How easily do you all forget Ultma Online pre-trammel the MOTHER of all modern MMORPGS(I take it most of you are too young to have ever even played it ovbviously). There are thousands of people to this very day(over 10 years later) who would still be playing UO even in 2D graphics. Those "free shards" out there are an embarassment and do not count. A game like UO is on a whole other level on its own and cannot be considered just an "mmorpg". UO was unlike any other game we have seen to this day. Darkfall is the ONLY game after 10 years that is poised to be its spiritual successor. There is a reason why DarkFall's community is one of the most passionate communities online.
Most of you simply just don't "get it". It's easy for you to sit there and refer to a game as a "sandbox" just because the only ones you've played are a perversion of UO such as SWG, EVE ect... If you have not played UO pre trammel then you simply don't know crap about what a game like that has to offer. To jumble UO together with SWG and EVE as just another "sandbox" is an insult.
But don't bother playing UO today. Ultima Online is like the Michael Jackson of the gaming world... a king back in it's day, but after all the changes it's been through, it is one scary mofo to look at.
If Blizzard is going to create another MMORPG run of the mill "sandbox" similar to EVE or SWG then whatever. I'm sure they will make it "successful" because after all you can literally get people to eat GARBAGE(mcdonalds, pepsi, ciggarrets, krispy kremes) with the properly funded marketing campaign. WoW is currently the bane of any self respecting MMORPG veteran because it doesn't require a brain. If Blizzard plans to actually recruit anyone that's not a noob to MMORPGs then they really need to study what exactly made UO successful back in the day and why people are still passionate about it til this day(NO it is not because it was one of the first mmorpgs around). Blizzard also needs to sit down and actually read and research one of the most active and passionate gaming communities online at www.DarkfallOnline.com. Blizzard ALSO MUST hire people in a team that have actually played UO pre trammel because that is the ONLY way that they will create a successful "sandbox". It's just experience on your resume you MUST have in order to understand what you're getting into. The Darkfall devs have actually played it and it's been VERY obvious to veterans. This is a large part of the reason why they've been receiving the enormous attention that they're getting.
UO pre trammel and Darkfall aren't just "games", "mmorpgs" or "sandboxes", they are World Simulators - a huge difference.
I always laugh when people say "EVE" is a sandbox. Seriously, you can't even leave your cockpit chair in Eve... while Wow let's you create your own helicopters )) I am sure Blizzard will make a GOOD fresh new mmo somewhere within 3 years. Because it is Blizzard. Far more important than a hyped definition.
You clearly have no clue what a sandbox is appearently.
EVE Online is very much a sandbox! That your avatar is a ship doesn't make it otherwise! And next year in june you will even be able to set foot in a space station outside your ship.
The reason WOW is so successful is not because its a theme park game. The reason is that they had the resources to make a theme park game correctlly. The reason sandbox games haven't succeeded so far is because it has been small companies without the proper resources trying to make them. The sandbox crowd is different than the themepark crowd, so they won't be stealing their own customers. They will be creating millions of new customers.
The most common step, in my opinion will be World of Starcraft (WoS from now on ) Only because World of diablo would be almost like WoW. Maybe they will develop it once WoW start loosing customers. In my opinion, the most probably choice would be a WoS theme park, just cose they already know or they hope it will work like WoW did. In fact I doubt they really know how the hell WoW got so much customers.
The reason WOW is so successful is not because its a theme park game. The reason is that they had the resources to make a theme park game correctlly. The reason sandbox games haven't succeeded so far is because it has been small companies without the proper resources trying to make them. The sandbox crowd is different than the themepark crowd, so they won't be stealing their own customers. They will be creating millions of new customers.
So you think when blizzard start creating a sandbox again millions of new players gonne play that?
You know what sandbox is right?
Its hardcore and hardcore will always be nich, unless they want to make a sandbox game for small comunity?
If they wanne make alot of money out of it and millions gonne play it they have to implement themepark featers in it or it will stay nich but then its no sandbox anymore:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I always laugh when people say "EVE" is a sandbox. Seriously, you can't even leave your cockpit chair in Eve... while Wow let's you create your own helicopters )) I am sure Blizzard will make a GOOD fresh new mmo somewhere within 3 years. Because it is Blizzard. Far more important than a hyped definition.
You clearly have no clue what a sandbox is appearently.
EVE Online is very much a sandbox! That your avatar is a ship doesn't make it otherwise! And next year in june you will even be able to set foot in a space station outside your ship.
Cheers
EVE is a sandbox to you. But not to me. Everyone has his own definitions and no one has the truth about it.
Have fun in it while it last, because the next big MMO from Blizzard will be SF - done right this time and it's about time.
Lol a blizzard fanboi thinks he knows it all you guys keep amaze me with lack of understanding what sandbox is think even what a themepark is:P
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
The reason WOW is so successful is not because its a theme park game. The reason is that they had the resources to make a theme park game correctlly. The reason sandbox games haven't succeeded so far is because it has been small companies without the proper resources trying to make them. The sandbox crowd is different than the themepark crowd, so they won't be stealing their own customers. They will be creating millions of new customers.
So you think when blizzard start creating a sandbox again millions of new players gonne play that?
