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Impressions after one evening
Aganazer
Member Posts: 1,319
I played the game from level 1 to level 5 in about 3-4 hours. I probably could have done it faster, but I spent a lot of time reading up on skills and attributes and exploring around the newbie zone. I'll try to include the bad with the good in my impressions.
Character Creation
I bet the first thing that anyone would notice when making a character is that all the characters have very large feet! The character creation is a simple matter of choosing from a list of body types and faces. It’s not as deep as some games even though there was plenty of variety in clothing and armor to choose from. I don’t think anyone would have trouble making themselves have a distinctive look. Still, the character models are lacking in quality compared to some higher budget titles.
First Impression
My first impression wasn’t that great, but I was prepared for it so no surprises there. The camera has a slight fishbowl effect that most 3D games don’t have. You get used to it quickly enough. I am somewhat sensitive to motion sickness and never had a problem with that at all.
The sounds are very subdued compared to most games. Everything in the starting area felt very wide and flat. The NPC activity in the starting town was minimal. The animals I saw like dogs, chickens, rabbits, etc all seemed to have detail issues when you are a little ways away from them. They were a little ‘floaty’ in how they moved when you are too far away to see their legs.
Graphics and Sound
The graphics remind me a lot of Asheron’s Call for some reason. Not that they are as poor as Asheron’s Call, but they are more of a modern equivalent of what AC was when it was released. The graphics have a very unique style to them that can only be described as ‘organic’. They felt very natural. Nothing ever felt cramped or claustrophobic like EQ2 or AoC.
The character animations are barely acceptable. Better than Vanguard, but worse than WoW. Despite this, the animations worked well by responded appropriately to player input (unlike Vanguard). Little things like sound effect timing was dead on.
The aesthetics are outstanding. The subtle sound effects and mellow music all contribute to this. It’s probably the most relaxing MMOG I have ever played. It really made me want to kick back, fire one up, and get immersed in the environment.
Performance-wise, I was able to max out the graphic options on a Nvidia 8800 GT. The client was stable with no crashes. Even playing on European servers I never noticed any lag or latency.
Quests
This is where TCoS really starts to differ from other MMOG’s. The game still has quests with little icons above the heads of quest givers, but there is one major difference. They don’t put quest markers on your map. Each quest has a bulleted list of clear objectives, but if you want to know where to go to complete the objectives then you need to read the quest text. I NEVER had a problem finding my objectives. Also, map markers do show up on the minimap which zooms out quite a bit.
This effectively gives you a good excuse to read quest text and get into the story. Just like quests in general gave people a reason to explore the map, this quest system gives you a reason to learn about the story. Those with an aversion to reading will probably hate this and won’t last more than an hour or two in this game.
Combat
Combat is the meat and potatoes of any MMOG. In my opinion, an MMOG is only as good as its combat system. The combat in TCoS is unique among MMOG’s. There are too many details to go into here, but its real time and there is no concept of dodging, missing, etc as character statistics. If you don’t want to be hit, then get yourself out of the way!
They are calling it twitch based combat, but that’s not fair because that would imply that it’s overly fast which it isn’t. It really comes down to the simple difference that you move a lot while fighting. It adds an element that takes combat beyond the standard button mashing in other RPG’s.
That’s not the only difference in TCoS’s combat. The enemy AI is really well done. Wolves chase squirrels. Enemies respond to the player at somewhat realistic distances. Enemies have a limited sense of self preservation. I could write an entire essay on how cool the AI is. This is probably the most significant accomplishment in TCoS and it’s what sets it apart from other MMOG’s.
Conclusion
TCoS has a compelling old-school appeal to it. It’s definitely not the polished theme park experience that many have come to expect from an MMOG. It’s a game that won’t agree with most people. Comparing TCoS to the modern big name MMOG’s is a lot like comparing what Asheron’s Call was to Everquest back in the their time. It’s technically inferior in nearly every way, but has an almost indescribable charm that makes it a lot easier to call home.
Comments
I agree with almost everything you said, except for a few things.
I've heard a lot of people criticizing the character models. I think people are confusing artistic choice for low quality. I personally loved the character models for their uniqueness. The only other comment I really disagree with is the "technically inferior" comment, but I think that really comes down to semantics.
