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Blogger's Thoughts on LotRO
leinad312
Member UncommonPosts: 319
So I've been researching the game, and it sounds like it just might be what I'm looking for as a casual-friendly MMO. However, I did find a blog post that highlights certain negative aspects related to the soloability of the game. To summarize: the author's opinion is that lotro is basically a single player game with multiplayer support, where people only group with their core friends.
Right now I'm playing FFXI, where grouping is necessary to accomplish anything. However I like being able to log in, solo a bit, and log off whenever I see fit. Soloablity was one aspect I liked about WoW, although I did duo/group alot. Being able to solo is great, but not to the point where it essentially becomes a single player game with an online community.
So my question is: What are your experiences/opinions on the soloability of lotro, and whether it is beneficial or detrimental to group play?
Here is the text copied from the blog at http://www.mymmostore.net/lotro-single-player-game-mostly:
"I will keep this short and to the point. No I don’t 'hate' MoM or LOTRO.
Usually I am all for solo content being a semi-casual player and only having about 20 to 25 hours a week to dedicate to any gaming activity however Mines of Moria goes too far.
The focus on 3 man with few 6 man groups or quests (besides the very end game) is simply discouraging. In my guild the result has been that the core group of friends now exclusively group with each other and everyone else needs to fend for themselves. I'm leaving that guild today, been there half a year and this expansion really shut down any inclusion of non-core pal group people into groups. Sure I can solo but there are many single player games far better to do that in.
Yes, you can solo all the way up in MoM but it takes a lot longer. Groups help make the grinding faster but since there's no real need to do so regularly the game, in my opinion, fails at creating a setting that promotes people grouping together.
I hope this changes. I’m a middle aged adult (38), I have played a ton of MMOGS, this is the only one I play currently. I have seen much in the area of online games. LOTRO by far has more potential then what has come before, however it has essentially been a single player game with a few periods of milti-player gaming.
I really hope that can change."
Playing - FFXIV, ESO
Played - FFXI, WoW, Lineage 2, Guild Wars, Aion, SWToR, LotRO, GW2, TERA, Rift, ArcheAge, TSW
Comments
You can solo just fine, I have friends who got to 50 without ever / only groupping a few times.
And its fun playing WITH a group, and theres many group quests etc so...
___________________
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I wouldnt trust that blog at all lotro is a very community friendly game, where i never group with my friends or kinsmen but always can find a group within minutes to group with just by using lff chat
I would definatly recomend this game the trial gives a great impression of it except dont excpect combat or the story to pick up untill around level thirty
Lotro is my #1 game, but the blogger has some valid observations.
My kin almost doubled in size right before Moria. We're pretty active and acquaintances from Rift runs were leaving less active kins to join ours.
But when Moria released, the social aspect of our kin did fragment quite a bit with the hard core orginals sprinting to 60, leaving the casual guys lost in Morias darkness (currently three characters between 51-53).
I guess if you want to enjoy the new additions to the game while keeping it social, work on the new classes. I'm more apt to find a group in the Lone Lands or North Downs on my Warden & Rune Keeper than I can on my Hunter standing in some crevice in Moria.
The game really can be what ever you want it to be. I cant speak for every server but my server (Gladden-US) has a great population and aside from raiding I dont really group with my kin that much.
I dont have a problem finding groups for upper level stuff 50+ and lower level stuff 20- but in between can be a hassle sometimes just like in any current MMO.
On days when I just feel like playing solo and not being chatty I can level just fine or sometimes I will just craft for an hour or so. Other days I wanna run dungeons and rarely have a problem getting a group but like others have said you can solo to max level.
I did a good mix of both as I hate to leave group quests behind myself but even in the mid levels 20-45 I can usually find the group I want within an hour or so if I am patient.
Unfortunatly the best PVE, (IMO anyway) you will need a group for which is the Epic questline which spans the entire game. Some of it is solo but most you will need a group for. Other than that its all in how you wanna play the game and the parts of the Epic story you have to do are soloable.