You know what sandbox is right?
Its hardcore and hardcore will always be nich, unless they want to make a sandbox game for small comunity?
If they wanne make alot of money out of it and millions gonne play it they have to implement themepark featers in it or it will stay nich but then its no sandbox anymore:)
Believe me, Sandbox is NOT only for the hardcore. You sir fail at knowing the mmorpg, and I guess knowing the gaming community as a whole. Please, know your player base before posting. fgt
How easily do you all forget Ultma Online pre-trammel the MOTHER of all modern MMORPGS(I take it most of you are too young to have ever even played it ovbviously). There are thousands of people to this very day(over 10 years later) who would still be playing UO even in 2D graphics. Those "free shards" out there are an embarassment and do not count. A game like UO is on a whole other level on its own and cannot be considered just an "mmorpg". UO was unlike any other game we have seen to this day. Darkfall is the ONLY game after 10 years that is poised to be its spiritual successor. There is a reason why DarkFall's community is one of the most passionate communities online.
Most of you simply just don't "get it". It's easy for you to sit there and refer to a game as a "sandbox" just because the only ones you've played are a perversion of UO such as SWG, EVE ect... If you have not played UO pre trammel then you simply don't know crap about what a game like that has to offer. To jumble UO together with SWG and EVE as just another "sandbox" is an insult.
But don't bother playing UO today. Ultima Online is like the Michael Jackson of the gaming world... a king back in it's day, but after all the changes it's been through, it is one scary mofo to look at.
If Blizzard is going to create another MMORPG run of the mill "sandbox" similar to EVE or SWG then whatever. I'm sure they will make it "successful" because after all you can literally get people to eat GARBAGE(mcdonalds, pepsi, ciggarrets, krispy kremes) with the properly funded marketing campaign. WoW is currently the bane of any self respecting MMORPG veteran because it doesn't require a brain. If Blizzard plans to actually recruit anyone that's not a noob to MMORPGs then they really need to study what exactly made UO successful back in the day and why people are still passionate about it til this day(NO it is not because it was one of the first mmorpgs around). Blizzard also needs to sit down and actually read and research one of the most active and passionate gaming communities online at www.DarkfallOnline.com. Blizzard ALSO MUST hire people in a team that have actually played UO pre trammel because that is the ONLY way that they will create a successful "sandbox". It's just experience on your resume you MUST have in order to understand what you're getting into. The Darkfall devs have actually played it and it's been VERY obvious to veterans. This is a large part of the reason why they've been receiving the enormous attention that they're getting.
UO pre trammel and Darkfall aren't just "games", "mmorpgs" or "sandboxes", they are World Simulators - a huge difference.
Could not of said that better myself, having been there done that and I feel like you do about DF giving us a glimmer of light, I have tried every game hoping it would at the very least come close to UO P/Trammel but have been let down so often and wonder from MMO to MMO like a cold zombie in search of life...
Thought Blizzard said there won' be a new mmo from them in a long time. Thing is, they set their own bar so high a new mmo from them will be a massive undertaking and none of the people working at Blizzard is looking forward to that. Atleast that's what they say in interviews. They will focus on single/multiplayer games for a while and let WoW just run on it's own success, so to speak.
If Blizzard ever make a new mmo, it won't be sandbox, that's for sure. Sandbox games offer too much freedom and intrigue only the hardcore crowd. Blizzard excel at making themepark games, aka holding your hand and not allowing much deviation from the set path. Obviously that is what sell nowadays, not sandbox themed mmo's. Even nowadays, what is considered sandbox games, don't draw the huge crowds. Not cause they are bad games but because most people just don't like that playstyle.
The reason WOW is so successful is not because its a theme park game. The reason is that they had the resources to make a theme park game correctlly. The reason sandbox games haven't succeeded so far is because it has been small companies without the proper resources trying to make them. The sandbox crowd is different than the themepark crowd, so they won't be stealing their own customers. They will be creating millions of new customers.
Do you have any proof or is this just a guess?
Sure you could make a good mainstream sandbox game but I'm not sure Blizz could pull it off. In Wow they took features from other games and polished them. Not so easy to do that with SB games since we only seen a few of these, which means they would have to make all the features themselves.
Yeah, Blizzard have made really creative new thinking games like Diablo (not Diablo 2, new thinking games are not follow ups) and Warcraft. Now however Wow is the only game that is not a follow up Blizzard have made since '96. And many of the best people have quited Blizz since then.
The question is if Blizz can and dare to make a totaly new game now? No I think they are making Wow2 or possibly using Wow to make another "World of..." Probably Starcraft or Diablo.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blizzard_Entertainment Just look on the statistic, Blizz are making more and more sequels, not counting wow which are already using a well known world we havn't seen them do much of anything for 12 years. To me it looks like they are going EA, to big to actually dare doing any new thinking games anymore.
There was a time when EA made great games too, now they are just making crappy sequels. While Blizzard might not be there, they do seems to focus on sequels and they have grown very big. If they not starting to show that they can make new creative games soon they will turn into what EA has become.
