What I find most funny about this situation is how SOE is still running like they're the only MMORPG provider in the industry like in 2000. HELLO! Wake'm up boys!
SOE is not the only kid on the block. Here's a set of "if / then" statements they can stick into their programs:
10 If micropay, then subscription fee =$0, goto 10
20 If micropay and subscription fee, End program
Run
Finally, on the Free-to-Play micropay games I DO play, the purchase stuff needs to be non-essential to the game play (costumes, titles, other non-advancement stuff) else I don't play out of unfairness.
It does not matter if the items for sale are game unbalancing, powerful or any of that nonsense. What they are selling now does not matter one bit. It could be nothing but a set of vanity shoes and it wouldn't matter.
What is important is that people are accepting this. That is all that matters to SOE, because once it is ingame and people accept it, then SOE has free reigns to do whatever they want with it. Once that door is open you cannot shut it and It will never go away.
Then, SOE can and based on their past track record, will introduce items that you do no think appropriate for real money sales. Anyone can say whatever they want about it not happening, Smed can chissle it in stone and put it on every login screen if he wants to, but their past actions have proven they can and will do whatever they want to. Their promises mean nothing, because they can wordsmith them into anything they want to.
As long as you pay a subscription fee you are casting a vote that you accept this sort of thing. It doesn't matter what you post or say anywhere. SOE has proven time and time again they do not care what you think. They have simply stopped asking what you and I think as they just push their plans forward. SOE knows people will want to vent and shout so they slap together a special forum to do that and when everyone is done they will delete it, because they have herded all the negativity into one spot. As long as you keep paying money they do not care what you think.
The sad thing is this company cares more about the people NOT playing their games than they do the people who are. I would safely bet that I have received more surveys and communications from SOE than anyone playing right now has.
Bottom line is, cancel. I did when LoN was introduced because it was obvious where smed was going with this.
If this game succeeds then other (more reputable) companies might fall prey to this type of thinking.
Send a signal, loud and strong, and cancel.
It's not the game you paid for anyway , so cut and run while you can.
The truly sad thing is, the game was good. Developed further by a reputable company it would have been even better. Sad to see this lore going into the trasher.
Never again will I even contemplate another SoE product.
SOE has proven time and time again they do not care what you think. They have simply stopped asking what you and I think as they just push their plans forward. SOE knows people will want to vent and shout so they slap together a special forum to do that and when everyone is done they will delete it, because they have herded all the negativity into one spot. As long as you keep paying money they do not care what you think.
This is true, from my first complaint on Everquest 1 in 2000 to my last one in Everquest 2 in 2007, it has been very clear to me. I have a list a mile long. I put up with it because I had friends who wanted me in the game and tried desparately to 'make it work' for all of us. I was ashamed and embarrassed to have to pay the subscription fees and EverExpanions during that time as well as retrospective regret. Having been clean for a year, this announcement only makes me laugh because it further exposes their motives from the beginning. See the beast for what it is:
The very thing we were promised would NEVER HAPPEN.
Is this a slippery slope? I don't think so but only because you the players will simply not let it ever be a slippery slope. LMAO. Yes... because the players disapproval of certain things has been so influential on SOE's actions in the past, right Smed?
What a crock of shit. In order to govern yourself by what the players do and do not want, you have to first be *listening* to them. So long as SOE and Co. continue to heed the siren song of "More $$$" - regardless of how subscribers feel about it - the concern of the players will be summarily ignored.
As for his statement that RMT and micro-transactions aren't the same thing.. Umm.. nice try but, you see, Smed... there *are* those of us out here who haven't drank the kool-aid and can see right through the spin. Nice try though. Micro-transactions are fundamentally no different than RMT. The only difference is the money goes directly to and through SOE, instead of a 3rd party company. People are going to spend real money to buy gold, or items, or power-leveling, etc *anyway*... so instead of doing more to combat it, hey... why not get into the business yourself. It's the classic "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" behavior.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Bottom line is, cancel. I did when LoN was introduced because it was obvious where smed was going with this.
If this game succeeds then other (more reputable) companies might fall prey to this type of thinking.
Send a signal, loud and strong, and cancel.
I just did. Said my goodbyes to guildies with why I'm leaving and chucked the Station and E2Players accounts.
Won't support a game that allows a have and have not game play, period. Either folks level with their abilities, or I'm out of it. Don't want to play with level 80 paper tigers who's as clueless as a level 10 player right off of newbie isle, as they're leveling so fast to not even know a dang thing about the game mechanics, or their class.
Won't support a game that allows a have and have not game play, period. Either folks level with their abilities, or I'm out of it. Don't want to play with level 80 paper tigers who's as clueless as a level 10 player right off of newbie isle, as they're leveling so fast to not even know a dang thing about the game mechanics, or their class.
This is really the crux of the issue beneath Sony's need for greed. I appreciate your stand for fairness. It'll turn in to a playground for the rich and bored to compete for virtual wealth for ego inflation.
Many will call me crazy but here is how it works.......
Sony Online Entertainment is an Eastern Company.......Japan.
Eastern companies do NOT understand Western MMO models of paying monthly. Nearly every single eastern MMO is based on micro transactions.