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I think a few kinships have gone through this grouping anxiety but honestly it's not the fault of the game. I have found in the past that every time the level cap increases it divides guilds/kinships for a time based on level -- it's in your face who's playing hardcore and who's not. Why would the 60's stop doing their content to group wiht the 51's? Sure it's fun to go back and help but with new content the focus tends to get lost in seeing new stuff that social spread in the kinship gets hurt.
Is LOTRO extremely soloable? yes just like WoW is -- and it's a good attribute.
Does that make it a solo game with an online community? Absolutely not. There are many quests that are impossible to do solo -- yes the focus went away from 6 man instances but let's face it -- there were at least 10 6 man instances for level 45 to 50 pre: MoM -- 1 6 man instance is added for around level 55 with 6 extremely fun and dynamic 6 man instances for level 60 -- this does not include all the major fellowship quests along the way as well as small fellowship quests, 3 man instances etc. I have no idea how this game by design could facilitate grouping any better!
I"ve personally found a really great community in LOTRO -- many times when my wife and I are working on a quest we'll see someone soloing the same content and I ask if they are on the same quest and if they say yes we invite em in to the fellowship. I've never had someone refuse. There are LFF channels used regularly, most servors have a player generated GLFF channel, kinships, freinds lists -- I have no idea what more the blogger wants!!!!
Sounds like his issue was not so much the game but his kinship having a core group that always fellows together -- my advice to him would be to forge new friendships find people to group with -- use the in game channels, and fellowshipping features -- social practices in game are like RL if you hang out at the wall in a dance and don't ask anyone to dance with you -- no one will dance with you. It takes effort, and you'll find friends, rejections, mean people etc on the way because every type of person plays MMO's.
Give the game a try -- I think you'll like what you see! Incidentally the toughest and most fun content in game always requires a group. Lotro tries to stay clear from force grouping, but they haven't done it at the expense of very epic encounters.
LoTRO is not casual friendly. Most quest chains have fellowship quests in them, and it is really hard to find fellowships for non MoM areas. And MoM has new devices in it to encourage grinding (like legendary weapons which only gain xp from killing things), so it is not any better.
There's been some great replies in here, I'll most likely give the game a try soon. Although the last post sounds a bit discouraging lol.
Playing - FFXIV, ESO
Played - FFXI, WoW, Lineage 2, Guild Wars, Aion, SWToR, LotRO, GW2, TERA, Rift, ArcheAge, TSW
LoTRO is not casual friendly. Most quest chains have fellowship quests in them, and it is really hard to find fellowships for non MoM areas. And MoM has new devices in it to encourage grinding (like legendary weapons which only gain xp from killing things), so it is not any better.
That's true and not true.
The game IS casual friendly. However there are parts of it that aren't. To that end, I have only gotten to chapter 8 because I'm just not going to go looking for a group for that stuff. If it happens great.
But I can play and do quests and level my character and explore and really have a great time on my own schedule.
Like many games, if you want to experience all that it has to offer then you are going to have to group. But if you are satisfied with a slightly different experience then that works as well.
And in the end, you can get a group. You might have to work a bit harder, maybe even post on the forums and say I'm looking for this chapter, will be on this time, who else needs it. Chances are someone will.
That's how I usually group. just wait until someone is yelling for it and If I'm not in the middle of anything I join.
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LoTRO is not casual friendly. Most quest chains have fellowship quests in them, and it is really hard to find fellowships for non MoM areas. And MoM has new devices in it to encourage grinding (like legendary weapons which only gain xp from killing things), so it is not any better.
Bullshit. I've had no problems finding fellowships at any level of play on Landroval.
LotR is a very casual friendly game indeed
However, some times you're forced to get into party to complete a quest. Every chapter in the epic quest (the actual game that is) forces you to get a party to proceed to the next part of the story. Also some of the regular quests involve parties as well, since you need to kill so called "epic" mobs, which are pretty hard (not compeltely impossible though) to solo
I know countless people who have given up on the epic quests because they can't get fellowships to do them. I have a lifetime sub, but I stopped playing for about 6 months because I found it too frustrating. I am still only on book 10 out of 15 pre-expansion books, and when you consider that I have had had a sub since beta, that is a statement in itself.
