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If Ryzom was FFA with item loss would vets still play?
metalhead980
Member Posts: 2,658
You guys know my deal, You know I like ryzom and I have high hopes for the game.
While playing UO (free shard) and Eve I started thinking what Ryzom would be like If people could loot other players and basically fight and kill eachother in any zone that wasnt near a major city.
Right now Ryzom seems to have no economy what so ever. People don't lose Items so crafters have no reason to keep making stuff (except to outfit the rare new guildie).
What If a player could kill you and loot your body or maybe not even loot just make you have a 30% armor decay so you would lose your gear if you died 3-4 times.
Wouldn't this create a need for crafters to make tons of armor and weapons/jewels?
I understand Ryzom is like this hippie friendly, everyone loves everyone game. So im asking the Vets would you still play ryzom if the game was FFApvp with real item loss?
wouldn't this gameplay change give all you big awesome item crafters a reason to make items to fill a large demand instead of just digging and filling up guild halls?
I know not everyone likes pvp... well maybe we can use the factions for this if ur kara or kami your FFA and if neutral you would have to attack a factioned player to flag yourself.
I dont know just a few ideas, let me know what you think. I like ryzom the way it is but imo this pvp change would make the game better for crafters/gathers and pvpers.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Comments
If I wanted to go play Darkfall online, I would go play Darkfall online. Oh wait, it's not out yet. Too bad.
More seriously, though. Through my progression in the game, I've had to replace my gear several times, not only because I outgrew it, but also because it has a tendency to break on you after much usage (especially the hand-me-down pieces). The game has item decay, which is really fine, and its rate is moderate enough in order to not be a royal pain in the butt. I don't know why being killed by a player should make my gear die faster than feeding a spawn of Kinchers. And if there is no other reward than pissing people off, I really don't see the point.
What ruins the economy and makes the dapper worthless is that you have to craft BILLIONS of items in order to become a master crafter, all those items being mostly worthless get sold to the NPC for too many dappers, making some crafters filthy rich in the grinding process. And there aren't many moneysinks to get rid of all those dappers.
Introducing FFA-PvP with loot wouldn't solve the issue, it would only generate new ones. Why would crafters spend their time looking for the best ingredients and make good gear if it's to get it stolen away ? Some of those mats are already hard to obtain. They probably wouldn't bother anymore and just craft "OK" gear which is much easier to produce. Loot doesn't make gear dissapear, merely change hands. I've heard a saying in MMOs : "If your able to beat your opponent to steal his gear, you should probably reconsider wearing it." People would become more paranoid and disgruntled. I REALLY don't want Ryzom's community to turn into another AoC's. I hated every single moment of that jackassery and am glad that there IS a game with a community such as Ryzom's. Games that gives you the opportunity to be an ass will attract asses. The game makes the community.
Implementation of major PvP content in the past has driven more people away from Ryzom than it has attracted. A massive exodus. PvP is consensual and should remain that way. I have nothing against giving more incentives to tag up and PvP for their faction, but they should still have the CHOICE to do so. Fame and honor points that let you access special plans and consumables, looting dappers maybe, why not, even I would be tempted to tag up. It might even be fun.
In the FFA-PvP perspective, newbies, for whom the game is already very hard, would never have any decent survivable chance. For the sake of the game's survival, we want them to stay, not bully them away.
Even if you launched a new server with that ruleset, I really doubt it would ever be as popular as the main one. Atys is a dangerous and hostile planet. For years, homins have learned to cooperate. Who doesn't know that being in a constant war makes them vulnerable to the Kitin threath and exposes them to a potential extinction ?
---------
Sherkalyn
Crazy Marshmallow Lady
Guild Leader of The Exodus Syndicate in Ryzom
"Experience Perfection :: Unharness Your Power"
www.exodusgs.com
Any other vets wanna chime in? Or maybe I should just edit/delete the thread if the rest of you are going to suprise me with idiot comments like sherk did.
HEY! I have a better idea maybe you guys could give some of your own ideas on how to give ryzom an actual player driven economy cause a sandbox with no economy doesnt really work to well.
Edit: If your going to be a ass don't bother posting I expected more out of the ryzom community.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Any other vets wanna chime in? Or maybe I should just edit/delete the thread if the rest of you are going to suprise me with idiot comments like sherk did.
