I think all the kids here are mad that Warhammer requires a bit higher end computer than the one needed for their High School Musical WoW game. Also with amazing patch yesterday, Warhammer is becoming a very awsome game.
Mythic is Listening to it's player base.
And yea, if you stand still and stare at WE or WH they will kill you. I play your counterpart a DoK. I am Same as you and I can kill a WH as long as I play circle attack dance with them, and turn around when they are behind me.
And yea, if you stand still and stare at WE or WH they will kill you. I play your counterpart a DoK. I am Same as you and I can kill a WH as long as I play circle attack dance with them, and turn around when they are behind me.
I thought strafing was classed as a broken PvP mechanic? Or maybe that's just in WoW and it's OK for other games...
And yea, if you stand still and stare at WE or WH they will kill you. I play your counterpart a DoK. I am Same as you and I can kill a WH as long as I play circle attack dance with them, and turn around when they are behind me.
I thought strafing was classed as a broken PvP mechanic? Or maybe that's just in WoW and it's OK for other games...
Well I don't really know what you mean by a broken pvp mechanic, circle straffing has been around since you could LAN Doom or use link cables on the PS1. And I don't get into reply fights becuase it's really pointless. So with that ..Have Fun!
I do not think the game is broken beyond repair. That being said, I believe the game may be beyond repopulation. They are doing wonders to try and salvage the game, and I give them credit for that. But one has to wonder how many people would be willing to revisit the game in a few months when there are more games on the market like Darkfall and Aion. In the case of Aion, it will have the benefit of being ironed out before it gets here since it came out in Korea first. In the case of Darkfall, the game is directly targeted at people who like PvP, something Warhammer Online has been fumbling a lot with.
.....Your theory fails....you knwo Darkfall is directly targeted at Hardcore FFA PvP Players which is an entirely diferent set of PVP type from RvR Players. I love RvR but I loathe FFA PVP and have absolutely no interested at all in Darkfall or Aion. Warhammer was pissing me off due to the lack of draw to the ORvR lakes but the new patch is bringing me back into the game. I've not played in 4 weeks and im excited to go home tonight and Waaagh! All night long.
Darkfall PvP and Warhammer RvR are NOT the same thing and do not attract the same players. While SOME players swing either way there are plenty that do not. PvP is multi faceted shoving every game with a PvP label on it into the same catagory is retarded. Warhammer has NEVER tried to attract the hardcore FFA set.
And yea, if you stand still and stare at WE or WH they will kill you. I play your counterpart a DoK. I am Same as you and I can kill a WH as long as I play circle attack dance with them, and turn around when they are behind me.
I thought strafing was classed as a broken PvP mechanic? Or maybe that's just in WoW and it's OK for other games...
strafing has never been broken in WAR people just forget that there's Collision detection there for they can't strafe / circle strafe their way through a crowd. Essentially its a tactic that works best in small skrimishes or catching someone by themselves. Using it while taking a keep or in a huge area with lots of people around each other is next to impossible.
Never play an EA game, they screw it up every time, every game they make. yes yes they make a lot of games and had some some good ideas. You look at EA and the games they make and they don't last long cuz EA needs a new money fix. EA is pure business and the ppl running EA do not feel passionate about games being made and how they can last a long time even if it means not making money. EA is all about the money and when the money is not there they shoot out a new game an xpac or a better version that just goes to waste. In short WH is a good idea but it wont last long seeing the money is leaving this game faster then the french off a battlefield.
Not true at all, NHL serie are the best game ever and made by EA sport.
Darkfall PvP and Warhammer RvR are NOT the same thing and do not attract the same players. While SOME players swing either way there are plenty that do not. PvP is multi faceted shoving every game with a PvP label on it into the same catagory is retarded. Warhammer has NEVER tried to attract the hardcore FFA set
I guess you're one of the few people who has never seen Mythic's PR campaign blitz months leading up to release? The one where they touted War as "war all the time, everywhere", etc? With classes that are absolutely 'badass''Clint Eastwood like' and can rip your head off while wearing the baddest leathers and skulls, and vaporize you and etc etc etc? Hmm.. Well, you can still go back and check all the viral PR vids they did because you must be the only one who missed it. That sure didn't sound like they were after the 'casual' PvP crowd when Mythic was doing it.
It was marketed at the PvP fan who was tired of 'candyland PvP' played in WoW and other games; the semi and hardcore pvp player. They didn't want just the 'urine-in-the-bottle' guys, but they meant all the people who claim they are the best at this/that in a PvP world using skills, not gear. Not just realm. Realm was part of the themepark attraction to give them a bigger killing table and to the casuals who weren't used to that type of stuff. Mythic wanted people who mainly thought of THEMSELVES as the hardcore pvp types, not carebears from Wow. How you argue with this in the face of all their video evidence is astonishing.
I actually think Paragus is pretty dead on in his assessment. War rushed to market when they didn't have to which created most of its own PvP problems. Now that there are more PvP type games coming out, they will have to worry about that market, as well as the people so turned off by this 'intense' style of pvp that they might just check out a FFA PvP world like Darkfall, where in the past they never thought they would.
I'd have to agree mostly with Paragus here and say your theory fails in the face of plenty of evidence to the contrary.
Im getting sick of these "warhammer sux" posts or "wow sux" or "everquest2 sux" . I say as i say about every game the same dudes and dudettes jump on, find another game if you dont like it, its not going to change into something you will like if your already set on its going to suck. And it will not change just cos you cry over it. Fine if Warhammer was unplayable or if had some buggs that were ground breaking but it hasent, its not aoc or vanguard when it launched.
all im trying to say is if you dont like it, dont play it. If you like it play it.But i dont think anyone are going to come to this posted and with some magical answer get to change your mind about the game. Cos the sad truth is the ppl that are playing the game dont want ppl that complain about the game in the game.
