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Class balance in the "other" game
Neochrome
Member Posts: 59
In a moment of weakness (heh) I decided to check what is going on with WoW classes. Check these:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-paladin&t=7493&p=1#post7493
"The joy started to decline when I more and more started to notice things like the tanking-problem, our lack of ranged attacks and our general lack of combat options.
Now, if your class is boring and frustrating to play, then I for one think that proves that the class sucks."
Or this:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-priest&t=9134&p=1#post9134
"Once again, priests found themselves being discouraged from casting anything but greater heal. Additionally, it may have introduced the concept of "rest rotations", a frightening prospect, but we really haven't seen the raid game, so at least that one is more theory than reality at this point. "
Or this:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=10859&p=1#post10859
"The mage I... shoot my primary damage spell, then my other damage spells, then repeat. No strategy to which spells I use (as you really have to focus on mostly one tree or another)"
And so on...
Comments
If you have a problem with WoW, you should try posting it in the WoW forums.
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
Wow! This must be the worst flame ever!!!
I will post whereever I want. You have a problem with that?
His recommendation seems perfectly reasonable to me.
I've levelled a lot of criticism at EQ2, and I debated it in the EQ2 forum. If I'd posted it in the WoW forum I wouldn't have got answers from the people who are excited about the game and have researched it thoroughly.
Pretty obvious stuff, really.
Right so you cut and paste one bad comment out of a critique, and then ignore the rest of the thread where most disagree with the poster in some regards and state why, just so it seems like EVERYONE thinks that and not just one as it truly is. I see no point to your post then subjective and biased copying/pasting quotes out of context. Only redeeming thing in your post is you included the links.
Now if someone goes to those boards, sees the issues, but also sees how many people are enjoying the game, you have done nothing but start a flame war and/or misinformation campaign. Why do people do this
I think this topic needs to be deleted.. there is only one way this thread can go.
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
----------------------------------
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
... And I did say go check those links.
My point is that while EQ2 has lots of balancing issues at hand, WoW seems to have it yet worst. I did preordered both WoW and Eq2, for your info and I WILL play both, at least for a while. Unlike some, I don't think I need to "defend" or "attack" any of those as being my "precious" beloved game.
If I see something that sucks in EQ2 you bet I will screem bloody murder. Same goes for WoW. And if you ARE a WoW fan, believe me, you are better off with me posting in EQ2 section...
EDIT BTW, who ever thought that maturity level in EQ2 is so much higher then in WoW is up for big surprise...
Those complaints are nothing compared to EQ2 beta tester complaints. That last guy who says playing a mage requires no strategy... well, in EQ2 playing a fighter, mage, scout and priest requires no strategy. In EQ2 It is hitting the same buttons over again for all classes..not much more involving than a MUD, and less involving than EQLive. As of the latest patch the tanks are the priest's, since the fighter's can't get the mobs off them. Wuwu, looks like the game is ready now for an SoE, SWG quality release. Not going to buy WoW, but those complaints are no worse than the ones in EQ2.
... And I did say go check those links.
My point is that while EQ2 has lots of balancing issues at hand, WoW seems to have it yet worst. I did preordered both WoW and Eq2, for your info and I WILL play both, at least for a while. Unlike some, I don't think I need to "defend" or "attack" any of those as being my "precious" beloved game.
If I see something that sucks in EQ2 you bet I will screem bloody murder. Same goes for WoW. And if you ARE a WoW fan, believe me, you are better off with me posting in EQ2 section...
EDIT BTW, who ever thought that maturity level in EQ2 is so much higher then in WoW is up for big surprise...
Everyone who posts the maturity between the two games I find is extremely immature themselves. You will find almost zero difference IN GAME between the two, save WoW pvp servers have pvp trash talking, but that is something different. EDIT: I was wrong, forgot you can't trash talk in game at all unless you have two accounts, forums are another matter but everyone can be as "retarded" as they want on them. In game community is what counts.
You also went and found three critical posts over a span of a week (look at thread start dates) where most people replying point out where he is wrong (the majority do not agree with those quotes, yet you assume it automatically means these are huge, gamebreaking issues).
WoW has issues alright, but the ones you pointed out are not them, and just trying to make wow look bad in comparison to the criticism given to EQ 2, makes you look bad. Heck, the biggest issue on the boards today is how overpowering "water walking" is from the point of a few people.
I think the poster is saying "look at the problems they are having with WoW, in case your discouraged with the threads here about classes sucking, WoW is having issues to so don't let that sway your opinion of this game"
so if you don't like his point, that's fine don't respond but I personally think this is a fine post with a good point in it
Those are posts near the forum top, I didn't "search" for posts that "prove" anything, but to simply check should I be paying more attention to WoW instead of EQ2. It is people that made those posts that have "issues" and not me. And compared to EQ2 issues they do seem quiet disconcerting to me. I'm sure there are other classes that work just fine in WoW right now. I checked those that apeall to me.
As for maturity level, it comes from another thread in this section. I said that just because EQ2 has different game mechanics it doesn't mean that players are more mature than in WoW. I find my point validated.
EDIT Ummm, OK, post has been moved to WoW section, would apreciate if there is some note from moderator in future, ty.
OKay seen as the EQ2 NDA has been lifted.
I Have played both EQ2 AND WOW,
Yes I am a EQ2 Beta tester (one of the lucky UK peeps) and a European WoW Closed Tester too.
