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Vanguard
Solidar
Member Posts: 1
So as a veteran of EQ1 and 2, also played WoW at launch, I decided to come back to gaming after 2 years off. I came to this site and researched what games I might be interested in trying. Somewhere(probably here) I read a poll about which game was the worst disappointement ever. VG was the winner (or at least near the top of the list) Yet because of who the developers were, I did more research and about 3 months ago decided to give it a try. Mostly because I wanted to relive the EQ1 experience. My biggest concerns was starting an old game with low population. But the maturie community aspect about the game was also a big selling point.
For anyone considering this game I can assure you that I haven't been disappointed. I play on Seradon and our guild has new players joining daily. No exaggeration. The free to try trial island is constantly loaded with new people and veteran players starting new characters. One of the things about VG is that there is so much content people start new toons so they can see the content they missed on the the first and second time around. I have little trouble finding or starting a group, and I am playing a ranger, not the most sought after class. The economy seems fine and there is lots of new content for higher levels. Recent additons to the game such PVP arena, sailing(galleons) and fishing (which is quite involved and difficult) are areas I haven't even had time to explore yet. Diplomacy is another whole sphere which I have hardly begun. There is 2 new dungeons on the way and a level cap increase with AA(EQ style) coming this year.
My only interest in posting here for the first time is that I nearly didn't give the game a shot because of all the negative posts I read, and I think that ppl who are EQ1 vets will find what they are looking for in VG. Or at least a lot closer than anything else. The odd circumstance of a 2 year old game feeling like a new release has been my experience of late. And the added benefit is there is not the usual hyper kids trying to outlevel everyone, burning through new games just to get to the next. It is generally adults, often taking their time and being considerate.
The only motives you can nail me with for writing this would be that i would like to see the Sigil development (now under SOE) team have more resources. Most of the original design team with the same vision are still in place and as well, I can't tell you the game is now completely bug free, it is certainly not distracting from gameplay.
Comments
There is a large difference between people who start now and the people who start at the beginning.
The people who started in the beginning were either True Believers in the cult of McQuaid who were let down. And a turned fanatic is usually pretty hateful. Or they were normal people who were sold a bill of goods with a lot of stuff non-functional.
Then SOE came in fixed a lot of stuff but also changed some thing to disappointment the hardcore "it has potential" crowd.
So that is what you are left with. No one is interested in re-writing history and you will get a bunch of posters taking about what was and why that is the same as what is.
I want to play again too. We need to launch a campaign trying to gain new members.
I'm kinda just waiting for a few games now after being burned out in general. I played Vanguard a lil' bit after its launch but it was still mostly buggy and I couldn't really get behind any of the character models.
Anyone who had a similar experience seeing anything different in the game? I could go for some old school EQ1 'feel' at the moment, without actually going back to EQ1 but I'm glad the option is still there.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Drastically improved game, very impressed with the turn around they did
I tried Vanguard recently. I was pleased at first.
But after a week the following issues got to me:
* A tedious crafting system. Yes it had some good points, but after a while it was not fun anymore
* A tedious Diplomacy mini-game. The idea is amazing. The execution is brutal.
* Flickering textures all over the place. Windmills missing, doors missing, flickering clothing, flickering hay stacks/rocks, etc
* The ONLY game I have ever seen in my life where your framerate is much WORSE in a dungeon than outside
* Bugged mining nodes all over the place
* A large world, but mostly empty
* Worst looking water ever. Does not fit with the rest of the graphics which are nice.
* Dreary un-colorful graphics, much like EQ2. It's as if someone placed a grey filter over everything.
* Falling through the world multiple times, mostly when swimming
* Brutal animations
Over a year and these issues are still present.
FYI - There is a free 14 day trial.
http://vanguard.station.sony.com/isleofdawn/
Gice it a shot and decide for yourself.
Good post by the OP. Vanguard still gets a bad-rap in some places due to the residual disappointment of a very bad launch, and then nearly a year of bug fixing and performance improvements.
But now, the game is in really good shape and the developers can devote more time to content additions which has really made things take off as of late. Any fair review at this point would definitely describe Vanguard as a very good MMO.
In response to the above....
I don't find crafting tedious, yes there is some grind to it, but it's also a unique system with complications, many, many quests, gear and diplomacy benefits. It took me a LONG time to fully grasp VGs crafting.
Same with diplomacy there is some grind to it, but only if you are in a rush to level. Working on gear, house quests, regular quests and writs is a very fun way to level up a diplomat.
With respect to the flickering, that is easily fixed. I had the same a year or more ago and forgot what I did to fix it. There's a tech post related to that.
Personally, I haven't seen a bugged mining nodes in a long time.
I love the large world, there is more land mass in this game than any other.... but following the quest-lines, adventuring areas etc. will almost always keep you in a populated area. But there are also parts of the world that are empty except for some obscure quests and mobs.
I agree with the water, I never did like VG ocean graphics. Rivers are nice, you can see currents, whitecaps etc... but the ocean waters are bland.
The sytyle of the graphics varies a lot based on continent. Kojan is very colorful and ornate... Qalia is more bland.. but that's intentional since it's a desert continent
Just take a look at one of the VG movies or screenshot galleries.... it's a beautiful, beautiful game.
Yep, some people still fall through the world. Personally, it only happens to me when I'm mountain climbing.
Animations are very good for most races and classes, however, there are a couple that still need to be redone.
{ Mod Delete }
Sorry but many players even those with current pc's report graphic issues. Maybe its the drivers or certain hardware but it does happen. Telling everyone with issues its their pc is bullshit that has been going on since beta and more often than not its Vanguard with the problem not the player.
