I too HATE the "potential" argument which is why I hated Tabula Rasa with a passion in beta and launch.
I went back a few months ago and I loved it. This game has matured and developed. It is not about potential, this game is 10 X better than most of the crap out there right now.
Play NC failed this game. If you haven' t played this game within the last 6 months, you forfeit your right to convey an educated opinion. I am not saying everyone will like this game, but it did become something good when it was crap to begin with.
I, for one, will really miss it.
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kids.... kids..... FUCK POTENTIAL! what the hell, every jizz wad has the "potential" to be the next george washington, sadly most of them end up completely useless wastes of space (look at mmorpg.com for example)! potential means nothing! this game promised diamonds and delivered dink. it failed and screw RG for even attempting it (not that he cares i assure you) for its lies deception and trickery (along with shit gameplay and plot) it gets shitcanned, good riddance to bad rubbish, deal with it. dont pretend you care now because this game was crap from closed beta, it never got better despite the promises, even mechs couldnt save it (they were that shittily done). hellgate dying sucked, this however is just what anyone who knows the industry knew would happen. hopefully vanguard is next.
Whoa, what crawled up your ass and died!?
Despite Tabula Rasa being lackluster in the content. It actually was fun.... but content and fanboi's held the game back... this game is riding on alot of potential... but the dev's were just a bunch of retards. Give this game to a REAL dev team... this game would be 10X better.
Hellgate... purely sucked, never was a mmorpg, shouldn't even been treated as one. And Bill Roper is a ass clown, ... that knew his game was going to fail before starting beta.
Vanguard??.... That game is actually good.... dumbass SOE is holding it back, ... cause they knows it's better then their precious EQ.
WHAT!?!?!?!?
Are you kidding me, SOE holding Vanguard back? SOE is responsible for making the game more then halfway-decent, and for pulling something enjoyable out of that steaming waaaaay undercooked pile of rubbish that McQuaid left behind for them to clean up. And they did. Vanguard is only what it is today b/c SOE took it and applied the same formula they used to fix EQ2. Vanguard and EQ2 are alike in soooo many ways, both were games McQuaid started and left before they were complete, both were a mess at launch, and both have recovered to become solid, enjoyable games. Especially EQ2, that game has come a very long way and is now a very solid game. Vanguard is on it's way, it's gotten progressively better and will only continue to improve.
You're theory about holding it back is rediculous. Why would they want to hold it back? They own it outright. They have nothing to gain by holding it back, and only stand to lose if it doesn't succeed.
As for Hellgate....well, I actually kind of liked Hellgate. Should it ever have been labeled as an MMO? No way, no how. Flagship tried to make the game everything, to everyone, and they actually came pretty close, but in the end they lost focus and the game lost it's identity. I think if they would have just went the route of selling the box, and then started working on an xpac, w/ smaller, quality chunks of DLCs to keep the studio running. It turned out that the game actually was fun, it just lacked cohesiveness, and suffered b/c of it.
I can't comment on Tabula Rasa b/c I never got into it. The concept seemed pretty cool, and I definitely feel for the people that called it's world "home". I have to say though that it sure seems Mr.Garriot lost focus at some point. I don't think he has wanted to, or has, design any games in a good long time. The passion for game design has left him, just look at the last couple of games he put out compared to the first couple. His early games were deep, expansive, and more then anything immersive, you could just tell that a lot of love went into the games. But Tabula Rasa, and even the last few Ultima games, lacked that essence. They almost had it, and you could tell that the potential for greatness was there, it was just never fully realized. It's a shame really....
Have you really played Vanguard honestly??? You say what you say like i was bringing it down. Which i never did... i said it's a good game... and by far one of my fav's.
Yes SoE has fixed up the game, but it took them a LONG time to do so. Plus SoE has held back Vanguard a good deal.... that game is no where it could be.
It takes them 2-4 months to bring out a new update... granted their big.... but all the time they put in their precious EQ... they could be making VG alot better.
Any VG fan.. could honestly tell you.. SoE is holding it back from what it can be.
{ Mod Edit }
Ok....you have already contradicted yourself a few times while talking about this, not to mention you resorted to personal attacks which further shows your lack of ability to explain your position and iterate your thoughts. Allow me to point out the flaws in your logic so you can see how little sense your arguments make.
First, yes I have played Vanguard. Am I a Vanguard player? No. I checked it out at release, and have checked back in on it a couple of times since then, and I have to say that I only see improvement in almost every aspect of the game. Vanguard has always oozed potential, but b/c of McQuaids lack to effectively manage a studio, the potential was never fully realized.
SoE saw that potential and saved the game when M$ dropped it, so already if it wasn't for SoE the game never would have even released. Now, they could have just released it, and left it alone, but they didn't. They put a competant team to work on the game, and it has improved immensely.
You complain about how LONG it took them to fix things....that's b/c there was soooo MUCH to fix. The game was a steaming pile of half-finished, unrealized potential when SoE took over, and they made it into a more then decent game.
It takes 2-4 months to release and update you say. Then, in the same breath, you admit that they are large updates, well lets see....I wonder why they take 2-4 months....maybe b/c they put a lot of work into the updates, and said work takes time? mmmmmmm.....logic
Your supposition that SoE puts time and effort into EQ that could be put into Vanguard is equally as rediculous, actually, probably more so, as the rest of your post. There are seperate teams working on each game, so how is time spent developing EQ/EQ2 taking anything away from Vanguard? Oh yeah, it's not.
I'm sorry mate, but if it wasn't for SoE, there wouldn't even be Vanguard. I will give you that it's kind of odd there hasn't been an xpac announced, especially as this IS SoE we're talking about, the company that at one time was releasing an xpac for EQ every 6 months. But to that, I have to assume their recent change in design philosophy is responsible....They no long will rush xpacs out just for the sake of making a few easy bucks. I believe the reason there hasn't been talk of an xpac for Vanguard yet is b/c they want to make sure what is already in the game is where it should be, before expanding on it. It makes sense, no?
Again, I have to reiterate that it makes no sense for SoE to want Vanguard to fail. They own it outright, IP, engine, everything is theirs. So please, tell me why they would want to hold it back? They only stand to gain from making it better, which by your own admission, they HAVE made it bette, so why would they stop now. It's nonsensical to think they would intentionally hold it back.
If you are trying to say that SoE isn't competant enough to help Vanguard live up to it's potential...well, all I can say to that is....neither were it's original dev team, obviously. IMO, there is no one better suited, in the whole of the MMO industry, to turn Vanguard around. They have experience with cleaning up McQuaids abandoned projects, and making them MUCH better games then they were. They did it w/ EQ2, which is actually has a LOT in common w/ Vanguard, both were projects McQuaid started but never finished. Both were in a sad state at release, but b/c of their devotion and hard work, both are MUCH, MUCH better games then they were when they released.
Vanguard is on it's way up, and is only going to get better.
let me ask you this, how, exactly, is SoE holding it back? How could it be made a better game, what needs to be done to make them game what it could be?
1. Please get off your high horse.
2. Yes SoE has saved the game. I already know this... i have a couple 50's in Vanguard... and enjoy the game dearly.
3. They have improved preformance. And added new things into the game.
4.
So what happens is McQuaid very incompotent jackhole... with his dev team, that hasn't made a mmorpg in their life...make Vanguard which already died onced then brought back before SoE came in... mind you. They get screwed out by Microsoft... they know shit storm that was going to come out of Vanguard. Sigil is losing out on time and money. SoE comes in publishes the game, waits for Sigil to die.... and gain another game for themself.
Then Soe After two years, they put in two raid areas. Performance can still be a pain.. after two years. Character customization was gutted and ripped, put back in... numerous character model changes... that could've been spent on something else. Theres some jobs still waiting their class revamp... for christ sakes. After two years... we have gotten way to many mounts, two raid areas, rifts. Hmmmmm guess those updates werent as big as they made them to be.
When there supposed to be all this coool shit in the game.. IE Ship Combat. It really does take them a long time. 2 fucking years!.. to make VG worth anything. SoE knows they can make this game WAYY better then it is. But if they do, it will overshadow their EQ games... and thats been their trademark game for to long now. And the only games they wanted to be truely noted for. So thats why they drag VG on slowly.
EDIT- For got to add... It's not SoE want's VG to fail... but if they wanted it to.. you wouldn't know why?????????? This is SoE who.. destroyed one of the greatest game ever in SWG. And still tell people it was the right decision... and still refuse to go back to the Pre-CU, Pre-NGE.
Potential is the single greatest word destroying our genre.
A lot of devolopers dont even try to finish their content for launch because they ride on the word, they expect us to sit here and swallow a bullshit game because it has potential, and keep playing it for 9 or 10 months while we wait for them to bring the game up to potential. It is unacceptable.
Warhammer is riding potential, so is age of conan, the sooner games start launching in a great state the better, we need more games being good at launch and less game relying on future potential as a reason for us to pay for it for months on end.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Whats funny is this is what got me to stop paying for COH.. Guess ill give DC online a try When it comes out. Least there it get several crappy games i Like to play for a few hours on the station pass every month.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. Samuel Adams
I too HATE the "potential" argument which is why I hated Tabula Rasa with a passion in beta and launch. I went back a few months ago and I loved it. This game has matured and developed. It is not about potential, this game is 10 X better than most of the crap out there right now. Play NC failed this game. If you haven' t played this game within the last 6 months, you forfeit your right to convey an educated opinion. I am not saying everyone will like this game, but it did become something good when it was crap to begin with.
I, for one, will really miss it.
I played it in the last 6 months and thought that it was the same empty shell since launch. It got the fate it deserved. TR devs and RG failed this game. Play NC is not nearly as at fault as the people who failed to do anything with this game for the last year.
kids.... kids..... FUCK POTENTIAL! what the hell, every jizz wad has the "potential" to be the next george washington, sadly most of them end up completely useless wastes of space (look at mmorpg.com for example)! potential means nothing! this game promised diamonds and delivered dink. it failed and screw RG for even attempting it (not that he cares i assure you) for its lies deception and trickery (along with shit gameplay and plot) it gets shitcanned, good riddance to bad rubbish, deal with it. dont pretend you care now because this game was crap from closed beta, it never got better despite the promises, even mechs couldnt save it (they were that shittily done). hellgate dying sucked, this however is just what anyone who knows the industry knew would happen. hopefully vanguard is next.
Whoa, what crawled up your ass and died!?
