Personally I use them all the time. If i want to read, I read novels, not quest text.
Then why not just open Excel and play on that? Why play RPGs?
Anyways, on topic, I believe that the websites have their uses. On huge content games such as EvE, it can get frustrating for players to figure everything out on their own, at which point the game doesnt stay a game anymore. There the websites help.
And you play games for your own satisfaction, atleast I do, so I dont care how long it takes for me to do a mission or how many people have done it before me. If I do it the proper way, it was my journey, my satisfaction, my enjoyment.
Hmm .. i can't fireball hordes and hordes of mob in excel, can I?
And btw, i do play with excel to optimize my toon.
After quitting EverQuest, I have never played an MMORPG without feeling forced to use a website to get through quests or to obtain reagents for item creation. If you do not use this easily accessible knowledge you will almost always fall behind in level and in equipment compared to the average gamer. At times I am constantly alt-tabbing to mmodb, allakhazam, wiki.game and so forth. It ruins the game experience in my opinion. The one thing that many people along with myself miss about EQ were the unexplored zones, hidden quests, rare weapons and armor. This doesnt exist anymore when everything is just a few clicks and keys away. How many people actually read quests anymore? Most people I see in game running around turning in quests only stand at the NPC for 1-3 seconds, making it obvious they already know what to do or are googling the sequence of events. How do you all feel about this?
Then you fall behind. Theres no point in being succsessful. Have fun if a wiki ruins your mmorpg gaming experience then play how you want to. Still i see your point, once i found out about wikis and i use them sometimes, but still if you dislike such information then ignore it. You don't have to i mean your character is your character, not Paladinboi22s' character.
"i have a lvl 26 maplestory warrior lvl 9 asda story archer and a adventure quest mage lvl 15 and my xfire is my bro's"
Personally I use them all the time. If i want to read, I read novels, not quest text.
Then why not just open Excel and play on that? Why play RPGs?
Anyways, on topic, I believe that the websites have their uses. On huge content games such as EvE, it can get frustrating for players to figure everything out on their own, at which point the game doesnt stay a game anymore. There the websites help.
And you play games for your own satisfaction, atleast I do, so I dont care how long it takes for me to do a mission or how many people have done it before me. If I do it the proper way, it was my journey, my satisfaction, my enjoyment.
What kind of silly argument is that? There is much more to an MMORPG than just reading quest text you know.
Imo,the reason why many people don't read quest text anymore is because there is simply too much text to read and it's not exactly shakespeare material. Todays MMORPG's are almost entirely quest driven, it's completely normal for you to do somewhere between 10 ~ 20 quests every hour, and each of them have a full page of text. Pardon my short attention span, but I do not feel like reading entire pages on why some farmer wants me to protect his farm from wolves or how the evil dark elves are destroying the forest.
More often than not the quest text is nothing more than an NPC trying to find an excuse to get you to kill some creature who is probably doing nothing but minding his own damn business.
Another reason I don't care about the quest text is because it's entire intention is wasted on me. It's intention is to get me more immersed in the characters and the storyline, but all it does is remind me i'm playing a video game.
Here is a typical situation, You walk up to an NPC who is just standing around all day. he offers you a quest to find some flowers, stones, whatever. He explains to you why he needs them, and off you go.
I dare anybody to say with a straigth face the following thought has never occured to them:" Why don't you do it?"
Why do I have to go around picking flowers or collecting for people when he is just standing around all day and could easily do it themselves? It's immersion breaker number 1!
It's also the reason I look up things on wiki such as quest directions or loot. Walking around aimlessly makes me annoyed. I have no problem climbing a mountain but at least tell me where the darn mountain is.
The problem with MMOs is that they are trying to cater to everyone and satisfying no one. They try to satisfy the immersive player who loves a good storyline and to feel like they are apart of a game but at the same time satsify the competitive player who wants to get through as much content as quickly as possible while at the same time satisfy the casual user who wants to log in for 5 minutes complete a quest and log out and this is what we end up with.
Shallow, boring quests that no one cares about anymore.
I believe if a developer created a true niche game focusing soley on one type of player and did it well it could be really satisfying.
Strategy guides have been in existance for years. There is no difference from looking something up in a Wiki, versus store bought guide versus game FAQ versus chat channels versus game addon. The only difference is that wiki and online tools make it quicker to access information and allow for evolution of a game updated by the player base. But people have been seeking the easy way through games for ages.