Overall, great, unbiased review. I especially loved your use of the word "organic" to describe the art style. I have never thought of that, but it's perfect.
______________
"We'll be saying a big hello to all intelligent lifeforms everywhere... and to everyone else out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together, guys!"
This was indeed a good read and very much recognizable even for someone who played the game much longer than the OP.
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Delanor
although i agree with some of the things the OP said. frankly, overall the game was an absolute bore, at least for me.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
not about an aversion to reading, i just found it boring, and not that engaging. for you that may of been different. more power to you.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Don't take this the wrong way, but in your other post you mentioned "no sense of direction", "fudge around on where you have to go", and "I had no sense of where I should go". Everything you needed for that sense of direction was in the quest text. It was there when you clicked "accept" on the quest and it was there in your quest log. You didn't read it.
Its going to be the bane of this game. People have been so conditioned to rely on map markers that they have lost the ability to extract anything meaningfull from quest text.
I said to not take this the wrong way because I'm not blaming you. I totaly understand where you're coming from. My wife had the same reaction. She thought it was boring as well.
Don't take this the wrong way, but in your other post you mentioned "no sense of direction", "fudge around on where you have to go", and "I had no sense of where I should go". Everything you needed for that sense of direction was in the quest text. It was there when you clicked "accept" on the quest and it was there in your quest log. You didn't read it.
Its going to be the bane of this game. People have been so conditioned to rely on map markers that they have lost the ability to extract anything meaningfull from quest text.
I said to not take this the wrong way because I'm not blaming you. I totaly understand where you're coming from. My wife had the same reaction. She thought it was boring as well.
In an age where there are mods designed specifically to bypass quest text so you can accept as many quests as possible without having to read anything, what do you expect /=.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
Don't take this the wrong way, but in your other post you mentioned "no sense of direction", "fudge around on where you have to go", and "I had no sense of where I should go". Everything you needed for that sense of direction was in the quest text. It was there when you clicked "accept" on the quest and it was there in your quest log. You didn't read it.
Its going to be the bane of this game. People have been so conditioned to rely on map markers that they have lost the ability to extract anything meaningfull from quest text.
I said to not take this the wrong way because I'm not blaming you. I totaly understand where you're coming from. My wife had the same reaction. She thought it was boring as well.
<FACEPALM>its not mainly about the questing, its the game as a whole. I did not like the game. has nothing to do about reading the quest. I read the quest text in full,the game is just awful as far as I am cocerned. once again Ill repeat for you, so it can sink into your brain, its not about the quest as a single part, its the game as a whole, that makes it boring, unfullfilling. God forbid i should go against what you feel. Seriously though, stop centering/focusing on one aspect of my post and blowing it out of proportion.
there is a term called "OPINION" in fact here is the defintion for it.
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
enough said.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
The character models are stupid looking. Period.
The combat is okay once you get used to the skill deck thingy.. but archery REALLY needs some work. Nothing about it feel right. It feels.. disconnected, maybe because the combat animations are so dismal.
As far as the questing.. Hmm. Could go either way here, they dont baby you but the game realies WAY too much on quests for XP. Mobs are worth WAY to little at the lower levels.
The other thing I hate is that even though you pic a warrior/rogue/wizard at lower levels you pretty much cant tell what you are. You rely on melee 90% of the time.
Makes you feel disconnected from your class in the beginning.. not a good idea if you want to appeal to a large playerbase, I HATE playing melee but I end up having to endure it for the countless hours its gonna take me to get to level 5?
Low level offensive spells are useless.. as are the haling spells. SO dont count on a healer below level 5 if you want to group.
Better is the enemy of good
The quest system is completely babying the players.They aren't quests that require problemsolving and exploration, they are merely tasks. Marked taskgivers and dots on the map that show you where to go next in the chain means you don't have to read any of the task text . The last page copies into a task book which spells out the objectives with painful detail.
With no significant death penalty, no real crafting, no valid PvP because there is no risk vs reward since nothing is gained or lost, and fed ex tasks, Spellborn is definitely another boring theme park game.
In your opinion of course. Ive enjoyed playing so far,im not sure if ill sub though. Not much else on the horizon unfortunately,except darkfall (lol) which will be populated by very tragic 30+ year old men and angry teenage loners by the looks of it,if it even comes out in any half playable form.
