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Casual enough for a casual gamer?
KoalaKnight
Member Posts: 8
Okay.. bear with me.. I'm a noob in the ways of EvE. I'm debating picking up EvE as the WoW has once again lost its grand sparkly stature with me. (There's just so much go do this dungeon 40x and hope you get your 1 peice of loot a guy can take.)
So... I've been shopping MMOs. Played CoH / CoV. Meh. Used to love SWG as a crafter. (Before they raped and killed it.) Played EQ. EQ2. Meh. Even tried MxO. Combat is really cool.. but.. yeah, no. Oh, and Tabula Rasa is about to close its doors, so pass.
Here's what I'm looking for and I'll rely on you guys (and girls if we have any) to set me in the right direction.
1. I have a wife / career / & friends. I typically play 1 or 2 hours every night or every third night depending on my time available. Is this enough to get satisfaction out of EvE? For example, all the EQ-clones require raiding that takes hours on hours and if you want to leave, you really screw over the group. EvE being a PvP-oriented game, I'm hoping that's different.
2. Fresh start, new char, new account, new to game. Some people (those who typically get flamed for being simple whiners for wanting EZ mode) complain about noobs getting ganked. Now, I have done SOME homework on this game. Is it safe to say a noob can stay 'moderately' safe in High Sec (I think that's the right term) space to cut their teeth and do some PvE content to learn. Obviously, if you've got something someone wants in your cargo bay, you're still fair game, but it's moderately more safe in the non-FFA zone?
3. How long does it take for your skills to become worthy of dropping into the PvP zones? I know all skills are real-time, so I'm assuming there's a default 'time to let tick' before jumping into PvP? Part b. of that question. Obvoiusly, a itty bitty ship won't take out a giant Titan (btw, the YouTube battles of Titans is awesome.), but aside form that, if someone has played for X years and someone has played for Y months, is it even fathomable that Y can win? (Purely SP vs. SP. Never mind if Y has a clue or not how to play the game.)
4. Is it still fun for you guys? I know ALOT of people in WoW simply stay because they've put so much time into it. It's like Heroin to them. I'm looking less of an addiction and more of a fun downtime game.
That's it from what I can think of. Thanks for your input! 
Comments
Simple answer is no this is not a new player friendly game. Alot of the problem is you have alot of long time players who love to kill new folks and try and get them to quit the game. Just watch the flame fest that comes after me.
MAGA
@Elsabolts - By saying "watch the flames", you are basically egging people on to flame/derail this thread. This are some decent questions that deserve a slightly better answer than "No, Eve hates you and wants to eat your children". Be a little clearer and explain why.
Okay, here is the deal with Eve. Eve is more of a "single unit strategy game" which sets it apart from the normal MMO. The piece that sets it apart is the strategy element. By knowing the mechanics of the game you will be able to bend the rules in your favor. This can be useful to both the pirate/ganker and also the low SP pod pilot.
I have played Eve as a full time MMO and I have played Eve as a part-time/back burner MMO. Both have their unique experiences and feel to it. As a casual player, do not expect to take part in large scale fleet battles or take up 0.0 residence with a large corporation/alliance unless you plan on buying Eve Time Codes and sell them for in game isk.
Why? Because, large corps/alliances tend to expect you to stop everything you are doing on the drop of a dime and take part of battle which will more than likely be the end of your ship. They will tend to expect you to squeeze in "ratting" (killing NPC ships in nullsec space), missions or mining in your own time around their ops. This can leave the new and/or casual player in a constant state of poverty if you never are able to do what you want to do.
If you avoid the large alliance/corp wars - you will be able to, for the most part, play on your own time table. This includes gaining isk to upgrade your skills/ships/implants as well as just messing around and learning the game. There are plenty of smaller corps that recruit new players. Just be sure to use the simple rule of thumb. "If it feels like work, it probably is." Some corporations will take advantage of you and expect you to work for free in exchange for being in their corp. A corp should always provide you with what you need to grow. If it doesn't - than more than likely - you should look for another corp.
When you feel like you would like to take a stab at PvP, I would suggest joining into the Faction based wars. It's a nice way to get your feet wet. Although, you may be going against players with maxed out skills - some areas of the faction based fighting are limited to smaller types of ships. These ships will take less time to max out skill wise allowing you to be on equal ground faster.
