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Everyone should be cheering for Darkfall to be a success
Whether you like DF or not, follow the drama or not, argue pointlessly or not, like it or not Darkfall's release could very well be an incredibly important point in MMO history. Darkfall will be the first game to break the WoW clone mold in a long time, and it's success or failure could have a strong dictation on the future of the genre. If Darkfall is a big success(not WoW big, but Eve big), it could open the eyes of some bigger companies to start putting thought, creativity, and originality back into their games, instead of just dumping in whatever WoW features they think will make them a quick buck and shipping it out.
Failure of Darkfall, even if it is for reasons beyond basic mechanics(poor launch, lots of bugs, ect) could cause all of the big companies to even further close themselves off from the sandbox style game so many of us crave, and encourage them to pump out even more half aborted WoW abominations.
Whether you like it or not, for the sake of this genre, and the thinking man's MMO sanity, everyone should be cheering for Darkfall.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Comments
Excellent post. Completely agree and have been trying to explain this for a long time now.
People who continue to put this game down (not giving their skepticism but we all know there are those who actively campaign against this game) are NOT GAMERS.
We should all be rooting for DF.
January 22nd 2009 will be a great day....or a let down if the game doesnt release well. Either way we will be in game and finding out.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Very good thread.
Hmm im surpriced, i actually agree with you.
I think some of the big companies are lost to creativity forever tbh, every good game I've played this year with the exception of Fallout 3 has come from and indie developer. Unless they do some major reorganisation they will continue to produce more of the same shovelware. EA has been talking about returning the power to their studios but I will believe it when I see it.
We, as gamers, NEED darkfall to do well. I don't know about the rest of you.. but I'm f'n tired of playing WoW knock offs..
"Luckily I know that while you make nonsnese baiting threads that get locked....threads I make get sticked by the mods on this forum...." -imbant (greatest board warrior EVER)
Darkfall Countdown: http://darkfallreleasedate.com/
I'm tired of easy peasy wookie-cutters (wow+cookie-cutter=wookie-cutter!)
I'm all for the success of Darkfall if it means you whiney "thinking man's MMO" nerds stfu already about "sandboxes" and "WoW clones".
I agree. I'm not sure how Darkfall will be, but it has all the makings of a game that so much of us are looking for in a genre that has grown quite stale. I am willing to forgive a less than perfect launch and support the game if it has the pontential to be great. BUT if they lie to me, take my money, and betray my trust there is no amount of snow mammoths that will make it better...I'm not that easy.
Aren't you being just a little selfish? You have a plethora of "hold your hand" theme park MMO's, and you are telling us to "shut up and be happy" with 2 or 3 "think for yourself" MMOs? Very selfish....
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
we couldnt have one decent thread where we all agree and there is not animosity could we. nope not on these forums.
/golfclap
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
i wish every single game the best of luck (including hello kitty online). i dont see why anyone would wish thousands (in this case hundreds of thousands) of hours of development to go to waste.
i wish Darkfall the best of luck and i think it would be great for Europe, Greece and indie developers (though i have seen how great they can be already).
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
In case there is any doubt - I want Darkfall to be a success!
Its because theres too many ignorant Elitist gamer's. Aventurine is releasing a game with a concept that people will enjoy if its done well. Everyone should be rooting for the success of the game because of what it could potentially accomplish with its unique style and mechanics/features. People who deny its potential are just incapable of forming a rational opinion. lol
Say yay, not nay.
Aren't you being just a little selfish? You have a plethora of "hold your hand" theme park MMO's, and you are telling us to "shut up and be happy" with 2 or 3 "think for yourself" MMOs? Very selfish....
I'm being selfish?
Are you not encouraging people to blindly throw their support behind this game (even if it turns out to be a complete disaster) just to further your own agenda? Isn't that the entire premise of this thread?
Look, I have nothing to gain by either the success or failure of Darkfall (or any other MMO for that matter). I'm just sick of the divisive and elitist crap people of your ilk keep spouting over "half aborted WoW abominations" and "hold your hand" theme parks.
So you like sandboxes? Good for you. You're still every bit as much a nerd as the rest of us video gaming dweebs. You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. Get over yourself and lay off the condescending "thinking man" bullsh!t, plz.
Aren't you being just a little selfish? You have a plethora of "hold your hand" theme park MMO's, and you are telling us to "shut up and be happy" with 2 or 3 "think for yourself" MMOs? Very selfish....
I'm being selfish?
