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achellis
Member Posts: 542
after reading the attributes/skills section on the web site, i really started to think that this game sounds like Oblivion with bertt graphics and a tighter overall system.
Comments
I hope there will be nice long quests and story arcs to get involved in, so far it sounds like a decent game, just hopeing that 90% of the quests will not be ''tasks'' sending you repeatedly to do the mundane kill x amount of these, i like a good questing game where you dont notice the grind as it is put into the story-arc of a quest line and enables you to feel yer actually part of the adventure in the land.
playing eq2 and two worlds
-BARF-
QUESTS??? If quests/dungeon runs are what interest you in an MMORPG then go play WoW.
Your mind is so small. I hope this game will be Darkfall's competition so that Aventurine does not become the lazy, cocky and overconfident "Our fanbase will play this game even if we have stickfigures walking around" that they have become.
Don't get me wrong, I will play Darkfall or Mortal Online before I even TOUCH the mind numbing garbage that is WoW or Everquest. There just needs to be WAYYY more competition in the sandbox gaming industry.
Theme park games like WoW are like a roller coaster, that the devs build for you and once the ride is over, THAT'S IT, it's over, unless you want to ride the same thing again and again and again or they make another similar ride. Sandbox games are more like World Simulators. You are given a world and the possibilities are endless. There is no "purpose", you make the game what you want it to be, these are the types of games that interest me and I cannot fathom how anyone would not like this unless they have not played UO pre-trammel, which seems to be the case for 95% of mmorpg newbies here on mmorpg.com.
-BARF-
QUESTS??? If quests/dungeon runs are what interest you in an MMORPG then go play WoW.
Your mind is so small. I hope this game will be Darkfall's competition so that Aventurine does not become the lazy, cocky and overconfident "Our fanbase will play this game even if we have stickfigures walking around" that they have become.
Don't get me wrong, I will play Darkfall or Mortal Online before I even TOUCH the mind numbing garbage that is WoW or Everquest. There just needs to be WAYYY more competition in the sandbox gaming industry.
Theme park games like WoW are like a roller coaster, that the devs build for you and once the ride is over, THAT'S IT, it's over, unless you want to ride the same thing again and again and again or they make another similar ride. Sandbox games are more like World Simulators. You are given a world and the possibilities are endless. There is no "purpose", you make the game what you want it to be, these are the types of games that interest me and I cannot fathom how anyone would not like this unless they have not played UO pre-trammel, which seems to be the case for 95% of mmorpg newbies here on mmorpg.com.
you can have quests and still be a sandbox...stop being so elitist
I wouldn't get your hopes on that. From what I have read so far it is not going to be a "questing game" like the overwhelming majority of the other games being produced. MO is going to give a set, and a healthy set unlike the majority of other games in production now, of tools and allow the players to generate the content. Allowing players to hold territory and through player interaction building the story on the server. Yes, they have mentioned there will be some quests. It has also been mentioned that there may be a few quests that once a given player has completed it noone else will be able to do it. They have said such an addition would be borderline rare, though.
This game, from what I am reading, is moving away from players being led around from quest to quest. It is pushing more for a "you're in a world, we've provided the tools, now use your own imagination and go make a hero (or villain) name for yourself", be it through combat or through manufacturing of goods. It's certainly what I want in that respect as I personally get no satisfaction out of a bunch of npcs proclaiming me a person of note. I get more out of completing feats in which the other players then whisper "Oh, there goes so-in-so for X guild. He makes the best weapons around or did you hear about them assaulting an taking Y guilds area that we all thought was impossible?"
That's the feeling I get of the world (not game like all the rest) that these guys are creating. That feeling of what you do and who you become is up to you and not left to be bestowed by some questing system. I don't hate quests, mind you, and agree they should be there on some minute level as another option of something to do. I just don't think they should be the content crutch that they are in games today. The guys making this game have very deep roots in Ultima Online (pre trammel for those that distinction matters) and bringing back the best of that experience with a few additions looks to be their aim.