One of the major complaints of eve is that you will never be able to catch up skill wise to the veteran players. I have been playing for over 4 years and this statement is absolutely correct. However, you don't need to catch up. Each skill only allows a maximum of 5 points before it is maxed out. Then you move on to another skill. So, just because I have over 50 million skill points doesn't mean that I can completely rofl stomp someone in pvp. In fact, my gunnery skills aren't the best. My railguns are only small and medium specialized and I don't have any specializations in any of the other gunnery sklls. Most of my specializations are in missiles and science/industry. I like to dominate the market instead of the field. And yes, market pvp can be just as cut throat as traditional pvp. In fact, there is more time for smack talk.
In reality, you should be able to pvp once you feel comfortable with your surroundings and ship fit. You can easily assist in a gang with only 2 weeks of time and actually make a decent impact with about 4-5 weeks. The most important thing to do is research what you are interested in and map yourself out a skillplan. Before you know it, you'll be out there pew pewing with the rest of them.
Also, when you are planning out your pvp skills - look at how your money making ship and skills affect how much money you make per hour. You want to try to make the most money you can per hour because, especially for you, time is precious and shouldn't be wasted. There are many ways of doing this, grinding missions for rewards, loyalty points, salvage, etc. - or - using deep space probes to explore hidden npc complexes, databank sites or ancient ruins and loot their valuables - or - making the most of the market by buying low, selling at a higher amount and establishing possible trade routes - or - dig large holes in the sides of rock selling the minerals to the highest bidder. Point is, the faster you fall into the swing of making money and maximizing the isk/hour - the faster you don't have to worry about where your next in-flight meal is coming from. You won't ever be rich only playing 10-12 hours a week, but you do have the ability to be self sufficient.
For the ganking (yes, I know I am answering these out of order - SHUSH!) - yes, for the most part if the ship you are in and the cargo/modules you carry are not worth the loss - the high sec gankers won't bother touching you. Most of the high sec gankers do this as a way to make money. This means that the finanicial loss of their ship (suplimented by their insurance payouts), modules and ammo - must be less than the value of your ship's cargo and/or modules. You will rarely see people blow up their own ship in a high sec gank unless it benefits them in some way.
Eve does seem to have that hook on me. But, it seems the easiest to put on hold because I can continue to train my skills even while I am not actively playing it. I can continue to progress even if I choose not to play it for a couple of weeks or a month.
Although I enjoy Eve a lot, it still is pretty predictable and repative once you know the mechanics. Which is why, and I cannot stress this enough, NEVER STICK TO ONLY ONE THING IN EVE. You will get VERY bored of it. The great thing about Eve is that there are so many things you can do. Individually though, they are only so much fun for so long. So, after doing some missions, try the market to sell off your stuff at the highest value. Try getting into manufacturing to produce your own ammo. Mine your own minerals for the ammo. Research blue prints to make specialty or tech 2 drones. Save your salvage from wrecks you blow up in missions to trick out your ship with custom made riggings. Get into exploration and covert ops to sneak into enemy territory and make some cash. The list goes on and on. You will only be limited by your skills. So in the beginning there will only be a small handful of things you will be able to do. These will grow as your progress and choose your skill sets.
Anyway, load up the trial and join a small corp to get you jumpstarted.
the crafting and trading is very very detailed/competitive/rewarding. It does need some research and some setting up, but long term, it suits casual, solo, gameplay well.
PvP can be done at any skill points, light fast expendable frigs are always welcome in gangs. There is faction warfare as well, which has deadspace complexes (dungeons) that limit the size ships that can enter.
High sec space is safe for noobs, unless they do something obviously stupid, like shoot at someone or take their stuff. There are players that do their best to get noobs to do that, they are astoundingly successful. But then that is just farming the foolish. You can be suicide ganked in High sec if you are carrying very good gear, basicly noobs shouldn't be carrying hundreds of millions of isk worth of goods, (reward point) so they don't actually get suicide ganked.
Is it still fun? yes it is. however, i have burnt out and taken breaks. I always come back. Trying some different approach or a different type of gameplay.
EVE's a challenging game, and no doubt you've seen the posts by those who failed to master it. But that shouldn't put you off from giving it a good try.
One word of advice, join a corp like EVE University right off the bat...will change the way you look at the game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Follow-up Q as you may have convinced me to join...
If anyone is familiar to SWG crafting, is it compariable to EvE? Example. You can name the weapons you create, tinker with stats before the final product you put out, etc. I've always a been a huge 'creative' person (Sims, Spore, SWG crafter, etc.) but no other MMO has supported that fancy.
