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PvP is Ruined...
BiggusRiggus
Member UncommonPosts: 126
I went to WAR in August thinking I would be able to relive the epic world PvP battles that first occured in Southshore when the game first came out. I swore I was done with WoW, only to realize how crappy WAR was after playing two weeks. I came back in December to WoW, and just finished a DK to 80 a couple of days ago.
I've been PvPing for about a day and I really feel like the finally killed PvP for me in WoW. There is so much burst damage, and so many people completely epiced out already. It makes it not fun. There was a time when you were lucky to have two epics in 6 months of playing this game. First it was Arena gear, then welfare PvP epics, and now heroic welfare epics. The heroics aren't even hard anymore. Hell, my guild runs Naxx in blues. All you have to do is spend 8 hours a day for a month and you have full epic gear. Without it you are in no way competitive.
Yes, you can grind out some gear in about 3 months PvPing 2 hours a day, but with that many people running rampant already geared out, you can have all of the tactics in the world, and you will lose. I don't want epics, I want everyone back the way it was pre-bc with only a few God Geared losers... you could PvP and have fun!
Class changes out the wazoo... OP Pallis are just the tip of the iceburg... they got rid of mace rogues only to give them something else that endlessly stun locks... etc...
I am really bummed that I even bothered to level to 80. And by the way, it only took me 6 days played to go from 55 to 80. I really believe that soon, if you have one level 55, you will be able to start any character at 55 like the DK. I also think, and this might be stretching a little, that you will be able to buy in game gold and gear straight from Blizz. They are learning from the Funservers!
Comments
There was high burst damage in PvP after Burning Crusade released as well. It will remain until people get more resilience. Even Blizz themselves has said that they're monitoring the situation.
Naxx is an entrance level raid. It is not supposed to be Sunwell 2.0.
If working on your characters gear isn't something you like doing, then this game probably isn't for you and never was.
Too much bursting is way better than 3 people unloading everything on a druid or priest that's standing there laughing.
Wait, you just now figured out that needing to grind endlessly to be competitive ruins pvp? WoW has been that way from the beginning.
PVP gear != PVE gear and vice versa.
Yes Retribution paladins have high burst, but they still aren't the highest bursters, so just because retribution used to be a joke but is competitive now doesn't ruin PVP.
PVP now is more fun than at any time during TBC. I do agree I miss Astranar, Crossroads and Southshore rumbles
Reinstate dishonorable kills and make them effect important stuff like honor, reputation and arena standing - make it so reputation will be affected negatively permanently or give you a 2 week debuff of noreputation, honor and xp after a dishonorable kill. I know it's harsh, but with great risk comes great reward.
Every class has there own skils in the game to become burst resistant.
Like pallys they got bubble.
Mages they got ice block.
Hunters got feign death, people might not think this works, but if your getting teamed by alot of people it'll work to trick them into thinking your dead, though your pet might give you away.
rogues got cheat death, vanish, cloak of shadows...ect.
it goes on from there....
Playing: WoW and Guild wars faction.
waiting on: GW2 and next WoW expansion
played: flyff, diablo2, maplestory, dungeon runners, eudemons online, conquer online, runescape, decide online, perfect world, and atlantica.
Burst isn't huge. I was PvPing in wintergrasp the other day, and healing people just fine. Yes, they could lose 10k hp in a second or two. Thing is, I can heal 10k hp in about 2.5 seconds, and the burst abilities used to do that sort of nonsense have a much longer cooldown than that.
It's not terrible, but it is impossible to heal with 2-3 people on someone.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
I play priest, for example, and i got 750 resilience at the moment. Sure I can beat the typical 1800 scrubs, but there's no way you can survive vs 2 skilled DPS who can time CC and apply burst properly, except if your partner outplays both of them. The only useful thing I can do with my priest now vs a proper team is to stay there with glyphed SoR spamming Flash Heal and pray to RNG Gods it will last a few good seconds.
Sadly PvP has become a burst fest, more so than it used to be.
Some people think it will get better when we gear up with more resil, and until then healers are just screwed, but that isn't true.
the new resil cap is around 1.2k (1258 or something like that, doesn't matter). but even with 1.2k resil thats only a -15% chance to be crit and -30% crit damage. lets go over how hard a few classes hit.
Rogue: Ambush crits for 9-10k without resil on leather-mail armor. a 30% reduction brings that down to... 6.7k-7k damage. and odds are its going to crit due to talents, despite the -15% chance.
cold blood + mutilate. both weapons crit, you're going to see another (after resil) 10k damage. then a finishing move for after resil, about 5k+
thats 3 GCDs, and over 20k damage, with CAPPED RESIL. this is what healers are going to have to deal with even with the best of PvP gear, and I'm sorry but that just can't be healed through
Mage? they can be just as bad. everyone is deep arcane throwing out 5-10k crits on instant cast spells, PoM pyro, arcane blast, fireblast, every mage I talk to agrees they should never be standing still in PvP, they never have to stop to cast.
Even feral druids, shreds can crit after resil for 4-5k, thats a spammable out of stealth move. and everyone knows about ret pallys, insane burst damage + a 6sec stun is just adding insult to injury.
its widely agreed that 2v2 teams need to be double DPS, and healers have no place in the arena right now. they simply can't keep up with the damage.
and this is why i prefer WAR PvP. because I'm a healer and I feel useful. but I'll stick to WoW PVE, far more fun.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Old news is really old...