And they will get my box sale and subscription fee if they continue doing what they are doing now.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I wouldn't get your hopes on that. From what I have read so far it is not going to be a "questing game" like the overwhelming majority of the other games being produced. MO is going to give a set, and a healthy set unlike the majority of other games in production now, of tools and allow the players to generate the content. Allowing players to hold territory and through player interaction building the story on the server. Yes, they have mentioned there will be some quests. It has also been mentioned that there may be a few quests that once a given player has completed it noone else will be able to do it. They have said such an addition would be borderline rare, though.
This game, from what I am reading, is moving away from players being led around from quest to quest. It is pushing more for a "you're in a world, we've provided the tools, now use your own imagination and go make a hero (or villain) name for yourself", be it through combat or through manufacturing of goods. It's certainly what I want in that respect as I personally get no satisfaction out of a bunch of npcs proclaiming me a person of note. I get more out of completing feats in which the other players then whisper "Oh, there goes so-in-so for X guild. He makes the best weapons around or did you hear about them assaulting an taking Y guilds area that we all thought was impossible?"
That's the feeling I get of the world (not game like all the rest) that these guys are creating. That feeling of what you do and who you become is up to you and not left to be bestowed by some questing system. I don't hate quests, mind you, and agree they should be there on some minute level as another option of something to do. I just don't think they should be the content crutch that they are in games today. The guys making this game have very deep roots in Ultima Online (pre trammel for those that distinction matters) and bringing back the best of that experience with a few additions looks to be their aim.
And they will get my box sale and subscription fee if they continue doing what they are doing now.
You hit the nail right on the head there, this is pretty much exactly what they have described they are trying to achieve.
I wouldn't get your hopes on that. From what I have read so far it is not going to be a "questing game" like the overwhelming majority of the other games being produced. MO is going to give a set, and a healthy set unlike the majority of other games in production now, of tools and allow the players to generate the content. Allowing players to hold territory and through player interaction building the story on the server. Yes, they have mentioned there will be some quests. It has also been mentioned that there may be a few quests that once a given player has completed it noone else will be able to do it. They have said such an addition would be borderline rare, though.
This game, from what I am reading, is moving away from players being led around from quest to quest. It is pushing more for a "you're in a world, we've provided the tools, now use your own imagination and go make a hero (or villain) name for yourself", be it through combat or through manufacturing of goods. It's certainly what I want in that respect as I personally get no satisfaction out of a bunch of npcs proclaiming me a person of note. I get more out of completing feats in which the other players then whisper "Oh, there goes so-in-so for X guild. He makes the best weapons around or did you hear about them assaulting an taking Y guilds area that we all thought was impossible?"
That's the feeling I get of the world (not game like all the rest) that these guys are creating. That feeling of what you do and who you become is up to you and not left to be bestowed by some questing system. I don't hate quests, mind you, and agree they should be there on some minute level as another option of something to do. I just don't think they should be the content crutch that they are in games today. The guys making this game have very deep roots in Ultima Online (pre trammel for those that distinction matters) and bringing back the best of that experience with a few additions looks to be their aim.
And they will get my box sale and subscription fee if they continue doing what they are doing now.
That does sound brilliant if they can pull it off, one of the things I have been waiting for is the kind of "wilderness" that you cant find in MMO's nowadays, you go out farm something for a bit there is always a city right next to you or you just teleport around empty your bags and go back to farming, i wanna feel like I can travel the world and not just be in these quest hubs or cities like most MMOs feel right now, If i wanna farm something i wanna get my horse supplies and travel somewhere knowing that getting back to safe haven is not just a teleport away with 1h cooldown, and that I might be gone for a while so i better take what i need.
What of the better memories I have while playing an mmo is from The 4th Coming when going to another village was a litle challenge and it wasnt a journey you would take lightly, there would be monster on the road that could kill you if you werent strong enough, and the map well it was just a map not some TomTom V4, so you would msot of the time plan your trip and find a group or someone strong enough going that way to take you and it was brilliant.
Maybe this concept is lost in MMOs now but *fingers crossed* some company someday might bring it back.