The actual crafting side of eve is very basic in format, get X of Y items to make Item Z. The challange comes from aquisition of the materials for the best price and finding where you can sell your goods for the most profit.
I’m still a noob myself Koala, so here are a few things that might help you out getting started and avoid some of the pitfalls of a new player. If anything I say is of questionable value, the vets here can correct me.
You will find the very best and the very worst of people in Eve. There are some amazing players who will hang out in the help channels to answer questions and sometimes even help you along in missions if you are stuck, and there are true sociopaths who will do whatever they possibly can to grief you. You are relatively safe if you stay in high sec space, but do not touch anything that isn’t yours. If someone leaves a wreck with loot in it, leave it be. If you take what isn’t yours, the person you took it from will have kill rights on you and can safely attack, and they just might be there in a cloaked ship waiting for you to do just that. Sometimes they will leave cans in space and invite you to take something from it, and as soon as you do they will blow you up. You don’t see too much of this fortunately, but it does happen, and loosing a ship as a new player can be a financial hardship. If you don't take anything you shouldn't, you should have no problem with this.
When making your character, unless you have a clear idea of what you want to do, I feel that it’s best to keep your starting stats as balanced as possible, with the exception of charisma. Charisma is of limited value to most people, and most I know keep it as low as possible, which helps boost other stats.
As soon as you get into the game, do the tutorial. Do not skip it. The game is pretty complex, and the tutorial will help you on your way. On the left side menu in game, there is a channels and mailing lists tab, and in there you will find a help channel which you should join. Try your best to figure out problems as they come up, but if you’re stuck ask in that help channel, and you will usually get an answer. If you don’t get an answer right away, be patient, as these are also people trying to play the game as well, and they might be preoccupied when you asked.
One of the things new players look forward too is upgrading their ships. Resist the urge to jump into a bigger ship the moment you can. You want to make sure that you have the skills to fly the new ship properly, and it’s a good idea not to fly it until you already have enough money banked to replace it if you loose it. You will lose ships, that’s part of the game, and if you get your new cruiser blown up that you spent your last isk on and are now broke it’s pretty painful. Each faction has an excellent combat frigate or two, so train up to them (which you can do very quickly) and stick with them for a bit until you know what you are doing.
As far as training, you will want to train up your skills to be able to fly that frigate well, but as soon as possible, you also want to train up your learning skills. Your learning skills will help you train up other skills quicker, and they are a good investment.
After you finish the tutorial you will probably be wondering what to do, and while opinions will vary on this, I’m going to recommend that you run missions for at least a bit. Although fun for a little while, it can get boring quickly, but it will get you some money in your pocket and also help you learn how to pilot your ship. As you do missions for a Corporation you eventually get access to better agents and higher level missions that pay better, though until you get into a cruiser stick to level 1’s.
Lastly, spend a bit of time on the Eve forums. There are four sections I read frequently, Ships, Crime and Punishment, New Player Q&A, and the General forum. From Crime and Punishment you can learn a lot about avoiding trouble, and the others will give you information and ideas about what you want to do and where you want to go in Eve.
Hope this helps some Koala. My apologies if any of this is fragmented, as I’m typing at work between tasks.
As the above poster mentioned, it is rather basic in principal. However, the construction is only one part. In reality, the complexity is as deep as you would like to make it for yourself. Take the following as an example. It's completely made up with a module that probably will never make you rich, but you get the idea.
After listening to smack talk between BoB and Goonswarm - you discover that BoB has decided to camp outside of Goonswarm space and begin an invasion. As an industrialist, this is a perfect opportunity for you. After doing a bit of research to see what BoB battles were like in the past you noticed that a large portion of their fleet are made up of non-faction mod based battleships using T2 modules. Okay, now you know that their frieghter op brought in a lot of different ships and modules, but you know there is going to be a high demand for ship modules and replacement ships in this region. A demand that didn't exist before.
Luckily for you, your 425mm Railgun I blueprint is now finished being researched. With a material efficiency level of 20 (which is about 20% off the cost of materials) it will allow you to lower the price below your competition and make you some decent cash in the area. Of course, this research wasn't too easy. Since lab facilities are usually booked well into a 30 day waiting list recently, you had to take a trip into 0.2 low sec system. But hey, that's what the cloaking device is for. Too bad yours is ducked taped to the back of a rusty Executioner.
