Well it's your project, you know...i do like the variety you have going on with the races but if you intend to implement them all with a fairly deep backstory they you're going have a lot of writing on your hands to be sure...and if you intend to place them all within the confines of the games story...whew...lots of work. The only thing i can think of that would be a fresh change in MMO is making a sort of NPC guild, sort of like in Morrowind or Oblivion....a fighter working for a npc fighters guild, he/she could rest there instead of buying a house, get a dicount on arms and armor from npc vendors and so on. This wouldn't be to relpace a PC guild, but to both allow new players to call home and have those players that don't like to join PC guilds as well The problem is that it sounds really good in thought, but i have no idea how it would come about in a MMO.
I think having npc guilds is a great idea! But we will definetly still have pc guilds too. I think it would also be fun to see what other people want too.
This forum post is to inspire me for a first person MMORPG that I am creating on my free time.
[...]
Originally posted by Whitellama Also later I am looking into learning to create a website so I can post about this there but I need a name first.
Does not compute. If you can program a MMO, you can easily design a website (which is much easier of the two, even if reinventing the wheel).
So what's the real reason for posting? Any good material would be copyrighted, as that's IP.
Don't mean to rain on your parade, but designing a game is a tough thing to do. If just making a mod takes a team of 12+ designers, a MMO from the ground up would take at least dozens, divided into divisions.
Does not compute. If you can program a MMO, you can easily design a website (which is much easier of the two, even if reinventing the wheel).
So what's the real reason for posting? Any good material would be copyrighted, as that's IP.
Don't mean to rain on your parade, but designing a game is a tough thing to do. If just making a mod takes a team of 12+ designers, a MMO from the ground up would take at least dozens, divided into divisions.
Actually, creating a good webbpage is hard, just check SOE crappy pages. A basic one is aesy and any moron could do it, if you don't like .html use Dreamweaver instead.
Making a good page that looks and feels nice demands that you are good on getting info out, can pick colours that look good together and generally have a good sense of style, the net are filled with boring crap pages which no one sane would look on.
Personally I liked Mortal onlines page, simple but good looking and effective. Vanguards is a good example of the opposite.
Come on Loki, even I can put up websites and design vB forums (which I need to get back into if I can't find a MMO that's interesting). Not much to it, especially now -- unlike the days when sites were hand coded in notepad (Dreamweaver???), let alone pages had to be less than 20kb or you'd lose most of your visitors.
Programming a game, and putting up even a medium sized website doesn't compare. A website with all the bells and whistles ( server side optimizations -- fat database and frontends to help load balance a high traffic site; pulling out Apache2 and using a BETTER web server; and even removing joins out of the database to speed searches; to SEO it to high heaven, is easier).
Debugging 2000 lines of XML or XHTML (typical size of a multimedia heavy page), isn't the same as debugging 2000 lines of Python scripts, even.
Added: Yep, you're right, SoE's E2Player's front page is a joke, look at this...
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
This forum post is to inspire me for a first person MMORPG that I am creating on my free time.
[...]
Originally posted by Whitellama
Also later I am looking into learning to create a website so I can post about this there but I need a name first.
Does not compute. If you can program a MMO, you can easily design a website (which is much easier of the two, even if reinventing the wheel).
So what's the real reason for posting? Any good material would be copyrighted, as that's IP.
Don't mean to rain on your parade, but designing a game is a tough thing to do. If just making a mod takes a team of 12+ designers, a MMO from the ground up would take at least dozens, divided into divisions.
I understand what you mean the fact that it is only me and my brother but this isn't anything important. When I stated 'Also later I am looking into learning to create a website so I can post about this there but I need a name first' I basically meant I need to ask my friend (Eric) about it and just pay for the registeration fee. Of course anyone can have a bad website but I am not going to make one until I actuall need one. Also since I am a 11 year old I don't care how many people I have to have. It's not like I desperately am trying to make money off this. I am learning how Maya, and C++ scripting works as I go and I have a long time to work on it. I just want to get a good understanding and have a head start when I actually need to make something. And yes my career will be designing MMORPGs with my buddies. And if you don't mind I don't want to hear anything else on how I'm going to fail. (Even though I probably will).
A wise person speaks because he has something to say, a fool speaks because he has to say something.
Okay everyone lets please drop the subject of programing and designing forums and websites because in my introduction I said I want things to stay on topic and that is for a different thread and another day. Also please don't tell me I'm gonna fail because that's why I made the poll so tell me there because if I do then let me learn on my own. (I'm just saying that to get you not to bug me about it but I really think I actually will suceed!) XD Oops did I just type that on the screen? (Instead of: "Oops did I just say that out loud?")
A wise person speaks because he has something to say, a fool speaks because he has to say something.
