"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
I hope this game does well for many reasons i wont get into here.......if it releases. Im one of the ppl sitting back waiting to see what will happen. Ill give it a try but personally im tired of fantasy mmo's in general and Earthrise will be my next sandbox pvp game ill be playing.
Darkfall does have lot of things going for it and I hope it succeeds. I'll raise a beer to all the Darkfall fans who have stood by this game come jan 22. (again if it releases) ,but i'll wait for the USA release.
Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR. Playing EVE Online and AOC. Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD
As a avid mmorpg fan since first logging into UO back in 97, I can honestly say I have seen and played them all and long for a game that returns the gerne to its roots.
As far as time commitments, much has changed for me over the last 11 years since I got into this hobby. I have a career now rather than a job, I have a family of my own and all the trapping that go along with such. I can certainly relate to and appreciate the comments made here regarding how the DF model no longer fits many an adults busy lifestyle. In the past I have pounded the same drum myself, I wont deny it. That being said, with 11 years worth of MMO's behind me, what is lost making games ever more accessible far outweighs that which we gain.
For my entertainment dollar I will gladly experience a deeper / richer gaming environment with less time to do it in than visa-versa.
As far has the open hostility to a FFA PVP environment goes; I am going to go out on a limb and bluntly state something thats sure to cause an uproar and I have never seen posted.
A truly dynamic and interactive world needs victims.
Shocking isn't it?
The scandal!
The horror!
It doesn't have to be (and I certainly hope it isn't) me every night. Nor does it have to be you. But unfortunately it must be someone. Some weeks we all may feel that we have gotten far more than our fair share. We can only hope that its spread out enough to where the good of the game makes it worth suffering the bad.
Before you flame me and write me off, please keep in mind I do not say this as a player killer. In fact I am quite the opposite, I have always been in the anti-pk camp, and will freely admit to never being a very good one. I can tell you I have taken far more dirt naps than I have ever doled out. I have lost countless hours of game time over the years so some 12 year old could feel "manly" at my expense. (Please excuse the blatant stereotype)
I was there in Kazolas Tavern making stools every night after the griefers came in and reduced the existing ones to kindling "because they could". (You younguns ask some of the old timers to explain that one)
So if the above is true why on earth would I support FFA PvP with full looting?
Because every good story needs a worthy villain.
Because it takes all kinds to make a world.
Because it provides real causes to champion.
Because it supports a healthy game economy.
Because it makes crafting truly worthwhile.
Because it inspires passion in the community.
Because it instills comradery among the player base.
Because it forces you to think about your actions.
Because your reputation now truly means something.
Because the alternative is raiding or theme parks.
I think I could do that all night, but you get the point I hope. No theme park game can do those things to the same degree. No dev team can write a back story to enstill that kind of passion in its users. Hell Speilberg couldn't write that back story!
I support FFA PvP because what is lost far outweighs that which we gain.
The question then becomes how do you sell;
"Come play our game and be a victim! (occasionally)
I don't know. I don't think you do. If your a developer and you have someone in marketing that knows how , make him or her a full partner.
And thats my biggest fear for Darkfall (or any game like it). Without people like me AND the big mean griefer it will never realize its potential. If folks like myself do not fight to keep it from becoming a griefers paradise then thats all it will ever be. It is in that very struggle that it becomes what its meant to be.
If Darkfall delivers on all its promises and bombs it will not be because Aventurine failed their fans.
It will be because the fans natural tendency to take the path of least resistance failed Aventurine.
Success or failure, the outcome of Darkfall is important, that's why I'm bothering to follow it.
If Darkfall succeeds Developers will learn that they don’t need a proven history of making games, communicating with your community during development, lifting the NDA months before release and extensive public beta testing with thousands of players.
If Darkfall fails the MMORPG Community will learn that they should demand Developers present proof rather only offering years of hype before believing anything no matter how much players might want a game to revolutionize the genre.
Darkfall’s success will be a lesson to Developers. Darkfall’s failure will be a lesson to the MMORPG Community.
We'll see which lesson Aventurine is going to teach in a little more than a month. The quesiton is whether the lesson WILL BE LEARNED.
Darkfall’s failure will be a lesson to the MMORPG Community. We'll see which lesson Aventurine is going to teach in a little more than a month. The quesiton is whether the lesson WILL BE LEARNED.
The 'community' is too stupid to learn any lesson no matter how often it is taught.