Korea is blazing the path of MMO's with micro transactions, and China is establishing a foothold. And Japan hates that with a frenzy.
Since eastern MMO's do NOT understand western MMO business models, and western customers prefer not to play in the micro market........................and here is the point.............SOE is trying to make the games more enticing to the eastern market, thinking they can gain a larger customer base there. In other words Smed is listening to his Sony bosses and changing the games into Eastern models.
Basically saying a big "up yours" to the current customer base, typical of SOE.
I have been SOE free since May of 2004. I wont even buy a Playstation three because of their business tactics.
Plenty of good games on the market, get out now and find a new home is my suggestion.
As long as you pay a subscription fee you are casting a vote that you accept this sort of thing. It doesn't matter what you post or say anywhere. SOE has proven time and time again they do not care what you think. They have simply stopped asking what you and I think as they just push their plans forward. SOE knows people will want to vent and shout so they slap together a special forum to do that and when everyone is done they will delete it, because they have herded all the negativity into one spot. As long as you keep paying money they do not care what you think.
Until people get this through their thick skulls, SoE wins.
Many will call me crazy but here is how it works....... Sony Online Entertainment is an Eastern Company.......Japan. Eastern companies do NOT understand Western MMO models of paying monthly. Nearly every single eastern MMO is based on micro transactions. Korea is blazing the path of MMO's with micro transactions, and China is establishing a foothold. And Japan hates that with a frenzy. Since eastern MMO's do NOT understand western MMO business models, and western customers prefer not to play in the micro market........................and here is the point.............SOE is trying to make the games more enticing to the eastern market, thinking they can gain a larger customer base there. In other words Smed is listening to his Sony bosses and changing the games into Eastern models. Basically saying a big "up yours" to the current customer base, typical of SOE.
I have been SOE free since May of 2004. I wont even buy a Playstation three because of their business tactics. Plenty of good games on the market, get out now and find a new home is my suggestion.
Uh..SOE is NOT an Eastern Company. SOE is a Western Company. It has NEVER been an Eastern company it was strickly built for Western Demographics. All of its offices are located strickly in the United States. Sony on the other hand IS an Eastern Company but has little to do with how its various Branches Operate.
SOE also has NOTHING to do with the Playstation. SOE is Sony Online Entertainment is strickly for Online Games such as Everquest, Planetside etc. Essentially its Sony's PC gaming platform that has attempted over the years to work on Sony's console platform and consistantly failed in my opinion.
The fact you wont buy a Playstation is hilarious since Sony's Playstation group has nothing to do with the SOE folks. Smedley the evil of SOE has no say or control over the playstation and never has. I guess you dont' and never will by a Blu Ray since its a Sony design. You can't honestly tell me you'd boycott an entire company from TV's to dvd players over what a single Branch that runs Online Games does? Thats extreme if not down right retarded.
Many will call me crazy but here is how it works....... Sony Online Entertainment is an Eastern Company.......Japan. Eastern companies do NOT understand Western MMO models of paying monthly. Nearly every single eastern MMO is based on micro transactions. Korea is blazing the path of MMO's with micro transactions, and China is establishing a foothold. And Japan hates that with a frenzy. Since eastern MMO's do NOT understand western MMO business models, and western customers prefer not to play in the micro market........................and here is the point.............SOE is trying to make the games more enticing to the eastern market, thinking they can gain a larger customer base there. In other words Smed is listening to his Sony bosses and changing the games into Eastern models. Basically saying a big "up yours" to the current customer base, typical of SOE. I have been SOE free since May of 2004. I wont even buy a Playstation three because of their business tactics. Plenty of good games on the market, get out now and find a new home is my suggestion.
I don't think you're crazy at all and I DO think this is how it works. The difference is the micro pay games that come from Korea/China have the following that Everquest does not:
1.) Free. No subscription.
2.) Purchased items aren't typically 'uber weapons' and such that shift the gameplay balance. (none that I play anyway)
3.) People agree to the payment system when they first join the game.
4.) Free to play games are fun. (okay, I admit it, this one is only my opinion )
Originally posted by banthis You can't honestly tell me you'd boycott an entire company from TV's to dvd players over what a single Branch that runs Online Games does? Thats extreme if not down right retarded.
Not at all retard. Follow the logic please: I won't get Verizon FIOS because their contrators jacked up my yard and on a number of occasions accidently cut my cable line. They also cracked 3 of my neighbor's driveways and the house two doors down caught fire from their poor outdoor wiring. I called Verizon, they claim "well, we hire contractors so..." Don't care who they hire, Verizon is the name on the bill and are responsible. I don't care which area is better mananged than another. Cancelled.
Now, saying that SOE doesn't 'talk to' or is managed by Sony...now that is absurd.
In the late 1980's Sony was the brand to beat. I had a dual tapedeck recorder that was built solid and out-performed anything on the market. I held it for ten years. Over the next years, I got two of their CD player products on different occasions. Both crap. I know exactly why. They outsourced it and were looking to cut costs (to make more money). In addition, they cut a customer. I came back with Everquest, but they lost me again for much of the same reason. Greed does ugly things to people and have no desire to support it at the expense of my wallet.
