Originally posted by xzyax Originally posted by nathanpinard Well Aventurine definitely failed their own expectations, but it's expected in a hard business like MMO's. Most of the "promises" were written years before they got into the nitty gritty stuff. The pre-orders are disappointing, but it makes sense. People that pay, probably should have a priority in getting a slot for the open beta (also called a trial) They made a few mistakes on how they worded things, but still...the game WILL come out. And really the delay isn't that bad. Hopefully they didn't underestimate that.
They just flushed down the toilet the main card they had left in their hand... integrity. That is gone now... they no longer get to play that card.
Actually in terms of their try before you buy philosophy they haven't broken that yet. They are allowing people to try the game before they even preorder it. They just can't take in everyone on the 22nd and they don't think they can take on everyone on the 25th of February.
They should offer an on going free trial at launch but that doesn't make sense because they probably can't take in everyone who would even be willing to pay. This part makes it sound like a scam but I won't be concerned about this unless people joining the beta after the 22nd are under NDA.
I do not care what will happen in regards to the trial and pre-orders. Aventurine went back on their word and now, in my opinion, cannot be trusted for anything they said or promised. This is a slap in the face to gamers and smells just like Age of Conan, Vanguard, Dark and Light among others.
If SOE had posted something like this, everyone would be criticizing them full-force. Just because it is Aventurine, we are supposed to cut them some slack and forgive them for going back on promises? My response is that they lied and are now in the same company as the aforementioned companies.
No one is asking you to think otherwise. I think you are a bit of a drama queen though personally. You believed something that a PR person said for a game, and then was offended when they couldn't deliver. It was not even a pre meditated lie. Tasos was simply an idiot. Your opinion though and I respect that.
Drama queen? Try more like ethics in business. And why say that to me? Every damn fanboi in these forums believed it a thousand times more than I did. I just call it as I see it and its sad to see people try to defend a lying company. (For example, I am not nor will I ever play a SOE game again because of the recent RMT stuff as it relates to Smed's "promises" - just took me longer to realize that SOE will say anything to get people to sub than others)
And if you think I am a drama queen because I am upset that a company lied to the general public and did a 180 on a promise they made, then fine. Add to that, their justification for their change of course is too simple.
Seriously, what happens if 100k people preorder? Will they honor those pre-orders if they can only have 1-2 servers? Pre-order is a guarantee and the way I see it, there is no way Aventurine (and I have no confidence that Aventurine) can honor any pre-order agreement. Still people defend them and act as if it does not matter because they are new or a startup company. Hell, they are a business and their job is to make money and this latest change of direction only conforms that they will do what they need to make money. Gamers come second to them, money first.
I guess I just don't think of a PR person as the company, and I know that they all lie. Even if they don't mean to lie they do. They were stupid to set a date. I think Tasos has handled this pretty poorly, but I just got the overall feeling you were being a bit dramatic. This is pretty common fair for almost every gaming company when it comes to MMORPG's across the board. I think Blizzard is the only one to ever go the route of not being idiots and sticking to 'when it's ready.'
I agree with most of your points. I see where you are coming from, and I respect your decision. I just feel it's a bit dramatic. Hell 99% of these boards and DF's board, and the DF channel are so overly dramatic right now that I feel like i'm in the middle of a Beverly Hills High School. I feel like we aren't talking about an unreleased game, but instead what she said to her about him and then what he did to her because of what she said omg.
Yeah, if I am a bit over-dramtic, I apologize. What I do not understand is that I have been saying for the last few weeks now that there is no way they could get all the admin-related stuff ready and that was confirmed today. And what I really do not get, is that the issues and problems that were mentioned in the announcement can not happen over-night - they (Aventurine) must have know for a while now that this wasn't going to happen. And to wait to the last minute (1 week before "launch") is really bad business practice and, as a potential customer, I feel lied too and insulted more than anything.
BINGO!
Tasos said on Dec. 4th that DarkFall was READY to launch!
Obviously that is now exposed as a lie. How many more times does he have to be caught not telling anything resembling the truth before people start to figure out that he is NOT a genuine and trust-worthy person?
Well Aventurine definitely failed their own expectations, but it's expected in a hard business like MMO's. Most of the "promises" were written years before they got into the nitty gritty stuff.