Despite Tabula Rasa being lackluster in the content. It actually was fun.... but content and fanboi's held the game back... this game is riding on alot of potential... but the dev's were just a bunch of retards. Give this game to a REAL dev team... this game would be 10X better.
Hellgate... purely sucked, never was a mmorpg, shouldn't even been treated as one. And Bill Roper is a ass clown, ... that knew his game was going to fail before starting beta.
Vanguard??.... That game is actually good.... dumbass SOE is holding it back, ... cause they knows it's better then their precious EQ.
WHAT!?!?!?!?
Are you kidding me, SOE holding Vanguard back? SOE is responsible for making the game more then halfway-decent, and for pulling something enjoyable out of that steaming waaaaay undercooked pile of rubbish that McQuaid left behind for them to clean up. And they did. Vanguard is only what it is today b/c SOE took it and applied the same formula they used to fix EQ2. Vanguard and EQ2 are alike in soooo many ways, both were games McQuaid started and left before they were complete, both were a mess at launch, and both have recovered to become solid, enjoyable games. Especially EQ2, that game has come a very long way and is now a very solid game. Vanguard is on it's way, it's gotten progressively better and will only continue to improve.
You're theory about holding it back is rediculous. Why would they want to hold it back? They own it outright. They have nothing to gain by holding it back, and only stand to lose if it doesn't succeed.
As for Hellgate....well, I actually kind of liked Hellgate. Should it ever have been labeled as an MMO? No way, no how. Flagship tried to make the game everything, to everyone, and they actually came pretty close, but in the end they lost focus and the game lost it's identity. I think if they would have just went the route of selling the box, and then started working on an xpac, w/ smaller, quality chunks of DLCs to keep the studio running. It turned out that the game actually was fun, it just lacked cohesiveness, and suffered b/c of it.
I can't comment on Tabula Rasa b/c I never got into it. The concept seemed pretty cool, and I definitely feel for the people that called it's world "home". I have to say though that it sure seems Mr.Garriot lost focus at some point. I don't think he has wanted to, or has, design any games in a good long time. The passion for game design has left him, just look at the last couple of games he put out compared to the first couple. His early games were deep, expansive, and more then anything immersive, you could just tell that a lot of love went into the games. But Tabula Rasa, and even the last few Ultima games, lacked that essence. They almost had it, and you could tell that the potential for greatness was there, it was just never fully realized. It's a shame really....
Have you really played Vanguard honestly??? You say what you say like i was bringing it down. Which i never did... i said it's a good game... and by far one of my fav's.
Yes SoE has fixed up the game, but it took them a LONG time to do so. Plus SoE has held back Vanguard a good deal.... that game is no where it could be.
It takes them 2-4 months to bring out a new update... granted their big.... but all the time they put in their precious EQ... they could be making VG alot better.
Any VG fan.. could honestly tell you.. SoE is holding it back from what it can be.
{ Mod Edit }
Ok....you have already contradicted yourself a few times while talking about this, not to mention you resorted to personal attacks which further shows your lack of ability to explain your position and iterate your thoughts. Allow me to point out the flaws in your logic so you can see how little sense your arguments make.
First, yes I have played Vanguard. Am I a Vanguard player? No. I checked it out at release, and have checked back in on it a couple of times since then, and I have to say that I only see improvement in almost every aspect of the game. Vanguard has always oozed potential, but b/c of McQuaids lack to effectively manage a studio, the potential was never fully realized.
SoE saw that potential and saved the game when M$ dropped it, so already if it wasn't for SoE the game never would have even released. Now, they could have just released it, and left it alone, but they didn't. They put a competant team to work on the game, and it has improved immensely.
You complain about how LONG it took them to fix things....that's b/c there was soooo MUCH to fix. The game was a steaming pile of half-finished, unrealized potential when SoE took over, and they made it into a more then decent game.
It takes 2-4 months to release and update you say. Then, in the same breath, you admit that they are large updates, well lets see....I wonder why they take 2-4 months....maybe b/c they put a lot of work into the updates, and said work takes time? mmmmmmm.....logic
Your supposition that SoE puts time and effort into EQ that could be put into Vanguard is equally as rediculous, actually, probably more so, as the rest of your post. There are seperate teams working on each game, so how is time spent developing EQ/EQ2 taking anything away from Vanguard? Oh yeah, it's not.
I'm sorry mate, but if it wasn't for SoE, there wouldn't even be Vanguard. I will give you that it's kind of odd there hasn't been an xpac announced, especially as this IS SoE we're talking about, the company that at one time was releasing an xpac for EQ every 6 months. But to that, I have to assume their recent change in design philosophy is responsible....They no long will rush xpacs out just for the sake of making a few easy bucks. I believe the reason there hasn't been talk of an xpac for Vanguard yet is b/c they want to make sure what is already in the game is where it should be, before expanding on it. It makes sense, no?
Again, I have to reiterate that it makes no sense for SoE to want Vanguard to fail. They own it outright, IP, engine, everything is theirs. So please, tell me why they would want to hold it back? They only stand to gain from making it better, which by your own admission, they HAVE made it bette, so why would they stop now. It's nonsensical to think they would intentionally hold it back.
If you are trying to say that SoE isn't competant enough to help Vanguard live up to it's potential...well, all I can say to that is....neither were it's original dev team, obviously. IMO, there is no one better suited, in the whole of the MMO industry, to turn Vanguard around. They have experience with cleaning up McQuaids abandoned projects, and making them MUCH better games then they were. They did it w/ EQ2, which is actually has a LOT in common w/ Vanguard, both were projects McQuaid started but never finished. Both were in a sad state at release, but b/c of their devotion and hard work, both are MUCH, MUCH better games then they were when they released.
Vanguard is on it's way up, and is only going to get better.
let me ask you this, how, exactly, is SoE holding it back? How could it be made a better game, what needs to be done to make them game what it could be?
1. Please get off your high horse.
2. Yes SoE has saved the game. I already know this... i have a couple 50's in Vanguard... and enjoy the game dearly.
3. They have improved preformance. And added new things into the game.
4.
So what happens is McQuaid very incompotent jackhole... with his dev team, that hasn't made a mmorpg in their life...make Vanguard which already died onced then brought back before SoE came in... mind you. They get screwed out by Microsoft... they know shit storm that was going to come out of Vanguard. Sigil is losing out on time and money. SoE comes in publishes the game, waits for Sigil to die.... and gain another game for themself.
Then Soe After two years, they put in two raid areas. Performance can still be a pain.. after two years. Character customization was gutted and ripped, put back in... numerous character model changes... that could've been spent on something else. Theres some jobs still waiting their class revamp... for christ sakes. After two years... we have gotten way to many mounts, two raid areas, rifts. Hmmmmm guess those updates werent as big as they made them to be.
When there supposed to be all this coool shit in the game.. IE Ship Combat. It really does take them a long time. 2 fucking years!.. to make VG worth anything. SoE knows they can make this game WAYY better then it is. But if they do, it will overshadow their EQ games... and thats been their trademark game for to long now. And the only games they wanted to be truely noted for. So thats why they drag VG on slowly.
EDIT- For got to add... It's not SoE want's VG to fail... but if they wanted it to.. you wouldn't know why?????????? This is SoE who.. destroyed one of the greatest game ever in SWG. And still tell people it was the right decision... and still refuse to go back to the Pre-CU, Pre-NGE.
Why would they waste tons of money furthing developing a game that has little subscribers. Of course, EQ2 is going to get more work done to it, IT HAS MORE SUBSCRIBERS. If you wanna complain about ship combat, complain to sigil about that. Soe has fixed lots of stuff in Vanguard and if there was more subscribers, you would see even more done to it. It takes money to pay for more developers. Your whole point was that SOE is holding this game back but you haven't proved that they are besides saying they aren't fixing the stuff YOU want, or they aren't fixing it fast enough for YOU.
I too HATE the "potential" argument which is why I hated Tabula Rasa with a passion in beta and launch. I went back a few months ago and I loved it. This game has matured and developed. It is not about potential, this game is 10 X better than most of the crap out there right now. Play NC failed this game. If you haven' t played this game within the last 6 months, you forfeit your right to convey an educated opinion. I am not saying everyone will like this game, but it did become something good when it was crap to begin with.
I, for one, will really miss it.
I played it in the last 6 months and thought that it was the same empty shell since launch. It got the fate it deserved. TR devs and RG failed this game. Play NC is not nearly as at fault as the people who failed to do anything with this game for the last year.
See the problem is you think you're listing 2 different groups. You're not. Try going to Destination Games's website. Thats right it fowards to Play NC because DG became NC Austin. As for Garriot. I don't know if it was his heart was never in the game or his heart was never in NCsoft. Though I can't imagine him putting his name on the game if he didn't believe in it though what TR became was not what he originally wanted and maybe that had more to do with his dropping out.
I'm going to miss this game. It strove to be different. It perhaps wasn't as different as the developers hoped but it did try some not so popular features like logos, cloning (at least the TR version) and an actual changing battefield. Perhaps the original concept for the game would have been a bit more ground breaking. Who knows.
But in the end the game, to me at least, accomplished the most important goal of any game...to be fun.
I'm to the point to where I don't really want to purchase another NCSoft game without a contract stating how long I can expect service.
Listen, it's really not very complicated. How hard was it to see that TR was not going to survive? You read about the game. Got the opinions--both positive and negative--from players of the game over the last year. Did you try the game yourself? There was a free trial for the last 3 months. If you couldn't tell that TR had "fail" written all over it after all that, then there is just no way to help you. The closing down of TR is no surprise at all.
Heck I respect NCSoft even more after this. They have the balls to pull the plug on failed games--sending a clear message to any developers who think releasing beta-ware is the new MMORPG standard. And they gave the TR developers a year to get their act together and they didn't.
