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What *really* has the SOE apologisits all stirred up?
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I lost what I enjoyed once. SOE didn't seem to care nor did the NGE fanbois. Why should I care?
I think this statement pretty much sums up the problem.
Look. I ALWAYS lose what I enjoy. It's a running joke between me and my friends. If there is a food I like in a supermarket it will be discontinued. A restaurant I like? Closed. Television show? Discontinued.
But I don't complain about it years afterward. Probably becuase I've come to terms with the fact that nothing is permanent. If something breaks in my house, no matter what it is, I don't go mental. I just throw it out. If I want another and can afford it (and if it still exists) I get a new one. If not then no big deal, I just move on.
Somebody seriously needs to do a study on this whole SWG/NGE thing because it's beyond fascinating.
the other problem is that people are looking at this the wrong way. Like it's a life style thing. This is a product and they are a business. Now, businesses are not know for being wise or good or great. But they do make decisions based upon profit. And you were a customer.
They changed their product, you didn't like their changes and so you make the decision to move on. This is not the last time this will happen to you. I promise.
But people really need to learn to let go of this thing. It's beyond unhealthy the level of vitriol that gets posted, the waxing romantic "if they made a pre-nge server, would you..." posts fly across the internet.
As I said, things come and go in our lives. Products, friends, lovers, jobs, etc. If we hold on like grim death to every little thing because we expect that everything will stay the same then at worst we are deluding ourselves. At best? We are an episode of Oprah.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I lost what I enjoyed once. SOE didn't seem to care nor did the NGE fanbois. Why should I care?
I think this statement pretty much sums up the problem.
Look. I ALWAYS lose what I enjoy. It's a running joke between me and my friends. If there is a food I like in a supermarket it will be discontinued. A restaurant I like? Closed. Television show? Discontinued.
But I don't complain about it years afterward. Probably becuase I've come to terms with the fact that nothing is permanent. If something breaks in my house, no matter what it is, I don't go mental. I just throw it out. If I want another and can afford it (and if it still exists) I get a new one. If not then no big deal, I just move on.
Somebody seriously needs to do a study on this whole SWG/NGE thing because it's beyond fascinating.
the other problem is that people are looking at this the wrong way. Like it's a life style thing. This is a product and they are a business. Now, businesses are not know for being wise or good or great. But they do make decisions based upon profit. And you were a customer.
They changed their product, you didn't like their changes and so you make the decision to move on. This is not the last time this will happen to you. I promise.
But people really need to learn to let go of this thing. It's beyond unhealthy the level of vitriol that gets posted, the waxing romantic "if they made a pre-nge server, would you..." posts fly across the internet.
As I said, things come and go in our lives. Products, friends, lovers, jobs, etc. If we hold on like grim death to every little thing because we expect that everything will stay the same then at worst we are deluding ourselves. At best? We are an episode of Oprah.
SWG/NGE is already a study in what NOT to do in the industry.
Apparently accountability means nothing to you. If the decision was based upon profit then business best practices tells you to go back to what was working. Case study #1 - New Coke.
I have moved on as has the majority of the people who once enjoyed the game...but like an elephant I will not forget when wronged and will voice that opinion as is my right. as a consumer.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I lost what I enjoyed once. SOE didn't seem to care nor did the NGE fanbois. Why should I care?
I think this statement pretty much sums up the problem.
Look. I ALWAYS lose what I enjoy. It's a running joke between me and my friends. If there is a food I like in a supermarket it will be discontinued. A restaurant I like? Closed. Television show? Discontinued.
But I don't complain about it years afterward. Probably becuase I've come to terms with the fact that nothing is permanent. If something breaks in my house, no matter what it is, I don't go mental. I just throw it out. If I want another and can afford it (and if it still exists) I get a new one. If not then no big deal, I just move on.
Somebody seriously needs to do a study on this whole SWG/NGE thing because it's beyond fascinating.
the other problem is that people are looking at this the wrong way. Like it's a life style thing. This is a product and they are a business. Now, businesses are not know for being wise or good or great. But they do make decisions based upon profit. And you were a customer.