I say go for it bro, what do you have to lose? time and some developer saying no...which just puts you in the same place you're at now..no biggie.
If a grammar school dropout could invent earmuffs at 15, well...anything's possible
The name of your game should reflect some aspect of it, if you don't think it does you may want to consider changing it.
When I'm working on a project i think the best way is to go back to basics, play EQ or AO...what do you like about it? what do you dislike about it? if this game was yours what would you change about it? and go from there...now I'm not advocating stealing material but ideas can spring up by reviewing what has come before.
IMHO Istaria would be your best bet, so far with what material you've given us it seems that's the way your headed...and Istaria does have quite a few of the characters you wish to incorporate into your own game, so it may be best to see how they built them....strengths, weaknesses and so on before you put yours down so as to make sure yours isn't a unintentional carbon-copy.
The bread and butter of any RPG, pen-and-paper or otherwise is story....a RPG player should be intrigued from the word 'go'....it should be gripping to the very end and make this player want to play it again and again, a bland story can ruin even the best of games.
In this case i do not recommend you research MMO's....instead i would recommend the Gold Box series of D&D games(which requires DOSBOX), Planescape:Torment, Icewind Dale, Baldurs Gate, Arcanum...failing that i would recommend that you read up on as much D&D source material you can find on the web.
I say go for it bro, what do you have to lose? time and some developer saying no...which just puts you in the same place you're at now..no biggie. If a grammar school dropout could invent earmuffs at 15, well...anything's possible The name of your game should reflect some aspect of it, if you don't think it does you may want to consider changing it. When I'm working on a project i think the best way is to go back to basics, play EQ or AO...what do you like about it? what do you dislike about it? if this game was yours what would you change about it? and go from there...now I'm not advocating stealing material but ideas can spring up by reviewing what has come before. IMHO Istaria would be your best bet, so far with what material you've given us it seems that's the way your headed...and Istaria does have quite a few of the characters you wish to incorporate into your own game, so it may be best to see how they built them....strengths, weaknesses and so on before you put yours down so as to make sure yours isn't a unintentional carbon-copy. The bread and butter of any RPG, pen-and-paper or otherwise is story....a RPG player should be intrigued from the word 'go'....it should be gripping to the very end and make this player want to play it again and again, a bland story can ruin even the best of games. In this case i do not recommend you research MMO's....instead i would recommend the Gold Box series of D&D games(which requires DOSBOX), Planescape:Torment, Icewind Dale, Baldurs Gate, Arcanum...failing that i would recommend that you read up on as much D&D source material you can find on the web.
Hi I'm glad you believe I will suceed (or at least not fail). But I find your second paragraph a bit strange but I guess anything is possible.
Well one of the reasons I am created this forum is for ideas, (duh), but when I can start working on it I will read through everything again. The reason I am spending most of my computer time on the forums is because I cannot work on the game right now. I can't study up on C++ until I make a trip to the library but I don't know about you, but where I live it has been snowing for the last 9 days! I seriously need to test the scripts with a compiler and I can't download it on this computer (I have two houses) because this computer sucks. And once again I can't travel because of the snow. I found a tutorial thing online called lynda.com and I am going to take a lesson on how to do everything with Maya. Maya is software that lets you create and animate graphics even though it is only rarely used for MMORPGs.
That is probably a very good idea because posted earlier in this thread someone mention Istaria (it could've been you) and I checked out the website but maybe I should try the free trial so I don't basically do the same thing. But I believe this game will be much nicer. This will take me probably a lot longer then other developers because it's only my brother and I.
Well I know what you're talking about with a bland story but I find this amazing mario is the most famous game ever and the same stupid story line is Bowser kidnaps Princess Peach and Mario has to save her. Even though I do like the game. If you are wondering the title "Forge of Years" is not chosen but it's so far one of my only ideas. The story line will be something where this forge can craft and mend life in the future and it has been reactivated then all of the men and the woman are minions to the forge. All but the priests have been transformed and the priests of every land are summoning soldiers to fight. That would be you. The story line is rusty but that's because I've put little thought into it right now and I am not stuck on that name yet.
Maybe reseaching is a good idea. I think I might put some time into that later. Thank you for your support. I have noticed that you have been spending a lot of time in this forum.
A wise person speaks because he has something to say, a fool speaks because he has to say something.
Originally posted by Whitellama I understand what you mean the fact that it is only me and my brother but this isn't anything important. When I stated 'Also later I am looking into learning to create a website so I can post about this there but I need a name first' I basically meant I need to ask my friend (Eric) about it and just pay for the registeration fee. Of course anyone can have a bad website but I am not going to make one until I actuall need one. Also since I am a 11 year old I don't care how many people I have to have. It's not like I desperately am trying to make money off this. I am learning how Maya, and C++ scripting works as I go and I have a long time to work on it. I just want to get a good understanding and have a head start when I actually need to make something. And yes my career will be designing MMORPGs with my buddies. And if you don't mind I don't want to hear anything else on how I'm going to fail. (Even though I probably will).
