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People need to quit saying "the games in alpha/beta, dont judge it"
ramadin
Member Posts: 1,304
Im so sick of hearing this from people. For example, WoW stress test and the E3 demo of Guild Wars. Yes its true the games are still in development, but guess what... DONT PUT OUT A SHITTY GAME FOR PEOPLE TO PLAY WHEN THATS WHAT IS GOING TO MAKE THEM BUY IT OR NOT AT RETAIL.
Ppl say, "oh its not finished yet thats why this sucks or thats not implemented yet". Well wtf, dont let me try a game to see if I like it when its only 40% finished. Its like saying "here test drive this brand new 2005 Mercedez, sure it only has 2 wheels and no seats, but take it for a spin and let us know if you want one."
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Comments
They aren't letting you play it to see if you like it. They are simulating end user stress test. Open betas are to stress the servers and see what kinf od optimizations and how many of what equipment etc.
"Feel free to hate me, but hate me for the right reasons."
"Your still ignorant if you believe the first thing you see when the blindfold is removed."
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I'll give you that the E3fEE of GW was a preview for people to get a perception of the game so they could consider purchaseing it, but it was more of a publicity stunt to try and get any type of following. Most of the time when you try out a game that is in alpha/beta it is for a reason, i.e. test stability, compatability, server loads, server integrity, etc... Do you really think that a company wants people play a half built game? When they let you play a half finished game it is to test something not for you to check it out and see if you like it. Like the Stress Test for WoW, it was just that... a stress test. Yes they gave away a bunch of accounts through file planet, but that was for many reasons which if you couldn't see well then... you would be makeing a topic about this then wouldn't you... reasons: publicity, putting the problem of bandwidth and server allocation for thousands of temporary testers off on someone else, etc...
Testing.
Your scathing wit and daring insight into the turbulent political crags of the internet are shining beacons of truth and purity for the slight remaining masses of visionless hypocriticial sheep who bleat at the thought of your glory
Your scathing wit and daring insight into the turbulent political crags of the internet are shining beacons of truth and purity for the slight remaining masses of visionless hypocriticial sheep who bleat at the thought of your glory
WoW stress I think was the real deal. It was a finished project. With needing a few tweaks.
Guildwars on the other hand. It gives you an idea. But its lacking tons of content.
They both give you an idea. You can fairly judge it. With a stress test even giving a more credible case.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didnt exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
They ARE letting you play to see if you like it, thats not their primary goal but still. They should at least be 95% done with the programming BEFORE the open beta, not still missing huge parts of the game like GW is. They have to know that those 100,000's of people are going to base whether or not they purchase it on that stress test or open beta. First impressions are lasting impressions my friends. Dont kid yourselves.
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"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didnt exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Ever hear of bait?
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I would say that WoW was close to 90% done when the stress test went live, some would argue more or less that is why I say close, I would also be willing to bet that GW is close to that figure as well and that is mainly because it's focus really isn't upon PvE it's more PvP. So because of that focus they have spent more time in the areas that pertain to that style such as balance and what not. My impressions upon both games were fine because I didn't over hype for myself and as well I tried to look through all the smoke that is put out there that this or that is revolutionary or the greatest thing since sliced bread. It is mearly a predeterminded perception of what it is sometimes that decideds your judgement.
Your scathing wit and daring insight into the turbulent political crags of the internet are shining beacons of truth and purity for the slight remaining masses of visionless hypocriticial sheep who bleat at the thought of your glory
Your scathing wit and daring insight into the turbulent political crags of the internet are shining beacons of truth and purity for the slight remaining masses of visionless hypocriticial sheep who bleat at the thought of your glory
Ok if I can't say "the games in alpha/beta, dont judge it" then I will say: Judge it based on the idea behind the game and how the diffrent systems are supposed to work. Don't take into account lack of content (Dont' need much content to beta test a game) messed up bugs and systems that doesn't work.
But I doubt you could do that, moast professtional rewiers can't.
