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Healing and Support: Some people actually LIKE these roles - without DPS
Glamis
Member Posts: 84
One of the bigger problems with a MMOs from the last 4-5 years is the way they deal with support/healing/etc. The developers seem to think people don't like these tasks very much, so they are scared to make pure support/healer classes any more.
The problem is, some people actually LIKE being pure support.
So instead, they create these weird DPS/healer hybrids that are virtually impossible to balance. And in the end, people who LIKE support are frustrated as heck.
Here's a blog post where I go into more detail on the theory:
<Mod edit>
Anyone else out there who likes a pure support class?
Should MMO developers heed this, and create pure support classes again, in addition to hybrid support classes?
Comments
The problem from a gameplay perspective is that while some people like being a healer, not enough people do to make relying on player healers practical. If six player groups are the optimal size for some particular content and a group does best with two of those players as healers, and only 20% of players want to be a healer, then there is a dire shortage of healers and a considerable fraction of players will be unable to get a viable group for lack of healers.
Trying to get rid of that via game design would be very hard to do. Going from one healer to two doubles your healing capability, while having only a small effect on a group's damage output--even if a healer cannot do any damage at all. One way to do it would be to have enough other mandatory roles that there simply isn't room for two healers, which would only make groups that much harder to get. Another approach would be artificial restrictions like not allowing a group to have more than one healer, but you're unlikely to hit the percentage of players who wants to be healers by such an approach--and that could change both with time of day and as a game matures. The only other solution that I see would be to make more people want to be healers, which is precisely what you're complaining about, and understandably so.
I like to try all classes ones atleast. I enjoy both healing and dps. Sometimes even tanking depending on game though.
The best solution I've ever come across for this is to let people switch roles without switching characters. FF XI and EvE both do this (albeit in totally different ways). More people will be willing to tank/heal if it's not a full-time commitment.
I agree with the OP and his link. I think that healers should have some damage, but never ever in their life times to ever compete with dps. To have some damage to solo, just enough to get buy. But yes, this healer dps is horrible. It is a massive unbalance. The only way hybrids work in balancing is to have all classes hybrids. Don't even say wow, wow did a horrible job, but a nice attempt.
In Wurmonline my fighting skill never got above 15. Casualisk Crafting and exploring Ker-Rawr.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Get rid of classes and you won't have this problem.
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I would have no problem playing a class that did zero damage but has tons of support or healing. Bard and enchanter in EQ1 were my favorite classes. Their damage sucked but they could change the tide of battle with their utility.
Frick yeah, thats all I play are the healing/support roles. I love to just sit back and heal and let everyone else do all the work for me! hahah
I don't dislike Melee/Tank classes, but I do just prefer to stay in the background and watch it all unfold and keep my party alive and well!
I also don't trust most other players to heal me or play a healer as dedicated as I do!
I totally agree with the OP.
It's completely ridiculous that healer classes can dish out huge damage.
I like PvP, but I hate the fact that developers have tried so hard to balance character archetypes. By all means make the healer difficult to kill, and with a chance to get away, but don't have them dish out insane damage. It's just wrong.
I would prefer to play a squishy but effective healer than any other type.
I'm one of those who likes it ^^
I just like to help people, so I always take the support classes or chars, but to bad I can't find a good game now where they have cool stuff for those kinda people...
To many poeple want to be able to solo, so every class is being balanced to be able to solo. Just read the thread on games like WAR on how poeple complain there healers can not defeat a DPS or Tank class.
Reason you don't see pure healers etc is because you don't see groups anymore.
SOLO PLAY RULES!!!! YEH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The genre is dead, social group playing is out, in with the instant reward, everyone for themselves.
Grats to the game companies, you got subs, quantity not quality though.
your games are shit, have no challenge, encourage greed, (which is handy for you , station cash anyone?)
I am sick of the MMORPG'S of today, and sick of the "I dont want a second job " winers.
Nobody wants a second job, but we also don't want the shit we have nowadays.
You can still solo greens, so just do it and let us group up, some of us know how to comminicate and be social.
So as to OP , one day you may be needed again, that day aint now
It's to do with the solo-oriented gameplay more and more MMOs are espousing. It makes no sense to have a purely non-dps support class in the game if people mainly solo most of the time anyway.
I prefer to have hybrid healers. I like the idea of being able to support myself and do soloable content if I can't find a group as a healer. If there is a group looking for a healer, I always prefer to go do the group content. The hybrid healer gives people a choice of what they can do. In the old days it was painful: pure support either had to wait until a group was available (and yes quite often there wasn't), or groups waited for support to log on because invariably there was never enough healers to go round. So that must say something: despite some people wanting to play pure support classes, not enough people do. Game developers realised they had to change something about how support was set up in their games because one of the most essential roles of MMOs was not played enough.
WoW has gone to the other extent where hybrid healers are too powerful and displace pure dps classes from their role. Despite their power, a lot of players still don't want to heal with hybrids. I find myself still having to wait for a healer to fill out a group. That is one reason why I dropped my lock in favour of a Druid because I can easily keep a group alive in an instance even on a balance Druid.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
"Reason you don't see pure healers etc is because you don't see groups anymore.
SOLO PLAY RULES!!!! YEH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The genre is dead, social group playing is out, in with the instant reward, everyone for themselves."
Bah you beat me to it!
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
You do not get to define the genre, WE do. Clearly the WoW shows the genre is by far from dead. It has 10 million subs now? Beside that plenty of games there still having the elements you want. Look for games like Wurms Online(Released), A Tale In the Desert(Released), Fallen Earth (Alpha), Eve-Online(Released), Darkfall(Who knows) and loads more.