As far as your attack regarding tedious crafting, thats your opinion just like its his that crafting is tedious. I know there are many who love the crafting in vanguard. Personally i find it the most anal retentive,tedious,mind numbingly boring system ever created. It has nothing to do with being lazy.
I think you can fix the flickering textures. There is a setting called hardware occlusion I believe. Some systems have an issue with this that can cause flickering. This is from memory so you might want to look it up on the support forums.
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Ethion
Well reguarding crafting I'd have to say in my opinion VG crafting is the least boring crafting system in any game I know.... I've played wow's one click system which really amounts to spend money, click a lot. No thought at all you are only limited by your resources. Or EQ2 system which is comical. It tries to be intesting with complications and 6 buttons to click to progress but really you just need ot hit the first 3 over and over and go to sleep cause the complications don't matter. You can speed the process by using some of the second 3 but ultimately it is a no challenge thoughtless grind.
Frankly I can't think of a crafting system out that doesn't fit these two catagories.
VG is the only crafting system that actually puts some challenge into it. meaning it doesn't just take some mindless button clicking and dumping money into it to level up. You actually gotta play the crafting game, work on getting better equipment, completing work orders, and struggling to get the best quality result possible. When I'm crafting it is a struggle. I curse sometimes and get pissed as hell. But it is actually a fun process that requires some thought and work. It is anything but boring if you enjoy the challenge. Now it isn't for everyone. Some people don't want to craft they just want to be able to make stuff and do it with as little fuss as possible. They like the dump money into it click buttons fast and presto I'm lvl xx in as few clicks as possible.
Anyway it isn't something we can agree on I'm just pointing out that VG crafting is unique and interesting if you want to craft. If it is a just a side thing you got no interest in then sure it does take a lot of work and is far more challenging then any other game.
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Ethion
Well reguarding crafting I'd have to say in my opinion VG crafting is the least boring crafting system in any game I know.... I've played wow's one click system which really amounts to spend money, click a lot. No thought at all you are only limited by your resources. Or EQ2 system which is comical. It tries to be intesting with complications and 6 buttons to click to progress but really you just need ot hit the first 3 over and over and go to sleep cause the complications don't matter. You can speed the process by using some of the second 3 but ultimately it is a no challenge thoughtless grind.
Frankly I can't think of a crafting system out that doesn't fit these two catagories.
VG is the only crafting system that actually puts some challenge into it. meaning it doesn't just take some mindless button clicking and dumping money into it to level up. You actually gotta play the crafting game, work on getting better equipment, completing work orders, and struggling to get the best quality result possible. When I'm crafting it is a struggle. I curse sometimes and get pissed as hell. But it is actually a fun process that requires some thought and work. It is anything but boring if you enjoy the challenge. Now it isn't for everyone. Some people don't want to craft they just want to be able to make stuff and do it with as little fuss as possible. They like the dump money into it click buttons fast and presto I'm lvl xx in as few clicks as possible.
Anyway it isn't something we can agree on I'm just pointing out that VG crafting is unique and interesting if you want to craft. If it is a just a side thing you got no interest in then sure it does take a lot of work and is far more challenging then any other game.
To show you how bad crafting has gotten in MMOs, I think vanguards crafting is tedious yet at the same time it is still one of the best crafting systems around. That's how bad it is out there.
UO still has the best crafting IMO.
I'm gonna guess, but I think it is Geforce 8 Series that have the flickering problem... and as someone posted above, I believe turning off Occulusion fixes it. It's not unique to VG, I had the same object flicking problem with Company of Heroes. I might have made a card adjustment to fix it universally, just don't remember. Or maybe driver updates resolved it.
I really loved SWG's crafting, but that was really about harvestng and getting the best quality of resources, rather than actual crafting skill. I really felt like I was business man with harvesting rigs deployed on different planets, factories cranking out parts and stores and merchants selling my products. People took pride in decorating their stores. Searching out the best components that you could not make your self from other merhcnats The global exchange which listed the products in your stores made crafting the very best product a very competative game element.
/sigh ... those where the days.
Glad you're really enjoying the game.
EQ1 vet here as well, I have tried a variety of games old and new, still keep coming back to VG.
I have played VG on and off since launch, I was in beta 3. Whilst I admit the game is buggy and still has bugs, its really no different from any game with the same complexity of VG.
To say "Game x" had no issues at launch when it has half the content and complexity of VG, is a little unfair. Sure they ran out of money and botched the launch but SOE stepped in and VG is now an excellent game.
Needless to say the game has reached such a good condition, combined with a whole series of disastrous badly designed new games, that I no longer look elsewhere.
I am enjoying VG and will be for some time to come.
55th level, new raid/group dungeon and AA will only help keep my interest for this year coming.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Agreed... Before the NGE I had two swg accounts. One an adventurer and one a crafter. SWG crafting was fantastic and you did feel very much like a businessman. Probably the best game to me that captures that feeling today is eve. Eve has a very deep business model in it that is rather complicated and takes some work to get into but once you understand it is pretty fun as well.
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Ethion
Good post, OP!
Though I never played EQ for more then a coupleof days, I too really like Vanguard and consider it the "best" MMO around, at least for me.
I started back at launch, inspite of the bad things I had read on some forums about beta (and my bad experiences with SOE about SWG and EQ2). But my brother, an old UO-launch vet, who was in VG beta told me to give it a try, at the same time, I was , once again
, tired of WoW, didn't want to go back to DAoC and didn't like EQ2's zone concept.