Are you not encouraging people to blindly throw their support behind this game (even if it turns out to be a complete disaster) just to further your own agenda? Isn't that the entire premise of this thread?
Look, I have nothing to gain by either the success or failure of Darkfall (or any other MMO for that matter). I'm just sick of the divisive and elitist crap people of your ilk keep spouting over "half aborted WoW abominations" and "hold your hand" theme parks.
So you like sandboxes? Good for you. You're still every bit as much a nerd as the rest of us video gaming dweebs. You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. Get over yourself and lay off the condescending "thinking man" bullsh!t, plz.
But you're not forced to come here and post? So why do you do it?
Anyhow, OP I agree with you. Tho we have many other companies crawling out from the table showing that a sandbox game is something that can be done.
______________________________
The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
and send them to the Special Olympus.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
OP is basically 100% right
i only disagree slightly, and then only with the idea that everyone will be happy about DF's successful release. the companies developing any kind of clone that has been dubbed "next-gen" because of shader X+1 graphics and a streamlined grinding experience are outright fucked if this game garners any kind of critical attention, as are the current pvp-appeasement time wasters like Warhammer and Age of Conan
everyone else should be praying- to Jeebus, or Allah, or Richard Dawkins, or Tiamat- for this to go even decently. no point in speculating i suppose, but i want this game to fucking rock. Aventurine just needs to show us more to "bring the hype" within the next week, if they've got it. the second they do that, the worst of the malingerers will not only shut up, but kneel. there's a part inside everyone that wants this game to do well, and most people (like me) are only pissed because they don't have it right now
I agree if Darkfall does well it will be a boon to the genre. I have posted so in the past here before. However turning a blind eye, and accepting everything thats written about a game does not make it better I would argue. Many fans have posted and seem to agree that to a certain extent its been the doubters, skeptics, and even occasional troll that has kept this forum alive over the years when Aventurine had little to no information.
Questioning or doubting something with facts and honest discussion is not bad in my opinion, neither is hyping beyond all expectations good IMO ("Darkfall will be out 2008 for sure", "greatest game ever", "Graphics better then AoC and LoTRO", " 200 vs 200 battles!")
Some questions for open discussion (please save the flaming for someone that cares.)
(A) Will accepting everything the Devs say as the truth and never questioning Darkfall Aventurine make DF a better MMO? If so how? Will hyping it as a unplayed game make it a success?
(B) Will questioning the honesty of Aventurine, or some feature of Darkfall lead to the downfall of DF? If again how?
(C) Will showing your elitism by mocking the OP in a positive pro- Darkfall thread with a golfclap help Darkfall? Will it lead to more positive pro-darkfall threads or just start more trolling? Will it make the fan community look super cool and neat, or simply make said poster look like the troll version of a fanbois?
Aren't you being just a little selfish? You have a plethora of "hold your hand" theme park MMO's, and you are telling us to "shut up and be happy" with 2 or 3 "think for yourself" MMOs? Very selfish....
I'm being selfish?
Are you not encouraging people to blindly throw their support behind this game (even if it turns out to be a complete disaster) just to further your own agenda? Isn't that the entire premise of this thread?
Look, I have nothing to gain by either the success or failure of Darkfall (or any other MMO for that matter). I'm just sick of the divisive and elitist crap people of your ilk keep spouting over "half aborted WoW abominations" and "hold your hand" theme parks.
So you like sandboxes? Good for you. You're still every bit as much a nerd as the rest of us video gaming dweebs. You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. Get over yourself and lay off the condescending "thinking man" bullsh!t, plz.
Hmm the OP had a very thoughtful thread going and then comes you all upset cause Darkfall could be something good for this genre, the MMOPRG one?
Themeparks we seen to many of lately so a hopefully good sandbox would be some fresh air, wouldnt you agree?
Aren't you being just a little selfish? You have a plethora of "hold your hand" theme park MMO's, and you are telling us to "shut up and be happy" with 2 or 3 "think for yourself" MMOs? Very selfish....
I'm being selfish?
Are you not encouraging people to blindly throw their support behind this game (even if it turns out to be a complete disaster) just to further your own agenda? Isn't that the entire premise of this thread?
Look, I have nothing to gain by either the success or failure of Darkfall (or any other MMO for that matter). I'm just sick of the divisive and elitist crap people of your ilk keep spouting over "half aborted WoW abominations" and "hold your hand" theme parks.
So you like sandboxes? Good for you. You're still every bit as much a nerd as the rest of us video gaming dweebs. You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. Get over yourself and lay off the condescending "thinking man" bullsh!t, plz.