They changed their product, you didn't like their changes and so you make the decision to move on. This is not the last time this will happen to you. I promise.
But people really need to learn to let go of this thing. It's beyond unhealthy the level of vitriol that gets posted, the waxing romantic "if they made a pre-nge server, would you..." posts fly across the internet.
As I said, things come and go in our lives. Products, friends, lovers, jobs, etc. If we hold on like grim death to every little thing because we expect that everything will stay the same then at worst we are deluding ourselves. At best? We are an episode of Oprah.
SWG/NGE is already a study in what NOT to do in the industry.
Apparently accountability means nothing to you. If the decision was based upon profit then business best practices tells you to go back to what was working. Case study #1 - New Coke.
I have moved on as has the majority of the people who once enjoyed the game...but like an elephant I will not forget when wronged and will voice that opinion as is my right. as a consumer.
Exactly. Also, people would have been much more willing and quicker moving on if the genre offered us ANYTHING remotely close to what we once had and enjoyed. Since a lot of us can't find anything to fill that void, all we can do is sit here, disgruntled, unfulfilled, and remember the good times.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
So of course i expect you back here in 5 years ,when EVERY single MMO is using micro transactions?You will of course say SOE is the leader of the industry and all others are followers?And of course that you were wrong,because frankly SOE apologizes ,just to look good,in reality,they know most of you haven't a clue beyond your own two shoe laces.
They have a business to run,does ANYONE actually think a developer is going to say "HOLD THE PRESSES "we got a new whiner here wants us to change everything.Then WHEN and of course ONLY when you give them the OK,they can start up again,BUT WAIT !,,there is a new joe blow who wants changes...HOLD the PRESS again,we have to keep joe blow happy too,but wait this is going against what the first guy wants..oh no ,now what?
I wonder.under this kind of stupidity,could a game ever get released?i mean there could potentially be 25oo players that want some kind of change,or not?Probably tons more than that.
I hope this ends the BS talk i have been hearing about SOE this and that,when it is all BS.If you cannot see beyond yourself and realize there is a lot of people out there besides yourself,then you need to quit gaming,go read a book or something.
Oh and of course SOE has no clue about gaming,that is why Blizzard chose to copy SOE's game ,for their flagship game.Why did Blizzard not copy someone else if SOE is so clueless?Yep and the Playstation series has been a big failure lmao...the SWG whiners stand alone,minorities crying for something they will NEVER get.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
So of course i expect you back here in 5 years ,when EVERY single MMO is using micro transactions?You will of course say SOE is the leader of the industry and all others are followers?And of course that you were wrong,because frankly SOE apologizes ,just to look good,in reality,they know most of you haven't a clue beyond your own two shoe laces.
They have a business to run,does ANYONE actually think a developer is going to say "HOLD THE PRESSES "we got a new whiner here wants us to change everything.Then WHEN and of course ONLY when you give them the OK,they can start up again,BUT WAIT !,,there is a new joe blow who wants changes...HOLD the PRESS again,we have to keep joe blow happy too,but wait this is going against what the first guy wants..oh no ,now what?
I wonder.under this kind of stupidity,could a game ever get released?i mean there could potentially be 25oo players that want some kind of change,or not?Probably tons more than that.
I hope this ends the BS talk i have been hearing about SOE this and that,when it is all BS.If you cannot see beyond yourself and realize there is a lot of people out there besides yourself,then you need to quit gaming,go read a book or something.
Oh and of course SOE has no clue about gaming,that is why Blizzard chose to copy SOE's game ,for their flagship game.Why did Blizzard not copy someone else if SOE is so clueless?Yep and the Playstation series has been a big failure lmao...the SWG whiners stand alone,minorities crying for something they will NEVER get.
If Sony is so good why can't they tap into that market share Blizzard has? Or should I say why have they failed to tap into it...
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
So of course i expect you back here in 5 years ,when EVERY single MMO is using micro transactions?You will of course say SOE is the leader of the industry and all others are followers?And of course that you were wrong,because frankly SOE apologizes ,just to look good,in reality,they know most of you haven't a clue beyond your own two shoe laces.
Haven't been paying attention to the TOR and EQ2 microtransaction uprising, have you? Some mmos will go that route and few if any will succeed. Studying modern events helps when you head into battle.
They have a business to run,does ANYONE actually think a developer is going to say "HOLD THE PRESSES "we got a new whiner here wants us to change everything.Then WHEN and of course ONLY when you give them the OK,they can start up again,BUT WAIT !,,there is a new joe blow who wants changes...HOLD the PRESS again,we have to keep joe blow happy too,but wait this is going against what the first guy wants..oh no ,now what?
Nope. no one expects developers to pay attention to whiners anymore than they pay attention to those who literally assasinate the english language. What we do expect is that they pay attention to the majority of the current subscribers. They didn't then and they are not doing so now . Perhaps we also expect them not to lie through their teeth to the playerbase. Case in point, the Ranger Revamp. Still waiting on someone, anyone to paint that one into a pretty picture. The rest of the lies and deceit is documented pretty much everywhere so I won't bother to be any more redundant.
I wonder.under this kind of stupidity,could a game ever get released?i mean there could potentially be 25oo players that want some kind of change,or not?Probably tons more than that.
Yeah same here and yet NGE is here. Fascinating. You were refering to SOE's stupidity right?
I hope this ends the BS talk i have been hearing about SOE this and that,when it is all BS.If you cannot see beyond yourself and realize there is a lot of people out there besides yourself,then you need to quit gaming,go read a book or something.
Oh, your hopes are dashed. You aren't the first to come in here with a forceful attitude and try to bulldoze your way through the argument. There is more than a dozen better posters who have tried your tactic. Hasn't stopped anything. Worse off, in cases like yours, you just manage to hurt your cause. As for reading a book. I suggest the same back at you. Would continue with the obvious pun but I will leave that to finish itself in the minds of those who read this post and yours.
Oh and of course SOE has no clue about gaming,that is why Blizzard chose to copy SOE's game ,for their flagship game.Why did Blizzard not copy someone else if SOE is so clueless?Yep and the Playstation series has been a big failure lmao...the SWG whiners stand alone,minorities crying for something they will NEVER get.
Do enlighten us how WoW was copied from SOE. Please provide well reasoned proof. And then come back in here with your holiday console sales report. Last time I looked at the scoreboard, Sony is in a lot of trouble with the PS3. I'd provide you with the links but let us start with that book first.
$OE doesn't get it, never has, never will.
$OE Austin has totally revamped gameplay, now, 3 different times. (CU, NGE, C6CD) This time, they chose to revamp their entire business plan with TCG and the micro aspects it brings. TCG is getting about the same reception as all the other CHANGES have gotten them. Lost subs.
Any1 who doesn't believe that SWG will be shut down at the launch of SW:TOR is kidding themselves. Even Smed set it up by using the specific word "sunset". It would be bad business practice for LA to have 2 competing MMOs out at the same time, expecially in this market.
Sad, really. SWG could have been and was something special with it's Koster-esqe build, seamless worlds, player houseing, and sandbox. And maybe it's comeing, but I really doubt I'll be overjoyed when it does end. SWG ending also means an end to major sandbox MMOs and tells future development, just that..
They've been trying, trouble is they're not smart enough to work out why WoW is so huge, infact over all of SOE's games they've had every aspect at one time or another that if expanded upon could have absolutely obliterated WoW. The problem has always been that they pinpoint one aspect and try and make wholesale changes to replicate it, instead of taking inspiration from WoW and Bliz and expanding and absorbing it into what SOE already has with their various games. In a word, polish. No SOE game I've ever played has had it, none of them, not even remotely as polished and bug free as WoW.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
They've been trying, trouble is they're not smart enough to work out why WoW is so huge, infact over all of SOE's games they've had every aspect at one time or another that if expanded upon could have absolutely obliterated WoW. The problem has always been that they pinpoint one aspect and try and make wholesale changes to replicate it, instead of taking inspiration from WoW and Bliz and expanding and absorbing it into what SOE already has with their various games. In a word, polish. No SOE game I've ever played has had it, none of them, not even remotely as polished and bug free as WoW.