It's really a problem with the common gamer. People want to get a game, play it for a breif time, beat it.. and then move on. If it is too chellenging, it frustrates a lot of people, then they quit. Remember the old nintendo games? Like Castlevania and MegaMan. And so many others, they were so difficult to beat, now companies are making games as easy as ever so they can make more money because more people will buy it. If it's not something you can pick up and master within a couple days, it's not fun for the majority.
I personally love the world sim MMO's.. unfortunately the last good one was Ultima Online. And for those who aren't aware, people are still playing it. You can go to Britain and still see people standing around on their nightmares and such. It's nowhere near as populated as before, but games like this have a very loyal harcore crowd. They still make money from it, I'm just sad to see that EA's graphics boost didn't do anything for it.
The problem with the above mentioned getting killed way out in the wilderness or having someone teleport away.. well, that is going to happen. Even in Ultima Online, you could recall if your magic was high enough. If you were a crafter and didn't have a way to defend yourself (even if it meant running away), then you were foolish for leaving the city. There is going to be danger is leaving the city watch. Expect the unexpeted, bring a friend.. or harvest in less traveled areas. Perhaps you have built a home by a mountain range.. stay close to your house. Harvest at night or early morning. There are ways around getting all of your precious metals stolen from your packhorse.
I hope someone makes a game like UO again, the rest of these MMO's are just getting boring. It's the same thing in a different skin.
You shouldn't care about the carebears, as MO is not a game developed to hit their shelf. It's a game dedicated to certain group of players, and devs already stated that.
--
/thread
Remember, your advantage lies in your opponent's weakness (J)
You shouldn't care about the carebears, as MO is not a game developed to hit their shelf. It's a game dedicated to certain group of players, and devs already stated that.
I've never had as much fun playing a MMO when I played Ultima Online. The unfortunate reality is that the carebears are what drives the industry, not the niche gamers. Sure, you'll get a Star Wars, LoTR, or StarTrek here and there for them, but the majority of MMO's are made to make as much money as possible.
There is a reason why the only real sandbox game since Ultima Online has been Shadowbane, which seems like forever ago. Vangaurd is close, but it's just not the same. Companies are just not willing to devote the time and resources to a style of gameplay that hasn't been done in a decade. The easy thing to do now is to make a title that can lure some of the WoW crowd away while attracting enough other players in order to make a profit. Which typically ends up looking a whole lot like WoW in the process... WAR...There is a reason Darkfall hasn't gotten any financial backing. No one is willing to take a big risk like that, especially with the cost of MMO's rising every day.
So, it's my hope that someday soon,while I still have the chance to play video games... someone will take that risk and deliver what I've been wanting for the last 10+ years.
You shouldn't care about the carebears, as MO is not a game developed to hit their shelf. It's a game dedicated to certain group of players, and devs already stated that.
I've never had as much fun playing a MMO when I played Ultima Online. The unfortunate reality is that the carebears are what drives the industry, not the niche gamers. Sure, you'll get a Star Wars, LoTR, or StarTrek here and there for them, but the majority of MMO's are made to make as much money as possible.
There is a reason why the only real sandbox game since Ultima Online has been Shadowbane, which seems like forever ago. Vangaurd is close, but it's just not the same. Companies are just not willing to devote the time and resources to a style of gameplay that hasn't been done in a decade. The easy thing to do now is to make a title that can lure some of the WoW crowd away while attracting enough other players in order to make a profit. Which typically ends up looking a whole lot like WoW in the process... WAR...There is a reason Darkfall hasn't gotten any financial backing. No one is willing to take a big risk like that, especially with the cost of MMO's rising every day.
So, it's my hope that someday soon,while I still have the chance to play video games... someone will take that risk and deliver what I've been wanting for the last 10+ years.
Mo is risking your idea and they working on it
Games played: Owerall ower 500+
MMORPG's played: SWG, ALL GW, WOW, L2, EVE, etc...
I already told you, that SV aims for niche market, for certain group of players. If they gain enough player base to not drown in the mmo river, it will be a success.