I was hoping MoM would be better, but it is rather disappointing so far.
I know countless people who have given up on the epic quests because they can't get fellowships to do them. I have a lifetime sub, but I stopped playing for about 6 months because I found it too frustrating. I am still only on book 10 out of 15 pre-expansion books, and when you consider that I have had had a sub since beta, that is a statement in itself.
I was hoping MoM would be better, but it is rather disappointing so far.
Whoa, did I accidentally jump threads? OP complains of NOT ENOUGH group content, and this post complains of TOO MUCH dependency on groups. Just shows the sheer impossiblity of pleasing everyone. The epic quest line does in fact require groups, but it's not a mandatory part of the game. You can level to 50, experience most of Moria and get to level 60 completely solo. However, this is an MMO. Anyone who wants to solo 100% of the time should play Fallout 3 or any of the other excellent single-player RPGs. You can pretty much play Lotro in whatever style you like, just don't expect to see everything unless you're willing to group.
When Lotro was initially released, there was not enough solo content - people complained, and regions were added that allowed soloing all the way to level cap. With Moria they have released the 3-man instances to make getting a group easier. I'm sure they will add more 6-man content and raids in future book updates.
That's true and not true.
The game IS casual friendly. However there are parts of it that aren't. To that end, I have only gotten to chapter 8 because I'm just not going to go looking for a group for that stuff. If it happens great.
But I can play and do quests and level my character and explore and really have a great time on my own schedule.
Like many games, if you want to experience all that it has to offer then you are going to have to group. But if you are satisfied with a slightly different experience then that works as well.
And in the end, you can get a group. You might have to work a bit harder, maybe even post on the forums and say I'm looking for this chapter, will be on this time, who else needs it. Chances are someone will.
That's how I usually group. just wait until someone is yelling for it and If I'm not in the middle of anything I join.
That pretty much true. LoTRO has a bit of something for everyone. Lots of solo content, some grouping content for 3 to 6 players and a couple of raid dungeons. I prefer a mixture of leveling myself, about 80% solo 20% group. Since good gear is available from crafting, solo quest rewards, group quest rewards, raid quest rewards or faction rewards it is not like you are locked into any one play style.
That is why LoTRO is so popular and appeals to such a variety of players, it does not force you into a box. Of course that is why other games players love to troll it so much too I guess LOL
I miss DAoC
No - the OP was asking how much group content and solo content there is. He was not saying there is too much solo content - just asking if there is. I would say, no, there is not too much solo content.
The problem with the epic quests isn't so much that they need a group. It is the amount of time they need. Quite a few of them take 3 hours or so to complete and add to that the time taken to form a group, and you have a fairly hefty time commitment to make in one go. I have a little girl asleep upstairs and I just can't afford that much time in one go, which is why I have still not progressed to more than 2/3 of the pre-expansion epic quests.
You are right that you can solo to level 50. I didn't actually - I did spend quite a lot of time in groups. But this is Lord of the Rings. The player base has a legitimate and reasonable desire to be a part of the story of the rings, and that means the epic quests. Fair enough, they could have grouped content in each book to give an epic feel, but I think they really went over the top by making the grouped content such a bloody time sink.
The game is not casual friendly.
And let's be honest, the expansion is just a bit meh.
No - the OP was asking how much group content and solo content there is. He was not saying there is too much solo content - just asking if there is. I would say, no, there is not too much solo content.
The problem with the epic quests isn't so much that they need a group. It is the amount of time they need. Quite a few of them take 3 hours or so to complete and add to that the time taken to form a group, and you have a fairly hefty time commitment to make in one go. I have a little girl asleep upstairs and I just can't afford that much time in one go, which is why I have still not progressed to more than 2/3 of the pre-expansion epic quests.