And regarding Gw I would think the main programming part and getting all the systems to work together is moastly done. And the idea is that if they give ppl a small taste they will want more... You know you can get bored with any game if you play it to long, esp with there are a lot of bugs lag etc.... Try playing your favorite game for a straight 12+ hour period and you will see what I mean.
Cyan
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i agree with the sentiment in the original post. People can get a sense of the game through playing early versions of it, and they very likely will have the same opinion of that game at release. I think apologists for a game will use the excuse your only playing early versions of it and not to judge it, because they want everyone to like it which isnt going to happen. I dont think it takes much to find out if a game is fun, either it captures you or it doesnt.
So yeah, everyone knows something like Guildwars preview is an early version of their game. Doesnt mean people cant judge it with that in mind.
I think that there are 3 things one must consider when hearing "IT's in BETA don't judge it!".
1) What stage of BETA it is in.
2) Estimated time to release date.
3) How far the fanboy has his head up the dev's ass.
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1) Early alpha, early beta - 6+ months from release. It's ok for there to be major game-stopping bugs at this point. This is a "True" beta, you are there to find and report bugs so they can be fixed. Balance and graphics can come later.
2) 6 months the bugs need to be mostly ironed out. No show-stoppers. 4 months they need to have the graphics in place. 3 months they need to start balanceing hardcore.
3) Even if you aren't playing it, haveing followed a game for 3 years represents a 'significant time investment' especially for a young immature personage. Just as the (handful) of adults will hold onto a stock as it sinks into penny-stock land, there are quite a few young men who follow these games for 3+ years hearing from the devs about how it's going to be the perfect MMORPG....When it comes up smelling like feces they just refuse to belive it. To ackonaldage that their game sucks would be to 'throw away' those 3+ years of time investment and to admit that they were wrong and made a huge mistake. Many young immature people are not emotionally capable of doing this.
Thus they will hype the game, make excuses for the devs, ectera ectera. There is an endless supply of young idiots in the world, plenty for every game to have it's fair share.(See the thread on the 1st page about Ryzom. All the good stuff is 'comeing soon' and that comment about the quests being on-par with other MMORPGs is laughable.)
Myth 1: During an Open Beta you are there to TEST the game.
You are _NOT_ there to test the game. An open beta is a marketing ploy exactly the same way a free trial is. The open beta IS your free trial. You are there to play the game and decide weather you want to buy it or not.
In some limited circumstances a devloper may not be able to get enough people to sign up for a closed beta test so they have an open beta test well before release to find the bugs. This usually indicated a piss-poor marketing effort, which in turn indicated a piss-poor management, which will probaly lead to a piss-poor game.
A beta gives information about the game, it can give a good impression about a game but nothing more then that.
Why ? because a beta is an incomplete game and because you are playing for free. If you were to review a restaurant, what is fair ? going to the kitchen and taste non complete meals and write your review or go with friends order different meals, taste them and review them...
If the kitchen opened up a taste taste event, which is more along the lines of a 'preview event', then hell yeah, they deserve to be critiqued. Anything opened up to the public will be critiqued, and the Dev's or any restaurant knows this.
If your a restaurant, you dont start giving half-cooked meals you know taste like crap to your customers. Niether do dev's i hope...
Ah finally someone who gets it. Thank you.
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Dude, any company that lets you into an Alpha, and/or Beta test just to see if you like it, is defeating the purpose of alphas and betas. They are NOT done for the players in them to see if they like the game. They are done to t-e-s-t test the game. They are done to find bugs, test algorythams, test the hardware - both user and serverside, and more.
The time for when you and other gamers see if you like the game is - after release.
Your illustration with the car would be more accurate if you stop and think about WHEN the test driving magazines get to test the new Mercedes, and other cars. They test them as soon as the cars are released. The actual company, including Mercedes, have in house testers who test he car when it has 1 seat, no bumpers, no radio, no a/c, no heating, no cd player, etc... aka the alpha and beta test. They test specific systems in the Mercedes - how well the fuel injection settings work, how the torque settings work, etc.. etc... aka finding bugs to make the released car as nice as possible.