HEY! I have a better idea maybe you guys could give some of your own ideas on how to give ryzom an actual player driven economy cause a sandbox with no economy doesnt really work to well.
Edit: If your going to be a ass don't bother posting I expected more out of the ryzom community.
Well, i don't want to see you so angry. Sherkalyn exposed his opinion, why you react in this way? He think different from you, that's all.
Since yo asked more opinions, i have no fear so I give you mine.
I'm not contrary to ffa pvp in general.
It can work, but personally when someone speak about FFA PvP my memory jumps immediately to Sartok, Vanguard, where the server is almost empty while the PvE servers got a decent if not good population.
Is that casual? Is it because the game is named Vanguard? Maybe, maybe not.
The history of Ryzom speak by itself: as Sherk remembered, The Temple Event draw away a lot of people and even the announcement of Spires, with more pvp (despite not ffa) made a lot of people posting a lot of complaints around that idea. Personally i liked the region control using the towers, as long as it does not limit the pve content (ie: if it prevent me to use a specific teleport it's ok, if it prevent me to enter an entire region, it's not).
I like PvP, i do when it's needed and with a reason. I could even play in a ffa pvp Ryzom. But i don't think it will increase population, it will just change population in the best case.
About losing gear: I think you really don't know all the effort you need to do a full boosted pvp set. It is not just to make some raid (and maybe instanced?) to get the epic stuff. You need to pvp (i could say pvpve using a term invented for Aion and already real in Ryzom) to get supreme mats, you need to own an Outpost, and a good one, you need a lot of mats to make it, because of the low chance and the partial control of the boost you have.
I understand your point: if you don't want to lose your gear, don't lose the fights! In Ryzom? With an environment so hard and so easy to turn against the enemy? We already got a lot of complaints with the aggro dragging now, with this kind of pvp, what would happens with a ffa behaviour? And, anyway, 99% of the loot would be focus gear, cheap and not worth a fight, because you can really gank only diggers while you cannot be sure of the strength of an opponent in Ryzom. There is no level shown in the target window and the title can be fake.
I'm sorry, but i think ffa pvp with full loot would kill the game (don't stop now! read till the end... it's 6 am here and i'm too tired to re sort the post).
About the economy: really we don't need to invent the wheel. The problem in Ryzom is that everything is too cheap:
1. to make a guild you need only 250k dappers (or 100k? don't remember now)
2. Guild Hall has no upkeep
3. Outposts have no upkeep
4. Apartments have no upkeep
5. OP Wars are cheap too (NPC Guards etc...)
In Anarchy Online (very old) to build and maintain a City you need billions money. In City of Heroes, if you want a real good Base you need a lot of people playing for months to afford it. This is just an example.
All said that, the higher decay of gear in case you lose a pvp fight (that means a respawn) sounds a good idea to me.
But, speaking of pvp, this need some sort of rewards in case of a win. Otherwise nothing would be really different apart of having hard time to do many Op wars in short time (that could be good tho: people would think more and better before declaring a war).
So, in the end, even if i don't agree about full loot, i agree that we need some sort of incentive to make pvp more interesting and more rewarding but i don't think it's really needed to fix the economy, despite it can be useful for.
I could accept even full or partial loot if we inroduce a sort of 'insurance' to protect from loot, with different prices, depending of the items you wanna protect (i'm not speaking of any sort of 'soulbound' or similar, just a place where you can do that, maybe even fame/race related.... the more i write the more things jumps in my mind).
Well, i would write at least other 2-3 pages but this would be a real reader ganking so i stop now, there is no full loot here so no point to continue
Nickname registered on www.mynickname.org
I used Darkfall as an example, I could have used EvE, but Darkfall was the game that, to me, resembles the most what Ryzom would look like with a FFA system. I didn't say "go play wow". WoW wouldn't fit the description you propose anyways. I just don't want to play a Ryzom version of another game, I play Ryzom because it IS Ryzom.
Of course, if you expect everyone to absolutely agree 100 % with your ideas, you are going to be disappointed. And just because you don't like my observations doesn't mean they were completely idiotic. I'm basing them on what I observed in Ryzom, AoC (on a FFA-PvP server) and other PvP games which had pretty horrible communities.