You are right that you can solo to level 50. I didn't actually - I did spend quite a lot of time in groups. But this is Lord of the Rings. The player base has a legitimate and reasonable desire to be a part of the story of the rings, and that means the epic quests. Fair enough, they could have grouped content in each book to give an epic feel, but I think they really went over the top by making the grouped content such a bloody time sink.
The game is not casual friendly.
And let's be honest, the expansion is just a bit meh.
What dont you like about the xpac? What Xpac added more in your opinion? What could they have done better?
It is an MMO and that means playing with other players. Would you pay 15 or 10 dollars a month if they gave a single player option at the log in screen?
Every MMO I have ever played I have had atleast a few times where I could not get a group for the exact quest I wanted but I just did something else instead until I could. If an Epic solo player experience is what you seek then MMO's would not be for you.
Try going to a store somewhere and ask for a ride home. If you just simply stand there and dont ask anyone you will not get a ride. Also if no one is going in your direction you will probably not get a ride either. That is life and real life players play this game so you cant expect people to always go out of their way for you.
Hope this did not come across as me bashing you I am just trying to maybe explain it in a different way.
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I bought the game when MOM came out, although I didn't buy the expansion. I play solo most of the time. I like it. When I do want to complete a fellowship quest, of which there are many, and the lewts are phat, I have not had any problems.
I have a level 22 champion and it's been fun. Most of the people who have grouped with me are on their alt's. It's nice cause they already know the quests. They have been friendly. This had been my experiance.,
Can't you read? I am not complaining that it has group content. I am just saying that it is not casual friendly due to the large required time investment to complete epic quests (even if you can get a group).
And what do you like about the expansion? It has no new ideas - just the same old stuff. It is buggy, ill thought out (the quests are awful) and expects you to grind. To give you an example, right at the start when you get your legendary weapon, you are then expected to raise it to level 10 before continuing with the quests or being allowed into Moria - since it only gains xp by killing things, this is enforced grind.
And Turbine has still not realised that people are sick of quests like "kill 14 blackbirds", and quest chains with "kill 14 half-orcs", then "kill another 14 half-orcs" and finally "collect 14 relics" which just happen to be dropped by the same half-orcs (couldn't the quest giver tell you at the start that he wants 14 relics so that you can collect them as you kill the first 14?).
And then there is that quest to find the dwarf on the mountain. You have to find the goat he killed first - it is not good enough to find his actual body. Apparently that isn't good enough to convince his friend he is dead. Oh no, goat first, and only then his body.
Can't you read? I am not complaining that it has group content. I am just saying that it is not casual friendly due to the large required time investment to complete epic quests (even if you can get a group).
And what do you like about the expansion? It has no new ideas - just the same old stuff. It is buggy, ill thought out (the quests are awful) and expects you to grind. To give you an example, right at the start when you get your legendary weapon, you are then expected to raise it to level 10 before continuing with the quests or being allowed into Moria - since it only gains xp by killing things, this is enforced grind.
And Turbine has still not realised that people are sick of quests like "kill 14 blackbirds", and quest chains with "kill 14 half-orcs", then "kill another 14 half-orcs" and finally "collect 14 relics" which just happen to be dropped by the same half-orcs (couldn't the quest giver tell you at the start that he wants 14 relics so that you can collect them as you kill the first 14?).
And then there is that quest to find the dwarf on the mountain. You have to find the goat he killed first - it is not good enough to find his actual body. Apparently that isn't good enough to convince his friend he is dead. Oh no, goat first, and only then his body.
I see a lot of ppl like you bitchign about quests. Please give us a few example of quests that would be good to you?
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
By your definition of casual friendly there are no casual friendly MMOs. Every MMO I can possibly think of has some group oriented quests. LoTRO is the most casual friendly MMO I can think of since I regularly play it for 45 min before work or a hour before supper and feel like I have accomplished something with my character.
Considering that ever quest has to by nature be something that a character can accomplish. All quests will be either kill xxx creatures or travel to x spot since by design that is all any character in any MMO can do. If you do not like killing xxx creatures by some means or traveling to x spot to accomplish a task be it get something or talk to a NPC it would be best you find a new hobby.