Uh..SOE is NOT an Eastern Company. SOE is a Western Company. It has NEVER been an Eastern company it was strickly built for Western Demographics. All of its offices are located strickly in the United States. Sony on the other hand IS an Eastern Company but has little to do with how its various Branches Operate. SOE also has NOTHING to do with the Playstation. SOE is Sony Online Entertainment is strickly for Online Games such as Everquest, Planetside etc. Essentially its Sony's PC gaming platform that has attempted over the years to work on Sony's console platform and consistantly failed in my opinion. The fact you wont buy a Playstation is hilarious since Sony's Playstation group has nothing to do with the SOE folks. Smedley the evil of SOE has no say or control over the playstation and never has. I guess you dont' and never will by a Blu Ray since its a Sony design. You can't honestly tell me you'd boycott an entire company from TV's to dvd players over what a single Branch that runs Online Games does? Thats extreme if not down right retarded.
What is hilareous is you need to do (very little) research and learn who owns SOE. MMMmmmmkay here is a hint, it starts with SONY.
Uh..SOE is NOT an Eastern Company. SOE is a Western Company. It has NEVER been an Eastern company it was strickly built for Western Demographics. All of its offices are located strickly in the United States. Sony on the other hand IS an Eastern Company but has little to do with how its various Branches Operate. SOE also has NOTHING to do with the Playstation. SOE is Sony Online Entertainment is strickly for Online Games such as Everquest, Planetside etc. Essentially its Sony's PC gaming platform that has attempted over the years to work on Sony's console platform and consistantly failed in my opinion. The fact you wont buy a Playstation is hilarious since Sony's Playstation group has nothing to do with the SOE folks. Smedley the evil of SOE has no say or control over the playstation and never has. I guess you dont' and never will by a Blu Ray since its a Sony design. You can't honestly tell me you'd boycott an entire company from TV's to dvd players over what a single Branch that runs Online Games does? Thats extreme if not down right retarded.
What is hilareous is you need to do (very little) research and learn who owns SOE. MMMmmmmkay here is a hint, it starts with SONY.
and a little research would show you just how involved SOE is in the eastern market and how incorrect your claims that they are trying to appeal to that demographic with microtransactions.
I don't think there is a single SOE MMO still operating in the eastern market, period. Everyone they have opened in that market has been closed down, because SOE doesn't know its ass from a hole in the ground.
Also taking on a microtransaction model ON TOP OF a subscription fee doesn't make the game more attractive to eastern gaming markets. Somehow I doubt eastern players would be thrilled if the microtransaction games added in a monthly subscription fee on top of cash item malls. Just like western players are not to thrilled about paying a subscription fee and then having a price tag put on addtion in game items. This isn't some chocolate and peanut butter collision that makes one of the worlds most popular candy discoveries.
The problem with SOE isn't that Sony prime is getting involved. The problem is that the online entertainment division is being ruled by people who only understand revenue streams and profit margins. For more years than I care to remember they have lost touch with the pulse of the gaming industry. They are more concerned with making products and financial reports than they are making games.
Originally posted by Daffid011 I don't think there is a single SOE MMO still operating in the eastern market, period. Everyone they have opened in that market has been closed down, because SOE doesn't know its ass from a hole in the ground.
Now I'm one of the last to defend Sony here for this fiasco, but as a Japanese-American I can say the reason Sony's games don't sell in other Asian countries is more to do with ethnic rivalries than a product itself.
Koreans are just as nationalistic as the Chinese and Japanese. Home grown is always better, that "Nihon ichiban" mentality. Can't penetrate home grown markets without some nasty reprecussions.
The main problem with Sony, all the way back to Betamax days, is that they want to dominate with an ironfist. Remember having one of the first VHS recorders on the street back in the 70s. The reason we got it was because Betamax recorders and video cassettes were so expensive. Back then VHS tapes cost $25 a piece (Panasonic), Betamax tapes were even more expensive. Sony lost strictly on price, much like it keeps losing in the console wars. Nintendo did the same in the 80s and also got burned.
That mindset also comes from a company that ripped off even Japanese, by making them pay more for products why exports were selling much cheaper.
Sony used to be a quality company (still have a working 15" color TV from the 70s). Today, you couldn't give me the junk they sell, as it falls apart so easily.
The company has lost my respect (it's SOE division is horrid), and my "Nihon ichiban" mom will have to live without Sony products for now on -- it's not entering my house again (and I'll make sure the generics aren't from Sony's other offshoots). Diss me, and I don't reward the bad behavior.
Sony used to be a quality company (still have a working 15" color TV from the 70s). Today, you couldn't give me the junk they sell, as it falls apart so easily.
I'm glad someone else saw the same trend as I did. Currently I should be studying Korean since Samsung pretty much owns my electronic household. If Samsung makes an MMORPG, guess who will be first in line. Until then, I'll watch some Dae Jo Joyoung on KBS...
I wasn't really saying SOE should dominate in the eastern market, but they should at least have some presence. Other companies have games running there. Warcraft, starcraft, etc are all very popular in that market, more so than the western market.
There are also some eastern games that are doing pretty well in the western market.