You come here proposing a radical change : FFA-PvP, which by definition IS forced and imposed on everybody. Factionnal tagged PvP is NOT FFA, by the way. Just ask the older veterans how many people left just over the Temple Wars, and it wasn't FFA either. You don't impose an FFA-System on an already existing community, it has to be there from the start or not at all. Unless of course, you want a huge mob of angry customers that used to be your loyal and dedicated fanbase to leave just like what happened during the Temple War. A radical system of FFA-PvP wouldn't be welcomed by the large majority of the existing player base.
Ryzom is already hard and complicated for the majority of gamers, if you introduce an even harsher system of item destruction + loot... I ask you how are we supposed to attract people and make the game appealing to them, the general crowd. The possibility of breaking and looting other people's stuff, even if only part of it, only attracts griefers and people who don't care about making others miserable as long as it profits them. The perspective of getting the fruit of your hard work destroyed or stolen never attracts anyone, unless you know a wide potential market for masochists that I've never heard of. It wouldn't attract many people and would make even more leave. I'm speaking here only of the FFA-PvP with loot and/or destruction of items, not the more moderate options.
And yes, crafters do make too many items, there would never be enough players to buy and use all of them, even with accelerated decay. If all items had to be sold to players, the market would be flooded with poor-quality items from grinding, and the major item sink would be them timing out after a week, not destruction or decay. Less items to vendor and real money sinks (like the ones mentionned by Gilgameesh) would make dappers more valuable and I wouldn't always carry 5+ millions on me at all time. And that's not even a lot by current Ryzom standards. Some guilds have billions in their bank.
You want to fix the economy, fine. Who doesn't ? But you ask the Vets, and, although I don't pretend to be one, I still think that FFA-PvP is not the only solution. You want to attack me and call me an idiot because I disagree, say that the Vets are asses because they wouldn't want it ? Go ahead, but I sincerely doubt that it will make your ideas get an easier approval.
A player driven economy is something that is very difficult to implement and balance ; most devs disregard it, some people even call it a myth. SWG used to have one ; the NGE destroyed it. The fact that nearly every piece of gear on Atys is player crafted is already a step on the right direction, making money by crafting instead of losing it is another (AoC's crafting system made you lose/waste money), decay is another, but maybe the fact of dying in itself should make it a little faster without being exaggerate. What is lacking is a true money sink that makes dappers really useful.
---------
Sherkalyn
Crazy Marshmallow Lady
Guild Leader of The Exodus Syndicate in Ryzom
"Experience Perfection :: Unharness Your Power"
www.exodusgs.com
Would I play Ryzom if it were FFA? No!
Would FFA fix the economy? No!
Would partial or even full loot give crafters a reason to make and sell more items? No!
Fixing the Ryzom economy is not as easy as introducing PvP looting, It'll take more than faster item decay. As it is major changes would have to be made to make a working economy. Diggers need to dig to level; so they generate fast amounts of materials they either sell or use for crafting. Crafters need to craft to level so they generate fast amounts of items they usually sell. Diggers and crafters get rich.
Right now a lot of crafters as so rich they don't sell items, they give them away...
Money sinks would be the only way to get the dappers flowing but they still wouldn't make the economy work. The current game mechanics ensure that there will always be a large surplus of items and money. You simply can't level any skill without getting items so supply always exceeds demand...
I'd probably play if it was FFA, though full item looting is a bit rough (especially with 6 months of grind going into making 1 npc set)
I dont know what you mean by no economy other than there is not "dapper" economy, many people buy my stuff off me as they know I make only good stuff and dont bother making people grind stuff.
I understand where you are coming from but think generally you caught ryzom at a bad time, at its peak there was all out war for resources and outposts and much passion on both sides. Thats what many are trying to re-kindle and if it was like that you really dont need FFA to boost the game so to speak.
hope that makes sense mate
Also to add to what they have said against FFA-PVP. The only players to get attacked regularly would be Diggers which would drive away the Diggers/Crafters because why digg when you gotta constantly watch over your shoulder for players, right now digging in certain areas is hard enough to do just with aggro mobs walking about. And there would be a mass exodus because of the non-consentual PVP and I for one being a SWG vet would leave just because of the radical changes to the game! To me PVP is not the fix all this game needs to attract new players. To make the game more attractive there needs to be more content added, the rites need to be fixed, the devs need to open up new lands, add more levels, and maybe make the item decay work faster to get more people buying stuff as in the more you use stuff the faster it waers out like digging picks and crafting tools but maybe not quite that fast.