Nothing is enforced in LoTRO you can log in , sit in the Prancing Pony and quaff virtual ale and smoke virtual tobacco all day if you wish. Or you can participate in whatever adventure or crafting you so choose.
What do I like about the new expansion. Duh... it contains the largest grand daddy of all dungeons.. Moria. I like the session play, the new three man group quests, the legacy system and at least one of the two new classes. I also think the out door area is one of the prettiest regions anyone ever designed in a MMO
and inside Moria is not exactly shabbby either
I miss DAoC
That is incredibly unimaginative of you. Away from the MMO culture which has developed in recent years, quests were never about kill x number of y. They were always about acheiving something. Finding the legendary sword, defeating the evil lich, rescuing the princess, stealing the dragon's treasure, or some other heroic activity.
Indeed, Bilbo's trip to the lonely mountain is just such a quest. Now, admitedly Bilbo's quest could not be done in a 45 minute play session, but it could be presented in such a way that a casual player could make steady progress towards the end goal.
As usual we are demoted to the lowest common demominator of what the games companies think their players can handle - incredibly dull "quests" with explicit instructions how each step must be performed to progress.
In the example I gave earlier of the Dwarf lost on the mountain - why wasn't I allowed to find his body first? Why did I have to find the goat, run back to the quest giver, then climb the mountain again to find the body before returning again to complete the quest? I can only see one reason - to stretch out the content, to slow us down in completion of quests so we won't run out of things to do so quickly. And that is, quite frankly, not good enough.
I disagree. In a story driven game the epic quest line (IMO) is required in order to get the full experience. Therefore grouping is a required aspect of the game. Now, if you're talking solely about getting to level cap then you are correct. But there is more to mmos than just getting to level cap.
That being said, it's very frustrating to be plugging along on the epic quest line, knocking out quests, having fun only to hit a brick wall when you suddenly need to round up 5 other people just to get over the next hurdle so you can continue.
On SOME servers finding groups is easier than others. If you play on a low pop server and are doing the epic quest line a year after release, you're probably beating your head against said wall trying to find groups.
The kill xxx mobs or travel to x npc style quests were implemented to MMO's as an alternative to mob kill grinding to level. Yes they are grinding -- just another form, but at least it's less boring than sitting on a zone wall and having a group member pull single mobs to the group to kill for endless hours. That's what MMO's used to have in them in order to level your character -- in fact I did that for years in Everquest. It was tolerable only because in the group you had many hours of fun social interactions with old friends or players you'd never met before. I encounter the same thing when I'm working on a quest that clearly another person is working on so I invite them in to my fellowship to accomplish the same goal -- we have a brief bit of fun together, start a friendship, or go our seperate ways.
Now what is being missed is the bigger picture -- back to everquest. There was a lore and story line that headed the general direction of the game that if you stepped back and looked at what was happenning you could immerse yourself in to. Actually the main reason to level your character is to participate in these stories. It takes effort and some imagination though to see it. There are quest lines in Moria where dwarves are studying the effects of certain mushrooms on orcs and mutant orcs etc etc. So you go on some kill xxx quests and pick up so many mushrooms quests in the process of the story line. HOwever if you *READ* the quests you will understand the story line.
Also intermixed in to these sub quest details are the epic story lines -- yes you have to grind your legendary up in levels (grinding is a necessity in games unless you can invent something better than kudos you're going to be a millionaire some day) however if you actually read the quest while you're doing that you learn about what the legendary weapons are the story behind them how they fit in to the lore and what the purpose of them is. You're also learning in volume 1 bk 1 that there is a new wave of dwarves attempting to retake Moria and search for the remnant that Ballin led. There are some cute side quests during the story that take you in to a couple public instances that allow you to track a party of dwarves in one and find out some of the plans of the enemy in the other and what has happenned to the local wolves.
