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Mirror's Edge demonstrates a First Person Perspective ideal for MMORPGs
techlord
Member Posts: 220
I often see a lot of protest in the forum against using First Person Pespective in a MMORPG. I would agree that some game mechanics need tweaking to suit First Person, but, all can be used. Mirror's Edge demonstrates what I call `Full-bodied` First Person and this FP Implementation is better suited for MMORPGs versus the common Hands-Glued-To-Eyes technique.
Comments
Of course it would be nice in a MMORPG, but do you actually understand that this technoligy used in this SINGLE PLAYER game is miles ahead of what tech can do within a MMORPG, just to let you know Mirror Edge is actually the first single player game that has achieved that lvl, so expect MMORPG to be this way in perhaps 3/5 years from now.
Sorry I simply don't get it when people speak about a new released single player game and then feel it would fit nice into a MMORPG without knowing that the type of tech used in a single player game is so far ahead from that of a MMORPG.
I would say let gamecompany's into MMORPG first perfect what they have, and since that seems to be still very hard I honostly don't want them to try and innovate things in this genre if they keep proven that they do not even master the tech availeble for MMORPG's.
This has nothing to do with SP vs MMO or FPS vs RPG. The point was if your gonna do FP in a MMORPG, the techniques in this game would be better suited for it and perhaps gain interest from those who arent fans of the perspective due to lack of visualizing their characters.
If your not aware of it, all 3D games use a camera which by all technical accounts is First Person, the Perspective is merely a angle players view the game with that camera statically or dynamically.
I agree that the typical First Person view doesn't always work in an MMORPG. For example, sometimes you need to see your feet, to know if you're on an edge, and how far you can go without falling off, but in first person view, as you said, your eyes are glued to your hands.
Also, without going to third person view, sometimes you can't see mobs that are to short, or above you on stairs, behind you, and so forth. You're being attacked, and you're like where the hell is that coming from? Oh, it's biting my ankle, or up on that rock above my eye level.
But I also agree that it's unlikely the tech is there to replicate Mirror's Edge in an MMORPG any time soon.
the realism would all dry up when the other players all looked like crap because there would be no way to really render them fast enough using that engine (versus 2000 players on a server or even 25 players on your screen).
it just seems like a horrible idea. really the game itself is pretty tedious..yea it looks great, but so do great works of art...and they bore me after a few seconds too.
This has nothing to do with SP vs MMO or FPS vs RPG. The point was if your gonna do FP in a MMORPG, the techniques in this game would be better suited for it and perhaps gain interest from those who arent fans of the perspective due to lack of visualizing their characters.
If your not aware of it, all 3D games use a camera which by all technical accounts is First Person, the Perspective is merely a angle players view the game with that camera statically or dynamically.
There was no VS in my reply, first read before reply to me please.
Futher more you seem not to be aware that this type of tech has just been perfected with this one game ME, so either you are new to games in general, or like most you seem to have very unrealistic expectations of what is possible within this genre.
Like I said I would love to see such feature, shame technoligy is not able to create something like tthat yet in a genre like MMORPG. In time I am sure it can be done, just not now.....sorry.
I hated the first person view from Mirrors Edge, they really should have used 3rd person view to see the actual stunts.
TES series, Gothic series and Dark Messiah of Might and Magic proved that a long, long time ago.
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
First person is good for FPS games, it really does not work in a MMO. People want to see that they are wearing, can't do that with a first person perspective, hence it's unpopularity. So trying to promote a game that uses it is an exercise in futility.
No!
I prefer to be able to see whats behind my back at all times and I also want to be able to see my feet when I'm walking up or down stairs and close to ledges to avoid falling down and die.
I think that Mirror's Edge actually would be a better game with a over-the-shoulder view.
This has nothing to do with SP vs MMO or FPS vs RPG. The point was if your gonna do FP in a MMORPG, the techniques in this game would be better suited for it and perhaps gain interest from those who arent fans of the perspective due to lack of visualizing their characters.
If your not aware of it, all 3D games use a camera which by all technical accounts is First Person, the Perspective is merely a angle players view the game with that camera statically or dynamically.
There was no VS in my reply, first read before reply to me please.
Futher more you seem not to be aware that this type of tech has just been perfected with this one game ME, so either you are new to games in general, or like most you seem to have very unrealistic expectations of what is possible within this genre.