SOE failed in that market with all of their attempts, every single one. Considering this is a company that will not shut down even the most dire of their current games that speaks of how poorly they were doing. It is pretty obvious they don't understand the market over there and I highly doubt SOE will be the company that bridges the eastern MMO cultures to the western market. They can hardly even stand up against direct competitors here and basically survive off of a few brand names and some very die hard customers. Not that they are not testing just how much punishment and mistreatment they will put up with before leaving.
Honestly I think SOE knows their future is dying in the MMO field with all of their current titles. None of them have any signs of positive growth, let alone the possibility of that future changing. All of them have long since passed thier peaks and their market share has been reduced to a pitance of its former size. Their entire future depends on their new releases: the agency, DC and free worlds. They can do pretty much whatever they want to their current lineup and it will not matter much in the long run if those titles do not succeed.
I agree with people who see these RMT as desperate cash grabs to increase the bottom line in a corporation looking to trim the fat and to test how much they can push on players in their new games.
Oh for gods sakes... the items are worthless and I'm betting that, with the economy, SOE is getting just as desperate as everyone else for getting as much money as they can. I don't like it either but its not like its going to be a game breaker. Only morons will spend their money on that crap. Especially since all it is is either pretty stuff that means nothing and xp potions.
You remember LoN and that the loot cards would only be fluf items... nothing more?
If you think it will stay with fluf then you are very naive.
And AA potions is pretty much affecting the game and no fluf.
Cheers
QFT
Like it or not soon enough game breaking items will come along via this route to think otherwise is borderline daft tbh,becuase if they can charge a couple of pounds for an xp potion imagine what they could charge for a mythical weapon?,or a level 80 toon..
Just a matter of time before it comes,its a certainty
Many will call me crazy but here is how it works....... Sony Online Entertainment is an Eastern Company.......Japan. Eastern companies do NOT understand Western MMO models of paying monthly. Nearly every single eastern MMO is based on micro transactions. Korea is blazing the path of MMO's with micro transactions, and China is establishing a foothold. And Japan hates that with a frenzy. Since eastern MMO's do NOT understand western MMO business models, and western customers prefer not to play in the micro market........................and here is the point.............SOE is trying to make the games more enticing to the eastern market, thinking they can gain a larger customer base there. In other words Smed is listening to his Sony bosses and changing the games into Eastern models. Basically saying a big "up yours" to the current customer base, typical of SOE.
I have been SOE free since May of 2004. I wont even buy a Playstation three because of their business tactics. Plenty of good games on the market, get out now and find a new home is my suggestion.
Uh..SOE is NOT an Eastern Company. SOE is a Western Company. It has NEVER been an Eastern company it was strickly built for Western Demographics. All of its offices are located strickly in the United States. Sony on the other hand IS an Eastern Company but has little to do with how its various Branches Operate.
SOE also has NOTHING to do with the Playstation. SOE is Sony Online Entertainment is strickly for Online Games such as Everquest, Planetside etc. Essentially its Sony's PC gaming platform that has attempted over the years to work on Sony's console platform and consistantly failed in my opinion.
The fact you wont buy a Playstation is hilarious since Sony's Playstation group has nothing to do with the SOE folks. Smedley the evil of SOE has no say or control over the playstation and never has. I guess you dont' and never will by a Blu Ray since its a Sony design. You can't honestly tell me you'd boycott an entire company from TV's to dvd players over what a single Branch that runs Online Games does? Thats extreme if not down right retarded...SOE was absorbed into SCEE earlier in the year,its very much part of the PS3 group now simple as that mainly becuase they want thier own in house dev team for that console,after alll SOE's next 3 MMO are leading on the PS3 so it made sense to have SOE on board
SOE was abosorb into the main PS3 divsion earlier this year wasnt it?,makes sense i suppose as its SOE,3 MMOs are leading on that console
I do get the feeling EQ2 players are just beta testing (perminently) the cash shop for games such as free realms though
So if anything Smedley has to answer to the head honchos in japan now and atm they seem to like what he's doing
Oh for gods sakes... the items are worthless and I'm betting that, with the economy, SOE is getting just as desperate as everyone else for getting as much money as they can. I don't like it either but its not like its going to be a game breaker. Only morons will spend their money on that crap. Especially since all it is is either pretty stuff that means nothing and xp potions.
You remember LoN and that the loot cards would only be fluf items... nothing more?
If you think it will stay with fluf then you are very naive.
And AA potions is pretty much affecting the game and no fluf.
Cheers
rofl... and I never use anything off of LoN and never play the game. it doesn't effect anything one way or the other.
This time last year when LoN came about they said nothing would come that would impact the game and low and behold now you can get a house loot card,not game breaking but a huge leap on from what was on offer last year
Whats next? loot level cards?,buy an insta level 80?
People who use this service will want more than fluff soon enough and thats when the goodies will arrive
Kind of a sad development really , I am going to seriously re-think my Station Pass now .. I already pay my subscription and now they want more money from me ?
Why is this such a big deal?