WHAT!?!?!?!? Are you kidding me, SOE holding Vanguard back? SOE is responsible for making the game more then halfway-decent, and for pulling something enjoyable out of that steaming waaaaay undercooked pile of rubbish that McQuaid left behind for them to clean up. And they did. Vanguard is only what it is today b/c SOE took it and applied the same formula they used to fix EQ2. Vanguard and EQ2 are alike in soooo many ways, both were games McQuaid started and left before they were complete, both were a mess at launch, and both have recovered to become solid, enjoyable games. Especially EQ2, that game has come a very long way and is now a very solid game. Vanguard is on it's way, it's gotten progressively better and will only continue to improve. You're theory about holding it back is rediculous. Why would they want to hold it back? They own it outright. They have nothing to gain by holding it back, and only stand to lose if it doesn't succeed. As for Hellgate....well, I actually kind of liked Hellgate. Should it ever have been labeled as an MMO? No way, no how. Flagship tried to make the game everything, to everyone, and they actually came pretty close, but in the end they lost focus and the game lost it's identity. I think if they would have just went the route of selling the box, and then started working on an xpac, w/ smaller, quality chunks of DLCs to keep the studio running. It turned out that the game actually was fun, it just lacked cohesiveness, and suffered b/c of it. I can't comment on Tabula Rasa b/c I never got into it. The concept seemed pretty cool, and I definitely feel for the people that called it's world "home". I have to say though that it sure seems Mr.Garriot lost focus at some point. I don't think he has wanted to, or has, design any games in a good long time. The passion for game design has left him, just look at the last couple of games he put out compared to the first couple. His early games were deep, expansive, and more then anything immersive, you could just tell that a lot of love went into the games. But Tabula Rasa, and even the last few Ultima games, lacked that essence. They almost had it, and you could tell that the potential for greatness was there, it was just never fully realized. It's a shame really....
Have you really played Vanguard honestly??? You say what you say like i was bringing it down. Which i never did... i said it's a good game... and by far one of my fav's.
Yes SoE has fixed up the game, but it took them a LONG time to do so. Plus SoE has held back Vanguard a good deal.... that game is no where it could be.
It takes them 2-4 months to bring out a new update... granted their big.... but all the time they put in their precious EQ... they could be making VG alot better.
Any VG fan.. could honestly tell you.. SoE is holding it back from what it can be.
{ Mod Edit }
Learn your facts. SOE is the only thing Keeping VG alive. If they hadn't picked it up and invested so much in it to fix it, the game would have long ago had the plugged pulled. Yet dispite all SOE has done for VG a game no other company would touch with a ten foot pole your here whinning that SOE doesn't drop everything and invest 100% of all their resources in that sorry excuse of a MMO.
Heres some food for thought. Would you invest all or most of your resources in a game that less then 10% of your customer base actually plays. Would you sacrifice and alienate 90% of your customers just to waste all or most of you resources on the other 10% which migth not make them happy anyway?
WHAT!?!?!?!? Are you kidding me, SOE holding Vanguard back? SOE is responsible for making the game more then halfway-decent, and for pulling something enjoyable out of that steaming waaaaay undercooked pile of rubbish that McQuaid left behind for them to clean up. And they did. Vanguard is only what it is today b/c SOE took it and applied the same formula they used to fix EQ2. Vanguard and EQ2 are alike in soooo many ways, both were games McQuaid started and left before they were complete, both were a mess at launch, and both have recovered to become solid, enjoyable games. Especially EQ2, that game has come a very long way and is now a very solid game. Vanguard is on it's way, it's gotten progressively better and will only continue to improve. You're theory about holding it back is rediculous. Why would they want to hold it back? They own it outright. They have nothing to gain by holding it back, and only stand to lose if it doesn't succeed. As for Hellgate....well, I actually kind of liked Hellgate. Should it ever have been labeled as an MMO? No way, no how. Flagship tried to make the game everything, to everyone, and they actually came pretty close, but in the end they lost focus and the game lost it's identity. I think if they would have just went the route of selling the box, and then started working on an xpac, w/ smaller, quality chunks of DLCs to keep the studio running. It turned out that the game actually was fun, it just lacked cohesiveness, and suffered b/c of it. I can't comment on Tabula Rasa b/c I never got into it. The concept seemed pretty cool, and I definitely feel for the people that called it's world "home". I have to say though that it sure seems Mr.Garriot lost focus at some point. I don't think he has wanted to, or has, design any games in a good long time. The passion for game design has left him, just look at the last couple of games he put out compared to the first couple. His early games were deep, expansive, and more then anything immersive, you could just tell that a lot of love went into the games. But Tabula Rasa, and even the last few Ultima games, lacked that essence. They almost had it, and you could tell that the potential for greatness was there, it was just never fully realized. It's a shame really....
Have you really played Vanguard honestly??? You say what you say like i was bringing it down. Which i never did... i said it's a good game... and by far one of my fav's.
Yes SoE has fixed up the game, but it took them a LONG time to do so. Plus SoE has held back Vanguard a good deal.... that game is no where it could be.
It takes them 2-4 months to bring out a new update... granted their big.... but all the time they put in their precious EQ... they could be making VG alot better.
Any VG fan.. could honestly tell you.. SoE is holding it back from what it can be.
{ Mod Edit }
Learn your facts. SOE is the only thing Keeping VG alive. If they hadn't picked it up and invested so much in it to fix it, the game would have long ago had the plugged pulled. Yet dispite all SOE has done for VG a game no other company would touch with a ten foot pole your here whinning that SOE doesn't drop everything and invest 100% of all their resources in that sorry excuse of a MMO.
Heres some food for thought. Would you invest all or most of your resources in a game that less then 10% of your customer base actually plays. Would you sacrifice and alienate 90% of your customers just to waste all or most of you resources on the other 10% which migth not make them happy anyway?
I never said they should drop everything they do and focus only on VG.
Fact is if they would've put a little more effort in time. Vanguard would really shine, and stand out. { Mod Edit }
The DnL servers are down for reasons unknown and the company that made the game (NPCube) is facing multiple lawsuits. See the DnL forums on this website for deatils. Short story: Yeah, its dead.
I'm going to miss this game. It strove to be different. It perhaps wasn't as different as the developers hoped but it did try some not so popular features like logos, cloning (at least the TR version) and an actual changing battefield. Perhaps the original concept for the game would have been a bit more ground breaking. Who knows. But in the end the game, to me at least, accomplished the most important goal of any game...to be fun.
What changing battlefield? Sure the Bane or the AFS could hold a CP, but it meant nothing to game play.
kids.... kids..... FUCK POTENTIAL! what the hell, every jizz wad has the "potential" to be the next george washington, sadly most of them end up completely useless wastes of space (look at mmorpg.com for example)! potential means nothing! this game promised diamonds and delivered dink. it failed and screw RG for even attempting it (not that he cares i assure you) for its lies deception and trickery (along with shit gameplay and plot) it gets shitcanned, good riddance to bad rubbish, deal with it. dont pretend you care now because this game was crap from closed beta, it never got better despite the promises, even mechs couldnt save it (they were that shittily done). hellgate dying sucked, this however is just what anyone who knows the industry knew would happen. hopefully vanguard is next.
Whoa, what crawled up your ass and died!?
Despite Tabula Rasa being lackluster in the content. It actually was fun.... but content and fanboi's held the game back... this game is riding on alot of potential... but the dev's were just a bunch of retards. Give this game to a REAL dev team... this game would be 10X better.
Hellgate... purely sucked, never was a mmorpg, shouldn't even been treated as one. And Bill Roper is a ass clown, ... that knew his game was going to fail before starting beta.
Vanguard??.... That game is actually good.... dumbass SOE is holding it back, ... cause they knows it's better then their precious EQ.
WHAT!?!?!?!?
Are you kidding me, SOE holding Vanguard back? SOE is responsible for making the game more then halfway-decent, and for pulling something enjoyable out of that steaming waaaaay undercooked pile of rubbish that McQuaid left behind for them to clean up. And they did. Vanguard is only what it is today b/c SOE took it and applied the same formula they used to fix EQ2. Vanguard and EQ2 are alike in soooo many ways, both were games McQuaid started and left before they were complete, both were a mess at launch, and both have recovered to become solid, enjoyable games. Especially EQ2, that game has come a very long way and is now a very solid game. Vanguard is on it's way, it's gotten progressively better and will only continue to improve.
You're theory about holding it back is rediculous. Why would they want to hold it back? They own it outright. They have nothing to gain by holding it back, and only stand to lose if it doesn't succeed.
As for Hellgate....well, I actually kind of liked Hellgate. Should it ever have been labeled as an MMO? No way, no how. Flagship tried to make the game everything, to everyone, and they actually came pretty close, but in the end they lost focus and the game lost it's identity. I think if they would have just went the route of selling the box, and then started working on an xpac, w/ smaller, quality chunks of DLCs to keep the studio running. It turned out that the game actually was fun, it just lacked cohesiveness, and suffered b/c of it.
I can't comment on Tabula Rasa b/c I never got into it. The concept seemed pretty cool, and I definitely feel for the people that called it's world "home". I have to say though that it sure seems Mr.Garriot lost focus at some point. I don't think he has wanted to, or has, design any games in a good long time. The passion for game design has left him, just look at the last couple of games he put out compared to the first couple. His early games were deep, expansive, and more then anything immersive, you could just tell that a lot of love went into the games. But Tabula Rasa, and even the last few Ultima games, lacked that essence. They almost had it, and you could tell that the potential for greatness was there, it was just never fully realized. It's a shame really....
Have you really played Vanguard honestly??? You say what you say like i was bringing it down. Which i never did... i said it's a good game... and by far one of my fav's.
Yes SoE has fixed up the game, but it took them a LONG time to do so. Plus SoE has held back Vanguard a good deal.... that game is no where it could be.
It takes them 2-4 months to bring out a new update... granted their big.... but all the time they put in their precious EQ... they could be making VG alot better.
Any VG fan.. could honestly tell you.. SoE is holding it back from what it can be.
{ Mod Edit }
Ok....you have already contradicted yourself a few times while talking about this, not to mention you resorted to personal attacks which further shows your lack of ability to explain your position and iterate your thoughts. Allow me to point out the flaws in your logic so you can see how little sense your arguments make.
First, yes I have played Vanguard. Am I a Vanguard player? No. I checked it out at release, and have checked back in on it a couple of times since then, and I have to say that I only see improvement in almost every aspect of the game. Vanguard has always oozed potential, but b/c of McQuaids lack to effectively manage a studio, the potential was never fully realized.
SoE saw that potential and saved the game when M$ dropped it, so already if it wasn't for SoE the game never would have even released. Now, they could have just released it, and left it alone, but they didn't. They put a competant team to work on the game, and it has improved immensely.
You complain about how LONG it took them to fix things....that's b/c there was soooo MUCH to fix. The game was a steaming pile of half-finished, unrealized potential when SoE took over, and they made it into a more then decent game.
It takes 2-4 months to release and update you say. Then, in the same breath, you admit that they are large updates, well lets see....I wonder why they take 2-4 months....maybe b/c they put a lot of work into the updates, and said work takes time? mmmmmmm.....logic
Your supposition that SoE puts time and effort into EQ that could be put into Vanguard is equally as rediculous, actually, probably more so, as the rest of your post. There are seperate teams working on each game, so how is time spent developing EQ/EQ2 taking anything away from Vanguard? Oh yeah, it's not.
