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On Blizzard, corporate greed and soul-less cash-pumping
Arthousesig
Member Posts: 305
The biggest stars of the last 3-4 years of gaming are without a doubt Blizzard, Activision, Ubisoft (on a spree of acquisitions) and Nintendo (after what looked like a major decline) - and their successes have usually come from filling a mass appeal gap in the entertainment market with a video game solution - world of warcraft for mmo's, the wii for consoles, etc - but there the analogy ends, for Nintendo has been a hardware innovator more than anything else.
However, I'm sure we also remember the large video game companies of the past and how quickly they sank when they had nothing but sequels, expansions and derivative games on their pipeline of upcoming titles - some of the major examples being Atari, Sega, Midway, Eidos,THQ, and of course Capcom.
There are 2 things all these companies have in common:
- They were dominant in the video game market at some point
- They have declined heavily (2 of them are effectively gone) over the years where they have produced nothing but sequels and what could quite only charitably be called "cash-ins"
I believe Blizzard is currently in this situation, with Diablo and Starcraft sequels out on the horizon and the hopes of its investors and board of directors placed in the hands of a hypothetical "WoW II" to be produced in the distant future, the ability of Blizzard to create new IP is limited. There is no direction to go but down.
We all remember when we thought Tomb Raider would last forever, or even those of us who praised SOE and believed Everquest would be the greatest game of all time (and for a while it was) - so what went so wrong?
I believe the same thing that happened to those companies is going to happen to Blizzard.
Their creativity is at an all-time low, and their corporate greed and desire to extort money from their customers at an all time high.
Blizzard has become a corporation without soul - a giant company without creative spirit. Its purpose is not to produce something of great quality, but to produce marketing of the highest penetration, and make as much money from its consumers as possible.
The great creative minds who produced the original and groundbreaking ideas of the Warcraft MMO, or the intricate balance of the Starcraft universe, or indeed the fun and immersion of the Diablo series no longer work there. Their creative minds have been replaced with the wallets of fat cats who seek nothing but to make their next buck.
They produce little content for WoW, taking 3-4 months to patch in new content when they could have the manpower to produce 4 times over in a month. The content they do release is nothing but recycled materials from the minds of greater creative game designers long gone - very much like the upcoming DIable sequel. And the pressure to appeal to the lowest common denominator, making the game less of a challenge to appeal to the masses - well that is an executive decision from a management who has taken over what was once a great gamer's game, and turned it into a cash machine. Sounds like Resident Evil or Tomb Raider all over again? That's because it is.
Blizzard has lost its way. And so has the decay begun. Blizzard, the next Midway? Let's find out in 2009.
Comments
Are the Blizzard fatcats forcing people to play their games? No. People simply won't continue to pay for something so trivial as a game if they didn't think there was value to it. Just take a quick look on this forum to read all the supposed 'I'm quitting' posts.
(Oh wow, Arizona just took the lead lol)
Other than the general tone of Blizzard being some monolithic evil presence, I'd agree I'd like to see a different game from them as well. Who knows what the secret project will be, and if it is another MMO for the love of all that's good please don't let it be another run-of-the-mill fantasy themepark.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
this is not a defense of blizzard, but the fact is they are not known from making a huge number of games over the years. In their record they have lost vikings, the warcraft RTS series, the Starcraft RTS series , the diablo hack and slash RPG series and the mmorpg WOW series and . rumor is, a new next gen MMORPG on a new setting, in production.
And truth be told, in their past, only twice they took a real risk breaking form orthodoxy, first with diablo, that was made and released when RPG games were in a all time low due to a serie of unimaginative products repeating the same formula; and with WoW- tho this was more a risk of "can they do a mmorpg", since wow already had their hardcore fan base.
They are also slow releasing . Being it content, expansions or games. And I hope they keep like that, since, as we have seen in recent times, two high profile titles -WAR and AOC- kind of bombed due to their developers schedule.
In wow particularly they are artificially slow for a reason, being it a totally gear centric game, they can't just push out content and items. I am almost sure they set a gear treshold for % of the player base and update the game when such quota is reached.