I always laugh when people say "EVE" is a sandbox. Seriously, you can't even leave your cockpit chair in Eve... while Wow let's you create your own helicopters )) I am sure Blizzard will make a GOOD fresh new mmo somewhere within 3 years. Because it is Blizzard. Far more important than a hyped definition.
You clearly have no clue what a sandbox is appearently.
EVE Online is very much a sandbox! That your avatar is a ship doesn't make it otherwise! And next year in june you will even be able to set foot in a space station outside your ship.
Cheers
EVE is a sandbox to you. But not to me. Everyone has his own definitions and no one has the truth about it.
Have fun in it while it last, because the next big MMO from Blizzard will be SF - done right this time and it's about time.
Well you proved my point. You clearly do not have a clue what a sandbox is.
Nothing further to say.
And for the record. I haven't played EVE Online for a long time anymore. So troll harder.
Thought Blizzard said there won' be a new mmo from them in a long time. Thing is, they set their own bar so high a new mmo from them will be a massive undertaking and none of the people working at Blizzard is looking forward to that. Atleast that's what they say in interviews. They will focus on single/multiplayer games for a while and let WoW just run on itæs own success, so to speak. If Blizzard ever make a new mmo, it won't be sandbox, that's for sure. Sandbox games offer too much freedom and intrigue only the hardcore crowd. Blizzard excel at making themepark games, aka holding your hand and not allowing much deviation from the set path. Obviously that is what sell nowadays, not sandbox themed mmo's. Even nowadays, what is considered sandbox games, don't draw the huge crowds. Not cause they are bad games but because most people just don't like that playstyle.
They stated a year or so back that they were developing an MMO based on a new IP, but that's all we know.
As I stated in a previous post, I can pretty much guarantee it won't be anything like WoW, although they will use the knowledge they have learned to make sure it is technically up to scratch. Whether that it is sanbox or something completely different, noone knows.
It not gonna happen , new Blizzard MMO will be even more themepark than current one is at this moment , reason is simple MONEY , they wont loose their current playerbase and most of it don't want sandbox game , they want another superbpolished pve grinder with Player vs Pillar options.
Most funny thing is for most of current WoW playerbase , WoW was first ever MMO , they compare evry new mmo on market to it and if this is not WoW-alike-polished-or-whatevere they dont wanna play it , so there is risk for Blizzard their new MMO can fail also because current playerbase wan't another WoW-alike game.
I always laugh when people say "EVE" is a sandbox. Seriously, you can't even leave your cockpit chair in Eve... while Wow let's you create your own helicopters )) I am sure Blizzard will make a GOOD fresh new mmo somewhere within 3 years. Because it is Blizzard. Far more important than a hyped definition.
They've never made a good fresh game in their entire time making games....
WoW was not new, or fresh. In fact, I think its the ONLY MMO I've ever heard of that didn't bring one single unique features to the table when it came out. It STILL hasn't 4 years later with 100 devs working on it. Epic fail.
Read a little more about the mmo rumours. Apparently it will be some 'innovative' thing not related to WoW or it's gameplay at all. As usual, Blizzard is tight-lipped about the whole thing and the knowhows of the industry doubt this thing will see the light of day for quite a while. The rumours state development is began inhouse at Blizzard though.
Oh, and about the sandbox thing. To make an easier comparison, Fallout3 is sandbox, while Baldurs Gate is themepark. Sandbox games is all about the freedom to go anywhere, do anything. Themepark games force you down a pre-determined path. Google it up for yourself if you don't believe me, or the other guys in this thread saying the same thing.
I always laugh when people say "EVE" is a sandbox. Seriously, you can't even leave your cockpit chair in Eve... while Wow let's you create your own helicopters )) I am sure Blizzard will make a GOOD fresh new mmo somewhere within 3 years. Because it is Blizzard. Far more important than a hyped definition.
They've never made a good fresh game in their entire time making games....
WoW was not new, or fresh. In fact, I think its the ONLY MMO I've ever heard of that didn't bring one single unique features to the table when it came out. It STILL hasn't 4 years later with 100 devs working on it. Epic fail.
nah because they know better. It's preferred to perfect whats already good rather than invent something new and blizzards got that down to a science. Quit the hating man WoW's number 1 for a reason.
I always laugh when people say "EVE" is a sandbox. Seriously, you can't even leave your cockpit chair in Eve... while Wow let's you create your own helicopters )) I am sure Blizzard will make a GOOD fresh new mmo somewhere within 3 years. Because it is Blizzard. Far more important than a hyped definition.
They've never made a good fresh game in their entire time making games....
WoW was not new, or fresh. In fact, I think its the ONLY MMO I've ever heard of that didn't bring one single unique features to the table when it came out. It STILL hasn't 4 years later with 100 devs working on it. Epic fail.
nah because they know better. It's preferred to perfect whats already good rather than invent something new and blizzards got that down to a science. Quit the hating man WoW's number 1 for a reason.
They didn't "perfect" anything. They took what others had created and spent years perfecting, and then simplified it as much as possible to the point where a 3 year old could play the game. Then, they marketed it to people who DON'T play games. And those of us that do, are left screwed out of a genre dominated by WoW clones that cater to said 3 year olds.