I could write on and on -- but if you READ YOUR QUESTS and then piece them together you will find that there is nothing unimaginative at all about this expansion or the game up until now. There have been numerous stories and sub stories goals big and small to accomplish in this game -- even in Bilbo's epic journey to slay the dragon the party had to kill spiders, orcs, etc along the way to get to there goal (sub grinding quests).
Lotro can be soloed in a similar manner to WoW. In other words you can quest and whatnot but the instances with the best gear need a group. Also the Epic storylines have one or two or three parts where you need a group.
That is the mechanics of it.
Socially, people in LOTRO are pretty casual and socialize normally. When I say socialize normally I mean they tend to have smallish Kinships(guilds,clans w/e) of friends who tend to stick together. That blog is correct in that a lot of grouping is often like 3 kinmates.
I have seen people "complain" about this in regards to LOTRO quite a bit recently. This strikes me as very strange and I think its source is forced grouping games like FFX! or EQ or DDO. Human naturally congragate and socialize into small groups of close friends of about 5-10. Some have satellite groups they know of and some have people who float between groups. But in general only people in large orgnaized social clubs have anything but that.
LOTRO is fairly casual. Therefore is does not put artificialy restrictions and bludgeons onto the players in regards to how they should socialize. Therefore they follow this natural pattern. It seems like many people from forced grouping games want everyone to feel like any chance to group with anyone is great because the game bludgeons them into that by rewarding their greed.
There is grouping in LOTRO so it can't be that they lament lack of group play. They even admit many people are grouping. Then they lash out at the solo play for the reason they don't get groups. Yet people are grouping . The whole argument makes no sense it contradicts itself. To me it says they suck at normal socialization and want strangers to feel like they should group for no other reason than personal gain rather than actually being a likeable and worthwhile person.
To be sure some smallish cliques of people are annoying and stuck up just like in high school. They feel secure in their small group of friends and don't feel the need to be civil or open to others But you get that no matter what. Froced grouping creates some real winners when it comes to being stuck or elitist.
I generally see quite a quite a bit of LFF chatter. People flow in and out of small informal groups pretty easily and quickly and on Landroval at least I have had many strangers try to be helpful. I have had a PUG in the level 30ish Garath Agamaur where the burglar we randomly invited asked a kinmate for some help to get a healer to help us. He even logged on his level 50 to help at a certain point.
Then later the two of them went off and did their own thing once we were done.
This is the natural way of things. People form cliques. There are tons of small 2-3 man fellowships running around doing stuff. Most of them are nice normal people some are a-holes. It is simply natural that they will stick together, but they are often glad to have another a long.
The way that people in forced grouping games think this is bad rings really big alarm bells in my head. That they want to make socialization forced and unnatural is not a good thing. That they go so far as to say soloing destroys the game and then simultaneously admit a lot of people run around in kinmate groups. Just show they are neurotic enough to ignore two contradicotry things.
The only reason people twist themselves into those kind of mental knots is out of fear. And in this case it is the fear that they might actually have to socialize for real rather than having the game do it for them.
They say its about community, but communities are made by people all the time with out developers forcing everyone to do stuff. The fact is they want people forced into a community because they cannot lead or make one themselves. Heck there is a very large bicyling club that formed spontaneously in my area and it has grown and grown into a club with 100s and 100s of people. I can ride my bike solo all day. Sometimes I do. But people prefer to do it in groups. And there advantages to the clubs. Safety on the roads, pre-made routes with a leader who knows the route, some company. Waht have you.
Clearly you don't need anything really to have a community form. Human do it all the time. Clearly there are tons of small clique-lie communities. So why are people from forced grouping games annoyed? Because they want a community where they need no social skills to be invited to groups.
They want to log in and get in a group as quick as possible. Nevermind whether the people are good or bad to play with. Then they say its about community. It that really a community? Anonymously getting with others mainly out of vested interest with very little regard to who they really are?
The only time you have that sort of stuff regularly is in forced grouping games. And forced grouping games are about personal gain, not community. Not matter what people say, they are fooling themselves. Thsi should be obvious since 90% of the drama in forced grouping games is the about the loot/xp that is generally only gotten in a group. Because otherwise the natural social breaks come into play. The lack freedom of being attached to other, the unpelasant unfamiliarity, the brittle pleasantries you don't need with friends.
