What to know why the game is increasing in activity?
Because the people that play it and the people that try it think the game is good.
They don't care about CCPs passed problems they just play and have a goodtime.
It's that simple.
People have different opinions on different games while you think Eve is a terrible game and CCP is only out for money. I happen to think it's the best game on the market since SWG, I happen to think CCP is a great company that keeps giving us free content that's actually fun. They have a tough job, balancing a skillbased game is hard work and for the most part I've agreed with thier decisions. So they missed a couple big exploits thier human man, shit happends Eve is still an enjoyable experience for most of us.
Eve online also has a very bright future in my opinion, with a new tech level coming and total revision to the pve mission side of the game, up and coming ambulation thats going to bring more social aspects to it.
I love playing Eve and nothing you say could change the way I feel about this MMO and a ton of people feel the same way i do this is why activity and possibly subs have risen.
Those ships are useless, more so in 0.0. The only BC that anyone would expect to see in 0.0 is the drake, and to get that full t2 fitted takes at least 5 months from scratch. Missles, shields, navigation, electronics, engineering, and BC 5 which you do need otherwise you'll be torn apart in seconds. Not a single good corp would expect there pilots to be flying t1. Theres a good reason for that.
A Goon supporter are you? If you don't go by BoB's standards, you will get mashed in 0.0 by all the bigger boys; Tri, BoB, AAA, RedA, RZR etc etc.....
If you don't come close to these standards, you will just get podded. If your not effective at PvP then why you in 0.0? Maybe I should clarify, when I mean 0.0 ready I mean go in and not return to high sec for months at a time, not pop in, get some ratting kills and dash back.
Erm, you've lost me. I was asking how do you actually know that active subs has risen when there seems to be no source or way of finding this out? Point is no one does apart from CCP, and as WoW frequently released its active sub numbers, how come CCP doesn't?
You got ripped off. Simple. Check shattered cyrstal, a listed seller of GTCs for eve. Eve is the most expensive on there, but really the highstreets never seem to do good prices (Zavvi for the UK readers).
I was just pointing out the naivety of your comment everyone should work. A lot of the time it's not possible.
"Eve is good 'cuz..." Not a reason. It's unbalanced (fact), requires no tactics (max damage is a testament to this) , is dated (WoW style fighting is evidence) and CCP just want money, not provide a quality service (Lie to the customers and miss years old bugs).
If you can give a reason why eve can look past all that, sure, that's what I'm asking. But saying I'm wrong just because I am with no logicall reason is ACTUALL trolling.
As for playing the game "jut because it's good", I'm a firm believer that everyone can explain what good is, hence the reason if you look at eve, I can deduce it's okay due to the many, many flaws, and when that's combined with the price, it's dire.
I could bring up each and every feature and tell you why I like said feature and you could counter my post and tell me im wrong just like you have been doing(even though its all a matter of opinion anyway). it doesnt matter, get over it and move on.
I've been playing Pvp mmos for a very long time a games shift in balance never ends, theres is no totally balanced game. If your going to let things like that bother you don't ever play pvp games again please.
You said in your intial posts that new players need two years to become good at the game, I disagreed and gave you examples. you disagreed and brought up BoB. what if a player doesnt want anything to do with null sec? BOB is not the be all end all of Eve im sorry to say.
you took Eve way too seriously imo, you seem to get hung up on exploits that CCP missed and balance issues calling it bad service? some people just don't care about that stuff. people make mistakes while you wont let these go, I and may of us do.
Some players are just happy in small ships or a big ship not exactly fit the way BoB deems worthy.
The best part of eve is that it could be played anyway we want Mazty, it gives us a level of freedom that we havent seen since UO.
Pull the balance issue and the exploits all you want, I know its hard for you to believe that some people just dont care.
You bring up CCP charging more for GTC? while your right it has been increased its still in line with other games that are much worse (of course my opinion).
You say Eve is old and and then point to WoW? im sorry but I played WoW and considering Eve ripped me from WoW i consider wow old in comparision.
OH and how did CCP lie to customers again? the ghost training thing? get over it.
Hum, apart from the increased number of adverts around the net, anyone know why the number have shot up?
It's because Eve is a Master Level hardcore game that DOESN'T pander to 1-hour-per-week casual gamers.
In Eve, Achievement actually means something you can be Proud of and brag about.
Imo Eve is the new paradigm for MMOG success - instead of dumbing things down, devs should require excellence and the fanbase will grow and rise to the challenge.
Originally posted by Mazty Hum, apart from the increased number of adverts around the net, anyone know why the number have shot up? After several huge PR disasters I'd have expected figures to have decreased significantly, not rise
the evidence shows your expectations are wrong.
The game is not what you define it to be, or even what you want it to be. Other players enjoy it and it is clearly gaining subscribers and players. For some reason this seems to offend you.
But how can anyone not see things in your particular light?
It is the height of arrogance to say your view of how the game should be played/developed is the only one there is. For most people the so called scandals don't affect them, and those that are affected can either adapt (OMG the speed nerf will kill the game, Oh, the vaga is still a good ship, who would have thought?) or nerdragequit.
Oh, and as has been said before, there is no bad publicity. Complaining loudly gets more people to look at the product, some of these people will then buy it.
*Sigh* No, the evidence shows bugger all, as I've explained due to the fact CCP refuse to release the active subscriptions. As you must be aware of, when the record gets high, everyone logs on their alts. All the high number may mean is the bombardment of net banners has drawn in people to trial accounts.
Oops, looks like I've upset a fanboy
The game is what I define it to be. As someone who prides myself on not being bias, all the flaws I have mentioned exisit. That's not opinion or a debate. It's fact.
The game is unbalanced. Blobwarfe and rook/falcon swarms show this as well as many other ships. If you play eve, you know the ones I mean. Oh, and of course war dec'ing
The storyline is utterly, utterly pointless. You can fly whatever, and fleet with whoever, making the storyline entirely irrelevant.
The levelling system turns into a money grab. To become good, you have to have a set amount of skill points, close to 20 million. As long as you get the standard little boosts, it will take a long, long time to reach this, and with that time comes the cost of subs. Unlike exp based games, there is a set price on being good in Eve. With GT now gone, the level system seems to take and give nothing in return.
Also, due to the levelling system, the game becomes an impossible game of catch up with the veteran players. You can make billions of ISK, but your ship will still get torn apart by theres. Unless your in a blob. Go tactics.
The combat is slow. The math shows this, and the existance of tanking. Unless your in blob warfare, expect a slow fight. This is opinion granted, but I feel that with the money CCP are raking in they could do a hell of a lot more with the combat that would introduce tactics.
Combat is also lifeless. F1 - F5 is the essence of combat. I can't imagine that getting anyone's pulse racing. However, admittedly this ones more of a poor element of the game in my opinion than an outright flaw.
CCP give poor customer care. Now this one I find hard to understand how some people view it. They lied outright to EVERYONE for the reason of removing ghost training. Evidence shows (not supports, shows) that it was a known feature that CCP were well aware of and more than happy to continue. (See the mod comment about how he got bollocked for saying it was being removed a while back). Not to mention the official story completely changed after the inital outcry. If people had to buy their subs from CCP in person, even the fanboys who don't mind being treated like cash cows would have something to say. But because electronic commerce is so impersonal, apparently so is the insult to their intelligence. Go figure how that one works...
Oh yeah, you call it adaptation...
And it's not nerdragequit, it's customer rage at a business.
What is the height of arrogance is to criticise my views on Eve because they don't match yours. I think it's somewhat stunning that you can whine about my comments, but no where have you said why I am wrong for thinking or saying what I do, other then I just am. When you come back with something constructive, such as the elements of the game which overlook all these flaws, then awesome, it's what I'm asking for, not to be hit by the fanboy bat for having a negative view of a game.
As for no bad publicity? Again, can't actually prove that until CCP release there sub count which always has seemed to float around 250k mark. Would like to actually have some hard figures.
Last time I checked, eve was just a game. And as eve is all about skillpoints, is it then an acheivement to pay $400 for the required skill points to become good? Then surely even the casual gamer can gain the acheivement of being good by popping on battleclinc, picking a t2 ship to aim for, and paying his subs for the next so many years. Or just pop onto the character bazaar and pick yourself up a titan pilot. Sorted.
As there aren't tactics in eve other then spam ships, I can't see how it's possible to achieve anything in it other then "Woot, (x) skill has just leveled". The autotargeting and bugger all steering pretty much sees to this as well.