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Since I feel alot of this is geared towards GW since their Event just ended I'd like add a little something.
People complain alot about not enough content, but ever thought that maybe they don't have all that content for a reason? I seen accouple zone portals in GW that would loop you right back through it, making you end up where you "zoned" in. I bet anything GW is pretty close to finish as well and they are just doing the wise thing and not letting you explore every nook and cranny. This would lead to a more fair playing field for those that could not test it when the game goes live.
The reason for the event? I think it was a stress test. Friday or Saturday night the lag got really bad and they worked to fix it almost right away.
Hrmm... I forgot why I'm posting... I guess I'll end it here....
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These are just my opinions, please direct your opinions of my opinions to your mama, not me and the other readers.
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i would think the only test phase you could really judge a game from would be Open Beta......when a game is in Open Beta they are VERY VERY close to being done and a lot can be learn by testing it.
i DO NOT think that you can honestly judge a game in Alpha........Alpha is such a raw phase and many things change fast...
well at lest in know that is the way with FreeWorld.....we have a HUGE way to go still but if you where in one of our early tests and then tested it now......its like 2 different games.
Anyone who thinks they have open betas and stress-tests to actually TEST needs to pickup and at least smell a marketing book.
Ive been in more betas then I can actually count, from the days back when they actually DID mean something to now when they are merely marketing ploys.
Alpha/closed serves a purpose still somewhat, especially for the smaller games, but games like eq and WoW and the like have internal testers and QA people enough so as to not having to test at all in public should they wish. They have such large staffs that friends and family alone could easily fill any number of slots.
One thing that REALLY bugs me are the people that say, (these are usually the fanbois), "You cant judge NOW, they are like KEEPING 50% of the game for themself, they have a WHOLE other version to be released, soon." Because that is just ignorant, at best.
But one should also realise that one can not tell what to say or think or do, if they want to judge then they WILL judge, if they want to keep the hope then that they will.
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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To bad WoW isn't complete yet, but eh that's what patches are for. So paying customers can pay and help the Devs try to finish a game.
I think this review of Saga of Ryzom http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/news/gameID/36/showArticle/2422 sums up the current state of mmorpgs nicely.
It is worrying that game companies think they can release a sub-standard game, of which there are many, and expect players to pay for it.
Of course how do you know you like a game until you actual play it.
IMHO the attitude of "release now, patch when we feel like it" can't be continued as some companies are finding out to heavy cost and some mmorpgs late in development have been cancelled. If some games are getting away with being sub-standard that sends out a damaging signal.
If you look at games rated highly on this site most of them are quite old, does that mean the quality has gone down lately, possibly.
I hope that EQ2 and WoW breath new life and raises the bar because I think it will be healthy for future titles.
The problems of non-complete game is not new at all.
The older games have higher rating because they had the time to fix all the major issus and add a lot of content to the game.
Some people are just whining for nothing.... for exemple, people whinning about ryzom being incomplete : They didnt pay for the first month (lots of issus were fixed in the first month), they gave an additionnal 1 week free, so your playing for free until arround patch 1, that will add some content (invasion, quest, encyclopedia...). So people are whinning because the game is buggy when they actually play for free...
Its usual and "normal" to have incomplete games wich such lvl of complexity. Of course the biggest cie have more budget so they can deliver a more complete product (ie Blizzard). But the small names need money to keep going, thats when they decide to go gold. Personally i prefer having more choice and games that will get better with time then only 2-3 games that are fine at release but cant satisfy all gamers.
Except EQ2 is releasing prematurely, and WoW, while solid, will still be missing some things when it goes live.
Many of the less big time games like Darkfall Online, and Pirates of the Burning Sea, will have to cut corners to make back enough money to go on, or they'll end up canceled.
Vanguard, D&D Online, and MEO are the next major MMOG's that will coming out. Vanguard bears watching, but I think that D&DO, and MEO will end up suffering from what SWG had, where the game just doesn't mesh with 30 odd years of fans built up idea of what the game, and world should be like. Poor Turbine's gonna get raked over the coals for just about everything in those games.