I'm sorry mate, but if it wasn't for SoE, there wouldn't even be Vanguard. I will give you that it's kind of odd there hasn't been an xpac announced, especially as this IS SoE we're talking about, the company that at one time was releasing an xpac for EQ every 6 months. But to that, I have to assume their recent change in design philosophy is responsible....They no long will rush xpacs out just for the sake of making a few easy bucks. I believe the reason there hasn't been talk of an xpac for Vanguard yet is b/c they want to make sure what is already in the game is where it should be, before expanding on it. It makes sense, no?
Again, I have to reiterate that it makes no sense for SoE to want Vanguard to fail. They own it outright, IP, engine, everything is theirs. So please, tell me why they would want to hold it back? They only stand to gain from making it better, which by your own admission, they HAVE made it bette, so why would they stop now. It's nonsensical to think they would intentionally hold it back.
If you are trying to say that SoE isn't competant enough to help Vanguard live up to it's potential...well, all I can say to that is....neither were it's original dev team, obviously. IMO, there is no one better suited, in the whole of the MMO industry, to turn Vanguard around. They have experience with cleaning up McQuaids abandoned projects, and making them MUCH better games then they were. They did it w/ EQ2, which is actually has a LOT in common w/ Vanguard, both were projects McQuaid started but never finished. Both were in a sad state at release, but b/c of their devotion and hard work, both are MUCH, MUCH better games then they were when they released.
Vanguard is on it's way up, and is only going to get better.
let me ask you this, how, exactly, is SoE holding it back? How could it be made a better game, what needs to be done to make them game what it could be?
1. Please get off your high horse.
2. Yes SoE has saved the game. I already know this... i have a couple 50's in Vanguard... and enjoy the game dearly.
3. They have improved preformance. And added new things into the game.
4.
So what happens is McQuaid very incompotent jackhole... with his dev team, that hasn't made a mmorpg in their life...make Vanguard which already died onced then brought back before SoE came in... mind you. They get screwed out by Microsoft... they know shit storm that was going to come out of Vanguard. Sigil is losing out on time and money. SoE comes in publishes the game, waits for Sigil to die.... and gain another game for themself.
Then Soe After two years, they put in two raid areas. Performance can still be a pain.. after two years. Character customization was gutted and ripped, put back in... numerous character model changes... that could've been spent on something else. Theres some jobs still waiting their class revamp... for christ sakes. After two years... we have gotten way to many mounts, two raid areas, rifts. Hmmmmm guess those updates werent as big as they made them to be.
When there supposed to be all this coool shit in the game.. IE Ship Combat. It really does take them a long time. 2 fucking years!.. to make VG worth anything. SoE knows they can make this game WAYY better then it is. But if they do, it will overshadow their EQ games... and thats been their trademark game for to long now. And the only games they wanted to be truely noted for. So thats why they drag VG on slowly.
EDIT- For got to add... It's not SoE want's VG to fail... but if they wanted it to.. you wouldn't know why?????????? This is SoE who.. destroyed one of the greatest game ever in SWG. And still tell people it was the right decision... and still refuse to go back to the Pre-CU, Pre-NGE.
Why would they waste tons of money furthing developing a game that has little subscribers. Of course, EQ2 is going to get more work done to it, IT HAS MORE SUBSCRIBERS. If you wanna complain about ship combat, complain to sigil about that. Soe has fixed lots of stuff in Vanguard and if there was more subscribers, you would see even more done to it. It takes money to pay for more developers. Your whole point was that SOE is holding this game back but you haven't proved that they are besides saying they aren't fixing the stuff YOU want, or they aren't fixing it fast enough for YOU.
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I'm pretty sure Vanguard is much bigger then EQ2. EQ2 in todays measures would be considered a flop. Vanguard has millions of oversea's players.
I'm pretty sure Vanguard is much bigger then EQ2. EQ2 in todays measures would be considered a flop. Vanguard has millions of oversea's players.
I am sorry but you are wrong my friend. Vanguard DOES NOT have a million subscribers, you musta pulled those numbers out of your rear LOL. Vanguard has less then 50k subscribers. Eq2 has over 200k, EQ2 is much a bigger game in terms of subs, it has 4 times the amount of players that Vanguard does. You cannot call EQ2 a flop without calling Vanguard a MUCH bigger flop.
Vanguard was dumped by Microsoft because it was hemoraging money. SOE bought it at a bargain price and has put money and time into fixing it. That is much more then some other companies would do. To complain that SOE is holding Vanguard back is just delusional and without merit.
kids.... kids..... FUCK POTENTIAL! what the hell, every jizz wad has the "potential" to be the next george washington, sadly most of them end up completely useless wastes of space (look at mmorpg.com for example)! potential means nothing! this game promised diamonds and delivered dink. it failed and screw RG for even attempting it (not that he cares i assure you) for its lies deception and trickery (along with shit gameplay and plot) it gets shitcanned, good riddance to bad rubbish, deal with it. dont pretend you care now because this game was crap from closed beta, it never got better despite the promises, even mechs couldnt save it (they were that shittily done). hellgate dying sucked, this however is just what anyone who knows the industry knew would happen. hopefully vanguard is next.
Whoa, what crawled up your ass and died!?
Despite Tabula Rasa being lackluster in the content. It actually was fun.... but content and fanboi's held the game back... this game is riding on alot of potential... but the dev's were just a bunch of retards. Give this game to a REAL dev team... this game would be 10X better.
Hellgate... purely sucked, never was a mmorpg, shouldn't even been treated as one. And Bill Roper is a ass clown, ... that knew his game was going to fail before starting beta.
Vanguard??.... That game is actually good.... dumbass SOE is holding it back, ... cause they knows it's better then their precious EQ.
WHAT!?!?!?!?
Are you kidding me, SOE holding Vanguard back? SOE is responsible for making the game more then halfway-decent, and for pulling something enjoyable out of that steaming waaaaay undercooked pile of rubbish that McQuaid left behind for them to clean up. And they did. Vanguard is only what it is today b/c SOE took it and applied the same formula they used to fix EQ2. Vanguard and EQ2 are alike in soooo many ways, both were games McQuaid started and left before they were complete, both were a mess at launch, and both have recovered to become solid, enjoyable games. Especially EQ2, that game has come a very long way and is now a very solid game. Vanguard is on it's way, it's gotten progressively better and will only continue to improve.
You're theory about holding it back is rediculous. Why would they want to hold it back? They own it outright. They have nothing to gain by holding it back, and only stand to lose if it doesn't succeed.
As for Hellgate....well, I actually kind of liked Hellgate. Should it ever have been labeled as an MMO? No way, no how. Flagship tried to make the game everything, to everyone, and they actually came pretty close, but in the end they lost focus and the game lost it's identity. I think if they would have just went the route of selling the box, and then started working on an xpac, w/ smaller, quality chunks of DLCs to keep the studio running. It turned out that the game actually was fun, it just lacked cohesiveness, and suffered b/c of it.
I can't comment on Tabula Rasa b/c I never got into it. The concept seemed pretty cool, and I definitely feel for the people that called it's world "home". I have to say though that it sure seems Mr.Garriot lost focus at some point. I don't think he has wanted to, or has, design any games in a good long time. The passion for game design has left him, just look at the last couple of games he put out compared to the first couple. His early games were deep, expansive, and more then anything immersive, you could just tell that a lot of love went into the games. But Tabula Rasa, and even the last few Ultima games, lacked that essence. They almost had it, and you could tell that the potential for greatness was there, it was just never fully realized. It's a shame really....
Have you really played Vanguard honestly??? You say what you say like i was bringing it down. Which i never did... i said it's a good game... and by far one of my fav's.
Yes SoE has fixed up the game, but it took them a LONG time to do so. Plus SoE has held back Vanguard a good deal.... that game is no where it could be.
It takes them 2-4 months to bring out a new update... granted their big.... but all the time they put in their precious EQ... they could be making VG alot better.
Any VG fan.. could honestly tell you.. SoE is holding it back from what it can be.
{ Mod Edit }
Ok....you have already contradicted yourself a few times while talking about this, not to mention you resorted to personal attacks which further shows your lack of ability to explain your position and iterate your thoughts. Allow me to point out the flaws in your logic so you can see how little sense your arguments make.
First, yes I have played Vanguard. Am I a Vanguard player? No. I checked it out at release, and have checked back in on it a couple of times since then, and I have to say that I only see improvement in almost every aspect of the game. Vanguard has always oozed potential, but b/c of McQuaids lack to effectively manage a studio, the potential was never fully realized.
SoE saw that potential and saved the game when M$ dropped it, so already if it wasn't for SoE the game never would have even released. Now, they could have just released it, and left it alone, but they didn't. They put a competant team to work on the game, and it has improved immensely.
You complain about how LONG it took them to fix things....that's b/c there was soooo MUCH to fix. The game was a steaming pile of half-finished, unrealized potential when SoE took over, and they made it into a more then decent game.
It takes 2-4 months to release and update you say. Then, in the same breath, you admit that they are large updates, well lets see....I wonder why they take 2-4 months....maybe b/c they put a lot of work into the updates, and said work takes time? mmmmmmm.....logic
Your supposition that SoE puts time and effort into EQ that could be put into Vanguard is equally as rediculous, actually, probably more so, as the rest of your post. There are seperate teams working on each game, so how is time spent developing EQ/EQ2 taking anything away from Vanguard? Oh yeah, it's not.
I'm sorry mate, but if it wasn't for SoE, there wouldn't even be Vanguard. I will give you that it's kind of odd there hasn't been an xpac announced, especially as this IS SoE we're talking about, the company that at one time was releasing an xpac for EQ every 6 months. But to that, I have to assume their recent change in design philosophy is responsible....They no long will rush xpacs out just for the sake of making a few easy bucks. I believe the reason there hasn't been talk of an xpac for Vanguard yet is b/c they want to make sure what is already in the game is where it should be, before expanding on it. It makes sense, no?
Again, I have to reiterate that it makes no sense for SoE to want Vanguard to fail. They own it outright, IP, engine, everything is theirs. So please, tell me why they would want to hold it back? They only stand to gain from making it better, which by your own admission, they HAVE made it bette, so why would they stop now. It's nonsensical to think they would intentionally hold it back.