LOTRO has strangers playing with each other regularly. But unless its an instance it is not always for that long. And a full group with the right make up of people can take a while to get together espeically if you lack a minstrel.
If you want to be playing in a group all the time and think solo play is just boring then play a forced grouping game or play City of Heroes. A game like LOTRO has plenty of grouping but it does not have so many groups that you can regularly get a full and well made one within 10 minutes of logging in.
But don't fool yourself into thinking this has anything to do with soloing. People don't normally rely on the kindness of strangers unless they are Blanche Dubois. And in forced grouping games strangers don't join your group because they are nice. They join because they need something. Only in City of Heroes do they tend to regularly join just for fun. And even there the carry over from class based games often interferes, such when you have 4 scrappers and then one says we need a defender. No you don't, you are a scrapper you kill shit and take names. The reason you joined a group is so that there is more shit to kill.
Is there more grouping in say DDO vs LOTRO (both made by turbine and sharing similar LFG interfaces). Yes there is more grouping. But groups tend to go by guild/kin in either one. DDO is a forced grouping game and LOTRO is a DIKU MMO like any oither. There is only one non-forced grouping game that has lots of groups and that is City of Heroes.
The reason grouping happens alot there is they do not have mos t of the barriers that DIKU MMO have. Instances scale so you don't need to wait around for the perfect makeup. And the more people you have the more mobs and to some extent for some people the more interesting the encounter. You don't need a defender or controller to "heal", heck many of them have no healing and their defensive buffs are better than most heals anyway. a team of 8 scrappers is fine. A team of 8 Defenbders is fine. A team with 7 defenders and 1 scrapper is fine. This make grouping have virutally zero burden and it also makes it so that 2 different 8 man teams can play alot different for that scrapper that was in the two different teams. You can start with 2 people do an instance and recruit up to 8 a long the way. And as you recruit you can simply do instances as you add more and more and you need not worry about the makeup that much. In generally with 8 people you can adjust tactics however you want to make up for whatever. Don't have a tank? Spread out the aggro.
LOTRO is sort of like City of Heroes in attitude but it is a DIKU MMO. You need a healer for an instance. You need a tank. It can be a pain in the ass. The content does not scale. having a full group help on a solo quest is trivial. Getting kinmates to help in an instance means you are more likely to get a minstrel.
Non of this has anything to do with soloability. It is just the typical forced grouper passive-agressive petty tyrant mind-set. They want more of "their" content. They want everyone to play their way. They believe that they only reason people group is because they are forced into it. Which is of course obviously blatantly untrue. People just don't wind up grouping anonymously and regularly like they want. They don't get waht they want they throw a tantrum. And then lash out at what is the obvious diametrically opposed thing, solo play.
But we know from the City of Heroes example that half what makes a forced grouping game "social" actually inhibits socializtaiont. Namely the forced roles. Requiring a healer and tank for each group makes creating a group far more burdensome. We all know this. We have all expereinced.
FFXI is a little differnt in the forced grouping games in that is has secondary professions. But in the end it still follows a similar mode. You are not socializting. You are grabbing people who can fill a need. You are interviewing for a quick temporary job.
City of Heroes got rid of the Job Interview (of course some people still do it that way, but its not necessary). And what happened? They have just as much grouping as DDO but absolutely no forcing of it. In fact City of Heroes is the most solo friendly MMO every created. You can solo almost everything and its impossible to run out of solo content.
So clearly it is not about solo content. In fact it is the complete reverse. It is about group content design. The fact is the EQ lineage DIKU MMO class model is cumbersome and forced grouping is unnatural and unpleasant. Yet the class roles are meant to be part of forced grouping. And to some extent are still used that way.
So what you are seeing is a two fold phenomenon. You are seeing people reverting to their normal mode of socialization when the forced grouping is taken. But they are still burdened by the pain in the ass part of class roles that is still enforced.
