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Players themselves let companies abuse the system.
Waterlily
Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
This was posted here and I realised that not just SoE / RMT companies bend over their players backwards. Players do it too.
Once RMT goes both ways and players use the RMT currency as trade in-game then players are part of the scheme. It starts as a one-sided corporate scheme but once players get involved, they just use the same practice as corporations.
This is what I'm referring to from a player:
"I browsed a couple threads that are ranting over this, but would someone please explain why this is such a evil thing that has caused the lynch mob to form?
There was nothing worse than to see a levle 60 Warrior who literally had no idea how to tank and play his character, or a levle 60 cleric that thought he was a dpser instead of a healer.. OMG, those ebayers were the worst! But hey, I did love it when they would overpay for accounts I sold, lol.. Having a manastone and powerleveling myself with my druid to level 50 in under a week made me some nice rl cash, so I guess it evened out in the end, lol. :P"
Not only corporations are to blame, but players themselves feel no shame in hiding in the shadows of the anonymity of the internet to rip others off.
Comments
Please just stop.
Before someone says say "Well they are adding the ability to gift some one".I ran at least 10 events as a guild leader in EQ2, and each winner was "Gifted" an adventure pack. Its the same dam thing, i have away whole ZONES of content, OH NOZ!!.
Also Microtransactions != RMT.
You can say it is (Copyed from another thread, tired of repeating myself:)
Sure, if you want to see the world in black and white. However one is a open system, one is a closed system. RMT is typically trading between players using real cash for items. Micro transactions are a one way system wherein you put mony into the system, but it never comes out, and trading is done between provider and and the player, NOT player to play. Then there is the sanctioned use, and non sectioned use of RMT, one is accounted for in the game design, the other is outside of it.
SOE is using a closed system of micro transactions, money goes in, and does not come out. They are also not selling ITEMS
(such as stats bearing equipment like armor and weapons); they are selling "added value" and fluff items that are consumables.
This is the problem with all of the threads here, people are treating what they have done the same as the station exchange, when it is not, its an ala-cart system for consumables that uses a closed system.
Both systems are completely dependent on the design of the system, and how they are implemented. Lumping them together, or not talking about a specific implementation is a simplistic view that is irrelevant to any discussion about them.
In fact, it’s nothing more than sensationalism by the ignorant.
As for subscription VS. Micro transactions. Its common knowledge in the industry that under a subscription model, you are over charging 50% of your players, and undercharging the other 50%. The new micro transaction models are ways to move away from that.
I do love all the people that think they are so entitled, that SOE should have "Discussed this with us". LOL.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Before someone says say "Well they are adding the ability to gift some one".I ran at least 10 events as a guild leader in EQ2, and each winner was "Gifted" an adventure pack. Its the same dam thing, i have away whole ZONES of content, OH NOZ!!.
Nice post. Completely off topic and didn't address the OP, but nice post.
Yes, it is true, players are two faced sometimes, and the same people who decry RMT, gold buying and other nefarious practices will have no problem selling their accounts, copying software illegally (how many illegal copies of Photoshop do you suppose there is out there), burning movies and music with no regard to the legality of the act.
Make me laugh.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Peole were regularly trading LoN items for real cash. There's sites up where you can buy KISS, accounts, boosters and claims for RL cash.
So what's your point. You know so little about EQ Mrbloodworth that you shouldn't comment with absolutes.
There is armor, rings, KISS, Rodcet knife and others being sold...all items.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=68063
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=69349
Please stay out of my thread if you're clueless.
I'm sorry, were you talking about exactly what I said? Or maybe a spefic implementation, because all I see you doing is lumping things into one giant pile.
Be clear, you talking about RMT? or Micro transaction VIA the new station cash? Or are you just lumping thing into one giant pile, and ranting?
I’m thinking ranting.
Players that use the systems of course do not care, this is what they want, and they use the means they have to get it. WHY do you think such sites exist? WHY do you think more and more payment models are going this way? BECOUSE PLAYERS WANT IT.
Supply and Demand. Welcome to the world.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
There is armor, rings, KISS, Rodcet knife and others being sold...all items.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=68063
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=69349
Please stay out of my thread if you're clueless.
Nice selective reading there. How about putting back the rest of the sentence, you know, the thing between the First capitalized word, and the last punctuation?
IE: They are also not selling ITEMS (such as stats bearing equipment like armor and weapons);
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Should I find you the link of the rings with stats or would that be too embarassing for you?
Hay, you can keep your unfunded accusations of RMTers to your self.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Should I find you the link of the rings with stats or would that be too embaressing for you?
Sure, show me the stats of that "Armor".
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
-1 internets
-1 internets
yeah.
Station Cash items.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
care
im looking at some of those items, like the flask of exp adventuring III cost 1000 SOECash. given the exchange rate of $5 per 500 SC your paying $10 for 4 hours of 50% xp gain lol. wtf lol theoretically I just spent $10 in 4 hours lol. does no one see anything abnormally wrong with this?? thats f**king insane!
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
no
no
no what??
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
I fail to see why players overcharging players has any effect on the developers / mmo companies themselves...at the end of the day they are still going to see the same amount of subs and box purchases. So why would it make them screw thier players?
So really would you like to rethink what your saying? Or do you mean on a morality standpoint, be an asshat, expect to be treated like an asshat?
Just because players rip eachother off, does not mean that developers / game companies get warrent to the same.You see at the end of the day it comes down to this:
Players pay moneys to game companies for a service - this usually entails a p2p game where all players are on a level footing and no player recieves special treatment from the server owners, especially not from real life trappings.
What players do to eachother financially in game (on auction house or through market place) or out of game (account, gold selling etc etc) should have absolutly ZERO effect on whether or not RMTs or cashshops are introduced by the game company. lol.
- Syn
It's completely different, with rmt's between players what you are essentially paying for is the persons time as they have aquired whatever it is they are selling within the game mechanics like everyone else has. MT's are different as the company is selling something that not really taken them any time as they have just created it on their database automatically, so what they are selling is basically worthless and has cost them nothing (or the amount charged is totally out of proportion).
If these companies hired people to play the game and aquire the items, xp ect like everyone else then I wouldn't so damning of the system. I will never play any game that has mt's as the companies doing this are treating their customers like complete suckers.
I tried to stop them, but they wouldn't listen.
So I guess it's not really my fault after all. Nice try.
Oh, I feel ashamed of myself 8 years later.. But I was a 20 year old kid in college back then. I wasn't the only one who did this. There were a ton of people who sold rare armor/weapons, and accounts to make a little extra money. We felt that if a company can charge us 10 dollars a month to play a game, then it was only right we turn our "time" we invested into some cash to help continue paying their ridiculous monthly subscription..
Well, eventually verant interactive found out to many people were making a ton of money selling their virtual reality game items and well,,,,,they became jealous... So shortly after, verant followed by SOE made all the high end items Bind on Equip and Bind on Pickup, which reduced the amount of items being sold online. This was when I switched to selling accounts. Now, I was one of the only people on prexus server who even had a ultra rare and priceless manastone. I also had a scepter of Destruction from Sleepers which I did manage to sell for 3000.00 online ^_^ Anyway, I'd duel box my account with another account I purchased and power level characters to 50ish within a week before selling the account for a good 300-500 dollars. Was it wrong,,, yes and no. Do I regret it, yes and no. I dont regret making some nice cash while in college, but I do regret selling all those accounts to those who would rather take the easy way out and buy a high level account as opposed to starting from scratch at level 1 just like i did..
I feel because of this, alot of gamers attitudes changed to the point where devs would be forced to cater to their rants and raves. More and more MMO's were becoming so easy, dumbed down, and utterly ridiculous. The challenge and excitement of working your character up from level 1 to max level was eventually gone. Gone were the long journey's to reach your destination, gone were the incredibly annoying corpse run's from when you died in a dangerous area, gone were all the strategic and tough group gameplay where one used to log onto their game and group up in a specific "named" camp for 3-4 hours having fun bsing and meeting new people while hoping to fight a few names before having to log to study for an exam the next morning, lol... So many great features of the Old EQ became lost with new king of the MMO's like WoW, DAOC, and even EQ2.