And to be totally honest the reference that Sherk made in her first post about Darkfall is true! Don't make this game like another to "fix" it, just work on what you have, add more content, and do minor adjustments to the mechanics as needed. Like I said above about SWG holds true if you change a game radically you will loose more than you gain.
Well I was hoping for a decent convo on changes to economy.
Item decay/loss is only one option.
I was hoping for some vets to chime in with maybe a few Ideas on how we could fix whats clearly broken atm.
I didn't expect someone to peg me as a darkfall fanboi, and just cause I asked about a FFApvp mechanic doesn't mean I want Ryzom to play like DF. I took "if i wanted to play DF I would play DF" as a direct insult tbh.
Right now imo, ryzom needs a better way to actually sell shit, right now noone needs anything through trade.
Right now it suxs to be a crafter in this game, all I could do is make stuff for guildies. theres no market for anything.
Vendoring items 100% of the time is lame imo.
I don't care if someone has a different opinion as my own, I just can't stand people labeling me as a fanboi of a particular game. If I wanted Ryzom to be like DF I would have added that in my post.
I normally wouldn't have gotten so pissed at that DF comment if I didn't actually respect the Ryzom community as much as I do. I expected to come here, ask a question and have a mature conversation.
Anyway... Maybe noone is buying anything due to the very small community in the game. Hopefully once the game has more players the game will actually have a market.
Just seems like a shame to have such a good crafting/gathering system to just vendor everything you make.
Look at a game like WoW, Its crafting is souless due to 95% of the items made just get directly sold to vendor, noone needs anything in that game.
I expect more in a sandbox tbh.
The ryzom devs have a huge obsticle to overcome if they want to make Ryzom have a functional economy.
It would probably require retuning the whole way crafting is done.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Well I would like to thank everyone for thier input.
I personally like most of the features in ryzom.
Crafting, gathering, skill system, friendly community, World graphics and AI design.
MY only gripe with the game is lack of economy (which wouldnt bother me if i didnt enjoy selling stuff) and the lack of optional content/events (being adressed).
I guess it could be worse right? we could have a mess like AoC on our hands.
I probably will sub to the game to check out the events, but I have no clue how the game will hold me if i cant be a crafter/trader since there's no market to sell to.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
"I didn't expect someone to peg me as a darkfall fanboi, and just cause I asked about a FFApvp mechanic doesn't mean I want Ryzom to play like DF. I took "if i wanted to play DF I would play DF" as a direct insult tbh."
Maybe you took it a bit too personnal, then, because I never actually called you a Darkfall fanboi. However, I do think that the similarity was there. The sandbox MMO with FFA and loot that is most hyped at the moment : Darkfall. It's not necessarly a bad MMO, hell, if it's what it pretends to be, it's way better than most of the clones that recently released, but it's still not the kind of game I want to play. Sorry if my comment offended you, it wasn't intended, but I think you might be overreacting a bit.
Now, the reason why nobody buys anything with dappers is the fact that 1) They can get it for free from a guildie or a friend. 2) Most crafters prefer being paid in mats or cats which are more useful to them than dappers. I'm one of the rare ones who sometimes puts ammo on the Pyr market that is better, lighter and cheaper (15% profit) than the NPC's. Who buys it ? No one. Most rangers dig and craft their own ammo and they learn to do so at very early stages, otherwise, they'd ruin themselves.
The merchant system does need an overhaul. And the leveling of digging and crafting as well. Crafting so many items just to gain levels that get directly vendored (just think jewel and armour crafts, all those branches to raise in order to really be efficient, those thousands of items crafted and vendored) kills the economy right from the beginning. If crafting better items gave you better XP, no one would feel the need to produce hundreads upon hundreads of crap gear just to vendor it and would actually gather good materials to produce good gear even if they aren't masters yet. But since a regular craft at the appropriate level never gives you the same XP as a 3k kill, EVEN with cats, you HAVE to produce thousands of rubbish items to progress...