And as far as the population they are working on it, and making free tranfers so you can move you charecter to another server with more population. and they know the server problems and they say the know and they are working on it. If you can wait for it to happened freeze your acount and come back later.
"The client that runs this game is pathetic. You advertised 'massive' PvP battles. What is 'massive' to you? 12v12 in a Scenario? Check the posts on the fan sites regarding the latest 1.1 patch - nothing has changed with characters being attacked by invisibles, and others are constantly appearing and disappearing. You have fixed nothing, and this shows that you have zero clue as to what the problem is. You are just stumbling around in the dark trying to fix performance and all you are doing, is breaking everything else into the bargain." <---- I was in a full warband fighting order that had atleast 30-40 players comming at us, isent that a massive battle? And 90% of the players i was with wasent even in a Guild. And this was at night not peak hour. Dont say stupid things like there isent any massive battles, if you arent in massive battle then you chose not to be in one. And btw since the patch that bosted orvr it have been alot more, i can easly find a warband to take over a castle in under 2 mins if i want.
I must say after all my hope and positive thoughts; to see what this has turned out to be has crushed many of us who know Warhammer lore, were promised a Warhammer experience and that Warhammer Online would NOT be like any other MMO....I so hoped and stood behind them, but this was the straw that broke the camels back....
FROM TODAY'S Grab BAG
Q. Can you comment on the general difficulty of the dungeons such as Bilerot Burrow and Bloodwrought Enclave? As it stands now, it seems as though the outcome of the fight is way too dependent on the gear of the tank rather than player skill.
A. Everyone in your group SHOULD HAVE at least a few pieces of the appropriately warded gear. If you don’t, then it is likely that you won’t succeed. If you do, then for example with the Bile Lord, you have to skillfully avoid the pestilent puddles, wrangle up the adds, ensure Nurglings don’t die near him (it enrages him), be on point with curing the DoTs, burn his intestines down fast enough, etc. However, just as with any fight, if you are over-geared (i.e. have a full greater ward set) then a group might be able to just weather the damage and burn him down quick enough to avoid any major hiccups.
The game of bloodhsed, War everywhere...I don't see it- ever. I see trading keeps for gold loot bags and scenarios which are completely unbalanced and badly designed and the actual designed need for gear to participate in boss fights to win. (What happened to our NPC's to help keep "balance" Mark!?)
Probably not the time to nerf in a business sense. People will leave in droves if WEs are nerfed. Nerfing makes people mad. If WAR were healthier, they could nerf WEs.
People will leave in even greater droves when order quits and destruction has no one to gank, which is happening now. While I do not think the game is broken beynond repair it is unbalanced. Mythic needs to stop listening to the littel kiddies on the destruction side demanding the I win button and actualy try and balance the game.
I think all the kids here are mad that Warhammer requires a bit higher end computer than the one needed for their High School Musical WoW game. Also with amazing patch yesterday, Warhammer is becoming a very awsome game. Mythic is Listening to it's player base. And yea, if you stand still and stare at WE or WH they will kill you. I play your counterpart a DoK. I am Same as you and I can kill a WH as long as I play circle attack dance with them, and turn around when they are behind me.
Probably because a WH is nowhere near the power of a WE. Thank you for making my point.
Any WP who comes here and says they can take down an equal level WE in T4 is a liar. They may escape if the WE sucks, but they will never beat it one on one.
Have you heard of 'Enfeebling Strike'. Does a WH get this? Does a WH get any of the other abilities I mentioned in the OP?
And yea, if you stand still and stare at WE or WH they will kill you. I play your counterpart a DoK. I am Same as you and I can kill a WH as long as I play circle attack dance with them, and turn around when they are behind me.
I thought strafing was classed as a broken PvP mechanic? Or maybe that's just in WoW and it's OK for other games...
strafing has never been broken in WAR people just forget that there's Collision detection there for they can't strafe / circle strafe their way through a crowd. Essentially its a tactic that works best in small skrimishes or catching someone by themselves. Using it while taking a keep or in a huge area with lots of people around each other is next to impossible.
Circle strafing has an added bonus in Warhammer, and it is alive and kicking. Tests have shown that trying to camera turn to keep up with a circle strafer leaves you about half a turn behind due to client lag.
Conclusion: A WE will always be at the side or behind you, therefore leaving you constantly open to the positional attacks and max damage.
Will Mythic repair it? I doubt it, they have shown little indication they know what the causes of the symptoms are, even though they have been told repeatedly by various players. Granted they have been told stuff that is incorrect or misleading by various players as well. But they clearly are not fixing the base problems, just slapping band-aids onto symptoms and hoping it works out ok.
First of all, population balance isn't that big of an issue. For the most part, the population balance of the high-pop servers (and my server in particular) has been reported at a less than 10%. What you're noticing is the fact that Destro are very often willing and able to put together warbands; a lot of the hardcore WoW PvPers that have headed to WAR rolled Destro, and many of them like to oRvR better than almost everyone else. What your job is, at that point, is to get a solid group of folks together and go out and -hurt people-.
I definitely give a toss. I'm getting to the point where both Order and Destruction know my name, and it's because I do absolutely nothing but get together warbands to stop Destro, and win. I've bounced a full warband of Destruction off of Stoneclaw with only six other people present. It's definitely possible, and it's not even -hard-, as many of them don't organize particularly well. Also, from Update 1.1a, my framerate has evened out substantially in large oRvR battles. More than fifty people used to turn my game into Warhammer Online: Age of Powerpoint, but it's actually quite smooth at this point. Granted, I have a big rig, but 1.1a did help a lot with the framerate issue.