I had to read this part twice because I thought you must have been talking about a different game or at least generalizing about other MMOG's.
The death penalty is quite a bit more severe than any other MMOG that I have played in the last 6 years. PeP levels make a huge difference and they take hours to regain. Running 10% slower and attacking 5% slower is nothing to sneeze at. And it stacks essentially 5 times!
The crafting system is nothing special, but it does include collecting and making recipes. Personally I don't like crafting systems that require you to make useless widgets or grind just to get your skill up.
I don't think PvP will ever be one of TCoS's strong points, but there is risk and reward for PvP even on the PvE servers. The caves that contain resources needed for crafting are PvP enabled. You risk your PeP levels for crafting resources.
As for the quests, I heard the same thing about every MMOG ever made (or at least the ones that have quests). I have yet to see or even imagine a quest in a MMOG that can't be described in some base way as fed-ex or kill-it quests.
So what is a significant enough death penalty? How much risk and reward do you need to have to PvP? How would you design a quest that cannot be described as a kill-it or a fed-ex quest?
I had to read this part twice because I thought you must have been talking about a different game or at least generalizing about other MMOG's.
The death penalty is quite a bit more severe than any other MMOG that I have played in the last 6 years. PeP levels make a huge difference and they take hours to regain. Running 10% slower and attacking 5% slower is nothing to sneeze at. And it stacks essentially 5 times!
The crafting system is nothing special, but it does include collecting and making recipes. Personally I don't like crafting systems that require you to make useless widgets or grind just to get your skill up.
I don't think PvP will ever be one of TCoS's strong points, but there is risk and reward for PvP even on the PvE servers. The caves that contain resources needed for crafting are PvP enabled. You risk your PeP levels for crafting resources.
As for the quests, I heard the same thing about every MMOG ever made (or at least the ones that have quests). I have yet to see or even imagine a quest in a MMOG that can't be described in some base way as fed-ex or kill-it quests.
So what is a significant enough death penalty? How much risk and reward do you need to have to PvP? How would you design a quest that cannot be described as a kill-it or a fed-ex quest?
Losing PeP is not a big deal. I used to kill myself all the time to use the respawn shrines as miniports. A good death penalty is hefty experience loss or loss of items without restrictions to protect your valuables.
There is no crafting system in Spellborn. Sigils add minor stats to items or spells but nothing is crafted by the player, only by a NPC. True crafting is about making a name for yourself and developing skills and trade. There are no skills to be developed for crafting in Spellborn and trade is limited to Sigils so there is no player economy.
Classic EQ had real quests because questgivers were not marked and there was no minimap for the first 4 years I played. All you had was a compass and sense heading skill which needed to be raised so reading all NPC text was always important. Classic EQ used a key word prompt system for NPC conversation. Depending on your correspondence with a NPC you would receive different or unique information that other players may not. You never knew which NPC had a quest, or was just making pleasant conversation or had a clue about a previous quest. Originally classic EQ had no quest book to keep track of your progress. You had to keep track of the information yourself. That was the best and most real quest system I ever experienced. Here is a great example of a real quest from classic EQ:
This is the quest to obtain the Langseax or the Langseax of the Wolves. You need a very good faction to complete this quest (amiable at least).
Complete Version: Go to Renth McLanis in the tavern across from Mac's Kilts. Ask him "What dangerous matter?". He tells you of a crime. Agree to hunt the murderer. Renth then sends you to see Dok in Dok's Cigars. Find out all you can about the crime. He tells you to go see the leader of Clan McMannus. This is the fishing village located in West Karanas. Speak to the leader. Then speak to Ulrich McMannus and he tells you Frostbite can track prey if he has a piece of sweaty clothing. Return to Dok and ask him "Where is the sweaty shirt?". He then tells you he sold it to Tundra Jack. Find Tundra Jack on the tundra of Everfrost. He will tell you that Iceberg is using it for a collar and that you can distract Iceberg with his favorite meal, Lion Delight. Go back to Halas and speak to Teria O' Danos. Do the lion meat quest (you get coin and faction as well as the Lion Delight). Once you have Lion Delight, be sure to bury it lower in your container then your normal food to prevent it being eaten by you. Take the Lion Delight to Iceberg and receive the shirt (NO DROP, LORE ITEM) and faction adjustment. Now run to the village and give the shirt to Frostbite. (NOTE: Frostbite will wait for the murderer to spawn before he takes off. He walks pretty fast so I wouls strongly suggest that you have Spirit of Wolf on you. It also helps to have a party member along that can track because I lost sight of Frostbite many times and have had to start over. Also, Frostbite likes to fight things along the way. Help him out. Be very careful not to target Frostbite by accident!) Frostbite will lead you right to the criminal. The murderer will be either Paglan or Basil. Paglan is tougher to kill and probably in his low to mid 20's, Basil is around level 20. Kill whomever the dog leads you to, hope he drops a Barbarian head and then return to Halas with the head. Give the head to Renth for faction, coin, and of course, the Langseax (if you have Basil's head) or the Langseax of the Wolves (if it is Paglan's head). I am not sure what triggers which criminal you get or even if you can just kill both and get both heads, but it seems that you wil normally get Basil.