So yes, I'm just one person to blame for all the new MMO's being dumbed down and in EZ Mode so that simple minded peon's could enjoy having their hand held and nose wiped in order for them to properly enjoy playing MMO's...
You made a statement that I dont agree with. I never once ripped anyone off. I didn't tell people to purchase my rare items and high level accounts. They chose to purchase them from me simply because they desired them so much they would pay anything for them. I sold items like Lodi Shields and Lodi belts for 200-300 dollars... All these people had to do was sit and have a couple friends do 6 hour rotations when camping lodi. They chose to purchase the items as opposed to putting in the hard work.. I actually sat and camped the fat turtle but well I did know his wondow most of the time, lol, so I really only sat at my pc for a couple hours each time he'd pop, ^_^ but thats beside the point. Saying I ripped people off is mean and I'm actually quite hurt by it...
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Yup I'm just as mean for quoting you. I realised this fully before I made the post.
I still direct my anger at SoE, but I know there's many players, along with players buying gold, items, who helped create this.
Anyway, I don't hate you.
My best friend was a gold seller in game. And we became close friends, once I found out he was selling items and I actually bought from him in the bazaar, I broke all ties with him. I have no clue how to stand on this issue sometimes.
I even helped him farm some of the stupid items, not knowing he was selling them for RL cash.
I just know these companies need to be stopped, and anyone selling gold, accounts should too. These are supposed to be games.
And don't give me the
, I feel sorry for using your quote now. I didn't use a name on purpose.
I can forgive you, you can maybe forgive me for making this post. But I won't forgive SoE.
I fail to see why players overcharging players has any effect on the developers / mmo companies themselves...
Just because players rip eachother off, does not mean that developers / game companies get warrent to the same.
Players pay moneys to game companies for a service - this usually entails a p2p game where all players are on a level footing and no player recieves special treatment from the server owners, especially not from real life trappings.
What players do to eachother financially in game (on auction house or through market place) or out of game (account, gold selling etc etc) should have absolutly ZERO effect on whether or not RMTs or cashshops are introduced by the game company. lol.
Exactly!!!!!!! I agree 10000000000% Remember, companies charge a monthly subscription to play a damn game! We have to pay to play their game. They're ALREADY making a nice profit! What gives them the right to ban those that sell gold and accounts to help pay their subscription, but yet they can set up cashshops and encourage people to purchase this from them? LOL like I said in my previous post.... Back in 99-2000 companies became JEALOUS because their customers were making some nice cash at their expense and now companies like SOE wants to milk more money out of ppl,,,,,
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Or you can look at it another way. That 4 hour 50% exp bonus potion is $10, making it prohibitive to all but the players with the most money to burn. Very few people, unless you're either rich or hopelessly addicted to the game, will blow $10 a pop on four hours of bonus XP.
Personally, I see the smaller potions selling more, since they're $1 and $3 respectively. The XP bonus might be smaller, but I can easily see people justifying the expense saying that it's less than a meal at McDonald's.
Oh, I didn't take you quoting my post personal,, I mean well,, I didn't really feel it was a little unnecessary, but hey your entitled to speak your mind.
I totally forgive you,, in fact I don't believe you did anything wrong.. The one to blame for all of this is SOE.. They're the real crooked and corrupt ones..
I'd like to comment on your last post... This friend of yours who you helped farm some of the items that he eventually sold is one A hole of a friend. Especially considering he would have the audacity to sell you items, some of which perhaps you helped him acquire,,, is just,,,, wrong and shady.. I'd NEVER do that to a friend. In fact, I was one of the richest players on my server. Say for example If you and I became friends and went out pharming, I'd split everything 50/50... And If there was something you really wanted, I'd either help you acquire the item, or I'd go ahead and purchase it for ya in EC, "this is pre SoL" as a nice surprise.. Now, only my closest rl friends and cousins really knew I sold items, money, and account online. If any of them helped me, I'd share in some of the profits.. I was in a high end raid guild and most of them really despised ebayers. Only because most of the hardcore serious gamers felt one should work hard to acquire valuable equipment. And believed those who sold high end equipment, money, accounts, etc were worse than those buying them. Hell, I was young and discovered an awesome way to make real life money so I went for it.
