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MMORPGS should have more levels!
Nimrod4154
Member Posts: 864
Ok well from seeing how fast people can get to level 60 in some games, how about raising the cap of most games to 100+? Maybe they would make the grind hard around 60+ and give you a lot of high end content? Id love to be able to get to level 150 and have a hero title. I just think that 60 levels is not enough if you can get there in 4 months.
Another thing i dont understand, how can people play the same level 65 character for 4 years? My RL friend's brother plays a mage on EQ and he has been level 65 for 3 years. He rarely plays alts and i cannot believe that he would still play.
I think that people who have spent 3 years playing a game should be allowed to get to level 150, hence they have had a subscription for a long time and need more content. But I would also not mind if 85% of games was high end content, therefor you would spend a long time getting to high end(By leveling) and then you would have 10X as much content to complete in the high levels.
Games Played:DoAC, EQ, CoH, Lineage 2, Planetside, and Shadowbane.
Games Playing:None:(
Waiting For:WoW, EQII
Comments
Games Played:DoAC, EQ, CoH, Lineage 2, Planetside, and Shadowbane.
Games Playing:None:(
Waiting For:WoW, EQII
The problem with raising the level cap is that.. you have to have content for those extra 40+ levels.
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
Yes but what about games like EQ who popped out pointless expansion packs when they could be focusing on giving more high end content? Over the course of 3 years EQ has created a lot of high end content but they also created a bad community at the same time.
Games Played:DoAC, EQ, CoH, Lineage 2, Planetside, and Shadowbane.
Games Playing:None:(
Waiting For:WoW, EQII
Oh geez... I'm glad there's a cap. I'm even more happy when the game has content and a lot of expansions.
Because after you finish grinding, you can finally explore the content of the game without any worries of dying by the hand of some high level creature because you know you can kick it's butt.
And thanks to expansions it adds new content to the game so you can explore new places and try out new things.
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Stealth - Ambush - Hemorrhage - Sinister Strike x2 - Cold Blood - Eviscerate - Vanish - Preparation - Cold Blood - Ambush - ... you're dead! :P
haha. We still look down on all who still use the pathetic leveling system. they should keep EXP but make the difference for each time it does something, unnoticably small.
Yeah... that's it... let's keep the "who spent most time playing" reward system... great!
I can't figure out why some people would actually ask for more levels
"I am trying to see things from your perspective but I just can't get my head that far up my @$$."
"I am trying to see things from your perspective but I just can't get my head that far up my @$$."
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"Do I come to your workplace and tell you how to kill civilians? No, so don't tell me how to do my job" - Sam Fischer.
--OracleP4
Like: DAoC, CoH, WOW, GW, DnL
Dislike: SoR, EQ, EQ2, SWG, KO, AC2
Don't Care About: Most Everything Else
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"Do I come to your workplace and tell you how to kill civilians? No, so don't tell me how to do my job" - Sam Fischer.
--OracleP4
Like: DAoC, WOW, GW, DnL
Dislike: SoR, EQ, EQ2, SWG, KO, AC2, CoH
Don't Care About: Most Everything Else
Yes lol I think my statement about spending more time playing was false. I dont know but how about raising it to 100 then?
Games Played:DoAC, EQ, CoH, Lineage 2, Planetside, and Shadowbane.
Games Playing:None:(
Waiting For:WoW, EQII
I liked how AC1 did it. While they were still working on it there was so much high level content that you didn't need to max your levels. Yet the option of leveling was still there because the cap was so high. If the high end content is there than the levels can be higher. One has to have the other to work.
"Feel free to hate me, but hate me for the right reasons."
"Your still ignorant if you believe the first thing you see when the blindfold is removed."
"Be smart enough to know I'm smarter than you."
I dont get this whole love for levels. A skill based system is a much more powerful and flexible system.
Your not trapped into a character template...use a skill, it slowly raises. Matches real life better and doesnt create a world full of clones. Nothing like being a lumberjack mage who makes and wears his own dresses.
Skill based character advancement > *
Course I think the main drawback for people who are anti-skill based is that they are unable to say "mycoolguy lvl 60 cleric" in their signatures.....
"I wasnt gonna just ram it home. I was gonna lube it up and ease it in there inch by inch....like a gentleman." - Hank
I agree but there is also something to be said for accomplishment. I like a little healthy competition between me and my friends. Like I said...I think AC1 had one of the best leveling systems ever.
"Feel free to hate me, but hate me for the right reasons."
"Your still ignorant if you believe the first thing you see when the blindfold is removed."