And the digging curve below lvl 50 is brutally slow. You get XP depending on the number and quality of mats you extract... 4 q30 mats is really low XP, even for a beginner that needs less XP to gain levels, and filling a bag at that speed is just downright painful. Past 100 it just gets faster and faster, but you still have to dig more and more mats exponentially, to the point that your craft sometimes outlevel your dig, so you have to dig extra and either trade/sell or grind another branch. So the lowbies are poor and can't buy shit and lvl 200+ are crazy rich, yet they still don't spend anything because most of them already have trading contacts which won't charge them a single dapper. If the XP curve on crafting gets fixed, the digging one will need to be fixed as well... being a master digger doesn't have much to do with the number of mats you extract from the 2-3 same spots during 250 levels.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to dumb it down, the complexity of the system needs to remain the same, the quantity of mats and crafts required need to go down for an economic balance between supply and demand. Increase the base XP to lower the quantity. It's logical, no ? Infinite supply with no demand makes a broken economy. It would probably make digging and crafting much more enjoyable to level and encourage crafters to produce good items at their levels instead of waiting for their master, since they wouldn't have to worry so much about quantity.
Some people even whine that decay is bad because it makes them lose their gear... or because they have to farm gold for hours to repair their gear after raiding a single instance. Decay and destruction is necessary to keep the demand going, that's a fact. You need to make it fast enough so that the items get replaced every other week, but slow enough that it doesn't break every other day and become tedious.
Aside from the possible moneysinks mentionned by Gilgameesh, expensive consumables (that help without being absolutely a necessity) and fashion items would make nice dapper sinks. The "wheel of misfortune" was a failure because the "click and wait" makes it more annoying than anything. Put those items in a store for crazy amounts of dappers, some of them for a limited amount of time or quantity, and watch the dappers vanish in smoke. People WILL buy fireworks for their events and parties, they WILL spend 25 millions to buy a plushie Yubo, they just don't have 2 hours to spend clicking on a stupid wheel. Hell, organise auction events and destroy the dappers, if necessary.
*Wall of texts hits you for over 9000 damage*
---------
Sherkalyn
Crazy Marshmallow Lady
Guild Leader of The Exodus Syndicate in Ryzom
"Experience Perfection :: Unharness Your Power"
www.exodusgs.com
That might be true but if I hadn't I'd never gotten any crafting skill leveled and neither would anyone else because the 0.001% of the items that do get crafted to be used aren't enough to even get to level 1. Besides I think it's safe to say that in Ryzom the majority of players are crafter/diggers there's simply no way you can come up with enough money sinks to make them spend even a fraction of the dappers they accumulate over time....
I could be wrong but I think crafters in Rzyom craft because they enjoy crafting and if they occasionally craft stuff that acually gets used that only makes it better
. But as I've stated before in order to get to the put where you can actually craft the good stuff you'll have to produce loads and loads of junk.
As to accusing you of being a Darkfall fanboi, I don't think anyone did. DF was used, I thought, as an example of a FFA MMO and the reason that was is probably due to the rather vocal following (trying to put it politely) it has here.
I feel your pain but fixing Ryzom's economy is a lot harder than it seems....
I would leave real fast if PvP was mandatory in all high level zones. Personally I love the PvE.
A balanced OP war is a very great experience. Unfortunately most OP battles are not that close. If there was a way to have balanced sides it would be great. Maybe have 2 recognized leaders choose players 1 by 1 into sides and fight for some OP mats with no OP controll in the balance -- sort of an event say 3 times a week. But that would probably detract from having OP battles for control of OPs.
As for all those dappers not sure if making them worth something would really help the game. But say have extra storage space for rent would be great for crafters. Maybe have CATs that are buyable or maybe even OP mats that can be bought for ridiculous sums -- say 100M a piece.
As for gear wearing out, I think they got a good decay rate right now. You probably have no idea whatsoever of what goes into having a really good piece of equipment made. Hey not even sure if I really do but since i do dig SUPs and help take down Boss's I do have some idea.