I always laugh when people say "EVE" is a sandbox. Seriously, you can't even leave your cockpit chair in Eve... while Wow let's you create your own helicopters )) I am sure Blizzard will make a GOOD fresh new mmo somewhere within 3 years. Because it is Blizzard. Far more important than a hyped definition.
They've never made a good fresh game in their entire time making games....
WoW was not new, or fresh. In fact, I think its the ONLY MMO I've ever heard of that didn't bring one single unique features to the table when it came out. It STILL hasn't 4 years later with 100 devs working on it. Epic fail.
It did one thing unique to mmorpgs upon it's release: It did everything right.
Why would gamers from stat wars galaxies; shadowbane; everquest; Daoc, and many more flock to this game. Because upon release, it did everything right'; except calculate how many players would love their game: gg blizz.
I always laugh when people say "EVE" is a sandbox. Seriously, you can't even leave your cockpit chair in Eve... while Wow let's you create your own helicopters )) I am sure Blizzard will make a GOOD fresh new mmo somewhere within 3 years. Because it is Blizzard. Far more important than a hyped definition.
They've never made a good fresh game in their entire time making games....
WoW was not new, or fresh. In fact, I think its the ONLY MMO I've ever heard of that didn't bring one single unique features to the table when it came out. It STILL hasn't 4 years later with 100 devs working on it. Epic fail.
It did one thing unique to mmorpgs upon it's release: It did everything right.
Why would gamers from stat wars galaxies; shadowbane; everquest; Daoc, and many more flock to this game. Because upon release, it did everything right'; except calculate how many players would love their game: gg blizz.
They, didn't? I was playing DAoC at the time. People went through, had a blast leveling to 60, stopped around 40, and came back after the "new feel" wore off. The only people playing WoW now, are noobs who got sucked into the market through clever adds and the simplicity of the game, and the original MMO players that are bored to tears waiting for something new to come out.
WoW had a lot of things going for it when it was new...
People were tired of EQ, and SoE split their current customer base by creating EQ2, and a lot of the people who would have gone to EQ2 ended up in WoW instead, as classic WoW was a better EQ2 than EQ2 was at at the time. This is no longer true, but it was one of the things that helped WoW get off the ground in a big way. Blizzard already had a huge online gaming community via battle.net. Pretty much every Diablo II player at least tried WoW Blizzard already had a huge presence in Korea, which gave them a big advantage in Asia. At launch, WoW was almost unarguably better than directly competing MMO in every measurable way. It was just better. (again, no longer the case depending on what your interests are) All the $$$ they had coming in let them aggressivly market the game. That, along with it's already huge sub numbers, gave it a measure of mainstream success. It's not as dorky to play an MMO your friends have heard of elsewhere.
As of right now though, I believe WoW runs almost entirely on noobs - the game lost a lot of veteran players after TBC, and by the time I finally quit about halfway through TBC it was very hard to find anyone still around who'd been playing since launch, or anytime up until a few months (at the earliest) before TBC came out. Not that that's bad - WoW is doing a better job than any other MMO right now to bring people into the genre - a good chunk of the players of virtually every other MMO are ex-WoW players.
WoW is the reason why most people dont know how to play MMO's anymore. Most of the time people who started playing WoW as their first mmo gotten so dumbed down that when they move to a different and new MMO they dont know what the hell they are doing anymore. No offence to anyone I was just generalizing, but I met a lot of people like this and it bothers me a lot.
I always laugh when people say "EVE" is a sandbox. Seriously, you can't even leave your cockpit chair in Eve... while Wow let's you create your own helicopters )) I am sure Blizzard will make a GOOD fresh new mmo somewhere within 3 years. Because it is Blizzard. Far more important than a hyped definition.
They've never made a good fresh game in their entire time making games....
WoW was not new, or fresh. In fact, I think its the ONLY MMO I've ever heard of that didn't bring one single unique features to the table when it came out. It STILL hasn't 4 years later with 100 devs working on it. Epic fail.
It did one thing unique to mmorpgs upon it's release: It did everything right.
Why would gamers from stat wars galaxies; shadowbane; everquest; Daoc, and many more flock to this game. Because upon release, it did everything right'; except calculate how many players would love their game: gg blizz.
They, didn't? I was playing DAoC at the time. People went through, had a blast leveling to 60, stopped around 40, and came back after the "new feel" wore off. The only people playing WoW now, are noobs who got sucked into the market through clever adds and the simplicity of the game, and the original MMO players that are bored to tears waiting for something new to come out.
This is true. WOW is the only MMO I continued to play while disliking many of its features immensely. I payed Blizz my money, I played their game, and I griped the entire time; I really dislike their in-game humor, mindless quests, and blending of steampunk and modernity in with fantasy.
Why did I play? Because the game is well-polished and where most of the players are. I am one of those "original MMO players...bored to tears waiting for something new to come out."
But, if I had to do it over again, I'd have stuck with Dark Age of Camelot; one of the best MMO"s every designed. in fact, I am comtemplating re-subbing, even though I know it's a dying game.
Who knows what Blizzards next mmo will be but I sure would love to see them do a sandbox style mmo.
I really doubt Blizzard will ever do a sandbox mmo why change i formula who have worked so well so far?
