Character attachment..

Random_mage · November 2008

If most games you play, you become attached to your character (I know a lot of you still haven't deleted your first character from your first MMORPG.. I know i haven't)..

Do you see what sort of attachment with your character in Darkfall where nothign you have really means anything (equipment you worked hard for taken at the drop of a hat, skills that will just degrade if not used.. )

What sort of long term attachment does that foster? And with out that attachment.. doesn't that just make Darkfall a run of the mill Shooter, a kin to Counter-Strike?

Thoughts?

Mahlo · November 2008

Very true. There's also the fact that the characters look really ugly too. And I mean bad ugly.

SignusM · November 2008

Originally posted by Random_mage

If most games you play, you become attached to your character (I know a lot of you still haven't deleted your first character from your first MMORPG.. I know i haven't)..
Do you see what sort of attachment with your character in Darkfall where nothign you have really means anything (equipment you worked hard for taken at the drop of a hat, skills that will just degrade if not used.. )
What sort of long term attachment does that foster? And with out that attachment.. doesn't that just make Darkfall a run of the mill Shooter, a kin to Counter-Strike?

Thoughts?

Are you saying that being fond of a character directly correlates to how much gear he has? Just put stuff in the bank. And SOME skills only decay past level 75. And since it is one character per server, you'll REALLY get attached to that first character :P

There is so much stuff to track you in the game, your alignment, who you've killed, your name on what is crafted, owning a house, being part of a guild owning a city, what's not to get attached to?

Raven · November 2008

Originally posted by Random_mage

If most games you play, you become attached to your character (I know a lot of you still haven't deleted your first character from your first MMORPG.. I know i haven't)..
Do you see what sort of attachment with your character in Darkfall where nothign you have really means anything (equipment you worked hard for taken at the drop of a hat, skills that will just degrade if not used.. )
What sort of long term attachment does that foster? And with out that attachment.. doesn't that just make Darkfall a run of the mill Shooter, a kin to Counter-Strike?

Thoughts?

That is a good point, I guess thats the why I dont like the full loot concept, its really a double edged sword, one end you have loot based where your loot is the most precious thing you can get and on the other end you have full loot where equipment is so dumbed down and common, because you will eventually loose your gear, it needs to be easily acquirable.

That also brings up another question, what if a group of people band together from the start and just keep killing everyone on the server,surely you will hit a wall where you cant afford/acquire more gear to replace your own and you wont be able to fight back.

This is not unseen in L2 even tho you had so many penalties in place the strongest guilds ended up banding together at the start and siimply took over the server, XP spots, bosses, castles. And this is not even taking into account full body loot.

Random_mage · November 2008

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Random_mage

If most games you play, you become attached to your character (I know a lot of you still haven't deleted your first character from your first MMORPG.. I know i haven't)..
Do you see what sort of attachment with your character in Darkfall where nothign you have really means anything (equipment you worked hard for taken at the drop of a hat, skills that will just degrade if not used.. )
What sort of long term attachment does that foster? And with out that attachment.. doesn't that just make Darkfall a run of the mill Shooter, a kin to Counter-Strike?

Thoughts?

Are you saying that being fond of a character directly correlates to how much gear he has? Just put stuff in the bank. And SOME skills only decay past level 75. And since it is one character per server, you'll REALLY get attached to that first character :P

There is so much stuff to track you in the game, your alignment, who you've killed, your name on what is crafted, owning a house, being part of a guild owning a city, what's not to get attached to?

You work hard for the gear.. so you remember the adventure. When you die, in most games, you will still have that gear to remind you of your hard work.. And the Bank Comment.. That's ridiculous.. What's the point of having the "Sword of Frozen Power" If you can't use it to slay thyne enemies? Because.. well.. it's banked.. and chances are if you aren't running with a gank squad.. It's lost..

And for the rest of the comment..

alignment - WoW had faction, so did Vanguard..

CS has charts that track who I've killed and been killed by

Name on what I've crafted - You sort of have a point here.. although I don't imagine their being any unique items.. and I've never really been a crafter

Owing a house? LOL.. I don't like dolls.. I don't care about decrating my house.. It's just another "recall" point.

Owning a city - Could be cool.. although if we aren't defending it 24/7.. the european group will just take it back.. (guild is based in PST-EST)

If I've learned anything in life.. It's "Don't become attached to anything that can be easily taken away"..

DarthRaiden · November 2008

In DarkFall you may will get attached to your out of game skills more..like how well you do mastered certain situations ..