Classes such as Witch Elves have ruined the game for very few, as a matter of fact. The folks who Witch Elves have ruined the game for either didn't have Witch Hunters or didn't know how the Hell to play as a team. Fighting one-on-one with a Witch Elf as a Shadow Warrior or a Warrior Priest? Of course you're going to die. what do you expect? You're not a melee DPS class, and tanks do NOT die that quickly when beset by Witch Elves. Also, between the realm-dichotomy of Witch Elves and Witch Hunters, the Hunters have an absolutely massive advantage. My Witch Hunter beats out an Elf every single time, hands down, level discrepancy or not. A, I know how to play, and B, I know what skills really fuck over Witch Elves. You just have to plan it out and play it right. It's not that hard.
Also, healers aren't leaving in droves. You know why? Because healers got huge buffs too. My bigheal used to heal for 250% of dealt damage. Now it's 350% -AND- it's harder to set back. Divine Strike used to heal within 10' for 50% of your damage, now it heals for 100% AND takes critical damage into account. My healing has -leaped- since 1.1a, and my Sigmarite is now even better than he was... and he -was- good.
Also, yes, they advertised massive PvP battles. And when you organize one, it happens. Anyone on Phoenix Throne who was out yesterday night with Meridius, bashing around in T3? There were nearly two hundred people fighting in the same place at the same time, and Order ran into a keep that was in the middle of being captured and curbstomped Destro so badly that I went from 0/20 in a kill quest to complete in literally less than five seconds. Three Global Cooldowns and my Warband had gotten twenty kills... and we were one of FOUR warbands. Also, using a little caution fixes up the invisibles problem right away. You just have to... wait for it... -play well-.
Don't roll a WE, and don't cancel your account. If you have Witch Elf hate, try a Witch Hunter, stack Initiative, and stealth-bomb the bad guys out of hiding while applying a debuff that causes them to take damage for every melee attack they do. Make sure that your healers don't suffer the same fate, and instead of shrieking 'NOOBS' at all your party members, trying helping them learn to handle bad situations better. It's called leadership. If there's none in the party, step the fuck up or strike the fuck out.
Also, for crying out loud, snare the Witch Elves. If you snare one and it -still- gets behind you, you have no fucking excuse. I've never had a major problem with WEs getting behind me because I understand the importance of not allowing that bullshit to happen. Sometimes they appear out of nowhere and do their finishing move, but you know what? That's part of their class. I have an instacast shield that eats as much damage as it deals, and while it's up I can cast a bigheal that'll completely repair me. And -then- I can feed them a sledgehammer!
Any person who says that this game does not require skill has either never played the game or no memory of playing the game and no clue whatsoever. Anybody can play this game obviously, but to be good at it and have a winning team takes absolute skill and coordination. I happen to play a 40 w/e. This is 1 thing i can credit to order is their superior coordination, and destructions lack there of. PPl say order is OP'd which i disagree with. This game is very balanced for the most part. Since this last patch, WP are insanely good at healing themselves and gratz to them for that. I can see why ppl would think w/e r OP'd. The fact is, they r very good at dps'ing. The biggest issue with ppl complaining is not their lack of knowledge of their own class, but of all classes. While every1 on destro complained about "BW r OP'd", i was thinking "their not so bad, but again they r very good at dps'ing". Overall, it takes alot more coordination and startegy for destruction to win. 1.1 is coming and this game is far from dying, but ready to bury all mmos IMO aside from the fanbois obviously. My advice to all, study ALL your enemies. Watch what their good at, AND what their not good at.
Oh yea, almost forgot. Server population is server specific and EA understands this issue which is why we have free character transfers. My whole guild moved and life is wonderful.
Er population imbalance is pretty important and many people are reporting 1:1.3 in Tier 4. The sad thing is they say that and then say that is not that bad (of course they are usually on the 1.3 side).
1:1.3 in a game like WAR wihich has very little in the way of zerg breaking is basically enough to seriously harm if not destroy the campaign on a server. Not to mention the zerg breaking they did add with rift/magnet was one the worst things they ever did to the game.
Not sure where people are getting their statistics and many people mistakenly use sites that just dump every single alt across all tiers and are basically meaningless. But other than about 2 servers which are about 1:1.1 most servers are 1:1.3 and all of them favor the same side except I think one server. Although I think even Volkmar is now favor destro in tier 4.
If WAR was a game with more creative and better implemented tactical options this might be ok, although anything more than 1.3 in a two faction game is going to have serious problems no matter what the tactical options. But in WAR which has basically little to no strategy in the campaign and very few tactical options to surmount a numbers advantage, well it is a very serious problem. In fact the problem is made worse in WAR because fighting on multiple fronts is actually strategically bad for Victory Points. It is sad to say but if it were actually possible WAR almost has a negative value for strategy in it campaign as it even takes away the normal advantage of smaller size groups, ie. hit and run/harassment style tactics.
Every piece of information I've heard has stated that the realm balance for most healthy, high-populated servers is in the single digits, and that the worst of imbalances are in the realm of 15%.
If you're hearing reports of more Destro in open RvR, then that's absolutely true, or it -was-. Order is starting to outswarm them, now, and on top of that we tend to be a little more organized 'cuz we've got loudmouthed assholes like me trying to run shit and, occasionally, succeeding.
Seriously Greyhooff, sometimes I wonder about you matey. In one week you can start a thread with this title: "KOTBS is absurdly overpowered, tanks with 2 handers that deal insane damage" and then say:
Granted this is only in tier 1 and tier 2, but KOTBS in all scenarios at this early stage are very overpowered, they do the same or more damage than marauders of that level. On top of that they are pretty much unkillable by melee and have very powerful buffs.
I know Order feels they should get a carrot to boost their population but is giving them the most overpowered dps tank utility class with two handers really needed? Human tanks with 2 handed swords that rip everything apart in front of them, might as well give them a -50% healing debuff and call them arcanite reaper wearing arms warriors from early wow
And then you jump all over this fellow's post saying:
hi
It's fairly obvious you're a terrible player and have no coordinated team tactics and no plan to win. Witch elves (and witch hunters) can be given a very hard time by a competent team that positions itself correctly, their ambushes are very counterable as are white lion / marauder pulling, rift/magnet and various other abilities.