Like I said I would love to see such feature, shame technoligy is not able to create something like tthat yet in a genre like MMORPG. In time I am sure it can be done, just not now.....sorry.
LOL. Totally My Bad. I just realized I posted in the wrong forum. This was meant for the Developers Corner, where there are few discussions on FP vs 3P. I'm currently developing a MMORPG using the First Person and I'm addressing issues such as not being able to visualize your character that make the perspective unpopular in MMOs. Mirror's Edge trailers do provide a decent pre-viz of `Full-Bodied` First Person (minus it's Runner Vision Game Mechanics) that I've proposed in other post on the debate. Although the primary view in my MMO is First Person, 3rd-Person and other camera angles can easily be added following FP optimizations.
I think that is part of his whole point on how mirrors edge style FP view is what should be in MMOs. The part where you can look down and see your body. It is in a some MMOs now. Even in Wurm online you can see your whole body (or the shitty excuse for one) when you look down.
This has nothing to do with SP vs MMO or FPS vs RPG. The point was if your gonna do FP in a MMORPG, the techniques in this game would be better suited for it and perhaps gain interest from those who arent fans of the perspective due to lack of visualizing their characters.
If your not aware of it, all 3D games use a camera which by all technical accounts is First Person, the Perspective is merely a angle players view the game with that camera statically or dynamically.
There was no VS in my reply, first read before reply to me please.
Futher more you seem not to be aware that this type of tech has just been perfected with this one game ME, so either you are new to games in general, or like most you seem to have very unrealistic expectations of what is possible within this genre.
Like I said I would love to see such feature, shame technoligy is not able to create something like tthat yet in a genre like MMORPG. In time I am sure it can be done, just not now.....sorry.
LOL. Totally My Bad. I just realized I posted in the wrong forum. This was meant for the Developers Corner, where there are few discussions on FP vs 3P. I'm currently developing a MMORPG using the First Person and I'm addressing issues such as not being able to visualize your character that make the perspective unpopular in MMOs. Mirror's Edge trailers do provide a decent pre-viz of `Full-Bodied` First Person (minus it's Runner Vision Game Mechanics) that I've proposed in other post on the debate. Although the primary view in my MMO is First Person, 3rd-Person and other camera angles can easily be added following FP optimizations.
No problem, I was a bit harsh myself to wards you so sorry about that, but like I said would love to see such a make in a MMORPG, but really thinking it can not yet be achieved at the lvl we see it's done with ME due to so many tech. restrictions, like the amount of people ingame/onscreen/servercapacity etc...etc..
But I would LOVE to see you proof me wrong and wish you the best of luck and hope you CAN achieve it cause I truly hate the way most MMORPG have done FP view which is nothing more then full screen without any limbs or weapons insight.
I want to look down at the ground in a MMORPG and see my body and my feet standing on the ground and not be invisible anymore 
But this goes for plenty of more genre's in gaming that lack realistic FP view, so not only MMORPG's
No thank you. I like to be able to see my character and what is around him. I love first person view for some shooters, but not for mmo's. I also like to see my character to see what he is wearing and in general admire his awesomeness.
Perhaps one day when we have virtual reality, first person view can be implemented more realistically and then I will change my mind. Probably not though. Seeing my character helps keep me in character.
This has nothing to do with SP vs MMO or FPS vs RPG. The point was if your gonna do FP in a MMORPG, the techniques in this game would be better suited for it and perhaps gain interest from those who arent fans of the perspective due to lack of visualizing their characters.
If your not aware of it, all 3D games use a camera which by all technical accounts is First Person, the Perspective is merely a angle players view the game with that camera statically or dynamically.
There was no VS in my reply, first read before reply to me please.
Futher more you seem not to be aware that this type of tech has just been perfected with this one game ME, so either you are new to games in general, or like most you seem to have very unrealistic expectations of what is possible within this genre.
Like I said I would love to see such feature, shame technoligy is not able to create something like tthat yet in a genre like MMORPG. In time I am sure it can be done, just not now.....sorry.
I don't understand your meaning, Reklaw. The genre of a video game has nothing to do with the technology available to the graphics programmers last time I checked.
Since we know it can be done in one game, it can most definately be done in any other.
The real problem is on the business side, not the technological side. Developing a game capable of delivering such an immersive first-person experience plus all the mounds of content that MMO gamers have come to expect might not be financially or logistically feasible.
