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Harvesting and crafting "mini game"
Neochrome
Member Posts: 59
I posted this on existing harvesting thread in SOE forum but didn't get any reply. My guess is that it struck raw nerve but for whatever it's worthed I will repost it here...
Crafting mini game: anyone who ever heard of ACTool will create a simple macro that "Whacks the mole" as they pop during crafting. End of it.
Harvesting being tied to adventurer lvl ONLY is a moronic decision. Before flames start and "Moorgard said this and that", I'm talking about harvested components, not looted ones. Adventurers lvl40+ have better things to do and means of making money than harvesting, like ADVENTURING. There is something wrong with a game where level 50 zerker goes around using his mad skilz to pick flowers.
What is the "end game" for craftsmen? Scanning the markets to see if there are any harvested components available? Telling adventurers "This is what I need for your sword, go fetch."? Where is the incentive to leave a city at all? To harvest at lvl 10?
How about this: as a craftsman you go harvesting in dangerous places and there is a chance that you will harvest 1 in a million component that gives that Uber Sword recipe additional +10k in dorkines? I know it does sound a bit like SWG but it's better than what it is right now...
Comments
Well first of all, if there is any game that you can't use a macro-bot to craft in, it's EQ2.
And to harvest things.. you can't select targets that you want to mine, forest, etc., so making a macro-bot would be pretty damn hard since you have to double click on a rock to mine.
You can't select rocks at all, you just double click. A macro-bot wouldn't be able to know exactly where to double click on the screen.. at least as far as I know.
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
I was talking about crafting mini game. I saw some pictures of crafting process and ACTool can do it fairly easy as it can recognize static "objects" (icons, health bars and so on) and act accordingly (click, double click at given places etc).
My point is not that you can make a bot for harvesting (altho from your description and some videos you CAN because harvestable objects get that "highlighted" color when you hover mouse over them). Point is, getting crafters to lvl 50 would be a long process and for what? So that adventurers can come to you, give you components and tell you run ACTool for me pls?
"SOE shot my dog, killed my parents, stole my wife, and kiddnapped my lawn gnome."
This place is full of tree-huggers and tofu fartn' faeries...
OK I will reply to this post because it has info value to it, posts like "it is idiotic you may get caught" don't address the issue at all and they are not appreciated. If you think that I'm the only one who ever came to conclusion that "mini game" can be botted, well THANK YOU, didn't realize I have such a unique insight.
Back to topic, yes I did read Moorgard index, top to bottom. My concern is that like you said "you may have to work on adventuring skills" in order to advance your crafting skill. As an adventurer you have FUN playing the game and even harvesting in dangerous areas, where is the fun part in crafting?
The fun part is that after you work so long to harvest and level up in crafting, people will come to you to get stuff and give you lots of gold.
Dewd, NO harvesting. Get it? NO HARVESTING FOR PURE CRAFTERS!
Dewd, NO harvesting. Get it? NO HARVESTING FOR PURE CRAFTERS!
Why do you say that? Crafters can harvest. Crafters will harvest just as much as other players.
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
"Harvesting skills are tied to the adventuring class and skill levels rise with the players adventure level. A player with a higher skill will be able to see more objects that can be used, than a player with lower skill. "
Also from Moorgard:
http://www.eqii.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=186569#186569
"Look at the opposite scenario. Get an artisan to level 50 and you can make great gear for yourself as you start out as an adventuerer. But how are you going to get the components? You won't be able to go out and kill stuff to obtain the best components yet, because being a level 50 artisan won't help you in that regard. So you're still dependent upon other players in a significant way. "
EDIT: OK Moorgard is prolly talking about LOOTED components, which I agree should be tied to adventuring. Please read my original post in this thread.
I think that we will see crafting macros come out very quickly for EQII.
As evidence I offer what happend in A Tale in the Desert: There were "brick furnaces" that used a VERY complex system of multiple variables PLUS random furnace-specfic traits to prevent macroing. They were macroed anyway. General formulas were devloped to take care of the multi-variable management and a test system was devised to discover the furnace specfic constant that the macro would take and use in it's own formula to preform the macro.
Was it as good as the best players at playing the variables? No. But it was better than most of them.(The same way doctor-programs are better than most doctors but not as good as the best.)
So yes you will very quikcly see any formula they implement discovered and macros written to manulipulate crafting. (The guy who wrote ATITD is a flat out genius. If HE can't stop macroing there is no way the EQ devs can.)
If you are a level 50 artisan don't you need to be a level 50 adventurer? Or at least stay within a few levels?
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
I think that if they used system that is similar to verification system on some web sites where you have to retype some text that is hard to discern from background it may have worked. Only instead of text use hard to discern icons. The way it is now with those bright red-blue-gold icons that pop up, you can test like 2-3 POINTS on screen and know what has to be done.
I know it is inevitable to have ppl selling game money and equipment for RL money (ummm, there is an adverting on MMORPG), just I would hate to see this game turn into yet another Lin2 with botters, scammers, and exploiters...
EDIT:OK imagine this: you are working on a forge, and there is a huge flickering flame that sometimes takes a hard to discern shape of some icon (while still flickering and waving). Not only much "cooler" but harder to bot
OK this thread is going nowhere... Would be nice to hear from people who know what I am talking about instead of having to explain where it says that harvesting lvl is linked to adventuring etc.
ACTool has feature called "objects". It is basicaly set of points on screen that you can test for curently displayed color. So for example you can determine from a screeshot position of icons that pop up during crafting. Then you can test that position in a loop to determine which icon ("object") is shown and invoke proper skill accordingly. It amounts to 5 lines macro.
Ok this is just an opinion but........
I think that harvesting being linked to your adventuring lvl is for economic(sp) reasons.
In all games i have played that have a big crafting system it is difficult for the adventurer to make the cash to buy the items they want(and stay upto date on there gear), with eq2's harvesting system being linked to adventuring it means the adventurer has an extra income stream(by selling harvesed goods or trading them for items).
To me though this seems like a double edged sword because if the crafter has to buy more things in to make the items then they will charge more fo the completed goods.
P.S yes i am in the beta and dabble in both adventuring and crafting so i dont have to worry