But yes, it requires skill that you just don't have yet. Play an easier game to get the hang of hotkeys and strategy before playing an adult PVP game
Hmm. In your case, the class is overpowered. In his case, hes a 'terrible player'. In his case, he's not good at the hotkeys in an 'adult PVP game' and in your case, its the KoTBS' fault?
Amazing. Simply... Amazing.
Could we please have some sane fans chime in here? Or at least more doublespeak to post ^^
I wondered why Greyhooff was posting in the WoW forums, now I understand. He's not even understood by the War fans.
Say what you like about this game, whether you're a blindly loyal fan, an unreasonable "hater", or a balance between these two; there is one thing that cannot be denied. People are leaving, servers are emptying out, and the game is riddled with bugs; such as the delightful invisible player fiasco.
The game has problems, a lot of problems; yet unlike AOC - I see no potential here. Nothing.
Now, from here on out here's what I see as the problem; though you'll be hard pressed to deny any of the following.
As a game supposedly focused on conflict ("War is Everywhere") the game does little to sustain and encourage it. Dangle all of the free items you want infront of it; but if it isn't fun, it isn't fun. No amount of gear can surmount the fact that the client and servers can't handle large battles.
We've heard this song and dance over and over again.
RVR doesnt reward enough
PVE Sucks
RVR is boring
Game engine sucks
and so on, and so on...
But honestly, can one of you people who still believe in this game enlighten us as to what this game's potential is? This game needs nothing short of a massive overhaul to be a good game, honestly.
They'd have to redo and make each keep different / unique. (As in, not have every keep be one floor, a staircase, and then keep lord)
They'd need to tear down this combat "engine" and make one that isn't a complete embarrassment.
...And that's just for starters. Doing those few things won't save this game from the brink.
Oh, and incidentally; AoC now more worthwhile than this game they've decided was ready for release. Not that it even has any endgame content!
Say what you like about this game, whether you're a blindly loyal fan, an unreasonable "hater", or a balance between these two; there is one thing that cannot be denied. People are leaving, servers are emptying out, and the game is riddled with bugs; such as the delightful invisible player fiasco.
The game has problems, a lot of problems; yet unlike AOC - I see no potential here. Nothing.
Now, from here on out here's what I see as the problem; though you'll be hard pressed to deny any of the following.
As a game supposedly focused on conflict ("War is Everywhere") the game does little to sustain and encourage it. Dangle all of the free items you want infront of it; but if it isn't fun, it isn't fun. No amount of gear can surmount the fact that the client and servers can't handle large battles. We've heard this song and dance over and over again.
RVR doesnt reward enough PVE Sucks RVR is boring Game engine sucks and so on, and so on...
But honestly, can one of you people who still believe in this game enlighten us as to what this game's potential is? This game needs nothing short of a massive overhaul to be a good game, honestly.
They'd have to redo and make each keep different / unique. (As in, not have every keep be one floor, a staircase, and then keep lord)
They'd need to tear down this combat "engine" and make one that isn't a complete embarrassment.
...And that's just for starters. Doing those few things won't save this game from the brink.
Oh, and incidentally; AoC now more worthwhile than this game they've decided was ready for release. Not that it even has any endgame content!
I agree with a *lot* of what you say here. I don't know that the game is beyond repair, but it is very simplistic, even at its best moments. It doesn't have any depth to it at all but that's what people liked about it at first -- the quick accessibility to pvp, etc. All I know is, 80 percent of the people I know who played this game have quit. I am not a fan of AoC, however, having played it for several months. It probably is a better game, though. But who cares?That's like saying ass cancer is better than sack cancer. It's a lose-lose situation either way.
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RvR rewards are in the middle of getting fixed; they've already got some great items available, and it's apparently the first step of many.
PvE sucks? How does PvE suck? the Public Quests are fun, and the fact that you can actually do them with a small group now is pretty nice. Grinding your way through every PQ in every zone would be kind of silly, but doing the quests (which are mostly similar to any other MMO's, admittedly) and one zone's worth of PQs will bring you through the tier and onto the next, just like any other game. Also, the bosses and dungeon content are fun, but a lot of people don't even know they're there.
How is RvR boring? What would you do to make it less boring?
Game engine is kind of cruddy, but they're fixing it up; I was in a 200-man brawl last night, no disappearing players, very little stuttering. I have a nice computer, but it was nicer a year ago when I bought it, and it -still- wasn't top of the line.
I'm interested in what you think is an embarrassment about its combat system; compared with other massives out there, it's one of the better ones I've seen. WoW has got nothing on this game PvP-wise, even if only because you actually control your character all the time. Getting stunned, feared, whirlwinded and sheeped for the rest of your natural life is kind of aggravating, and it's a really major part of WoW. The biggest complaint I hear is how often punts come up and are usable, but frankly, it's a short-term way to get folks out of combat, and it HAS the potential to be used poorly, rather than simply being useful all the time. Punt a fleeing player but don't kill 'em? You saved their life. A stun basically does its magic every time, where a punt can be great or terrible depending on situation. A lot of the game is designed around some things being useful at some times and being awful at others. Learning when to use what and how to use the abilities you get is the part that makes it interesting.
What's your beef with keeps? They've already changed how the Keep Lords work, adding newer and more interesting abilities and causing them to be a little more unstable in terms of how they leash back to their rooms, or what they pull with them. They're making them a bit tougher to kill straight-up, but frankly, the Keep Lord isn't nearly as important as the keep's defense. When there are players in a keep, it's a whole different ball game; even a small group can hold off a disorganized warband that's trying to get in, but with good organization and a good leader, you can get in and really make a difference even if the folks in the keep have the same numbers as you do.
Frankly, I find a lot of the stuff that goes on in WAR to be pretty interesting. I'm not sure where you're pulling the whole it's-boring deal from; if you stand in the back as a Bright Wizard and do absolutely nothing but mash one button, then yes, it's boring. And you're also being excruciatingly ineffective. This is a game where judicious use of the proper skills puts a huge gulf between folks who know what they're doing and people who are just putzing around without really learning anything.