Purpose in life is not to gain things, but experience. - Rover64dd
I still finish tops in AV in kills, limited deaths with my Aff Lock...
i m alway dubious about players that think about finnishing top in kills in bgs . it really shows a lack of understanding about battleground tactics . i usually tend to use my aff lock in av to defend the keep usually the allies send a pallie or a couple of stealthers to take it early in the bg . so its the few that stay around frost wolf that actually buy the attackers enough time to win . luckily not all players think the way you do . its a bit like trying to see you name on the high scoreboard on an arcade game unfortunatly thats not at all what the battlegrounds are about .
Kinda offtopic but - Anyone else gets fairly annoyed when they see the word "scrubs" in context related to WoW activities ? :P
Right. So rogues, paladins and death knights do not in any form or shape benefit from resilience? This idea that the classess/pecs being slaughtered now (all warlocks, priests, resto druids) once they get resilience will be able to turn around and be competitive against other double melee is idiotic and ignorant
The only changes once everyone gets resilience is that non melee will last a few seconds longer while melee will also last longer. Gotta love this argument that rogues/paladins and death knights dont get resilience.
A healer/dps combo with high resilience is not going to be anymore effective against high resilience double melee dps. I mean, its not like the healer's dps partner is going to have a tougher time killing 1 of the double melee dps in high resilience is it now?
It just astounds me how many stupid people play WoW.
True story... I was there. Hell, even a paladin... "What's that? You almost killed me? BUBBLEHEAL! Oh, you almost killed me again? How about two good, long stuns so I can heal myself again in case you popped your trinket on the first one? Oh my, I must really suck 'coz you've gotten me life down again... I'll just inst-fullheal myself for one last go-around." Fun on a bun.
time for a change maybe, give aion a shot. pvp in the abyss is a blast.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
You are not alone (reading the EU and US WoW forums too) but people instead of cancelling they come to the forums...It won't help!
Only way Blizz would ever listen is when you press that little cancel button and fill in the text box explaining why you quit.
As long as you stay subbed, they won't give two shits about what you or anyone else has to say
Did I forget to mention I cancelled...
I'm confuzzled how you can complain everyone's so easily epicced out one on end and then call back to a period there was massive gear difference between haves and havenots. Clearly it's not equality you want since that's easy these days.
There are already people over 800 res still getting 2 shotted by Rets, Rogues, and DKs so the argument that burst is better than long drawn out fights that take skill is only positive if your playing a rogue, DK, or Ret. This is not like BC, BC was unbalanced sure but that doesn't mean it was a move in the right direction, WOW took the wrong direction and just went with it. The new growing populations of Darkfall and resurgence of WAR only proves that. I doubt the nearly 12 mil players Blizz cliams are currently playing more of a bit of pulblic relations propoganda.
I've become completely discouraged playing PvP now, especially with the new - must have arena points to acquire the lvl 80 epic pvp gear. /sigh I had saved up for my lvl 70 set when I was about to hit 70 - well they took that out /cry so I'm not 77 lock and can't get the resilience needed to really survive well in the BGs - well except AV only because I'm normally with a buttload of people. WoW has ruined it for me. I get a pally knocked down - FINALLY - and *bubble* - its BS or I'm managing against another target when I'm deathgriped /sigh its just annoying after so many times. And now all you really see are pallys and DKs in the BGs so most people have stopped playing. AV now takes over an hour to start. And the crap pvp area that is Wintergrasp - lag anyone? I just wish that Blizz would listen to some of the suggestions and actually fix them or even the freakin lag would be nice. I'm to the point where I'm looking for a new MMO because this game is too crowded with children and has just nosedived since it began. I began playing before BC and I could contact a GM and get a response within 30min - I contact them now and 6-8hrs later I'm lucky to get a response - most times I have to log before they reply. Fix the issues Blizz for the love of all that is holy.
Oh and Mwaji - totally true - I find it hard to believe that the figure Blizz reports are playing WoW is correct - it just isn't. Well unless they're including everyone's alts on all of their servers - that's the only way I can honestly believe that figure is correct. With that much money coming in you would think they could actually fix some of the issues with their servers.
Yeh my Shammy of the same name was a reroll cause hunters were boring, was planning on doing just BGs and Arenas at 80. So I was going to get at full 70 set and go forth that way.. but it's so broken at this point whats the point right? About 4+ months of casual play to get to 8k kills with some basic gear a few pieces of decent gear was what I stopped at, was still pulling in 3rd to 4th place in BGs but its just insane what I had to do to pull that off, pretty much a 3 minute mage now, best bet for me was to flag guard and buy time on cooldown for wolves.. then pray i Don't run into an Unholy spec which is hell on WF/FT.. I swear Rets were easier than that match up for me. Being underpowered wasnt so intolerable for me as having my entire talent tree pretty much ripped off by Death Knights wearing full plate who can do what I can but without those nasty cooldowns.. oh and double the health.. and CC. Sadly enough, Warlocks have it the worst.. I got to the point of not even fighting them out of remorse. Sure I had a few wasted talent points, meant to respec but the inbalance is so out of control what would be the point. On a side note maybe it was just my playstyle but I had much less of a problem with rogues than DK, Ret. Priests which I also have an alt ( shadow ) have a bugged Mind Flay which they changed the mechanic to work like channeled arcane missiles so mind flay now misses lol, hunters have nerfed stings and ZERO mana regen, all kinds of things are wrong.
I get the feeling of playing in a private server run by 12 year olds trying to play wow now.
Want PvP?
Play Darkfall.
I am just waiting for it, already cancelled wow, GW is too boring.
I can't help but laugh as these fourth whit developers as they yet again, dig themselves into a trench with no positive solution. They had a chance with all these sweeping changes, and what did they do? Well, the results are obvious.
I have to hand it to them though, it takes real skill to get handed a great game and then turn it into what it is today.
WoW PvP had been ruined way before WotLK launched.