The pre-orders are disappointing, but it makes sense. People that pay, probably should have a priority in getting a slot for the open beta (also called a trial)
They made a few mistakes on how they worded things, but still...the game WILL come out. And really the delay isn't that bad.
Hopefully they didn't underestimate that.
They just flushed down the toilet the main card they had left in their hand... integrity.
That is gone now... they no longer get to play that card.
Actually in terms of their try before you buy philosophy they haven't broken that yet. They are allowing people to try the game before they even preorder it. They just can't take in everyone on the 22nd and they don't think they can take on everyone on the 25th of February.
They should offer an on going free trial at launch but that doesn't make sense because they probably can't take in everyone who would even be willing to pay. This part makes it sound like a scam but I won't be concerned about this unless people joining the beta after the 22nd are under NDA.
Yup.
That is going to be the other shoe to drop.
Where will the NDA stand come the 22nd.
IF the NDA is still firmly in place on the 22nd... I would hope that EVERYONE sees that a big RED FLAG!
Well Aventurine definitely failed their own expectations, but it's expected in a hard business like MMO's. Most of the "promises" were written years before they got into the nitty gritty stuff.
The pre-orders are disappointing, but it makes sense. People that pay, probably should have a priority in getting a slot for the open beta (also called a trial)
They made a few mistakes on how they worded things, but still...the game WILL come out. And really the delay isn't that bad.
Hopefully they didn't underestimate that.
They just flushed down the toilet the main card they had left in their hand... integrity.
That is gone now... they no longer get to play that card.
Actually in terms of their try before you buy philosophy they haven't broken that yet. They are allowing people to try the game before they even preorder it. They just can't take in everyone on the 22nd and they don't think they can take on everyone on the 25th of February.
They should offer an on going free trial at launch but that doesn't make sense because they probably can't take in everyone who would even be willing to pay. This part makes it sound like a scam but I won't be concerned about this unless people joining the beta after the 22nd are under NDA.
Yup.
That is going to be the other shoe to drop.
Where will the NDA stand come the 22nd.
IF the NDA is still firmly in place on the 22nd... I would hope that EVERYONE sees that a big RED FLAG!
It depends, is the NDA for closed beta still up? I dont care.
Is there a NDA to the players who gets to do the trial? ....holy crap
A few points of interest:
* Most optimists/fanbois/nonhaters are NOT defending that tasos/aventurine screwed up on alot of statements. They are defending Tasos/aventurine from the haters who makes a dragon out of a feather. The gameplan is changed, reasons for it has been stated, Tasos said they cant let everyone in trial - there just is'nt room. Get over it, its changed.
Question is: What do you think of there new gameplan? (If its truly followed, assume it is - we can argue all day long what we believe will happen with it.)
- Pre-orders does not effect who gets into open beta
- Aventurine trying to let ppl try the game before pre order/buy, so they better know how many will truly be playing
- Aventurine doing there launch very seriously, to avoid previous failures.
* Many haters are taking any form of non-hate post as a Tasos-has-done-nothing-wrong-post, whats up with that.
* For gods sake, Tasos saying the game is feuture complete and ready for launch doesnt neccesarily have to mean it can be launched any second. It could and probably did mean that the Game itself was so playable that it was in a state most game is when they are released. Cant believe most posters here, your as lame as the ones your bashing saying the fanbois twist Tasos words around so they sound better, well your doing the same frickin thing. Learn to comprehend the meanings...
FagerCraft - Feeding the trolls on mmorpg.com since 2005.
AC2,AO,D&L,Lotro,VsoH,SWG,Uo,HGL,Drunners,CoH,GW,Potbs,PWI Eq2,Dofus,WoW,WWIIO,Ryzom,Planetside,EvE,TR,DDO,RFonline,FOM,VC,..etc blabla also hobbies....staring at loadingbars
It depends, is the NDA for closed beta still up? I dont care. Is there a NDA to the players who gets to do the trial? ....holy crap
A few points of interest: * Most optimists/fanbois/nonhaters are NOT defending that tasos/aventurine screwed up on alot of statements. They are defending Tasos/aventurine from the haters who makes a dragon out of a feather. The gameplan is changed, reasons for it has been stated, Tasos said they cant let everyone in trial - there just is'nt room. Get over it, its changed. Question is: What do you think of there new gameplan? (If its truly followed, assume it is - we can argue all day long what we believe will happen with it.)
