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My Impressions
Exclam
Member Posts: 72
A lot of people are saying that it is boring at the start, but I completely disagree. From the moment I logged on, I loved the game. The art direction of the first city is wonderful, it is truly gorgeous. The quests are far more engaging and unique than any other MMO I've played. There are a few "kill 10 x" quests, but they are not at all the majority (at least in the first area). What's funny is that I'm actually happy when I get a "kill 10 x" quest, because the combat is so much fun that it makes me even happier to have a specific reason to kill things.
Combat is never boring. A lot of people I see bashing it simply didn't get it. It definitely has more of a learning curve than most MMO's, and it doesn't do a whole lot in game towards explaining it, but, if you read the website and the manual before playing, it makes it a lot easier to get into. The fact that you don't have to press any numbers keys AT ALL if you don't want to (mouse scroll for switching skills, left click to use them) makes the game so much better. As soon as you memorize where you put your skills on the skill deck (which is highly customizable for different strategies), you rarely have to look away from the battle at all, which is good, because you need to be paying attention to dodging and positioning yourself for attacks.
The classes are truly unique, and none of them have a clearly defined role. There are no skill trees, but you choose which skills you get (I think, by max level, you'll be able to have all of them). The skill choice and setup of your skill deck can really determine your play style. For example, I made a Runemage, which is a spellcaster known for AOE damage. But, it also has a lot of melee skills. So, I took the melee skills and set my bar up in a way that allows me to be a melee spellcaster, and it's working very well so far. Half the fun is trying out new strategies and seeing if they work. Almost all the skills synergize in some way with each other, so the posibilities are practically limitless.
Haha, it would appear as if I've gotten a little carried away...well, I could say more, but I won't unless anyone has any specific questions.
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"We'll be saying a big hello to all intelligent lifeforms everywhere... and to everyone else out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together, guys!"
Comments
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I am an old school 3 button mouse person i cannot stand any of these new laser mice.Using the scroll wheel is a real pain as i only use two fingers and do not have one free in the middle to use the scroll,it would be too uncomfortable to use it that way.
Not sure about the beauty aspect,it looks good but really it is exactly the same looks as WOW buildings but a bunch of trees scattered around the fort/town.The quests you found different? they are exactly the same as any other game,nothing there at all.
There is not much diversity between the 3 classes at all.they all have ranged/moderate melee /heavy melee.I am sure there is more to the skill wheel than i caught on to,but making changes on the fly using default numbers is a POOR option and the scroll wheel is horrible for me as well.What i can see happening here is MANY players going into the unreal USER .ini and setting up key binds.
I did not find combat exciting at all,what i need is someone to explain the strategy,like give an example and explain it fully as if you were in combat.I had no problems with the bears be it in close as a rogue or kiting with the bow that seemed to fire whenever it felt like it lol.Maybe give me an example of how i could have fought the bear using the 2 skill sets/6 skills on the wheel i had?give me a blow by blow explanation as to how i could make it skillful?
BTW ,for those that don't know the skill wheel flips back and forth,so you get a shot with the one set then it rotates and uses a skill off of the second set.I only have two rows of 3 for a total of 6 skills,actually it may have been only 5 i think the ranged was on both wheels.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Alright, well, you're off on a few things. First thing is this: " it is exactly the same looks as WOW buildings". If there was any aspect of the art direction that is farther from WoW, at least in what you get to see initially, I would say it is the buildings. I don't know how to describe it, but they don't even remotely remind me of WoW. They are arranged very beautifully, and are designed in a clever, disfigured way.