One of the major things I like about WAR is that it's accessible and relatively simple to get into, but once you're far into it and you have a few choices to make about how to play and what to spec into, it becomes a much different game, and much more difficult to really master. Easy to learn, hard to master is one of the biggest things in gaming since -before- video games; everyone knows how to play chess, but who can beat out a player like Mikhail Chigorin? Not a lot of folks. Same deal here.
In terms of design, WAR's combat system is one of the most conscientious I've ever seen. Does it have problems? Absolutely. When you go from thousands of testers to hundreds of thousands, you start seeing where the flaws in your perfect plans are, and you patch accordingly. And they have been patching, extensively, to fix problems and add new incentives and interesting things to do.
So... what's your problem? More importantly, how would you like to see it fixed? I'm actually curious for a discussion here, and as you can see by my extreme TL;DR syndrome, I'm willing and able to speak on most subjects of this kind at length.
And yea, if you stand still and stare at WE or WH they will kill you. I play your counterpart a DoK. I am Same as you and I can kill a WH as long as I play circle attack dance with them, and turn around when they are behind me.
I thought strafing was classed as a broken PvP mechanic? Or maybe that's just in WoW and it's OK for other games...
It is a broken mechanic when there are no collission boxes preventing the person from strafing and moving right through your pivot point and landing back attacks while their character overlaps yours; which in turn causes confusion for the person on the recieving end because they never truly know when they are in front of you and have no way to really stop you as you keep passing through them over and over landing criticals and inturutping their poitions.
Example: feral druids who constnatly run overtop you. I tested it with a buddy. A feral druid in cat form can attack their target startig from their pivot point, which is right smack in the middle of their kitty stomach. So a druid in cat form can have his cat head peeking out of a another players belly, and still and back attacks as long as the center of his body doesn't pass over your center.
The WoW lack of collission was strictly made for PvE. It works when you ahve a team of 6 trying to engage monsters. It's horrible in PvP when you have 6 warrior and rogues rush down a 2 foot whide tunnel and train assist their enemy. They should be bumbing into each other. The enemy should be able to block them from passing. Enemies should be running AROUND another player to land backstabs, not jump through them.
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I think all the kids here are mad that Warhammer requires a bit higher end computer than the one needed for their High School Musical WoW game. Also with amazing patch yesterday, Warhammer is becoming a very awsome game.
Mythic is Listening to it's player base.
And yea, if you stand still and stare at WE or WH they will kill you. I play your counterpart a DoK. I am Same as you and I can kill a WH as long as I play circle attack dance with them, and turn around when they are behind me.
I thought strafing was classed as a broken PvP mechanic? Or maybe that's just in WoW and it's OK for other games...
Taking a keep is not as fun when there is never anyone inside.
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Taking a keep is not as fun when there is never anyone inside.
On Windkun's and my server it is
I thought strafing was classed as a broken PvP mechanic? Or maybe that's just in WoW and it's OK for other games...
Well I don't really know what you mean by a broken pvp mechanic, circle straffing has been around since you could LAN Doom or use link cables on the PS1. And I don't get into reply fights becuase it's really pointless. So with that ..Have Fun!
.....Your theory fails....you knwo Darkfall is directly targeted at Hardcore FFA PvP Players which is an entirely diferent set of PVP type from RvR Players. I love RvR but I loathe FFA PVP and have absolutely no interested at all in Darkfall or Aion. Warhammer was pissing me off due to the lack of draw to the ORvR lakes but the new patch is bringing me back into the game. I've not played in 4 weeks and im excited to go home tonight and Waaagh! All night long.
Darkfall PvP and Warhammer RvR are NOT the same thing and do not attract the same players. While SOME players swing either way there are plenty that do not. PvP is multi faceted shoving every game with a PvP label on it into the same catagory is retarded. Warhammer has NEVER tried to attract the hardcore FFA set.
I thought strafing was classed as a broken PvP mechanic? Or maybe that's just in WoW and it's OK for other games...
strafing has never been broken in WAR people just forget that there's Collision detection there for they can't strafe / circle strafe their way through a crowd. Essentially its a tactic that works best in small skrimishes or catching someone by themselves. Using it while taking a keep or in a huge area with lots of people around each other is next to impossible.
Not true at all, NHL serie are the best game ever and made by EA sport.
I guess you're one of the few people who has never seen Mythic's PR campaign blitz months leading up to release? The one where they touted War as "war all the time, everywhere", etc? With classes that are absolutely 'badass''Clint Eastwood like' and can rip your head off while wearing the baddest leathers and skulls, and vaporize you and etc etc etc? Hmm.. Well, you can still go back and check all the viral PR vids they did because you must be the only one who missed it. That sure didn't sound like they were after the 'casual' PvP crowd when Mythic was doing it.
It was marketed at the PvP fan who was tired of 'candyland PvP' played in WoW and other games; the semi and hardcore pvp player. They didn't want just the 'urine-in-the-bottle' guys, but they meant all the people who claim they are the best at this/that in a PvP world using skills, not gear. Not just realm. Realm was part of the themepark attraction to give them a bigger killing table and to the casuals who weren't used to that type of stuff. Mythic wanted people who mainly thought of THEMSELVES as the hardcore pvp types, not carebears from Wow. How you argue with this in the face of all their video evidence is astonishing.
I actually think Paragus is pretty dead on in his assessment. War rushed to market when they didn't have to which created most of its own PvP problems. Now that there are more PvP type games coming out, they will have to worry about that market, as well as the people so turned off by this 'intense' style of pvp that they might just check out a FFA PvP world like Darkfall, where in the past they never thought they would.
