solo alot. Next thing you will tell people that like to tradeskill
to play simfarm or something. MMORPG does not stand for ýou must
group'it stands for multiple people being online in the same world,
how they fill in that time is totaly up to them and is of no concern
to anybody else but that player, he/she pays just as much for this
game as you do. And the list can go on and on about this subject.
Scampers
Siolenas
Ive sat here and read everything that everyone had to say... and i got a bit of news for you...
yes.. most online games are group orented... but just about every class out there can solo as long as they let you do you stat points... cuz its all in the way you build your char... i myself solo alot even on eq... and im one of the few that can handle red's one on one... that i have met.. .this dont mean there isnt others out there.. just that i havent met them... the reason that most of us solo.. is because we get tired of people thinking they know everything about the game and try to tell you how to play your char... when for the most part they dont even know what there doing with there own...
i happen to love my MMORPG's... but lets face it there some real char..'s in ther... whom noone really want to party with... but reguardless... seems to me.. if you pay attention to what your doing. you can be both good in a party or solo... as to uber gear... personaly i think everyone should have an equal opertunity to get every item in the game... except for quest items.. so the uber gear drops are better on a raid.. but ya can still have the opertonity to get it soloing... even if its not as high...
Just Me
Just Me
Uber solo item can give stats in a solo setting, but in a group setting, you can use slightly variant stats and see those solo items be nearly useless, and so on.
There is already tons of stats and maths tables in the game, adding a few more wont hurt. Someone that raid all his life that come to solo should start against rats. The hardest soloed mobs belong to folks that solo all their way up, to nobody else.
I NEVER ask that a soloer be good in any other system, when he group, he deserve to be backward unless he earn the stuff in a group setting as well, but when others solo, they also deserve to be backward unless they earn their stuff in the solo setting as well.
The give all to raiders era is over with me, I dont buy it any more, I dont mind any group vs solo abuse on a personnal level, but I will recommend against it. Someone that follow orders on a raiding level is the LAST person worthy of solo uberness(hiya DKP lovers). Solo uberness, if you cant earn it on your own, you lack, whatch natural selection as the NPC in commonlands say!
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
First of all, I'd like to say I am an MMO veteran and so I can trust what insight I have to be true. MMOs have never been geared towards solo play. I don't know how you come across that impression when there has yet to be an MMO that is totally about soloing, let alone 50% about soloing. UO wasn't, EQ wasn't, AC wasn't, AC2 wasn't, AO wasn't, CoH wasn't, Eve wasn't, E&B wasn't, DAoC wasn't, WW2 wasn't, PS wasn't, WoW isn't, EQ2 isn't... Do I need to continue?
Then again, perhaps I don't understand what all you "lone wolves" mean by soloing. What exactly doesn't EQ2 offer that would allow you to solo? When you create your list of things to prove your point, I'll come back here and take a look.
One of many,
Rhojan
- Instanced solo challenges with the best solo reward! (no help whatever, this is instanced, alone) The rewards need to make you the best soloer, nobody earning stuff non-solo should have near solo powers to those earning their solo edges! MAYBE you can hired some NPCs to do this or that, bat again, you are alone and you better give the wright commands to the NPCs if you are to succeed(if you want more complexity, using NPCs is a possible solution). No lazy sitting behind another player earning the stuff and you claiming it(DKP logic holdings).
- In CoH I solo some Arch Villains, so saying CoH is not resolving around solo is pretty silly from you, yes, they somewhat try to encourage grouping, but never at the full expense of soloing(or almost never). A soloer level slower, a shame, but I can live with that, especially that I usually make more XP solo then grouped due to all dumbs mistakes and downtimes groups members inflict on you.
- I play since 1998, and despite all what they tried to do, I WILL still prefer soloing. Everytime they enforce anything on me while I rather solo, my love of soloing grow more. I usually group because I feel like talking or doing a good action for ''needies players'' that need a group. I LOVE helping others, but not at the expense of my own good. Raiding is all about that, the undeserving developps systems to claim the work of others and encourage those with unquestionnable loyalties, I am the first to complain when something is wrong, I will not tow a guild UNLESS I choose to, not because it is in their laws and systems! DKP is builded by leech that benefit from the work of the newcomers that want to become leech in turn, this system make me sick.