As for the quests, it would appear as if you are simply looking at the objective and following it. If that is all that you do, then yes, the quests are similar in a lot of ways. What sets them apart is that the lore is actually engaging, often funny, and always unique. The first quest chain, though it only involves gathering and killing, is quite entertaining. You are sent by the general or whatever (I forget his name) to help out this farmer in need. After getting combat training, you are sent to the farm, only to find out that the farmer wants your help...picking turnips. This is funny and clever on its own, but, the plot thickens, making it even more interesting. When you return the turnips to the farmer, he finds a bite in one of them and accuses you of eating some of his turnips, only to realize that is was not you, but a small raccoon-like creature called a Tanuk. You are sent to kill some tanuk to stop them from eating his turnips. Upon killing them and returning their carcasses to the farmer, he is appalled by the fact that you actually brought the corpses back to him. He is then notified by you, however, that you found a strange bite mark in the leg of one of the Tanuks. The farmer concludes that the tanuks had gone crazy, due to bites from a rabid dog. You are sent to kill the rabid dog, which is your first real fight (every creature prior to this dies in one hit). That is where that quest chain ends, but there are countless other ones that are just genuinelly interesting.
The third thing you are wrong on is this: "There is not much diversity between the 3 classes at all". First of all, that is just false right off the bat. Upon character creation, every character gets the three basic attack skills, hack, slash, and shoot. But, you are then allowed to choose two skills from a list of four, each list specific to the class that you pick. Most of these skills are definitely not typical "ranged/moderate melee /heavy melee" attacks. You also mentioned that you had two rows of three on your skill bar. This shows that you didn't even get to level 5, which is when you choose your subclass for your archetype. These subclasses are very different from each other and provide a plethora of skills for you to choose from.
I agree that pressing the number keys on the fly to change skills is impracticle, but that wouldn't be a problem if you weren't refusing to use three fingers on your mouse to use the scroll wheel. Actually, you don't even need three fingers. I find what most people aren't getting is that, if you press the R key, the game controls just like an fps. In that case, you would only need two fingers on the mouse: one on the left click to execute skills, and one on the scroll wheel to switch skills. Since you said that "it might only be 5" skills on the skill deck, since "the ranged attack is on both rows", you clearly didn't realize that you can fully customize the skill deck to your advantage. You can put whatever skill wherever you want.
Since you asked, I'll give you a play by play on strategic fighting. I'll use my Trickster as an example, because it is currently my favorite class. Alright, so I see a boar that I want to kill, this is what I would do... I run up to the boar, unsheath my weapon (making sure I am in mouselook mode by pressing R beforehand), and execute the second skill on the first row of my skill deck, Side Step. This skill makes the creature I attack weak against melee attacks for a short period of time. It also decreases its Concentration by 3 (lowering its attack speed) for a short period of time. I then execute the first skill on my second bar, which causes a wound effect on the target, dealing damage over 12 seconds. I then use Blade Dance (or Dancing Blades...something like that), the second skill on the third row of my skill deck. This skill hits the target three times (also hits up to three other targets in the vicinity), dealing heavy Calculated damage. Calculated damage does more damage if the target has a lower concentration than you. Since I had just recuded the target's concentration by 3 (though only temporarily), this attack does a significant amount of damage. The skill deck turns back to my first row, and I execute Backflip Kick. This attack can hit up to two enemies, and if it hits, increases my Physique by 1, which increases my movement speed. I use the skill quick strike on the second bar to do some damage and increase concentration by 1. My blade dance is still cooling down, so I do my best to get behind the target (aided by the increased movement speed from the physique buff) and execute spine stab, which deals heavy damage if you are behind the target. The skill deck switches back to my first row. Backflip kick is still cooling down, and Side Step takes longer to activate, leaving me open to attack for a short while, so I decide to use my last skill on my first row. I step back a few steps and execute Headshot, which deals heavy ranged Calculated damage to a target. Since I had just increased my concentration, this will do heavy damage to the target. The target is probably dead by now, but, if not, I continue to use the skills I mentioned in different orders depending on the situation.
Still don't think combat has any strategy? I find a reason that a lot of people don't find the combat fun is that they are stuck with the perceptual set put on them by traditional MMO's, such as wow. They try targeting the creature and executing their attacks with the number keys. This is not how Spellborn works. You have to aim your attacks (let me remind you again of the R key, since a surprising number of people don't know about it), and you switch between skills quickly with the mousewheel, executing them with a left click. I have personally never had as much fun and challenge in combat than I have in spellborn.
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"We'll be saying a big hello to all intelligent lifeforms everywhere... and to everyone else out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together, guys!"