I'd have to agree mostly with Paragus here and say your theory fails in the face of plenty of evidence to the contrary.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Im getting sick of these "warhammer sux" posts or "wow sux" or "everquest2 sux" . I say as i say about every game the same dudes and dudettes jump on, find another game if you dont like it, its not going to change into something you will like if your already set on its going to suck. And it will not change just cos you cry over it. Fine if Warhammer was unplayable or if had some buggs that were ground breaking but it hasent, its not aoc or vanguard when it launched.
all im trying to say is if you dont like it, dont play it. If you like it play it.But i dont think anyone are going to come to this posted and with some magical answer get to change your mind about the game. Cos the sad truth is the ppl that are playing the game dont want ppl that complain about the game in the game.
And as far as the population they are working on it, and making free tranfers so you can move you charecter to another server with more population. and they know the server problems and they say the know and they are working on it. If you can wait for it to happened freeze your acount and come back later.
"The client that runs this game is pathetic. You advertised 'massive' PvP battles. What is 'massive' to you? 12v12 in a Scenario? Check the posts on the fan sites regarding the latest 1.1 patch - nothing has changed with characters being attacked by invisibles, and others are constantly appearing and disappearing. You have fixed nothing, and this shows that you have zero clue as to what the problem is. You are just stumbling around in the dark trying to fix performance and all you are doing, is breaking everything else into the bargain." <---- I was in a full warband fighting order that had atleast 30-40 players comming at us, isent that a massive battle? And 90% of the players i was with wasent even in a Guild. And this was at night not peak hour. Dont say stupid things like there isent any massive battles, if you arent in massive battle then you chose not to be in one. And btw since the patch that bosted orvr it have been alot more, i can easly find a warband to take over a castle in under 2 mins if i want.
I must say after all my hope and positive thoughts; to see what this has turned out to be has crushed many of us who know Warhammer lore, were promised a Warhammer experience and that Warhammer Online would NOT be like any other MMO....I so hoped and stood behind them, but this was the straw that broke the camels back....
FROM TODAY'S Grab BAG
Q. Can you comment on the general difficulty of the dungeons such as Bilerot Burrow and Bloodwrought Enclave? As it stands now, it seems as though the outcome of the fight is way too dependent on the gear of the tank rather than player skill.
A. Everyone in your group SHOULD HAVE at least a few pieces of the appropriately warded gear. If you don’t, then it is likely that you won’t succeed. If you do, then for example with the Bile Lord, you have to skillfully avoid the pestilent puddles, wrangle up the adds, ensure Nurglings don’t die near him (it enrages him), be on point with curing the DoTs, burn his intestines down fast enough, etc. However, just as with any fight, if you are over-geared (i.e. have a full greater ward set) then a group might be able to just weather the damage and burn him down quick enough to avoid any major hiccups.
The game of bloodhsed, War everywhere...I don't see it- ever. I see trading keeps for gold loot bags and scenarios which are completely unbalanced and badly designed and the actual designed need for gear to participate in boss fights to win. (What happened to our NPC's to help keep "balance" Mark!?)
People will leave in even greater droves when order quits and destruction has no one to gank, which is happening now. While I do not think the game is broken beynond repair it is unbalanced. Mythic needs to stop listening to the littel kiddies on the destruction side demanding the I win button and actualy try and balance the game.
Probably because a WH is nowhere near the power of a WE. Thank you for making my point.
Any WP who comes here and says they can take down an equal level WE in T4 is a liar. They may escape if the WE sucks, but they will never beat it one on one.
Have you heard of 'Enfeebling Strike'. Does a WH get this? Does a WH get any of the other abilities I mentioned in the OP?
Kris.Kringle@greenland.com
I thought strafing was classed as a broken PvP mechanic? Or maybe that's just in WoW and it's OK for other games...
strafing has never been broken in WAR people just forget that there's Collision detection there for they can't strafe / circle strafe their way through a crowd. Essentially its a tactic that works best in small skrimishes or catching someone by themselves. Using it while taking a keep or in a huge area with lots of people around each other is next to impossible.
Circle strafing has an added bonus in Warhammer, and it is alive and kicking. Tests have shown that trying to camera turn to keep up with a circle strafer leaves you about half a turn behind due to client lag.
Conclusion: A WE will always be at the side or behind you, therefore leaving you constantly open to the positional attacks and max damage.
Kris.Kringle@greenland.com
Lawl, try activating and turning quicker to catch up with the lag.
It's called brains and it works every time *yawn*
You people are hilarious.
Is the game broken? Yes
Is it beyond repair? Don't think so.
Will Mythic repair it? I doubt it, they have shown little indication they know what the causes of the symptoms are, even though they have been told repeatedly by various players. Granted they have been told stuff that is incorrect or misleading by various players as well. But they clearly are not fixing the base problems, just slapping band-aids onto symptoms and hoping it works out ok.
First of all, population balance isn't that big of an issue. For the most part, the population balance of the high-pop servers (and my server in particular) has been reported at a less than 10%. What you're noticing is the fact that Destro are very often willing and able to put together warbands; a lot of the hardcore WoW PvPers that have headed to WAR rolled Destro, and many of them like to oRvR better than almost everyone else. What your job is, at that point, is to get a solid group of folks together and go out and -hurt people-.
I definitely give a toss. I'm getting to the point where both Order and Destruction know my name, and it's because I do absolutely nothing but get together warbands to stop Destro, and win. I've bounced a full warband of Destruction off of Stoneclaw with only six other people present. It's definitely possible, and it's not even -hard-, as many of them don't organize particularly well. Also, from Update 1.1a, my framerate has evened out substantially in large oRvR battles. More than fifty people used to turn my game into Warhammer Online: Age of Powerpoint, but it's actually quite smooth at this point. Granted, I have a big rig, but 1.1a did help a lot with the framerate issue.