Or is it an achievement to participate in MAX Damage, the mother of all battles due to the exceptionally skilled tactic of spamming as many big ships as possible? Just curious as to these acheivements you go on about.
How about a decent MMORPG comes out which doesn't have a cooldown style combat system which feels lifeless, and as its down to timing, you could pretty much train a monkey to do it. In my opinion, pump up morrowind to DX10 and make it 10x the size. That'd be a winner.
*Sigh* No, the evidence shows bugger all, as I've explained due to the fact CCP refuse to release the active subscriptions. As you must be aware of, when the record gets high, everyone logs on their alts. All the high number may mean is the bombardment of net banners has drawn in people to trial accounts.
What are you talking about? CCP do release active subscription numbers. The subscription totals they release include only active accounts that have been paid for and are released as they pass a milestone or make a big press release. They don't include inactive, lapsed or trial accounts. And based on those subscription numbers, the number of EVE players has steadily increased since launch to a current total of over 250,000. And when they hit 275,000 or 300,000, they'll update that figure.
Granted, the PCU does include trials but there's a limit to how many trials can log in at a time (I think it's either 3000 or 5000). You're trying to suggest that the increase from the old PCU of 40,000 to over 45,000 is due to hoards of trial accounts but that's physically impossible. Also, if you log a trial account in you'll be told via an information popup how many accounts currently logged in are trials. For example, "Currently there are 33738 players on the server and of that 1983 are trial accounts" (taken 5 minutes ago). If you want to know what proportion of those logged in at peak times are trial accounts, go right ahead and check.
I'm sure other people will come and argue with everything else you've said but I will save myself some effort and spare my sanity. You seem to be completely incapable of separating your opinion from fact. You do realise people can disagree with you without being catagorically incorrect, right? Your opinions on the quality of EVE don't magically override the game's success. A lot of people like the game, pay for it and play it. Those people disagree with you and that doesn't mean they're wrong or you're wrong, it just means you don't like EVE. Big whoop, lots of people don't like EVE. But most of them don't waste their time writing essays on a forum about how much they don't like it.
Insert signature that doesn't break the rules here
WoW dude I could have saved myself so much trouble by just checking ur post history. out of ur 30+ posts near all of them are flaming or bitching about Eve.
I had no Idea you were a freaking butt hurt ghost trainer hahahaha!
Jesus christ did u get banned for that PoS exploit also?
no wonder theres no reasoning with you and you can't see hom people dont give a shit about the problems with Eve.
Let it out man keep making these idiot posts about CCP and the big bastards that lied to you and took away ur ghost training advantage.
Ehh maybe you shouldnt cause here all that shit you spew fall on deaf ears, here most of us love Eve.
You picked a forum that thinks Eve is a unique game... hell even the players that dont play it respect it.
What a waste of time, get over it.
Ur bitching on the wrong forum.
How many accounts did you close because of the ghost training thing? 2? 3? 10? how many did you ghost train so u could resell them and make RL money? man thats sad.
QQ more
Im so happy they got rid of that bullshit feature people need to pay for training if you cant afford it get a job!
I need to remember post history next time before I respond to someone, what a waste of words on a hater.
It's worrying that a father uses the term "Butt hurt" .
Plus its also somewhat disturbing that you seriously have an inability to understand ghost training. You talk as if it was an advantage to some players. Everyone could do it!
The reason so many of my posts are anti-eve is because I say something about eve being not as great as people think because of X or Y, and a get a hail of fanboy illogical, circular arguments, and i'll be damned if i'm going to shy away from retards babbling on about something they clearly don't want to understand.
Accounts were sold for RL money? They wern't. CCP just want more money and so lied to their customers. That's bad business practice, but people would rather warp reality so that it didn't seem that to admit they were giving their cash to a bunch of b******s.
As for getting a job, I'm busy getting an education in the hope that I will never get a job which turns me into forum dwelling eve fanboy.
Nice graph, although what is interesting is that the last subscription anouncement was in April time, around there highest server pop. Now i'd have expected them to release a 275k mark with the 45k population, but it hasn't happened which leads to wonder the actual sub number.
"You seem to be completely incapable of separating your opinion from fact."
How? I try to keep fact and opinion sperate, so where have I gone wrong?
"You do realise people can disagree with you without being catagorically incorrect, right? Your opinions on the quality of EVE don't magically override the game's success. A lot of people like the game, pay for it and play it. Those people disagree with you and that doesn't mean they're wrong or you're wrong, it just means you don't like EVE."
Yeah, admittedly I'm no longer a fan of Eve, but NONE of you have actually said why Eve is good, or how I am wrong, other than I just am. That's liberal talk and at worst, fanboy talk. As I've asked before, with the PR mess ups and the flaws, how come it's increasing? That's not an invitation to smite me under fanboy rage or liberal "your wrong because your criticising my interest" replies, it's a question.
If you look at how things went, I said how come is increasing with the PR mess? To which I had to explain, and was then hit with the absurd idea that GT wasn't a bad PR situation etc etc. Anyone whose taken a look at it knows that CCP was money raking, to argue anything else is rediculous.
I was then told that Eve was charging a standard price (it isn't) for the GTC's and that people should get a job to afford it. I brought up the point it wasnt a standard price and due to the level system, it was exceptionaly expensive.
From there on a was hit by a hail of "no, eves not expensive, its great, stop crying about GT". I then showed how eve infact is full of flaws, and now we're here
Blame fanboys for being woefully arrogant and trying to get me to ssh with the time old "your just wrong" argument.
It's worrying that a father uses the term "Butt hurt" . Plus its also somewhat disturbing that you seriously have an inability to understand ghost training. You talk as if it was an advantage to some players. Everyone could do it! The reason so many of my posts are anti-eve is because I say something about eve being not as great as people think because of X or Y, and a get a hail of fanboy illogical, circular arguments, and i'll be damned if i'm going to shy away from retards babbling on about something they clearly don't want to understand. Oh right, you think actually think accounts were sold for RL money. They wern't. CCP just want more money and so lied to their customers. That's bad business practice, but you'd rather warp reality so that it didn't seem that you were giving your cash to a bunch of b*stards. As for getting a job, I'm busy getting an education in the hope that I will never get a job which turns me into forum dwelling eve fanboy.
It's ok, one day when you grow up maybe you will have a nice job with a nice big office that lets you play Eve and hang on the forums in peace in between conference calls and meetings. Having a home office when I don't feel like leaving the house or don't have to travel half way around the country is nice also.
And getting an education is no excuse for not having a job.
You bitching about the money man but don't want to work? "eve costs too much" "eve lied and took my free training away"
Now I wonder if Eve didnt take Ghost training away and never raised the price of GTC would you have made all these negative Eve posts still, nahh probably not cause you could train for free, cause thats all it comes down to for you.
Anyway, I could do what your doing also, I could pick out a couple features I want Eve to improve and bitch and bitch cause noone could challenge me on it. Things like a broken wardec system, sub standard missions, Mining thats mind numbing and bounty system that just doesnt work.
I could pull all these out and make a big long post about how anyone could play the game with these problems. While I may enjoy Eve im not that much of a fanboi that I dont see problems with it.
I think everyones problem with your posts is that your so focused on the negative and never bring up anything positive that you sound like a pure hater.
Ill bring up Eves problems but I don't completely ignore the positive and say Eve sucks this is what you're doing and it's the reason you're recieving this type of reaction from people.
"Why is Eve's activity increasing, even though CCP has had a few PR disasters?"
Because these "PR disasters" Haven't really bothered the vast majority of the playerbase. Even if this new achievement was just a few thousand players logging on alts Eves activity has still been pretty steady all year, proving that the "disasters" havent had much effect on the majority of the playerbase.
I'll agree CCP's problems have been pretty bad, removing ghost training was a bit shady but the majority of the playerbase thought this was a good change so It didn't effect numbers at all. CCP itself has stated that only a few hundred accounts closed down. ( was a dev blog on the eve site look for it).
"CCP is a cash grabbing company, they have the highest sub rate, why do people still play?"
I don't know where you live but I live in NYC, when I go to buy my wife her game card for WoW it costs 29.99 plus tax which is around 34-5 bucks. I goto the game shop cause my son likes to come along and I buy him a Wii game once every other month if he has good grades. Now if you check battleclinic Eves 60 day time code costs 34.95, Seems in line with WoW to me.
Even if Eves sub may cost a bit more where you live im living proff that this change doesnt effect everyone.