The ill that you are referring to has nothing to do with Wikis though. There is a larger player base that has accepted the quick grind philosophy mostly in part to World of Warcraft. Many have the idea that endgame is where it is at and leveling up quickly is the only way to get to the "good stuff". People also want the best without effort again partly due to World of Warcraft and their welfare epics. World of Warcraft has influenced this a lot. They aren't the only company to create this trend but they are the biggest influence due to their sub numbers. And a lot of companies have fallen to the trap putting quest arrows and extensive quest descriptions to make it easier on the player.
Honestly I think there needs to be a balance. I can accept that a quest giver gives you the local when it makes sense, where the npc knows exactly where something is. However when an NPC tells you their kid is missing and the kid pops up on the map? Sorry not believable. I also agree that some things should be very hard to figure out. MMOs don't have true easy/normal/hard modes (outside of instancing) so their should be places that challenge players or help satisfy the needs of those that like difficulty. A place where the average player wouldn't dream of venturing alone but that the experienced veteran might find like an interesting opportunity.
============================== Currently Playing: Lord of the Rings Online since original Open Beta, Atlantica Online Waiting On: Knights of the Old Republic, Aion Played: World of Warcraft (3 years), Ultima Online (2 years), EvE Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Lineage, Perfect World
Personally I use them all the time. If i want to read, I read novels, not quest text.
Then why not just open Excel and play on that? Why play RPGs?
Anyways, on topic, I believe that the websites have their uses. On huge content games such as EvE, it can get frustrating for players to figure everything out on their own, at which point the game doesnt stay a game anymore. There the websites help.
And you play games for your own satisfaction, atleast I do, so I dont care how long it takes for me to do a mission or how many people have done it before me. If I do it the proper way, it was my journey, my satisfaction, my enjoyment.
What kind of silly argument is that? There is much more to an MMORPG than just reading quest text you know.
Imo,the reason why many people don't read quest text anymore is because there is simply too much text to read and it's not exactly shakespeare material. Todays MMORPG's are almost entirely quest driven, it's completely normal for you to do somewhere between 10 ~ 20 quests every hour, and each of them have a full page of text. Pardon my short attention span, but I do not feel like reading entire pages on why some farmer wants me to protect his farm from wolves or how the evil dark elves are destroying the forest.
More often than not the quest text is nothing more than an NPC trying to find an excuse to get you to kill some creature who is probably doing nothing but minding his own damn business.
Another reason I don't care about the quest text is because it's entire intention is wasted on me. It's intention is to get me more immersed in the characters and the storyline, but all it does is remind me i'm playing a video game.
Here is a typical situation, You walk up to an NPC who is just standing around all day. he offers you a quest to find some flowers, stones, whatever. He explains to you why he needs them, and off you go.
I dare anybody to say with a straigth face the following thought has never occured to them:" Why don't you do it?"
Why do I have to go around picking flowers or collecting for people when he is just standing around all day and could easily do it themselves? It's immersion breaker number 1!
It's also the reason I look up things on wiki such as quest directions or loot. Walking around aimlessly makes me annoyed. I have no problem climbing a mountain but at least tell me where the darn mountain is.
The problem with MMOs is that they are trying to cater to everyone and satisfying no one. They try to satisfy the immersive player who loves a good storyline and to feel like they are apart of a game but at the same time satsify the competitive player who wants to get through as much content as quickly as possible while at the same time satisfy the casual user who wants to log in for 5 minutes complete a quest and log out and this is what we end up with.
Shallow, boring quests that no one cares about anymore.
I believe if a developer created a true niche game focusing soley on one type of player and did it well it could be really satisfying.
I agree. A lot of quests really are of a shallow, boring quality. This has caused not only the competitive player to skip through text but also the player who has the preconception that the quest is "more of the same" fast-forwarding the text. Focusing on one core of players is pretty much what helps keep niche MMOs alive but alas they are all trying very hard to cover all their bases agressively and not always doing a good job at it. Games like Eve Online and LOTRO have learned to adapt and focus on their community. It's not for everyone but those it's designed for grow very loyal to the game.