Personally i think expanding the encyclopedia rites to make players have to do quests ( trial missions ) would enhance the gameplay and get the players to more fully experience Ryzom rather than just grind skill levels.
And do something to get more balanced PvP fights would be awesome.
And hopefully the return of Events will invigorate the game too
Metalhead, dear, you took offense at a comment that wasn't meant to be offensive. The comparison to DF is pretty appropriate, really. Be calm, my friend, Sherk was not insulting you, at all.
By the way, I'll be in DF myself the minute I can get my grubby wee paws on it.
As to the discussion you wanted:
Does FFA-PvP always mean a**holes in the community? As far as I can tell, yes. It draws them like flies to sh*t, from a world away. That's why such a game will never be my main game, but a side entertainment only.
What you describe further down is not FFA, but consensual, and that's just fine with me, you might have some good ideas there. I don't much enjoy PvP myself, but have no issue with others enjoying it around me, and I do join in from time to time. I hear the tales of increased enjoyment from having to be afraid of gankers all the time, but it makes no joy for me. When I see someone I want to meet them, not fear them.
The money economy is broken. That's why we trade mats instead of using money. I'd love to see some things to fix that, but it's a delicate thing. It could easily get broken even worse. The idea of maintenance fees for guild halls, OPs, and so on sounds like it might be a start.
If you aren't wearing your gear out, you aren't using it enough.
Full loot PvP would destroy Ryzom's crafting rather than help it. Full loot means only an idiot uses good gear, so what you encourage is mass production of crap gear. That's fine if it's what the game was intended to be (dare I say Darkfall?) but Ryzom's crafting is at its very best when going through the incredible challenge of experimenting to find the best recipes and struggling to find the mats for those recipes, and then crating that once in a lifetime item or set. The only problem I see with the crafting is the economy, and then only in terms of worthless dappers, not the real economy of barter and trade.
So to answer your main question, would I still play Ryzom if the dev team abandoned the entire intent of the game and their own stated intentions and turned it into a FFA PvP game similar to some other game I won't mention for fear of insulting you? (:p)
Yeah, for a while, but I'd be hunting a new home. I like being a hippie chick filled with peace and love. Most of the time. Come back to Atys and I'll FFA hug you.
Ryzom is not a true "sandbox" anything goes game. It was never intended to be. Ryzom was intended to be a real-time(ish) story-driven game, and the sooner it returns to those roots [sic] the better. Darkfall and Eve are or will be more of the "anything goes" game, and are designed for it. I hope DF does well, I hope I enjoy it, but I don't really want Ryzom to be that sort of game. Variety is good.
Oh, and Gil, Sherkalyn is a gurlie, too, hun. "She", not "he".
===============================
Sasi
Guild Leader of Pegasus Foundation
in Ryzom
Apparently, for some people, I'm "too cool to be a chick".
Or so someone told me. Wouldn't be the first time I'm mistaken for a guy, even IRL, sometimes even by my childhood friends. 
So I shrugged it off and didn't mention it, as I thought it'd be off topic anyways.
Full loot PvP would destroy Ryzom's crafting rather than help it. Full loot means only an idiot uses good gear, so what you encourage is mass production of crap gear. That's fine if it's what the game was intended to be (dare I say Darkfall?) but Ryzom's crafting is at its very best when going through the incredible challenge of experimenting to find the best recipes and struggling to find the mats for those recipes, and then crating that once in a lifetime item or set.
Either I'm not crazy or we are both, because we are thinking the same thing, but I got called silly for mentionning it.
Digging supremes in PR and hunting bosses is a competition : you need to get there first to get the mats. In case of boss mats, the boss doesn't always drop the parts you want, and it's still gone for 2-4 days afterwards. So getting the larger quantities necessary for a ful set of gear can be quite hectic. That's what makes the achievement though.
---------
Sherkalyn
Crazy Marshmallow Lady
Guild Leader of The Exodus Syndicate in Ryzom
"Experience Perfection :: Unharness Your Power"
www.exodusgs.com
Nah, full loot is not so great if the grind is bad. And in Ryzom the grind is pretty bad.
Oh, I was so amazed having a topic with smart answers and jumped on this, usual people that loves teaching others how they should have fun. Lucky for me and most of us, we don't need any lesson to learn how we want the fun in a game. Another people that should grow, and a lot.
x "she": I apologize
. I'll go feeding some vorax to punish myself.... 