Not to mention all the politics games they do to cheat the ''working'' class, like keeping high cost on items almost nobody want.
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
The pure raw challenge or the amount of farming stop ''everyone'' from doing it. I never ask for easy solo task. You can put NPCs to commands or whatever you want, as long as the player is solo and DO everything himself(like the commands to NPCs if you must). The limit and separations must be done throught skills, efforts or thinking, not by raid attendency which represent nothing but the lack of freewill and complete slavery! You need solo worth to be focused on the individuals, not on the guilds tag!
EQ2 reward someone that raid and hardly think by himself because he follow raid leader with the best gear, and that is unacceptable. Someone that barely follow the lead of someone else and barely do his part dont deserve solo uberness, he never think by himself, he sit on his DKP logic...Yay!
- CoH, I start 4 characters before finding the solo path I like, if you dont have the resolve to do the same, then dont complain if you cant solo, some archtypes and choices are for groups, some are for solo, and they didnt babysit you. And...it was pretty obvious that the defender was the less solo friendly choice, althought some soloing is possible, it is definitely the worst solo pick, and I would not be claiming high and strong that a HEALER is not a good soloer, it was obvious, you are healing, groups want YOU!
To be solo friendly, the best soloers need to earn their stuff soloing, if they lack the resolve to do it soloing, then they must accept they wont be top soloers! If a groupers have some solo edges, then soloers need to have the same groups edges, and since groupers find this unacceptable, you must cut the ropes from both side of the bridge!
You either build a system where every path lead to the TOP, or a stystem where each path lead only to THEIR TOP. A path that lead to all TOPs is unacceptable to all folks taking others paths. If raiders find it unacceptable that soloers are good in raids, that is fine with me, but in return, raiders wont be good in solo, this go both way, it is not a 1 way thing. Each path rewards is to be build on skills, efforts, thinking, either they all give the TOP of everything, or they only give the TOP of their own system alone. If a raider is good at soloing, I need to be as good in both soloing and raiding, if this is unacceptable, then my lacking at outside soloing come with the prices that outsiders will lack in soloing as well.
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Ok so im trying to get what you think on this subject, correct me if i am wrong but you are saying that you think soloers should get better drops than raid and group encounters? Well if so, i don't quite agree. Why would you want a bigger reward for killing somthingweak enough that you can take down on your own? It is more of an acomplishment for someone to pull a group togeather and take out a tough mob as a team. Team work is a big thing they implimented into EQ2. Heroic opportunities allow groups to do powerfull attacks if certains skills are done properly. Not only that they try to make it so you want to keep your group members alive because if they die, you get exp debt ( I don't like this though, cause people do stupid crap and i get punished for it). I don't know if you have ever taken down a raid encounter but it takes a lot of planning and sometimes the fight can last over 2 hours. Comintment such as that deserves a reward. Not killing a creature that can be killed by one person.
All im trying to say is that you shouldnt get rewarded for just walking up to a mob by your self and killing it withough needing any assistence. Taking the time to put togeather a group of people and try to take down somthing you can't do alone is somthing that should be rewarded more.
Playing: Vanguard SoH
Played: EQ, Planetside, SWG, WoW, EQ2
ENFORCING another game style is wrong.
Solo uberness belong to soloers before anyone else.
Group uberness belong to groupers before anyone else.
And so on with every topic.
As long as raiding give the best solo and grouping tools(while solo and groups dont even give those same rewards), I am out of EQ2 or any MMORPGs(you understand why I love CoH, 8 persons at most, I can live with that).