DarKfall may even immerse more of "yourself" then other games cause in game items will not count but more off your "real life" skills you have to put into .. you real abilty to be sneaky ..you real ability to hear someone is getting to you ..you real reactiontime to dodge something shot at you..

i think my argument is clear ..DarkFall may get more you real self involved then your pixel self ..

The identifation level will be bigger in DarkFall..cause you will be more aware of your actions and consequences then in most other games ..a victore will be more of an accomplisgh then may in any other game aswell as a defeat may will count more to you then the loss of some pixels in any other game ...

Ihmotepp · November 2008

Originally posted by Random_mage

If most games you play, you become attached to your character (I know a lot of you still haven't deleted your first character from your first MMORPG.. I know i haven't)..
Do you see what sort of attachment with your character in Darkfall where nothign you have really means anything (equipment you worked hard for taken at the drop of a hat, skills that will just degrade if not used.. )
What sort of long term attachment does that foster? And with out that attachment.. doesn't that just make Darkfall a run of the mill Shooter, a kin to Counter-Strike?

Thoughts?

According to some posters, it doesn't really matter if your skills decay or not, because your l33t fps skills are what will detemine the outcome fo combat.

So what you got a bunch of skills, and you've played the game for 6 months, a twithch monkey can start playing the game an in a week, he will clean your clock.

Won't be guns, but will be spells, but you get the idea:

DarthRaiden · November 2008

Yes you have to aim for yourself in DarkFall and the accomplish of hitting someone will be more gratefull then in other games..you have to practice this over the years to get good at it and that will build add to identifation you may grow with the in game actions..

Ihmotepp · November 2008

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Yes you have to aim for yourself in DarkFall and the accomplish of hitting someone will be more gratefull then in other games..you have to practice this over the years to get good at it and that will build add to identifation you may grow with the in game actions..

The FPS veterans have already practiced for years. Mouse and keyboard twitch skills are the same in every game.

WASD, point with mouse, PWN!

sickdoll · November 2008

If you played UO you would not post such a rediculous OP. When gear can be lost so easily, it points to a level playing field, where gear can be replenished. And skill degredation is a nice factor as you will always be what you do, not some run of the mill cookie cuter character.

Ihmotepp · November 2008

Originally posted by sickdoll

If you played UO you would not post such a rediculous OP. When gear can be lost so easily, it points to a level playing field, where gear can be replenished. And skill degredation is a nice factor as you will always be what you do, not some run of the mill cookie cuter character.

Or you will always have to do what you want to be.

ellobo29 · November 2008

like in EVE you dont really become fond of your ships or the ammo in them.... what you become attatched too is your home in the game. your territory that you etched for your self. this is the line in the sand you have drawn, nobody can cross it.......and when any thing threatens that line. they will meet the pointy end of your sword.

weather your home is a castle, a territory controlled by your 300+ member guild, or a tent on a far away island. it will aways hurt when someone takes whats yours. and there will always be someone willing too take it from you.

it will be interesting too see how the first couple of months go once released, its gunna be a massive land grab

Random_mage · November 2008

Originally posted by sickdoll

If you played UO you would not post such a rediculous OP. When gear can be lost so easily, it points to a level playing field, where gear can be replenished. And skill degredation is a nice factor as you will always be what you do, not some run of the mill cookie cuter character.

.. Didnt play UO.. played AC

So.. your flame fails in that instance..

And if you read the original post, it shows that I kept that character (and yes, I could be killed and looted).. but I worked for everything I had..

And newness of your first MMORPG will always keep that in your mind..

but this is not going to be anyones first MMORPG.. so what makes it so much different that the FPS you can just load up and play..?

Ihmotepp · November 2008

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by sickdoll

If you played UO you would not post such a rediculous OP. When gear can be lost so easily, it points to a level playing field, where gear can be replenished. And skill degredation is a nice factor as you will always be what you do, not some run of the mill cookie cuter character.

.. Didnt play UO.. played AC

So.. your flame fails in that instance..

And if you read the original post, it shows that I kept that character (and yes, I could be killed and looted).. but I worked for everything I had..

And newness of your first MMORPG will always keep that in your mind..

but this is not going to be anyones first MMORPG.. so what makes it so much different that the FPS you can just load up and play..?