You need to hear it, as anyone else very young and thinking this is but a mod project with friends.
Unless your buddies are programming professionals (to ensure quality control and work flow), and the graphic lead at least holds a BFA specializing in illustration and 3D animation (who will be your most expensive employee, more so than a lead programmer), this is a pipe dream. Unlike even modding, a MMO requires script writers for quests and dialogue; a barn full of graphic artists and animators (plus the time to fill out a whole new world with concept art -- a very tedious and long thing to do, even for the pros); and programmers divided into divisions who are paid and not working in the open source manner -- as the project would take to 2050 to finish.
And let's not even go on about licensing requirements and their upfront costs for your team -- and acquiring the funds.
If it only could be done so easily, there would be hundreds of thousands of MMOs online right now, and done by teams of modders who are fans of a franchise or idea.
The reason I am spending most of my computer time on the forums is because I cannot work on the game right now. I can't study up on C++ until I make a trip to the library but I don't know about you, but where I live it has been snowing for the last 9 days!
How old are you, seriously?
You don't goto the library to "learn" C++. C++ takes on average 20 years to master, and not something you learn from reading books, but actual practice -- and learning most while on the job.
You also don't just jump into C++, but start it after learning other languages to get the gist of OOP programming and schemetics (which is why Python is widely recommended to learn first, as it's a language that's easier to read).
For gaming, you also will have to learn higher maths (especially if you want to specialize in the graphics area -- particularly linear algebra -- as working with vectors is a mind numbing experience, even if your favorite past time is logic puzzles).
You need to know the realities so you won't get burned out from the start. If you want to learn how to make a MMO, the best way is to learn how to design a MUD, as it eliminated the need to get bogged down with graphics production -- and will teach you the value of game play and mechanics (let alone server/client optimizations). Plus, you can do it while working with Python.
From there, with some years of programming experience and learning the meat and potatoes, can graduate to making a MMO.
Come on Loki, even I can put up websites and design vB forums (which I need to get back into if I can't find a MMO that's interesting). Not much to it, especially now -- unlike the days when sites were hand coded in notepad (Dreamweaver???), let alone pages had to be less than 20kb or you'd lose most of your visitors. Programming a game, and putting up even a medium sized website doesn't compare. A website with all the bells and whistles ( server side optimizations -- fat database and frontends to help load balance a high traffic site; pulling out Apache2 and using a BETTER web server; and even removing joins out of the database to speed searches; to SEO it to high heaven, is easier). Debugging 2000 lines of XML or XHTML (typical size of a multimedia heavy page), isn't the same as debugging 2000 lines of Python scripts, even. Added: Yep, you're right, SoE's E2Player's front page is a joke, look at this... <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">; Christ, not even XHTML 1.0 Transitional, even the dtd is wrong. Hope W3C uses their website as a case of what NOT to do in web design.
Creating a webbpage is easy? no a good webbpage is art. I made some too, can't say that they are particulary good but a lot better than SOE and many other crappy around.
It is not the technical stuff that is hard, it is the art part because a real webbpage is art.
And yes handcoding is better but Dreamweaver is actually not that bad. A webbpage in dreamweaver will never get as good as a competently made handcoded one but let's be honest, SOE all webbpages code have been done a lotter better by an art student in dreamweaver than how they are now.
They are ugly, slow and bad coded, finding anything useful is like walking in a maze.
Yeah any schmuck could learn .html in a weeks self studies but that is far from enough to create a good webbpage.
Anyways, the OP is 11 years old and it seems like he have a bit to go before he can really start on the game. But OP, with a lot of work you can make a good game still. You must however start by learning programming good and 3D modelling. A game need 3 things: Good ideas, good programming and good graphics. If you plan to do it by yourself than you have to learn the last 2 and it is hard work.
Off course we seen game done by really young people before but games go more and more proffesional, it is almost impossible to make a MMO by yourself today, because they are massive games. However you can make a demo to take to a publisher (unless you are rich and plan to hire in people for your own money).
Thanks for the tip on his age, explains things -- And Whitellama, learn Python. It's not a "dumbed down" language and even AAA games today still use it along with C++ (Oblivion used it; as well as BF2142, as sometimes it's better than C++. In programming you use the best language for the job, which means you'll be learning many languages, for specific tasks). No better time to learn it as it's getting a revamp.
But as for webpages being art, that kind of died when Flash came along.
actually I think i'll try python if it's good enough for oblivion its good enough or us. this game is going to be first person and we're trying to find a languge that will work with that. At 11 yeas old it isn't easy making a game though its just me and whitellama. We got some money to start it but our main goal is to avoid failing.