Classes such as Witch Elves have ruined the game for very few, as a matter of fact. The folks who Witch Elves have ruined the game for either didn't have Witch Hunters or didn't know how the Hell to play as a team. Fighting one-on-one with a Witch Elf as a Shadow Warrior or a Warrior Priest? Of course you're going to die. what do you expect? You're not a melee DPS class, and tanks do NOT die that quickly when beset by Witch Elves. Also, between the realm-dichotomy of Witch Elves and Witch Hunters, the Hunters have an absolutely massive advantage. My Witch Hunter beats out an Elf every single time, hands down, level discrepancy or not. A, I know how to play, and B, I know what skills really fuck over Witch Elves. You just have to plan it out and play it right. It's not that hard.
Also, healers aren't leaving in droves. You know why? Because healers got huge buffs too. My bigheal used to heal for 250% of dealt damage. Now it's 350% -AND- it's harder to set back. Divine Strike used to heal within 10' for 50% of your damage, now it heals for 100% AND takes critical damage into account. My healing has -leaped- since 1.1a, and my Sigmarite is now even better than he was... and he -was- good.
Also, yes, they advertised massive PvP battles. And when you organize one, it happens. Anyone on Phoenix Throne who was out yesterday night with Meridius, bashing around in T3? There were nearly two hundred people fighting in the same place at the same time, and Order ran into a keep that was in the middle of being captured and curbstomped Destro so badly that I went from 0/20 in a kill quest to complete in literally less than five seconds. Three Global Cooldowns and my Warband had gotten twenty kills... and we were one of FOUR warbands. Also, using a little caution fixes up the invisibles problem right away. You just have to... wait for it... -play well-.
Don't roll a WE, and don't cancel your account. If you have Witch Elf hate, try a Witch Hunter, stack Initiative, and stealth-bomb the bad guys out of hiding while applying a debuff that causes them to take damage for every melee attack they do. Make sure that your healers don't suffer the same fate, and instead of shrieking 'NOOBS' at all your party members, trying helping them learn to handle bad situations better. It's called leadership. If there's none in the party, step the fuck up or strike the fuck out.
Also, for crying out loud, snare the Witch Elves. If you snare one and it -still- gets behind you, you have no fucking excuse. I've never had a major problem with WEs getting behind me because I understand the importance of not allowing that bullshit to happen. Sometimes they appear out of nowhere and do their finishing move, but you know what? That's part of their class. I have an instacast shield that eats as much damage as it deals, and while it's up I can cast a bigheal that'll completely repair me. And -then- I can feed them a sledgehammer!
Any person who says that this game does not require skill has either never played the game or no memory of playing the game and no clue whatsoever. Anybody can play this game obviously, but to be good at it and have a winning team takes absolute skill and coordination. I happen to play a 40 w/e. This is 1 thing i can credit to order is their superior coordination, and destructions lack there of. PPl say order is OP'd which i disagree with. This game is very balanced for the most part. Since this last patch, WP are insanely good at healing themselves and gratz to them for that. I can see why ppl would think w/e r OP'd. The fact is, they r very good at dps'ing. The biggest issue with ppl complaining is not their lack of knowledge of their own class, but of all classes. While every1 on destro complained about "BW r OP'd", i was thinking "their not so bad, but again they r very good at dps'ing". Overall, it takes alot more coordination and startegy for destruction to win. 1.1 is coming and this game is far from dying, but ready to bury all mmos IMO aside from the fanbois obviously. My advice to all, study ALL your enemies. Watch what their good at, AND what their not good at.
Oh yea, almost forgot. Server population is server specific and EA understands this issue which is why we have free character transfers. My whole guild moved and life is wonderful.
Er population imbalance is pretty important and many people are reporting 1:1.3 in Tier 4. The sad thing is they say that and then say that is not that bad (of course they are usually on the 1.3 side).
1:1.3 in a game like WAR wihich has very little in the way of zerg breaking is basically enough to seriously harm if not destroy the campaign on a server. Not to mention the zerg breaking they did add with rift/magnet was one the worst things they ever did to the game.
Not sure where people are getting their statistics and many people mistakenly use sites that just dump every single alt across all tiers and are basically meaningless. But other than about 2 servers which are about 1:1.1 most servers are 1:1.3 and all of them favor the same side except I think one server. Although I think even Volkmar is now favor destro in tier 4.
If WAR was a game with more creative and better implemented tactical options this might be ok, although anything more than 1.3 in a two faction game is going to have serious problems no matter what the tactical options. But in WAR which has basically little to no strategy in the campaign and very few tactical options to surmount a numbers advantage, well it is a very serious problem. In fact the problem is made worse in WAR because fighting on multiple fronts is actually strategically bad for Victory Points. It is sad to say but if it were actually possible WAR almost has a negative value for strategy in it campaign as it even takes away the normal advantage of smaller size groups, ie. hit and run/harassment style tactics.
Where are you getting 30% imbalance from?
Every piece of information I've heard has stated that the realm balance for most healthy, high-populated servers is in the single digits, and that the worst of imbalances are in the realm of 15%.
If you're hearing reports of more Destro in open RvR, then that's absolutely true, or it -was-. Order is starting to outswarm them, now, and on top of that we tend to be a little more organized 'cuz we've got loudmouthed assholes like me trying to run shit and, occasionally, succeeding.
And then you jump all over this fellow's post saying:
Hmm. In your case, the class is overpowered. In his case, hes a 'terrible player'. In his case, he's not good at the hotkeys in an 'adult PVP game' and in your case, its the KoTBS' fault?
Amazing. Simply... Amazing.
Could we please have some sane fans chime in here? Or at least more doublespeak to post ^^
I wondered why Greyhooff was posting in the WoW forums, now I understand. He's not even understood by the War fans.
Say what you like about this game, whether you're a blindly loyal fan, an unreasonable "hater", or a balance between these two; there is one thing that cannot be denied. People are leaving, servers are emptying out, and the game is riddled with bugs; such as the delightful invisible player fiasco.