Yep there are bugs in swg that where there from its release from beta, now thats more than enough time to sort them out, yet they release new content rarely and most of the time its bugged or causes new bugs to exsisting content, its a mess yet the fanbois still play that the game is " working as intended" excuse the pun its an old swg bluff line, couldnt resist it.
yet for all there attempts at the wow customer base never once did they pull it off.
Why is WOW huge and SOE not?
This is easy to figure out if you exist outside the Smed Unreality Sphere:
1. Warcraft is a recognized IP, with a rock solid history of past great games. Not even Star Wars is even in the same universe wtih Warcraft with respect to a game IP largely because there hasn't been any consistency of quality to Star Wars games for more than a DECADE.
2. Blizzard makes sure to always release a rock solid, polished, complete product. Like WOW or hate it, it IS exactly what it's advertised to be and does EXACTLY what they say it does.
3. When Blizzard makes an expansion, they add more than a glorified themepark and toss in loot designed to do little more than be a carrot to obsolete last expansion's loot. Oh, and like the core game it's released rock solid, polished and complete.
4. Blizzard doesn't have a track record of screwing over their customers with unwanted, massive overnight game changes that delete whole chunks of the game and/or invalidates YEARS of time invested. They haven't made false claims, such as promises of the core game system being "here to stay" only to completely eliminate it months later, nor have they promised to never put a RMT item store onto existing servers only to slip that in overnight with no prior announcement. SOE has done both.
Comparing SOE to Blizzard is as laughable as comparing the crappy IT sweatshop run by a crook I once (unfortunately) worked for to IBM. They are similar in that SOE tries to publish and maintain MMORPGs, while Blizzard SUCCEEDS in publishing and maintaining one.
I'm sure the SWG developers enjoy having you to look out for their best interests, Gutboy.
You want people to stop trash-talking your favorite company? Convince SOE to respect their customers.
SOE's current reputation goes way beyond SWG at this point.
Also, I read lots of books which is how I know to put a space after a comma...
don't forget the stalkers. gratz feles! you arent really using the internets until you get a stalker.
well its not all of a sudden... vets have been doing angry outburtst Every single update.... yet the game is still alive and sill lots of ppl play (not as much as before but still lots too keep the game alive and well) And Since TOR is being made by a different company i dont think SOE has much too worry about for now. of course everyone will try TOR.... but will the game be as good just because it has the title STAR WARS in it? lol well only time will tell.
well its not all of a sudden... vets have been doing angry outburtst Every single update.... yet the game is still alive and sill lots of ppl play (not as much as before but still lots too keep the game alive and well) And Since TOR is being made by a different company i dont think SOE has much too worry about for now. of course everyone will try TOR.... but will the game be as good just because it has the title STAR WARS in it? lol well only time will tell.
It certainly couldn't be worse, could it?
No, I think TOR has Smed crapping in his pants. He's pissed that he didn't get to be part of the next SW mmo and I still doubt that LucasArts will allow two SW games on the market competing with each other...especially considering the current reputation of SWG. I could be wrong, LA has done some dumb stuff in the past, but I don't see it playing out any other way.
And you're wrong about the game being alive with lots of people playing...if that was true they wouldn't be merging servers.
I think the biggest reason why a lot vets want SWG to die is, like someone mentioned earlier, accountability. We all know subs went down drasticaly but other than that, we have seen no real remorse from SOE. Then they put out propoganda that they believe the current SWG is the best out there (yeah...the lack of a few hundred hundred thousand subs say otherwise) which it just like a kick in the teeth to all of us who once enjoyed the game. Also many vets hate seeing the game they once loved turned into the horrid mockery of it's once former glory that it is now. It's like seeing your favorite pet slowly die....you just want it to hurry up and happen because you can't move on from something that hasn't died yet.