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
You dont get the point. I never ask that a soloer get the best raiding tool. All I ask is that soloers get the best solo tools. I cant care less if those tools are good at anything else then soloing. But the best road to solo uberness need to be earned throught soloing. Raids leaders are worthy persons, raid followers aint half as worthy as a good soloer. You cant ask that soloers bear leading RL folks in order to achieve solo uberness, it is a nonsense, it is about been solo uber, nothing else here. I dont mind if raids officers get those solo rewards as well as a bonus for leading a raid, but raid followers, if they get those rewards, then I need raid reward, so they better not get those solo rewards tools.
I barely raid like 500 hours, which is like nothing for some persons and I HATE it. If you are going to give the rewards of soloing and grouping throught favorising raidind, I am out. I dont see skills in following someone else lead, it take lot of time waiting and doing boring stuff instead of playing, which is only worthy of disgust, nothing else.
Give me 100 NPCs to command and stucture my raid alone and I will not complain, it is not boringly waiting while others are doing stuffs and ask you to be ready. I NEED to be doing the stuff, and it need to be done with a group or less of RL persons because otherwise I will be out as soon as politic enter, I am playing a RPG, not a political game to get the loot over someone else.
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT! What? So you say the rewards for raids are tools used to solo? NO!! The better equipment, lets say a tank has in a group, the better the group does... Its not to make the soloing easier for the player, it is to make the over all player better... better for raids (because you NEED to be tough in order to survive the hits these things deal), better for grouping, and yes... better for soloing...
Let me put it this way, would you be proud of your self and think you deserve MVP if you beat 15 little kids in a game of football all on your own? NO! you beat little kids!!! Now what if you and a whole team won the world series against a really good team? Would you feel proud then? Like you deserve a reward?
Playing: Vanguard SoH
Played: EQ, Planetside, SWG, WoW, EQ2
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT! What? So you say the rewards for raids are tools used to solo? NO!! The better equipment, lets say a tank has in a group, the better the group does... Its not to make the soloing easier for the player, it is to make the over all player better... better for raids (because you NEED to be tough in order to survive the hits these things deal), better for grouping, and yes... better for soloing...
Let me put it this way, would you be proud of your self and think you deserve MVP if you beat 15 little kids in a game of football all on your own? NO! you beat little kids!!! Now what if you and a whole team won the world series against a really good team? Would you feel proud then? Like you deserve a reward?
I dont want to pick on 15 kids. I want to pick on solo uber stuff and it better give the best solo tools.
The best assassin in the world was NOT a regular soldier, he was a stealthy guy that learn how to kill fast and silently. The best dancer in the world was not a soldier, it was someone that learn to dance and practice a lot. The best janitor in the world is not a soldier or a doctor, it is someone that repair and clean a lot and developp tons of trics. The best soloer need to be a soloer and nothing else.
Can a janitor be proud of a job well done? Yes. Can a soloer be proud of soloing well done and better then any non-soloer could do? Yes it better be! Give me solo challenge and solo rewards, this is what I want. Dont enforce and hide behind a logic of more folks. If they are more it is because they are weak and they cant do alone(solo logic)!
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Do you really think there are specific items for people that solo, group, or raid? That is not how it works. You dont get better equipment so you can solo better, or group better... the equipment you get makes you better all around... It is just that the better equipment comes from really strong mobs that require a few people to kill it. It takes more time. Why should you get good "solo" armor ( which doesnt mean anything btw, all the armor does is make you better all around) for killing ONE and only ONE mob in oh i dont know... 2 MINUTES!? It doesnt take time to solo one mob... because im sure unless your a cleric you cant heal yourself and fight for hours alone with one mob... and still you wouldnt have enough mana... you need support for stronger mobs.
Playing: Vanguard SoH
Played: EQ, Planetside, SWG, WoW, EQ2
You can't solo stuff in this game unless it is weaker than you or matched up with you... you would already need to be uber to take on stronger aponents... AND YOU CANT GET UBBER SOLOING STUFF WEAKER THAN YOU! You would need to kill somthing stronger than you, that drops very good armor... but you cant do that alone can you? You need a group or a raid to get that uber "Solo" gear you want so bad... you cant take on a lvl 30 mob at lvl 20 alone...
Playing: Vanguard SoH
Played: EQ, Planetside, SWG, WoW, EQ2