Thank you for taking the time out to type out how a typical fight goes for you in Spellborn.
I would also like to share my experience, starting as a warrior and now an (only level 5) adept. On one hand, it's nice that the game tries to incorporate a twist to the tried and true mechanics of most mmo combat systems. On the other hand, it's not as innovative or even remotely necessary as the hype leads people to believe.
As a warrior (now adept) most of my attacks revolve around increasing my phisique and lowering my enemies physique. I could run around dodging all enemy attacks if I want to, which is interesting the first few times you do it, but I have witnessed that it's just faster to kill enemies by standing still and going through all your attack skills without bothering with dodging. It may be a different story at later levels but it seemed that dodging was just a big waste of time so far (for a warrior).
Also, using my 1-9 keys works fine for activating skills. I tap 1 to activate the first icon in my current row, then press 1 again to use that skill. When the second row pops up I can continue mashing 1 to continue using my first icon ad nauseum. Really, using the number keys works just the same in this game as it does in any other whack-a-mole MMO combat system.
As for Quests and Lore/Story, there is some sarcastic humor in the quests, which is different than what I've grown used to in most MMO's today, however there has not yet been anything to make me feel like I'm part of the spellborn world. Sure, investigating a murder or finding out why the boars have gone mad is one thing, but what is it that's making a player character feel like a necessary entity in the universe? Is there a cohesive storyline? I've yet to find it, and I've spent maybe around 3 hours so far getting to level 5 (and taking my time to read all the quests I've been finding in the process.)
My early game opinion: The game has enough twists to the standard fare of fantasy MMO's out now to make it stand out, but the novelty wears off rather quickly.
On request of the closed beta testers they made the starter area easier (unfortunately they did not listen to all useful input from the testers), because it was believed that being killed by a level 1 bear when not dodging would discourage beginners too much. So now you can adopt a "wrong" play style in the beginners area by not dodging attacks at all.
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Delanor
On request of the closed beta testers they made the starter area easier (unfortunately they did not listen to all useful input from the testers), because it was believed that being killed by a level 1 bear when not dodging would discourage beginners too much. So now you can adopt a "wrong" play style in the beginners area by not dodging attacks at all.
Adding to what Delanor said:
Almost all of the wildlife in starter area don't have any state altering skills (they don't affect your physique/morale/concentration aka speed of movement/damage output/speed of consecutive attacks).
The above was decided after the beta, since a lot of people had real problems to kill the starting enemies.
There are exception though.
As a warrior, try to take out the "wild young boars" that spawn from the "attack in the Lumberyard" quest.
These mobs affect your concentration and bring it to 0 pretty damn quickly.
Try to take them out by yourself without the increased physique by just attacking, standing still. Impossible.
With concentration=zero you attack once every 3 sec.
Two/three of these boars can take you out easily if you don't move/use the extra distance to use ranged attacks/avoid hits.
The above situation is much more representative of the fights in the later game (trust me, I know). Standing still=death in this game. Not using your state affecting skills=death again.
Regards
You are going to be in trouble, as soon as you are fighting against human npcs. They come in groups and use special skills too. Every time they hit you, they will bring down your states. Without higher physique you wont make as much damage and you wont be able to run away, if the tides of battle turn against you. If they lower your Concentration, your skill deck will turn slower and you wont be able to attack as fast and so on...
(Joibest was faster)
Meridian 59, DAOC, EQ, Horizons, EQ2, CoH, WoW, Guildwars, Vanguard, TabulaRasa, AoC, WAR, TCoS ...
I started in open beta, but I didn't get the fighting method then... I was doing it the 'traditional' mmo way... standing in front of the mob and bashing it. Luckily i understood I had to aim the thing heh. But not the subtle messages reticle had in it.
Then I started playing on Dec 5th and on my second day I noticed that some players were 'dancing' around the mob. I recalled hearing about actually moving ie dodging etc. And I gave it a go.
And oh my.. did the fighting become more fun. I took joy when I managed to suprise the mob by moving behind it and stabbing him in the back. And avoiding damage by being fast on my feet.