Persistent territory control.

svann · November 2008

Hey if you die and lose all your stuff, just go kill someone and take all their stuff and youre set again. What goes around comes around. (or is it what comes around goes around?)

sickdoll · November 2008

Darkfall is a first person MMO, not a first person shooter. Darkfall is a persistant game world. Shooters r shooters.

imbant · November 2008

Sigh...however i guess this is better than his other threads.

1) this isn't WoW. you won't be "working hard for your gear"...gear is not very important. step away from the gear grinding carebearness and try and understand that.

2) skills do not degrade very fast. its not like you go to the bathroom and bam you come back and you cant use a sword. If i make a char that is heavy armor and all sword skills....and thats all i ever do then im never going to worry about skills degrading.

calling df a kin to a fps is just ridiculous and im not going to call you a troll but you are clearly misinformed. post history shows your intentions.

DarthRaiden · November 2008

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Yes you have to aim for yourself in DarkFall and the accomplish of hitting someone will be more gratefull then in other games..you have to practice this over the years to get good at it and that will build add to identifation you may grow with the in game actions..

The FPS veterans have already practiced for years. Mouse and keyboard twitch skills are the same in every game.

WASD, point with mouse, PWN!

Is there any Bow FPS out there i should know ? In DarkFall you have to gain skill over the years to learn how to hit someone in 100m distance unlike you funny image in your last post suggests with that skill technic you describe you maybe hit someone at 5 meters max ..need more then this..

imbant · November 2008

Also want to point out that WoW is that way -------->

WAR is that way too, they are very close to eachother ------->

Point is that you need to realize this is a different game. The fun in this game isnt from gaining gear or upping your stats to brag to your friends and come to forums and say "look at my leet armory omg epic lulz"

The fun comes from the experience in playing the game. The immersion. Which is what games are about, or at least what they should be and what other mmos are moving away from.

Im not trying to say if you dont like DF then you arent a gamer or something...but just as a wow fanboi may get shocked by what i said above, someone who is into DF or MO etc looks at someone like the OP and wonders what they are smoking.

Prexis · November 2008

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by sickdoll

If you played UO you would not post such a rediculous OP. When gear can be lost so easily, it points to a level playing field, where gear can be replenished. And skill degredation is a nice factor as you will always be what you do, not some run of the mill cookie cuter character.

Or you will always have to do what you want to be.

Not really. Skill will only degrade while you are online and likely only after the soft cap really starts to kick in. anything that you would use on even a remotely regular basis will not be lost. and anything you don't use will drop and make way in the soft cap to speed progress on the skills and spells you are training up.

to the OP

[quote]Originally posted by Random_mage

If most games you play, you become attached to your character (I know a lot of you still haven't deleted your first character from your first MMORPG.. I know i haven't)..

Do you see what sort of attachment with your character in Darkfall where nothing you have really means anything (equipment you worked hard for taken at the drop of a hat, skills that will just degrade if not used.. )

What sort of long term attachment does that foster? And with out that attachment.. doesn't that just make Darkfall a run of the mill Shooter, a kin to Counter-Strike?

Thoughts?[/quote]

I would think that character attachment would come from the same place it does in games like EVE and Shadowbane.

First and foremost theres the attachment that comes from being limited to a single character per account. On top of that, the more time put into that character the more you can diversify your skillset.

As I mentioned skills don't degrade when you are offline and Aventurine has said that it's possible to gain all skills (though this would take many years) this to me says that skills don't degrade terribly fast... and of course they only degrade when you don't use them otherwise they go up. So your character can develop in whichever way you wish. This can be very intuitive to matching your exact playstyle.

When it comes to items having all items craftable is just one thing. yes that will eliminate some of the prestiege of having gone through some epic raid... but theres a bigger upside to this than a downside. and that leads me to community.

The big thing about a system like darkfalls is that you can truly influence it. Your name can mean something, your guild can have an impact on the political climate of the game. it can try to take the server or be the first to push back or rally forces agaignst the opressors. and you can be a part of that. In shadowbane individuals could be well known for many things.

This gets expanded when you consider crafting and the fact that your name can get out there as a crafter of the finest weapons or armors.

So what does Darkfall bring to the table with regards to building an attachment to your character?

well you only get one character

you can mold it and shape it to your tastes and playstyle

and most importantly you can actually influence the world, you can directly affect and be affected by other players actions, and you have the tools and accountability to react.

Your name can be known, your guild can be known.

It's not about what you have physically. it's about how you can turn the tide of battle, change the political climate of the game, piss off another player or get pissed off by one and seek revenge and have even his or her name remembered you.