If you are trying to say that SoE isn't competant enough to help Vanguard live up to it's potential...well, all I can say to that is....neither were it's original dev team, obviously. IMO, there is no one better suited, in the whole of the MMO industry, to turn Vanguard around. They have experience with cleaning up McQuaids abandoned projects, and making them MUCH better games then they were. They did it w/ EQ2, which is actually has a LOT in common w/ Vanguard, both were projects McQuaid started but never finished. Both were in a sad state at release, but b/c of their devotion and hard work, both are MUCH, MUCH better games then they were when they released.
Vanguard is on it's way up, and is only going to get better.
let me ask you this, how, exactly, is SoE holding it back? How could it be made a better game, what needs to be done to make them game what it could be?
1. Please get off your high horse.
2. Yes SoE has saved the game. I already know this... i have a couple 50's in Vanguard... and enjoy the game dearly.
3. They have improved preformance. And added new things into the game.
4.
So what happens is McQuaid very incompotent jackhole... with his dev team, that hasn't made a mmorpg in their life...make Vanguard which already died onced then brought back before SoE came in... mind you. They get screwed out by Microsoft... they know shit storm that was going to come out of Vanguard. Sigil is losing out on time and money. SoE comes in publishes the game, waits for Sigil to die.... and gain another game for themself.
Then Soe After two years, they put in two raid areas. Performance can still be a pain.. after two years. Character customization was gutted and ripped, put back in... numerous character model changes... that could've been spent on something else. Theres some jobs still waiting their class revamp... for christ sakes. After two years... we have gotten way to many mounts, two raid areas, rifts. Hmmmmm guess those updates werent as big as they made them to be.
When there supposed to be all this coool shit in the game.. IE Ship Combat. It really does take them a long time. 2 fucking years!.. to make VG worth anything. SoE knows they can make this game WAYY better then it is. But if they do, it will overshadow their EQ games... and thats been their trademark game for to long now. And the only games they wanted to be truely noted for. So thats why they drag VG on slowly.
EDIT- For got to add... It's not SoE want's VG to fail... but if they wanted it to.. you wouldn't know why?????????? This is SoE who.. destroyed one of the greatest game ever in SWG. And still tell people it was the right decision... and still refuse to go back to the Pre-CU, Pre-NGE.
Why would they waste tons of money furthing developing a game that has little subscribers. Of course, EQ2 is going to get more work done to it, IT HAS MORE SUBSCRIBERS. If you wanna complain about ship combat, complain to sigil about that. Soe has fixed lots of stuff in Vanguard and if there was more subscribers, you would see even more done to it. It takes money to pay for more developers. Your whole point was that SOE is holding this game back but you haven't proved that they are besides saying they aren't fixing the stuff YOU want, or they aren't fixing it fast enough for YOU.
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Honestly just scrambled through some of the text
But TR maybe was not that of a good game but definetely it wasnt so bad that it needed to be axed within a year .
I had tried out TR and honestly compared to AOC , TR fairs much better .
Yes I do feel if the game was in the hands of competent devs theyy could have salvaged something as in the case with AOC what we are seeing now.
NCsoft might be feeling the economic slowdown pressure to downsize and be more competetive ,bleeding white elephants need to be killed asap.
They have 2 flagship portfolios lined up for next year AION ( heard good reviews about it ) and Guild wars 2 ( I played GW so I know GW2 will strike gold atleast at launch).
I hope AION turns out to be a cool game. When I first saw the trailer where you could fly with wings it peaked my interest. Hopefully it doesn't turn into another Tabula Rasa.
Originally posted by smut I'm pretty sure Vanguard is much bigger then EQ2. EQ2 in todays measures would be considered a flop. Vanguard has millions of oversea's players.
I am sorry but you are wrong my friend. Vanguard DOES NOT have a million subscribers, you musta pulled those numbers out of your rear LOL. Vanguard has less then 50k subscribers. Eq2 has over 200k, EQ2 is much a bigger game in terms of subs, it has 4 times the amount of players that Vanguard does. You cannot call EQ2 a flop without calling Vanguard a MUCH bigger flop. Vanguard was dumped by Microsoft because it was hemoraging money. SOE bought it at a bargain price and has put money and time into fixing it. That is much more then some other companies would do. To complain that SOE is holding Vanguard back is just delusional and without merit. All of SOE's games are or turns into a disaster, well except EQ2 but EQ2's population isn't 200K anymore, it's slowly dropping like every other MMO game except WoW these days. If I were in charge of SOE I'd just focus 100% on EQ2 and forget everything else.
New ideas, different concepts, anything out of the EQ/WoW mold will just die... It's sad, but the mmo community is just not ready or open minded. -Those mmo's need time need time to acheive maturity 18-30 months. -They need to cope with the low pop, service need to be built around low pop. -They need to build instances to receive a low population. -Those projects need to be maintaned by small developpers team in order to survive and develop community until anything else than elf,dwarf, is accepted as mmorpg setup. Those large corps are very short sighted, the mmo community exploded after WoW phenomenom in america, and it's gonnna take a while before those new players are ready to accept anything else than auto-attack and timer based button/skills...
EvE Online demonstrates that a different game can be successful if the quality is there . But they did start out with a low population, so your comment about coping with that is correct. Which obviously leads to the necessity of maintaining games with a small team, if you don't get lots of customers right away.
Considering maturity, most of it has to be there at launch. Missing a few details is acceptable, but launching with lots of bugs and only half the features the competition already has is self defeating. The publishers have no one to blame but themselves for that. This makes it hard for new publishers without lots of money to get in the market, but that is no excuse for launching crap.
This may have been different when MMORPGs were new, MMO veterans report that both Anarchy Online and EvE had a rather bumpy start. But today players will simply move to another game.
This may have been different when MMORPGs were new, MMO veterans report that both Anarchy Online and EvE had a rather bumpy start. But today players will simply move to another game.
Also, you have to think that part of the reason that Funcom and CCP decided to stay the course and fix their games rather than shutting down was that neither of them had a "plan B" to fall back on, each had just their one respective game to work on thus "putting all their eggs into one basket" so so speak. They had the choice to fight to fix their game or die. NCsoft didn't have such a choice. They have a lot of other games they can easily ride on as well as more games coming in the near future so from their point of view it made more sense to write Tabula Rasa off rather than sink more money into a game they didn't really need to survive.
I'm pretty sure Vanguard is much bigger then EQ2. EQ2 in todays measures would be considered a flop. Vanguard has millions of oversea's players.
I am sorry but you are wrong my friend. Vanguard DOES NOT have a million subscribers, you musta pulled those numbers out of your rear LOL. Vanguard has less then 50k subscribers. Eq2 has over 200k, EQ2 is much a bigger game in terms of subs, it has 4 times the amount of players that Vanguard does. You cannot call EQ2 a flop without calling Vanguard a MUCH bigger flop.
Vanguard was dumped by Microsoft because it was hemoraging money. SOE bought it at a bargain price and has put money and time into fixing it. That is much more then some other companies would do. To complain that SOE is holding Vanguard back is just delusional and without merit.
All of SOE's games are or turns into a disaster, well except EQ2 but EQ2's population isn't 200K anymore, it's slowly dropping like every other MMO game except WoW these days. If I were in charge of SOE I'd just focus 100% on EQ2 and forget everything else.
As of April 2008 they had over 200k subs. They have stayed at 200-250k for a few years now. They have a loyal fanbase. Neither of us can say exactly the amount of subscribers they have currently as there hasn't been any very recent data released as far as I know. My point still stands, eq2 is way bigger then Vanguard in terms of subscriptions.
Comments
I too HATE the "potential" argument which is why I hated Tabula Rasa with a passion in beta and launch.
I went back a few months ago and I loved it. This game has matured and developed. It is not about potential, this game is 10 X better than most of the crap out there right now.
Play NC failed this game. If you haven' t played this game within the last 6 months, you forfeit your right to convey an educated opinion. I am not saying everyone will like this game, but it did become something good when it was crap to begin with.
I, for one, will really miss it.
Have a winner and don't go on a game over! Does your avatar make you powerful in real life? Check out the Mystical Enders gaming community. www.mysticalenders.com
Have you really played Vanguard honestly??? You say what you say like i was bringing it down. Which i never did... i said it's a good game... and by far one of my fav's.Yes SoE has fixed up the game, but it took them a LONG time to do so. Plus SoE has held back Vanguard a good deal.... that game is no where it could be.
It takes them 2-4 months to bring out a new update... granted their big.... but all the time they put in their precious EQ... they could be making VG alot better.
Any VG fan.. could honestly tell you.. SoE is holding it back from what it can be.
{ Mod Edit }
Ok....you have already contradicted yourself a few times while talking about this, not to mention you resorted to personal attacks which further shows your lack of ability to explain your position and iterate your thoughts. Allow me to point out the flaws in your logic so you can see how little sense your arguments make.
First, yes I have played Vanguard. Am I a Vanguard player? No. I checked it out at release, and have checked back in on it a couple of times since then, and I have to say that I only see improvement in almost every aspect of the game. Vanguard has always oozed potential, but b/c of McQuaids lack to effectively manage a studio, the potential was never fully realized.
SoE saw that potential and saved the game when M$ dropped it, so already if it wasn't for SoE the game never would have even released. Now, they could have just released it, and left it alone, but they didn't. They put a competant team to work on the game, and it has improved immensely.
You complain about how LONG it took them to fix things....that's b/c there was soooo MUCH to fix. The game was a steaming pile of half-finished, unrealized potential when SoE took over, and they made it into a more then decent game.
It takes 2-4 months to release and update you say. Then, in the same breath, you admit that they are large updates, well lets see....I wonder why they take 2-4 months....maybe b/c they put a lot of work into the updates, and said work takes time? mmmmmmm.....logic
Your supposition that SoE puts time and effort into EQ that could be put into Vanguard is equally as rediculous, actually, probably more so, as the rest of your post. There are seperate teams working on each game, so how is time spent developing EQ/EQ2 taking anything away from Vanguard? Oh yeah, it's not.
I'm sorry mate, but if it wasn't for SoE, there wouldn't even be Vanguard. I will give you that it's kind of odd there hasn't been an xpac announced, especially as this IS SoE we're talking about, the company that at one time was releasing an xpac for EQ every 6 months. But to that, I have to assume their recent change in design philosophy is responsible....They no long will rush xpacs out just for the sake of making a few easy bucks. I believe the reason there hasn't been talk of an xpac for Vanguard yet is b/c they want to make sure what is already in the game is where it should be, before expanding on it. It makes sense, no?