[this is taking from my post on another thread about this]
Now I paid 49.99 for the game 15 bucks a month and lets say I spend 10 dollars a month in the item mall. All those added together comes to me spending $6.50 a week. I play EQ2 about 2.5 hours a day during the week and maybe 4 hours on sat. and sun that is 20.5 hours of entertainment a week. That is less then the cost of going to the movies once a week that is 2 hours of entertainment. That is less then it cost to get even a cheap meal once a week. You can not buy 2 beers out at a bar for that. As for me, 6.50 a week for the fun I am having in the SOE game EQ2 seems like a fantastic bargain. I have many problems with SOE (I am a pissed SWG vet) but the idea of an item mall with cosmetic items, and the marketplace items in EQ2 are cosmetic at least so far, does not bother me at all.
Where else can you get anything close to this for the entertainment value of EQ2 including spending some mony in the item mall? So again how is this so terrible? $6.50 a week for about 20 hours of entertainment (for me, some many more hours) those greedy bastards!
eccoton, I'm not getting it either. I find it annoying but no more than that. If people wnat to waste their cash, let them do it.
Why is that exactly wasting their cash, If they are getting entertainment from it? I hear the following response a lot " Why buy a digital item for real money when it is not even real". Well then why even play the game isn't that the exact same thing? The game is not real either but you are paying a monthy fee to play. Neither are movies or tv shows but you buy a ticket or pay a cable fee. So why is someone buying a cool looking outfit or a potion to speed up there experience a waste of money? Why is paying for one type of virtual experience anymore valid then another? After all, none of it is anything more then images on a screen.
Welcome to a new type purchasing structure for the virtual experience in the 21st century. I actually find it kind of interesting. I think this is less about SOE greed (as some think) and more of them getting their feet wet in the future of online gaming and different payment methods. Just like going to consoles with their mmos The Agency and DC Universe.
They choose EQ and EQ2 because they are stable established games with a pretty loyal player base. This will keep the damage, of pissed players leaving, to a minimum and give them a chance to see if it works. At the same time generating new revinues for games that might not be drawing a lot of new players. I have a feeling more mmos will go this way in the near future. For awhile you will see games like EQ/EQ2 that will have both a monthly fee and a item mall. Eventually the player will move towards the item mall idea and we will see less monthly fees for mmos and more alternative payment methods, like item malls or buying time. I think American mmo players will have a harder time adjusting to this but I think SOE sees this as the future of mmos. They might actually be right about this one.
Kind of a sad development really , I am going to seriously re-think my Station Pass now .. I already pay my subscription and now they want more money from me ?
Why is this such a big deal?
[this is taking from my post on another thread about this]
Now I paid 49.99 for the game 15 bucks a month and lets say I spend 10 dollars a month in the item mall. All those added together comes to me spending $6.50 a week. I play EQ2 about 2.5 hours a day during the week and maybe 4 hours on sat. and sun that is 20.5 hours of entertainment a week. That is less then the cost of going to the movies once a week that is 2 hours of entertainment. That is less then it cost to get even a cheep meal once a week. You can not buy 2 beers out at a bar for that. As for me, 6.50 a week for the fun I am having in the SOE game EQ2 seems like a fantastic bargain. I have many problems with SOE (I am a pissed SWG vet) but the idea of an item mall with cosmetic items, and the marketplace items in EQ2 are cosmetic at least so far, does not bother me at all.
Where else can you get anything close to this for the entertainment value of EQ2 including spending some mony in the item mall? So again how is this so terrible? $6.50 a week for about 20 hours of entertainment (for me, some many more hours) those greedy bastards!
You simply don't get it. It's not even about the money.
It's about real world money dictating in game power. I will not, never, ever, ever, play a game with an item mall, ever. Everything available in game should be obtainable in game. These games should take place in worlds that are completely their own entities, with no influence from the real world at all.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Comments
What I find most funny about this situation is how SOE is still running like they're the only MMORPG provider in the industry like in 2000. HELLO! Wake'm up boys!
SOE is not the only kid on the block. Here's a set of "if / then" statements they can stick into their programs:
10 If micropay, then subscription fee =$0, goto 10
20 If micropay and subscription fee, End program
Run
Finally, on the Free-to-Play micropay games I DO play, the purchase stuff needs to be non-essential to the game play (costumes, titles, other non-advancement stuff) else I don't play out of unfairness.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
Here is the point most people are missing.
It does not matter if the items for sale are game unbalancing, powerful or any of that nonsense. What they are selling now does not matter one bit. It could be nothing but a set of vanity shoes and it wouldn't matter.
What is important is that people are accepting this. That is all that matters to SOE, because once it is ingame and people accept it, then SOE has free reigns to do whatever they want with it. Once that door is open you cannot shut it and It will never go away.
Then, SOE can and based on their past track record, will introduce items that you do no think appropriate for real money sales. Anyone can say whatever they want about it not happening, Smed can chissle it in stone and put it on every login screen if he wants to, but their past actions have proven they can and will do whatever they want to. Their promises mean nothing, because they can wordsmith them into anything they want to.