As for the employee's of SOE who will be out of a job....well three years ago THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS told them they were making a stupid decision and yet the trigger was pulled. I feel no remorse for stupidity.
it couldnt be worse? you havent seen 3/4 of the mmo's out there lol... i know ALOT of games worse... only reason ppl think SWG is bad is cause they played the game pre-cu.... those who havent (most like it) not all. But games like WoW and Darkfall are worse... ... so it can get worse lol.
If people actually liked swg as it is today, they'd have many more people. The NGE was a compete and total failure since the primary reason for it was to maintain and then increase its player base. We all know how well that turned out (well except for folks like Badgersmacker who seem to think theres just as many or more people playing today),
And WoW is not worse than swg. WoW works and has always worked as it should. Same can't be said for swg. As for Darkfall, how can you make any claims about it when it hasn't even been released yet???
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
The station pass increase was caused by 2 things. 1 the NGE killed off 200K+ subs from SWG but then SOE took another bad step lol. 2) Smed loaned his old buddy several million dollars to buy back his game from Microsoft then, when they couldn't meet any of the deadlines they promised, SOE cashed in their debit card and pulled Vanguard under its wing. They had to recoup that loss somehow and with the moves being taken in the back room concerning sony/SOE/Sony Pictures, Smed probly started crapping bricks. So, what better way to make things on paper look better than to up the station fee so that people can pay off Smed's bad decisions.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
It's true that SOE has never shut down a MMO.
But there is a first time for everything.
Sony is bleeding too much cash, and with SOE supposedly releasing 3 new games in the not too distant future, there will be plenty there to replace the bottom 3 station pass games if they close them.
Look for them to lose: Planetside, Matrix Online, and SWG. SWG will probably go before Vanguard simply because they don't own the IP and it's future is uncertain with SWTOR's inevitability anyway.
I think a lot of the apologists are getting stirred up, because it is becoming clear that they are not as important as they make themselves out to be. The station cash fiasco paints a pretty clear picture of how little their opinions matter and what type of situation SOE is facing.
The mmo future of this division relies on their upcoming releases. Their current titles are all declining, losing major talent, slowing down content releases, etc. The current lineups only hope of long term survival depends on the success of the new games. Even in a best case scenario if that does happen all of the current games just take a step down the station pass life support ladder as they become less important (as they already are aside from paying the bills).
I'm not saying that SOE is going to fold anytime soon or that they will even close down game, but if they don't do something to turn their mmo efforts around there is no way they can continue on their current path. I think that is the reality that isn't easy for people to overlook anymore. There are only so many times people can say "there are people joining everyday", before that little comfort phrase stops hiding the truth.
I agree with your entire post Daffid but I really wanted to add to this part.
We know that Sony is looking at some restructuring this year. They've announced 8000 job cuts almost entirely to it's electronics division, but they've hinted that SCE (formerly SoE) will be "looked into". My feeling is that SCE is virtually completely lacking in a "lifestyle" marketting campaign for it's PS3, and given this opportunety to re-invent itself they may serisouly look at phasing out PC gaming.
In all honesty if I were running the show at SCE I'd certainly think twice about maintaining support to PC gaming when you have what seems to be a pretty decent console system which seems to be the ideal platform for RMT's - which of course is the Holy Grail of SCE business models these days.
I just hope SOE is around long enough to demonstrate two things: mmorpgs on consoles will never work and RMT is not wanted in western games.
I just hope SOE is around long enough to demonstrate two things: mmorpgs on consoles will never work and RMT is not wanted in western games.
Now don't get me wrong I really dislike both console gaming and RMT's, but I can see why SCE would focus completely on both. This is their "niche" in the market.
I just hope SOE is around long enough to demonstrate two things: mmorpgs on consoles will never work and RMT is not wanted in western games.
Now don't get me wrong I really dislike both console gaming and RMT's, but I can see why SCE would focus completely on both. This is their "niche" in the market.
I don't care what they do with it as long as they are around long enough to show that it's not viable outside a population of fanbois. I can see the usual suspects around here loving a console version of SWG but I would hate for some decent developer to give it a shot...