I don't even think about that, as I already see wtf is going on, on several mmorpg forums - interest in MO is quite big. If devs stated they wanna make tons of GP on their title, I wouldn't even care about MO, because it would be the same fail as WAR and AoC - with most of promises and mechanics changed.
Themeparked games are played mostly by teenagers. Old veterans play them (currently they don't even look at those quasi-mmorpgs), because there's no other choice. It's almost impossible to find a mofo community member below 20yrs, who isn't satisfied being part of the community.
And all those haters and whiners around here, are afraid to play sandbox games, so they show their ignorance.
Who cares anyway? Better leave them alone in their themeparked world. Maybe some day they'll grow up to play a game to have fun, not loosing time to only compete.
--
/thread
Remember, your advantage lies in your opponent's weakness (J)
'09-'10 is gonna be a good year for MMO's. Apparently this is the "sandbox era" for many games, including consoles. While this is something MMO players have been asking for for years, it seems its finally garnering some recognition. I will be playing DF and MO, and both look absolutely SWEET! IMO, MMO's are what gaming future is all about. Once companies can get a grasp on creating a real virtual world, well, there goes the neighborhood. Maybe not next year, or in 5 years, but can you even imagine in 10 years what's going to be created and played?
Just read some info on mortal. Looks intresteing, Not to designed to be a huge success, but thats a good thing. Now the question is what game will be better, MO or DF. MO seems to have less features promised than DF, and while they say there aren't classes the feat tree is going to make cookie cutting very ease and your choices are permanatent, where in DF I think you can change class just by grinding up some other skill. Again, not really a bad thing. Looks like I have another game to try out this coming year yay. I just hope both games have a combo system with melee and not just take the morrowind route with melee combat. If they do take the morrwind route everyone will be hybrid to aviod boredom
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
You may want to re-read that information about Primary and Secondary skills again. Yes, you don't lose points gained in any Secondary skill. To get to those skills you have to train the appropriate Primary skills, which can be trained and untrain as much as you like. So if you move to another Secondary skill and decide you don't like it it you can just retrain your Primary skills for the previous Secondary Skill you had (and liked) and you haven't lost any progress in that skill.
I haven't read anything about a combo system if you're talking like the Age of Conan Combo system.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I already told you, that SV aims for niche market, for certain group of players. If they gain enough player base to not drown in the mmo river, it will be a success.
I don't even think about that, as I already see wtf is going on, on several mmorpg forums - interest in MO is quite big. If devs stated they wanna make tons of GP on their title, I wouldn't even care about MO, because it would be the same fail as WAR and AoC - with most of promises and mechanics changed.
Themeparked games are played mostly by teenagers. Old veterans play them (currently they don't even look at those quasi-mmorpgs), because there's no other choice. It's almost impossible to find a mofo community member below 20yrs, who isn't satisfied being part of the community.
And all those haters and whiners around here, are afraid to play sandbox games, so they show their ignorance.
Who cares anyway? Better leave them alone in their themeparked world. Maybe some day they'll grow up to play a game to have fun, not loosing time to only compete.
Elitism and sweeping generalizations are always the best road to take.
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
You may want to re-read that information about Primary and Secondary skills again. Yes, you don't lose points gained in any Secondary skill. To get to those skills you have to train the appropriate Primary skills, which can be trained and untrain as much as you like. So if you move to another Secondary skill and decide you don't like it it you can just retrain your Primary skills for the previous Secondary Skill you had (and liked) and you haven't lost any progress in that skill.
I haven't read anything about a combo system if you're talking like the Age of Conan Combo system.
If the choices aren't permanent then whats the point of allowing people to have more than one character. When I read it, there seemed to be an "undo" option, but you couldn't undo everything and there was a limit. In DF there isn't a limit and I do believe each player's account can only have 1 character per server. Please give me a direct link if I'm wrong about this.