Most people have absolutly great ideas for theese games but never make it happen and deveop the game. I like to refer to that as EPIC FAILURE. Which is really what we are trying to avoid and I think that were doing fine. thanks you for telling me about python because honestly I was looking for a different languge besides c++...
Ah, yes i did prattle on a bit in my last post, sorry.
Long story short: Research other games.
IMHO if developers looked backwards every once in awhile we wouldn't get as much trash as we do now, Look at the game "Vampire Rain"....i seriously doubt any of them said "We want to make this game like Vampire The Masquerade:Bloodlines", which might explain why it...well...sucked.
I support ideas, while you may not be able to get into advanced programming right now there is still so much you can do, writing, storyboards, game research, concept art....you can still make this game come alive without programming a single line.
Also, you might have the workings of a decent PnP game...or both, who knows.
actually I think i'll try python if it's good enough for oblivion its good enough or us. this game is going to be first person and we're trying to find a languge that will work with that. At 11 yeas old it isn't easy making a game though its just me and whitellama. We got some money to start it but our main goal is to avoid failing. Most people have absolutly great ideas for theese games but never make it happen and deveop the game. I like to refer to that as EPIC FAILURE. Which is really what we are trying to avoid and I think that were doing fine. thanks you for telling me about python because honestly I was looking for a different languge besides c++...
Starting out from scratch you'll need to avoid the pitfalls. The biggest one will be the graphics side (it's really painful to produce it, from the concept to it's application). Thus, learn Python and get a couple of books on how to make a MUD (which is very similiar to MMOs, just without the graphics). You'll become better all around by taking that route, as you'll concentrate on the bare bones, the skeleton if you will, of a game.
When I play the newer games, I spend more time looking at the set design than actually playing the game (like with FPS games, spending time on empty servers literally on my knees looking at joins, and how tricky joins were accomplished without bleeds; learning the various ways ambient lighting is applied, and how it creates a mood for a scene; to even the mundane, like how that plant was placed on a table, and how it gives a room a lived in feel or not). This is also how you can learn from the pros without meeting them (or going to college or workshops to learn the outrageously expensive software to learn how to create it), and will give you invaluable tips -- and some "ah..." moments.
Even in MUDs you will have to learn about set design -- with the goal that the environment is a living breathing ecosystem for the exterior; and livable places for the interiors. So in other words, your perception skills will be taxed. It's funny in a way, that in the zest to make the most realistic environment, you'll be experimenting with a ton of mundane things -- like taking hundreds of shots of concrete paving, to match the texture to the lighting (or to find one to use as an example when you create it by hand). When I was making sliding doors with the F.E.A.R. SDK (which has darn good editors), I went to the grocery store to not only look at the bronzed frames, but to copy the stickers on the doors -- and to notice the wear on them (and it's funny how folks look at you while doing it!). The eye can detect flaws on sight, and the goal -- eventually when you get into the graphics side -- is to fool them to believe the environment is real, though it's but pixels.
But I digress -- learn from the ground up, and don't take short cuts <-- you'll be frustrated to no end.
Hi everyone! I'd first like to state that I don't want anyone randomly posting in this forum I want it to stay on topic so please respect that. This forum post is to inspire me for a first person MMORPG that I am creating on my free time. I want you to give me any large, or small idea no matter how long you have to type. I do also enjoy proper grammer (just because it's easy to read and It looks profesional) and it makes you seem smarter then everyone else that types like a noob. Try to be specific because saying things like "it can't be repetitive" and giving a few examples is helpful but still I like actual ideas. You may also suggest a name for the game because that is one thing I have not thought of. Also later I am looking into learning to create a website so I can post about this there but I need a name first. You may see me posting more here too so pay attention.
Im typing like a noob but im smart im not a proper grammer freak but im still very proffesional.
Arrogance i dont realy like that:(
Darkfall comming soon so no need for a newbee game.
Now what was your question again?
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Okay everyone I was starting to get frustrated from listening to UNATCOII so I blocked him. Sorry I don't like to block people but he has been bugging me since post #28. I know that with good effort this game will come out nice and when I actually get a job (after college) I will recruite a team and everything so all it is now is a very early head start. It's like going to school for your adult career so I don't want to hear anything about how you don't think I will suceed because truely at my age now it doesn't matter!
A wise person speaks because he has something to say, a fool speaks because he has to say something.