"Be smart enough to know I'm smarter than you."
Who said anything about accomplishment. Its no less work to raise individual skills. The only difference between the two is:
a) skills gives you way more flexibility
b) takes more effort to describe / compare your character to others
Class only limit character development and diversity, not encourage it. I worked real hard on my skills in UO and I did have a feeling of great accomplishment.
"I wasnt gonna just ram it home. I was gonna lube it up and ease it in there inch by inch....like a gentleman." - Hank
Here is my idea of a good game. Lets keep the level at... lets say 50 for this example.
Now when they come out with an expansion, lets give a HUGE balance of the goods that the expansion will give. New content for ALL levels. Maybe even some times, no End-Game content. I know that wouldn't fit will with all players, but I think its a good idea and might give people a reason to start up new characters and keep all the areas active. It might not work, but I would like it. I love making new charaters and being small as much as I like getting a high level character.
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These are just my opinions, please direct your opinions of my opinions to your mama, not me and the other readers.
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Win XP Pro
AMD Athlon 64 3200+
1600 Mhz FSB
1 Gig PC3200 DDR400 RAM
160 Gig Ultra ATA HD
GeForce FX5700 256MB AGP
SoundBlaster Live 5.1
8X DVD+/-RW
Games Played:DoAC, EQ, CoH, Lineage 2, Planetside, and Shadowbane.
Games Playing:None:(
Waiting For:WoW, EQII
Thats what I mean, I didn't mean no end game content. Just maybe not focusing on that for all the expansions. Most expansions that I have seen just focus on the end game and throw in some crap for the lower levels. Since we all know I'm talking about EQ since thats the one with so many, the only one that I feel that did a good job was LDoN. That had new goods that a younger level could play in. I don't know all the details about that one though because I didn't play it. I quit after getting burnted out on Plane of Power.
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These are just my opinions, please direct your opinions of my opinions to your mama, not me and the other readers.
---------------------------------------
Win XP Pro
AMD Athlon 64 3200+
1600 Mhz FSB
1 Gig PC3200 DDR400 RAM
160 Gig Ultra ATA HD
GeForce FX5700 256MB AGP
SoundBlaster Live 5.1
8X DVD+/-RW
UXO had an insteresting level system, which could be incorporated into a skill/level combination, where you actually gain points in attributes (strength, dexterity, etc) and skills over time, and once you have gained a certain number of points you 'level up'. In that sense, level is purely a way of judging a character and doesnt make for a cookie cutter character. IE iin EQ everyone has the same stats without anygear as anyone else, but with the skill/level system it only gives you a rough idea of how powerful they are and has no bearing on their abilities or attributes.
Personnally I am a pro-UNLIMITED amount of levels(could be many soft caps althought).
There should be UNLIMITED amount of secondary XP to earn on olds levels already earned with an exemplar or SK system, either 1 big system, or many smaller systems for each level range and 1 overlapping system.
The day I have no levels and no AAs, no XP to earn in any form, I just stop playing. Oh, I might explore a new zone, once. But if I dont need to XP, I wont explore it in detail no matter how nice it is.
If you put a limit on levels, can at least secondary XP be unlimited? I mean...I REALLY need such a feature, and putting a grind based on my progression should aggro every casual in the world.
Just make sure you work it out intelligently. LEVEL CAPS could work BOTH ways, and make you of the level range specified for a zone. Exemple, in Sebilis someone lower then 45 might be temporarily raised to level 45 and then earn secondary XP in Crushbone. Someone higher then 55 can be temporarily dropped to 55 and also work on secondary XP. You dont need to have a strong static system, if someone is 58, maybe they remain 58, but when they ding 59, then they are bringed to 55 as the official level cap and if they want to grow stronger for those levels range, they can improve gear OR secondary XPs(unlimited).
In life I never can reach the completey best state, which should it be the same into a game, now we dont want to have setbacks, so the only way to make it always progressing and no setback, it is an unlimited progression.
More levels and AAs is a temporary solution, I REALLY need unlimited XP! With intelligents levels caps, you can make it fun for everyone. A level 5 entering Sebilis could still make some fun there as a level 45, but if they want to be Uber in sebilis, they will have to go out and level all the way up to 45, then they can level to 55 in sebilis and earn more secondary XP as well!
IDEALLY: Skills system for solo(with some form of levels maybe) and class system for grouping, 2 differents system that slightly affect each other in a trivial way. You can even offer ''package deal'' that represent class for folks that want to stick to a class when they solo(not that they are restricted to it, but as a basic developpment form).
