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What a weak line-up the MMO world has
markyturnip
Member UncommonPosts: 837
Was thinking hmm... I wonder if there is a nice MMO out there I haven't played yet, where I can explore an open, large and varied world full of intriguing things...
I looked down the list, and it dawned on me - this genre really is pretty weak atm.
The recent crop of games don't really fill that criterion at all... WOW is full to bursting and its community is tired and haggard. AOC was too small, and instanced. WAR does not really work right now, and its gameworld is both linear and pretty empty.
Perhaps Lord of the Rings is the closest to that, although it still suffers from the mobs standing around like lemons waiting to be aggroed (an issue that most MMOs have.. which, IMO, really kills any possible immersion.)
Has Vanguard improved enough to be worth a shit? The other game I might consider is SWGalaxies... how is that looking these days? Getting a bit old in the tooth though, I imagine.
Comments
I suggest you try Vanguard.
Welcome to the club. This site is a magnet for people like us who are tired of the same old crap regurgitated by different developers. We are hoping for some mold-breaking games in 2009, but if the past is any indication, we are doomed yet again.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I played it, left it after a month like everyone else.
Has it really improved that much?
This is not encouraging:
One thing I really hated was that the mobs seemed to be disconnected to the gameworld somehow, and didnt do anything (until you aggroed them). It all felt so stilted and lifeless.
I am spoiled by having played a ton of really quality sp games recently, and guess my standards have changed. Perhaps unrealistically so given the apparent state of technology.
MMOs suck? heck man, welcome to reality... Every game suck. Name me a good game? The video gaming industrie is a joke. It's more sterile than the Hollywood egemonie used to be with cinema in the early days of the medium. They stole our generation new medium and killed it, because of the fucking $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I agree 100% with the static safari park mob game design being rubbish.
Time for a mmo maker to use a dynamic spawn table generator based on character/ party level and distance travelled, throwing in rare nameds/ non-combat encounters (merchants, lore & quest giving travellers etc)/ traps/ whatever.
I am so sick of static fields of bears and wolves.
MMORPGs designers need, imo, to stop copying other MMORPGs and go back to grass roots to take a look at PnP games and what makes them so good. Not mechanically, necessarily, but creatively or dynamically.
The EQ template was created the way it was due to limited technology in '97/ '98, but it has all come a LONG way siince then. There really isnt an excuse for doing stuff like this, except just thats the way convention has always done it.
Wake up guys plz
There hasn't been innovation in the area of AI or content since the inception of the genre. There has been efforts put forward to improve graphics but its stil button mashing standing lemmings.
All mmos suck.
all i can say is give darkfall a shot ...
I played it, left it after a month like everyone else.
Has it really improved that much?
This is not encouraging:
One thing I really hated was that the mobs seemed to be disconnected to the gameworld somehow, and didnt do anything (until you aggroed them). It all felt so stilted and lifeless.
I am spoiled by having played a ton of really quality sp games recently, and guess my standards have changed. Perhaps unrealistically so given the apparent state of technology.
No Vanguard is terrible. I have returned to it on a number of occasions and every time I find it amazing that there are nutcases who still try and promote its "open and free world" and its "fantastic graphics". Vanguards so-called gameworld is as static as any other mmo and it really is as boring as any game can get. I totally agree that it felt totally lifeless and wooden.......and no the graphics are not good at all. Actually the game looks awful. The animations are still dreadful too.
There are people that will tell you that in Vanguard you can explore a vast and interesting world but actually in reality the so-called gameworld is just a static 3d plain like any mmo which is dotted with npcs and mobs and the "adventure" that these people are referring to comes from the fact that the game doesnt tell you where things are. Yeah thats it......thats what passes for adventure in the minds of todays unimginative gamers. Remove the quest markers and suddenly its a wildly exciting adventure lol.
You are not alone though in your opinion of mmos. I dont think there is a single one which is particularly brilliant. They all seem to follow the same old formulae as developers just dont seem to want to risk making something interesting. They just build on what has been made before and unfortunately the games which came out beforehand were shit.
I really enjoy LOTRO. The expansion has been great and it's brimming with fun content in a decent world.
Some of the issues you listed seems to show your general disgust for the industry, and not really a problem with the games being weak.
If you can't find enjoyment in Eve, LOTRO, Everquest2, Vanguard or WoW.. I don't think MMOs are for you right now.
I think if people are expecting a major revolution and a totally different design in the MMO genre, they should avoid the next few years of MMOs.
Just to summarise the worthwhile planned releases for 2009:
- Aion
- Stargate Worlds
- Chronicles of Spellborn
- Champions Online
- Jumpgate Evolution
(I would've listed All Points Bulletin but I hear it's not an MMO, more a 32v32 match type game.. Same for Huxley)
None of these games are going to be real innovations or clobber the market. Infact, it's looking like LOTRO for a good while now and wait to see how the new Starwars turns out.
Just thinking as well.. I'm not sure we will ever see a total redesign of the genre. It's like people who complain and say Call of Duty 4 is just like Call of Duty 1.. Well, of course it is.. How much more can you really do with an FPS game?
I ran into this disgust a long time ago.. I finally got over it by changing my focus on what I enjoy in MMOs, and that's *content*. Give me lots of stuff to do and enjoy, instances, crafting, pvp, in a fun world with a good engine and i'm happy. This is why Warhammer failed badly for me; it did all of the above really badly.
I have to agree with you OP, and my suggestion is to give older, and under the radar mmo's a shot for now. Lotro is probably the best modern thing out right now, but personally im enjoying games like Ryzom, DDO, and Matrix online right now for some reason, they're kind of like hidden jewels in a sense.
Reading threads like this, I really feel at home
Recently, after AoC, another attempt at WoW with the release of WotlK (lasted one month before overwhelming boredom), I chose to try Warhammer Online, and it's nearly the very same do-and-repeat unimmaginative stuff.
I am waiting (and hoping...) for Darkfall, too, and meanwhile I play simple flash games and old single-player VGs (because yes, they are more entertaining than the average MMO out there!). It's incredible how all the economic potential of MMOs market is wasted: today's MMOs are mature products, and need some sort of innovation to retain consumers' interest. But no software house invests in creativity, all the money goes to SW development and marketing. The proof of this is how we lack big minds like Garriott (I cannot blame him for the outcome of Tabula Rasa, NCSoft was not the place to go really...) or Sid Meyer, people who invented brand new videogame genres of planetary success thanks to great ideas and smart gaming mechanics.
And if nothing new comes, there's always pen-and-paper RPGs (but who has the time to arrange a group of players this days? Ah, the joyful times of youth!
).
See above.
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Though I don't really agree with you as I think each game has something unique to offer AND I think of them as games as opposed ot alternate lives (*shivers*) I do have to agree with this point.
This is probably one of the worst things about LOTRO as well as many other games. My god, make them do something.
Whenever I ride across Middle Earth I am either annoyed that there are just hundreds of mobs standing there, dotting the hillside doing nothing or not amused that I constantly have to avoid them at every turn.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
All the talent in the gaming industry, got eaten up by contracts and money. I will not fault the game designers of yesterday for taking high paid positions in companies like Vivendi, SOE, EA, ect... The control over the product, and the lack of control by the veterans created this copy paste atmosphere. If you look around you will find that the same designers that made games like wow, and said clones are bailing out as soon as there contracts are up, they are teaming up with other veterans and friends. The following quote sums it up.
"MY DESIGN PRINCIPLES FOR CONNECTED GAMES
Broadband connections allow for so much more than current online games take advantage of—current games are built using parameters and guidelines established ten years ago and dogmatically obeyed in the face of new, available technology present in other industries. In addition to technology, many of the standards and practices that were established in the stand-alone gaming world have been ignored in the online game space. I started off in the industry as a result of a belief that there was more you could do with computer games than what was being presented, and I founded Trion with that same belief for online games. It is time for games to evolve into a globally connected world."--Jon Van Caneghem
http://www.trionworld.com/studio.php
More looking around will also show some trends really are forming, mainly the talent that mentioned earlier is moving on from the big companies.
One game only imho will be the next mmorpg advance if the devs pull it off. European Launch is 1/22 but open to all. Darfall.
Truely player-driven sandbox where environment, pixels and computer-controlled characters dont controll the player, the players drive the game from town controll, resource, crafting, economy, politics, combat, reputation, bounty hunting, story, etc.
However, if you still want an overly-hyped single-player rpg/social network environment rather than a gae,then sure, Vanguard, WoW, WAR, AoC...any of those.
Aion - The game for people who want something more than WoW without it actually being a different type of MMO. It is more challenging, has better PvP and a richer world, or you could go the lets make it all even easier route of WAR.
Jumpgate Evolution - The "fun" MMO of the year, will have lots of high octane action, good solid PvP where skill matters and an always dangerous environment. Remains to be seen how much depth the game will have though.
Earthrise / Darkfall - Sandbox PvP heaven, if you like open worlds, rich environments and the freedom to do whatever the hell you want, then these are the MMOs for you, one Sci Fi (late 09), one Fantasy (late Jan). Enjoy and stop crying about the lack of decent sandbox MMOs since SWG's NGE.
Everything Else - Chump change, some good things in there but all look remarkably average and quite a few will probably slip to 2010, which in turn should be a really interesting year for the MMO.
I agree 100% with the static safari park mob game design being rubbish.
Time for a mmo maker to use a dynamic spawn table generator based on character/ party level and distance travelled, throwing in rare nameds/ non-combat encounters (merchants, lore & quest giving travellers etc)/ traps/ whatever.
I am so sick of static fields of bears and wolves.
MMORPGs designers need, imo, to stop copying other MMORPGs and go back to grass roots to take a look at PnP games and what makes them so good. Not mechanically, necessarily, but creatively or dynamically.
The EQ template was created the way it was due to limited technology in '97/ '98, but it has all come a LONG way siince then. There really isnt an excuse for doing stuff like this, except just thats the way convention has always done it.
Wake up guys plz
"MY DESIGN PRINCIPLES FOR CONNECTED GAMES
Broadband connections allow for so much more than current online games take advantage of—current games are built using parameters and guidelines established ten years ago and dogmatically obeyed in the face of new, available technology present in other industries. In addition to technology, many of the standards and practices that were established in the stand-alone gaming world have been ignored in the online game space. I started off in the industry as a result of a belief that there was more you could do with computer games than what was being presented, and I founded Trion with that same belief for online games. It is time for games to evolve into a globally connected world."--Jon Van Caneghem
See? He agrees :P
STOP READING THIS FORUM AND PLAY AGE OF CONAN YOU IDIOTS.
Cute, but no soup for you. You know what I meant.
And who cares about the entire community of all servers. You only play on one server at a time.
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Well I think their is a great line up. SW TOR is looking good(each player does get to have a small impact on the game world forgot where I read that) most likely a Rohan x-pac to LOTRO if they keep with the yearly x-pacs like they said they wanted to do. STO looks cool with all the worlds to explore.
Guess Im just one of those simple minded folk is kind of fun is not getting PK'd anywhere at any time, losing XP at death, having items stolen, or exploreing a world that, that, that looks every other fantasy world to ever come out........ Im sorry but I just don't get how that keeps people from playing a game. LOTRO is pretty big IMO and I love seeing the land marks from the book so friggin kick ass.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
The only MMO that I have heard of that does not have static mobs waiting to be aggroed is Darkfall. They say their mobs move through the world with a purpose. Since it is not out yet I can't say how well they accomplished this though.
I have been casually playing it and having a blast.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
MMOs used to be made for gamers by gamers.....now it is made by anyone who has the money and made for the masses which blow BTW.....
give me an Old School MMO
or at least pre-cu swg