Come on Loki, even I can put up websites and design vB forums (which I need to get back into if I can't find a MMO that's interesting). Not much to it, especially now -- unlike the days when sites were hand coded in notepad (Dreamweaver???), let alone pages had to be less than 20kb or you'd lose most of your visitors. Programming a game, and putting up even a medium sized website doesn't compare. A website with all the bells and whistles ( server side optimizations -- fat database and frontends to help load balance a high traffic site; pulling out Apache2 and using a BETTER web server; and even removing joins out of the database to speed searches; to SEO it to high heaven, is easier). Debugging 2000 lines of XML or XHTML (typical size of a multimedia heavy page), isn't the same as debugging 2000 lines of Python scripts, even. Added: Yep, you're right, SoE's E2Player's front page is a joke, look at this... <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">; Christ, not even XHTML 1.0 Transitional, even the dtd is wrong. Hope W3C uses their website as a case of what NOT to do in web design.
Creating a webbpage is easy? no a good webbpage is art. I made some too, can't say that they are particulary good but a lot better than SOE and many other crappy around.
It is not the technical stuff that is hard, it is the art part because a real webbpage is art.
And yes handcoding is better but Dreamweaver is actually not that bad. A webbpage in dreamweaver will never get as good as a competently made handcoded one but let's be honest, SOE all webbpages code have been done a lotter better by an art student in dreamweaver than how they are now.
They are ugly, slow and bad coded, finding anything useful is like walking in a maze.
Yeah any schmuck could learn .html in a weeks self studies but that is far from enough to create a good webbpage.
Anyways, the OP is 11 years old and it seems like he have a bit to go before he can really start on the game. But OP, with a lot of work you can make a good game still. You must however start by learning programming good and 3D modelling. A game need 3 things: Good ideas, good programming and good graphics. If you plan to do it by yourself than you have to learn the last 2 and it is hard work.
Off course we seen game done by really young people before but games go more and more proffesional, it is almost impossible to make a MMO by yourself today, because they are massive games. However you can make a demo to take to a publisher (unless you are rich and plan to hire in people for your own money).
It seems weird when you say "the OP" because I read every single post and reply to almost all of them that don't tick me off or that my brother hasn't already replied to. I currently actualy am learning programing and 3d modeling because I am going to get python for dummies or something on the internet and I will use it with my other computer at my other house. With the 3d modeling I am learning Maya (I know it's a bit unusual) and I am learning with a website that gives you tutorials, lessons, examples, and walks you through it. So I think I will get some good experience.
I think that until I need money I will work on it by myself but me and my brother plan on making our own company. But I'm not sure how we'll find the cash.
A wise person speaks because he has something to say, a fool speaks because he has to say something.
This forum post is to inspire me for a first person MMORPG that I am creating on my free time.
[...]
Originally posted by Whitellama
Also later I am looking into learning to create a website so I can post about this there but I need a name first.
Does not compute. If you can program a MMO, you can easily design a website (which is much easier of the two, even if reinventing the wheel).
So what's the real reason for posting? Any good material would be copyrighted, as that's IP.
Don't mean to rain on your parade, but designing a game is a tough thing to do. If just making a mod takes a team of 12+ designers, a MMO from the ground up would take at least dozens, divided into divisions.
Actually, if you've got the creativity and skill, you can make a browser-based game alone. All you have to do is make everything in FLASH and import it.
Comments
Maxila
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
You cook a man a meal he eats for a day;
you teach a man to cook he eats for life.
[...]
Does not compute. If you can program a MMO, you can easily design a website (which is much easier of the two, even if reinventing the wheel).
So what's the real reason for posting? Any good material would be copyrighted, as that's IP.
Don't mean to rain on your parade, but designing a game is a tough thing to do. If just making a mod takes a team of 12+ designers, a MMO from the ground up would take at least dozens, divided into divisions.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
So what's the real reason for posting? Any good material would be copyrighted, as that's IP.
Don't mean to rain on your parade, but designing a game is a tough thing to do. If just making a mod takes a team of 12+ designers, a MMO from the ground up would take at least dozens, divided into divisions.
Actually, creating a good webbpage is hard, just check SOE crappy pages. A basic one is aesy and any moron could do it, if you don't like .html use Dreamweaver instead.
Making a good page that looks and feels nice demands that you are good on getting info out, can pick colours that look good together and generally have a good sense of style, the net are filled with boring crap pages which no one sane would look on.
Personally I liked Mortal onlines page, simple but good looking and effective. Vanguards is a good example of the opposite.
Come on Loki, even I can put up websites and design vB forums (which I need to get back into if I can't find a MMO that's interesting). Not much to it, especially now -- unlike the days when sites were hand coded in notepad (Dreamweaver???), let alone pages had to be less than 20kb or you'd lose most of your visitors.
Programming a game, and putting up even a medium sized website doesn't compare. A website with all the bells and whistles ( server side optimizations -- fat database and frontends to help load balance a high traffic site; pulling out Apache2 and using a BETTER web server; and even removing joins out of the database to speed searches; to SEO it to high heaven, is easier).