This is really hectic (and actually hurts my hand lol).. I have my fingers on W/S, A and D/F all the time (moving and drawing your weapon), and right hand on mouse (both buttons and mousewheel). And I've been a pure mouse user myself, so this was quite a learning and still is.
Graphics are beautiful, and you can't say that you aren't impressed when you first time visit the tavern (as an example). The character models I was bit put off by, and I chose a human. But I'm now used to the character models and start to see the little details that make them pretty. And I love the fact that your looks doesn't matter the stats or your fighting capability. I don't wear armor, just normal clothing... sort of buccaneer style with a sabre of course
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In the beginning I was getting bit frustrated with boars and wolves ... I mean aren't there anything else I can get to you LOL. But since I knew this from beta - I took the quests so that I could complete more quests on one killing session. Other quests I really liked, murder mystery, puzzles... and these continue beyond the F2P. And it gets even more involving once you choose your High House. And you'll have nice surprises along the way, houses aren't what they seem to be
Sorry no spoilers here heh
So when you give this game a go... play as far as you can, go to the next zone as well and do quests even if you don't get any credit anymore. Just to see little bit beyond the first levels... get yourself time to adjust, get used to and chance to enjoy.
Well thanx for your input and response exclam.
First of all you debate the quests are not same old ho hum but all you added was that they added some extra text,i am sorry but for one i don't like reading too much on the screen from npcs and two there was no voice over really nothing intriguing other than the text.I doubt it would do much for the majority of players.
Yes i do believe the buildings have the EXACT same fake wood look and curvey style that WOW buildings do.The buildings are not strategically placed ,for the majority they are all side by side by side.anyhow that is not a big issue,i do not want to make it out to be one either.
The diversity part,yes i only have 2 sets ,i still do not see the combat part being much fun.The problem is here>>>you mentioned about holding a finger on left to click/select,well my other is on mouse to constantly aim ,witch BTW you MUST do to hit anything.I did not find i had time to look over the wheel and think about what i would click next,imagine 4/5 sets? lmao no way will that be practical.
This is how i see it,you are looking at all these skills from a solo player standpoint.Ya ok you might be able to remember exactly the order of maybe your first 5 flips of the wheel,but what if you are grouping,now all of a sudden you have to remember 5/6 sets and there orders?so remember a possible 5 on each set ,is that 30 sets?There is also no REAL combination because the wheel only[as far as i can see]flips position 1 to 2/3/4/5 and so on,it's not like you can flip it back to the first spot or anywhere you want.
Yes you can remember your sequences,and line them up on the wheels so you can make it even easier by setting them all up in the number 1 spot.Problem is they are giving each player buffs so they do not even need a group ,it is more solo design all over again.If you bring grouping into it,you will never remember where you have the 30+ different buffs on the wheel without wasting time looking for them.
I don't know others opinions but you think it is strategic to be able to buff yourself for the exactly what you need?I mean even i picked up on that ,i had mine aligned so i could lower there concentration i think it was and open them up for more damage,then i used my best dmg skill.What i am eluding to is the practical side of it,when you start getting into 30+ skills on your wheel?you think you are going to remember everything?The biggest issue is that i do NOT even think it is neccessary to consider it strategic,i bet you will get along just fine ,just aiming and clicking,basically letting the wheel go around and auto select,i know i had no problems at all.As a matter of fact you can remove skills so that you only have 1 or 2 on a set,that would make it so you dont even need to look,the wheel will have only the choice you laid out for it.
It is/was not fun because it was cumbersome,with no use to being cumbersome, i did not need to do anything,albeit early on and there will be harder foes,but i actually heard players were dying to the bears or having problems,i had zero problems so it shows making it cumbersome was un needed.
You will not need 30 or so skills,this is what wil lhappen.Players wil lsimplify it ,i know iwill,put one skil lon each set ,so as you get more sets you still have plenty of skills,6 sets is 6 skills ,i can;t see you needing or having time to cast anymore,start debuff or buff then attk/debuff/attk/debuff/attk is all you need or very little variance to that.The game also NEEDS diffinitive animations to show you landed or what yo uactually cast did work,all i saw was green numbers flashing on the screen.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
@Wizardry: I think there are max 30 slots on the skill deck and you mentioned the solution yourself:
You dont need to put in 30 different skills. You could choose the ones that work best from your selection of skills for your playing style and create a killer-deck with them. That way you can create a very unique style of fighting. Thats what I like about TCoS. It reminds me of Guildwars or dare I say Magic the Gathering...