As long as you pay a subscription fee you are casting a vote that you accept this sort of thing. It doesn't matter what you post or say anywhere. SOE has proven time and time again they do not care what you think. They have simply stopped asking what you and I think as they just push their plans forward. SOE knows people will want to vent and shout so they slap together a special forum to do that and when everyone is done they will delete it, because they have herded all the negativity into one spot. As long as you keep paying money they do not care what you think.
The sad thing is this company cares more about the people NOT playing their games than they do the people who are. I would safely bet that I have received more surveys and communications from SOE than anyone playing right now has.
Bottom line is, cancel. I did when LoN was introduced because it was obvious where smed was going with this.
If this game succeeds then other (more reputable) companies might fall prey to this type of thinking.
Send a signal, loud and strong, and cancel.
It's not the game you paid for anyway , so cut and run while you can.
The truly sad thing is, the game was good. Developed further by a reputable company it would have been even better. Sad to see this lore going into the trasher.
Never again will I even contemplate another SoE product.
This is true, from my first complaint on Everquest 1 in 2000 to my last one in Everquest 2 in 2007, it has been very clear to me. I have a list a mile long. I put up with it because I had friends who wanted me in the game and tried desparately to 'make it work' for all of us. I was ashamed and embarrassed to have to pay the subscription fees and EverExpanions during that time as well as retrospective regret. Having been clean for a year, this announcement only makes me laugh because it further exposes their motives from the beginning. See the beast for what it is:
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I just did. Said my goodbyes to guildies with why I'm leaving and chucked the Station and E2Players accounts.
Won't support a game that allows a have and have not game play, period. Either folks level with their abilities, or I'm out of it. Don't want to play with level 80 paper tigers who's as clueless as a level 10 player right off of newbie isle, as they're leveling so fast to not even know a dang thing about the game mechanics, or their class.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
This is really the crux of the issue beneath Sony's need for greed. I appreciate your stand for fairness. It'll turn in to a playground for the rich and bored to compete for virtual wealth for ego inflation.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
Many will call me crazy but here is how it works.......
Sony Online Entertainment is an Eastern Company.......Japan.
Eastern companies do NOT understand Western MMO models of paying monthly. Nearly every single eastern MMO is based on micro transactions.
Korea is blazing the path of MMO's with micro transactions, and China is establishing a foothold. And Japan hates that with a frenzy.
Since eastern MMO's do NOT understand western MMO business models, and western customers prefer not to play in the micro market........................and here is the point.............SOE is trying to make the games more enticing to the eastern market, thinking they can gain a larger customer base there. In other words Smed is listening to his Sony bosses and changing the games into Eastern models.
Basically saying a big "up yours" to the current customer base, typical of SOE.
I have been SOE free since May of 2004. I wont even buy a Playstation three because of their business tactics.
Plenty of good games on the market, get out now and find a new home is my suggestion.
Until people get this through their thick skulls, SoE wins.
Uh..SOE is NOT an Eastern Company. SOE is a Western Company. It has NEVER been an Eastern company it was strickly built for Western Demographics. All of its offices are located strickly in the United States. Sony on the other hand IS an Eastern Company but has little to do with how its various Branches Operate.
SOE also has NOTHING to do with the Playstation. SOE is Sony Online Entertainment is strickly for Online Games such as Everquest, Planetside etc. Essentially its Sony's PC gaming platform that has attempted over the years to work on Sony's console platform and consistantly failed in my opinion.
The fact you wont buy a Playstation is hilarious since Sony's Playstation group has nothing to do with the SOE folks. Smedley the evil of SOE has no say or control over the playstation and never has. I guess you dont' and never will by a Blu Ray since its a Sony design. You can't honestly tell me you'd boycott an entire company from TV's to dvd players over what a single Branch that runs Online Games does? Thats extreme if not down right retarded.
I don't think you're crazy at all and I DO think this is how it works. The difference is the micro pay games that come from Korea/China have the following that Everquest does not:
1.) Free. No subscription.
2.) Purchased items aren't typically 'uber weapons' and such that shift the gameplay balance. (none that I play anyway)
3.) People agree to the payment system when they first join the game.
4.) Free to play games are fun. (okay, I admit it, this one is only my opinion
)
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
Not at all retard. Follow the logic please: I won't get Verizon FIOS because their contrators jacked up my yard and on a number of occasions accidently cut my cable line. They also cracked 3 of my neighbor's driveways and the house two doors down caught fire from their poor outdoor wiring. I called Verizon, they claim "well, we hire contractors so..." Don't care who they hire, Verizon is the name on the bill and are responsible. I don't care which area is better mananged than another. Cancelled.
Now, saying that SOE doesn't 'talk to' or is managed by Sony...now that is absurd.
In the late 1980's Sony was the brand to beat. I had a dual tapedeck recorder that was built solid and out-performed anything on the market. I held it for ten years. Over the next years, I got two of their CD player products on different occasions. Both crap. I know exactly why. They outsourced it and were looking to cut costs (to make more money). In addition, they cut a customer. I came back with Everquest, but they lost me again for much of the same reason. Greed does ugly things to people and have no desire to support it at the expense of my wallet.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
What is hilareous is you need to do (very little) research and learn who owns SOE. MMMmmmmkay here is a hint, it starts with SONY.