To beat the competition to the punch. It would be brilliant. Blizzard releases the first polished sandbox game. They will corner the market on that style of game play, just like they did with WoW and the themepark game.
Other companies will release buggy junky sandboxes, people will try them, and go back to the Blizzard sandbox. Genius.
Blizzard only works with systems that have been proven to sell. That said though, I wouldn't doubt that thier next MMO will be a dumbed down somewhat cartoony version of Eve packaged as Starcraft Online.
Read a little more about the mmo rumours. Apparently it will be some 'innovative' thing not related to WoW or it's gameplay at all. As usual, Blizzard is tight-lipped about the whole thing and the knowhows of the industry doubt this thing will see the light of day for quite a while. The rumours state development is began inhouse at Blizzard though. Oh, and about the sandbox thing. To make an easier comparison, Fallout3 is sandbox, while Baldurs Gate is themepark. Sandbox games is all about the freedom to go anywhere, do anything. Themepark games force you down a pre-determined path. Google it up for yourself if you don't believe me, or the other guys in this thread saying the same thing.
Sorry to prove you wrong.
But in this definition of your "sandbox" every MMORPG in its end game is a sandbox.
Perhaps Wow even the biggest because the end game choices are even more free and wider than in a lot of other MMORPG's. (Arena, Bg's, open world PvP zones, PVE heroics, daily professions, Raids, AH trading, fishing competitions, e-sports with real price money).
So it is further proof everyone defines HIS definition of a sandbox. Even EVE is a sandbox to some, a game where your avatar can't even leave his cockpit chair, while helicopters can be made as flying mounts in Wow.
As long as everyone invents his/her definitions of a sandbox, it's useless to discuss the matter. And no Wow is not a version of Baldur's Gate online. Apparently you never played it past the leveling system.
Well, I'm doubly sorry to say you seem to misunderstand what sandbox gameplay really is. WoW ain't a sandbox game. Can you go anywhere you want in WoW? Nope, you are handheld through each zone via quests and if you so much as dare to show your face in one of the highbie zones your aggrorange will be a freaking mile wide and you'll pull half the zone that will kill you faster than you can say eep.
Endgame choices got nothing to do with sandbox or not. Either the whole game is sandbox, or it isn't. Even at endgame certain zones are closed off to you ie you can't go directly to the topraid and kill the boss without having cleared the previous raids and gotten the gear they give. Eve is more sandboxy than WoW though but even there you need to follow a set route and train certain skills before you can fly around in 0,0 space therefore making it a sandbox game at it's core.
In other words, sandbox play enable you to ignore the usual route and go anywhere you want, to do anything you want. WoW doesn't allow this and since it doesn't, it's a themepark game.
Check this definition for sandbox from Wikipedia. While Wikipedia is a questionable source they are right about this one.
Edit: Saw Freelancer mentioned in that article. Now, if Eve had Freelancers combat model it would be the perfect mmo for me
The reason WOW is so successful is not because its a theme park game. The reason is that they had the resources to make a theme park game correctlly. The reason sandbox games haven't succeeded so far is because it has been small companies without the proper resources trying to make them. The sandbox crowd is different than the themepark crowd, so they won't be stealing their own customers. They will be creating millions of new customers.
Umm WRONG ! WOW as you know it ALREADY existed and still exists ,it is called EVERQUEST.Wow stole the majority of MMORPG gamers when the market was just booming,now the game continues to grow off itself and it's name.It has nothing to do with making of the game or doing it right.As a matter of fact MANY gamers scoffed at the idea of returning to get your SHARD in EQ2,yet in WOW they adopted the exact same idea and yet nobody cares.So it is real obvious it is not about the game at all,it is about marketing/hype and now the sheer size of WOW intrigues people.The size really should not matter because you will stil lhave the normal 5-10k players per server,wow just happens to have more servers.
The simple fact is 99% of the WOW base NEVER played a free trial,they were going to play the game no matter what,because they see it is big in the news and has the most players and there buddies or friends or class mates are playing it.I would also bet 90% of the WOW base originally never played many other BIG games,to know others even existed,they most likely came from xbox or playstation console gaming.For many it was there FIRST MMORPG,so obviously they have a spot for it even to this day.
Most of the original EQ crowd were already around gaming online for quite some time and many scoffed at the subtle changes made in EQ2,and many were just bummed out that there EQ1 was losing many of its players to EQ2,so they became bitter and moved to WOW.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
You people are hilarious.
How easily do you all forget Ultma Online pre-trammel the MOTHER of all modern MMORPGS(I take it most of you are too young to have ever even played it ovbviously). There are thousands of people to this very day(over 10 years later) who would still be playing UO even in 2D graphics. Those "free shards" out there are an embarassment and do not count. A game like UO is on a whole other level on its own and cannot be considered just an "mmorpg". UO was unlike any other game we have seen to this day. Darkfall is the ONLY game after 10 years that is poised to be its spiritual successor. There is a reason why DarkFall's community is one of the most passionate communities online.
Most of you simply just don't "get it". It's easy for you to sit there and refer to a game as a "sandbox" just because the only ones you've played are a perversion of UO such as SWG, EVE ect... If you have not played UO pre trammel then you simply don't know crap about what a game like that has to offer. To jumble UO together with SWG and EVE as just another "sandbox" is an insult.