PS: Raiders dont like XP, levels should NOT be linked to raiding as much as they are if at all. I dont want to see their ugly raiding faces, they dont want to see my ugly hunting face, the less we are enforced to share, the better the game!
PPS: Unlimited levels(and more of them only to an extend) however piss folks that want to make raiders the ultimate best characters, because gear earned by a level 80 is a joke by a level 400 standards, this is why raiding should not be linked to the level system. A dragon should see no difference between a farmer or a knight unless they earn raiding dragon hunting...and this stuff should hardly help against hoards of goblins...need 2 systems...or to just remove raiding until you figure it out at a later point without harming non-raiders. Raiders rather wait a little more then have to consider non-raiders uber folks into their strategies.
PPPS: A raider CAN also like the non-raiding game(and vice versa), but you are far from having a majority of raiders that are efficients non-raiders(and vice versa), and making a lame person good in a system they dont deserve is not helping the game at all, the game lose credibility(and players). Making me good for raiders is pissing most raiders. Making raiders good in the regular non-raiding system is pissing most non-raiders that see no worth in them.
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Well heres an idea, how about a HUGE amount of AA's? And also you wouldnt "level" but instead you would gain a few stat points every time you level past cap. And the stats should have caps so you do not own everyone.
Any in reply to Anofalye, 400 would probably take 5 years if they made grind the way it is today. Just think of leveling to 60 and it being 7 times as hard!
Games Played:DoAC, EQ, CoH, Lineage 2, Planetside, and Shadowbane.
Games Playing:None:(
Waiting For:WoW, EQII
AA would defintly be a good idea for WoW also dont forget they will be implenting hero classes , that should give something to do.
Saga of Ryzom :
Hundreds of skills
Each skill = lvl 250 cap
Beat that !
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Playing : Uncharted Waters Online
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EvE has no levels and to learn all the skills to max would take years and years, by which point there would be new skills. As alot of the content is player driven, there is little need to add huge amounts of high end pve content.
The EVE system proves you can do it without levels. It's not a perfect system, but it's much more refreshing than grinding out ambiguous, artificial levels.
In the past, levels were needed as the content was not there and you hit a wall. These days however, games have instanced/dynamic high end content so I don't see why levels matter. Games like WoW should have no preset limit and the instanced dungeons/raids calculate the difficulty by averaging the raid. Say everyone is level 70, well make it 75 and if everyonei s 75, make is 80, etc.... content is more dynamic than ever so it can keep changing, but forcing you to remain at level 65 (like EQ) for around 2 years makes you lose interest because you know that your character will physically never get any stronger.
(offtopic)Dynamic content should help with more than level. Look at EQ when it came out, the strongest weapon might have been 8/20 and in those days, that was incredible, but now, you have weapons that might be 30/20 so that today's strongest character could massacre the strongest one of 3 years ago losing maybe 10% of his/her hp... levels and equipment should be randomly generated and get stronger as you get stronger.
(ontopicagain)The technology is there so that even without expansions, game should automatically increase in difficulty as you get stronger... as for levels, I've always thought that games should have a ladder that climbs exponentially where it might take 3-4 months to reach 50, but another 3-4 months for 60, 3-4 months for 65, etc.... so that unlike what you might see in Everquest these days, if you run across someone that is level 87, you know that this person has put a lot into it. There is no reward now to reaching high level, I was 65 in Everquest after 5 months and I am just a casual gamer.
Feneant
20 something paladin
30 something weaponsmith
I wish they made an MMORPG of my favorite Book and Dice game,
Deadlands: The Weird West
For those who haven't heard of it, picture this;
"Wild Wild West" + "Resident Evil" x 100
Anyways, their system of character advancement is nice. You get "bounty points" for certain objectives the "Marshall" or Game Master has laid out for you. These are represented by poker chips (White, Red, and Blue) which you turn into 1,2, or 3 points respectavely.
Each skill level/stat level or stat die type is bought by spending a certain amount of bounty points
To raise a skill you need the amount of points equal to the next level (From 3 to 4, you need 4 points)
To raise a stat level you need the amount of points equal to twice the next level (From 3 to 4, you need 8 points)
To raise a stat die type you need the amount of points equal to three times the next die type (from a d8 to a d10 you need 30 points)
Problem is (which I don't see it as a problem) that you need to have Perma-death and Open PvP enabled for this game to truely work.
Perma-death is because, if you die, there is a chance you can become, something else
Full PvP, because the game allows you to be good or evil
"Rehab is for quitters."
"Rehab is for quitters."