What is hilareous is you need to do (very little) research and learn who owns SOE. MMMmmmmkay here is a hint, it starts with SONY.
and a little research would show you just how involved SOE is in the eastern market and how incorrect your claims that they are trying to appeal to that demographic with microtransactions.
I don't think there is a single SOE MMO still operating in the eastern market, period. Everyone they have opened in that market has been closed down, because SOE doesn't know its ass from a hole in the ground.
Also taking on a microtransaction model ON TOP OF a subscription fee doesn't make the game more attractive to eastern gaming markets. Somehow I doubt eastern players would be thrilled if the microtransaction games added in a monthly subscription fee on top of cash item malls. Just like western players are not to thrilled about paying a subscription fee and then having a price tag put on addtion in game items. This isn't some chocolate and peanut butter collision that makes one of the worlds most popular candy discoveries.
The problem with SOE isn't that Sony prime is getting involved. The problem is that the online entertainment division is being ruled by people who only understand revenue streams and profit margins. For more years than I care to remember they have lost touch with the pulse of the gaming industry. They are more concerned with making products and financial reports than they are making games.
Now I'm one of the last to defend Sony here for this fiasco, but as a Japanese-American I can say the reason Sony's games don't sell in other Asian countries is more to do with ethnic rivalries than a product itself.
Koreans are just as nationalistic as the Chinese and Japanese. Home grown is always better, that "Nihon ichiban" mentality. Can't penetrate home grown markets without some nasty reprecussions.
The main problem with Sony, all the way back to Betamax days, is that they want to dominate with an ironfist. Remember having one of the first VHS recorders on the street back in the 70s. The reason we got it was because Betamax recorders and video cassettes were so expensive. Back then VHS tapes cost $25 a piece (Panasonic), Betamax tapes were even more expensive. Sony lost strictly on price, much like it keeps losing in the console wars. Nintendo did the same in the 80s and also got burned.
That mindset also comes from a company that ripped off even Japanese, by making them pay more for products why exports were selling much cheaper.
Sony used to be a quality company (still have a working 15" color TV from the 70s). Today, you couldn't give me the junk they sell, as it falls apart so easily.
The company has lost my respect (it's SOE division is horrid), and my "Nihon ichiban" mom will have to live without Sony products for now on -- it's not entering my house again (and I'll make sure the generics aren't from Sony's other offshoots). Diss me, and I don't reward the bad behavior.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
I'm glad someone else saw the same trend as I did. Currently I should be studying Korean since Samsung pretty much owns my electronic household. If Samsung makes an MMORPG, guess who will be first in line.
Until then, I'll watch some Dae Jo Joyoung on KBS...
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
I wasn't really saying SOE should dominate in the eastern market, but they should at least have some presence. Other companies have games running there. Warcraft, starcraft, etc are all very popular in that market, more so than the western market.
There are also some eastern games that are doing pretty well in the western market.
SOE failed in that market with all of their attempts, every single one. Considering this is a company that will not shut down even the most dire of their current games that speaks of how poorly they were doing. It is pretty obvious they don't understand the market over there and I highly doubt SOE will be the company that bridges the eastern MMO cultures to the western market. They can hardly even stand up against direct competitors here and basically survive off of a few brand names and some very die hard customers. Not that they are not testing just how much punishment and mistreatment they will put up with before leaving.
Honestly I think SOE knows their future is dying in the MMO field with all of their current titles. None of them have any signs of positive growth, let alone the possibility of that future changing. All of them have long since passed thier peaks and their market share has been reduced to a pitance of its former size. Their entire future depends on their new releases: the agency, DC and free worlds. They can do pretty much whatever they want to their current lineup and it will not matter much in the long run if those titles do not succeed.
I agree with people who see these RMT as desperate cash grabs to increase the bottom line in a corporation looking to trim the fat and to test how much they can push on players in their new games.
You remember LoN and that the loot cards would only be fluf items... nothing more?
If you think it will stay with fluf then you are very naive.
And AA potions is pretty much affecting the game and no fluf.
Cheers
QFT
Like it or not soon enough game breaking items will come along via this route to think otherwise is borderline daft tbh,becuase if they can charge a couple of pounds for an xp potion imagine what they could charge for a mythical weapon?,or a level 80 toon..
Just a matter of time before it comes,its a certainty
Uh..SOE is NOT an Eastern Company. SOE is a Western Company. It has NEVER been an Eastern company it was strickly built for Western Demographics. All of its offices are located strickly in the United States. Sony on the other hand IS an Eastern Company but has little to do with how its various Branches Operate.
SOE also has NOTHING to do with the Playstation. SOE is Sony Online Entertainment is strickly for Online Games such as Everquest, Planetside etc. Essentially its Sony's PC gaming platform that has attempted over the years to work on Sony's console platform and consistantly failed in my opinion.