Nickname registered on www.mynickname.org
Oh, I was so amazed having a topic with smart answers and jumped on this, usual people that loves teaching others how they should have fun. Lucky for me and most of us, we don't need any lesson to learn how we want the fun in a game. Another people that should grow, and a lot.
x "she": I apologize
. I'll go feeding some vorax to punish myself.... 
I would answer... but since I have no fucking clue what your rant is about, I'll let it go...
learn2english
Oh, I was so amazed having a topic with smart answers and jumped on this, usual people that loves teaching others how they should have fun. Lucky for me and most of us, we don't need any lesson to learn how we want the fun in a game. Another people that should grow, and a lot.
x "she": I apologize . I'll go feeding some vorax to punish myself....
I would answer... but since I have no fucking clue what your rant is about, I'll let it go...
learn2english
He complimented a few people on their thoughtful responses, and noted that many of us seek the positives in the things we do. He then made a politely oblique comment regarding your reply, suggesting that if you were to approach things differently you might enjoy them more.
Finally, he apologized to Sherkalyn for mistaking her gender, and made a humorous offer of penance.
Gil does not hail from an English speaking country, but he makes a heroic effort to communicate with those of us who cannot understand his native language. He does so with enough consideration and insight that I expect he is quite eloquent in his own tongue. You might consider taking a lesson from his example.
learn2english indeed.
===============================
Sasi
Guild Leader of Pegasus Foundation
in Ryzom
Oh, I was so amazed having a topic with smart answers and jumped on this, usual people that loves teaching others how they should have fun. Lucky for me and most of us, we don't need any lesson to learn how we want the fun in a game. Another people that should grow, and a lot.
x "she": I apologize . I'll go feeding some vorax to punish myself....
I would answer... but since I have no fucking clue what your rant is about, I'll let it go...
learn2english
He complimented a few people on their thoughtful responses, and noted that many of us seek the positives in the things we do. He then made a politely oblique comment regarding your reply, suggesting that if you were to approach things differently you might enjoy them more.
Finally, he apologized to Sherkalyn for mistaking her gender, and made a humorous offer of penance.
Gil does not hail from an English speaking country, but he makes a heroic effort to communicate with those of us who cannot understand his native language. He does so with enough consideration and insight that I expect he is quite eloquent in his own tongue. You might consider taking a lesson from his example.
learn2english indeed.
Ah yes, I see that now, thank you. Too bad I've never criticized Ryzom, I actually enjoyed it somewhat during my short visit (short due to lack of real PvP). The grind is pretty bad in Ryzom, that's my opinion. If my opinion offends someone, they can go tell about it to someone who gives a flying fuck. To put it eloquently.
FYI, I don't hail from an English speaking country either.
Oh, I was so amazed having a topic with smart answers and jumped on this, usual people that loves teaching others how they should have fun. Lucky for me and most of us, we don't need any lesson to learn how we want the fun in a game. Another people that should grow, and a lot.
x "she": I apologize . I'll go feeding some vorax to punish myself....
I would answer... but since I have no fucking clue what your rant is about, I'll let it go...
learn2english
He complimented a few people on their thoughtful responses, and noted that many of us seek the positives in the things we do. He then made a politely oblique comment regarding your reply, suggesting that if you were to approach things differently you might enjoy them more.
Finally, he apologized to Sherkalyn for mistaking her gender, and made a humorous offer of penance.
Gil does not hail from an English speaking country, but he makes a heroic effort to communicate with those of us who cannot understand his native language. He does so with enough consideration and insight that I expect he is quite eloquent in his own tongue. You might consider taking a lesson from his example.
learn2english indeed.
Ah yes, I see that now, thank you. Too bad I've never criticized Ryzom, I actually enjoyed it somewhat during my short visit (short due to lack of real PvP). The grind is pretty bad in Ryzom, that's my opinion. If my opinion offends someone, they can go tell about it to someone who gives a flying fuck. To put it eloquently.
FYI, I don't hail from an English speaking country either.
LOL! I found If you just enjoy Ryzom and play with friends the game doesn't really feel like a grind. If all you do is play solo trying to get your skills to 250 ten plus hours a day ryzom with burn you out and make you feel like its a F2p grinder.