Debugging 2000 lines of XML or XHTML (typical size of a multimedia heavy page), isn't the same as debugging 2000 lines of Python scripts, even.
Added: Yep, you're right, SoE's E2Player's front page is a joke, look at this...
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">;
Christ, not even XHTML 1.0 Transitional, even the dtd is wrong.
Hope W3C uses their website as a case of what NOT to do in web design.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
[...]
Does not compute. If you can program a MMO, you can easily design a website (which is much easier of the two, even if reinventing the wheel).
So what's the real reason for posting? Any good material would be copyrighted, as that's IP.
Don't mean to rain on your parade, but designing a game is a tough thing to do. If just making a mod takes a team of 12+ designers, a MMO from the ground up would take at least dozens, divided into divisions.
I understand what you mean the fact that it is only me and my brother but this isn't anything important. When I stated 'Also later I am looking into learning to create a website so I can post about this there but I need a name first' I basically meant I need to ask my friend (Eric) about it and just pay for the registeration fee. Of course anyone can have a bad website but I am not going to make one until I actuall need one. Also since I am a 11 year old I don't care how many people I have to have. It's not like I desperately am trying to make money off this. I am learning how Maya, and C++ scripting works as I go and I have a long time to work on it. I just want to get a good understanding and have a head start when I actually need to make something. And yes my career will be designing MMORPGs with my buddies. And if you don't mind I don't want to hear anything else on how I'm going to fail. (Even though I probably will).
A wise person speaks because he has something to say,
a fool speaks because he has to say something.
Whitellama
Okay everyone lets please drop the subject of programing and designing forums and websites because in my introduction I said I want things to stay on topic and that is for a different thread and another day. Also please don't tell me I'm gonna fail because that's why I made the poll so tell me there because if I do then let me learn on my own. (I'm just saying that to get you not to bug me about it but I really think I actually will suceed!) XD Oops did I just type that on the screen? (Instead of: "Oops did I just say that out loud?")
A wise person speaks because he has something to say,
a fool speaks because he has to say something.
Whitellama
I say go for it bro, what do you have to lose? time and some developer saying no...which just puts you in the same place you're at now..no biggie.
If a grammar school dropout could invent earmuffs at 15, well...anything's possible
The name of your game should reflect some aspect of it, if you don't think it does you may want to consider changing it.
When I'm working on a project i think the best way is to go back to basics, play EQ or AO...what do you like about it? what do you dislike about it? if this game was yours what would you change about it? and go from there...now I'm not advocating stealing material but ideas can spring up by reviewing what has come before.
IMHO Istaria would be your best bet, so far with what material you've given us it seems that's the way your headed...and Istaria does have quite a few of the characters you wish to incorporate into your own game, so it may be best to see how they built them....strengths, weaknesses and so on before you put yours down so as to make sure yours isn't a unintentional carbon-copy.
The bread and butter of any RPG, pen-and-paper or otherwise is story....a RPG player should be intrigued from the word 'go'....it should be gripping to the very end and make this player want to play it again and again, a bland story can ruin even the best of games.
In this case i do not recommend you research MMO's....instead i would recommend the Gold Box series of D&D games(which requires DOSBOX), Planescape:Torment, Icewind Dale, Baldurs Gate, Arcanum...failing that i would recommend that you read up on as much D&D source material you can find on the web.
Hi I'm glad you believe I will suceed (or at least not fail). But I find your second paragraph a bit strange but I guess anything is possible.
Well one of the reasons I am created this forum is for ideas, (duh), but when I can start working on it I will read through everything again. The reason I am spending most of my computer time on the forums is because I cannot work on the game right now. I can't study up on C++ until I make a trip to the library but I don't know about you, but where I live it has been snowing for the last 9 days! I seriously need to test the scripts with a compiler and I can't download it on this computer (I have two houses) because this computer sucks. And once again I can't travel because of the snow. I found a tutorial thing online called lynda.com and I am going to take a lesson on how to do everything with Maya. Maya is software that lets you create and animate graphics even though it is only rarely used for MMORPGs.
That is probably a very good idea because posted earlier in this thread someone mention Istaria (it could've been you) and I checked out the website but maybe I should try the free trial so I don't basically do the same thing. But I believe this game will be much nicer. This will take me probably a lot longer then other developers because it's only my brother and I.
Well I know what you're talking about with a bland story but I find this amazing mario is the most famous game ever and the same stupid story line is Bowser kidnaps Princess Peach and Mario has to save her. Even though I do like the game. If you are wondering the title "Forge of Years" is not chosen but it's so far one of my only ideas. The story line will be something where this forge can craft and mend life in the future and it has been reactivated then all of the men and the woman are minions to the forge. All but the priests have been transformed and the priests of every land are summoning soldiers to fight. That would be you. The story line is rusty but that's because I've put little thought into it right now and I am not stuck on that name yet.