Another thing that makes it rough is when game designers hide the interesting quests behind quest chains that are pointless 90% of the way or have the starter be some random dropped item that you may or may not bump into. Sure I like a good easter egg but not when the best quest of the zone is buried while all the others are shallow and boring.
============================== Currently Playing: Lord of the Rings Online since original Open Beta, Atlantica Online Waiting On: Knights of the Old Republic, Aion Played: World of Warcraft (3 years), Ultima Online (2 years), EvE Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Lineage, Perfect World
Comments
Then why not just open Excel and play on that? Why play RPGs?
Anyways, on topic, I believe that the websites have their uses. On huge content games such as EvE, it can get frustrating for players to figure everything out on their own, at which point the game doesnt stay a game anymore. There the websites help.
And you play games for your own satisfaction, atleast I do, so I dont care how long it takes for me to do a mission or how many people have done it before me. If I do it the proper way, it was my journey, my satisfaction, my enjoyment.
Hmm .. i can't fireball hordes and hordes of mob in excel, can I?
And btw, i do play with excel to optimize my toon.
Then you fall behind. Theres no point in being succsessful. Have fun if a wiki ruins your mmorpg gaming experience then play how you want to. Still i see your point, once i found out about wikis and i use them sometimes, but still if you dislike such information then ignore it. You don't have to i mean your character is your character, not Paladinboi22s' character.
"i have a lvl 26 maplestory warrior lvl 9 asda story archer and a adventure quest mage lvl 15 and my xfire is my bro's"
Then why not just open Excel and play on that? Why play RPGs?
Anyways, on topic, I believe that the websites have their uses. On huge content games such as EvE, it can get frustrating for players to figure everything out on their own, at which point the game doesnt stay a game anymore. There the websites help.
And you play games for your own satisfaction, atleast I do, so I dont care how long it takes for me to do a mission or how many people have done it before me. If I do it the proper way, it was my journey, my satisfaction, my enjoyment.
What kind of silly argument is that? There is much more to an MMORPG than just reading quest text you know.
Imo,the reason why many people don't read quest text anymore is because there is simply too much text to read and it's not exactly shakespeare material. Todays MMORPG's are almost entirely quest driven, it's completely normal for you to do somewhere between 10 ~ 20 quests every hour, and each of them have a full page of text. Pardon my short attention span, but I do not feel like reading entire pages on why some farmer wants me to protect his farm from wolves or how the evil dark elves are destroying the forest.
More often than not the quest text is nothing more than an NPC trying to find an excuse to get you to kill some creature who is probably doing nothing but minding his own damn business.
Another reason I don't care about the quest text is because it's entire intention is wasted on me. It's intention is to get me more immersed in the characters and the storyline, but all it does is remind me i'm playing a video game.
Here is a typical situation, You walk up to an NPC who is just standing around all day. he offers you a quest to find some flowers, stones, whatever. He explains to you why he needs them, and off you go.
I dare anybody to say with a straigth face the following thought has never occured to them:" Why don't you do it?"
Why do I have to go around picking flowers or collecting for people when he is just standing around all day and could easily do it themselves? It's immersion breaker number 1!
It's also the reason I look up things on wiki such as quest directions or loot. Walking around aimlessly makes me annoyed. I have no problem climbing a mountain but at least tell me where the darn mountain is.
The problem with MMOs is that they are trying to cater to everyone and satisfying no one. They try to satisfy the immersive player who loves a good storyline and to feel like they are apart of a game but at the same time satsify the competitive player who wants to get through as much content as quickly as possible while at the same time satisfy the casual user who wants to log in for 5 minutes complete a quest and log out and this is what we end up with.
Shallow, boring quests that no one cares about anymore.
I believe if a developer created a true niche game focusing soley on one type of player and did it well it could be really satisfying.
i guess just differents play want different game experience
Strategy guides have been in existance for years. There is no difference from looking something up in a Wiki, versus store bought guide versus game FAQ versus chat channels versus game addon. The only difference is that wiki and online tools make it quicker to access information and allow for evolution of a game updated by the player base. But people have been seeking the easy way through games for ages.