"Eve is unbalanced and 0.0 blob warfare is nothing but a who has more ships battle, why do people play this game?"
Because most of those balance issues don't effect the majority of the playerbase. Im not going to disagree that the game needs some balancing but not everyone battles it out in 0.0. And the players that do have worked around it by using certain ships to take advantage until the next round of nerfs spring up on us.
"Why do you like the game?"
I happen to enjoy cyber spaceships, I like defending sections of space with friends. I enjoy working around CCP nerfs and was smart enough to join a really big alliance that lets me play the may me and my friends want so we dont have to follow bobs guide lines. I like small gang combat in low sec space on my alt and Faction warfare is actually fun also. I enjoy my indy alt because I find hauling fun while bullshitting on vent with my friends.
Was that ok? I gave you reasons why I like Eve and hopefully answered some of ur questions.
Originally posted by Mazty *Sigh* No, the evidence shows bugger all, as I've explained due to the fact CCP refuse to release the active subscriptions. As you must be aware of, when the record gets high, everyone logs on their alts. All the high number may mean is the bombardment of net banners has drawn in people to trial accounts.
Oops, looks like I've upset a fanboy
tears of laughter (oh, and I am not sure, 'fanboy' is name-calling yes?)
from what i remember, and this is not a fact, as i can't find a link, trial accounts are not included in the concurrent user statistics, they are also capped. wish i could find that reference. take it as hearsay but consider that every PSU suffers the same error of lots of alts logging is, not affecting the overall trend. Also for sure plenty of banner ads will help the game grow.
Originally posted by Mazty As someone who prides myself on not being bias, all the flaws I have mentioned exisit. That's not opinion or a debate. It's fact.
Originally posted by Mazty It was the GTC that were hiked up in price to $35 a month, the most expensive MMORPG, whereas the yearly sub bit people hard when GT was removed.
your facts are often wrong as well. shattered crystal does 60 day cards for US$34.95
Originally posted by Mazty The game is what I define it to be.
wow, now there is a fact for you. the game that tens of thousands of people play, is defined by you? oh dear, so laughable.
you really have no credibility, you demonstrate supreme arrogance and fail to allow any other view except that what you say matters. The funniest thing is it doesn't. All the negatives you point out only matter to a few people and majority of players are still having a good time so there is little effect on the growth of the game.
You want a point by point deconstruction of you view that "After several huge PR disasters I'd have expected figures to have decreased significantly, not rise"
Originally posted by Mazty 1) "Standardisation of timecodes" was what CCP called hiking the price of the game up, higher than any other mmorpg at that time, but no, they couldnt call it that. Most players over looked this however.
Ignored by most players, yep, because it matters to a small part of the client base.
So no it does not affect the games growth.
Originally posted by Mazty 2)Removal of Ghost Training. One of the most appauling cases of customer service I have ever seen. Too much to go into detail here but the jist of it is: Removal of a known feature of the game, claiming it was a bug (Undenaible eveidence shows this to be a lie), leading to the game essentially costing more and becoming more unbalanced. Unfortunaly this out right lie to the customers upset the majority, who threated to quit over it, or at the least close accounts (would be intrested to see sub numbers after that date)
Known feature. oh dear, is that why you played EvE? for the feature of gaining something in a MMO by not paying for it or being able to play it either?
It was not a feature, it was an exploitable bug that allowed the farming of alts for sale.
Removal of this had the effect of removing a lot of non-subscribed and non-playing accounts, not really going to hinder the PCU a great deal, just lower the number of unused alt accounts.
Originally posted by Mazty 3)Quantaum rise being the most "empty" expansion to date, even after 2 cash hikes.
If, as you have done, say the implementation of stackless I/O and improvement of the lag issues are not part of this expansion as they were progressively rolled out before the expansion date, then yes, it was a light one. But this is the feature of this expansion that i loved and respected for effort it took. Especially because they did progressively roll it out, ironing out the bugs instead of taking credit for an expansion that was full of implementation flaws.
but not exactly a Pr disaster and removing the lag from large fleet battles will help the game expand.
Originally posted by Mazty 4)The starbase exploit. A massive exploit which has been in the game for years, yet was never detected and so has messed up the sandbox market, the effects will be felt for months and the market won't ever be the same again (literally)
Yep, this was a scandal, but the market has already normalized. The speculation in goods normalized in under a week but there is still a ~10% mark up on some goods but this is clearly not game destroying. In fact it shows how robust the economy actually is.
This issue has little noticeable effect on most players so little effect the games growth.
Originally posted by Mazty 5)CCP's back history of providing dire customer care, supplying ingame corps with ships etc
if this is about the t20 thing then it is something from 2 years ago. So is unlikely to really affect current growth.
Again look at the sub scription count. One of the previous posts has a link to a good graph which shows that CCP hasnt released any sub info since there previous peak back in April. Maybe with alts closing down, mixed with more adverts, server pops going up, but subs are holding steady, may even be decreasing.
Oops, typo. I mean a 60 day GTC, but either way, more expensive then the other MMORPG's including the brand new DX10 ones.
Now quit being pedantic and taking things out of context. If you read the post and the previous/following sentence you'll see that I mean the game is how I define it to be in terms of the flaws I have mentioned exist in the game. Nice how you skipped around that point.
Oh dear. You actually believed the tripe CCP hauled to the masses even after reading the offical story which wasn't slightly altered - it entirely changed. Not to mention the proof that shows ghost training, a term coined up for it to be removed no less, was a feature and not a bug. It wasn't used for farming, and either way, those non-existant farmers would have had to still have payed subs. So how's it being exploited? And then theres the market sales that continue after sub runs out etc.....
Actually how about you pop to the eve forums and actually look at the mammoth post on it, and don't skip the evidence that shows CCP's terrible customer treatment. I'm done arguing this point with people who don't want to see the full picture.
Well considering I left before Quatum Rise was released, how come I was able to "experience" the stackless I/O? Because it wasn't part of the expansion, it was just an upgrade that should have happend reguardless as the lag was dire, especially for a company raking in cash. Many people will agree Quantum Rise was a giant patch, not an expansion. And not like Emp Age was any good either. Yay, factional warfare, tough luck if your in 0.0.
Check up on the forums, some prices for items have doubled, not to mention how much it wil have screwed up 0.0 politics with the trillions of isk worth of extra cash.
If a company has a poor record I would want to know about it rather then presume time heals all and makes a company better & morally upstanding citizens....blah blah blah. If a companys got a bad history, unless theres a change, it'll probably follow that pattern. And CCP has. Apparently anyone who played Eve is a guillible idiot according to CCP with their GT nonsense.
When I "grow up" I sincerly hope I'm not stuck playing virtual spacships. Talking on vent while in an office? Somehow I can't help think but you watch too many internet reviews ...
Getting an education is an excuse for not having a job, hence it's called full time education. Inbetween my 9-5 lectures, not to mention out of hour assignments, when should I get a job? The 8th day of the week maybe?
Either way petty bickering is pointless.
Taking ghost training away was the step that made me hate eve. I'll explain how. With GT, Eve was the online MMORPG that didn't demand the hardcore socially lifeless sterotypical MMO player that other games did. Eve was the MMO for people who didn't want to be stuck behind their desks, decaying into a socially inept state. You could whack on a skill, smash a few ships, blow up a few guys, log off, get slaughtered at the pub, spend a day recovering and all along you didn't have in the back of your mind that you should be doing something on Eve instead, such as grinding exp, to get your moneys worth. And to reward the players for this time, and therefore, cash intensive system, you could carry on levelling to a very limited degree once your sub ran out. This also was a massive insentive for the casual gamer and people with long stretchs abroad with their carers to return to the game, as they had something new to return to. After all, eve isn't the most excsting game and people would burn out after a few months. The GT would act as a break and an insentive to return, to renew peoples interest in it.
But now GT has gone. This means the levelling system is siply cash intensive. Yes, the idea of having a life still is around. But there's now the need in the back of your mind to renew the sub as soon as it runs out, with no insentive to return to the game if you burn out. Instead of an advantage, the training system has just become more reason to buy premade characters to save r/l cash, as you can put an exact fixed price on becoming good in eve. I'm a gamer who wants to be good through skill, not throwing cash at things. May as well open an Eve item shop while theyre at it.
To quote you:
"Things like a broken wardec system, sub standard missions, Mining thats mind numbing and bounty system that just doesnt work. "
I payed £30 for an offline game, resistance 2 to be precise. One off payment. It's multiplayer is lag free, it's perfectly balanced, has tactics and skill gets you very far. All that for £30.