In the elder scrolls series other than a few directional attacks, charg-up strikes, and some knock back on certain weapos melee characters didn't have any skills. I want to be able to do multiable things on a melee character with out having to hybrid into a magic class. AoC combo system allows for this and I hope both DF and MO do something intresting with their melee combat system as well. If not then I'll just do what I've done in all the Elder Schools games, go hybrid.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
And MO has something interesting beside DA. It's the first mmorpg having active blocking system (I talk about alpha stage, to not let you to be confused).
--
/thread
Remember, your advantage lies in your opponent's weakness (J)
You may want to re-read that information about Primary and Secondary skills again. Yes, you don't lose points gained in any Secondary skill. To get to those skills you have to train the appropriate Primary skills, which can be trained and untrain as much as you like. So if you move to another Secondary skill and decide you don't like it it you can just retrain your Primary skills for the previous Secondary Skill you had (and liked) and you haven't lost any progress in that skill.
I haven't read anything about a combo system if you're talking like the Age of Conan Combo system.
If the choices aren't permanent then whats the point of allowing people to have more than one character. When I read it, there seemed to be an "undo" option, but you couldn't undo everything and there was a limit. In DF there isn't a limit and I do believe each player's account can only have 1 character per server. Please give me a direct link if I'm wrong about this.
In the elder scrolls series other than a few directional attacks, charg-up strikes, and some knock back on certain weapos melee characters didn't have any skills. I want to be able to do multiable things on a melee character with out having to hybrid into a magic class. AoC combo system allows for this and I hope both DF and MO do something intresting with their melee combat system as well. If not then I'll just do what I've done in all the Elder Schools games, go hybrid.
Well, the most immediate answer is time. Not having first hand tinkering experience with the system I would imagine it takes some time to work Primary and Secondary skills up. So if you want to have access to a certain skill build quickly, well that would be a reason for multiple characters. As for 1 character per server in DF, I'm not the best person to ask. I don't follow it that closely. I like the idea of 1 character per server but (experienced it in SWG pre nge) for accountability reasons but it doesn't look like MO is going that route. Not a game breaker for me, though.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
i like the idea of buiding up blocking as a skill... I played something similar in RF online where you had to build up base attributes (wich included blocking), and build up skill lvls at the same time... also taking damage from enemies would build up Stamina attributes to increase your over all stamina... tho I think RF only had a max of 100 points for Blocking, Stamina, MP, so you could forseeably max out ur attributes early before hitting 50...
can't wait to see how "auto" block works in-game
I'm also looking forward to DF but, on paper MO sounds more interesting than DF though .. thanks for all the good info.
And MO has something interesting beside DA. It's the first mmorpg having active blocking system (I talk about alpha stage, to not let you to be confused).
DFO has active blocking (and no semipassive blocking or w/e present in MO)
but the thing that puts mo over the top is its 10 hitboxes thing, that just blew me away. From certain (cough) sources we can kindof tell how DF's melee is going to be, really simple and shallow at the start (you can block, move, n attack) and then get complex as you unlock more skills. However MO melee will probably be more focused on non skill-buffered swinging, as in there's not 500 skills to use and thus you have to master the default melee that's given to you at the start of the game (which in Mo, seems very complex, compared to DF)
The thing that REALLY worries me about MO is its graphics, I wonder how the U3 engine will handle 200v200 battles, or if they are even possible in MO...
When I'm energetic I'm:
the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
When I'm at default I'm:
WHITE/BLUE
Lol according to this I'm bipolar :O
And MO has something interesting beside DA. It's the first mmorpg having active blocking system (I talk about alpha stage, to not let you to be confused).
DFO has active blocking (and no semipassive blocking or w/e present in MO)
but the thing that puts mo over the top is its 10 hitboxes thing, that just blew me away. From certain (cough) sources we can kindof tell how DF's melee is going to be, really simple and shallow at the start (you can block, move, n attack) and then get complex as you unlock more skills. However MO melee will probably be more focused on non skill-buffered swinging, as in there's not 500 skills to use and thus you have to master the default melee that's given to you at the start of the game (which in Mo, seems very complex, compared to DF)
The thing that REALLY worries me about MO is its graphics, I wonder how the U3 engine will handle 200v200 battles, or if they are even possible in MO...
i would imagine server framerate drop in such instances... reminds of RF when I would be in a 200+ man RvR there would be occassional gameplay pauses during the battles to minimize player desyncs, but it wasn't often and they handled it quite well... but that was years ago on a home built engine that isn't as graphic intensive as the U3 engine... and compared to todays game engines this could prove trickier to solve.
