This is all interesting to me as I've been playing Last Chaos for some time now, which is an item mall game. That being said, I have hardly played the game in recent weeks due to the fact that the company that puts the game out has added more and more items for power levelers....which RUINS any concept of game balance.
I'd planned on trying the EQ games with the free trials, but with what I'm seeing here, is it worth my time. IM based games start out with "fluff" items, but as the sales of those items slow down...(those that want em already have em) the company starts to add more "exclusive" items to keep the cash flow going...next thing you know, you have nooblets that make a toon then are at the higher echelons level wise within a week or 2......and that's what ruins the game. They lose the flavor of the game and don't experience the game in a logical growth pattern, then get bored and move on to another game. In the meantime, the older players who've gone through the normal growth pattern get frustrated that these new players who haven't paid their dues are able to "pwn" them in PvP with their essentially "bought through the item mall" characters end up leaving the game, killing the community base.
Due to these kinds of things, I will no longer play ANY game that has an item mall, as adding these things to an established game is a slap in the face of those that have worked hard to build their toons.
This is all interesting to me as I've been playing Last Chaos for some time now, which is an item mall game. That being said, I have hardly played the game in recent weeks due to the fact that the company that puts the game out has added more and more items for power levelers....which RUINS any concept of game balance. I'd planned on trying the EQ games with the free trials, but with what I'm seeing here, is it worth my time. IM based games start out with "fluff" items, but as the sales of those items slow down...(those that want em already have em) the company starts to add more "exclusive" items to keep the cash flow going...next thing you know, you have nooblets that make a toon then are at the higher echelons level wise within a week or 2......and that's what ruins the game. They lose the flavor of the game and don't experience the game in a logical growth pattern, then get bored and move on to another game. In the meantime, the older players who've gone through the normal growth pattern get frustrated that these new players who haven't paid their dues are able to "pwn" them in PvP with their essentially "bought through the item mall" characters end up leaving the game, killing the community base. Due to these kinds of things, I will no longer play ANY game that has an item mall, as adding these things to an established game is a slap in the face of those that have worked hard to build their toons.
I can't agree with you more Infinity, but wow that red is hard on my eyes. That is the reason item maul games can't keep players long. Personally I am awed you stuck with Last Chaos, that is probably the grindiest of all the item mall games that I have tried.
The main reason I stayed with the game so long is my guild. But as members from the guild have moved on, it made me question my dedication to the game as a whole. Heck, my main's a 92 Archer/Healer in that game, and I just got bored after a bit, and the final straw was the decision they made to remove the monthly recall cards from the game.....an insult to the intelligence of the long time players who KNOW that the recall card is NOT the problem when it comes to power leveling. Aeria's greed is killing the game off. They only care about the bottom line, which means making it as easy (and expensive) as possible for the NEW players at the expense of the long time players that support their game. Rather shortsighted of them methinks.
the hundred SOE flame threads on this forum alone:
So why is it that every time Sony does anything even remotely contentious or innovative in this stagnant genre (for better or worse) there's this unprecedented kneejerk reaction from their gaming community? Out come the pitchforks and flaming torches, and mob mentality takes over. It's become fashionable to hate SOE and attribute them the role of 'villain' in the MMOsphere, but the truth is many will embrace these changes and many more will choose to ignore them and go about their gaming lives unaffected by them.
The sky is not falling. More than anything, I pity those who decide to stop playing a game they love simply through some misguided sense of moral outrage or social injustice. At the end of the day they're mostly hurting themselves.
OK this is not how i see this Exp potions are not fluff when part of the fun of the game is leveling quicker then others dont this put a unfair advantage on the have vs the have nots?
i think this is the first step to alot of other things now if they want to make the game free then do rmt then they can join the other mmo,s but to me they are taking updates that were supposed to happen in mmo and putting them towards charged items.
in 2000 when i started everquest i was told that the reason we paid for a mmo was so that they would add more content for free because we were paying a monthly fee, what is it 13 paid expansions later and there are still imcomplete quests from the original game and places on the map never opened?
RIP sony please sell Eq to people who cared what the original game was about !
Some lead and some follow I prefer to stand beside!
the only xp potion i saw on there is the achievement potion, which grants you a tiny bonus over 4 hours for achievement xp, do you know how often you get achievement xp as opposed to regular xp? RARELY. In fact, other than a noobie toon, you probably will find 1, maybe 2 achievement worthy xp npcs or locations in 4 hours, so that potion is a waste of money.
mmo should not be cash shop and p2p at the same time...thats what pissed me off in iRO
right now, just decorative/fluff stuff. If they go with more essential items, i'll get pissed then
Why wait for it to happen. Station cash opens the door for exactly what you describe and the Senior Producer has admitted they are discussing selling bigger better stuff like armor and weapons.
You chastise people as being haters as they are upset about this, but right here you are saying that if the items were just a little different you would be lining up right behind them. Is the difference really so drastic that you can't see how close you are to being one of "them"?
This is exactly what I have been talking about with the subscribers indifference. Watching so many people think it will never happen to them is perplexing to say the least. I don't know what could be a bigger red flag than how SOE snuck this in after saying they would never allow this sort of thing in the everquest series.
Before you criticize someone for getting upset and leaving, consider this. SOE factored them in as acceptable losses when they launched this. They knew, just like they did with the NGE, this would cause people to leave. Is it so hard to believe that if they are not challenged on this they won't do it again and you might be one of the acceptable losses next time? Food for thought.
you asked why am i playing it now? Because, right now it is fluff items being sold. If it remains like this i have no problem playing and not buying a thing. IF it gets worse, then i will quit and not whine like a 4 year old about it. You guys are currently making a huge issue out of the fluff items, and i dont agree with that, but WILL agree if they start seliing items which are gamebreaking.
Follow? It's not that hard. RIGHT NOW, it has no effect on my gameplay or fun.
Many of us understand that this is a business for these companies and it's all about making dollars. I am surprised that more companies do not offer discounted monthly fees to boost their player base and revenue instead of the milking approach. ...
...
As a final thought, another sad thing I have noticed over the years is how rude we all are to one another both in game and on forums such as this one. We need to stop blasting everyone who has a different opinion with rudeness and try to focus on more positive feedback. Just my two cents worth.
That is the odd thing about MMO's. When the number of subscribers goes down, the pricing does not go down (the subscription rate), but rather upward. In some case, the price change is radical, going to a Free-To-Play method. Yet, reducing the subscription rates seems to be an unthinkable business idea...
As for we all blasting one another. I believe that is due to our inherent nature of being gamers. We are a competitive lot.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
... Fluff items are no big deal people? Well excuse me but I have never cared for stats in games, I care for looks, I am a fluff player and this announcement means that if I want new fluff items I no longer have to participate in a contest or do some quests, I have to spend MORE of my cash, on top of a monthly sub and payment for each expansion. ...
I had to quote this as this does directly impact one of the four groups of MMO players, the Socializers. This does make complete sense to me and I find the quote by Cynthe to be justified.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
you asked why am i playing it now? Because, right now it is fluff items being sold. If it remains like this i have no problem playing and not buying a thing. IF it gets worse, then i will quit and not whine like a 4 year old about it. You guys are currently making a huge issue out of the fluff items, and i dont agree with that, but WILL agree if they start seliing items which are gamebreaking.
Follow? It's not that hard. RIGHT NOW, it has no effect on my gameplay or fun.
I didn't ask why you were playing now, I asked why don't you make a statement instead of argue with those who disagree with the direction this is going. You are very close to being in the same sitaution as those you are complaining about, yet you do nothing.
Thats fine I suppose and I am very certain we will never hear you complain about anything SOE releated here. Of that I am sure.
... Fluff items are no big deal people? Well excuse me but I have never cared for stats in games, I care for looks, I am a fluff player and this announcement means that if I want new fluff items I no longer have to participate in a contest or do some quests, I have to spend MORE of my cash, on top of a monthly sub and payment for each expansion. ...
I had to quote this as this does directly impact one of the four groups of MMO players, the Socializers. This does make complete sense to me and I find the quote by Cynthe to be justified.
Yes oddly..
I played UO for a long time. You had people that cried about the PvP and left.. you had people who PvP'd and cried about the murder system and/or stat loss and later Trammel.. and left.
I stuck around through it all. I spent hours in the game trading rares...
In fact I'd say one of the biggest aspects of the game was these things people like to call "fluff". Heck I used to do property speculation in UO... see someone selling a house cheaply.. buy it. Decorate it some and sell it for a profit.
I suppose that's an odd concept to some people here.
Many things in UO weren't even intended or actual game systems. Yet it lead to things like "better homes and castles" I think was the name of it. Having events for the best looking house.. people who were paid in game money to decorate peoples houses.
Much of this showed up later in SWG.
I don't think EQ1 had much of this but EQ2 did. People would decorate their house instance or hire someone to do it.
So some of these fluff items yes.. tread on those people. Just as much as items that should have been schematics being added to SWG in the TCG.
etc etc
No it doesn't affect "game play".
It can affect how some people play.. and I think to attack people who have had their type of play affected.. just goes to show how much most people seem to only think of .. how they play and that everyone else should play that way.. and feel the way they do.
Which imho is pretty much how we got to the current crapfest we call MMO's.
When I first played SWG, I did not think much of decorating. I was more about adventuring and combat. That was until I went into some other players house. "This can be done?" or something like was what I asked. Never thought about it really, until I saw what a player could do with a house. I considered it more of a doll-house type of effect with action figures... but that did help me feel like a kid again. Go about finding the things or talking to other players to know where or how. The xp and credits suck, but having that 'combat useless' item, just to sit on a table in a house or guild hall, all seemed worthwhile.
Or going about getting the "look" I wanted with clothes. Clothes... clothes are fluff, they offer no armor protection and are pretty much useless in combat; but yet have a place in a game, perhaps just like dressing up an action figure or doll, or getting into character.
Oh well... Are you one of those characters who wears clothes and not always suited in armor? Are you searching for a new cool look? No problem, just pony up some bills.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
you asked why am i playing it now? Because, right now it is fluff items being sold. If it remains like this i have no problem playing and not buying a thing. IF it gets worse, then i will quit and not whine like a 4 year old about it. You guys are currently making a huge issue out of the fluff items, and i dont agree with that, but WILL agree if they start seliing items which are gamebreaking.
Follow? It's not that hard. RIGHT NOW, it has no effect on my gameplay or fun.
Read the new Eula changes and attempt to say it is not a huge issue. According to Sony they can distribution your personal information to anyone they please. Attempting to defend these douche bags is a true exercise in futility, just makes you look entirely foolish.
you asked why am i playing it now? Because, right now it is fluff items being sold. If it remains like this i have no problem playing and not buying a thing. IF it gets worse, then i will quit and not whine like a 4 year old about it. You guys are currently making a huge issue out of the fluff items, and i dont agree with that, but WILL agree if they start seliing items which are gamebreaking.
Follow? It's not that hard. RIGHT NOW, it has no effect on my gameplay or fun.
Read the new Eula changes and attempt to say it is not a huge issue. According to Sony they can distribution your personal information to anyone they please. Attempting to defend these douche bags is a true exercise in futility, just makes you look entirely foolish.
Read Blizzard and CCP, as well as Turbines EULA....they do the exact same thing. Who looks foolish now?
you asked why am i playing it now? Because, right now it is fluff items being sold. If it remains like this i have no problem playing and not buying a thing. IF it gets worse, then i will quit and not whine like a 4 year old about it. You guys are currently making a huge issue out of the fluff items, and i dont agree with that, but WILL agree if they start seliing items which are gamebreaking.
Follow? It's not that hard. RIGHT NOW, it has no effect on my gameplay or fun.
Read the new Eula changes and attempt to say it is not a huge issue. According to Sony they can distribution your personal information to anyone they please. Attempting to defend these douche bags is a true exercise in futility, just makes you look entirely foolish.
Read Blizzard and CCP, as well as Turbines EULA....they do the exact same thing. Who looks foolish now?
wrong blizzard in their eula, claim they do scan your RAM and hardware to look for programs which might affect gameplay. They gather the information from your ram and retrieve it. So yes, information is getting uploaded about which programs you are running
wrong blizzard in their eula, claim they do scan your RAM and hardware to look for programs which might affect gameplay. They gather the information from your ram and retrieve it. So yes, information is getting uploaded about which programs you are running
No personally identifiable information is being collected. Blizzard is scanning for programs that interact with the memory space of Warcraft to stop hacking, cheating, botting, etc. The scan as I understand it happens on your system and not transmitted to the servers. Show me where the Blizzard EULA says they get your consent to disclose your personal information to whomever they chose.
SOE is saying they have the right to do whatever they chose with your personal information by any means they can get their hands on it. They are flat out saying they will not keep your information private and will do with it as they please.
You fail to see the difference for whatever reasons you are chosing, but there is a mountain of difference between the two.
Comments
I just went back to EQ2 and they pull this. A lot of people are really mad about it.
This is all interesting to me as I've been playing Last Chaos for some time now, which is an item mall game. That being said, I have hardly played the game in recent weeks due to the fact that the company that puts the game out has added more and more items for power levelers....which RUINS any concept of game balance.
I'd planned on trying the EQ games with the free trials, but with what I'm seeing here, is it worth my time. IM based games start out with "fluff" items, but as the sales of those items slow down...(those that want em already have em) the company starts to add more "exclusive" items to keep the cash flow going...next thing you know, you have nooblets that make a toon then are at the higher echelons level wise within a week or 2......and that's what ruins the game. They lose the flavor of the game and don't experience the game in a logical growth pattern, then get bored and move on to another game. In the meantime, the older players who've gone through the normal growth pattern get frustrated that these new players who haven't paid their dues are able to "pwn" them in PvP with their essentially "bought through the item mall" characters end up leaving the game, killing the community base.
Due to these kinds of things, I will no longer play ANY game that has an item mall, as adding these things to an established game is a slap in the face of those that have worked hard to build their toons.
I can't agree with you more Infinity, but wow that red is hard on my eyes. That is the reason item maul games can't keep players long. Personally I am awed you stuck with Last Chaos, that is probably the grindiest of all the item mall games that I have tried.
The main reason I stayed with the game so long is my guild. But as members from the guild have moved on, it made me question my dedication to the game as a whole. Heck, my main's a 92 Archer/Healer in that game, and I just got bored after a bit, and the final straw was the decision they made to remove the monthly recall cards from the game.....an insult to the intelligence of the long time players who KNOW that the recall card is NOT the problem when it comes to power leveling. Aeria's greed is killing the game off. They only care about the bottom line, which means making it as easy (and expensive) as possible for the NEW players at the expense of the long time players that support their game. Rather shortsighted of them methinks.
BTW this easier on the eyes?....
what are they selling?
mmo should not be cash shop and p2p at the same time...thats what pissed me off in iRO
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
right now, just decorative/fluff stuff. If they go with more essential items, i'll get pissed then
right now, just decorative/fluff stuff. If they go with more essential items, i'll get pissed then
oh, thats not that bad, lets hope they dont get worse.
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
the hundred SOE flame threads on this forum alone:
So why is it that every time Sony does anything even remotely contentious or innovative in this stagnant genre (for better or worse) there's this unprecedented kneejerk reaction from their gaming community? Out come the pitchforks and flaming torches, and mob mentality takes over. It's become fashionable to hate SOE and attribute them the role of 'villain' in the MMOsphere, but the truth is many will embrace these changes and many more will choose to ignore them and go about their gaming lives unaffected by them.
The sky is not falling. More than anything, I pity those who decide to stop playing a game they love simply through some misguided sense of moral outrage or social injustice. At the end of the day they're mostly hurting themselves.
OK this is not how i see this Exp potions are not fluff when part of the fun of the game is leveling quicker then others dont this put a unfair advantage on the have vs the have nots?
i think this is the first step to alot of other things now if they want to make the game free then do rmt then they can join the other mmo,s but to me they are taking updates that were supposed to happen in mmo and putting them towards charged items.
in 2000 when i started everquest i was told that the reason we paid for a mmo was so that they would add more content for free because we were paying a monthly fee, what is it 13 paid expansions later and there are still imcomplete quests from the original game and places on the map never opened?
RIP sony please sell Eq to people who cared what the original game was about !
Some lead and some follow I prefer to stand beside!
the only xp potion i saw on there is the achievement potion, which grants you a tiny bonus over 4 hours for achievement xp, do you know how often you get achievement xp as opposed to regular xp? RARELY. In fact, other than a noobie toon, you probably will find 1, maybe 2 achievement worthy xp npcs or locations in 4 hours, so that potion is a waste of money.
right now, just decorative/fluff stuff. If they go with more essential items, i'll get pissed then
Why wait for it to happen. Station cash opens the door for exactly what you describe and the Senior Producer has admitted they are discussing selling bigger better stuff like armor and weapons.
You chastise people as being haters as they are upset about this, but right here you are saying that if the items were just a little different you would be lining up right behind them. Is the difference really so drastic that you can't see how close you are to being one of "them"?
This is exactly what I have been talking about with the subscribers indifference. Watching so many people think it will never happen to them is perplexing to say the least. I don't know what could be a bigger red flag than how SOE snuck this in after saying they would never allow this sort of thing in the everquest series.
Before you criticize someone for getting upset and leaving, consider this. SOE factored them in as acceptable losses when they launched this. They knew, just like they did with the NGE, this would cause people to leave. Is it so hard to believe that if they are not challenged on this they won't do it again and you might be one of the acceptable losses next time? Food for thought.
why wait? umm because maybe i am really enjoying EQ2 atm? i know crazy...someone can actually enjoy a mmorpg!
You can enjoy a game and protest the direction it is heading at the same time... Crazy huh?
or you can watch it head in a direction that you state would make you angry and complain about those who do take a stance.
you asked why am i playing it now? Because, right now it is fluff items being sold. If it remains like this i have no problem playing and not buying a thing. IF it gets worse, then i will quit and not whine like a 4 year old about it. You guys are currently making a huge issue out of the fluff items, and i dont agree with that, but WILL agree if they start seliing items which are gamebreaking.
Follow? It's not that hard. RIGHT NOW, it has no effect on my gameplay or fun.
That is the odd thing about MMO's. When the number of subscribers goes down, the pricing does not go down (the subscription rate), but rather upward. In some case, the price change is radical, going to a Free-To-Play method. Yet, reducing the subscription rates seems to be an unthinkable business idea...
As for we all blasting one another. I believe that is due to our inherent nature of being gamers. We are a competitive lot.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
I had to quote this as this does directly impact one of the four groups of MMO players, the Socializers. This does make complete sense to me and I find the quote by Cynthe to be justified.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
I didn't ask why you were playing now, I asked why don't you make a statement instead of argue with those who disagree with the direction this is going. You are very close to being in the same sitaution as those you are complaining about, yet you do nothing.
Thats fine I suppose and I am very certain we will never hear you complain about anything SOE releated here. Of that I am sure.
I had to quote this as this does directly impact one of the four groups of MMO players, the Socializers. This does make complete sense to me and I find the quote by Cynthe to be justified.
Yes oddly..