Here is a short version: Run to village, and receive the lion meat. Run to Halas, turn in meat to Teria and get Lion Delight, faction, exp. and coin. Run to Iceberg, give Lion Delight, receive shirt, faction, exp. Run to Frosbite, give shirt, gain exp. Kill the criminal. Return head for faction, coin, exp and Langseax. One thing to keep in mind is that your faction drops a good deal with the thieves guild with this quest, and the banker in Halas is a thief, making it possible that doint this quest can cause you to get kos if you try to use the bank. Also, you need a high faction with the Wolves of the North to finish the quest.
The faction changes are as follows: When you complete the lion meat quest: Shaman of Justice (+1), Wolves of the North (+1) Merchants of Halas (+1), Rogues of the White Rose (-1); When you trick Iceberg and get the Sweaty Shirt: Shaman of Justice (+1), Wolves of the North (+1), Merchants of Halas (+1), Steel Warriors (+1), Rogues of the White Rose (-1); When you kill Paglan or Basil: Rogues of the White Rose (-1); When you turn in Paglan's or Basil's head for your reward: Shaman of Justice (-1), Wolves of the North (+1), Merchants of Halas (-1), Rogues of the White Rose (+1); Faction adjustments overall: Shaman of Justice (+1), Wolves of the North (+3), Merchants of Halas (+1), Steel Warriors (+1), Rogues of the White Rose (-2).
As you can see there are many steps involved and faction played an important role. Nowadays there is no faction for ones deeds and actions in MMOGs which is sad, as faction makes the virtual world realistic and more challenging. Anyone who ever ran this quest understands the complexity involved. It's harder to imagine just reading the solution.
I agree completely that more MMOG's need faction systems. They really do make a big difference and add a nice mechanic that can be used for quests. But really, that quest you described is just a bunch of kill-it and fed-ex quests chained together. The biggest difference being that the quest NPC doesn't have a "!" over their head.
I used to play old Wizardry games where you had to type in everything you say to NPC's and hope you find the keywords. I appreciate a good puzzle, but that was just trial and error most of the time. I do not miss those days.
Its a slippery slope. Make it too hardcore and people print out reams of guides for every quest (like I did in EQ). Make it too easy and there is no challenge. The key is to find that middle ground where everything can be figured out without any outside help but without making it trivial. The system in TCoS is a good start.
Right now I can only hope that later zones have quests that are more complex than 'escort my cow home'. The quest system may not be as hardcore as you'd like but you have to admit that its far better than WoW, WAR, and AoC and has some great potential.
As for losing PeP not being a big deal, I have to dissagree. Losing 30% run speed and 15% attack speed is a very big deal. Its certainly not something I would intentionally do just to save a few minutes of running. In an online game where disconnects and server stability are a reality I can't agree with harsh death penalties. In a more controlled environment maybe, but not online games. I think we all have our own horror stories about unfortunate death penalties in EQ (binding in the wrong places, unsummonable corpses, etc).
Thanks for expanding on what you were talking about. Now I know why you're calling it a theme park. TCoS definitely resembles a theme park much moreso than EQ ever did. I appreciated EQ for its strengths and I appreciate TCoS for its strengths, but I see no reason to expect TCoS to have the same strengths that EQ did or vice versa. But I sure would like a faction system!