Like the past show there is not much of a point on releasing big quality content when only 5% of the player base can actually see it. I still remember the old pre-tbc times where 80% of my server never passed beyond aq40 second or third boss oronly 5% actually saw more nax first boss because they didnt had the gear or man power to do it.
as for their creativity even most wotlk haters tends to agree that , leveling wise, it was not that bad of an expansion. They put some pretty decent creativity on quest, that are in a large part quite different from "go there, kill 10 bears, come back so i can send you to kill 10 wolfs".
at the same time they are one of the few companies that actually have their own no royalty IP.it is their name. Put blizzard on a video game box and it sells. People will buy it without actually knowing much about the game.
The problem IMHO is that people have been playing WoW for too long. It is not even blizzard or players fault, more like other game developers fault since they can't field a competitive quality game. I personally do not understand presently what players expect from blizzard and wow, or better yet wow expansions.
Honestly. Apart from introducing some new classes, revising or changing skills, increasing or lowering the learning curve of dungeons, there is not much that can be done. This was and is a fantasy based mmorpg with focus on gear and end game,being that end game arenas or pve raiding. That will never change .
oh, and yes, after /played 420 days +xx hours in a single char i'm bored with wow also. But guess what, is my fault, not blizzard or wow. Eventually one gets tired of the same thing everyday.. being ita game, a job, a wife... sometimes even ourselfes.
You're saying Blizzard is a soulless corporation?
HO
LY
CRAP
Blizzard only seems big because they actually make their own games. Instead of the other companies you listed that always farms out projects to smaller teams they own. Blizzard has only ever farmed out projects twice and they were both cancelled because they were not up to Blizzard standards.
Blizzard has a few hundred developers split between 3 projects.
And if you dont think WoW is of great quality then not only should you just leave the MMORPG genre but video games altogether. You have simply lost the ability to appreciate a good game.
lmao what the hell are you smoking? The guys who were there at the start of wow like Metzen, Kaplan, Afrasiabi,etc. are still very much a part of it. Great flame bait post though and iam sure it will definately attract alot more people with "predictions" and "facts".
But then again its the usual story on these anti-wow boards and i only come here for comic relief. Thanks for the hillarious read
Sure, Blizzard probably won't be as dominant in MMORPGs five years from now as today. In related news, the Phillies probably won't do as well this year as they did last year.
Corporations exist for the sake of producing a profit. They have no other reason to exist. And that's not a bad thing, either; if Blizzard didn't care about profits, their games wouldn't be nearly so polished.
Saying that Blizzard don't care about the quality of their games is pure nonsense. They produce the best quality games on the PC market, polished to the finest details. They continue to maintain and patch games that are 10 years old. They discarded numerous games for not being "good enough". It's obvious from their development process (see blogs about D3 or SC2) that they proof-test lots of concepts before settling on a final version. And finally they're well known for releasing games "when it's ready", i.e. always later than expected.
As for the diversity of the games, I admit it's a bit disturbing to see sequels and sequels instead of new universes and game types. But well, they've got 3 extremely popular franchises, it's more than enough. I suppose that as long as their game concepts are not outdated (do we need another RTS?) and the players are not bored with their universes, it would be foolish not to give the players what they expect. Blizzard is a development studio, not a publisher, it's not their job to produce a wide variety of games for all audiences. They focus on what they can do, and do it extremely well.
As for creativity, it might be that creativity decreases when a company becomes big. It does not mean that this company is doomed. Big studio often produce uninspired but successful movies while true creativity is found in smaller movies. Besides, creativity is nice, but a creative idea poorly implemented is just a waste (see WAR PQs, for example). Blizzard has the catch to gather good ideas and make them work. It's maybe not as noble as being creative, but it's far more useful !
"Their creativity is at an all-time low, and their corporate greed and desire to extort money from their customers at an all time high."
Are you kidding? Name another MMORPG with phased technology? Name another MMORPG with vehicle combat? Name another game with flying mounts? Compare the boss fights in Wrath to the boss fights in AOC or Warhammer.. there are so many crazy boss fights in Wrath, and every other game is still in the 'tank and spank' phase. In WOW.. patchwork is the oddity.... yet in other games, he would be all that exists.
Do you realize that in Warhammer, the seige weapons can't be moved? and you can only attack at certain spots? Wintersgrasp is much more innovative at seiging than even a game that is focused on seiging.
OMG that was a hell of a long post to basically say nothing!
See the same posts over and over and over again! Before WOW, blizzard was a respected games producer, wow was released and they pushed their reputation through the roof, then a few people cottened on that with that success came great financial gain and all of a sudden they are the black heart of corporate evil!!!! Go Figure!!!!