Hmm the OP had a very thoughtful thread going and then comes you all upset cause Darkfall could be something good for this genre, the MMOPRG one?
Themeparks we seen to many of lately so a hopefully good sandbox would be some fresh air, wouldnt you agree?
You know Aragon your probably right and Han was disruptive, but isn't it funny how its ok for a fan to mock the OP with golfclap and then even go so far as to even define it as mockery (leaving no doubt)
We have a postive Darkfall thread here and so far its 1 to 1 in fans vs trolls being disruptive or insulting. I'd call this interesting. Seems the fan community is no better then the trolls. Feel free to discuss. Do these forums have a double standard? You know one where the fans can do no wrong but the doubters, skeptics and trolls are just wrong?
Aren't you being just a little selfish? You have a plethora of "hold your hand" theme park MMO's, and you are telling us to "shut up and be happy" with 2 or 3 "think for yourself" MMOs? Very selfish....
I'm being selfish?
Are you not encouraging people to blindly throw their support behind this game (even if it turns out to be a complete disaster) just to further your own agenda? Isn't that the entire premise of this thread?
Look, I have nothing to gain by either the success or failure of Darkfall (or any other MMO for that matter). I'm just sick of the divisive and elitist crap people of your ilk keep spouting over "half aborted WoW abominations" and "hold your hand" theme parks.
So you like sandboxes? Good for you. You're still every bit as much a nerd as the rest of us video gaming dweebs. You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. Get over yourself and lay off the condescending "thinking man" bullsh!t, plz.
The fact that you having nothing to gain by it's success says clearly that you will not be playing it then?
So, you are in a forum having an argument with a fan of a game about a game that you will never play and have 'nothing to gain' if it flys or not?
So, your just here for the argument then? Just here to rile a few fanboys and get into a fight by just being as personally insulting as you think you can get away with? I mean.. your not even attacking the game here, your directly attacking the fans...
Now I rarely use the word, if at all, but y'know what?
Troll. By definition.
Listen, I know that I am wasting my time typing here... I know the need for argument to validate themselves has entrenched the haters on this forum so deeply that I would need dynamite to shift 'em. I know there is no space for objective and rational debate here. I know it's a bunch of children spitting meaningless insults at each from behind monitors, because they would get a punch for acting the same way in public. I know I have only words that will be ignored in their need to maniplulate others by upsetting them, because it boosts their own low self esteem to control others. I know the argument stopped being about a game a long time ago, and has become a game in itself. But I have a spare 10 mins... so...
I agree that It is good for everyone that DF should succeed.
If you kill the niche MMORPG then the industry wil stagnate and die. We are in the 11th hour of this happening already.
Indies, until they release, should be supported and cheered, even if the product means nothing to you personally on the smaller scale.
Think about it.
Diversity and range in the games on offer can only be good for us all.
Indies are obviously our last hope in this hobby to get a game that appeals to a smaller section of the market, and the only ones that come with a passion and love for what they are doing, with the artistic and financial freedom to actually do it. We arnt all in love with the way mainstream gaming is going, much the same way as we arnt all in love with mainstream films or music.
There needs to be grass roots indie companies out there doing what the giant dev stables won't.
If they then release sh*t, fair enough, hate 'em then if you need to, but not before. Cut them some slack, they are already attempting something that is incredibly hard and noone needs hormonal teenagers adding to that on every forum. Judge them on what they deliver.
We should be hoping that EVERY mmorpg is great and can deliver, and until they DO release we shouldnt demand that they dedicate to same rescources to PR/ Spin/ Hype as the majors can. They simply havent the resource for this. Accept that and move on.
The genre as a whole can only be hurt by the fail of yet another potentiolly good game that has the chance to bring passion and diversity back to online games. This will just mean less money invested and less freedom given to devs by those money men to take the risks that will take the genre forward.
Tell me that is what you want?
This isnt about elitism, it's about choice. I want to have the choice to not play ez mode anti-social solo quest grind knitting simulators. If you love those games, great, go play 'em. DF in no way threatens their existence.
Remember; Noone owes you anything until they take money off you. There is no need to feel lied to or cheated, because you havent been. If you DO feel that way, then that says more about you then DF. No contract has been entered and no obligation exists between you and them. They give you what they want to give you, when they want to give it to you, for better or worse, and you are free to judge if you want to buy based on that.
There is no con here, you will be able to see the product before you choose to buy it or not, and no crusade to be fought. You only have to stop coming to forums for a game that you will never play for it to stop effecting you. You only have to walk away to get better.