But don't bother playing UO today. Ultima Online is like the Michael Jackson of the gaming world... a king back in it's day, but after all the changes it's been through, it is one scary mofo to look at.
If Blizzard is going to create another MMORPG run of the mill "sandbox" similar to EVE or SWG then whatever. I'm sure they will make it "successful" because after all you can literally get people to eat GARBAGE(mcdonalds, pepsi, ciggarrets, krispy kremes) with the properly funded marketing campaign. WoW is currently the bane of any self respecting MMORPG veteran because it doesn't require a brain. If Blizzard plans to actually recruit anyone that's not a noob to MMORPGs then they really need to study what exactly made UO successful back in the day and why people are still passionate about it til this day(NO it is not because it was one of the first mmorpgs around). Blizzard also needs to sit down and actually read and research one of the most active and passionate gaming communities online at www.DarkfallOnline.com. Blizzard ALSO MUST hire people in a team that have actually played UO pre trammel because that is the ONLY way that they will create a successful "sandbox". It's just experience on your resume you MUST have in order to understand what you're getting into. The Darkfall devs have actually played it and it's been VERY obvious to veterans. This is a large part of the reason why they've been receiving the enormous attention that they're getting.
UO pre trammel and Darkfall aren't just "games", "mmorpgs" or "sandboxes", they are World Simulators - a huge difference.
You clearly have no clue what a sandbox is appearently.
EVE Online is very much a sandbox! That your avatar is a ship doesn't make it otherwise! And next year in june you will even be able to set foot in a space station outside your ship.
Cheers
The most common step, in my opinion will be World of Starcraft (WoS from now on
) Only because World of diablo would be almost like WoW. Maybe they will develop it once WoW start loosing customers. In my opinion, the most probably choice would be a WoS theme park, just cose they already know or they hope it will work like WoW did. In fact I doubt they really know how the hell WoW got so much customers.
So you think when blizzard start creating a sandbox again millions of new players gonne play that?
You know what sandbox is right?
Its hardcore and hardcore will always be nich, unless they want to make a sandbox game for small comunity?
If they wanne make alot of money out of it and millions gonne play it they have to implement themepark featers in it or it will stay nich but then its no sandbox anymore:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
You clearly have no clue what a sandbox is appearently.
EVE Online is very much a sandbox! That your avatar is a ship doesn't make it otherwise! And next year in june you will even be able to set foot in a space station outside your ship.
Cheers
EVE is a sandbox to you. But not to me. Everyone has his own definitions and no one has the truth about it.
Have fun in it while it last, because the next big MMO from Blizzard will be SF - done right this time and it's about time.
Lol a blizzard fanboi thinks he knows it all you guys keep amaze me with lack of understanding what sandbox is think even what a themepark is:P
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
So you think when blizzard start creating a sandbox again millions of new players gonne play that?
You know what sandbox is right?
Its hardcore and hardcore will always be nich, unless they want to make a sandbox game for small comunity?
If they wanne make alot of money out of it and millions gonne play it they have to implement themepark featers in it or it will stay nich but then its no sandbox anymore:)
Believe me, Sandbox is NOT only for the hardcore. You sir fail at knowing the mmorpg, and I guess knowing the gaming community as a whole. Please, know your player base before posting. fgt
Could not of said that better myself, having been there done that and I feel like you do about DF giving us a glimmer of light, I have tried every game hoping it would at the very least come close to UO P/Trammel but have been let down so often and wonder from MMO to MMO like a cold zombie in search of life...
Asbo
Thought Blizzard said there won' be a new mmo from them in a long time. Thing is, they set their own bar so high a new mmo from them will be a massive undertaking and none of the people working at Blizzard is looking forward to that. Atleast that's what they say in interviews. They will focus on single/multiplayer games for a while and let WoW just run on it's own success, so to speak.
If Blizzard ever make a new mmo, it won't be sandbox, that's for sure. Sandbox games offer too much freedom and intrigue only the hardcore crowd. Blizzard excel at making themepark games, aka holding your hand and not allowing much deviation from the set path. Obviously that is what sell nowadays, not sandbox themed mmo's. Even nowadays, what is considered sandbox games, don't draw the huge crowds. Not cause they are bad games but because most people just don't like that playstyle.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Do you have any proof or is this just a guess?
Sure you could make a good mainstream sandbox game but I'm not sure Blizz could pull it off. In Wow they took features from other games and polished them. Not so easy to do that with SB games since we only seen a few of these, which means they would have to make all the features themselves.
Yeah, Blizzard have made really creative new thinking games like Diablo (not Diablo 2, new thinking games are not follow ups) and Warcraft. Now however Wow is the only game that is not a follow up Blizzard have made since '96. And many of the best people have quited Blizz since then.
The question is if Blizz can and dare to make a totaly new game now? No I think they are making Wow2 or possibly using Wow to make another "World of..." Probably Starcraft or Diablo.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blizzard_Entertainment Just look on the statistic, Blizz are making more and more sequels, not counting wow which are already using a well known world we havn't seen them do much of anything for 12 years. To me it looks like they are going EA, to big to actually dare doing any new thinking games anymore.