I'm not speculating, there have been games that do various aspects of what darkfall will try to do. and I think they are fair examples. Look at the crafting system in EVE, the political climate that arises from a nation building and conquering system like that. Look at shadowbane and how entire servers could eb and sway under large guilds. Look at UO and how individuals could be known and people could truly be attached to their character for what they could do not just what they had.

demalus · November 2008

@OP:

Imagine a game where you became attached to your CHARACTER and not your GEAR.

imbant · November 2008

Originally posted by demalus

@OP:
Imagine a game where you became attached to your CHARACTER and not your GEAR.

This.

I forget that some of these kids were raised on WoW and don't know anything else. But people actually get attached to their character by getting attached to the in game experiences, relationships, and reputation that you gain by playing the game.

Ihmotepp · November 2008

Originally posted by imbant

2) skills do not degrade very fast. its not like you go to the bathroom and bam you come back and you cant use a sword. If i make a char that is heavy armor and all sword skills....and thats all i ever do then im never going to worry about skills degrading.

That's not true. I read one of the Italian reviewers took a sip of his Stella Artois while playing, and after that he couldn't swing hsi sword, because all his skillz had degraded.

Kyleran · November 2008

Originally posted by imbant

Originally posted by demalus

@OP:
Imagine a game where you became attached to your CHARACTER and not your GEAR.

This.

I forget that some of these kids were raised on WoW and don't know anything else. But people actually get attached to their character by getting attached to the in game experiences, relationships, and reputation that you gain by playing the game.

I play EVE. I am attached to my character, and certainly not to the ships he flys. I proudly state that both of my characters (on separate accounts) have over 25 M Skill points, and can fly a wide variety of ships up to the Battleship and T2 HAC level.

As for the actual ships, I have no attachment at all. One gets blown up, no big deal, I go out and grab another just like it.

I imagine DF will be a lot like that.

Also, the ships I fly take real skill to succeed, and whenever I start to get good in one, I feel a real sense of accomplishment (curse the Interceptor, I plain suck at that ship)

I suppose DF will also be like this. Once I learn to become a proficient archer, and can actually hit a target at range with consistency, I'll feel a real sense of accomplishment. (or throw down my bow in anguish if I can't master it and grab a mace and go pummel something close up)

Point is...you don't get attached to your gear or your levels. They are not what matters.

imbant · November 2008

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by imbant

Originally posted by demalus

@OP:
Imagine a game where you became attached to your CHARACTER and not your GEAR.

This.

I forget that some of these kids were raised on WoW and don't know anything else. But people actually get attached to their character by getting attached to the in game experiences, relationships, and reputation that you gain by playing the game.

I play EVE. I am attached to my character, and certainly not to the ships he flys. I proudly state that both of my characters (on separate accounts) have over 25 M Skill points, and can fly a wide variety of ships up to the Battleship and T2 HAC level.

As for the actual ships, I have no attachment at all. One gets blown up, no big deal, I go out and grab another just like it.

I imagine DF will be a lot like that.

Also, the ships I fly take real skill to succeed, and whenever I start to get good in one, I feel a real sense of accomplishment (curse the Interceptor, I plain suck at that ship)

I suppose DF will also be like this. Once I learn to become a proficient archer, and can actually hit a target at range with consistency, I'll feel a real sense of accomplishment. (or throw down my bow in anguish if I can't master it and grab a mace and go pummel something close up)

Point is...you don't get attached to your gear or your levels. They are not what matters.

Yea EVE is a great example, thanks for bringing it up. I played EVE off and on as my back up game for years.

Great example of a game that lets you get attached to your "character" without taking into consideration gear (modules, ships) or other WoW-esque carrots on a stick.

Drukstylz · November 2008

I think a better analogy would be that standard MMO's are like books. You go from chapter to chapter, when you get to the end, the developer sometimes add's new contents/chapters to keep you hooked. You get attached to being spoon fed and living in someone else's story.

The idea of having to think for themselves, or loosing precious loot scares people. Loot is junk, go back to your first mmo, all your uber loot is trash now, and none of your friends play anymore. All you have is memories of experiences. That's what DarkFall brings, experiences, the kind you can't get from farming 200 hours for epic fail.

I'll tell you what epic loot is. It's standing over the corpse of the guy who tried to knife you in the back, and dry looting the SoB.

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Character attachment..

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Character attachment..

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