So, where to go?
Ok, got the VG box, got in game and thought, meh, this game runs so bad, world is empty, it's buggy, no fun at all, but hey, give it a chance! So, I tried hard for a week and along came a beta-invite for the LotRO beta. And was this a difference! That game was running smooth, had content and really was fun, and that in beta even. So, I gave up on VG and started LotRO. But, that got boring rather fast (3 months) and I stumbled back to WoW.
Couple months later, I got very excited about what I heard of a game called AoC
!
And really, in 11.2007, I got into that game's closed beta and was so happy about it, because, again, WoW got boring. I had a couple of nightshifts ahead of me which I did use to play and so was looking forward to AoC-beta. But was that a disappointment! Of course, it was only beta, but the whole concept of instancing the whole world I really didn't and don't like. That was bad! Me sitting there,in the middle of the week of nightshifts, nothing to play, only watch TV or youtube. No, to boring! So, I read up on some forums, even got to the SOE site ( and I had sworn to never touch any of their games again after SWG, EQ2 and VG) et voila, there was a free re-activation of accounts or sth like that. Ok, searched for that old VG box (luckily, I was a teleworker then and was at home for the nightshift
) installed...and had to patch, ugh.
Ok, that night there was no playing VG, but, the next night, I got in, and I really was amazed. I really had this sense of wonder You and I should always have when entering another world (new MMO/videogame) for the first (ok, in this case, the second) time!
The game still has bugs,has performance issues,but all in all, to me, it provides the best "package" of MMO's around. I launched with WAR, and I really do like it, I got the Moria expansion, as I wanted to see Moria, and I quite like LotRO once again, I even got Wrath recently and do even like that. But, at the end of the day,VG and its players is what I like most, and as I have become a "casual" over the last 3-4 years with only 0-20hrs/week time to play, I cancelled all those other games in mid-january and will only carry on with VG for now, I even have 2 accs since last summer...
Sry, that was long, but I'm a bit drunk (its 1030pm where I am) and my girlfriend watchessth stupid on TV!
Oh really? So you think you need to advertise the game to others to get them to see how brilliant it is?
Sorry but the product advertises itself. It also has a free trial available so anyone can download and try it for free. However despite this Vanguard still isnt getting much attention. If Vanguard was such a great game then loads of people would be playing it and we wouldnt be seeing all of these dreary "Come back to Vanguard. Its much better now. Honestly!" threads.
Unfortunately Vanguard just simply is NOT a good game at all and the majority of its potential players are voting with their wallets. I went back to it about a year ago (tried it at launch too) after I kept seeing threads like this one which said exactly the same things about it such as "the graphics are better", "loads of content", "vast gameworld" etc etc. Its all bullshit. Dont believe any of it.
This game sucks. It was awful when it launched and the only improvement I noticed upon returning several years later was that it was actually playable because the lag issues had died down a lot. It still looked like total shit though and it was still boring as hell to play through and had awful animations and ugly character models. The diplomacy aspect of the game was very lame although I respect the fact that they at least tried to do something new. Its just a shame that the way they did it was so rubbish. You cant have diplomacy in a game and yet at the same time have a static gameworld which the players cant influence. Diplomacy + static unchangeable themepark gameworld = fail.
However its remaining fans soldier on in its defence like a horde of religious fanatics, desperately trying to convert others to their cause in the hope that more players will somehow save the game and turn it into something good. Fortunately most people are well aware of what Vanguard was, is today and will be in the future. With more increasingly advanced and interesting mmos on the horizon there is even less reason to subscribe to a low quality offering like Vanguard.
I played at launch and stopped about 2 months after. I recently came back and am now having a blast. The game is hugely improved and surprisingly its pretty easy to find a group as many players are returning. Its up to the player which game they like. Im having a ton of fun with Vanguard now so im going to keep playing. Ive done the WAR and AoC thing and wasnt having fun at all. Download the trial and give it a shot
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Oh really? So you think you need to advertise the game to others to get them to see how brilliant it is?
Sorry but the product advertises itself. It also has a free trial available so anyone can download and try it for free. However despite this Vanguard still isnt getting much attention. If Vanguard was such a great game then loads of people would be playing it and we wouldnt be seeing all of these dreary "Come back to Vanguard. Its much better now. Honestly!" threads.
Unfortunately Vanguard just simply is NOT a good game at all and the majority of its potential players are voting with their wallets. I went back to it about a year ago (tried it at launch too) after I kept seeing threads like this one which said exactly the same things about it such as "the graphics are better", "loads of content", "vast gameworld" etc etc. Its all bullshit. Dont believe any of it.
This game sucks. It was awful when it launched and the only improvement I noticed upon returning several years later was that it was actually playable because the lag issues had died down a lot. It still looked like total shit though and it was still boring as hell to play through and had awful animations and ugly character models. The diplomacy aspect of the game was very lame although I respect the fact that they at least tried to do something new. Its just a shame that the way they did it was so rubbish. You cant have diplomacy in a game and yet at the same time have a static gameworld which the players cant influence. Diplomacy + static unchangeable themepark gameworld = fail.
However its remaining fans soldier on in its defence like a horde of religious fanatics, desperately trying to convert others to their cause in the hope that more players will somehow save the game and turn it into something good. Fortunately most people are well aware of what Vanguard was, is today and will be in the future. With more increasingly advanced and interesting mmos on the horizon there is even less reason to subscribe to a low quality offering like Vanguard.