Blizzard continue to do what they do best, create polished content that people enjoy playing, create innovative new ideas and also take ideas from other parts of the market and improve on them.
As for the 'lack of updates' argument, well it just doesn't hold water at all. I have been in games such as AO that used to push content out at a rate of knots and then spent even more time patching the problems with it. I will take Blizzards slow, steady and polished patches over that any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Blizzard have created a successful game and like any intelligent company they will exploit it to the max (EA are still doing it with 'The Sims' 9 years on), but all consumers have the choice as to whether they buy into it or not, so if you don't like it just don't buy it.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Well sir Webb,this is why some people make long posts ,to try and explain every aspect as best the ycan,because MANY in your case as well,people do NOT get it.
Like right away you said Blizzard sends their reputation through the roof?says who?
When you rob the public for a TON of money,and is that part even arguable?NO they make a ton off the public,you BETTER give something back.Correct or not?
Here we got all over the place developers MUCH smaller giving back to their game where as Blizzard just keeps turing out the same crap and people keep paying them to do it,that garners a good reputation?maybe to the dummies who do not understand MONEY,economics and EARNING the players trust.
What is that little free game ?Runescape?the one who decided ,you know what we are going to give the players that graphic update,we know we make 1/100h what Blizzard makes ,but we are going to do it anyhow.Blizzard's graphics are just awful and VERY low budget,they could EASILY afford to upgrade them,but they choose not to?why?simple answer,why give the players what they deserve?especially if they are stupid enough to keep paying us for a low budget effort,we might as well continue to rape them.
How many game developers out there give a TON of free content ,such as Square and FFXI,they do not always wait for their next expansion,they are throwing in updates of new content all the time..for FREE !.
Look at the continued efforts Vanguard and AOC have done to improve their games,LEAPS and bounds ,and god forgive WOW needs LOTS of improvement,or at worst case scenario,GIVE the players some needed content,and i mean LOTS of content,they have the money to do it,don't make a smaller developer like Square Enix embarrass you any further.
Blizzard is sitting IDLE on their game doing nothing,then they throw an expansion pack and all the WOW players brag about the sales of it RFLMAO,,how about for free?they have the dedicated player base paying them millions of dollars,i am pretty sure they can throw in that new map for free,not like they are upgrading the game engine with that new content,so what the heck are you paying them for?In case WOW players are naive,there is people out there making maps for FREE for games all the time,you need to pay blizzard more for a new map? lmao.Oh wait ,did they throw you 2 new mounts? lmao .Oh sorry they did add another piece of content they again stole from EQ2,i forget what they called it but you basically get achievement points,again stolen idea,not like they actually get paid to think of their own ideas lmao.
Blizzard has a ton of money to do EXACTLY what Epic does with the Unreal Engine and that is buy up technology and working with OTHER developers to keep the engine ever advancing and bringing your player base the best possible gaming experience they deserve.Blizzard does NOTHING in that area,and with the money they have there is NO excuse,they are a TOTALLY IDLE developer,that copies and cannot think of their own ideas if it slapped them in the back of the head.It would be accceptable if they were making no money and had no future in the gaming industry,basically a fly by nighter,but they are PRETENDING to be a leader,but act like a follower.
{Mod. Edit}
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Blizzard has always banked on easy mindless games (excluding StarCraft)
There's a reason 11 million people play Warcraft - It's accessable and easy. You can auto-attack and level from 1-80. All things are done in a "perfect" cycle (DPS/Tanking/Not so much healing), excluding PvP, which is mostly a joke. WoW PvP is basically a beggers PvP for those who want to feel capable.
The most difficult things in WoW are things you learn when you are 1 and 2 years old. Fire = Hot, Stay away from scary things. . . etc etc.
That is Blizzards business model. Diablo and Warcraft series have banked on feeding you time based accomplishments, and thats what they are, time based accomplishments. The WoW franchise has stripped the 2 M's out of MMO. WoW is an Online Roleplaying Game (ORPG), it is not a MMORPG until you hit max level.
Once you have obtained the max level, there's nothing to gain that really means anything. There's no epic adventures that requires a community, only an endless grind for gear. . . nothing that will ever reflect on the accomplishments of your character. Sure, they have legendaries, but is a legendary? A time based accomplishment. You were either lucky to get the drops or you spend 50 different BT or MC runs to acquire it. Your character never physically progresses.