Again, I have to reiterate that it makes no sense for SoE to want Vanguard to fail. They own it outright, IP, engine, everything is theirs. So please, tell me why they would want to hold it back? They only stand to gain from making it better, which by your own admission, they HAVE made it bette, so why would they stop now. It's nonsensical to think they would intentionally hold it back.
If you are trying to say that SoE isn't competant enough to help Vanguard live up to it's potential...well, all I can say to that is....neither were it's original dev team, obviously. IMO, there is no one better suited, in the whole of the MMO industry, to turn Vanguard around. They have experience with cleaning up McQuaids abandoned projects, and making them MUCH better games then they were. They did it w/ EQ2, which is actually has a LOT in common w/ Vanguard, both were projects McQuaid started but never finished. Both were in a sad state at release, but b/c of their devotion and hard work, both are MUCH, MUCH better games then they were when they released.
Vanguard is on it's way up, and is only going to get better.
let me ask you this, how, exactly, is SoE holding it back? How could it be made a better game, what needs to be done to make them game what it could be?
1. Please get off your high horse.
2. Yes SoE has saved the game. I already know this... i have a couple 50's in Vanguard... and enjoy the game dearly.
3. They have improved preformance. And added new things into the game.
4.
So what happens is McQuaid very incompotent jackhole... with his dev team, that hasn't made a mmorpg in their life...make Vanguard which already died onced then brought back before SoE came in... mind you. They get screwed out by Microsoft... they know shit storm that was going to come out of Vanguard. Sigil is losing out on time and money. SoE comes in publishes the game, waits for Sigil to die.... and gain another game for themself.
Then Soe After two years, they put in two raid areas. Performance can still be a pain.. after two years. Character customization was gutted and ripped, put back in... numerous character model changes... that could've been spent on something else. Theres some jobs still waiting their class revamp... for christ sakes. After two years... we have gotten way to many mounts, two raid areas, rifts. Hmmmmm guess those updates werent as big as they made them to be.
When there supposed to be all this coool shit in the game.. IE Ship Combat. It really does take them a long time. 2 fucking years!.. to make VG worth anything. SoE knows they can make this game WAYY better then it is. But if they do, it will overshadow their EQ games... and thats been their trademark game for to long now. And the only games they wanted to be truely noted for. So thats why they drag VG on slowly.
EDIT- For got to add... It's not SoE want's VG to fail... but if they wanted it to.. you wouldn't know why?????????? This is SoE who.. destroyed one of the greatest game ever in SWG. And still tell people it was the right decision... and still refuse to go back to the Pre-CU, Pre-NGE.
Potential is the single greatest word destroying our genre.
A lot of devolopers dont even try to finish their content for launch because they ride on the word, they expect us to sit here and swallow a bullshit game because it has potential, and keep playing it for 9 or 10 months while we wait for them to bring the game up to potential. It is unacceptable.
Warhammer is riding potential, so is age of conan, the sooner games start launching in a great state the better, we need more games being good at launch and less game relying on future potential as a reason for us to pay for it for months on end.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Whats funny is this is what got me to stop paying for COH.. Guess ill give DC online a try When it comes out. Least there it get several crappy games i Like to play for a few hours on the station pass every month.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Hopefully Aion will make it for me.
Prepare to die; sinners!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I played it in the last 6 months and thought that it was the same empty shell since launch. It got the fate it deserved. TR devs and RG failed this game. Play NC is not nearly as at fault as the people who failed to do anything with this game for the last year.
Ok....you have already contradicted yourself a few times while talking about this, not to mention you resorted to personal attacks which further shows your lack of ability to explain your position and iterate your thoughts. Allow me to point out the flaws in your logic so you can see how little sense your arguments make.
First, yes I have played Vanguard. Am I a Vanguard player? No. I checked it out at release, and have checked back in on it a couple of times since then, and I have to say that I only see improvement in almost every aspect of the game. Vanguard has always oozed potential, but b/c of McQuaids lack to effectively manage a studio, the potential was never fully realized.
SoE saw that potential and saved the game when M$ dropped it, so already if it wasn't for SoE the game never would have even released. Now, they could have just released it, and left it alone, but they didn't. They put a competant team to work on the game, and it has improved immensely.
You complain about how LONG it took them to fix things....that's b/c there was soooo MUCH to fix. The game was a steaming pile of half-finished, unrealized potential when SoE took over, and they made it into a more then decent game.
It takes 2-4 months to release and update you say. Then, in the same breath, you admit that they are large updates, well lets see....I wonder why they take 2-4 months....maybe b/c they put a lot of work into the updates, and said work takes time? mmmmmmm.....logic
Your supposition that SoE puts time and effort into EQ that could be put into Vanguard is equally as rediculous, actually, probably more so, as the rest of your post. There are seperate teams working on each game, so how is time spent developing EQ/EQ2 taking anything away from Vanguard? Oh yeah, it's not.
I'm sorry mate, but if it wasn't for SoE, there wouldn't even be Vanguard. I will give you that it's kind of odd there hasn't been an xpac announced, especially as this IS SoE we're talking about, the company that at one time was releasing an xpac for EQ every 6 months. But to that, I have to assume their recent change in design philosophy is responsible....They no long will rush xpacs out just for the sake of making a few easy bucks. I believe the reason there hasn't been talk of an xpac for Vanguard yet is b/c they want to make sure what is already in the game is where it should be, before expanding on it. It makes sense, no?
Again, I have to reiterate that it makes no sense for SoE to want Vanguard to fail. They own it outright, IP, engine, everything is theirs. So please, tell me why they would want to hold it back? They only stand to gain from making it better, which by your own admission, they HAVE made it bette, so why would they stop now. It's nonsensical to think they would intentionally hold it back.
If you are trying to say that SoE isn't competant enough to help Vanguard live up to it's potential...well, all I can say to that is....neither were it's original dev team, obviously. IMO, there is no one better suited, in the whole of the MMO industry, to turn Vanguard around. They have experience with cleaning up McQuaids abandoned projects, and making them MUCH better games then they were. They did it w/ EQ2, which is actually has a LOT in common w/ Vanguard, both were projects McQuaid started but never finished. Both were in a sad state at release, but b/c of their devotion and hard work, both are MUCH, MUCH better games then they were when they released.
Vanguard is on it's way up, and is only going to get better.
let me ask you this, how, exactly, is SoE holding it back? How could it be made a better game, what needs to be done to make them game what it could be?
1. Please get off your high horse.
2. Yes SoE has saved the game. I already know this... i have a couple 50's in Vanguard... and enjoy the game dearly.
3. They have improved preformance. And added new things into the game.
4.
So what happens is McQuaid very incompotent jackhole... with his dev team, that hasn't made a mmorpg in their life...make Vanguard which already died onced then brought back before SoE came in... mind you. They get screwed out by Microsoft... they know shit storm that was going to come out of Vanguard. Sigil is losing out on time and money. SoE comes in publishes the game, waits for Sigil to die.... and gain another game for themself.
Then Soe After two years, they put in two raid areas. Performance can still be a pain.. after two years. Character customization was gutted and ripped, put back in... numerous character model changes... that could've been spent on something else. Theres some jobs still waiting their class revamp... for christ sakes. After two years... we have gotten way to many mounts, two raid areas, rifts. Hmmmmm guess those updates werent as big as they made them to be.
When there supposed to be all this coool shit in the game.. IE Ship Combat. It really does take them a long time. 2 fucking years!.. to make VG worth anything. SoE knows they can make this game WAYY better then it is. But if they do, it will overshadow their EQ games... and thats been their trademark game for to long now. And the only games they wanted to be truely noted for. So thats why they drag VG on slowly.
EDIT- For got to add... It's not SoE want's VG to fail... but if they wanted it to.. you wouldn't know why?????????? This is SoE who.. destroyed one of the greatest game ever in SWG. And still tell people it was the right decision... and still refuse to go back to the Pre-CU, Pre-NGE.
Why would they waste tons of money furthing developing a game that has little subscribers. Of course, EQ2 is going to get more work done to it, IT HAS MORE SUBSCRIBERS. If you wanna complain about ship combat, complain to sigil about that. Soe has fixed lots of stuff in Vanguard and if there was more subscribers, you would see even more done to it. It takes money to pay for more developers. Your whole point was that SOE is holding this game back but you haven't proved that they are besides saying they aren't fixing the stuff YOU want, or they aren't fixing it fast enough for YOU.
I played it in the last 6 months and thought that it was the same empty shell since launch. It got the fate it deserved. TR devs and RG failed this game. Play NC is not nearly as at fault as the people who failed to do anything with this game for the last year.
See the problem is you think you're listing 2 different groups. You're not. Try going to Destination Games's website. Thats right it fowards to Play NC because DG became NC Austin. As for Garriot. I don't know if it was his heart was never in the game or his heart was never in NCsoft. Though I can't imagine him putting his name on the game if he didn't believe in it though what TR became was not what he originally wanted and maybe that had more to do with his dropping out.
I'm going to miss this game. It strove to be different. It perhaps wasn't as different as the developers hoped but it did try some not so popular features like logos, cloning (at least the TR version) and an actual changing battefield. Perhaps the original concept for the game would have been a bit more ground breaking. Who knows.
But in the end the game, to me at least, accomplished the most important goal of any game...to be fun.
Listen, it's really not very complicated. How hard was it to see that TR was not going to survive? You read about the game. Got the opinions--both positive and negative--from players of the game over the last year. Did you try the game yourself? There was a free trial for the last 3 months. If you couldn't tell that TR had "fail" written all over it after all that, then there is just no way to help you. The closing down of TR is no surprise at all.
Heck I respect NCSoft even more after this. They have the balls to pull the plug on failed games--sending a clear message to any developers who think releasing beta-ware is the new MMORPG standard. And they gave the TR developers a year to get their act together and they didn't.
Learn your facts. SOE is the only thing Keeping VG alive. If they hadn't picked it up and invested so much in it to fix it, the game would have long ago had the plugged pulled. Yet dispite all SOE has done for VG a game no other company would touch with a ten foot pole your here whinning that SOE doesn't drop everything and invest 100% of all their resources in that sorry excuse of a MMO.
Heres some food for thought. Would you invest all or most of your resources in a game that less then 10% of your customer base actually plays. Would you sacrifice and alienate 90% of your customers just to waste all or most of you resources on the other 10% which migth not make them happy anyway?
This is why I don't play NCSoft games. Silly Koren MMO companies.