The ill that you are referring to has nothing to do with Wikis though. There is a larger player base that has accepted the quick grind philosophy mostly in part to World of Warcraft. Many have the idea that endgame is where it is at and leveling up quickly is the only way to get to the "good stuff". People also want the best without effort again partly due to World of Warcraft and their welfare epics. World of Warcraft has influenced this a lot. They aren't the only company to create this trend but they are the biggest influence due to their sub numbers. And a lot of companies have fallen to the trap putting quest arrows and extensive quest descriptions to make it easier on the player.
Honestly I think there needs to be a balance. I can accept that a quest giver gives you the local when it makes sense, where the npc knows exactly where something is. However when an NPC tells you their kid is missing and the kid pops up on the map? Sorry not believable. I also agree that some things should be very hard to figure out. MMOs don't have true easy/normal/hard modes (outside of instancing) so their should be places that challenge players or help satisfy the needs of those that like difficulty. A place where the average player wouldn't dream of venturing alone but that the experienced veteran might find like an interesting opportunity.
==============================
Currently Playing: Lord of the Rings Online since original Open Beta, Atlantica Online
Waiting On: Knights of the Old Republic, Aion
Played: World of Warcraft (3 years), Ultima Online (2 years), EvE Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Lineage, Perfect World
Then why not just open Excel and play on that? Why play RPGs?
Anyways, on topic, I believe that the websites have their uses. On huge content games such as EvE, it can get frustrating for players to figure everything out on their own, at which point the game doesnt stay a game anymore. There the websites help.
And you play games for your own satisfaction, atleast I do, so I dont care how long it takes for me to do a mission or how many people have done it before me. If I do it the proper way, it was my journey, my satisfaction, my enjoyment.
What kind of silly argument is that? There is much more to an MMORPG than just reading quest text you know.
Imo,the reason why many people don't read quest text anymore is because there is simply too much text to read and it's not exactly shakespeare material. Todays MMORPG's are almost entirely quest driven, it's completely normal for you to do somewhere between 10 ~ 20 quests every hour, and each of them have a full page of text. Pardon my short attention span, but I do not feel like reading entire pages on why some farmer wants me to protect his farm from wolves or how the evil dark elves are destroying the forest.
More often than not the quest text is nothing more than an NPC trying to find an excuse to get you to kill some creature who is probably doing nothing but minding his own damn business.
Another reason I don't care about the quest text is because it's entire intention is wasted on me. It's intention is to get me more immersed in the characters and the storyline, but all it does is remind me i'm playing a video game.
Here is a typical situation, You walk up to an NPC who is just standing around all day. he offers you a quest to find some flowers, stones, whatever. He explains to you why he needs them, and off you go.
I dare anybody to say with a straigth face the following thought has never occured to them:" Why don't you do it?"
Why do I have to go around picking flowers or collecting for people when he is just standing around all day and could easily do it themselves? It's immersion breaker number 1!
It's also the reason I look up things on wiki such as quest directions or loot. Walking around aimlessly makes me annoyed. I have no problem climbing a mountain but at least tell me where the darn mountain is.
The problem with MMOs is that they are trying to cater to everyone and satisfying no one. They try to satisfy the immersive player who loves a good storyline and to feel like they are apart of a game but at the same time satsify the competitive player who wants to get through as much content as quickly as possible while at the same time satisfy the casual user who wants to log in for 5 minutes complete a quest and log out and this is what we end up with.
Shallow, boring quests that no one cares about anymore.
I believe if a developer created a true niche game focusing soley on one type of player and did it well it could be really satisfying.
I agree. A lot of quests really are of a shallow, boring quality. This has caused not only the competitive player to skip through text but also the player who has the preconception that the quest is "more of the same" fast-forwarding the text. Focusing on one core of players is pretty much what helps keep niche MMOs alive but alas they are all trying very hard to cover all their bases agressively and not always doing a good job at it. Games like Eve Online and LOTRO have learned to adapt and focus on their community. It's not for everyone but those it's designed for grow very loyal to the game.
Another thing that makes it rough is when game designers hide the interesting quests behind quest chains that are pointless 90% of the way or have the starter be some random dropped item that you may or may not bump into. Sure I like a good easter egg but not when the best quest of the zone is buried while all the others are shallow and boring.
==============================
Currently Playing: Lord of the Rings Online since original Open Beta, Atlantica Online
Waiting On: Knights of the Old Republic, Aion
Played: World of Warcraft (3 years), Ultima Online (2 years), EvE Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Lineage, Perfect World