All these games encourage you to cooperate, is it for PvE, PvP or for building. In Fallen Earth (and Darkfall?) You can become full healer/support. True you might still be able to handle a pistol/sword, but in general they will be weak and will only be used as a last resort.
Beside that, EVERY MMO out there gives you a change to work together in groups and do actualy reward that (Becouse you can finish mission faster). I do not see how this would not be true in game like World of Warcraft, but then again I have not played that game for years.
Many people like healing. Few people like being just healers.
Many people like tanking. Few people like being just tanks.
Hence why the cry of the forlorn PuGger has always been "LFG: Need Healer and Tank!"
In times gone by when you needed a tank for a group in WoW you got a Warrior, and when you wanted a healer, you looked for a Priest, because that was all that the class was good for.
Now, developers are realising that the way to ensure that there are enough tanks and healers for group play is to make them, (to some degree) hybrids. For the first time in a long, loooong time, we're seeing calls go out: "LFG: Need DPS" and that's a very refreshing thing.
The problem that I have with the prospect of "pure" healers/tanks is how they will affect the other hybrid healers/tanks and how they are accepted in their roll.
For example; if a class were to be introduced to WoW that was a "pure" tank, was unable to heal and didn't have a viable damage tree to afford them to DPS in groups/raids; why would people play them?
The simple answer is that they wouldn't. No-one in their right mind would sacrifice the ability to heal or DPS without a trade-off of some sort, so how do you make the class attractive to players?
The simple answer (again) is to boost their tanking abilities to make them better tanks than any of the other hybrid tanking classes; but that would royally screw over everyone who is playing that class, and once again result in "LFG: Need <insert new tanking class>" and the exclusion of the hybrids.
Step in the wrong direction imo. Hybrid = Variety = Win.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I don't think you understand balancing much. If there are pure archetype classes with hybrid classes, yes those pure classes should be the top tier of their roles. A hybrid means, you share 2 or more roles. People need to understand penalties. I think the reason why we see DPS upped in tanks and healers is exactly what you said, why would people play a pure archetype class if that's their only role? And that's simply because devs make those classes linear and boring. I think each class needs to be indepth and have several different ways to play their class with out limitations. I also believe that you can't mix main archetype hybrids with pure hybrids because of those whinners and complainers. The only way to fix that problem is give secondary roles to the main archetype classes.
I prefer to play a healer in a support capacity. In fact, I switched to a cleric for my main in EQ. I had a few friends that I grouped with almost every night. When we didn't group or I wanted to solo for a bit I switched to an alt. i don't need one character that does everything. That, to me, is boring. I like creating multiple characters that play different roles. If I wanted easy soloing, I played my druid. For more of a challenge, I would solo my rogue.
I don't like games where every character does everything. It's not only boring, but negates any need / want for group play. i would like to see a game like EQ where you could solo, but it was much harder than grouping. I actually like roles and classes. I think it brings the community closer, rather than divide it.
Full Healing/Support are still popular on certain games and can make a huge difference in a party's survival (Flyff,Dofus/Wakfu, SilkRoad (bard/cleric)) though they suck in PvP and won't survive too long in PvE, their support are extremely important and there's a nice amount of people to play them.
I never liked DPS/Healer anyway, it's not even a class anymore it's a hermaphrodit. Of course they are more usefull, but they're still useless at the same time. Even if you're a DPS/Healer, you'll end up healing a lot if the party requires so, so why not make a full support, buff your party and use some nice "battle control" skill such as "bind enemy" to control the tide of the battle? Which one would be more usefull? "Someone who can deal amazing damage and heal" or 'someone who makes sure no one in his party dies and disable all enemies'?
I never really played WoW so I can't say say much about it, but I'm pretty sure most people would say "amazing damage and heal" but once they get into a party and realise they will have to heal more than they thought, they will call their party members as noobs and leave. A full support is not bound to this, regardless of wether or not his party "sucks" he's able to make sure everything goes well and without any casualities on his side.
I like Full Support Healer and I really hope we'll see more of them in the near future.
And that is why we need to get rid of the class system and pray most MMO will implement a skill system like UO, Darkfall, Fallen Earth, etc.
Then the player can decide whatever he want to be a decent healer, who can defend himself. Or an awsome healer who can not defend himself. However even with a class system it could work, but you can not change a game like WoW or any game already out there to this system, where a healer is really a healer.
if a party sucks sooner or later they will fail doesn't matter if you are the best healer around the world.
Back on topic. I love healing and don't mind beeing the traditional weak healer. But sometimes it get boring. Healing is fun in the challenging battles but for the easy ones i like to have other things to do like CC or some damage just to help and keep entertained.
IMO what Lotro did allowing priests to change stances between pure healer and decent AoE damage reducing the heals 50% is interesting.
What i don't like is the pure buffer class (aka prophets in L2) this is really boring.
There are a lot of people who feel the same way, but modern MMOs are ignoring them. It is good to have hybrid support classes that are solo-friendly as well. But ALL support classes should not be this type of hybrid. There should be pure support as well to provide a gameplay avenue for the people who like pure support.
-Glamis
Threshold RPG - Our World, Your Imagination
http://www.thresholdrpg.com
I agree.
wow got it right .switch specs and then you can solo or group support better
No, wow didnt get it right at all. Had a good attempt, but that system is horrible. At least we know what it is with that idea implemented so I do thank WoW for that. Each class has massive balance issues. Most of the classes are in the three main archetypes and can compete with the others who are linear, such as mage. You look for tanks or healers and they are spec'ed dps. With wow's system, why have classes at all if they don't complement each other for groups? The WoW class system does not understand hybrid penalities at all. The only themepark game that got it right in my opinion was EQ. But I think EQ's verison can be updated where you dont need ever single class in your group. Sorry, no one will convince me otherwise that WoW has a good class system.