On the way back to local, you make a quick detour to speak to a couple of your R&D teams. You pick up a few dozen datacores of different varieties and toss them few tritanium for their efforts. Once back, you place the new blueprint into a copy facility to create a few copies to be used in advanced laboratory reseach (known as invention). Fast forward a day and now your throwing the dice and seeing what you get for your troubles. Damn... burned through a few of these blueprint copies but managed to get three of them upgraded to their tech two equivalent. You decide to put one up on the market and keep the other two for yourself.
After an hour of mining in local with a friend you have a sizable amount of ore in the station. You decide to have one of your corp mates to melt it down for you since she is both more knowledgable with refineries and the local station manager seems a bit sweet on her and doesn't take a cut of the referinery job. You hand some of the earnings over to your friend for helping out with the hauling and you are left with just enough for what you need.
You do a little market magic and trade some of your Isogen for a handful of morphite and several advanced compounds. After every growing cycle, you are beginning to grow envious at the nearby low sec station that another pod pilot set up. Every time you have the need to buy titanium carbide or hypersynaptic fibers manufactured there you think thoughts of grandure and day dream about owning a station of your own some day. Heh. We all know that when that day comes, your going to be pushing boosters up the noses of the Jita snot bags, but hey. That'll have to wait another day.
Now you have what you need to begin manufacturing. You plug in 2 of the T2 blueprint copies and even throw in the original T1 blueprint for good measure into the factories. After loading up the bay with the materials need and paying the station manager, your all set to go. Only 16 hours to go and you can grab these oversized potato launchers out of the pressure cooker.
Oooh, what's this? No competition in the local area. Looks like you got lucky and are the first to seed the market for BoB. They won't mind the 400% markup will they? Eh, f**k em. Last time you flew by EFA they included you with a quick introduction to your clone. But, your a business man and don't hold a grudge - instead you would rather hold their wallet.
Anyway, I hope this gives you an idea on how in depth manufacturing can be if you get into the nitty gritty of each step.
Based on your post, I would say you need to find 3 or 4 four other people that can commit to the same time schedule as you and then work as a team to accomplish goals. There will be parts of EVE that will probably always be beyond your abilities but you will have allot of fun and grow and mature as a player. If you can keep a group together there is no reason, in time, you can not be effective from hi-sec to 0.0 with as little as a couple of hours a week.
With that said, if you can really commit 1 to 2 hours every night you can be a fairly effective player, and yes hi-sec is more than moderately safe.
As for the amount of time it will take, you will have to train your learning skills, but other than that it's really not about time as much as it is learning what you need to do and making the money to do it. What I mean by that is, if you do it right, by the time you understand what you need to do and have the money to do it the skill will be trained.
Of course this will lead to some certain death in the beginning
This kinda breaks it down better than I can: noob PVP goals
as a crafter you make standard items. You can't label them with a trademark or modify their stats. This is a bit disappointing for sure. Occasionally there is a rumor that you will be able to leave a trade mark (made by such and such corporation) but it has only been a rumor.
T3 is looking like some additional versatility in ship design. due out next year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-DPqnifEIg
Once I get back from base today, I'll be down for the trial. Might as well try out for 2 weeks before jumping full sub. (Unless I hit that point in the trial where it's like.. you can't do X, then I'll cut my trial short and go full sub. heh.) A quick TY to you all, even the retired Squid Chief. I'm taking his cautions into account to. Like they tell you, "Not every mad man is a mad man." I'll jump in.. and see where it takes me. Ty all!
So.. doing some research @ work. (It takes awhile for the auto-compile to process a new PKI kernel...) Here's my idea. Tell me if I suck at life or if I'm on the right track.
Caldari - Achura as my Race. Then, train for Galantee Ships so I can use Drones... with Hybrid Turrents & Missles as back up DPS. I was looking Galantee as the race.. but.. the Cha I just don't need. (Unless you can decrease Abilities at conception?)
Feel free to look mne up in game I have no problem helping people out with information. Just as a suggestion when asking for help in EVE try to be as professional as possible and make sure the question is really good
Those that sub will know more, but the one thing I got out of the free trial was that this game is a major time sink...travel time is painfully long and nothing happens quickly.
Go Gallente if you want - you do get to adjust your character's stats during creation, and unlike most people I really don't suggest going Achura - someday CCP will release some non-leadership Charisma skills and all those 3 CHA Achura pilots will be crying. Hedge your bets and keep your stats even, maybe an extra point in Perception and Willpower. You can get up to +15 all stats via learnings and implants anyway. Personally I didn't know any better when I made my character so I got really high intellect and basic everything else, and I do just fine.
Also get Evemon and Eve Fitting Tool, they're both invaluable utilities, especially for a newer player.