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed I see.
YOU think the game is crap, I think the game is GREAT(and beautiful), it's all about taste. If you prefer games like WAR, AoC with no content at all, then go ahead, coz that's what future mmo's will look like(more and more mmo's showing up means more and heavier competition for the companies, wich will lead to simplicity. graphics and fluff). And Vanguard is a really beautiful game, imo.
Vanguard is a really really hard mmo, it's not something you rush through in 2 days, it takes months, days and weeks to complete something(not everything though :P).
Like the CIS quest-line on in Qalia, been doing that quest-line for like 2 days, several hours per day and still not done, with awsome loot on the way. Same thing with HL-questline, took me days to complete and finally finished it this morning. And no it does not have anything to do wit hlack of people, it's just that the quests are long, and that's great imo. If there's something this game doesn't lack, then it's CONTENT, the world of Telon is almost bubbling over with it, never experienced so much content in any mmo before(only played SWG, WoW, LotrO and AoC though).
Oh, just a remark on the diplomacy, if it's so wortless, then why do I have several in-game mates who are high-level diplos? Let's not forget the faction bonuses you can get through diplomacy(racial mounts, city faction armor/weps etc).
Cheers.
i186.photobucket.com/albums/x225/Flumselunsan/ScreenShot_00005.jpg
Vanguard in-game pic taken by me a few days ago, ugly game? Don't think so.
Oh really? So you think you need to advertise the game to others to get them to see how brilliant it is?
Sorry but the product advertises itself. It also has a free trial available so anyone can download and try it for free. However despite this Vanguard still isnt getting much attention. If Vanguard was such a great game then loads of people would be playing it and we wouldnt be seeing all of these dreary "Come back to Vanguard. Its much better now. Honestly!" threads.
Unfortunately Vanguard just simply is NOT a good game at all and the majority of its potential players are voting with their wallets. I went back to it about a year ago (tried it at launch too) after I kept seeing threads like this one which said exactly the same things about it such as "the graphics are better", "loads of content", "vast gameworld" etc etc. Its all bullshit. Dont believe any of it.
This game sucks. It was awful when it launched and the only improvement I noticed upon returning several years later was that it was actually playable because the lag issues had died down a lot. It still looked like total shit though and it was still boring as hell to play through and had awful animations and ugly character models. The diplomacy aspect of the game was very lame although I respect the fact that they at least tried to do something new. Its just a shame that the way they did it was so rubbish. You cant have diplomacy in a game and yet at the same time have a static gameworld which the players cant influence. Diplomacy + static unchangeable themepark gameworld = fail.
However its remaining fans soldier on in its defence like a horde of religious fanatics, desperately trying to convert others to their cause in the hope that more players will somehow save the game and turn it into something good. Fortunately most people are well aware of what Vanguard was, is today and will be in the future. With more increasingly advanced and interesting mmos on the horizon there is even less reason to subscribe to a low quality offering like Vanguard.
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed I see.
Its amusing that whenever someone talks in detail about why they think a game is bad then someone will always say something along the lines of "Oh you're really grumpy" in an attempt to discredit the person who is putting down their lovely game.
But no I got out of the correct side of the bed thanks. If I didnt then I would have collided with a wall.
YOU think the game is crap, I think the game is GREAT(and beautiful), it's all about taste. If you prefer games like WAR, AoC with no content at all, then go ahead, coz that's what future mmo's will look like(more and more mmo's showing up means more and heavier competition for the companies, wich will lead to simplicity. graphics and fluff). And Vanguard is a really beautiful game, imo.
No I disliked WAR immensely as it was just a blatant WoW cash-in with the same meaningless PvP of the original and yet despite it being new it actually manages to do everyone worse than WoW.
I also played AoC but did not stick at it for long.....not because of lack of content but because its just yet another themepark level-grinding game with no purpose other than to reach max level. It looked pretty but it got boring for me fast.
So no I dont prefer those two games over Vanguard. Why would I when they are all so similar? Just like WAR, AoC, WoW and EQ2 this game also follows the usual story telling themepark ride that we have been seeing for years. It does however split it all up a bit by not guiding you as strictly as other games do but still nothing you do as a player really matters in the game. You cant really do anything interesting. All you can do is just accept the quests, do what the game tells you (click on object, kill monsters etc etc......the usual) and climb up the levels and the game tells you a story as you do it. I just prefer a bit more involvement in games which is why I rarely stick with the themepark games for long and also why I repeatedly found Vanguard boring no matter how much I tried to get into it. I dont need a game to tell me a story and tell me what to do and where to go. I also dont see any point in "exploring" a game world when I know its not a real game world at all and is in fact just a big shopping mall of "tasks" that reward you with yet more lame attempts at story telling. Its a static gameworld like many others and although it kept me entertained for a short while it rapidly became extremely boring for me. I felt like I was a robot being controlled by the game and as I ran about from one task giver to the next I would see everyone else jerkily running about doing exactly the same as me.......boring.
Also I disagree that games are going to continue to get simpler. There are a bunch of mmos on the horizon that seem to be trying to break away from this boring storytelling PvE format which all of these uninvolving themepark games seem to have been following.......and about time too! It has been long overdue for games developers to fully realise that online games dont have to be designed like single player games which is why all of this PvE storytelling crap has been so prevailent. Its inevitable that mmos will evolve to allow players to properly interact with the gameworld and its inhabitants. Games such as Vanguard which are nothing more than badly written online books will become a thing of the past.
Vanguard is a really really hard mmo, it's not something you rush through in 2 days, it takes months, days and weeks to complete something(not everything though :P).