Darkfall’s failure will be a lesson to the MMORPG Community. We'll see which lesson Aventurine is going to teach in a little more than a month. The quesiton is whether the lesson WILL BE LEARNED.
The 'community' is too stupid to learn any lesson no matter how often it is taught.
Yes, it won't be learned, no matter what, it won't. Next time will be just the same. Only a few fanbois will realize the truth about developers today, but each one will be replaced by 5 new 14yo fanbois with renewed energy and increased devotion for some guy like Tasos or Mark Jacobs. It's written in stone.
As a avid mmorpg fan since first logging into UO back in 97, I can honestly say I have seen and played them all and long for a game that returns the gerne to its roots. As far as time commitments, much has changed for me over the last 11 years since I got into this hobby. I have a career now rather than a job, I have a family of my own and all the trapping that go along with such. I can certainly relate to and appreciate the comments made here regarding how the DF model no longer fits many an adults busy lifestyle. In the past I have pounded the same drum myself, I wont deny it. That being said, with 11 years worth of MMO's behind me, what is lost making games ever more accessible far outweighs that which we gain. For my entertainment dollar I will gladly experience a deeper / richer gaming environment with less time to do it in than visa-versa. As far has the open hostility to a FFA PVP environment goes; I am going to go out on a limb and bluntly state something thats sure to cause an uproar and I have never seen posted. A truly dynamic and interactive world needs victims. Shocking isn't it?
The scandal!
The horror! It doesn't have to be (and I certainly hope it isn't) me every night. Nor does it have to be you. But unfortunately it must be someone. Some weeks we all may feel that we have gotten far more than our fair share. We can only hope that its spread out enough to where the good of the game makes it worth suffering the bad. Before you flame me and write me off, please keep in mind I do not say this as a player killer. In fact I am quite the opposite, I have always been in the anti-pk camp, and will freely admit to never being a very good one. I can tell you I have taken far more dirt naps than I have ever doled out. I have lost countless hours of game time over the years so some 12 year old could feel "manly" at my expense. (Please excuse the blatant stereotype)
I was there in Kazolas Tavern making stools every night after the griefers came in and reduced the existing ones to kindling "because they could". (You younguns ask some of the old timers to explain that one) So if the above is true why on earth would I support FFA PvP with full looting? Because every good story needs a worthy villain.
Because it takes all kinds to make a world.
Because it provides real causes to champion.
Because it supports a healthy game economy.
Because it makes crafting truly worthwhile.
Because it inspires passion in the community.
Because it instills comradery among the player base.
Because it forces you to think about your actions.
Because your reputation now truly means something.
Because the alternative is raiding or theme parks. I think I could do that all night, but you get the point I hope. No theme park game can do those things to the same degree. No dev team can write a back story to enstill that kind of passion in its users. Hell Speilberg couldn't write that back story! I support FFA PvP because what is lost far outweighs that which we gain. The question then becomes how do you sell; "Come play our game and be a victim! (occasionally) I don't know. I don't think you do. If your a developer and you have someone in marketing that knows how , make him or her a full partner. And thats my biggest fear for Darkfall (or any game like it). Without people like me AND the big mean griefer it will never realize its potential. If folks like myself do not fight to keep it from becoming a griefers paradise then thats all it will ever be. It is in that very struggle that it becomes what its meant to be. If Darkfall delivers on all its promises and bombs it will not be because Aventurine failed their fans. It will be because the fans natural tendency to take the path of least resistance failed Aventurine. And that would be a shame.
Very well said. I'm glad you found this worthy of your second post in years
"If a sandbox game like Darkfall is financially successful, it will send a message to developers that not only is there a market for sandbox MMOs, but there is money to be made in innovation."
Well, financially successfuly presumably means the MMO stays running and in profit. Even so called failures running with around 150k subs can be classed as "financially successful" surely?
"Whether you believe that Tasos will deliver what he has been promising us for years or not, before you jump on bashing bandwagon, stop and think about how a successful Darkfall will affect the MMORPG genre."
This whole thread has a similar feeling to what was around just before AoC released, so much was promised and alot has still never materialised. Even in the developer vids when we were promised "massive battles with hundreds of people" right up until launch when it turned out to have a limit of 80.
I hope Darkfall turns out to be the golden chalice you all think it will be, I really do, but I think you all need to be realistic. Just seems like the same old PR, Dev, deja vu we have before every singlt MMO launch...
Darkfall’s failure will be a lesson to the MMORPG Community. We'll see which lesson Aventurine is going to teach in a little more than a month. The quesiton is whether the lesson WILL BE LEARNED.
The 'community' is too stupid to learn any lesson no matter how often it is taught.
Yes, it won't be learned, no matter what, it won't. Next time will be just the same. Only a few fanbois will realize the truth about developers today, but each one will be replaced by 5 new 14yo fanbois with renewed energy and increased devotion for some guy like Tasos or Mark Jacobs. It's written in stone.
Good points.
But Darkfall is still important to the genre, even it it's only a beacon for small game companies who plug away for years and years and years (what was it? seven or eight years?).
The odds are good it will fail, but... I will still call it a success when it releases. A year ago I would have bet against any chance of it releasing.
Darkfall’s failure will be a lesson to the MMORPG Community. We'll see which lesson Aventurine is going to teach in a little more than a month. The quesiton is whether the lesson WILL BE LEARNED.
The 'community' is too stupid to learn any lesson no matter how often it is taught.
Yes, it won't be learned, no matter what, it won't. Next time will be just the same. Only a few fanbois will realize the truth about developers today, but each one will be replaced by 5 new 14yo fanbois with renewed energy and increased devotion for some guy like Tasos or Mark Jacobs. It's written in stone.
Good points.
But Darkfall is still important to the genre, even it it's only a beacon for small game companies who plug away for years and years and years (what was it? seven or eight years?).
The odds are good it will fail, but... I will still call it a success when it releases. A year ago I would have bet against any chance of it releasing.
Well one thing is for certain: The last few MMO debacles could have been avoided if they had held off their release until the game had enough time to be right. Darkfall has certainly taken its time to make sure it is the way Tasos wants it to be. We can't have it both ways.
Darkfall’s failure will be a lesson to the MMORPG Community. We'll see which lesson Aventurine is going to teach in a little more than a month. The quesiton is whether the lesson WILL BE LEARNED.
The 'community' is too stupid to learn any lesson no matter how often it is taught.
Yes, it won't be learned, no matter what, it won't. Next time will be just the same. Only a few fanbois will realize the truth about developers today, but each one will be replaced by 5 new 14yo fanbois with renewed energy and increased devotion for some guy like Tasos or Mark Jacobs. It's written in stone.
Good points.
But Darkfall is still important to the genre, even it it's only a beacon for small game companies who plug away for years and years and years (what was it? seven or eight years?).
The odds are good it will fail, but... I will still call it a success when it releases. A year ago I would have bet against any chance of it releasing.
Well one thing is for certain: The last few MMO debacles could have been avoided if they had held off their release until the game had enough time to be right. Darkfall has certainly taken its time to make sure it is the way Tasos wants it to be. We can't have it both ways.
That is not possible, unless you have unlimited funds.
Even Darkfall will at some point have to release the game, or shut down development, unless the entire Greek economy is supporting the development of Darkfall.
Money is finite, and you can't develop a game with no money. When the money runs out, the game is finished whether it's ready or not.
It's not just a matter of deciding to release now, or in a few years. It's a matter of when your budget runs out.
Darkfall’s failure will be a lesson to the MMORPG Community. We'll see which lesson Aventurine is going to teach in a little more than a month. The quesiton is whether the lesson WILL BE LEARNED.
The 'community' is too stupid to learn any lesson no matter how often it is taught.
Yes, it won't be learned, no matter what, it won't. Next time will be just the same. Only a few fanbois will realize the truth about developers today, but each one will be replaced by 5 new 14yo fanbois with renewed energy and increased devotion for some guy like Tasos or Mark Jacobs. It's written in stone.
Good points.
But Darkfall is still important to the genre, even it it's only a beacon for small game companies who plug away for years and years and years (what was it? seven or eight years?).
The odds are good it will fail, but... I will still call it a success when it releases. A year ago I would have bet against any chance of it releasing.
Well one thing is for certain: The last few MMO debacles could have been avoided if they had held off their release until the game had enough time to be right. Darkfall has certainly taken its time to make sure it is the way Tasos wants it to be. We can't have it both ways.
That is not possible, unless you have unlimited funds.
Even Darkfall will at some point have to release the game, or shut down development, unless the entire Greek economy is supporting the development of Darkfall.
Money is finite, and you can't develop a game with no money. When the money runs out, the game is finished whether it's ready or not.
It's not just a matter of deciding to release now, or in a few years. It's a matter of when your budget runs out.
Not as true as you think considering they have goverment funding/backing.
That is not possible, unless you have unlimited funds. Even Darkfall will at some point have to release the game, or shut down development, unless the entire Greek economy is supporting the development of Darkfall. Money is finite, and you can't develop a game with no money. When the money runs out, the game is finished whether it's ready or not. It's not just a matter of deciding to release now, or in a few years. It's a matter of when your budget runs out.
It's entirely possible if you understand project management. This is the time we have. This is the resources we have. This is what we can deliver in that timeframe with those resources. The problem is most game producers haven't a clue how to manage time and resources. Big on "vision" shit on delivery.
That's the same thing I said.
The original poster is saying, doesn't matter, if you spend 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, whatever, if the game isn't ready you don't release it, and that's what the DF team is doing.
They're simply not making the mistake of other developers, and releasing to early, because they are smarter, and they know they should wait till the game is ready.
That is baloney. They simply have the time their budget allows, like all other games.
No developer starts out and goes, ok, we've got X millions of dollars. Let's spend it all in 5 years, but only finish half the game. Everyone get that memo? Ok, now get to work. But remember, we can only finish half the game before the money runs out, so don 't work to hard or effeciently.
Also, no developer has the luxury of saying, OK, we spent all the money we had during the last 5 years, but the game is only half finished. But, we're smart so we aren't going to release the game right now. Please give us money for another 5 years. Please?
Doesn't work that way.
But if DF is a government funded project, then it can do that perhaps. But not because the developers are better, smarter than others, because they have a government supporting them. All Developers would do the same if they had government funding.
That is not possible, unless you have unlimited funds. Even Darkfall will at some point have to release the game, or shut down development, unless the entire Greek economy is supporting the development of Darkfall. Money is finite, and you can't develop a game with no money. When the money runs out, the game is finished whether it's ready or not. It's not just a matter of deciding to release now, or in a few years. It's a matter of when your budget runs out.
It's entirely possible if you understand project management. This is the time we have. This is the resources we have. This is what we can deliver in that timeframe with those resources. The problem is most game producers haven't a clue how to manage time and resources. Big on "vision" shit on delivery.
That's the same thing I said.
The original poster is saying, doesn't matter, if you spend 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, whatever, if the game isn't ready you don't release it, and that's what the DF team is doing.
They're simply not making the mistake of other developers, and releasing to early, because they are smarter, and they know they should wait till the game is ready.
That is baloney. They simply have the time their budget allows, like all other games.
No developer starts out and goes, ok, we've got X millions of dollars. Let's spend it all in 5 years, but only finish half the game. Everyone get that memo? Ok, now get to work. But remember, we can only finish half the game before the money runs out, so don 't work to hard or effeciently.
Also, no developer has the luxury of saying, OK, we spent all the money we had during the last 5 years, but the game is only half finished. But, we're smart so we aren't going to release the game right now. Please give us money for another 5 years. Please?
Doesn't work that way.
But if DF is a government funded project, then it can do that perhaps. But not because the developers are better, smarter than others, because they have a government supporting them. All Developers would do the same if they had government funding.
Problem is a lot of Developers don't have a clue. They tell there publishers and those funding the project that it will be ready xx/xx/xxxx and you will see this kind of return.
Well guess what, when xx/xx/xxxx comes around and they aren't ready the pressure starts. Eventualy they have to release, because they said this is when they told everyone they would see a return on there investment ect.
Its really two different worlds. You have some players that go one way, some go the other, and others live on both planets.
Recently, the themepark world has been crawling with "new" MMO's. The people who like those games have been ecstatic, they are in heaving with the news of ST:TOR and others. They actually like a WoW clone.
The sandbox world has been dead. Sure, we have had a couple new things. EVE was good for a while. The sandbox world has had 1 really good game, in the same time the themepark world has had like 12.
Its been way to long that the sandbox players have been forced to live in the themepark world. I'm hoping Darkfall will bring us new life, at least for a while.
The two worlds really aren't comparable. Themeparkers are going to like themeparks. Sandboxers are going to like sandboxes. Darkfall may or may not be revolutionary, but its not going to touch WoW any more than EVE did. We hated themepark, and they will hate us.
For those that like both worlds, this must all seem a little silly.....
My 2 cents, I can't wait for Darkfall, it had better deliver cause I don't want another roller coaster.
Comments
Doesnt one euro = about 2 UD dollars?
no thank god.
right now it is 1 euro = 1.296 dollars
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
I hope this game does well for many reasons i wont get into here.......if it releases. Im one of the ppl sitting back waiting to see what will happen. Ill give it a try but personally im tired of fantasy mmo's in general and Earthrise will be my next sandbox pvp game ill be playing.
Darkfall does have lot of things going for it and I hope it succeeds. I'll raise a beer to all the Darkfall fans who have stood by this game come jan 22. (again if it releases) ,but i'll wait for the USA release.
Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR.
Playing EVE Online and AOC.
Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD
As a avid mmorpg fan since first logging into UO back in 97, I can honestly say I have seen and played them all and long for a game that returns the gerne to its roots.
As far as time commitments, much has changed for me over the last 11 years since I got into this hobby. I have a career now rather than a job, I have a family of my own and all the trapping that go along with such. I can certainly relate to and appreciate the comments made here regarding how the DF model no longer fits many an adults busy lifestyle. In the past I have pounded the same drum myself, I wont deny it. That being said, with 11 years worth of MMO's behind me, what is lost making games ever more accessible far outweighs that which we gain.
For my entertainment dollar I will gladly experience a deeper / richer gaming environment with less time to do it in than visa-versa.
As far has the open hostility to a FFA PVP environment goes; I am going to go out on a limb and bluntly state something thats sure to cause an uproar and I have never seen posted.
A truly dynamic and interactive world needs victims.
Shocking isn't it?
The scandal!
The horror!
It doesn't have to be (and I certainly hope it isn't) me every night. Nor does it have to be you. But unfortunately it must be someone. Some weeks we all may feel that we have gotten far more than our fair share. We can only hope that its spread out enough to where the good of the game makes it worth suffering the bad.
Before you flame me and write me off, please keep in mind I do not say this as a player killer. In fact I am quite the opposite, I have always been in the anti-pk camp, and will freely admit to never being a very good one. I can tell you I have taken far more dirt naps than I have ever doled out. I have lost countless hours of game time over the years so some 12 year old could feel "manly" at my expense. (Please excuse the blatant stereotype)
I was there in Kazolas Tavern making stools every night after the griefers came in and reduced the existing ones to kindling "because they could". (You younguns ask some of the old timers to explain that one)
So if the above is true why on earth would I support FFA PvP with full looting?
Because every good story needs a worthy villain.
Because it takes all kinds to make a world.
Because it provides real causes to champion.
Because it supports a healthy game economy.
Because it makes crafting truly worthwhile.
Because it inspires passion in the community.
Because it instills comradery among the player base.
Because it forces you to think about your actions.
Because your reputation now truly means something.
Because the alternative is raiding or theme parks.
I think I could do that all night, but you get the point I hope. No theme park game can do those things to the same degree. No dev team can write a back story to enstill that kind of passion in its users. Hell Speilberg couldn't write that back story!
I support FFA PvP because what is lost far outweighs that which we gain.
The question then becomes how do you sell;
"Come play our game and be a victim! (occasionally)
I don't know. I don't think you do. If your a developer and you have someone in marketing that knows how , make him or her a full partner.
And thats my biggest fear for Darkfall (or any game like it). Without people like me AND the big mean griefer it will never realize its potential. If folks like myself do not fight to keep it from becoming a griefers paradise then thats all it will ever be. It is in that very struggle that it becomes what its meant to be.
If Darkfall delivers on all its promises and bombs it will not be because Aventurine failed their fans.
It will be because the fans natural tendency to take the path of least resistance failed Aventurine.
And that would be a shame.
Success or failure, the outcome of Darkfall is important, that's why I'm bothering to follow it.
If Darkfall succeeds Developers will learn that they don’t need a proven history of making games, communicating with your community during development, lifting the NDA months before release and extensive public beta testing with thousands of players.
If Darkfall fails the MMORPG Community will learn that they should demand Developers present proof rather only offering years of hype before believing anything no matter how much players might want a game to revolutionize the genre.
Darkfall’s success will be a lesson to Developers. Darkfall’s failure will be a lesson to the MMORPG Community.
We'll see which lesson Aventurine is going to teach in a little more than a month. The quesiton is whether the lesson WILL BE LEARNED.
The 'community' is too stupid to learn any lesson no matter how often it is taught.
The 'community' is too stupid to learn any lesson no matter how often it is taught.
Yes, it won't be learned, no matter what, it won't. Next time will be just the same. Only a few fanbois will realize the truth about developers today, but each one will be replaced by 5 new 14yo fanbois with renewed energy and increased devotion for some guy like Tasos or Mark Jacobs. It's written in stone.
Very well said. I'm glad you found this worthy of your second post in years
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
"If a sandbox game like Darkfall is financially successful, it will send a message to developers that not only is there a market for sandbox MMOs, but there is money to be made in innovation."
Well, financially successfuly presumably means the MMO stays running and in profit. Even so called failures running with around 150k subs can be classed as "financially successful" surely?
"Whether you believe that Tasos will deliver what he has been promising us for years or not, before you jump on bashing bandwagon, stop and think about how a successful Darkfall will affect the MMORPG genre."
This whole thread has a similar feeling to what was around just before AoC released, so much was promised and alot has still never materialised. Even in the developer vids when we were promised "massive battles with hundreds of people" right up until launch when it turned out to have a limit of 80.
I hope Darkfall turns out to be the golden chalice you all think it will be, I really do, but I think you all need to be realistic. Just seems like the same old PR, Dev, deja vu we have before every singlt MMO launch...
The 'community' is too stupid to learn any lesson no matter how often it is taught.
Yes, it won't be learned, no matter what, it won't. Next time will be just the same. Only a few fanbois will realize the truth about developers today, but each one will be replaced by 5 new 14yo fanbois with renewed energy and increased devotion for some guy like Tasos or Mark Jacobs. It's written in stone.
Good points.
But Darkfall is still important to the genre, even it it's only a beacon for small game companies who plug away for years and years and years (what was it? seven or eight years?).
The odds are good it will fail, but... I will still call it a success when it releases. A year ago I would have bet against any chance of it releasing.
The 'community' is too stupid to learn any lesson no matter how often it is taught.
Yes, it won't be learned, no matter what, it won't. Next time will be just the same. Only a few fanbois will realize the truth about developers today, but each one will be replaced by 5 new 14yo fanbois with renewed energy and increased devotion for some guy like Tasos or Mark Jacobs. It's written in stone.
Good points.
But Darkfall is still important to the genre, even it it's only a beacon for small game companies who plug away for years and years and years (what was it? seven or eight years?).
The odds are good it will fail, but... I will still call it a success when it releases. A year ago I would have bet against any chance of it releasing.
Well one thing is for certain: The last few MMO debacles could have been avoided if they had held off their release until the game had enough time to be right. Darkfall has certainly taken its time to make sure it is the way Tasos wants it to be. We can't have it both ways.
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
The 'community' is too stupid to learn any lesson no matter how often it is taught.
Yes, it won't be learned, no matter what, it won't. Next time will be just the same. Only a few fanbois will realize the truth about developers today, but each one will be replaced by 5 new 14yo fanbois with renewed energy and increased devotion for some guy like Tasos or Mark Jacobs. It's written in stone.
Good points.
But Darkfall is still important to the genre, even it it's only a beacon for small game companies who plug away for years and years and years (what was it? seven or eight years?).
The odds are good it will fail, but... I will still call it a success when it releases. A year ago I would have bet against any chance of it releasing.
Well one thing is for certain: The last few MMO debacles could have been avoided if they had held off their release until the game had enough time to be right. Darkfall has certainly taken its time to make sure it is the way Tasos wants it to be. We can't have it both ways.
That is not possible, unless you have unlimited funds.
Even Darkfall will at some point have to release the game, or shut down development, unless the entire Greek economy is supporting the development of Darkfall.
Money is finite, and you can't develop a game with no money. When the money runs out, the game is finished whether it's ready or not.
It's not just a matter of deciding to release now, or in a few years. It's a matter of when your budget runs out.
The 'community' is too stupid to learn any lesson no matter how often it is taught.
Yes, it won't be learned, no matter what, it won't. Next time will be just the same. Only a few fanbois will realize the truth about developers today, but each one will be replaced by 5 new 14yo fanbois with renewed energy and increased devotion for some guy like Tasos or Mark Jacobs. It's written in stone.
Good points.
But Darkfall is still important to the genre, even it it's only a beacon for small game companies who plug away for years and years and years (what was it? seven or eight years?).