There was a time when EA made great games too, now they are just making crappy sequels. While Blizzard might not be there, they do seems to focus on sequels and they have grown very big. If they not starting to show that they can make new creative games soon they will turn into what EA has become.
You clearly have no clue what a sandbox is appearently.
EVE Online is very much a sandbox! That your avatar is a ship doesn't make it otherwise! And next year in june you will even be able to set foot in a space station outside your ship.
Cheers
EVE is a sandbox to you. But not to me. Everyone has his own definitions and no one has the truth about it.
Have fun in it while it last, because the next big MMO from Blizzard will be SF - done right this time and it's about time.
Well you proved my point. You clearly do not have a clue what a sandbox is.
Nothing further to say.
And for the record. I haven't played EVE Online for a long time anymore. So troll harder.
They stated a year or so back that they were developing an MMO based on a new IP, but that's all we know.
As I stated in a previous post, I can pretty much guarantee it won't be anything like WoW, although they will use the knowledge they have learned to make sure it is technically up to scratch. Whether that it is sanbox or something completely different, noone knows.
It not gonna happen , new Blizzard MMO will be even more themepark than current one is at this moment , reason is simple MONEY , they wont loose their current playerbase and most of it don't want sandbox game , they want another superbpolished pve grinder with Player vs Pillar options.
Most funny thing is for most of current WoW playerbase , WoW was first ever MMO , they compare evry new mmo on market to it and if this is not WoW-alike-polished-or-whatevere they dont wanna play it , so there is risk for Blizzard their new MMO can fail also because current playerbase wan't another WoW-alike game.
They've never made a good fresh game in their entire time making games....
WoW was not new, or fresh. In fact, I think its the ONLY MMO I've ever heard of that didn't bring one single unique features to the table when it came out. It STILL hasn't 4 years later with 100 devs working on it. Epic fail.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Read a little more about the mmo rumours. Apparently it will be some 'innovative' thing not related to WoW or it's gameplay at all. As usual, Blizzard is tight-lipped about the whole thing and the knowhows of the industry doubt this thing will see the light of day for quite a while. The rumours state development is began inhouse at Blizzard though.
Oh, and about the sandbox thing. To make an easier comparison, Fallout3 is sandbox, while Baldurs Gate is themepark. Sandbox games is all about the freedom to go anywhere, do anything. Themepark games force you down a pre-determined path. Google it up for yourself if you don't believe me, or the other guys in this thread saying the same thing.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
They've never made a good fresh game in their entire time making games....
WoW was not new, or fresh. In fact, I think its the ONLY MMO I've ever heard of that didn't bring one single unique features to the table when it came out. It STILL hasn't 4 years later with 100 devs working on it. Epic fail.
nah because they know better. It's preferred to perfect whats already good rather than invent something new and blizzards got that down to a science. Quit the hating man WoW's number 1 for a reason.
They've never made a good fresh game in their entire time making games....
WoW was not new, or fresh. In fact, I think its the ONLY MMO I've ever heard of that didn't bring one single unique features to the table when it came out. It STILL hasn't 4 years later with 100 devs working on it. Epic fail.
nah because they know better. It's preferred to perfect whats already good rather than invent something new and blizzards got that down to a science. Quit the hating man WoW's number 1 for a reason.
They didn't "perfect" anything. They took what others had created and spent years perfecting, and then simplified it as much as possible to the point where a 3 year old could play the game. Then, they marketed it to people who DON'T play games. And those of us that do, are left screwed out of a genre dominated by WoW clones that cater to said 3 year olds.
Darkfall Travelogues!
They've never made a good fresh game in their entire time making games....
WoW was not new, or fresh. In fact, I think its the ONLY MMO I've ever heard of that didn't bring one single unique features to the table when it came out. It STILL hasn't 4 years later with 100 devs working on it. Epic fail.
It did one thing unique to mmorpgs upon it's release: It did everything right.
Why would gamers from stat wars galaxies; shadowbane; everquest; Daoc, and many more flock to this game. Because upon release, it did everything right'; except calculate how many players would love their game: gg blizz.
Yeah.
Of course they haven't.
They've never made a good fresh game in their entire time making games....
WoW was not new, or fresh. In fact, I think its the ONLY MMO I've ever heard of that didn't bring one single unique features to the table when it came out. It STILL hasn't 4 years later with 100 devs working on it. Epic fail.
It did one thing unique to mmorpgs upon it's release: It did everything right.
Why would gamers from stat wars galaxies; shadowbane; everquest; Daoc, and many more flock to this game. Because upon release, it did everything right'; except calculate how many players would love their game: gg blizz.
They, didn't? I was playing DAoC at the time. People went through, had a blast leveling to 60, stopped around 40, and came back after the "new feel" wore off. The only people playing WoW now, are noobs who got sucked into the market through clever adds and the simplicity of the game, and the original MMO players that are bored to tears waiting for something new to come out.
Darkfall Travelogues!
WoW is the reason why most people dont know how to play MMO's anymore. Most of the time people who started playing WoW as their first mmo gotten so dumbed down that when they move to a different and new MMO they dont know what the hell they are doing anymore. No offence to anyone I was just generalizing, but I met a lot of people like this and it bothers me a lot.