The unknown in this equation is the amount of budget / time resources that went into producing Mirror Edge's first person experience.
Having played the game, I would tend to think that this one aspect required a majority of the team's attention. The platforming was frustrating (I would have liked a rear-view mirror at the least), and the overall experience left much to be desired.
I played first person in Everquest for 5 years
the game did support other angles but first person was the "default"
I guess it varies by game because typically I prefer 3rd person with the exception of Everquest
EQ2 fan sites
im looking forward for a current 3rd person technology mmo more but with 100% real-time combat like dynasty warriors.
There is a lot of people who cant play first person without getting sick.
Also first person is actually less immersive then 3rd person since the 3rd person view better reflect the overall sensory information you get in real life if you moved outside once in a while.
Seing your toons body move in an enviroment give you the sense information of your body, the greater angle of vision is closer to real life than the tunnel vision of 1st person games and sensing a meter or two behind you fits very well with how an alert person can sense small sounds, echoes of his own movement from objects and the movement of air on your skin caused by something moving behind you.
What is unrealistic is mouselook independent of your movement, but the 3rd person view itself if the view point is no more than 2-3 m behind your toon is fare more immersive and realistic than 1st person.
"You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."
Technology limitations really don't have anything to do with it. MMORPGs use the same assets and pipelines as any other genre.
The difference is that single-player games, such as Crysis and Dead Space, are designed to keep a single person entertained for 10-30 hours (2-5 days in casual play). MMORPGs are designed to keep 1000+ people entertained simultaneously for an indefinite amount of time (100+ days in casual play).
Budget resources are allocated towards developing quest content, multiple story lines / plots / settings, etc. Basically things that will keep players playing for a longer period of time. Graphical polish is not high on the list of factors that keep people playing, and so pouring a lot of finances into the visuals would be poor resource management (and investors and stock holders do not appreciate this).
Technology limitations really don't have anything to do with it. MMORPGs use the same assets and pipelines as any other genre.
The difference is that single-player games, such as Crysis and Dead Space, are designed to keep a single person entertained for 10-30 hours (2-5 days in casual play). MMORPGs are designed to keep 1000+ people entertained simultaneously for an indefinite amount of time (100+ days in casual play). Yeah and that does NOT require the use a much more tech?
Budget resources are allocated towards developing quest content, multiple story lines / plots / settings, etc. Basically things that will keep players playing for a longer period of time. Graphical polish is not high on the list of factors that keep people playing, and so pouring a lot of finances into the visuals would be poor resource management (and investors and stock holders do not appreciate this).
Technology limitations really don't have anything to do with it. MMORPGs use the same assets and pipelines as any other genre.
The difference is that single-player games, such as Crysis and Dead Space, are designed to keep a single person entertained for 10-30 hours (2-5 days in casual play). MMORPGs are designed to keep 1000+ people entertained simultaneously for an indefinite amount of time (100+ days in casual play). Yeah and that does NOT require the use a much more tech?
Budget resources are allocated towards developing quest content, multiple story lines / plots / settings, etc. Basically things that will keep players playing for a longer period of time. Graphical polish is not high on the list of factors that keep people playing, and so pouring a lot of finances into the visuals would be poor resource management (and investors and stock holders do not appreciate this).
You don't seem to understand anything about how games are made. That requires more money and more time on the game. It also requires people to have better systems so the game would not be able to be played by a large amount of people.
They could have great graphics in a MMO if they wanted to, its just about money.
Thanks for almost spilling some coffee over the keyboard, this really made me laugh. Again thank you
Funny thing is I never said it NOT about money or time, only thing I mentioned is the most important factor which is technology, one day you guy's might understand this, as of course it's only logical that money/time is involved.
Thanks for almost spilling some coffee over the keyboard, this really made me laugh. Again thank you
Funny thing is I never said it NOT about money or time, only thing I mentioned is the most important factor which is technology, one day you guy's might understand this, as of course it's only logical that money/time is involved.
Please then, explain how MMOs and single player games use different technology.
heres one overview of the history of online games
- technology plays an essential role
www.skotos.net/articles/BTH_17.shtml
single player games do not have to be concerned with linking to other computers
EQ2 fan sites
that would be an ideal mmo for me. MO is going for a always FPV where you can look down and see your feet. also mirrors edge's graphics are cell shaded but realistic, ideal for MMO's where graphics need to be toned down.
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