Anyway, I still cant believe this friend of yours would actually use you to help him make money.. WOW,, how low can one go?? Most of the time I did all this while soloing, two boxing, or had a good friend or cousin help me out. Like for example a couple times I had a cousin help me camp Lodi so I could get some sleep, lol. He had a mid 50's Bard at the time. Now, on rare occassions Lodi would drop 2 shells and sometimes even 2 belts. But then there were times when he only dropped one shell and no belts.. So, I said if two shells drops, he can have one, but if one shell drops then I'll give him half of what I made.. I remember exactly what dropped that night like it was yesterday, lol.. You probably don't care to hear about the story, but I'm gonna tell you anyway, hehe
Anyway, I had him take over camping Lodi so I could get hopefully 5 hours sleep. Lodi was at 16 hours with either 2 or 8 hours left to pop. Anyway, only 2 hours later he pops and my cousin calls my cel repeatedly for 5 minutes. I finally answer and he's LikE, DUDE GET ON NOW, LODI'S UP AND HE'S CHASING ME AROUND THE ZONE!!! LOL... I rushed to my PC, log back in with my druid and managed to track my cuz. I stared him and then checked to see what guildies were on. Only 2 level 60's were on,, a wizzy and Necro so I got them to help. And luckily a SK was in the zone camping Stormfeather or talon for the "Eyepatch of Plunder" He decided to help.. Anyway, it took everyone a good 10 minutes to get there. During that time I did what I could to kite the big fatty toytle, lol. Long story short we defeated Lodi with only 4 level 60's and my cousin who was 56. What a fight that was. I was the only real healer which was incredibly difficult for a druid, especially healing a SK. Anyway, you wouldn't believe what dropped, lol.. 2 SHELLS AND 2 BELTS, ALONG WITH 2 CLUBS. I couldn't believe it! There was literally over 1000 dollars worth of real life money right there. So, I give a shell to my cousin, I took the other shell, and I let the SK have one belt because well umm he was the only tank and we wouldn't have defeated Lodi without a tank, lol.. The last Belt was randomed between all of us because the other two guildies were also pretty rich and didn't care about it, lol.. My cousin won that belt and I put both items up for sale. We split the profits of the belt 50/50 and he got a brand new Shell out of the deal as well for only having to wait 2 hours, lol. So he was walking around with a full erection for a good month as a result of thar night, haha..
Anyway, point is I was never greedy, nor would I ever cheat anyone. I could have easily been a A hole and said, "I camped Lodi, all his good gear goes to me and my guild" But I gave a 70,000 plat item to someone I didn't even know, so how's that for being generous?
Once again, forgive me for the long post, I'm kinda bored right now...
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Or you can look at it another way. That 4 hour 50% exp bonus potion is $10, making it prohibitive to all but the players with the most money to burn. Very few people, unless you're either rich or hopelessly addicted to the game, will blow $10 a pop on four hours of bonus XP.
Personally, I see the smaller potions selling more, since they're $1 and $3 respectively. The XP bonus might be smaller, but I can easily see people justifying the expense saying that it's less than a meal at McDonald's.
Honestly, the game is already easy enough to level through. There's rested exp, bonus exp, and ridiculous exp from doing those stupid collections quests.. Over the summer I leveled a Iksar Mystic from 1-52 in about just under 3 weeks. averaging like 4 hours playing a day. And thats including doing the betrayal quest all by myself as well, lol. Imagine if i didnt waste all that time betraying to Quenos.. I probably could have made at least 3 more levels in that time..
Point is, people who pay 10 dollars for 4 hours of their time just to recieve 50% more exp is either incredibly insane or just really lazy
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)