No its not really hard. I dont think any PvE game is hard. The challenge in Vanguard is simply the amount of time you spend on doing things. Have you ever come across a part in Vanguard (or any other themepark mmo) which made you think "Oh gosh! How am I ever going to get through this?". Some how I doubt it. The worst thing that can happen is that you can meet a higher level monster......in which case you just wait until your "Calculator" has more numbers on it than the monster "calculator" and when your numbers are higher you go back and kill it. Yeah what a challenge lol
Like the CIS quest-line on in Qalia, been doing that quest-line for like 2 days, several hours per day and still not done, with awsome loot on the way. Same thing with HL-questline, took me days to complete and finally finished it this morning. And no it does not have anything to do wit hlack of people, it's just that the quests are long, and that's great imo. If there's something this game doesn't lack, then it's CONTENT, the world of Telon is almost bubbling over with it, never experienced so much content in any mmo before(only played SWG, WoW, LotrO and AoC though).
Content. Hmmm.....yes people use that word a lot when talking about mmos dont they. What actually does this content consist of though? In an mmo "more content" generally means that there is more to read and more ways of getting to read it. Thats all. So yes Vanguard probably does have more npcs (aka buttons disguised with graphics of people) which you can click on and when you do they give you more text to read etc etc. In other words all of that glorious content is actually just the same thing repeated except its dressed up differently with different patches of text. If you find all of this exciting then thats fine for you. I personally need something a bit more involving.
Oh, just a remark on the diplomacy, if it's so wortless, then why do I have several in-game mates who are high-level diplos? Let's not forget the faction bonuses you can get through diplomacy(racial mounts, city faction armor/weps etc).
People do lots of worthless things. So your saying that the fact that your friend did something thats actually rather worthless somehow makes it worthwhile.......but if your friends got more "phat loot" out of it then it must be great as thats what gaming is all about isnt it. Experience points and loot. Gotta keep chasing the shiny things right? Each to their own though.
Cheers.
i186.photobucket.com/albums/x225/Flumselunsan/ScreenShot_00005.jpg
Vanguard in-game pic taken by me a few days ago, ugly game? Don't think so.
Its amusing that whenever someone talks in detail about why they think a game is bad then someone will always say something along the lines of "Oh you're really grumpy" in an attempt to discredit the person who is putting down their lovely game.
But no I got out of the correct side of the bed thanks. If I didnt then I would have collided with a wall.
Oh really? So you think you need to advertise the game to others to get them to see how brilliant it is?
Sorry but the product advertises itself. It also has a free trial available so anyone can download and try it for free. However despite this Vanguard still isnt getting much attention. If Vanguard was such a great game then loads of people would be playing it and we wouldnt be seeing all of these dreary "Come back to Vanguard. Its much better now. Honestly!" threads.
Unfortunately Vanguard just simply is NOT a good game at all and the majority of its potential players are voting with their wallets. I went back to it about a year ago (tried it at launch too) after I kept seeing threads like this one which said exactly the same things about it such as "the graphics are better", "loads of content", "vast gameworld" etc etc. Its all bullshit. Dont believe any of it.
This game sucks. It was awful when it launched and the only improvement I noticed upon returning several years later was that it was actually playable because the lag issues had died down a lot. It still looked like total shit though and it was still boring as hell to play through and had awful animations and ugly character models. The diplomacy aspect of the game was very lame although I respect the fact that they at least tried to do something new. Its just a shame that the way they did it was so rubbish. You cant have diplomacy in a game and yet at the same time have a static gameworld which the players cant influence. Diplomacy + static unchangeable themepark gameworld = fail.
However its remaining fans soldier on in its defence like a horde of religious fanatics, desperately trying to convert others to their cause in the hope that more players will somehow save the game and turn it into something good. Fortunately most people are well aware of what Vanguard was, is today and will be in the future. With more increasingly advanced and interesting mmos on the horizon there is even less reason to subscribe to a low quality offering like Vanguard.
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed I see.
Its amusing that whenever someone talks in detail about why they think a game is bad then someone will always say something along the lines of "Oh you're really grumpy" in an attempt to discredit the person who is putting down their lovely game.
But no I got out of the correct side of the bed thanks. If I didnt then I would have collided with a wall.
YOU think the game is crap, I think the game is GREAT(and beautiful), it's all about taste. If you prefer games like WAR, AoC with no content at all, then go ahead, coz that's what future mmo's will look like(more and more mmo's showing up means more and heavier competition for the companies, wich will lead to simplicity. graphics and fluff). And Vanguard is a really beautiful game, imo.
No I disliked WAR immensely as it was just a blatant WoW cash-in with the same meaningless PvP of the original and yet despite it being new it actually manages to do everyone worse than WoW.
I also played AoC but did not stick at it for long.....not because of lack of content but because its just yet another themepark level-grinding game with no purpose other than to reach max level. It looked pretty but it got boring for me fast.
So no I dont prefer those two games over Vanguard. Why would I when they are all so similar? Just like WAR, AoC, WoW and EQ2 this game also follows the usual story telling themepark ride that we have been seeing for years. It does however split it all up a bit by not guiding you as strictly as other games do but still nothing you do as a player really matters in the game. You cant really do anything interesting. All you can do is just accept the quests, do what the game tells you (click on object, kill monsters etc etc......the usual) and climb up the levels and the game tells you a story as you do it. I just prefer a bit more involvement in games which is why I rarely stick with the themepark games for long and also why I repeatedly found Vanguard boring no matter how much I tried to get into it. I dont need a game to tell me a story and tell me what to do and where to go. I also dont see any point in "exploring" a game world when I know its not a real game world at all and is in fact just a big shopping mall of "tasks" that reward you with yet more lame attempts at story telling. Its a static gameworld like many others and although it kept me entertained for a short while it rapidly became extremely boring for me. I felt like I was a robot being controlled by the game and as I ran about from one task giver to the next I would see everyone else jerkily running about doing exactly the same as me.......boring.