Maybe reseaching is a good idea. I think I might put some time into that later. Thank you for your support. I have noticed that you have been spending a lot of time in this forum.
A wise person speaks because he has something to say,
a fool speaks because he has to say something.
Whitellama
You need to hear it, as anyone else very young and thinking this is but a mod project with friends.
Unless your buddies are programming professionals (to ensure quality control and work flow), and the graphic lead at least holds a BFA specializing in illustration and 3D animation (who will be your most expensive employee, more so than a lead programmer), this is a pipe dream. Unlike even modding, a MMO requires script writers for quests and dialogue; a barn full of graphic artists and animators (plus the time to fill out a whole new world with concept art -- a very tedious and long thing to do, even for the pros); and programmers divided into divisions who are paid and not working in the open source manner -- as the project would take to 2050 to finish.
And let's not even go on about licensing requirements and their upfront costs for your team -- and acquiring the funds.
If it only could be done so easily, there would be hundreds of thousands of MMOs online right now, and done by teams of modders who are fans of a franchise or idea.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
How old are you, seriously?
You don't goto the library to "learn" C++. C++ takes on average 20 years to master, and not something you learn from reading books, but actual practice -- and learning most while on the job.
You also don't just jump into C++, but start it after learning other languages to get the gist of OOP programming and schemetics (which is why Python is widely recommended to learn first, as it's a language that's easier to read).
For gaming, you also will have to learn higher maths (especially if you want to specialize in the graphics area -- particularly linear algebra -- as working with vectors is a mind numbing experience, even if your favorite past time is logic puzzles).
You need to know the realities so you won't get burned out from the start. If you want to learn how to make a MMO, the best way is to learn how to design a MUD, as it eliminated the need to get bogged down with graphics production -- and will teach you the value of game play and mechanics (let alone server/client optimizations). Plus, you can do it while working with Python.
From there, with some years of programming experience and learning the meat and potatoes, can graduate to making a MMO.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Creating a webbpage is easy? no a good webbpage is art. I made some too, can't say that they are particulary good but a lot better than SOE and many other crappy around.
It is not the technical stuff that is hard, it is the art part because a real webbpage is art.
And yes handcoding is better but Dreamweaver is actually not that bad. A webbpage in dreamweaver will never get as good as a competently made handcoded one but let's be honest, SOE all webbpages code have been done a lotter better by an art student in dreamweaver than how they are now.
They are ugly, slow and bad coded, finding anything useful is like walking in a maze.
Yeah any schmuck could learn .html in a weeks self studies but that is far from enough to create a good webbpage.
Anyways, the OP is 11 years old and it seems like he have a bit to go before he can really start on the game. But OP, with a lot of work you can make a good game still. You must however start by learning programming good and 3D modelling. A game need 3 things: Good ideas, good programming and good graphics. If you plan to do it by yourself than you have to learn the last 2 and it is hard work.
Off course we seen game done by really young people before but games go more and more proffesional, it is almost impossible to make a MMO by yourself today, because they are massive games. However you can make a demo to take to a publisher (unless you are rich and plan to hire in people for your own money).
Thanks for the tip on his age, explains things -- And Whitellama, learn Python. It's not a "dumbed down" language and even AAA games today still use it along with C++ (Oblivion used it; as well as BF2142, as sometimes it's better than C++. In programming you use the best language for the job, which means you'll be learning many languages, for specific tasks). No better time to learn it as it's getting a revamp.
But as for webpages being art, that kind of died when Flash came along.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
actually I think i'll try python if it's good enough for oblivion its good enough or us. this game is going to be first person and we're trying to find a languge that will work with that. At 11 yeas old it isn't easy making a game though its just me and whitellama. We got some money to start it but our main goal is to avoid failing.
Most people have absolutly great ideas for theese games but never make it happen and deveop the game.
I like to refer to that as EPIC FAILURE. Which is really what we are trying to avoid and I think that were doing fine.
thanks you for telling me about python because honestly I was looking for a different languge besides c++...
Maxila
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
You cook a man a meal he eats for a day;
you teach a man to cook he eats for life.
Ah, yes i did prattle on a bit in my last post, sorry.
Long story short: Research other games.
IMHO if developers looked backwards every once in awhile we wouldn't get as much trash as we do now, Look at the game "Vampire Rain"....i seriously doubt any of them said "We want to make this game like Vampire The Masquerade:Bloodlines", which might explain why it...well...sucked.
I support ideas, while you may not be able to get into advanced programming right now there is still so much you can do, writing, storyboards, game research, concept art....you can still make this game come alive without programming a single line.