- Pre-orders does not effect who gets into open beta
- Aventurine trying to let ppl try the game before pre order/buy, so they better know how many will truly be playing
- Aventurine doing there launch very seriously, to avoid previous failures.
* Many haters are taking any form of non-hate post as a Tasos-has-done-nothing-wrong-post, whats up with that.
* For gods sake, Tasos saying the game is feuture complete and ready for launch doesnt neccesarily have to mean it can be launched any second. It could and probably did mean that the Game itself was so playable that it was in a state most game is when they are released. Cant believe most posters here, your as lame as the ones your bashing saying the fanbois twist Tasos words around so they sound better, well your doing the same frickin thing. Learn to comprehend the meanings...
So basically you are saying that now that some of the critics have been vindicated they should use restraint. Your saying this at the same time that the fanbois have been nothing but drama queens towards anyone even questioning the game a little bit.
Do you not see the hypocrisy here? If the game released flawlessly as intended the fanbois would have been relentless in heckling critics. Many on the main boards are still posting like this is all part of a master plan.
When an owner of the company making the game says it could be released "today" that DOES imply that the game could launch that DAY! What is up with all the revisionists and apologists for Tasos. He is an arrogant SOB and has come off that way in every journal/QA he has ever done. You don't get to be arrogant without reprocussion unless you can back up what you say... he clearly has not and is reaping what HE has started.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Comments
That is gone now... they no longer get to play that card.
Actually in terms of their try before you buy philosophy they haven't broken that yet. They are allowing people to try the game before they even preorder it. They just can't take in everyone on the 22nd and they don't think they can take on everyone on the 25th of February.
They should offer an on going free trial at launch but that doesn't make sense because they probably can't take in everyone who would even be willing to pay. This part makes it sound like a scam but I won't be concerned about this unless people joining the beta after the 22nd are under NDA.
No one is asking you to think otherwise. I think you are a bit of a drama queen though personally. You believed something that a PR person said for a game, and then was offended when they couldn't deliver. It was not even a pre meditated lie. Tasos was simply an idiot. Your opinion though and I respect that.
Drama queen? Try more like ethics in business. And why say that to me? Every damn fanboi in these forums believed it a thousand times more than I did. I just call it as I see it and its sad to see people try to defend a lying company. (For example, I am not nor will I ever play a SOE game again because of the recent RMT stuff as it relates to Smed's "promises" - just took me longer to realize that SOE will say anything to get people to sub than others)
And if you think I am a drama queen because I am upset that a company lied to the general public and did a 180 on a promise they made, then fine. Add to that, their justification for their change of course is too simple.
Seriously, what happens if 100k people preorder? Will they honor those pre-orders if they can only have 1-2 servers? Pre-order is a guarantee and the way I see it, there is no way Aventurine (and I have no confidence that Aventurine) can honor any pre-order agreement. Still people defend them and act as if it does not matter because they are new or a startup company. Hell, they are a business and their job is to make money and this latest change of direction only conforms that they will do what they need to make money. Gamers come second to them, money first.
I guess I just don't think of a PR person as the company, and I know that they all lie. Even if they don't mean to lie they do. They were stupid to set a date. I think Tasos has handled this pretty poorly, but I just got the overall feeling you were being a bit dramatic. This is pretty common fair for almost every gaming company when it comes to MMORPG's across the board. I think Blizzard is the only one to ever go the route of not being idiots and sticking to 'when it's ready.'
I agree with most of your points. I see where you are coming from, and I respect your decision. I just feel it's a bit dramatic. Hell 99% of these boards and DF's board, and the DF channel are so overly dramatic right now that I feel like i'm in the middle of a Beverly Hills High School. I feel like we aren't talking about an unreleased game, but instead what she said to her about him and then what he did to her because of what she said omg.
Yeah, if I am a bit over-dramtic, I apologize. What I do not understand is that I have been saying for the last few weeks now that there is no way they could get all the admin-related stuff ready and that was confirmed today. And what I really do not get, is that the issues and problems that were mentioned in the announcement can not happen over-night - they (Aventurine) must have know for a while now that this wasn't going to happen. And to wait to the last minute (1 week before "launch") is really bad business practice and, as a potential customer, I feel lied too and insulted more than anything.