I never said they should drop everything they do and focus only on VG.
Fact is if they would've put a little more effort in time. Vanguard would really shine, and stand out. { Mod Edit }
Dark and Light or is that game alive now?
And The Saga of Ryzom has been on the deathbed for quite some time now.
The DnL servers are down for reasons unknown and the company that made the game (NPCube) is facing multiple lawsuits. See the DnL forums on this website for deatils. Short story: Yeah, its dead.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
What changing battlefield? Sure the Bane or the AFS could hold a CP, but it meant nothing to game play.
Whoa, what crawled up your ass and died!?
Despite Tabula Rasa being lackluster in the content. It actually was fun.... but content and fanboi's held the game back... this game is riding on alot of potential... but the dev's were just a bunch of retards. Give this game to a REAL dev team... this game would be 10X better.
Hellgate... purely sucked, never was a mmorpg, shouldn't even been treated as one. And Bill Roper is a ass clown, ... that knew his game was going to fail before starting beta.
Vanguard??.... That game is actually good.... dumbass SOE is holding it back, ... cause they knows it's better then their precious EQ.
WHAT!?!?!?!?
Are you kidding me, SOE holding Vanguard back? SOE is responsible for making the game more then halfway-decent, and for pulling something enjoyable out of that steaming waaaaay undercooked pile of rubbish that McQuaid left behind for them to clean up. And they did. Vanguard is only what it is today b/c SOE took it and applied the same formula they used to fix EQ2. Vanguard and EQ2 are alike in soooo many ways, both were games McQuaid started and left before they were complete, both were a mess at launch, and both have recovered to become solid, enjoyable games. Especially EQ2, that game has come a very long way and is now a very solid game. Vanguard is on it's way, it's gotten progressively better and will only continue to improve.
You're theory about holding it back is rediculous. Why would they want to hold it back? They own it outright. They have nothing to gain by holding it back, and only stand to lose if it doesn't succeed.
As for Hellgate....well, I actually kind of liked Hellgate. Should it ever have been labeled as an MMO? No way, no how. Flagship tried to make the game everything, to everyone, and they actually came pretty close, but in the end they lost focus and the game lost it's identity. I think if they would have just went the route of selling the box, and then started working on an xpac, w/ smaller, quality chunks of DLCs to keep the studio running. It turned out that the game actually was fun, it just lacked cohesiveness, and suffered b/c of it.
I can't comment on Tabula Rasa b/c I never got into it. The concept seemed pretty cool, and I definitely feel for the people that called it's world "home". I have to say though that it sure seems Mr.Garriot lost focus at some point. I don't think he has wanted to, or has, design any games in a good long time. The passion for game design has left him, just look at the last couple of games he put out compared to the first couple. His early games were deep, expansive, and more then anything immersive, you could just tell that a lot of love went into the games. But Tabula Rasa, and even the last few Ultima games, lacked that essence. They almost had it, and you could tell that the potential for greatness was there, it was just never fully realized. It's a shame really....
Have you really played Vanguard honestly??? You say what you say like i was bringing it down. Which i never did... i said it's a good game... and by far one of my fav's.Yes SoE has fixed up the game, but it took them a LONG time to do so. Plus SoE has held back Vanguard a good deal.... that game is no where it could be.
It takes them 2-4 months to bring out a new update... granted their big.... but all the time they put in their precious EQ... they could be making VG alot better.
Any VG fan.. could honestly tell you.. SoE is holding it back from what it can be.
{ Mod Edit }
Ok....you have already contradicted yourself a few times while talking about this, not to mention you resorted to personal attacks which further shows your lack of ability to explain your position and iterate your thoughts. Allow me to point out the flaws in your logic so you can see how little sense your arguments make.
First, yes I have played Vanguard. Am I a Vanguard player? No. I checked it out at release, and have checked back in on it a couple of times since then, and I have to say that I only see improvement in almost every aspect of the game. Vanguard has always oozed potential, but b/c of McQuaids lack to effectively manage a studio, the potential was never fully realized.
SoE saw that potential and saved the game when M$ dropped it, so already if it wasn't for SoE the game never would have even released. Now, they could have just released it, and left it alone, but they didn't. They put a competant team to work on the game, and it has improved immensely.
You complain about how LONG it took them to fix things....that's b/c there was soooo MUCH to fix. The game was a steaming pile of half-finished, unrealized potential when SoE took over, and they made it into a more then decent game.
It takes 2-4 months to release and update you say. Then, in the same breath, you admit that they are large updates, well lets see....I wonder why they take 2-4 months....maybe b/c they put a lot of work into the updates, and said work takes time? mmmmmmm.....logic
Your supposition that SoE puts time and effort into EQ that could be put into Vanguard is equally as rediculous, actually, probably more so, as the rest of your post. There are seperate teams working on each game, so how is time spent developing EQ/EQ2 taking anything away from Vanguard? Oh yeah, it's not.
I'm sorry mate, but if it wasn't for SoE, there wouldn't even be Vanguard. I will give you that it's kind of odd there hasn't been an xpac announced, especially as this IS SoE we're talking about, the company that at one time was releasing an xpac for EQ every 6 months. But to that, I have to assume their recent change in design philosophy is responsible....They no long will rush xpacs out just for the sake of making a few easy bucks. I believe the reason there hasn't been talk of an xpac for Vanguard yet is b/c they want to make sure what is already in the game is where it should be, before expanding on it. It makes sense, no?
Again, I have to reiterate that it makes no sense for SoE to want Vanguard to fail. They own it outright, IP, engine, everything is theirs. So please, tell me why they would want to hold it back? They only stand to gain from making it better, which by your own admission, they HAVE made it bette, so why would they stop now. It's nonsensical to think they would intentionally hold it back.
If you are trying to say that SoE isn't competant enough to help Vanguard live up to it's potential...well, all I can say to that is....neither were it's original dev team, obviously. IMO, there is no one better suited, in the whole of the MMO industry, to turn Vanguard around. They have experience with cleaning up McQuaids abandoned projects, and making them MUCH better games then they were. They did it w/ EQ2, which is actually has a LOT in common w/ Vanguard, both were projects McQuaid started but never finished. Both were in a sad state at release, but b/c of their devotion and hard work, both are MUCH, MUCH better games then they were when they released.
Vanguard is on it's way up, and is only going to get better.
let me ask you this, how, exactly, is SoE holding it back? How could it be made a better game, what needs to be done to make them game what it could be?
1. Please get off your high horse.
2. Yes SoE has saved the game. I already know this... i have a couple 50's in Vanguard... and enjoy the game dearly.
3. They have improved preformance. And added new things into the game.
4.
So what happens is McQuaid very incompotent jackhole... with his dev team, that hasn't made a mmorpg in their life...make Vanguard which already died onced then brought back before SoE came in... mind you. They get screwed out by Microsoft... they know shit storm that was going to come out of Vanguard. Sigil is losing out on time and money. SoE comes in publishes the game, waits for Sigil to die.... and gain another game for themself.
Then Soe After two years, they put in two raid areas. Performance can still be a pain.. after two years. Character customization was gutted and ripped, put back in... numerous character model changes... that could've been spent on something else. Theres some jobs still waiting their class revamp... for christ sakes. After two years... we have gotten way to many mounts, two raid areas, rifts. Hmmmmm guess those updates werent as big as they made them to be.
When there supposed to be all this coool shit in the game.. IE Ship Combat. It really does take them a long time. 2 fucking years!.. to make VG worth anything. SoE knows they can make this game WAYY better then it is. But if they do, it will overshadow their EQ games... and thats been their trademark game for to long now. And the only games they wanted to be truely noted for. So thats why they drag VG on slowly.
EDIT- For got to add... It's not SoE want's VG to fail... but if they wanted it to.. you wouldn't know why?????????? This is SoE who.. destroyed one of the greatest game ever in SWG. And still tell people it was the right decision... and still refuse to go back to the Pre-CU, Pre-NGE.
Why would they waste tons of money furthing developing a game that has little subscribers. Of course, EQ2 is going to get more work done to it, IT HAS MORE SUBSCRIBERS. If you wanna complain about ship combat, complain to sigil about that. Soe has fixed lots of stuff in Vanguard and if there was more subscribers, you would see even more done to it. It takes money to pay for more developers. Your whole point was that SOE is holding this game back but you haven't proved that they are besides saying they aren't fixing the stuff YOU want, or they aren't fixing it fast enough for YOU.
{ Mod Edit }
{ Mod Edit }I'm pretty sure Vanguard is much bigger then EQ2. EQ2 in todays measures would be considered a flop. Vanguard has millions of oversea's players.
I am sorry but you are wrong my friend. Vanguard DOES NOT have a million subscribers, you musta pulled those numbers out of your rear LOL. Vanguard has less then 50k subscribers. Eq2 has over 200k, EQ2 is much a bigger game in terms of subs, it has 4 times the amount of players that Vanguard does. You cannot call EQ2 a flop without calling Vanguard a MUCH bigger flop.
Vanguard was dumped by Microsoft because it was hemoraging money. SOE bought it at a bargain price and has put money and time into fixing it. That is much more then some other companies would do. To complain that SOE is holding Vanguard back is just delusional and without merit.
Whoa, what crawled up your ass and died!?
Despite Tabula Rasa being lackluster in the content. It actually was fun.... but content and fanboi's held the game back... this game is riding on alot of potential... but the dev's were just a bunch of retards. Give this game to a REAL dev team... this game would be 10X better.
Hellgate... purely sucked, never was a mmorpg, shouldn't even been treated as one. And Bill Roper is a ass clown, ... that knew his game was going to fail before starting beta.
Vanguard??.... That game is actually good.... dumbass SOE is holding it back, ... cause they knows it's better then their precious EQ.
WHAT!?!?!?!?
Are you kidding me, SOE holding Vanguard back? SOE is responsible for making the game more then halfway-decent, and for pulling something enjoyable out of that steaming waaaaay undercooked pile of rubbish that McQuaid left behind for them to clean up. And they did. Vanguard is only what it is today b/c SOE took it and applied the same formula they used to fix EQ2. Vanguard and EQ2 are alike in soooo many ways, both were games McQuaid started and left before they were complete, both were a mess at launch, and both have recovered to become solid, enjoyable games. Especially EQ2, that game has come a very long way and is now a very solid game. Vanguard is on it's way, it's gotten progressively better and will only continue to improve.