Also, you might have the workings of a decent PnP game...or both, who knows.
Starting out from scratch you'll need to avoid the pitfalls. The biggest one will be the graphics side (it's really painful to produce it, from the concept to it's application). Thus, learn Python and get a couple of books on how to make a MUD (which is very similiar to MMOs, just without the graphics). You'll become better all around by taking that route, as you'll concentrate on the bare bones, the skeleton if you will, of a game.
When I play the newer games, I spend more time looking at the set design than actually playing the game (like with FPS games, spending time on empty servers literally on my knees looking at joins, and how tricky joins were accomplished without bleeds; learning the various ways ambient lighting is applied, and how it creates a mood for a scene; to even the mundane, like how that plant was placed on a table, and how it gives a room a lived in feel or not). This is also how you can learn from the pros without meeting them (or going to college or workshops to learn the outrageously expensive software to learn how to create it), and will give you invaluable tips -- and some "ah..." moments.
Even in MUDs you will have to learn about set design -- with the goal that the environment is a living breathing ecosystem for the exterior; and livable places for the interiors. So in other words, your perception skills will be taxed. It's funny in a way, that in the zest to make the most realistic environment, you'll be experimenting with a ton of mundane things -- like taking hundreds of shots of concrete paving, to match the texture to the lighting (or to find one to use as an example when you create it by hand). When I was making sliding doors with the F.E.A.R. SDK (which has darn good editors), I went to the grocery store to not only look at the bronzed frames, but to copy the stickers on the doors -- and to notice the wear on them (and it's funny how folks look at you while doing it!). The eye can detect flaws on sight, and the goal -- eventually when you get into the graphics side -- is to fool them to believe the environment is real, though it's but pixels.
But I digress -- learn from the ground up, and don't take short cuts <-- you'll be frustrated to no end.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Im typing like a noob but im smart im not a proper grammer freak but im still very proffesional.
Arrogance i dont realy like that:(
Darkfall comming soon so no need for a newbee game.
Now what was your question again?
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Okay everyone I was starting to get frustrated from listening to UNATCOII so I blocked him.
Sorry I don't like to block people but he has been bugging me since post #28. I know that with good effort this game will come out nice and when I actually get a job (after college) I will recruite a team and everything so all it is now is a very early head start. It's like going to school for your adult career so I don't want to hear anything about how you don't think I will suceed because truely at my age now it doesn't matter!
A wise person speaks because he has something to say,
a fool speaks because he has to say something.
Whitellama
Creating a webbpage is easy? no a good webbpage is art. I made some too, can't say that they are particulary good but a lot better than SOE and many other crappy around.
It is not the technical stuff that is hard, it is the art part because a real webbpage is art.
And yes handcoding is better but Dreamweaver is actually not that bad. A webbpage in dreamweaver will never get as good as a competently made handcoded one but let's be honest, SOE all webbpages code have been done a lotter better by an art student in dreamweaver than how they are now.
They are ugly, slow and bad coded, finding anything useful is like walking in a maze.
Yeah any schmuck could learn .html in a weeks self studies but that is far from enough to create a good webbpage.
Anyways, the OP is 11 years old and it seems like he have a bit to go before he can really start on the game. But OP, with a lot of work you can make a good game still. You must however start by learning programming good and 3D modelling. A game need 3 things: Good ideas, good programming and good graphics. If you plan to do it by yourself than you have to learn the last 2 and it is hard work.
Off course we seen game done by really young people before but games go more and more proffesional, it is almost impossible to make a MMO by yourself today, because they are massive games. However you can make a demo to take to a publisher (unless you are rich and plan to hire in people for your own money).
It seems weird when you say "the OP" because I read every single post and reply to almost all of them that don't tick me off or that my brother hasn't already replied to. I currently actualy am learning programing and 3d modeling because I am going to get python for dummies or something on the internet and I will use it with my other computer at my other house. With the 3d modeling I am learning Maya (I know it's a bit unusual) and I am learning with a website that gives you tutorials, lessons, examples, and walks you through it. So I think I will get some good experience.
I think that until I need money I will work on it by myself but me and my brother plan on making our own company. But I'm not sure how we'll find the cash.
A wise person speaks because he has something to say,
a fool speaks because he has to say something.
Whitellama
[...]
Does not compute. If you can program a MMO, you can easily design a website (which is much easier of the two, even if reinventing the wheel).
So what's the real reason for posting? Any good material would be copyrighted, as that's IP.
Don't mean to rain on your parade, but designing a game is a tough thing to do. If just making a mod takes a team of 12+ designers, a MMO from the ground up would take at least dozens, divided into divisions.
Actually, if you've got the creativity and skill, you can make a browser-based game alone. All you have to do is make everything in FLASH and import it.