Now if anything that gives ME some kind of knowledge above your own... i am assuming you aint in the EQ2 beta correct?.
Lets see EQ2 and WoW, its all about preference. WoW is fast and quick to learn but has minimal trade skills EQ2 is slow and harder to learn (as i found out) but has lots of trade skills and extra nibly bits. Both have quests with background and story to keep you playing for ages.
Both games are fine and have different aims/agenda. Both are.... at this time still beta products so judging them at this time is kinda fruitless in any respect.
EQ2 has more char customisations/races/classes etc, whereas WoW seems to lack this lvl of customisations.
Now here comes the final part really.... its all about preference.... i like WoW because A: Its easy to learn and was easy to get into/immersed B: The lvling is fast. Now those could be taken as negatives to another person because they might want a 5 year long char progression with really complicated system etc.
In the end you are doing nothing at all by bashing WoW but showing your own doubts about EQ2. Your trying to convince yourself and 'make it right and justified' by using WoW as a comparison.
In all honesty i didn't like EQ2 because of the graphics and the entire design of the world/characters. It all seemed unrealistic.... its attempted to be graphically stunning yet my brain expects more from something that looks realistic so small imperfections such as goblin walking totally retarded puts me off and reduces immersion into the game. WoW on the other hand has unique unlifelike graphics which i prefer as i expect less from the game and thus become more immersed into its world. EQ2 graphics are in essence too 'bright' for me heh, there is no vibrancy in the colours everything is cream/white and even the grass is light green.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
I do have doubts about EQ2 and that's why I was checking WoW forums. Don't see nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, if you think it is me who is bashing "your" game and not people that made those posts, perhaps you could use a bit of "doubt" yourself. If comparison came the other way I would be much more entushiastic about WoW as I do love PvP. On the other hand, everything else seems to go towards EQ2, at least from my perspective.
Like I said, I will play both games for some time and I only hope I will like at least one.
Did you actually read my post at all?
Ive beta tested both WoW and EQ2 and i see both their good points... Its not a 'your' game at all thing. Its all about preference and personal choice...... i try and make a post untrollable and yet i still get an insult back.
Get of yet high horse for once and see that i wasn't bashing either game nor am i saying WoW is perfect or defending it.... I just prefer WoW over EQ2 THAT IS IT. No 'your' game at all.
Im starting to think you are trying to troll here.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
Whatever dewd. If you see my posting of sample of what beta testers are saying about their experience as "bashing", be it your way. Chalk one up.
Utterly crazy. The reaso this players are saying this is only because they can't get enough of the game. After they write that post they close Internet Explorer and go to play the game with the same character they just trashed. It has been proven. The actual problem is that when you give a player plenty to do, they think it is easy to achieve that and they want more. They dont realize that what they have is enough and that if something is really requiered it will come in time.
While I could find EQ2 playable and even enjoyable, it doesn't even beging to achieve what WoW has, and that few people realize. WoW has united 2 different comunities of players in one whole. It has brought hard core strategy players, and has merge them with MMO enthusiastics. More to that, they have given life to an AMAZING story which is Warcraft (i don't think no one can deny the power of the Warcraft story line).
what bout actually waitin for retail before complainin bout balance issues?!? damn WoW is in beta still, they still will make lots of changes.... same for EQ2....
and besides most of the testers that post in the official WoW class and pvp forums are complainin carebears that just wanna have their fav class overpowered ^_^
anyways my opinion is just wait and see for how the retail looks like b4 makin this ridiculous threads ^_^ cheers
Richijefe... level 61 Silver Ranger on Bartz... quit 4 months ago ^_^
Richijefe
What I don't understand in these kind of threads is why people create them? Why would you want to compare two games?
Are you trying to convert people to play "that other" game ? How is it gonna benefit you in any way?
Both games are great and both games got advantages and disadvantages to MY eyes but will not necessarily be the same way for someone else and thus will affect that person's choice on which game he/she going to play... what do you care that one will go play that game and that other one the other game?
Some people prefer apples over oranges and vise-versa, respect their choices!
Now now give each other a kiss :-)
Balance is an illusion...it doesnt exist unless you want one character model with all the same access to abilities. If that were the case, you can take the "role" out of RPG.
Oh ye while talking about balance...I think its stupid to try to make every classes as effective as the others..
Why? Well because then the winners of a fight will only be "random" and there won't be any strategy anymore, just run into the enemy and cross fingers
Not really fun in my opinion, I prefer classes to have advantages and disadvantages over others classes.
I think the classes will come together. Paladins lacked talents, which is part of the problem for them. Priests and mages get other cool things to do apart from healing and DD.
I think Bliz is doing a good job on that side of things, and I'm looking forward to open beta(c'mon already!).
D
Even if the game were perfectly balanced, there will ALWAYS be whiners. If two players square off and the loser gets handed their ass on a platter, what are they to assume is more likely, that they simply suck at playing the game or their class is gimped? The latter ofcourse! So they go on forums and rant how their class sucks or how the other class is uber. Nuff said.
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Played: Asheron's Call 1, Dark Age of Camelot, Earth & Beyond, Star Wars Galaxies
Tested: Asheron's Call 1, Asheron's Call 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Eve Online, Lineage 2, Risk Your Life, Saga of Ryzom, World of Warcraft
Uninstalled ASAP: MU Online, Knight Online, Rubies of Eventide, Priston Tales, Star Sonata, DarkSpace