It's almost funny. EverQuest was so very simple and the risk VS reward was much greater. Nothing in WoW has ever given me any sense of accomplishment, I didn't even care about loot in WoW because it was pointless. I'm not saying EverQuest was any more difficult, but it did require a community of individuals working together. You needed resses, SoW, buffs, teleports, experienced monks. . . EverQuest was not about how much gear you can acquire, but it was about spending time with others and adventuring. WoW has become a loot frenzy. . . Guild's/Groups/Friends disbanding because of loot. Sure, it happened in EQ during raids and very rare drops, but it was never 100% item based. WoW constantly feeds you cookies so you stay attached. . . . EQ provided rare cookies and a constant struggle/adventure of getting completely lost and learning the hard way.
I honestly think WoW is so easy because they are banking on the American mindset.
WoW is basically an online MySpace or FaceBook and not much more difficult, and yes, I played WoW for a very long time. . . the reason? It's a great way to get rid of a few hours during the day before you go to bed. I'm pretty sure not a single WoW player can agree with my sentiments, and that's fine, a false sense of accomplishment is still an accomplishment.
Gaming is serious business.
Yep, another just spewing every negative stereotype they gleamed from all over the net again and again.
"RAPE the public"??? That would suggest that Blizzard is holding people down and forcing them to pay to play their game?? Did i miss something, did Blizzard start kidnapping people off the street and force them to play their game, no of course they didn't! That is just pure inflamatory commentary without any substance what so ever!
Who says what players 'deserve'? You?
Blizzard provide a product in the form the choose to supply it, if you like it you play it, if you don't like it you don't play it, is that not simple enough for you??
While we are on the subject of content and the lack there of, what exactly is missing from the game that you crave an update of so much???
As for advances in graphics and engine etc... Why??? The graphics are not the most earth shattering, they never have been, but stunning visuals didn't do AOC any good did they! The games framework does the job it was designed to do, it provides large scale access to a polished game so that the maximum amount of the market can play it. Why would you slice away 20, 40, 50% of your market just to make the vendor you buy your bread from a bit prettier??
As for the money that Blizzard is making, i love it when people do a little $15 x 5Mill = Masses of cash calculation without taking into account where all of that money goes. Just imagine a fraction of the operation behind Wow and then imagine the costs involved in supporting that, let alone Vivendi's share holders that have to be kept happy.
As for copying ideas, OMG, every developer has been doing that since the days of Commodore PET or ZX Spectrum. There are very few, if any games these days that cannot be linked back to another computer game, pencil and paper role player or book so that is a mute argument.
Whatever i say, or whatever you say doesn't really matter as we all have our own view points, but in the end it all comes down to the same thing, play or don't it is your choice.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
You know what, as a WOW player i couldn't have put it better myself and although the rest of your post was pretty negative about the game you have actually nailed why it is so popular.
It is 'entertainment' in it's almost purest form. Gameplay as simple or complex as you want it to be, easy to get into and plenty of social interaction.
If you want hardcore or involved gameplay (as i did once), then there is plenty out there in game like EVE (had two accounts there once and loved it), but with kids, work, housework, basically real life all over you, sometimes you just want a game to log into, mess around for a while, have a chat and then log off again which WoW provides very well. (wow, how many comma's can you get in one paragraph")
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I don't buy the whole "Blizz has all this time and money and this is all they give us" crap. I'm sorry but that's BS. I'd much rather Blizzard took their time to produce polished, well-rounded content (which in my opinion, they do) than ship a constant flow of half-arsed crap, just because "zomg it's content!".
Every small time or indie company that becomes popular or financially succesful is instantly branded as having 'sold out' or becoming 'corporate moneygrabbers'. The fact is you can't make the kind of money Blizzard does and retain your cult status. It's no longer perceived 'cool' to like a developer once they're raking in the millions.
It's a shame because they are ironically one of the few developers that actually has any integrity left. The fact that some people don't like some of their decisions, is, quite frankly, tough doodoo. As someone once postulated: you can't please all of the people, all of the time.
This just gets better and better. Kudos on the racist remark.