The odds are good it will fail, but... I will still call it a success when it releases. A year ago I would have bet against any chance of it releasing.
Well one thing is for certain: The last few MMO debacles could have been avoided if they had held off their release until the game had enough time to be right. Darkfall has certainly taken its time to make sure it is the way Tasos wants it to be. We can't have it both ways.
That is not possible, unless you have unlimited funds.
Even Darkfall will at some point have to release the game, or shut down development, unless the entire Greek economy is supporting the development of Darkfall.
Money is finite, and you can't develop a game with no money. When the money runs out, the game is finished whether it's ready or not.
It's not just a matter of deciding to release now, or in a few years. It's a matter of when your budget runs out.
Not as true as you think considering they have goverment funding/backing.
It's entirely possible if you understand project management. This is the time we have. This is the resources we have. This is what we can deliver in that timeframe with those resources. The problem is most game producers haven't a clue how to manage time and resources. Big on "vision" shit on delivery.
That's the same thing I said.
The original poster is saying, doesn't matter, if you spend 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, whatever, if the game isn't ready you don't release it, and that's what the DF team is doing.
They're simply not making the mistake of other developers, and releasing to early, because they are smarter, and they know they should wait till the game is ready.
That is baloney. They simply have the time their budget allows, like all other games.
No developer starts out and goes, ok, we've got X millions of dollars. Let's spend it all in 5 years, but only finish half the game. Everyone get that memo? Ok, now get to work. But remember, we can only finish half the game before the money runs out, so don 't work to hard or effeciently.
Also, no developer has the luxury of saying, OK, we spent all the money we had during the last 5 years, but the game is only half finished. But, we're smart so we aren't going to release the game right now. Please give us money for another 5 years. Please?
Doesn't work that way.
But if DF is a government funded project, then it can do that perhaps. But not because the developers are better, smarter than others, because they have a government supporting them. All Developers would do the same if they had government funding.
It's entirely possible if you understand project management. This is the time we have. This is the resources we have. This is what we can deliver in that timeframe with those resources. The problem is most game producers haven't a clue how to manage time and resources. Big on "vision" shit on delivery.
That's the same thing I said.
The original poster is saying, doesn't matter, if you spend 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, whatever, if the game isn't ready you don't release it, and that's what the DF team is doing.
They're simply not making the mistake of other developers, and releasing to early, because they are smarter, and they know they should wait till the game is ready.
That is baloney. They simply have the time their budget allows, like all other games.
No developer starts out and goes, ok, we've got X millions of dollars. Let's spend it all in 5 years, but only finish half the game. Everyone get that memo? Ok, now get to work. But remember, we can only finish half the game before the money runs out, so don 't work to hard or effeciently.
Also, no developer has the luxury of saying, OK, we spent all the money we had during the last 5 years, but the game is only half finished. But, we're smart so we aren't going to release the game right now. Please give us money for another 5 years. Please?
Doesn't work that way.
But if DF is a government funded project, then it can do that perhaps. But not because the developers are better, smarter than others, because they have a government supporting them. All Developers would do the same if they had government funding.
Problem is a lot of Developers don't have a clue. They tell there publishers and those funding the project that it will be ready xx/xx/xxxx and you will see this kind of return.
Well guess what, when xx/xx/xxxx comes around and they aren't ready the pressure starts. Eventualy they have to release, because they said this is when they told everyone they would see a return on there investment ect.
Does anyone have a link with information regarding the government funding? I remember seeing something about it a long time ago.
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Sandbox players in a themepark world.
Its really two different worlds. You have some players that go one way, some go the other, and others live on both planets.
Recently, the themepark world has been crawling with "new" MMO's. The people who like those games have been ecstatic, they are in heaving with the news of ST:TOR and others. They actually like a WoW clone.
The sandbox world has been dead. Sure, we have had a couple new things. EVE was good for a while. The sandbox world has had 1 really good game, in the same time the themepark world has had like 12.
Its been way to long that the sandbox players have been forced to live in the themepark world. I'm hoping Darkfall will bring us new life, at least for a while.
The two worlds really aren't comparable. Themeparkers are going to like themeparks. Sandboxers are going to like sandboxes. Darkfall may or may not be revolutionary, but its not going to touch WoW any more than EVE did. We hated themepark, and they will hate us.
For those that like both worlds, this must all seem a little silly.....
My 2 cents, I can't wait for Darkfall, it had better deliver cause I don't want another roller coaster.