Also I disagree that games are going to continue to get simpler. There are a bunch of mmos on the horizon that seem to be trying to break away from this boring storytelling PvE format which all of these uninvolving themepark games seem to have been following.......and about time too! It has been long overdue for games developers to fully realise that online games dont have to be designed like single player games which is why all of this PvE storytelling crap has been so prevailent. Its inevitable that mmos will evolve to allow players to properly interact with the gameworld and its inhabitants. Games such as Vanguard which are nothing more than badly written online books will become a thing of the past.
Vanguard is a really really hard mmo, it's not something you rush through in 2 days, it takes months, days and weeks to complete something(not everything though :P).
No its not really hard. I dont think any PvE game is hard. The challenge in Vanguard is simply the amount of time you spend on doing things. Have you ever come across a part in Vanguard (or any other themepark mmo) which made you think "Oh gosh! How am I ever going to get through this?". Some how I doubt it. The worst thing that can happen is that you can meet a higher level monster......in which case you just wait until your "Calculator" has more numbers on it than the monster "calculator" and when your numbers are higher you go back and kill it. Yeah what a challenge lol
Like the CIS quest-line on in Qalia, been doing that quest-line for like 2 days, several hours per day and still not done, with awsome loot on the way. Same thing with HL-questline, took me days to complete and finally finished it this morning. And no it does not have anything to do wit hlack of people, it's just that the quests are long, and that's great imo. If there's something this game doesn't lack, then it's CONTENT, the world of Telon is almost bubbling over with it, never experienced so much content in any mmo before(only played SWG, WoW, LotrO and AoC though).
Content. Hmmm.....yes people use that word a lot when talking about mmos dont they. What actually does this content consist of though? In an mmo "more content" generally means that there is more to read and more ways of getting to read it. Thats all. So yes Vanguard probably does have more npcs (aka buttons disguised with graphics of people) which you can click on and when you do they give you more text to read etc etc. In other words all of that glorious content is actually just the same thing repeated except its dressed up differently with different patches of text. If you find all of this exciting then thats fine for you. I personally need something a bit more involving.
Oh, just a remark on the diplomacy, if it's so wortless, then why do I have several in-game mates who are high-level diplos? Let's not forget the faction bonuses you can get through diplomacy(racial mounts, city faction armor/weps etc).
People do lots of worthless things. So your saying that the fact that your friend did something thats actually rather worthless somehow makes it worthwhile.......but if your friends got more "phat loot" out of it then it must be great as thats what gaming is all about isnt it. Experience points and loot. Gotta keep chasing the shiny things right? Each to their own though.
Cheers.
i186.photobucket.com/albums/x225/Flumselunsan/ScreenShot_00005.jpg
Vanguard in-game pic taken by me a few days ago, ugly game? Don't think so.
Its amusing that whenever someone talks in detail about why they think a game is bad then someone will always say something along the lines of "Oh you're really grumpy" in an attempt to discredit the person who is putting down their lovely game.
But no I got out of the correct side of the bed thanks. If I didnt then I would have collided with a wall.
Whouw, hold your horses. Ok, I take it that you hate "sandbox"-mmo's. hell, to me it sounds you hate all mmo's out there.
I guess it must feel really good to come here and complain about it. Sorry you don't like it, but other people actually enjoy this game or other mmo's out there. But then there's people like you who hates it and can't stand that other people actually likes this or that game. And you must tell the world about it to satisfy your own selfish need, just because you didn't like the product...
Unhappy costumers -----> that way.
Thank you come again.
Please understand that people have different opinions about different matters and always will. No matter how much we all try to convince each other of what's right or what's wrong, people will still go on about their business wether we like it or not.
Oh really? So you think you need to advertise the game to others to get them to see how brilliant it is?
Sorry but the product advertises itself. It also has a free trial available so anyone can download and try it for free. However despite this Vanguard still isnt getting much attention. If Vanguard was such a great game then loads of people would be playing it and we wouldnt be seeing all of these dreary "Come back to Vanguard. Its much better now. Honestly!" threads.
Unfortunately Vanguard just simply is NOT a good game at all and the majority of its potential players are voting with their wallets. I went back to it about a year ago (tried it at launch too) after I kept seeing threads like this one which said exactly the same things about it such as "the graphics are better", "loads of content", "vast gameworld" etc etc. Its all bullshit. Dont believe any of it.
This game sucks. It was awful when it launched and the only improvement I noticed upon returning several years later was that it was actually playable because the lag issues had died down a lot. It still looked like total shit though and it was still boring as hell to play through and had awful animations and ugly character models. The diplomacy aspect of the game was very lame although I respect the fact that they at least tried to do something new. Its just a shame that the way they did it was so rubbish. You cant have diplomacy in a game and yet at the same time have a static gameworld which the players cant influence. Diplomacy + static unchangeable themepark gameworld = fail.