Personally, I think we are seeing the Execs at Activision using WoW to milk more money out of the players. Think about it, we had paid character name change before but now we got Name Change Plus (name + physical features). They are pushing their authenticator again, even though anyone with common sense (and decent security software) will never have account issues. This could be someone higher up stepping on Blizzard's toes, so to speak.
As far as the creativity going down I have to agree on that. Again, stop and think for a second. From launch to BC we had 11 patches (1.02 thru 1.12). From BC to wrath we had just four. Of those four, only the 3rd and 4th really changed anything. The first BC patch was Black Temple, which basically was BC completed finally. The second patch was Voice Chat, which very few asked for or even cared about. I didn't count patch 2.0 as a "patch" since it was basically the expansion release itself.
Now in the LK-era, we are coming up on 3 months and no patch yet. I'm not counting the "mini" patches, just the major ones that, supposedly, add something significant to the game.
This just gets better and better. Kudos on the racist remark.
As an American, I think I can speak out against my own. I won't go into detail, but If you dont see it. . . your part of the problem.
I'm pretty sure if a black guy spoke out about the black community they wouldn't call him racist.
Gaming is serious business.
Since launch of Wotlk we already had a lot of changes: the PvP season and gear and weapons were added on Dec 17th. If you don't call that major..., go see the higher activity on Xfire....
Patch 3.08 made zillions of changes to the classes (a mere 3 weeks after the PvP launch) and ... it made availbable new loot (Wintergrasp) with higher resilience.
As a matter of fact 3.08 - dispite its initial 2 days hic-up, turned out one of the very best PvP tuning patches. I am very pleased with this patch now.
The PvP feeling of pre WotlK is coming back, we are not quite there yet but it is Wow again.
Since TBC Blizzard has a major content patch every 5/6 months, adjusting everything to the same level. Be it PVE, PvP or crafting/professions. This makes for a nice glide for every kind of player.
Blizzard stated that for WotLK they have programmed everything in advance on that cycle: so the new 3.1 patch (which will be the biggest Raid instance ever according to Blizz) is published when people are ready for it. My guess is end of march/ beginning of April.
It happens to be seen if the 5-6 months content patch cycles will be shortened or not. But I think it will depend on player activity and general progress.
Because Blizzard has all stats they know exactly how many % have reached what (in professions - PVE - PvP).
It is no use of publishing content without watching the overall progress of hi level characters. It would unbalance the game and its mechanics in the end game. For those who just play more and "harder", the second alt fills the small gap. But I think the 5-6 month update cycle is about perfect for 90% of its players.
You can't say a mini patch is a "major" addition to WoW (or any game). That is, after all, why it's a "mini-patch". The major patches were 2.3, 2.4, etc not the 2.3.x or whatever. Mini patches are usually tweaks and bug fixes. If someone doesn't pvp, they wouldnt even notice that "major" patch you speak of.
You can't count Xfire for reliable numbers. I don't use it nor does anyone I know of who plays WoW. According to Xfire there are some MMO's out there that don't even have subscribers, so how are they still up and running?
The "pvp feeling" is more all about wintergrasp. Battlegrounds are still rather meh, after all winning is meaningless still. At 80 you don't even NEED marks anymore to buy gear just honor points. The meaningful days were before this so-called improved honor system, where you need rep and wins to gear up. Now Blizzard just wants you to run wintergrasp or arenas.
Your point about major patch every 5/6 months is not entirely accurate. From launch to BC we averaged a major patch every 2.4 months. From BC to Wrath the average went up to one major patch every 5.5 months. I can only hope that Wrath we will get that number smaller.
This just gets better and better. Kudos on the racist remark.
As an American, I think I can speak out against my own. I won't go into detail, but If you dont see it. . . your part of the problem.
I'm pretty sure if a black guy spoke out about the black community they wouldn't call him racist.
Yes, iam part of the problem because i dont agree with your bullshit and everything you say is the ultimate truth. Just beacuse you're an american and you speak out against your own, dosen't automatically make you right.
WoW didnt work for you because it was too easy and i respect that. But hey lets just throw a blanket statement on all americans and the wow community cause apparently being a rebel without a cause is too cool for skool these days.
If you hate the game so much and its easymode craving community why even bother coming here and posting on a board thats dedicated to it? I mean if i didnt like something id stay the hell away from it. But virually every post made on these boards is by someone who either dosent play the game or dosent like it. Is it really that hard to let go?