Why not just stop the hate for just over the next month and a half and wait and see? Take a break already.
Oh well.. thats my 10 mins up... Take it or leave it.
Edited for proof reading... still might have missed some :P
Actually I do not share good will towards some of the games that have been released lately. to many have hyped themselves and failed to deliver. This is not a trend to encourage.
As for DF I find encouragement that the game will live or die on it's merits, not a marketing blitz. If it can deliver as promised, it may be one of the most important launches in the last few years.
i disagree because although Darkfall is a sandbox, it's just one type of sandbox.
A sandbox does not require, at all:
1. FFA PvP. See SWG pre-NGE which most people consider a sandbox, NO FFA PvP. See EVE, which has safe areas. See UO, which was still considered a sandbox even after Trammel.
2. Using skills to increase them as a character advancement system. No way you are going to argue that a game cannot be a sandbox unless you use this character advancement system.
3. Full Loot
4. FPS style aiming in combat.
NONE of these things are required to be a Sandbox game, and ALL of them are in DArkfall. So a Darkfall failure does not equal a SANDBOX failure.
A Darkfall failure might equal a FFA PvP, Full Loot, FPS style combat, use skills to increase them, failure.
Sorry but no. If it is a crappy game it has to fail.
You sound like Mark Jacobs saying that if WAR failed it would be a major problem for the whole industry ROFL
Why does every troll miss the point?
Yes, if DF is terrible it deserves to fail and no longer deserves your support. Thats a fact. Noone is arguing that. Noone is saying crappy games must be supported.
But before it is even released?
Y'know what?
I can't even be bothered to keep typing the same posts, only to have them ignored because the trolls don't have a rational angle to counter them. Nothing seems to penetrate their skulls.
Listen, try reading this again and understanding it....
It is good for everyone that DF should succeed.
If you kill the niche MMORPG then the industry wil stagnate and die. We are in the 11th hour of this happening already.
Indies, until they release, should be supported and cheered, even if the product means nothing to you personally on the smaller scale.
Think about it.
Diversity and range in the games on offer can only be good for us all.
Indies are obviously our last hope in this hobby to get a game that appeals to a smaller section of the market, and the only ones that come with a passion and love for what they are doing, with the artistic and financial freedom to actually do it. We arnt all in love with the way mainstream gaming is going, much the same way as we arnt all in love with mainstream films or music.
There needs to be grass roots indie companies out there doing what the giant dev stables won't.
If they then release sh*t, fair enough, hate 'em then if you need to, but not before. Cut them some slack, they are already attempting something that is incredibly hard and noone needs hormonal teenagers adding to that on every forum. Judge them on what they deliver.
We should be hoping that EVERY mmorpg is great and can deliver, and until they DO release we shouldnt demand that they dedicate to same rescources to PR/ Spin/ Hype as the majors can. They simply havent the resource for this. Accept that and move on.
The genre as a whole can only be hurt by the fail of yet another potentiolly good game that has the chance to bring passion and diversity back to online games. This will just mean less money invested and less freedom given to devs by those money men to take the risks that will take the genre forward.
Tell me that is what you want?
This isnt about elitism, it's about choice. I want to have the choice to not play ez mode anti-social solo quest grind knitting simulators. If you love those games, great, go play 'em. DF in no way threatens their existence.
Remember; Noone owes you anything until they take money off you. There is no need to feel lied to or cheated, because you havent been. If you DO feel that way, then that says more about you then DF. No contract has been entered and no obligation exists between you and them. They give you what they want to give you, when they want to give it to you, for better or worse, and you are free to judge if you want to buy based on that.
There is no con here, you will be able to see the product before you choose to buy it or not, and no crusade to be fought. You only have to stop coming to forums for a game that you will never play for it to stop effecting you. You only have to walk away to get better.
Why not just stop the hate for just over the next month and a half and wait and see? Take a break already.
I 100% agree with your points of what Darkfall has that aren't needed for a sandbox game. In face, I don't even like points 1, 3, and 4 in my MMO's. What I'm saying is that Darkfall is the first game to break the WoW clone mold in a long time, and it's success or failure could dictate the possibility of a AAA sandbox game being developed in the future. I'm not saying that the AAA will have exactly the features as Darkfall, but if Darkfall fails, the posibility of a AAA sandbox will diminish greatly, as they are only in it for the money, and not to make a great game. If they still only see money available in WoW clone style games, that is all they will produce.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.