If you do go Gallente, feel free to drop me an Eve Mail or look me up in game (Kessiaan is my main), I'll hook you up with a decent frig to get you started, I got a stack of Tristans I don't use anymore.
In reality, there are no wrong choices unless you plan on training skills and the abilities required to train those skills are abnormally low.
Here is what I suggest you do. Choose whatever you would like or even what looks cool to start out. Think of this as a temporary, throw away character. Don't care about any "mistakes" you make. Just learn from them. Complete the tutorial. Not only will it give you an idea of what to expect in PvE, but it will also give you a bit of starter cash as well. Take peoples advice and absorb as much information as you can, but remember with all free advice - what works for them may not always work for you. There is no "correct" way to play Eve. It's what ever you find that works for you.
After a week or towards the end of the trial, start thinking about what you want to do. What you think is most fun. Then download EveMon - which is an advanced skill management tool that you will learn to love. Not only can you map out an entire skill plan in it, but it will recommend which learning skills and when to train them during your plan to reduce the overall time needed to get from point A to point B.
When you know what you want, then I would suggest creating a character that is better suited to train the skills that are most time consuming in your plan. Each of the skills training time are affected by the abilities that your character starts out with. The only way to increase these ability points are either by learning skills and implants which both will only bring you so high.
Also, there is an ingame chat channels button. The chat system works simular to IRC, in which each of the rooms are called channels. The chat channels button will display some of the more common channels that are managed by CCP. I would recommend joining HELP and the Corporate Recruitment channels immediately after the tutorial. I think the tutorial even shows you where this button is.
Finally, be sure to send me a post card in game. The name is Tethraa KaiSuun. At the moment, I have been taking a break. I am one of those people that play both WoW for my PvE fix and Eve for my PvP and semi-crafting fix. But, I am logging in from time to time as I am training up my skills. Yeah, 4+ years and I am finally getting around to training up the last of my Capital Ship skills. Just goes to show you, everyone plays the game differently.
It's not a fast paced action game. It is definately more of a strategy game that involves preparation. As you gain skills and knowledge about the game, the time it takes you to do things drastically gets reduced.
Example of a new player that doesn't fully know all of the mechanics:
Your ship gets blown up. Crap! Now your racing around buying parts for another ship and oh my god. The prices that some of these people want. Damn... this really sucks! PvP is horrible! How do people expect me to PvP?
Example of an experienced player that knows the mechanics and has some decent skills:
Let's see, I need to go to here, here and then finally here to pick up all of the parts that I previously purchased for this ship type. Hrm... running low on my shield modules. Let's place a remote buy order at 40% below market value and someone will fill it within the next week. I still have enough for another ship in case this one dies, so not too shabby. Damn, look at those prices. Good thing I'm not paying them.
As time goes on - you will learn how to manage the most precious commodity in Eve. Your time.
That's why you will have to find a place with good infrastructure to settle down. Location is important in eve, travelling time makes distance cost money, which you will love because prices scale with distance, and stuff in a remote location can be sold at ssignificantly higher price.
One more quick Q. Office mate of mine may also pick it up. Heh. MMOs spread like wild fire in our office. How hard is it for say.. a Mimntaar (..or however you spell it) to get from their starting zone to say... a Caldarri starting zone? And... don't mind the spelling.. I'm a noob.
With the small starter ships - it should take about 20 minutes through high sec space. I would recommend that both of you do the tutorial in your starting area though.
Phascolarctos Tzu. Let the 14 days of Tyranny begin! (Did the Tutorial... I swear to god, if HAL had a wife, it'd be that tutorial.....)
Like this?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Eve is a Great game with a great Community... Just dont say anyything that will get you shot ;D
The offline training is one of the greatest things of all time. Just rember to do a little math in your head about training times. I Personaly put my learning skills on when i was going to sleep to get them outa the way then set my ship and gun skills to train while i was playing. And rember you almost Never need lvl 5 in anything Unless its to get the next skill.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
haha, wow - you were me a couple months ago. I played SWG, looked for about 4 months for a game to jump into and I loved crafting. I have a wife and son that come first so I have to be realistic about my commitment to a game too...
I finally after much pacing tried EvE and 2 days after starting I subbed for a year. I love this game and think it's perfect for a casual player. You can play alone, and just KNOW there are tens of thousands of people out there with you, or you can join a CORP and most are mature, smart and very helpful players.
It's a great game - without the pressure to play all the time since you progres while offline just as well as online.