Then heed your own words and not come back. Forums are for discussing ideas and points of view. If everyone agreed, forums wouldn't exist.
Regards,
Piiv. =P
Played:SWG,WoW,AoC,Aion,FE,CoH,CoV,TabRas,LoTR,L2,Ryzom,Eve
Looking for: an mmo home.
I sort of get what you mean by this, but the thing to remember is that most of those patches from original release to BC were adding content that we now take for granted like Battlegrounds, honour systems, battlemasters, linked auction houses, improvements to levelling and so on. By the time we got to BC the basic structure of the game was pretty well complete and the development cycle switched to creating more content around that structure and tweaking it as required to fit that new content.
I have never really had a problem with the patch rate as it has always seemed to just 'fit' for the casual pace, which i always maintain that Blizzard aims at more so than anything else. The only time i would have an issue is if they were taking this amount of time and the patches were released bugged to the hilt.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I wouldn't say that are releasing the game thing over and over again. Even though only have like 3 or 4 IP that they keep releasing over and over again. Just how similar is it from one another? Can anyone honestly tell me that D2 is just D1 with a new coat of paint just like almost all the other Sequel that other crappy developer is pumping out today? How bout the similarity between Warcraft II and Warcraft III compare to the like of Command and Conquer 1 through 50. Up to date, wow have 2 paid expansion and 6 (maybe?) content patch so other than the regular subscription, you have to paid an extra of 50 to alway get the lastest wow content complare to EQ2 like 10th paid expansion now which transte to go know how much extra cash have to go out of your pocket to alway get all the lastest content in EQ2 and just how many of those expansion change the game so profoundly as Blizzard did with WoW that warrent them to charge for the new content?
You know, OP. More people would agree with you if you cut the fluff and vitriol out of your post and distilled it to the core statement and question. This is what you said, basically:
Blizzard's current product pipeline, as we know it, is entirely comprised of sequels. When you look at their last eleven retail offerings (excluding externally-developed Blizzard products like Hellfire), all of them belong to their three core franchises, four are expansion packs, and three are direct sequels. I believe this excessive reliance on sequalization is dampening the creativity of the studio. Since creativity is essentially one-half of a game development's capital, as important as their production ability, this may spell doom in the studio's future.
The only real counterarguments are as follows:
1. Blizzard's quality, to date, has been high regardless of these policies, judging by critical and commercial response.
2. Even if you perceive a relative lack of innovation, this has not translated into a decline in sales.
3. Blizzard actually is developing a new franchise, their "secret" MMORPG. I have it on good authority that the secret MMORPG is a ninja kitten vs Golden Retriever puppies piloting mechs RvR game.
Seriously, we have no idea what it is. If it really just blows everybody away, then we'll know that Blizzard still has the magic that went into their early titles. If it's shit, then I guess you'll be right. So I think your idea holds merit, OP, but it also has holes.
lmao what the hell are you smoking? The guys who were there at the start of wow like Metzen, Kaplan, Afrasiabi,etc. are still very much a part of it. Great flame bait post though and iam sure it will definately attract alot more people with "predictions" and "facts".
But then again its the usual story on these anti-wow boards and i only come here for comic relief. Thanks for the hillarious read
And who the heck are these guys you mentioned? No one knows, no one cares whether they were there or not. If anything, your post is the comical one..but no one is laughing.
SOE is infinitely more greedy than Blizzard.
Don't bash Blizzard because they make Billions of dollars off subscriptions. They make that money fair and square from subscriptions that are the exact same price as the majority of other P2P MMOs. It's not like they have a $30 subscription (SOE) and RMT shop (SOE again). Blizzard does have the Trading Card Game, but most people that buy these cards buy them to play the trading card game. Not to get some rare item (SOE yet again). The only problem I have with Blizzard is that when they released both TBC and WotLK, they made it so Legendary items are worthless to meager common items from the new expansion. I could see if they did this with epics, and wouldn't have a problem with it. Legendary items should at least be equal to rare level 80 (or 70 for TBC). I have only 3 reasons I don't play WoW anymore. Biggest one is what I just mentioned. Second is that I missed 'real' PvP and went back to DAoC. Third, the stats and damages you do now with WotLK is like the original game but on Steroids. It just doesn't have the same feel in WotLK endgame as it does in the original game. You have people hitting each other for 20k or more now, and it's become nothing but 1-3 hit gankfest in pvp.