You're theory about holding it back is rediculous. Why would they want to hold it back? They own it outright. They have nothing to gain by holding it back, and only stand to lose if it doesn't succeed.
As for Hellgate....well, I actually kind of liked Hellgate. Should it ever have been labeled as an MMO? No way, no how. Flagship tried to make the game everything, to everyone, and they actually came pretty close, but in the end they lost focus and the game lost it's identity. I think if they would have just went the route of selling the box, and then started working on an xpac, w/ smaller, quality chunks of DLCs to keep the studio running. It turned out that the game actually was fun, it just lacked cohesiveness, and suffered b/c of it.
I can't comment on Tabula Rasa b/c I never got into it. The concept seemed pretty cool, and I definitely feel for the people that called it's world "home". I have to say though that it sure seems Mr.Garriot lost focus at some point. I don't think he has wanted to, or has, design any games in a good long time. The passion for game design has left him, just look at the last couple of games he put out compared to the first couple. His early games were deep, expansive, and more then anything immersive, you could just tell that a lot of love went into the games. But Tabula Rasa, and even the last few Ultima games, lacked that essence. They almost had it, and you could tell that the potential for greatness was there, it was just never fully realized. It's a shame really....
Have you really played Vanguard honestly??? You say what you say like i was bringing it down. Which i never did... i said it's a good game... and by far one of my fav's.Yes SoE has fixed up the game, but it took them a LONG time to do so. Plus SoE has held back Vanguard a good deal.... that game is no where it could be.
It takes them 2-4 months to bring out a new update... granted their big.... but all the time they put in their precious EQ... they could be making VG alot better.
Any VG fan.. could honestly tell you.. SoE is holding it back from what it can be.
{ Mod Edit }
Ok....you have already contradicted yourself a few times while talking about this, not to mention you resorted to personal attacks which further shows your lack of ability to explain your position and iterate your thoughts. Allow me to point out the flaws in your logic so you can see how little sense your arguments make.
First, yes I have played Vanguard. Am I a Vanguard player? No. I checked it out at release, and have checked back in on it a couple of times since then, and I have to say that I only see improvement in almost every aspect of the game. Vanguard has always oozed potential, but b/c of McQuaids lack to effectively manage a studio, the potential was never fully realized.
SoE saw that potential and saved the game when M$ dropped it, so already if it wasn't for SoE the game never would have even released. Now, they could have just released it, and left it alone, but they didn't. They put a competant team to work on the game, and it has improved immensely.
You complain about how LONG it took them to fix things....that's b/c there was soooo MUCH to fix. The game was a steaming pile of half-finished, unrealized potential when SoE took over, and they made it into a more then decent game.
It takes 2-4 months to release and update you say. Then, in the same breath, you admit that they are large updates, well lets see....I wonder why they take 2-4 months....maybe b/c they put a lot of work into the updates, and said work takes time? mmmmmmm.....logic
Your supposition that SoE puts time and effort into EQ that could be put into Vanguard is equally as rediculous, actually, probably more so, as the rest of your post. There are seperate teams working on each game, so how is time spent developing EQ/EQ2 taking anything away from Vanguard? Oh yeah, it's not.
I'm sorry mate, but if it wasn't for SoE, there wouldn't even be Vanguard. I will give you that it's kind of odd there hasn't been an xpac announced, especially as this IS SoE we're talking about, the company that at one time was releasing an xpac for EQ every 6 months. But to that, I have to assume their recent change in design philosophy is responsible....They no long will rush xpacs out just for the sake of making a few easy bucks. I believe the reason there hasn't been talk of an xpac for Vanguard yet is b/c they want to make sure what is already in the game is where it should be, before expanding on it. It makes sense, no?
Again, I have to reiterate that it makes no sense for SoE to want Vanguard to fail. They own it outright, IP, engine, everything is theirs. So please, tell me why they would want to hold it back? They only stand to gain from making it better, which by your own admission, they HAVE made it bette, so why would they stop now. It's nonsensical to think they would intentionally hold it back.
If you are trying to say that SoE isn't competant enough to help Vanguard live up to it's potential...well, all I can say to that is....neither were it's original dev team, obviously. IMO, there is no one better suited, in the whole of the MMO industry, to turn Vanguard around. They have experience with cleaning up McQuaids abandoned projects, and making them MUCH better games then they were. They did it w/ EQ2, which is actually has a LOT in common w/ Vanguard, both were projects McQuaid started but never finished. Both were in a sad state at release, but b/c of their devotion and hard work, both are MUCH, MUCH better games then they were when they released.
Vanguard is on it's way up, and is only going to get better.
let me ask you this, how, exactly, is SoE holding it back? How could it be made a better game, what needs to be done to make them game what it could be?
1. Please get off your high horse.
2. Yes SoE has saved the game. I already know this... i have a couple 50's in Vanguard... and enjoy the game dearly.
3. They have improved preformance. And added new things into the game.
4.
So what happens is McQuaid very incompotent jackhole... with his dev team, that hasn't made a mmorpg in their life...make Vanguard which already died onced then brought back before SoE came in... mind you. They get screwed out by Microsoft... they know shit storm that was going to come out of Vanguard. Sigil is losing out on time and money. SoE comes in publishes the game, waits for Sigil to die.... and gain another game for themself.
Then Soe After two years, they put in two raid areas. Performance can still be a pain.. after two years. Character customization was gutted and ripped, put back in... numerous character model changes... that could've been spent on something else. Theres some jobs still waiting their class revamp... for christ sakes. After two years... we have gotten way to many mounts, two raid areas, rifts. Hmmmmm guess those updates werent as big as they made them to be.
When there supposed to be all this coool shit in the game.. IE Ship Combat. It really does take them a long time. 2 fucking years!.. to make VG worth anything. SoE knows they can make this game WAYY better then it is. But if they do, it will overshadow their EQ games... and thats been their trademark game for to long now. And the only games they wanted to be truely noted for. So thats why they drag VG on slowly.
EDIT- For got to add... It's not SoE want's VG to fail... but if they wanted it to.. you wouldn't know why?????????? This is SoE who.. destroyed one of the greatest game ever in SWG. And still tell people it was the right decision... and still refuse to go back to the Pre-CU, Pre-NGE.
Why would they waste tons of money furthing developing a game that has little subscribers. Of course, EQ2 is going to get more work done to it, IT HAS MORE SUBSCRIBERS. If you wanna complain about ship combat, complain to sigil about that. Soe has fixed lots of stuff in Vanguard and if there was more subscribers, you would see even more done to it. It takes money to pay for more developers. Your whole point was that SOE is holding this game back but you haven't proved that they are besides saying they aren't fixing the stuff YOU want, or they aren't fixing it fast enough for YOU.
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{ Mod Edit }Honestly just scrambled through some of the text
But TR maybe was not that of a good game but definetely it wasnt so bad that it needed to be axed within a year .
I had tried out TR and honestly compared to AOC , TR fairs much better .
Yes I do feel if the game was in the hands of competent devs theyy could have salvaged something as in the case with AOC what we are seeing now.
NCsoft might be feeling the economic slowdown pressure to downsize and be more competetive ,bleeding white elephants need to be killed asap.
They have 2 flagship portfolios lined up for next year AION ( heard good reviews about it ) and Guild wars 2 ( I played GW so I know GW2 will strike gold atleast at launch).
I hope AION turns out to be a cool game. When I first saw the trailer where you could fly with wings it peaked my interest. Hopefully it doesn't turn into another Tabula Rasa.
LOL they're closing TR down in Feb? That's Auto Assault all over again.
I am sorry but you are wrong my friend. Vanguard DOES NOT have a million subscribers, you musta pulled those numbers out of your rear LOL. Vanguard has less then 50k subscribers. Eq2 has over 200k, EQ2 is much a bigger game in terms of subs, it has 4 times the amount of players that Vanguard does. You cannot call EQ2 a flop without calling Vanguard a MUCH bigger flop.
Vanguard was dumped by Microsoft because it was hemoraging money. SOE bought it at a bargain price and has put money and time into fixing it. That is much more then some other companies would do. To complain that SOE is holding Vanguard back is just delusional and without merit.
All of SOE's games are or turns into a disaster, well except EQ2 but EQ2's population isn't 200K anymore, it's slowly dropping like every other MMO game except WoW these days. If I were in charge of SOE I'd just focus 100% on EQ2 and forget everything else.
EvE Online demonstrates that a different game can be successful if the quality is there
. But they did start out with a low population, so your comment about coping with that is correct. Which obviously leads to the necessity of maintaining games with a small team, if you don't get lots of customers right away.
Considering maturity, most of it has to be there at launch. Missing a few details is acceptable, but launching with lots of bugs and only half the features the competition already has is self defeating. The publishers have no one to blame but themselves for that. This makes it hard for new publishers without lots of money to get in the market, but that is no excuse for launching crap.
This may have been different when MMORPGs were new, MMO veterans report that both Anarchy Online and EvE had a rather bumpy start. But today players will simply move to another game.
Also, you have to think that part of the reason that Funcom and CCP decided to stay the course and fix their games rather than shutting down was that neither of them had a "plan B" to fall back on, each had just their one respective game to work on thus "putting all their eggs into one basket" so so speak. They had the choice to fight to fix their game or die. NCsoft didn't have such a choice. They have a lot of other games they can easily ride on as well as more games coming in the near future so from their point of view it made more sense to write Tabula Rasa off rather than sink more money into a game they didn't really need to survive.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
I am sorry but you are wrong my friend. Vanguard DOES NOT have a million subscribers, you musta pulled those numbers out of your rear LOL. Vanguard has less then 50k subscribers. Eq2 has over 200k, EQ2 is much a bigger game in terms of subs, it has 4 times the amount of players that Vanguard does. You cannot call EQ2 a flop without calling Vanguard a MUCH bigger flop.
Vanguard was dumped by Microsoft because it was hemoraging money. SOE bought it at a bargain price and has put money and time into fixing it. That is much more then some other companies would do. To complain that SOE is holding Vanguard back is just delusional and without merit.
All of SOE's games are or turns into a disaster, well except EQ2 but EQ2's population isn't 200K anymore, it's slowly dropping like every other MMO game except WoW these days. If I were in charge of SOE I'd just focus 100% on EQ2 and forget everything else.
As of April 2008 they had over 200k subs. They have stayed at 200-250k for a few years now. They have a loyal fanbase. Neither of us can say exactly the amount of subscribers they have currently as there hasn't been any very recent data released as far as I know. My point still stands, eq2 is way bigger then Vanguard in terms of subscriptions.