You claim real loss can come from item loss among other things. That is just the same as PeP loss because those items provide stats like PeP.
No signifigant crafting..no housing.....I can take this of my list....even before it's available in North America.
From the looks of your sig I can tell you that you won't be missed. You and your buddy, Joe the Plumber, can go craft up a house in another game.
I had to read this part twice because I thought you must have been talking about a different game or at least generalizing about other MMOG's.
The death penalty is quite a bit more severe than any other MMOG that I have played in the last 6 years. PeP levels make a huge difference and they take hours to regain. Running 10% slower and attacking 5% slower is nothing to sneeze at. And it stacks essentially 5 times!
The crafting system is nothing special, but it does include collecting and making recipes. Personally I don't like crafting systems that require you to make useless widgets or grind just to get your skill up.
I don't think PvP will ever be one of TCoS's strong points, but there is risk and reward for PvP even on the PvE servers. The caves that contain resources needed for crafting are PvP enabled. You risk your PeP levels for crafting resources.
As for the quests, I heard the same thing about every MMOG ever made (or at least the ones that have quests). I have yet to see or even imagine a quest in a MMOG that can't be described in some base way as fed-ex or kill-it quests.
So what is a significant enough death penalty? How much risk and reward do you need to have to PvP? How would you design a quest that cannot be described as a kill-it or a fed-ex quest?
Not that my opinion matters since I don't make games but I'll take a stab at answering how I'd design quests differently. First every game has meaningfull quests, the problem is they are flooded by BS quests to lengthen the leveling time. What I would do is make gaining XP a combination of things. 1) I would take a page from the older RPG's and make each quest a series that is part of a bigger story with a climax to the end of the series. 2) I'd keep it from feeling repetitive by not making quests the only way to level. 3) Allow XP through a variety of options taylored to the player type. For example, if you like PVE you'd go through the story and gain PVE XP that would open PVE type skills. If you like PVP and mainly participated in PVP action, ORVR for example you would gain PVP XP and PVP type skills. If you participated in both you would level in both and gain both types of skills. I'd then do the same for crafting and so on. Each type of game style would then have it's own "End Game" be it PVE, PVP, crafting, building homes, castles what ever. 4) The last thing I'd do differently is some XP would also be gained through time in game. The more you play the more XP you'ld gain. It only makes sense that the longer you do something the more experience you get in it.
The reason I'd do these things is A) customization. Since not everyone plays the same way the amount of XP that would open up new skills in different areas could make each player different, even if playing the same class since your skills would be taylored to what it is you're doing in-game and
replayability would be amazing since you could technically go through the game infinite number of times and your character would always be different.
My .02
Cool ideas. Its almost like the different ranking systems in WAR. I wish they would have handled it better instead of completely removing any incentive people had for PvE. TCoS does have a system for different types of XP, but its PeP and Fame and not divided by play style much at all.
I wouldn't mind if quests provided no XP at all and had only rewards such as items and gold.
As a board game designer I like coming up with all kinds of useless impracticle ideas. To expand on the different types of XP. How about different levels based on Bartles player types.
Acheivement Level - You get this for killing MOBs and high levels unlock combat abilities and gear upgrades
Explorer Level - You get this for discovering new places. It unlocks travel abilities like sprint, sneak, teleports, flight, etc.
Killer Level - You get it for killing players. Not sure what it would unlock or have for its rewards... Tracking skills? PvP-centric gear and rewards.
Social Level - You get this for interacting with players. Being in a group, adding guild members, trading, etc. It unlocks vanity rewards like clothing, emotes, etc. It could also increase the group XP multiplier enhancing XP gains from the other three types of XP.
There could be a limited number of thematic quests for each of these, but since quests don't reward XP then people wouldn't need to rely on them.
So if you're in a group and discover a new place to kill MOB's and players then you'll get all the bonuses stacked.
I played this for an evening a few months ago and the 2 things that really stood out for me was:
the cartoonish characters - which I liked and would encourage other companies to follow.
The unique quest writing - the were fun to read and had a sense of humor about them that made me smile. The quest writers did a great job and I read the quests fully not because I had to but that I wanted to. The quests set the atmosphere that made me know that I was playing a game and that it is supposed to be fun - this is something unique to MMORPGs.
Like I said it was a few months ago so maybe they changed...
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