Edit: Didn't realize Sherk was a female. Anyway the Darkfall remark wouldn't of bugged me so much normally, Was just having a bad day.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
"The grind is pretty bad in Ryzom" might be interpreted as criticism, but there's nothing wrong with criticism. I believe Gilgameesh's reply to your initial post was not intended to deny you your opinion, but rather to point out that many who come to that conclusion, including some long-time players, have missed the point of the game. Nonetheless, honest opinions are not a problem, and indeed, Ryzom does not the suit the tastes of every player. You are entitled to play whatever game you prefer, and are not required to enjoy Ryzom.
"The grind" in Ryzom is a matter that gets much discussion, but it's pointless to belabor it with someone who doesn't care. You made your unsupported deific proclamation and so it shall be.
For those of you who "give a flying ****", be aware that the players of Ryzom tend to appreciate intelligent, respectful debate and discussion, but are not so hospitable to rudeness. It's a game that very nearly requires participating in the community on some level, so good social skills can be important to your success. Sort of like life.
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Sasi
Guild Leader of Pegasus Foundation
in Ryzom
"The grind is pretty bad in Ryzom" might be interpreted as criticism, but there's nothing wrong with criticism. I believe Gilgameesh's reply to your initial post was not intended to deny you your opinion, but rather to point out that many who come to that conclusion, including some long-time players, have missed the point of the game. Nonetheless, honest opinions are not a problem, and indeed, Ryzom does not the suit the tastes of every player. You are entitled to play whatever game you prefer, and are not required to enjoy Ryzom.
"The grind" in Ryzom is a matter that gets much discussion, but it's pointless to belabor it with someone who doesn't care. You made your unsupported deific proclamation and so it shall be.
For those of you who "give a flying ****", be aware that the players of Ryzom tend to appreciate intelligent, respectful debate and discussion, but are not so hospitable to rudeness. It's a game that very nearly requires participating in the community on some level, so good social skills can be important to your success. Sort of like life.
Sasi, I admire the way you always stay polite and civil even when others aren't. It's humbling to those of us who sometimes loose their temper (guilty as charged...)
Ah, if only you could see all the posts I didn't submit...
But thank you. My boundless respect for the rest of you fine homins is a great motivator for me. You deserve my best effort.
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Sasi
Guild Leader of Pegasus Foundation
in Ryzom
You don't need to feed the Voraxes, Gil, they are fat enough. Unless you want to feed them with some trolls, of course. Even better if it makes them die of an indigestion... nasty beasties.
I'm usually having too much fun to realise that the game does have a lot of grind, or I manage to distract myself from it. Otherwise, like others mentionned, I would probably burn out as well. I play to have fun. Level 250 will come at some point along the way.
I really doubt that FFA would help Ryzom in any way. Some PvP addicts say that there is "no real PvP", I'd rather say that there is no incentive for purposeless PvP and that it is generally parcticed as "end-game" since a lowbie doesn't get much of a chance agains't a fully geared multi-master. Ganking is frowned upon, it's true, especially if there is no other purpose than making people angry. We are past the stage of "I 0wnz joo". I have seen rivalries and factionnal tagged skirmishes, I have seen massive outpost battles. It's just that, lately, they happen when I'm not available or I learn about them too late (afterwards).
To take part in massive PvP, you need to mingle with the community and keep yourself informed. The other option is to gank people in Prime Roots, but then expect some form of dispproval, especially if you are only there to bully harvesters, hunters and trekkers with no other purpose than killing them for the sake of killing them. And then, maybe being infamous will bring you some kind of challenge IF people have enough time on their hands to bother retaliating and chasing you.
You'll probably get eaten by the local fauna anyways.
But thank you. My boundless respect for the rest of you fine homins is a great motivator for me. You deserve my best effort.Originally posted by Sasi
Sasi should really be the ambassador of the Ryzom community. We need more people like her, really.
Even I manage to offend people without even intending to.
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Sherkalyn
Crazy Marshmallow Lady
Guild Leader of The Exodus Syndicate in Ryzom
"Experience Perfection :: Unharness Your Power"
www.exodusgs.com