I played UO for a long time. You had people that cried about the PvP and left.. you had people who PvP'd and cried about the murder system and/or stat loss and later Trammel.. and left.
I stuck around through it all. I spent hours in the game trading rares...
In fact I'd say one of the biggest aspects of the game was these things people like to call "fluff". Heck I used to do property speculation in UO... see someone selling a house cheaply.. buy it. Decorate it some and sell it for a profit.
I suppose that's an odd concept to some people here.
Many things in UO weren't even intended or actual game systems. Yet it lead to things like "better homes and castles" I think was the name of it. Having events for the best looking house.. people who were paid in game money to decorate peoples houses.
Much of this showed up later in SWG.
I don't think EQ1 had much of this but EQ2 did. People would decorate their house instance or hire someone to do it.
So some of these fluff items yes.. tread on those people. Just as much as items that should have been schematics being added to SWG in the TCG.
etc etc
No it doesn't affect "game play".
It can affect how some people play.. and I think to attack people who have had their type of play affected.. just goes to show how much most people seem to only think of .. how they play and that everyone else should play that way.. and feel the way they do.
Which imho is pretty much how we got to the current crapfest we call MMO's.
I have to agree.
When I first played SWG, I did not think much of decorating. I was more about adventuring and combat. That was until I went into some other players house. "This can be done?" or something like was what I asked. Never thought about it really, until I saw what a player could do with a house. I considered it more of a doll-house type of effect with action figures... but that did help me feel like a kid again. Go about finding the things or talking to other players to know where or how. The xp and credits suck, but having that 'combat useless' item, just to sit on a table in a house or guild hall, all seemed worthwhile.
Or going about getting the "look" I wanted with clothes. Clothes... clothes are fluff, they offer no armor protection and are pretty much useless in combat; but yet have a place in a game, perhaps just like dressing up an action figure or doll, or getting into character.
Oh well... Are you one of those characters who wears clothes and not always suited in armor? Are you searching for a new cool look? No problem, just pony up some bills.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Does SOE's move actually surprise you people who are upset by this?
SOE has a long track record of being complete douche bags. If they commit some more douche baggery, is it surprising?
Instead of complaining, just quit their games. Don't pay them one cent!
SOE free for 13 months and loving it.
heh, I was going to come back to EQ2 after 2 years gone. Then found this, so not coming back, easy as that.
Read the new Eula changes and attempt to say it is not a huge issue. According to Sony they can distribution your personal information to anyone they please. Attempting to defend these douche bags is a true exercise in futility, just makes you look entirely foolish.
Read the new Eula changes and attempt to say it is not a huge issue. According to Sony they can distribution your personal information to anyone they please. Attempting to defend these douche bags is a true exercise in futility, just makes you look entirely foolish.
Read Blizzard and CCP, as well as Turbines EULA....they do the exact same thing. Who looks foolish now?
Read the new Eula changes and attempt to say it is not a huge issue. According to Sony they can distribution your personal information to anyone they please. Attempting to defend these douche bags is a true exercise in futility, just makes you look entirely foolish.
Read Blizzard and CCP, as well as Turbines EULA....they do the exact same thing. Who looks foolish now?
CCP might, but Blizzard and Turbine don't.
wrong blizzard in their eula, claim they do scan your RAM and hardware to look for programs which might affect gameplay. They gather the information from your ram and retrieve it. So yes, information is getting uploaded about which programs you are running
No personally identifiable information is being collected. Blizzard is scanning for programs that interact with the memory space of Warcraft to stop hacking, cheating, botting, etc. The scan as I understand it happens on your system and not transmitted to the servers. Show me where the Blizzard EULA says they get your consent to disclose your personal information to whomever they chose.
SOE is saying they have the right to do whatever they chose with your personal information by any means they can get their hands on it. They are flat out saying they will not keep your information private and will do with it as they please.
You fail to see the difference for whatever reasons you are chosing, but there is a mountain of difference between the two.