However its remaining fans soldier on in its defence like a horde of religious fanatics, desperately trying to convert others to their cause in the hope that more players will somehow save the game and turn it into something good. Fortunately most people are well aware of what Vanguard was, is today and will be in the future. With more increasingly advanced and interesting mmos on the horizon there is even less reason to subscribe to a low quality offering like Vanguard.
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed I see.
Its amusing that whenever someone talks in detail about why they think a game is bad then someone will always say something along the lines of "Oh you're really grumpy" in an attempt to discredit the person who is putting down their lovely game.
But no I got out of the correct side of the bed thanks. If I didnt then I would have collided with a wall.
YOU think the game is crap, I think the game is GREAT(and beautiful), it's all about taste. If you prefer games like WAR, AoC with no content at all, then go ahead, coz that's what future mmo's will look like(more and more mmo's showing up means more and heavier competition for the companies, wich will lead to simplicity. graphics and fluff). And Vanguard is a really beautiful game, imo.
No I disliked WAR immensely as it was just a blatant WoW cash-in with the same meaningless PvP of the original and yet despite it being new it actually manages to do everyone worse than WoW.
I also played AoC but did not stick at it for long.....not because of lack of content but because its just yet another themepark level-grinding game with no purpose other than to reach max level. It looked pretty but it got boring for me fast.
So no I dont prefer those two games over Vanguard. Why would I when they are all so similar? Just like WAR, AoC, WoW and EQ2 this game also follows the usual story telling themepark ride that we have been seeing for years. It does however split it all up a bit by not guiding you as strictly as other games do but still nothing you do as a player really matters in the game. You cant really do anything interesting. All you can do is just accept the quests, do what the game tells you (click on object, kill monsters etc etc......the usual) and climb up the levels and the game tells you a story as you do it. I just prefer a bit more involvement in games which is why I rarely stick with the themepark games for long and also why I repeatedly found Vanguard boring no matter how much I tried to get into it. I dont need a game to tell me a story and tell me what to do and where to go. I also dont see any point in "exploring" a game world when I know its not a real game world at all and is in fact just a big shopping mall of "tasks" that reward you with yet more lame attempts at story telling. Its a static gameworld like many others and although it kept me entertained for a short while it rapidly became extremely boring for me. I felt like I was a robot being controlled by the game and as I ran about from one task giver to the next I would see everyone else jerkily running about doing exactly the same as me.......boring.
Also I disagree that games are going to continue to get simpler. There are a bunch of mmos on the horizon that seem to be trying to break away from this boring storytelling PvE format which all of these uninvolving themepark games seem to have been following.......and about time too! It has been long overdue for games developers to fully realise that online games dont have to be designed like single player games which is why all of this PvE storytelling crap has been so prevailent. Its inevitable that mmos will evolve to allow players to properly interact with the gameworld and its inhabitants. Games such as Vanguard which are nothing more than badly written online books will become a thing of the past.
Vanguard is a really really hard mmo, it's not something you rush through in 2 days, it takes months, days and weeks to complete something(not everything though :P).
No its not really hard. I dont think any PvE game is hard. The challenge in Vanguard is simply the amount of time you spend on doing things. Have you ever come across a part in Vanguard (or any other themepark mmo) which made you think "Oh gosh! How am I ever going to get through this?". Some how I doubt it. The worst thing that can happen is that you can meet a higher level monster......in which case you just wait until your "Calculator" has more numbers on it than the monster "calculator" and when your numbers are higher you go back and kill it. Yeah what a challenge lol
Like the CIS quest-line on in Qalia, been doing that quest-line for like 2 days, several hours per day and still not done, with awsome loot on the way. Same thing with HL-questline, took me days to complete and finally finished it this morning. And no it does not have anything to do wit hlack of people, it's just that the quests are long, and that's great imo. If there's something this game doesn't lack, then it's CONTENT, the world of Telon is almost bubbling over with it, never experienced so much content in any mmo before(only played SWG, WoW, LotrO and AoC though).
Content. Hmmm.....yes people use that word a lot when talking about mmos dont they. What actually does this content consist of though? In an mmo "more content" generally means that there is more to read and more ways of getting to read it. Thats all. So yes Vanguard probably does have more npcs (aka buttons disguised with graphics of people) which you can click on and when you do they give you more text to read etc etc. In other words all of that glorious content is actually just the same thing repeated except its dressed up differently with different patches of text. If you find all of this exciting then thats fine for you. I personally need something a bit more involving.
Oh, just a remark on the diplomacy, if it's so wortless, then why do I have several in-game mates who are high-level diplos? Let's not forget the faction bonuses you can get through diplomacy(racial mounts, city faction armor/weps etc).
People do lots of worthless things. So your saying that the fact that your friend did something thats actually rather worthless somehow makes it worthwhile.......but if your friends got more "phat loot" out of it then it must be great as thats what gaming is all about isnt it. Experience points and loot. Gotta keep chasing the shiny things right? Each to their own though.
Cheers.
i186.photobucket.com/albums/x225/Flumselunsan/ScreenShot_00005.jpg
Vanguard in-game pic taken by me a few days ago, ugly game? Don't think so.
Its amusing that whenever someone talks in detail about why they think a game is bad then someone will always say something along the lines of "Oh you're really grumpy" in an attempt to discredit the person who is putting down their lovely game.
But no I got out of the correct side of the bed thanks. If I didnt then I would have collided with a wall.
Whouw, hold your horses. Ok, I take it that you hate "sandbox"-mmo's. hell, to me it sounds you hate all mmo's out there.