They've never made a good fresh game in their entire time making games....
WoW was not new, or fresh. In fact, I think its the ONLY MMO I've ever heard of that didn't bring one single unique features to the table when it came out. It STILL hasn't 4 years later with 100 devs working on it. Epic fail.
It did one thing unique to mmorpgs upon it's release: It did everything right.
Why would gamers from stat wars galaxies; shadowbane; everquest; Daoc, and many more flock to this game. Because upon release, it did everything right'; except calculate how many players would love their game: gg blizz.
They, didn't? I was playing DAoC at the time. People went through, had a blast leveling to 60, stopped around 40, and came back after the "new feel" wore off. The only people playing WoW now, are noobs who got sucked into the market through clever adds and the simplicity of the game, and the original MMO players that are bored to tears waiting for something new to come out.
This is true. WOW is the only MMO I continued to play while disliking many of its features immensely. I payed Blizz my money, I played their game, and I griped the entire time; I really dislike their in-game humor, mindless quests, and blending of steampunk and modernity in with fantasy.
Why did I play? Because the game is well-polished and where most of the players are. I am one of those "original MMO players...bored to tears waiting for something new to come out."
But, if I had to do it over again, I'd have stuck with Dark Age of Camelot; one of the best MMO"s every designed. in fact, I am comtemplating re-subbing, even though I know it's a dying game.
Who knows what Blizzards next mmo will be but I sure would love to see them do a sandbox style mmo.
I really doubt Blizzard will ever do a sandbox mmo why change i formula who have worked so well so far?
To beat the competition to the punch. It would be brilliant. Blizzard releases the first polished sandbox game. They will corner the market on that style of game play, just like they did with WoW and the themepark game.
Other companies will release buggy junky sandboxes, people will try them, and go back to the Blizzard sandbox. Genius.
Blizzard only works with systems that have been proven to sell. That said though, I wouldn't doubt that thier next MMO will be a dumbed down somewhat cartoony version of Eve packaged as Starcraft Online.
Sorry to prove you wrong.
But in this definition of your "sandbox" every MMORPG in its end game is a sandbox.
Perhaps Wow even the biggest because the end game choices are even more free and wider than in a lot of other MMORPG's. (Arena, Bg's, open world PvP zones, PVE heroics, daily professions, Raids, AH trading, fishing competitions, e-sports with real price money).
So it is further proof everyone defines HIS definition of a sandbox. Even EVE is a sandbox to some, a game where your avatar can't even leave his cockpit chair, while helicopters can be made as flying mounts in Wow.
As long as everyone invents his/her definitions of a sandbox, it's useless to discuss the matter. And no Wow is not a version of Baldur's Gate online. Apparently you never played it past the leveling system.
Well, I'm doubly sorry to say you seem to misunderstand what sandbox gameplay really is. WoW ain't a sandbox game. Can you go anywhere you want in WoW? Nope, you are handheld through each zone via quests and if you so much as dare to show your face in one of the highbie zones your aggrorange will be a freaking mile wide and you'll pull half the zone that will kill you faster than you can say eep.
Endgame choices got nothing to do with sandbox or not. Either the whole game is sandbox, or it isn't. Even at endgame certain zones are closed off to you ie you can't go directly to the topraid and kill the boss without having cleared the previous raids and gotten the gear they give. Eve is more sandboxy than WoW though but even there you need to follow a set route and train certain skills before you can fly around in 0,0 space therefore making it a sandbox game at it's core.
In other words, sandbox play enable you to ignore the usual route and go anywhere you want, to do anything you want. WoW doesn't allow this and since it doesn't, it's a themepark game.
Check this definition for sandbox from Wikipedia. While Wikipedia is a questionable source they are right about this one.
Edit: Saw Freelancer mentioned in that article. Now, if Eve had Freelancers combat model it would be the perfect mmo for me
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Umm WRONG ! WOW as you know it ALREADY existed and still exists ,it is called EVERQUEST.Wow stole the majority of MMORPG gamers when the market was just booming,now the game continues to grow off itself and it's name.It has nothing to do with making of the game or doing it right.As a matter of fact MANY gamers scoffed at the idea of returning to get your SHARD in EQ2,yet in WOW they adopted the exact same idea and yet nobody cares.So it is real obvious it is not about the game at all,it is about marketing/hype and now the sheer size of WOW intrigues people.The size really should not matter because you will stil lhave the normal 5-10k players per server,wow just happens to have more servers.
The simple fact is 99% of the WOW base NEVER played a free trial,they were going to play the game no matter what,because they see it is big in the news and has the most players and there buddies or friends or class mates are playing it.I would also bet 90% of the WOW base originally never played many other BIG games,to know others even existed,they most likely came from xbox or playstation console gaming.For many it was there FIRST MMORPG,so obviously they have a spot for it even to this day.
Most of the original EQ crowd were already around gaming online for quite some time and many scoffed at the subtle changes made in EQ2,and many were just bummed out that there EQ1 was losing many of its players to EQ2,so they became bitter and moved to WOW.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.