In the end for a player of a game like WoW or LOTRO they have to figure out whether what they want to accomplish is worth the pain in the ass of putting a group together. They will need to deal strangers who may be dickheads and they will need to advertise and find a person who can fill the rare roles in a competent manner.
Contrast that to City of Heroes, that pain in the ass part is taken out. If people are dickheads you can kick them or leave and still do whatever you want one way or the other way. If your healer is insufferable and you kick him, you are in deep shit in LOTRO/WoW. In City of Heroes the calculation is quite simple. You ask yourself do I want to group and then you ask/invite whoever else wants too. And all the while you do whatever you want.
In LOTRO/WoW or any game with required group roles and whatnot we all know that it is a whole other kettle of fish and often putting together a group is niether fun nor easy. So there is always a weighing of options and bother. You may want to group, but just not really feel like dealing with the pain in the ass of putting together a group. I have been soloing in CoH like this, had some guy send an invite and I accept without a problem. Because unless they are retards I kind of felt like grouping anyway and I don't really even need to know what they are doing or what the group make up is and we don't need to wait around, we can start doing stuff immediately even with just 2 people.
So while that blog has merit I think like many it is completely missing the point. The reason LOTRO is this way with spotty grouping is not because of solo content. Nor is it because of people socializing in what I think most would accept is a more normal socialization.
It is mostly because they have the groups setup with the burden of the forced grouping paradigm but took out the forced grouping incentives for a large part of the game (ie. other than instances). Its an ok model it works decently but its clunky and cumbersome and does not really live up to "what could be".
If you want to live up to your potential as a casual game with normal socialization you need to make grouping have almost no burden for creation and you need it to be fun. LOTRO grouping is fairly fun, but it shares the same burden of all forced grouping games.
When you take that burden out grouping becomes much more common. Just think about it, its meant to be casual. Why would casual players wait around 15 minutes for the "perfect" group? In CoH if there are 6 people in a zone who really want to group they can and they can form up instantly even if the are all scrappers its perfectly fine. In LOTRO if there are 6 people in a zone who really want to group but they are all hunters, they might get really screwed in certain instances, they can try it, but its pretty risky.
So people are far more cautious about making groups. People blame the solo content because naturally that detracts from the forced grouping. But in reality it is the group design.
Solo content is perfectly fine. I group in CoH specifically because it is more interesting than the solo content. It is also somewhat more xp, but my main motivation is because the spawns are more interesting and playing with other is more interesting.
The main thing that detracts from grouping in LOTRO and all games in its DIKU sub-genre is the thought of the pain in the ass of putting together and managing the group. Getting the group together is a pain, if someone bails in the middle you just wasted an hour, etc etc. Most of that is taken out of CoH. And when it is you suddenly realize why grouping is more rare in a game like WoW or LOTRO.
Solo content is fine for what it is. But when people are avoiding grouping even when they might want to, then you need to blame the group content/class role design.
In LOTRO if I have an hour to play I often avoid any grouping except with a kinmate or two. In CoH I do whatever I want, I literally do not feel like I have to worry about it. Someone invites with 30 minutes to go, I simply say "I only have 30 minutes is that ok?" Invariably the response is "That's fine we only have 4 a 5th for a bit will be great". Because they also do not need to worry. I finish out the instance and they move on. The instance scales, they just wanted more people because its fun and they are constantly adding whoever comes a long. In WoW or LOTRO if I said that and was not an easily replacable role they wouldn't take me. And that is perfectly understandable and niehter side feels good about it. Niether me or the person inviting.
or you can use crafted gear and get along just fine. In many cases the crafted stuff is better than the quested.
BTW can you say
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J/k ing of course
I miss DAoC
Wow kudos to gestalt11, that was an unbelievably well thought out post. You should use that as a basis for your thesis/dissertation on video game design lol.
Playing - FFXIV, ESO
Played - FFXI, WoW, Lineage 2, Guild Wars, Aion, SWToR, LotRO, GW2, TERA, Rift, ArcheAge, TSW