You seem to be inclined to not like the game. If I tried to convince you otherwise, it would probably only antagonize you more. Maybe if you try out a different playing style, you would start to like it - maybe not. The good thing about a free trial is, it doesnt cost you anything to learn that this game isnt for you. I had to pay 45 EUR to learn, that I hate Warhammer Online.
Meridian 59, DAOC, EQ, Horizons, EQ2, CoH, WoW, Guildwars, Vanguard, TabulaRasa, AoC, WAR, TCoS ...
Simplified controls around the arrows keys so that i could just CTRL to flip the skills left and INS to flip them to the right.I stil lfound keeping the aim on the target enough to not even think about what skill i would cast.The movements are very fast and the Foe seems to slide more than move realistic.
The game really i mean 100% reminds me of Might n MAgic,the animations,sounds are all old school,identical to that game.
The server PVE euro was really dead last night an during the day,i mean the map is not that big and i have seen very few people.
I have not found the combat to be anything much really,to even push myself to the sub class sytstem,witch BTW is a great idea.
It is obvious why they have attempted to roll everything into each class,there are only 3 classes so no room to make specialized classes that heal only or are master buffers/debuffers.,.
There is no doubt a hotbar is much more skillful and is MUCH easier to use.You could have many hotbars all setup for different scenarios and cast what skill you want,instead of waiting for a wheel to flip around.You will have to totally redo your whole setup if you go from solo to group play.It is EXACTLY like having a LIMITED hotbar ,that is all they have done here.A whole pile of litttle hotbars thrown onto a wheel that flips one way and only has 5 choices per flip,yep why try to break a proven system,hotbars work for a reason.
I doubt it ,but it does not seem to have any combination or advanced combat?I mean where you would need a tank and a thief to complete a SATA like as in FFXI.Or a system like EQ with the wheel thing that pops up when a certain skill is met and you have to meet the demands of the skill to complete an advanced combat move.,that creates buffs or more damage ,whatever.
This game really as far as combat goes has limited it self a lot,it needed more diversity,more classes,hotbars and more effort into the over all combat system.IMO it is simplified but more cumbersome,two elements that do not bode well.
Peace OUT enjoy your game.
it's just not my cup of tea.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I have come to the unequivocal decision that this game is not for you.
Wizardry, you clearly have no intention of liking this game. You simply don't like the style of the game. This would not be a problem at all if you hadn't blamed your dislike of the style of the game on the game mechanics. It's almost exactly like saying an FPS sucks because it doesn't have spells. You're looking in the wrong direction, man.
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"We'll be saying a big hello to all intelligent lifeforms everywhere... and to everyone else out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together, guys!"
This is what you should have said in the first place, and left. The fact that you said "it's not my cup of tea" after putting a great deal of effort into unjustly criticizing the game is downright repulsive.
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"We'll be saying a big hello to all intelligent lifeforms everywhere... and to everyone else out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together, guys!"
I dont think we need to turn this into a flamewar. Some will like it, some not. Some will adapt to the new game mechanics, some will not. And sometimes we all go over the top to criticize or support a game. If some clearly misunderstand the combat system of TCoS, it doesnt mean the system has to change. But it could be a hint to the developers (or the fanbois) that they have to explain it better and/or offer a tutorial.
Peace.
P.S.: Yesterday I took my own words to heart and reorganized my own skill deck (3x3 slots atm). I used less skills and put the hack and slash standard attack back in. They worked great with my Life Tap spell and suddenly combat became easier against groups. It´s a constant learning process and that´s what I like about this game.
Meridian 59, DAOC, EQ, Horizons, EQ2, CoH, WoW, Guildwars, Vanguard, TabulaRasa, AoC, WAR, TCoS ...