The fact you wont buy a Playstation is hilarious since Sony's Playstation group has nothing to do with the SOE folks. Smedley the evil of SOE has no say or control over the playstation and never has. I guess you dont' and never will by a Blu Ray since its a Sony design. You can't honestly tell me you'd boycott an entire company from TV's to dvd players over what a single Branch that runs Online Games does? Thats extreme if not down right retarded...SOE was absorbed into SCEE earlier in the year,its very much part of the PS3 group now simple as that mainly becuase they want thier own in house dev team for that console,after alll SOE's next 3 MMO are leading on the PS3 so it made sense to have SOE on board
SOE was abosorb into the main PS3 divsion earlier this year wasnt it?,makes sense i suppose as its SOE,3 MMOs are leading on that console
I do get the feeling EQ2 players are just beta testing (perminently) the cash shop for games such as free realms though
So if anything Smedley has to answer to the head honchos in japan now and atm they seem to like what he's doing
You remember LoN and that the loot cards would only be fluf items... nothing more?
If you think it will stay with fluf then you are very naive.
And AA potions is pretty much affecting the game and no fluf.
Cheers
rofl... and I never use anything off of LoN and never play the game. it doesn't effect anything one way or the other.
But it will though and thats the point
This time last year when LoN came about they said nothing would come that would impact the game and low and behold now you can get a house loot card,not game breaking but a huge leap on from what was on offer last year
Whats next? loot level cards?,buy an insta level 80?
People who use this service will want more than fluff soon enough and thats when the goodies will arrive
Kind of a sad development really , I am going to seriously re-think my Station Pass now .. I already pay my subscription and now they want more money from me ?
Why is this such a big deal?
[this is taking from my post on another thread about this]
Now I paid 49.99 for the game 15 bucks a month and lets say I spend 10 dollars a month in the item mall. All those added together comes to me spending $6.50 a week. I play EQ2 about 2.5 hours a day during the week and maybe 4 hours on sat. and sun that is 20.5 hours of entertainment a week. That is less then the cost of going to the movies once a week that is 2 hours of entertainment. That is less then it cost to get even a cheap meal once a week. You can not buy 2 beers out at a bar for that. As for me, 6.50 a week for the fun I am having in the SOE game EQ2 seems like a fantastic bargain. I have many problems with SOE (I am a pissed SWG vet) but the idea of an item mall with cosmetic items, and the marketplace items in EQ2 are cosmetic at least so far, does not bother me at all.
Where else can you get anything close to this for the entertainment value of EQ2 including spending some mony in the item mall? So again how is this so terrible? $6.50 a week for about 20 hours of entertainment (for me, some many more hours) those greedy bastards!
eccoton, I'm not getting it either. I find it annoying but no more than that. If people wnat to waste their cash, let them do it.
Why is that exactly wasting their cash, If they are getting entertainment from it? I hear the following response a lot " Why buy a digital item for real money when it is not even real". Well then why even play the game isn't that the exact same thing? The game is not real either but you are paying a monthy fee to play. Neither are movies or tv shows but you buy a ticket or pay a cable fee. So why is someone buying a cool looking outfit or a potion to speed up there experience a waste of money? Why is paying for one type of virtual experience anymore valid then another? After all, none of it is anything more then images on a screen.
Welcome to a new type purchasing structure for the virtual experience in the 21st century. I actually find it kind of interesting. I think this is less about SOE greed (as some think) and more of them getting their feet wet in the future of online gaming and different payment methods. Just like going to consoles with their mmos The Agency and DC Universe.
They choose EQ and EQ2 because they are stable established games with a pretty loyal player base. This will keep the damage, of pissed players leaving, to a minimum and give them a chance to see if it works. At the same time generating new revinues for games that might not be drawing a lot of new players. I have a feeling more mmos will go this way in the near future. For awhile you will see games like EQ/EQ2 that will have both a monthly fee and a item mall. Eventually the player will move towards the item mall idea and we will see less monthly fees for mmos and more alternative payment methods, like item malls or buying time. I think American mmo players will have a harder time adjusting to this but I think SOE sees this as the future of mmos. They might actually be right about this one.
Kind of a sad development really , I am going to seriously re-think my Station Pass now .. I already pay my subscription and now they want more money from me ?
Why is this such a big deal?
[this is taking from my post on another thread about this]
Now I paid 49.99 for the game 15 bucks a month and lets say I spend 10 dollars a month in the item mall. All those added together comes to me spending $6.50 a week. I play EQ2 about 2.5 hours a day during the week and maybe 4 hours on sat. and sun that is 20.5 hours of entertainment a week. That is less then the cost of going to the movies once a week that is 2 hours of entertainment. That is less then it cost to get even a cheep meal once a week. You can not buy 2 beers out at a bar for that. As for me, 6.50 a week for the fun I am having in the SOE game EQ2 seems like a fantastic bargain. I have many problems with SOE (I am a pissed SWG vet) but the idea of an item mall with cosmetic items, and the marketplace items in EQ2 are cosmetic at least so far, does not bother me at all.
Where else can you get anything close to this for the entertainment value of EQ2 including spending some mony in the item mall? So again how is this so terrible? $6.50 a week for about 20 hours of entertainment (for me, some many more hours) those greedy bastards!
You simply don't get it. It's not even about the money.
It's about real world money dictating in game power. I will not, never, ever, ever, play a game with an item mall, ever. Everything available in game should be obtainable in game. These games should take place in worlds that are completely their own entities, with no influence from the real world at all.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.