The game has problems, a lot of problems; yet unlike AOC - I see no potential here. Nothing.
Now, from here on out here's what I see as the problem; though you'll be hard pressed to deny any of the following.
As a game supposedly focused on conflict ("War is Everywhere") the game does little to sustain and encourage it. Dangle all of the free items you want infront of it; but if it isn't fun, it isn't fun. No amount of gear can surmount the fact that the client and servers can't handle large battles.
We've heard this song and dance over and over again.
RVR doesnt reward enough
PVE Sucks
RVR is boring
Game engine sucks
and so on, and so on...
But honestly, can one of you people who still believe in this game enlighten us as to what this game's potential is? This game needs nothing short of a massive overhaul to be a good game, honestly.
They'd have to redo and make each keep different / unique. (As in, not have every keep be one floor, a staircase, and then keep lord)
They'd need to tear down this combat "engine" and make one that isn't a complete embarrassment.
...And that's just for starters. Doing those few things won't save this game from the brink.
Oh, and incidentally; AoC now more worthwhile than this game they've decided was ready for release. Not that it even has any endgame content!
I agree with a *lot* of what you say here. I don't know that the game is beyond repair, but it is very simplistic, even at its best moments. It doesn't have any depth to it at all but that's what people liked about it at first -- the quick accessibility to pvp, etc. All I know is, 80 percent of the people I know who played this game have quit. I am not a fan of AoC, however, having played it for several months. It probably is a better game, though. But who cares?That's like saying ass cancer is better than sack cancer. It's a lose-lose situation either way.
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RvR rewards are in the middle of getting fixed; they've already got some great items available, and it's apparently the first step of many.
PvE sucks? How does PvE suck? the Public Quests are fun, and the fact that you can actually do them with a small group now is pretty nice. Grinding your way through every PQ in every zone would be kind of silly, but doing the quests (which are mostly similar to any other MMO's, admittedly) and one zone's worth of PQs will bring you through the tier and onto the next, just like any other game. Also, the bosses and dungeon content are fun, but a lot of people don't even know they're there.
How is RvR boring? What would you do to make it less boring?
Game engine is kind of cruddy, but they're fixing it up; I was in a 200-man brawl last night, no disappearing players, very little stuttering. I have a nice computer, but it was nicer a year ago when I bought it, and it -still- wasn't top of the line.
I'm interested in what you think is an embarrassment about its combat system; compared with other massives out there, it's one of the better ones I've seen. WoW has got nothing on this game PvP-wise, even if only because you actually control your character all the time. Getting stunned, feared, whirlwinded and sheeped for the rest of your natural life is kind of aggravating, and it's a really major part of WoW. The biggest complaint I hear is how often punts come up and are usable, but frankly, it's a short-term way to get folks out of combat, and it HAS the potential to be used poorly, rather than simply being useful all the time. Punt a fleeing player but don't kill 'em? You saved their life. A stun basically does its magic every time, where a punt can be great or terrible depending on situation. A lot of the game is designed around some things being useful at some times and being awful at others. Learning when to use what and how to use the abilities you get is the part that makes it interesting.
What's your beef with keeps? They've already changed how the Keep Lords work, adding newer and more interesting abilities and causing them to be a little more unstable in terms of how they leash back to their rooms, or what they pull with them. They're making them a bit tougher to kill straight-up, but frankly, the Keep Lord isn't nearly as important as the keep's defense. When there are players in a keep, it's a whole different ball game; even a small group can hold off a disorganized warband that's trying to get in, but with good organization and a good leader, you can get in and really make a difference even if the folks in the keep have the same numbers as you do.
Frankly, I find a lot of the stuff that goes on in WAR to be pretty interesting. I'm not sure where you're pulling the whole it's-boring deal from; if you stand in the back as a Bright Wizard and do absolutely nothing but mash one button, then yes, it's boring. And you're also being excruciatingly ineffective. This is a game where judicious use of the proper skills puts a huge gulf between folks who know what they're doing and people who are just putzing around without really learning anything.
One of the major things I like about WAR is that it's accessible and relatively simple to get into, but once you're far into it and you have a few choices to make about how to play and what to spec into, it becomes a much different game, and much more difficult to really master. Easy to learn, hard to master is one of the biggest things in gaming since -before- video games; everyone knows how to play chess, but who can beat out a player like Mikhail Chigorin? Not a lot of folks. Same deal here.
In terms of design, WAR's combat system is one of the most conscientious I've ever seen. Does it have problems? Absolutely. When you go from thousands of testers to hundreds of thousands, you start seeing where the flaws in your perfect plans are, and you patch accordingly. And they have been patching, extensively, to fix problems and add new incentives and interesting things to do.
So... what's your problem? More importantly, how would you like to see it fixed? I'm actually curious for a discussion here, and as you can see by my extreme TL;DR syndrome, I'm willing and able to speak on most subjects of this kind at length.
I thought strafing was classed as a broken PvP mechanic? Or maybe that's just in WoW and it's OK for other games...
It is a broken mechanic when there are no collission boxes preventing the person from strafing and moving right through your pivot point and landing back attacks while their character overlaps yours; which in turn causes confusion for the person on the recieving end because they never truly know when they are in front of you and have no way to really stop you as you keep passing through them over and over landing criticals and inturutping their poitions.
Example: feral druids who constnatly run overtop you. I tested it with a buddy. A feral druid in cat form can attack their target startig from their pivot point, which is right smack in the middle of their kitty stomach. So a druid in cat form can have his cat head peeking out of a another players belly, and still and back attacks as long as the center of his body doesn't pass over your center.
The WoW lack of collission was strictly made for PvE. It works when you ahve a team of 6 trying to engage monsters. It's horrible in PvP when you have 6 warrior and rogues rush down a 2 foot whide tunnel and train assist their enemy. They should be bumbing into each other. The enemy should be able to block them from passing. Enemies should be running AROUND another player to land backstabs, not jump through them.