How about you grab hold of your own horses? I'm interested in the mmo genre in general and although a lot of the latest titles have been rather weak I'm actually pretty excited about what the future holds......but yeah that does mean that I think the current crop of mmos are not particularly great games. How could they be when online gaming is still in its infancy? However I do find elements of them interesting and they are very clearly evolving. Vanguard for example had some good ideas but the end result was just piss poor which is why hardly anyone bothers playing it. Sorry if you find that fact upsetting to hear but you will just have to get over it. Vanguard was just not a very popular or successful game.
I feel that online games are appraoching the end of the road where pure story telling is involved. We have effectively been playing online games that are based on a single player design concept for a long time now. I reckon online gaming will become a lot more intricate and involving than what we have currently seen. I dont think it will be too long before we can actually effect the gameworld through our actions and therefore create our own stories by actually being a part of them. We wont have to be told a story because we will be making the story ourselves through our involvement with our surroundings.
This is why I am unimpressed with games like Vanguard which do little to allow player interaction and instead provide entertainment the easier way (for the devs) by just telling the players a story via an enormous load of text. Like I said though it has some good ideas but they were not implemented very well. Now combine that with poor performance, silly sound effects, a lifeless gameworld that feels empty and appalling character models and animations and you end up with a bad game.......and yeah before you point out the obvious yet again.....YES I know thats just my opinion so there's no need to get your knickers in a twist.
And why would I hate sandbox games? Thats the very thing that I think online gaming should be moving towards.......or are you seriously trying to suggest that Vanguard is a sandbox game?! I really hope not because thats just ridiculous. If Vanguard is a sandbox game then so is WoW. In my opinion a sandbox game is a game in which the players control the outcome of the game world rather than the other way round. A real sandbox game should be dynamic and change to reflect the players actions. It shouldnt have quests that are set in stone that tell every person who plays them the same identical story. Vanguard is a static themepark world just like most mmos.
I guess it must feel really good to come here and complain about it. Sorry you don't like it, but other people actually enjoy this game or other mmo's out there. But then there's people like you who hates it and can't stand that other people actually likes this or that game. And you must tell the world about it to satisfy your own selfish need, just because you didn't like the product...
I guess it must feel really good to come here and defend your game. I'm happy you like it but other people actually dont enjoy this game and other mmos out there. But then theres people like you who love it and cant stand that other people dislike it. And you must tell the world about it to satisfy your own selfish need, just because you like the product.
Blah blah blah blah blah same old tried and tested retorts we've all seen a billion times. Person A likes game. Person B doesnt like game. Person A takes it all personally (forgetting that this is merely a forum) and tells Person B that they are mean and nasty. Person B tells Person A to stop being a dick.
Unhappy costumers -----> that way.
Thank you come again.
Oh indeed I shall. Dont worry about that
Please understand that people have different opinions about different matters and always will. No matter how much we all try to convince each other of what's right or what's wrong, people will still go on about their business wether we like it or not.
Yeah yeah other people have their own opinions on things and are free to enjoy whatever games they like. Do you often come onto these forums and point out the blatantly obvious to people as though you are the only one who has realised this amazing nugget of profound wisdom?
Newsflash! This is a forum. Its where people come to talk and rant about games. This inevitably means that people will disagree. Some people will think a game is crap and others will love it. Yes I dont like the game and you do. So what? I'm sorry but I'm pretty sure that negative critisism is not banned on any of these forums. Hell I've even admitted to liking some of the ideas in vanguard but because my overall opinion of the game is a poor one then you get all personal and aggressive like a loyal little Vanguard doggy. I'm really really really really sorry that you cant handle the fact that I dont like the same game as you and I'm really really really really sorry that it offends you so much and that you feel as though I am attacking you personally but thats you're own failing and I'm afraid you will just have to learn to deal with it in your own way. Meanwhile I will continue to say whatever I like about any game on these forums and if my opinions annoy you then its just tough shit for you. Its not as though I'm ruining anyones fun is it.
Waaagghhh!!! Boo hoo that bad man said he doesnt like my game! Oh no I cant go and play it any more! He's ruined it for me! lol
Oh and......please understand that people have different opinions? LMAO! No really?! There was me thinking I lived on a planet swarming with like minded creatures who all agree on everything. Thats just awesome that you are the one telling ME that when YOU are the one who is finding my viewpoint upsetting when all we are doing is sharing opinions about a game. Yes people have different opinions......it doesnt mean I'm going to nod my head and agree with them though does it. Obviously I respect peoples right to have their opinions.....even if they are completely wrong (thats a joke by the way before you start crying again). Thats the great thing about these forums. People are free to voice their opinions and none of it matters because people will like whatever they like anyway. This is all just a bit of harmless amusement so stop taking it all so personally.
Welcome to real life
ps. In fact this forum is pretty much like a themepark PvE mmo. Thousands of people all in the same place and yet unable to actually do anything to effect each other.
Vanguards certainly come along way. I started in Beta 2 in August 2005, when we regularly had less than 100 people on (70-80 was average on a busy night), and it still had the original almost turn based combat system (which I actually really enjoyed). While I admit that I would far prefer that they had stuck closer to the original vision instead of adapting a number of "WoW-ified" systems, I do like where it is now and really like the community a lot.
Yep, it still has its faults, it's still a bit clunky in many respects and content is sparse in some areas, among other issues I'm sure, but it has the right "pace" for me, the right atmosphere, depth, and a fantastic community. This game certainly has enough drama in it's history to write a book about, but I'm rootng for it and absolutely see a ton of potential.
I really hope they don't take this upcoming expansion lightly, it could be a very good thing for this game.