Yet Eve is getting the subs of 250k people and can't even iron out the simple things, such as the broken bounties, or dire missions. Simply put, where the hell is the money going to? CCP don't have any other projects (apart from one, which is the reason for ambulation) to be funding, and reguardless, the payers, are paying for eve, not another game. If eve was bringing out expansions like trinity every 6/9 months that'd be great, but the last two have been terrible!. Emp Age was useless for anyone in 0.0, so most people, and Quatum Rise was a fat patch with no content. All this mixed with the GT is enough for me to go 180 on a game due to the lack of reguard to the customer that CCP is showing. Eve was average over a year ago, but its quickly falling to the side in terms of quality.
As for why you like the game, totally fair enough, makes sense, good reasons, though I'm not paying $35 every 2 months for it.
When I "grow up" I sincerly hope I'm not stuck playing virtual spacships. Talking on vent while in an office? Somehow I can't help think but you watch too many internet reviews ...
Getting an education is an excuse for not having a job, hence it's called full time education. Inbetween my 9-5 lectures, not to mention out of hour assignments, when should I get a job? The 8th day of the week maybe?
Either way petty bickering is pointless. Taking ghost training away was the step that made me hate eve. I'll explain how. With GT, Eve was the online MMORPG that didn't demand the hardcore socially lifeless sterotypical MMO player that other games did. Eve was the MMO for people who didn't want to be stuck behind their desks, decaying into a socially inept state. You could whack on a skill, smash a few ships, blow up a few guys, log off, get slaughtered at the pub, spend a day recovering and all along you didn't have in the back of your mind that you should be doing something on Eve instead, such as grinding exp, to get your moneys worth. And to reward the players for this time, and therefore, cash intensive system, you could carry on levelling to a very limited degree once your sub ran out. This also was a massive insentive for the casual gamer and people with long stretchs abroad with their carers to return to the game, as they had something new to return to. After all, eve isn't the most excsting game and people would burn out after a few months. The GT would act as a break and an insentive to return, to renew peoples interest in it. But now GT has gone. This means the levelling system is siply cash intensive. Yes, the idea of having a life still is around. But there's now the need in the back of your mind to renew the sub as soon as it runs out, with no insentive to return to the game if you burn out. Instead of an advantage, the training system has just become more reason to buy premade characters to save r/l cash, as you can put an exact fixed price on becoming good in eve. I'm a gamer who wants to be good through skill, not throwing cash at things. May as well open an Eve item shop while theyre at it. To quote you:
"Things like a broken wardec system, sub standard missions, Mining thats mind numbing and bounty system that just doesnt work. "
I payed £30 for an offline game, resistance 2 to be precise. One off payment. It's multiplayer is lag free, it's perfectly balanced, has tactics and skill gets you very far. All that for £30.
Yet Eve is getting the subs of 250k people and can't even iron out the simple things, such as the broken bounties, or dire missions. Simply put, where the hell is the money going to? CCP don't have any other projects (apart from one, which is the reason for ambulation) to be funding, and reguardless, the payers, are paying for eve, not another game. If eve was bringing out expansions like trinity every 6/9 months that'd be great, but the last two have been terrible!. Emp Age was useless for anyone in 0.0, so most people, and Quatum Rise was a fat patch with no content. All this mixed with the GT is enough for me to go 180 on a game due to the lack of reguard to the customer that CCP is showing. Eve was average over a year ago, but its quickly falling to the side in terms of quality. As for why you like the game, totally fair enough, makes sense, good reasons, though I'm not paying $35 every 2 months for it.
You can still be a casual player and play Eve, just cause they got rid of Ghost training doesnt stop that, hell im extremely casual, i just turned 30 (going on 60 due to kids) and I havent found not being able to train while my sub was inactive a problem.
Actually I think the game is better for it since it cut the huge amount of Alts people had by a good amount.
Personally I feel the Faction warfare patch to be a great addition sure it doesn't help 0.0 players out but it does something that Eve couldn't offer before, a way for a noob to get into decent sized battles without being in 0.0. thats a good thing imo. And while I agree QR wasnt the best patch the certificate system that alot of vets laugh at has helped alot of newer players get into the game. And im sure you will agree the lag fix is nice.
Now you ask what CCP has been doing? why havent they created more shit for us to play with or balanced things better? during evefest they stated they have pulled all resources back to eve. So i guess that World of darkness project and the unnamed new CCP Fps actually took some resources from eves dev cycle (which i think is lame).
With all of CCP and Eves problems imo the game is still one of the better MMOs on the market, hell look at the sad state the whole mmo genre is in. We havent had a decent sandbox game since SWG? hell UO? and you're wondering why people still play the game.
Once Eve has real competition they will need to really get thier ass in gear cause mistakes like they've made will hurt them, but right now since theres nothing to play other then eve the subs havent fallen and generally people are happy with the game.
Edit: oh and to respond to ur first few lines, Bro being an adult playing cyber space ships on my free time or in my home office is alot better then what most adults in my field do to relieve stress, (drugs, booze, hookers). You have no Idea how stressful or hardcore the business scene is with our economy the way it is.
Originally posted by Mazty Taking ghost training away was the step that made me hate eve. I'll explain how. With GT, Eve was the online MMORPG that didn't demand the hardcore socially lifeless sterotypical MMO player that other games did. Eve was the MMO for people who didn't want to be stuck behind their desks, decaying into a socially inept state. You could whack on a skill, smash a few ships, blow up a few guys, log off, get slaughtered at the pub, spend a day recovering and all along you didn't have in the back of your mind that you should be doing something on Eve instead, such as grinding exp, to get your moneys worth. And to reward the players for this time, and therefore, cash intensive system, you could carry on levelling to a very limited degree once your sub ran out. This also was a massive insentive for the casual gamer and people with long stretchs abroad with their carers to return to the game, as they had something new to return to. After all, eve isn't the most excsting game and people would burn out after a few months. The GT would act as a break and an insentive to return, to renew peoples interest in it. But now GT has gone. This means the levelling system is siply cash intensive. Yes, the idea of having a life still is around. But there's now the need in the back of your mind to renew the sub as soon as it runs out, with no insentive to return to the game if you burn out. Instead of an advantage, the training system has just become more reason to buy premade characters to save r/l cash, as you can put an exact fixed price on becoming good in eve. I'm a gamer who wants to be good through skill, not throwing cash at things. May as well open an Eve item shop while theyre at it.
finally, you clearly state why you take exception to anyone who likes eve.
I can see how you enjoyed gain in eve without paying for it. The thing is it was very easy to start a 3 week trial, (Caldari Actura) put in a full set of +3 implants, get all the learning and advanced learning skills done, then do a month on a month of for a few months and have a very worthwhile industry/mining/covert ops/etc alt. This worked to the macro miners favor as well as being a mini career as you can sell characters for isk.
I am glad alts are harder to make now. Admittedly i did benefit from it, but now i am simply training an alt up on my main character, and it is still pretty easy.
Also some there still are some places where you can gain in the isk grind while not subscribing. Trading will let you put items on the market with high mark ups where there is low trade volumes, over months, especially if you spread your investment of multiple product lines, you will reap the isk. Then the is research points which still accumulate while not subscribed.
Oh, and if you can tell me which item is still doubled in price, that would be great cos there is money to be made undercuting that grossly inflated item.
Best thing to do is completely ignore Matzy. He has such an inherent dislike of the game that he cannot discuss it rationally. Instead resorts to ficticious facts that only suit his side of the story. Most of his complaints are about changes that have made the game better.
Matzy is just an example of the type of troll who should just be ignored. Most of what he says is either a gross distortion of rumours or a bit of truth with a big exaduated white lie.
On the main topic tho its nice to see that not all MMO's are failing and that WoW isant the only MMo thats growing at a steady rate.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
How? Please explain that. After playing eve for a while I know the flaws in it, and personally, I wouldn't pay a monthly sub for a game with them in. So instead of branding me a troll and a lier, how about you say how I'm warping truth, or is it the reason that what I'm pointing out is valid, and so you dislike it?
What is it with you/ a lot of eve fans and taking personal offense at anyone who doesn't like the game? I dislike Eve, not the players, let's get that straight.
The flaw with your character farming is that:
1)All characters would have to be active with subscriptions, meaning CCP loose out on nothing
2)You say it's good alts are harder to make. I'm going to pressume your not a hardcore 0.0 pilot as you'd understand the necessity for having several alts at any one time.
As for gaining isk while not subscribed, well the forums and myself see that as a massive sign that CCP only took away GT for extra cash, not to help the eve universe in any way. As for that item, it's on the forum post about the market issues.
Metalhead980 came up with some really good reasons for why Eve is a good mmorpg and why it's probably still growing - it's sandbox and a lot of the new expansions, while hollow for a majority of players, makes the game more welcoming for new players. Considering how a lot of games are WoW clones in one way or another, I guess I can see why it'd seem appealing.
Though why I no longer am intrested in eve (other than the given points above), even through the good points like fleet battles (the size is the selling point, not the blob tactics) and sandbox gameplay, is that when I started playing, November 2007, trinity was on it's way and it looked like Eve was set to go on to become bigger and better. However once trinity had passed and it was on to Emp Age, the game seemed to stagnate. It wasn't becoming deeper, nor where the somewhat massive flaws being fixed. Then when GT kicked in with the increase in sub price, the "your all idiots, give me cash, no more GT for you" incident and the features of QR where released, I realised that Eve wasn't going anywhere quickly. From looking like a revlutionary game it had done a 180 to become a money grabbing sub average game, with a hefty price tag. I was out in 0.0 with BoB, was able to fly logistics pretty much perfectly as well as recon, and was very close to flying Command ships well, and it didnt seem worth the price by a long shot, or that it was going anywhere quickly. This may be a reason why eves not going over the 250,000 sub mark maybe, it has it's hardcore players, but everyone else gets bored quickly of it and their illusions of greatness that is eve quickly evaporate.
Though if eve does pull its act togther and really puts all the cash back into the game, I would still be open for having another try at it, but only when it becomes a game that reflects the cost of it. As ive previously said, offline games at the moment are much cheaper and a better quality than eve, and most mmorpgs for that matter.
Originally posted by Mazty Again look at the sub scription count. One of the previous posts has a link to a good graph which shows that CCP hasnt released any sub info since there previous peak back in April. Maybe with alts closing down, mixed with more adverts, server pops going up, but subs are holding steady, may even be decreasing.
The site that graph is from has not been updated since April 2008 for ANY game. The site it self has not had a single update since May 30th. It no proof in any direction of ccp releasing sub count data after April or not.
If you check press releases they say nearly 250k subscribers up until November while the latest one says 250k. So it does look like subscriptions have stagnated slightly but they are still increasing.
We should also expect a huge influx of new players in late spring when Eve will start to be sold in stores. How many of those new players will keep playing remains to be seen.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
I've played a good few MMOs and some of them were truly terrible, I'm sure you all have. But hey, if you decide you don' t like a game, do you still hang around in the associated forums slagging it off? I know I don't, I wipe it from my PC and forget about it totally. I really couldn't care less about a game that fails for me.
Hence I think Mazty has some other problem otherwise, if he hates the game so much, why is he posting such endless streams of vitriol?
I think all of us who play Eve have criticisms of aspects of interface/gameplay/storyline or whatever but it's far more interesting to read and discuss constructive criticism with ideas for improvement than a slagfest...
Please read the entire post. I asked a valid question to begin with and came across a lot of fanboy criticism. I'm not one for standing down to circular logic and arrogance, hence the numerous posts, numerous but rational & from a point of experience, not ignorace.
Comments
What to know why the game is increasing in activity?
Because the people that play it and the people that try it think the game is good.
They don't care about CCPs passed problems they just play and have a goodtime.
It's that simple.
People have different opinions on different games while you think Eve is a terrible game and CCP is only out for money. I happen to think it's the best game on the market since SWG, I happen to think CCP is a great company that keeps giving us free content that's actually fun. They have a tough job, balancing a skillbased game is hard work and for the most part I've agreed with thier decisions. So they missed a couple big exploits thier human man, shit happends Eve is still an enjoyable experience for most of us.
Eve online also has a very bright future in my opinion, with a new tech level coming and total revision to the pve mission side of the game, up and coming ambulation thats going to bring more social aspects to it.
I love playing Eve and nothing you say could change the way I feel about this MMO and a ton of people feel the same way i do this is why activity and possibly subs have risen.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Calm the rage, I'm criticising eve, not you.
Those ships are useless, more so in 0.0. The only BC that anyone would expect to see in 0.0 is the drake, and to get that full t2 fitted takes at least 5 months from scratch. Missles, shields, navigation, electronics, engineering, and BC 5 which you do need otherwise you'll be torn apart in seconds. Not a single good corp would expect there pilots to be flying t1. Theres a good reason for that.
A Goon supporter are you? If you don't go by BoB's standards, you will get mashed in 0.0 by all the bigger boys; Tri, BoB, AAA, RedA, RZR etc etc.....
If you don't come close to these standards, you will just get podded. If your not effective at PvP then why you in 0.0? Maybe I should clarify, when I mean 0.0 ready I mean go in and not return to high sec for months at a time, not pop in, get some ratting kills and dash back.
Erm, you've lost me. I was asking how do you actually know that active subs has risen when there seems to be no source or way of finding this out? Point is no one does apart from CCP, and as WoW frequently released its active sub numbers, how come CCP doesn't?
You got ripped off. Simple. Check shattered cyrstal, a listed seller of GTCs for eve. Eve is the most expensive on there, but really the highstreets never seem to do good prices (Zavvi for the UK readers).
I was just pointing out the naivety of your comment everyone should work. A lot of the time it's not possible.
"Eve is good 'cuz..." Not a reason. It's unbalanced (fact), requires no tactics (max damage is a testament to this) , is dated (WoW style fighting is evidence) and CCP just want money, not provide a quality service (Lie to the customers and miss years old bugs).
If you can give a reason why eve can look past all that, sure, that's what I'm asking. But saying I'm wrong just because I am with no logicall reason is ACTUALL trolling.
As for playing the game "jut because it's good", I'm a firm believer that everyone can explain what good is, hence the reason if you look at eve, I can deduce it's okay due to the many, many flaws, and when that's combined with the price, it's dire.
Mazty on PSN
Mazty, I'm sorry you hate the game.
I could bring up each and every feature and tell you why I like said feature and you could counter my post and tell me im wrong just like you have been doing(even though its all a matter of opinion anyway). it doesnt matter, get over it and move on.
I've been playing Pvp mmos for a very long time a games shift in balance never ends, theres is no totally balanced game. If your going to let things like that bother you don't ever play pvp games again please.
You said in your intial posts that new players need two years to become good at the game, I disagreed and gave you examples. you disagreed and brought up BoB. what if a player doesnt want anything to do with null sec? BOB is not the be all end all of Eve im sorry to say.
you took Eve way too seriously imo, you seem to get hung up on exploits that CCP missed and balance issues calling it bad service? some people just don't care about that stuff. people make mistakes while you wont let these go, I and may of us do.
Some players are just happy in small ships or a big ship not exactly fit the way BoB deems worthy.
The best part of eve is that it could be played anyway we want Mazty, it gives us a level of freedom that we havent seen since UO.
Pull the balance issue and the exploits all you want, I know its hard for you to believe that some people just dont care.
You bring up CCP charging more for GTC? while your right it has been increased its still in line with other games that are much worse (of course my opinion).
You say Eve is old and and then point to WoW? im sorry but I played WoW and considering Eve ripped me from WoW i consider wow old in comparision.
OH and how did CCP lie to customers again? the ghost training thing? get over it.
im done.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
The answer to that would be...
"For several months now."
But do not take my word for it. Log or create a trial and head to Jita to see for yourself.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
It's because Eve is a Master Level hardcore game that DOESN'T pander to 1-hour-per-week casual gamers.
In Eve, Achievement actually means something you can be Proud of and brag about.
Imo Eve is the new paradigm for MMOG success - instead of dumbing things down, devs should require excellence and the fanbase will grow and rise to the challenge.
the evidence shows your expectations are wrong.
The game is not what you define it to be, or even what you want it to be. Other players enjoy it and it is clearly gaining subscribers and players. For some reason this seems to offend you.
But how can anyone not see things in your particular light?
It is the height of arrogance to say your view of how the game should be played/developed is the only one there is. For most people the so called scandals don't affect them, and those that are affected can either adapt (OMG the speed nerf will kill the game, Oh, the vaga is still a good ship, who would have thought?) or nerdragequit.
Oh, and as has been said before, there is no bad publicity. Complaining loudly gets more people to look at the product, some of these people will then buy it.
*Sigh* No, the evidence shows bugger all, as I've explained due to the fact CCP refuse to release the active subscriptions. As you must be aware of, when the record gets high, everyone logs on their alts. All the high number may mean is the bombardment of net banners has drawn in people to trial accounts.
Oops, looks like I've upset a fanboy
The game is what I define it to be. As someone who prides myself on not being bias, all the flaws I have mentioned exisit. That's not opinion or a debate. It's fact.
The game is unbalanced. Blobwarfe and rook/falcon swarms show this as well as many other ships. If you play eve, you know the ones I mean. Oh, and of course war dec'ing
The storyline is utterly, utterly pointless. You can fly whatever, and fleet with whoever, making the storyline entirely irrelevant.
The levelling system turns into a money grab. To become good, you have to have a set amount of skill points, close to 20 million. As long as you get the standard little boosts, it will take a long, long time to reach this, and with that time comes the cost of subs. Unlike exp based games, there is a set price on being good in Eve. With GT now gone, the level system seems to take and give nothing in return.
Also, due to the levelling system, the game becomes an impossible game of catch up with the veteran players. You can make billions of ISK, but your ship will still get torn apart by theres. Unless your in a blob. Go tactics.
The combat is slow. The math shows this, and the existance of tanking. Unless your in blob warfare, expect a slow fight. This is opinion granted, but I feel that with the money CCP are raking in they could do a hell of a lot more with the combat that would introduce tactics.
Combat is also lifeless. F1 - F5 is the essence of combat. I can't imagine that getting anyone's pulse racing. However, admittedly this ones more of a poor element of the game in my opinion than an outright flaw.
CCP give poor customer care. Now this one I find hard to understand how some people view it. They lied outright to EVERYONE for the reason of removing ghost training. Evidence shows (not supports, shows) that it was a known feature that CCP were well aware of and more than happy to continue. (See the mod comment about how he got bollocked for saying it was being removed a while back). Not to mention the official story completely changed after the inital outcry. If people had to buy their subs from CCP in person, even the fanboys who don't mind being treated like cash cows would have something to say. But because electronic commerce is so impersonal, apparently so is the insult to their intelligence. Go figure how that one works...
Oh yeah, you call it adaptation...
And it's not nerdragequit, it's customer rage at a business.
What is the height of arrogance is to criticise my views on Eve because they don't match yours. I think it's somewhat stunning that you can whine about my comments, but no where have you said why I am wrong for thinking or saying what I do, other then I just am. When you come back with something constructive, such as the elements of the game which overlook all these flaws, then awesome, it's what I'm asking for, not to be hit by the fanboy bat for having a negative view of a game.
As for no bad publicity? Again, can't actually prove that until CCP release there sub count which always has seemed to float around 250k mark. Would like to actually have some hard figures.
@Flummoxed
Last time I checked, eve was just a game. And as eve is all about skillpoints, is it then an acheivement to pay $400 for the required skill points to become good? Then surely even the casual gamer can gain the acheivement of being good by popping on battleclinc, picking a t2 ship to aim for, and paying his subs for the next so many years. Or just pop onto the character bazaar and pick yourself up a titan pilot. Sorted.
As there aren't tactics in eve other then spam ships, I can't see how it's possible to achieve anything in it other then "Woot, (x) skill has just leveled". The autotargeting and bugger all steering pretty much sees to this as well.
Or is it an achievement to participate in MAX Damage, the mother of all battles due to the exceptionally skilled tactic of spamming as many big ships as possible? Just curious as to these acheivements you go on about.
How about a decent MMORPG comes out which doesn't have a cooldown style combat system which feels lifeless, and as its down to timing, you could pretty much train a monkey to do it. In my opinion, pump up morrowind to DX10 and make it 10x the size. That'd be a winner.
Mazty on PSN
What are you talking about? CCP do release active subscription numbers. The subscription totals they release include only active accounts that have been paid for and are released as they pass a milestone or make a big press release. They don't include inactive, lapsed or trial accounts. And based on those subscription numbers, the number of EVE players has steadily increased since launch to a current total of over 250,000. And when they hit 275,000 or 300,000, they'll update that figure.
Granted, the PCU does include trials but there's a limit to how many trials can log in at a time (I think it's either 3000 or 5000). You're trying to suggest that the increase from the old PCU of 40,000 to over 45,000 is due to hoards of trial accounts but that's physically impossible. Also, if you log a trial account in you'll be told via an information popup how many accounts currently logged in are trials. For example, "Currently there are 33738 players on the server and of that 1983 are trial accounts" (taken 5 minutes ago). If you want to know what proportion of those logged in at peak times are trial accounts, go right ahead and check.
I'm sure other people will come and argue with everything else you've said but I will save myself some effort and spare my sanity. You seem to be completely incapable of separating your opinion from fact. You do realise people can disagree with you without being catagorically incorrect, right? Your opinions on the quality of EVE don't magically override the game's success. A lot of people like the game, pay for it and play it. Those people disagree with you and that doesn't mean they're wrong or you're wrong, it just means you don't like EVE. Big whoop, lots of people don't like EVE. But most of them don't waste their time writing essays on a forum about how much they don't like it.
Insert signature that doesn't break the rules here
WoW dude I could have saved myself so much trouble by just checking ur post history. out of ur 30+ posts near all of them are flaming or bitching about Eve.
I had no Idea you were a freaking butt hurt ghost trainer hahahaha!
Jesus christ did u get banned for that PoS exploit also?
no wonder theres no reasoning with you and you can't see hom people dont give a shit about the problems with Eve.
Let it out man keep making these idiot posts about CCP and the big bastards that lied to you and took away ur ghost training advantage.
Ehh maybe you shouldnt cause here all that shit you spew fall on deaf ears, here most of us love Eve.
You picked a forum that thinks Eve is a unique game... hell even the players that dont play it respect it.
What a waste of time, get over it.
Ur bitching on the wrong forum.
How many accounts did you close because of the ghost training thing? 2? 3? 10? how many did you ghost train so u could resell them and make RL money? man thats sad.
QQ more
Im so happy they got rid of that bullshit feature people need to pay for training if you cant afford it get a job!
I need to remember post history next time before I respond to someone, what a waste of words on a hater.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
It's worrying that a father uses the term "Butt hurt" .
Plus its also somewhat disturbing that you seriously have an inability to understand ghost training. You talk as if it was an advantage to some players. Everyone could do it!
The reason so many of my posts are anti-eve is because I say something about eve being not as great as people think because of X or Y, and a get a hail of fanboy illogical, circular arguments, and i'll be damned if i'm going to shy away from retards babbling on about something they clearly don't want to understand.
Accounts were sold for RL money? They wern't. CCP just want more money and so lied to their customers. That's bad business practice, but people would rather warp reality so that it didn't seem that to admit they were giving their cash to a bunch of b******s.
As for getting a job, I'm busy getting an education in the hope that I will never get a job which turns me into forum dwelling eve fanboy.
Mazty on PSN
Nice graph, although what is interesting is that the last subscription anouncement was in April time, around there highest server pop. Now i'd have expected them to release a 275k mark with the 45k population, but it hasn't happened which leads to wonder the actual sub number.
"You seem to be completely incapable of separating your opinion from fact."
How? I try to keep fact and opinion sperate, so where have I gone wrong?
"You do realise people can disagree with you without being catagorically incorrect, right? Your opinions on the quality of EVE don't magically override the game's success. A lot of people like the game, pay for it and play it. Those people disagree with you and that doesn't mean they're wrong or you're wrong, it just means you don't like EVE."
Yeah, admittedly I'm no longer a fan of Eve, but NONE of you have actually said why Eve is good, or how I am wrong, other than I just am. That's liberal talk and at worst, fanboy talk. As I've asked before, with the PR mess ups and the flaws, how come it's increasing? That's not an invitation to smite me under fanboy rage or liberal "your wrong because your criticising my interest" replies, it's a question.
If you look at how things went, I said how come is increasing with the PR mess? To which I had to explain, and was then hit with the absurd idea that GT wasn't a bad PR situation etc etc. Anyone whose taken a look at it knows that CCP was money raking, to argue anything else is rediculous.
I was then told that Eve was charging a standard price (it isn't) for the GTC's and that people should get a job to afford it. I brought up the point it wasnt a standard price and due to the level system, it was exceptionaly expensive.
From there on a was hit by a hail of "no, eves not expensive, its great, stop crying about GT". I then showed how eve infact is full of flaws, and now we're here
Blame fanboys for being woefully arrogant and trying to get me to ssh with the time old "your just wrong" argument.
Mazty on PSN
It's ok, one day when you grow up maybe you will have a nice job with a nice big office that lets you play Eve and hang on the forums in peace in between conference calls and meetings. Having a home office when I don't feel like leaving the house or don't have to travel half way around the country is nice also.
And getting an education is no excuse for not having a job.
You bitching about the money man but don't want to work? "eve costs too much" "eve lied and took my free training away"
Now I wonder if Eve didnt take Ghost training away and never raised the price of GTC would you have made all these negative Eve posts still, nahh probably not cause you could train for free, cause thats all it comes down to for you.
Anyway, I could do what your doing also, I could pick out a couple features I want Eve to improve and bitch and bitch cause noone could challenge me on it. Things like a broken wardec system, sub standard missions, Mining thats mind numbing and bounty system that just doesnt work.
I could pull all these out and make a big long post about how anyone could play the game with these problems. While I may enjoy Eve im not that much of a fanboi that I dont see problems with it.
I think everyones problem with your posts is that your so focused on the negative and never bring up anything positive that you sound like a pure hater.
Ill bring up Eves problems but I don't completely ignore the positive and say Eve sucks this is what you're doing and it's the reason you're recieving this type of reaction from people.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Ok here we go I'll answer you're questions.
"Why is Eve's activity increasing, even though CCP has had a few PR disasters?"
Because these "PR disasters" Haven't really bothered the vast majority of the playerbase. Even if this new achievement was just a few thousand players logging on alts Eves activity has still been pretty steady all year, proving that the "disasters" havent had much effect on the majority of the playerbase.
I'll agree CCP's problems have been pretty bad, removing ghost training was a bit shady but the majority of the playerbase thought this was a good change so It didn't effect numbers at all. CCP itself has stated that only a few hundred accounts closed down. ( was a dev blog on the eve site look for it).
"CCP is a cash grabbing company, they have the highest sub rate, why do people still play?"
I don't know where you live but I live in NYC, when I go to buy my wife her game card for WoW it costs 29.99 plus tax which is around 34-5 bucks. I goto the game shop cause my son likes to come along and I buy him a Wii game once every other month if he has good grades. Now if you check battleclinic Eves 60 day time code costs 34.95, Seems in line with WoW to me.
Even if Eves sub may cost a bit more where you live im living proff that this change doesnt effect everyone.
"Eve is unbalanced and 0.0 blob warfare is nothing but a who has more ships battle, why do people play this game?"
Because most of those balance issues don't effect the majority of the playerbase. Im not going to disagree that the game needs some balancing but not everyone battles it out in 0.0. And the players that do have worked around it by using certain ships to take advantage until the next round of nerfs spring up on us.
"Why do you like the game?"
I happen to enjoy cyber spaceships, I like defending sections of space with friends. I enjoy working around CCP nerfs and was smart enough to join a really big alliance that lets me play the may me and my friends want so we dont have to follow bobs guide lines. I like small gang combat in low sec space on my alt and Faction warfare is actually fun also. I enjoy my indy alt because I find hauling fun while bullshitting on vent with my friends.
Was that ok? I gave you reasons why I like Eve and hopefully answered some of ur questions.
Edit: ill be back later I have some work to do.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
tears of laughter (oh, and I am not sure, 'fanboy' is name-calling yes?)
from what i remember, and this is not a fact, as i can't find a link, trial accounts are not included in the concurrent user statistics, they are also capped. wish i could find that reference. take it as hearsay but consider that every PSU suffers the same error of lots of alts logging is, not affecting the overall trend. Also for sure plenty of banner ads will help the game grow.
your facts are often wrong as well.
shattered crystal does 60 day cards for US$34.95
wow, now there is a fact for you. the game that tens of thousands of people play, is defined by you? oh dear, so laughable.
you really have no credibility, you demonstrate supreme arrogance and fail to allow any other view except that what you say matters. The funniest thing is it doesn't. All the negatives you point out only matter to a few people and majority of players are still having a good time so there is little effect on the growth of the game.
You want a point by point deconstruction of you view that "After several huge PR disasters I'd have expected figures to have decreased significantly, not rise"
Ignored by most players, yep, because it matters to a small part of the client base.
So no it does not affect the games growth.
Known feature. oh dear, is that why you played EvE? for the feature of gaining something in a MMO by not paying for it or being able to play it either?
It was not a feature, it was an exploitable bug that allowed the farming of alts for sale.
Removal of this had the effect of removing a lot of non-subscribed and non-playing accounts, not really going to hinder the PCU a great deal, just lower the number of unused alt accounts.
If, as you have done, say the implementation of stackless I/O and improvement of the lag issues are not part of this expansion as they were progressively rolled out before the expansion date, then yes, it was a light one. But this is the feature of this expansion that i loved and respected for effort it took. Especially because they did progressively roll it out, ironing out the bugs instead of taking credit for an expansion that was full of implementation flaws.
but not exactly a Pr disaster and removing the lag from large fleet battles will help the game expand.
Yep, this was a scandal, but the market has already normalized. The speculation in goods normalized in under a week but there is still a ~10% mark up on some goods but this is clearly not game destroying. In fact it shows how robust the economy actually is.
This issue has little noticeable effect on most players so little effect the games growth.
if this is about the t20 thing then it is something from 2 years ago. So is unlikely to really affect current growth.
Again look at the sub scription count. One of the previous posts has a link to a good graph which shows that CCP hasnt released any sub info since there previous peak back in April. Maybe with alts closing down, mixed with more adverts, server pops going up, but subs are holding steady, may even be decreasing.
Oops, typo. I mean a 60 day GTC, but either way, more expensive then the other MMORPG's including the brand new DX10 ones.
Now quit being pedantic and taking things out of context. If you read the post and the previous/following sentence you'll see that I mean the game is how I define it to be in terms of the flaws I have mentioned exist in the game. Nice how you skipped around that point.
Oh dear. You actually believed the tripe CCP hauled to the masses even after reading the offical story which wasn't slightly altered - it entirely changed. Not to mention the proof that shows ghost training, a term coined up for it to be removed no less, was a feature and not a bug. It wasn't used for farming, and either way, those non-existant farmers would have had to still have payed subs. So how's it being exploited? And then theres the market sales that continue after sub runs out etc.....
Actually how about you pop to the eve forums and actually look at the mammoth post on it, and don't skip the evidence that shows CCP's terrible customer treatment. I'm done arguing this point with people who don't want to see the full picture.
Well considering I left before Quatum Rise was released, how come I was able to "experience" the stackless I/O? Because it wasn't part of the expansion, it was just an upgrade that should have happend reguardless as the lag was dire, especially for a company raking in cash. Many people will agree Quantum Rise was a giant patch, not an expansion. And not like Emp Age was any good either. Yay, factional warfare, tough luck if your in 0.0.
Check up on the forums, some prices for items have doubled, not to mention how much it wil have screwed up 0.0 politics with the trillions of isk worth of extra cash.
If a company has a poor record I would want to know about it rather then presume time heals all and makes a company better & morally upstanding citizens....blah blah blah. If a companys got a bad history, unless theres a change, it'll probably follow that pattern. And CCP has. Apparently anyone who played Eve is a guillible idiot according to CCP with their GT nonsense.
Mazty on PSN
When I "grow up" I sincerly hope I'm not stuck playing virtual spacships. Talking on vent while in an office? Somehow I can't help think but you watch too many internet reviews ...
Getting an education is an excuse for not having a job, hence it's called full time education. Inbetween my 9-5 lectures, not to mention out of hour assignments, when should I get a job? The 8th day of the week maybe?
Either way petty bickering is pointless.
Taking ghost training away was the step that made me hate eve. I'll explain how. With GT, Eve was the online MMORPG that didn't demand the hardcore socially lifeless sterotypical MMO player that other games did. Eve was the MMO for people who didn't want to be stuck behind their desks, decaying into a socially inept state. You could whack on a skill, smash a few ships, blow up a few guys, log off, get slaughtered at the pub, spend a day recovering and all along you didn't have in the back of your mind that you should be doing something on Eve instead, such as grinding exp, to get your moneys worth. And to reward the players for this time, and therefore, cash intensive system, you could carry on levelling to a very limited degree once your sub ran out. This also was a massive insentive for the casual gamer and people with long stretchs abroad with their carers to return to the game, as they had something new to return to. After all, eve isn't the most excsting game and people would burn out after a few months. The GT would act as a break and an insentive to return, to renew peoples interest in it.
But now GT has gone. This means the levelling system is siply cash intensive. Yes, the idea of having a life still is around. But there's now the need in the back of your mind to renew the sub as soon as it runs out, with no insentive to return to the game if you burn out. Instead of an advantage, the training system has just become more reason to buy premade characters to save r/l cash, as you can put an exact fixed price on becoming good in eve. I'm a gamer who wants to be good through skill, not throwing cash at things. May as well open an Eve item shop while theyre at it.
To quote you:
"Things like a broken wardec system, sub standard missions, Mining thats mind numbing and bounty system that just doesnt work. "
I payed £30 for an offline game, resistance 2 to be precise. One off payment. It's multiplayer is lag free, it's perfectly balanced, has tactics and skill gets you very far. All that for £30.
Yet Eve is getting the subs of 250k people and can't even iron out the simple things, such as the broken bounties, or dire missions. Simply put, where the hell is the money going to? CCP don't have any other projects (apart from one, which is the reason for ambulation) to be funding, and reguardless, the payers, are paying for eve, not another game. If eve was bringing out expansions like trinity every 6/9 months that'd be great, but the last two have been terrible!. Emp Age was useless for anyone in 0.0, so most people, and Quatum Rise was a fat patch with no content. All this mixed with the GT is enough for me to go 180 on a game due to the lack of reguard to the customer that CCP is showing. Eve was average over a year ago, but its quickly falling to the side in terms of quality.
As for why you like the game, totally fair enough, makes sense, good reasons, though I'm not paying $35 every 2 months for it.
Mazty on PSN
You can still be a casual player and play Eve, just cause they got rid of Ghost training doesnt stop that, hell im extremely casual, i just turned 30 (going on 60 due to kids) and I havent found not being able to train while my sub was inactive a problem.
Actually I think the game is better for it since it cut the huge amount of Alts people had by a good amount.
Personally I feel the Faction warfare patch to be a great addition sure it doesn't help 0.0 players out but it does something that Eve couldn't offer before, a way for a noob to get into decent sized battles without being in 0.0. thats a good thing imo. And while I agree QR wasnt the best patch the certificate system that alot of vets laugh at has helped alot of newer players get into the game. And im sure you will agree the lag fix is nice.
Now you ask what CCP has been doing? why havent they created more shit for us to play with or balanced things better? during evefest they stated they have pulled all resources back to eve. So i guess that World of darkness project and the unnamed new CCP Fps actually took some resources from eves dev cycle (which i think is lame).
With all of CCP and Eves problems imo the game is still one of the better MMOs on the market, hell look at the sad state the whole mmo genre is in. We havent had a decent sandbox game since SWG? hell UO? and you're wondering why people still play the game.
Once Eve has real competition they will need to really get thier ass in gear cause mistakes like they've made will hurt them, but right now since theres nothing to play other then eve the subs havent fallen and generally people are happy with the game.
Edit: oh and to respond to ur first few lines, Bro being an adult playing cyber space ships on my free time or in my home office is alot better then what most adults in my field do to relieve stress, (drugs, booze, hookers). You have no Idea how stressful or hardcore the business scene is with our economy the way it is.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
finally, you clearly state why you take exception to anyone who likes eve.
I can see how you enjoyed gain in eve without paying for it. The thing is it was very easy to start a 3 week trial, (Caldari Actura) put in a full set of +3 implants, get all the learning and advanced learning skills done, then do a month on a month of for a few months and have a very worthwhile industry/mining/covert ops/etc alt. This worked to the macro miners favor as well as being a mini career as you can sell characters for isk.
I am glad alts are harder to make now. Admittedly i did benefit from it, but now i am simply training an alt up on my main character, and it is still pretty easy.
Also some there still are some places where you can gain in the isk grind while not subscribing. Trading will let you put items on the market with high mark ups where there is low trade volumes, over months, especially if you spread your investment of multiple product lines, you will reap the isk. Then the is research points which still accumulate while not subscribed.
Oh, and if you can tell me which item is still doubled in price, that would be great cos there is money to be made undercuting that grossly inflated item.
Best thing to do is completely ignore Matzy. He has such an inherent dislike of the game that he cannot discuss it rationally. Instead resorts to ficticious facts that only suit his side of the story. Most of his complaints are about changes that have made the game better.
Matzy is just an example of the type of troll who should just be ignored. Most of what he says is either a gross distortion of rumours or a bit of truth with a big exaduated white lie.
On the main topic tho its nice to see that not all MMO's are failing and that WoW isant the only MMo thats growing at a steady rate.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
How? Please explain that. After playing eve for a while I know the flaws in it, and personally, I wouldn't pay a monthly sub for a game with them in. So instead of branding me a troll and a lier, how about you say how I'm warping truth, or is it the reason that what I'm pointing out is valid, and so you dislike it?
Mazty on PSN
What is it with you/ a lot of eve fans and taking personal offense at anyone who doesn't like the game? I dislike Eve, not the players, let's get that straight.
The flaw with your character farming is that:
1)All characters would have to be active with subscriptions, meaning CCP loose out on nothing
2)You say it's good alts are harder to make. I'm going to pressume your not a hardcore 0.0 pilot as you'd understand the necessity for having several alts at any one time.
As for gaining isk while not subscribed, well the forums and myself see that as a massive sign that CCP only took away GT for extra cash, not to help the eve universe in any way. As for that item, it's on the forum post about the market issues.
Metalhead980 came up with some really good reasons for why Eve is a good mmorpg and why it's probably still growing - it's sandbox and a lot of the new expansions, while hollow for a majority of players, makes the game more welcoming for new players. Considering how a lot of games are WoW clones in one way or another, I guess I can see why it'd seem appealing.
Though why I no longer am intrested in eve (other than the given points above), even through the good points like fleet battles (the size is the selling point, not the blob tactics) and sandbox gameplay, is that when I started playing, November 2007, trinity was on it's way and it looked like Eve was set to go on to become bigger and better. However once trinity had passed and it was on to Emp Age, the game seemed to stagnate. It wasn't becoming deeper, nor where the somewhat massive flaws being fixed. Then when GT kicked in with the increase in sub price, the "your all idiots, give me cash, no more GT for you" incident and the features of QR where released, I realised that Eve wasn't going anywhere quickly. From looking like a revlutionary game it had done a 180 to become a money grabbing sub average game, with a hefty price tag. I was out in 0.0 with BoB, was able to fly logistics pretty much perfectly as well as recon, and was very close to flying Command ships well, and it didnt seem worth the price by a long shot, or that it was going anywhere quickly. This may be a reason why eves not going over the 250,000 sub mark maybe, it has it's hardcore players, but everyone else gets bored quickly of it and their illusions of greatness that is eve quickly evaporate.
Though if eve does pull its act togther and really puts all the cash back into the game, I would still be open for having another try at it, but only when it becomes a game that reflects the cost of it. As ive previously said, offline games at the moment are much cheaper and a better quality than eve, and most mmorpgs for that matter.
@Ozmodan
Hows that for discussing it rationally? Yet you have not once said why it is good & adding to that the appeal to long term players.
Mazty on PSN
It no proof in any direction of ccp releasing sub count data after April or not.
If you check press releases they say nearly 250k subscribers up until November while the latest one says 250k.
So it does look like subscriptions have stagnated slightly but they are still increasing.
We should also expect a huge influx of new players in late spring when Eve will start to be sold in stores. How many of those new players will keep playing remains to be seen.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
I think Mazty is just an attention seeker.
I've played a good few MMOs and some of them were truly terrible, I'm sure you all have. But hey, if you decide you don' t like a game, do you still hang around in the associated forums slagging it off? I know I don't, I wipe it from my PC and forget about it totally. I really couldn't care less about a game that fails for me.
Hence I think Mazty has some other problem otherwise, if he hates the game so much, why is he posting such endless streams of vitriol?
I think all of us who play Eve have criticisms of aspects of interface/gameplay/storyline or whatever but it's far more interesting to read and discuss constructive criticism with ideas for improvement than a slagfest...
edit: typos
Please read the entire post. I asked a valid question to begin with and came across a lot of fanboy criticism. I'm not one for standing down to circular logic and arrogance, hence the numerous posts, numerous but rational & from a point of experience, not ignorace.
Mazty on PSN