BINGO!
Tasos said on Dec. 4th that DarkFall was READY to launch!
Obviously that is now exposed as a lie. How many more times does he have to be caught not telling anything resembling the truth before people start to figure out that he is NOT a genuine and trust-worthy person?
They just flushed down the toilet the main card they had left in their hand... integrity.
That is gone now... they no longer get to play that card.
Actually in terms of their try before you buy philosophy they haven't broken that yet. They are allowing people to try the game before they even preorder it. They just can't take in everyone on the 22nd and they don't think they can take on everyone on the 25th of February.
They should offer an on going free trial at launch but that doesn't make sense because they probably can't take in everyone who would even be willing to pay. This part makes it sound like a scam but I won't be concerned about this unless people joining the beta after the 22nd are under NDA.
Yup.
That is going to be the other shoe to drop.
Where will the NDA stand come the 22nd.
IF the NDA is still firmly in place on the 22nd... I would hope that EVERYONE sees that a big RED FLAG!
They just flushed down the toilet the main card they had left in their hand... integrity.
That is gone now... they no longer get to play that card.
Actually in terms of their try before you buy philosophy they haven't broken that yet. They are allowing people to try the game before they even preorder it. They just can't take in everyone on the 22nd and they don't think they can take on everyone on the 25th of February.
They should offer an on going free trial at launch but that doesn't make sense because they probably can't take in everyone who would even be willing to pay. This part makes it sound like a scam but I won't be concerned about this unless people joining the beta after the 22nd are under NDA.
Yup.
That is going to be the other shoe to drop.
Where will the NDA stand come the 22nd.
IF the NDA is still firmly in place on the 22nd... I would hope that EVERYONE sees that a big RED FLAG!
It depends, is the NDA for closed beta still up? I dont care.
Is there a NDA to the players who gets to do the trial? ....holy crap
A few points of interest:
* Most optimists/fanbois/nonhaters are NOT defending that tasos/aventurine screwed up on alot of statements. They are defending Tasos/aventurine from the haters who makes a dragon out of a feather. The gameplan is changed, reasons for it has been stated, Tasos said they cant let everyone in trial - there just is'nt room. Get over it, its changed.
Question is: What do you think of there new gameplan? (If its truly followed, assume it is - we can argue all day long what we believe will happen with it.)
- Pre-orders does not effect who gets into open beta
- Aventurine trying to let ppl try the game before pre order/buy, so they better know how many will truly be playing
- Aventurine doing there launch very seriously, to avoid previous failures.
* Many haters are taking any form of non-hate post as a Tasos-has-done-nothing-wrong-post, whats up with that.
* For gods sake, Tasos saying the game is feuture complete and ready for launch doesnt neccesarily have to mean it can be launched any second. It could and probably did mean that the Game itself was so playable that it was in a state most game is when they are released. Cant believe most posters here, your as lame as the ones your bashing saying the fanbois twist Tasos words around so they sound better, well your doing the same frickin thing. Learn to comprehend the meanings...
FagerCraft - Feeding the trolls on mmorpg.com since 2005.
Dark and Light!
mark my words, been there done that
____________________
It`s alright
AC2,AO,D&L,Lotro,VsoH,SWG,Uo,HGL,Drunners,CoH,GW,Potbs,PWI
Eq2,Dofus,WoW,WWIIO,Ryzom,Planetside,EvE,TR,DDO,RFonline,FOM,VC,..etc blabla
also hobbies....staring at loadingbars
So basically you are saying that now that some of the critics have been vindicated they should use restraint. Your saying this at the same time that the fanbois have been nothing but drama queens towards anyone even questioning the game a little bit.
Do you not see the hypocrisy here? If the game released flawlessly as intended the fanbois would have been relentless in heckling critics. Many on the main boards are still posting like this is all part of a master plan.
When an owner of the company making the game says it could be released "today" that DOES imply that the game could launch that DAY! What is up with all the revisionists and apologists for Tasos. He is an arrogant SOB and has come off that way in every journal/QA he has ever done. You don't get to be arrogant without reprocussion unless you can back up what you say... he clearly has not and is reaping what HE has started.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.