And MO has something interesting beside DA. It's the first mmorpg having active blocking system (I talk about alpha stage, to not let you to be confused).
DFO has active blocking (and no semipassive blocking or w/e present in MO)
but the thing that puts mo over the top is its 10 hitboxes thing, that just blew me away. From certain (cough) sources we can kindof tell how DF's melee is going to be, really simple and shallow at the start (you can block, move, n attack) and then get complex as you unlock more skills. However MO melee will probably be more focused on non skill-buffered swinging, as in there's not 500 skills to use and thus you have to master the default melee that's given to you at the start of the game (which in Mo, seems very complex, compared to DF)
The thing that REALLY worries me about MO is its graphics, I wonder how the U3 engine will handle 200v200 battles, or if they are even possible in MO...
i would imagine server framerate drop in such instances... reminds of RF when I would be in a 200+ man RvR there would be occassional gameplay pauses during the battles to minimize player desyncs, but it wasn't often and they handled it quite well... but that was years ago on a home built engine that isn't as graphic intensive as the U3 engine... and compared to todays game engines this could prove trickier to solve.
Please keep in mind, though, that having "massive battle" of that nature isn't in the MO design plan. I know hearing that term over and over from Funcom kind of leaves a lingering of an expectation from a PvP game now, but that is not the intent as communicated to this point by Star Vault. I would say 10 vs 10 or maybe 15 or 20 vs a like number may be a more realistic expectation. They are taking alot of their inspiration from Ultima Online and not Dark Age of Camelot, WAR or Age of Conan.
Now, that isn't to say that once players get in game they won't try to have fights of a larger scale. Just note the game, again at this moment, isn't being designed with that in mind.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I'd engage in polemics about those large battles, as I doubt 10 peeps will be enough to take over whole city.
Of course you cannot forget about auditorium.
If shadowbane was able to manage LARGE battles, novaday mmorpgs can do it too, no matter what excuses would be invented by devs.
--
/thread
Remember, your advantage lies in your opponent's weakness (J)
I'd engage in polemics about those large battles, as I doubt 10 peeps will be enough to take over whole city.
Of course you cannot forget about auditorium.
If shadowbane was able to manage LARGE battles, novaday mmorpgs can do it too, no matter what excuses would be invented by devs.
The UT3 engine can handle it in a mini game system, but when you have high graphics you either have to sacrafice performance to have about 100 people on the same field fighting each other or limit the number of people particpating in it.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
I'd engage in polemics about those large battles, as I doubt 10 peeps will be enough to take over whole city.
Of course you cannot forget about auditorium.
If shadowbane was able to manage LARGE battles, novaday mmorpgs can do it too, no matter what excuses would be invented by devs.
I'd rather not get into a theological discussion, but if we must...
No, but seriously, I do agree with you to a degree. If one sits down and actually thinks about it, non of us on the outside knows exactly how Star Vault is tweaking the engine and adjusting features of the engine to provide for better performance with more and more players on screen. Now, I just won't agree (because I am stubborn sometimes and will have to see it first) that a 500 vs 500 battle will happen (frankly because getting that many people together online is a logistical nightmare) or even 200 vs 200. I could see 200 total players battling it out for a city (100 vs 100, 150 vs 50, 125 vs 75, etc) for sure. Again, this is mostly because of the reality of, well, real life and coordinating to get that many people a) online and b) in the same place.
This by no means is not to say that I wouldn't want to see 500 vs 500 battles. I just think at this point it is best to meter expectations so that if battles on such a scale become a reality it will be a most pleasant surprise.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez