Seriously, what the hell would be the point of having different races if they were all exactly the same? Of course races are going to be more adept at some things and not so much at others. That's so fundamental that I just take it for granted and I'm amazed that it's even a topic for discussion. I sincerely hope that races in Darkfall have major distinction or I will be severely turned off and disappointed.
Dorf does NOT equal fat pygmie with a beard. It's a completely different species. Let's all hope Aventurine realizes this and that it's featured in the game. Amen.
PS. Oh and for those that can't seem to fathom it, Sandbox does NOT mean you can do ANYTHING. You just CANT ride your tricycle in the sandbox, you will become bogged down instantly! Translated to a fantasy MMO, that means you still have to follow the general rules of the setting. You can't have a gauss cannon, you can't build starbases and orcs are stronger than humans.
Perhaps the information is outdated, just as the line about prestige classes which I believe were dropped as well.
nope, not outdated....has been confirmed by beta testers( at least on leak sites, take with a grain of salt) and makes sense. Why should every race have equal stats? What would be the point? It would make absolutely no sense if a human could make a dwarf racial weapon or vice-versa. I like the way its set up, but that of course is my opinion.
Are you people serious? We aren't talking about about "being better" it's "not being able to get all the skills/spells"
Nobody cares about a dwarf swinging and doing say 5% more damage, or doing 5% less spell damage, that's not a big deal, and can be overcome. The problem is getting more skills and spells which are way more important then just small %.
In WoW if you couldn't learn some of your class defining spells because you were the wrong race, it'd be unfair. And guess what, it was.
Look at priests, they used to have race abilities and it made some priests far better so that if you weren't the right race you weren't wanted. Undead were the best horde priests up till the change, there was NO REASON AT ALL for troll or blood elf. And on human side, night elves and humans were always wishy washy with dwarves being the dominant priest due to fear ward. Draenai came in pretty strongly though.
These were big things that got removed because it was a horrible decision.
But go ahead, say not getting the top spells and melee abilities or crafting recipes based on your race is fine. I mean, we all want to be blacksmiths and not be able to craft the best things.
I agree with the last poster, one thing is to give some bonuses to the various races so they are different (so the orc is stronger, the elf is smarter and the dwarf is tougher) but here we are talking about limiting SKILL development, so somehow impliyng that the best human smith, for some odd reason, just cannot learn certain parts of that skill, even if he has gazillions skill points and is considered a super master smith.
Give dwarves a 5% better chance at a critical success in blacksmithing if you want, but limiting skills based on race may be "realistic", but it also seems a bad idea to me.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
I love that different races are better or worse at certain things.
To me it makes no sense at all not to have it this way.
If every race is exactly the same, and can do exactly the same things at the exact same level then why have different races at all. At that point they just become a different skin.
Sounds to me like just more of the "All or nothing" sandbox crowd gripping. Sandbox doesnt mean all or nothing, it means you are free to do what you want when you want. There is no assurance that you will be any good at it.
Are you people serious? We aren't talking about about "being better" it's "not being able to get all the skills/spells" Nobody cares about a dwarf swinging and doing say 5% more damage, or doing 5% less spell damage, that's not a big deal, and can be overcome. The problem is getting more skills and spells which are way more important then just small %. In WoW if you couldn't learn some of your class defining spells because you were the wrong race, it'd be unfair. And guess what, it was. Look at priests, they used to have race abilities and it made some priests far better so that if you weren't the right race you weren't wanted. Undead were the best horde priests up till the change, there was NO REASON AT ALL for troll or blood elf. And on human side, night elves and humans were always wishy washy with dwarves being the dominant priest due to fear ward. Draenai came in pretty strongly though. These were big things that got removed because it was a horrible decision. But go ahead, say not getting the top spells and melee abilities or crafting recipes based on your race is fine. I mean, we all want to be blacksmiths and not be able to craft the best things.
I have to disagree with you. WOW's paritiy changes between races were just one of the many steps backwards in my opinion.
Players should have to make tough choices in building their characters, and should never be able to be equal to everyone, all the time. If I wanted that, I'd play FPS games.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Are you people serious? We aren't talking about about "being better" it's "not being able to get all the skills/spells" Nobody cares about a dwarf swinging and doing say 5% more damage, or doing 5% less spell damage, that's not a big deal, and can be overcome. The problem is getting more skills and spells which are way more important then just small %. In WoW if you couldn't learn some of your class defining spells because you were the wrong race, it'd be unfair. And guess what, it was. Look at priests, they used to have race abilities and it made some priests far better so that if you weren't the right race you weren't wanted. Undead were the best horde priests up till the change, there was NO REASON AT ALL for troll or blood elf. And on human side, night elves and humans were always wishy washy with dwarves being the dominant priest due to fear ward. Draenai came in pretty strongly though. These were big things that got removed because it was a horrible decision. But go ahead, say not getting the top spells and melee abilities or crafting recipes based on your race is fine. I mean, we all want to be blacksmiths and not be able to craft the best things.
For the love of god, when did MMO players completely lose the ability to make that (semi) hard decision.
If you want to make the very best armor in game then play a ugly ass Dwarf, if you have no desire to play an ugly ass Dwarf then you give up the ability to make the very best armor in game.
Back in the old days we call these things Lore. You see, in pretty much any standard fantasy (which Darkfall falls under) Dwarves were the best smiths. Nothing new here. In this same fantasy Dwarves were never all that good at casting spells, which is why you rarely see Dwarven Mages in fantasy settings.
So if you play a Elf you goes for the casting side of things but you still like to make armor you will be able to make really good armor and cast exceptionally good fireballs where your Dwarf friend who choses the same route will be able to make exceptionally good armor but only be able to cast good fireballs. You see, this is balance.
Again, if every race is the same then just make one damn race.
This is just a very little bit of give and take, sorry if that goes against your all or nothing gamestyle.
I played a Halfling Warrior in EQ for quite some time. I didnt do it because he hit the hardest or had the best AC, i did it because he was fun to play. He also leveled the fastest and had the best agility/dex so he could hit faster. So it got closer in the long run but he was still not as good as an Ogre Warrior. But then i didnt want to play a giant sized ugly ass Ogre, so i didnt expect to be the very best Warrior.
First off to the first person who quoted me. It was a step forward for priests, I'd say try playing one, but frankly that wouldn't help the situation now, try playing one in vanilla, where guilds were recreuiting dwarf priests and ignoring other priests if they had the opportunity. There still is race defining featrures but they are just for the race, they aren't impacting the class. You aren't hindered in your priest spells now. And that's nice.
But different races simply can't be different classes.
To the next poster.
Shut up about lore. Seriously, you fail. does lore state that there has never been a master human blacksmith? OR does lore state that theres never been a human who can use a weapon to it's full extent?
The thing is, theres no reason why a player should be excluded from learning spells recipes and skills, being better at it is different. Right now I can go back the same cuisine you see from pro chefs but will it turn out as well as them? No it wouldn't. Not even close. But i could still make what they make.
That's the issue here. Theres no reason why a dwarf can't cast any spell he wants if he practices enough. He just shouldn't be as good at it . IF you even agree with that logic
I'm not sure if your just a fanboy or a troll, or what, but you are argueing against people being the same, yet making it so people roll different races to be the same role as everyone else. If you want to be a caster be a elf, if you want to be a blacksmith be a dwarf, if you want to be a fighter be a orc.
Why not just give each race a set class and calll it a day.
And to be honest, nobody really cares if you chose a bad race combo just for shits and giggles in eq. Sure you had fun, and you weren't the best warrior. Tell me, why would i want to play with you, your not the only warrior on the server, and i don't need you for a friend, and i have no desire to be your friend.
Why would i roll a human if i wanted to be a blacksmith? I wouldn't is that fair, that the entire metalshaping proffession is just dwarves. Why even bother being it on another race? You can't make the best stuff, therefore it's pointless to be it. Since eventually you'll cap and have no reason to even have the skill anymore because you have to buy the best stuff anyway.
it also limits choices for fighting styles. If i wanted to fight in melee I should roll a melee race and just go with it.
"play what you have fun with" Is fine when you play a game where you are just going with the flow and not trying to achieve or do anything.
I'm all for race bonus when they don't affect the overall balance of things but still give incentives.
+% damage? sure
+% skill gain? suppose so
Where do we draw the line? If you want to tailor be a elf, if you want to be a leatherworker be a human, if you want to be a butcher be a orc.
Let me ask you this, are you saying that a human being can never become a better blacksmith than a dwarf? That's kinda silly. Theres no reason why a human couldn't. "because dwaves are raised as blacksmiths" .... no
1. Dwarves can not be all blacksmiths, sorry. Theres no such thing in any form of dwarf lore, where every single dwarf had his own forge and was a blacksmith. If a dwarf never forged anything before in his life(wwhich is quite probable) then theres no reason why he should be able to advance further then a human that has worked his entire life as a blacksmith.
Who are you to say that? Did the deelopers say "every player who makes a dwarf and takes blacksmithing was raised as a blacksmith" Or "every human who takes up blacksmithing never did it before"
Now not only are the developers capping our skills, but they are also deciding what type of history our individual characte had? What if i was a exiled dwarf who sturdied under a grand mage and he taught me all his spells? "sorry your a dwarf you can't learn these spells"
Why not? For a sandbox you people sure are willing to bend over and take it when it comes to freedom restrictions
seems the sanbox lovers suddenly have changed thier deffinition of sandbox. i have read so many arguments about why sandbox is great. " we can be anything we want and as good at anything if we put the effort in" now all of a sudden they dont want that?
I see what the poster means. i Have read every single Salvatore/Draizzt book and to me thats what sanbox should mean. maybe dwarfs should have a bonus to learn crafting and elves have a bonus to learn magic, but for the elven players that want to learn to master smithing, they can with hard work and determination. and i dont mean just throw time into it. In EQ i made a trueshot bow at fletching skill of 74, yes i failed 27 times before finally making one, and yes it took me weeks to collect all the materials, and yes i was about to give up..again. but when i made it it felt great ( and this was before even kunark btw ) that to me is how it should be!
If everyone could have max everything then it would be 3d runescape =p
edit:
I doubt it will be like a "cap", it will probaly be like "Dwarves have a +5% chance to gain double xp when making an item" or "Dwarves can blacksmith 20% faster". I could be wrong though, just guessing
If they make it difficult enough then most average players wont be bothered about maxing everything.
But why shouldnt players that want to be able to? someone else said being race specific reminds him more of RL? how? as a human male i can try to be anything i want to in RL!
want to be a nurse? then train. racing driver? then train! astronaut? then train!.
nothing seems to restrict me other than me. why should Roleplaying in a game be any different?
If they make it difficult enough then most average players wont be bothered about maxing everything. But why shouldnt players that want to be able to? someone else said being race specific reminds him more of RL? how? as a human male i can try to be anything i want to in RL! want to be a nurse? then train. racing driver? then train! astronaut? then train!. nothing seems to restrict me other than me. why should Roleplaying in a game be any different?
Sad to say that RL isnt like that at all.. You play the cards your dealt. Some are better then others.
About the race thing, i'm all for it. The difference will be minor anyway.
I agree some get better opertunities than others friend, i'm with you there. but thats not to say that i can't strive for these things. look around you and see how many have scraped themselves up from the bottom to do things they never thought possible.
I have to admire these people for it. every single person in the world to me starts of with respect. some lose it others gain it. the ones that gain it just show me that in RL you are your own worst enemie but also your best friend. never let anything hold you down!
I'm not actually aginst race restrictions btw i just can see what the OP is saying.
I wouldn't worry much about it. These things seem to balance out after awhile and Darkfall seems like the type of MMO to take racials into consideration. I would still roll WHATEVER you want, because I think despite the ups and downs, you will be happy with whoever you chose.
Bad advice. Theres no reason to make a non dwarf blacksmith.
If dwarfs had a +% in blacksmithing that would be different and would follow the lore. But Excluding abilities to certain races pigeon holes everyone into a class/race based game.
Dont know if you played Mount and blade but it would be like making the only characters who could ride on the high lvl horses are those who choose a steepe background. If you wanted a calvalry character who was born in nobility or on the streets you couldnt. He would be just a wanna be. And could never know the pure awesomeness of jousting.
The ability of making a non blacksmith dwarf is an illusion of choice. No one who wants a main, whose a blacksmith, would pick a non dwarf. Maybe the alt-aholic would or someone who just bsing around but no serious guild would have a human blacksmith.
I can somewhat agree that making the highest-end spells race-specific would be a bust, but it definitely wouldn't be a game breaker for me. As long as the races have differing stats at the very least; there are a few ways to define "sandbox", and mine is doing whatever I want in a game to the limits of my avatar's inherent limitations.
I agree with the last poster, one thing is to give some bonuses to the various races so they are different (so the orc is stronger, the elf is smarter and the dwarf is tougher) but here we are talking about limiting SKILL development, so somehow impliyng that the best human smith, for some odd reason, just cannot learn certain parts of that skill, even if he has gazillions skill points and is considered a super master smith. Give dwarves a 5% better chance at a critical success in blacksmithing if you want, but limiting skills based on race may be "realistic", but it also seems a bad idea to me.
Im starting to think that most of the posters in this thread only played themepark pvp games.
With comments like "if everyone is the same, why have races". Players saying predetermined limitation make a game better is crazy.
Have you guys ever played a sandbox before? Since when is having access to every ability mean everyone would be the same? Look at games like Eve, ryzom, Swg and UO was everyone the same in those games?
I have no problem with races having different starting attributes or even damage bonuses for specific abilities. My problem is Spell and skill limitations on races. thats a no, no.
Atleast the quoted poster understands and a couple others in this thread.
First off to the first person who quoted me. It was a step forward for priests, I'd say try playing one, but frankly that wouldn't help the situation now, try playing one in vanilla, where guilds were recreuiting dwarf priests and ignoring other priests if they had the opportunity. There still is race defining featrures but they are just for the race, they aren't impacting the class. You aren't hindered in your priest spells now. And that's nice. But different races simply can't be different classes.
To the next poster. Shut up about lore. Seriously, you fail. does lore state that there has never been a master human blacksmith? OR does lore state that theres never been a human who can use a weapon to it's full extent? The thing is, theres no reason why a player should be excluded from learning spells recipes and skills, being better at it is different. Right now I can go back the same cuisine you see from pro chefs but will it turn out as well as them? No it wouldn't. Not even close. But i could still make what they make. That's the issue here. Theres no reason why a dwarf can't cast any spell he wants if he practices enough. He just shouldn't be as good at it . IF you even agree with that logic I'm not sure if your just a fanboy or a troll, or what, but you are argueing against people being the same, yet making it so people roll different races to be the same role as everyone else. If you want to be a caster be a elf, if you want to be a blacksmith be a dwarf, if you want to be a fighter be a orc. Why not just give each race a set class and calll it a day. And to be honest, nobody really cares if you chose a bad race combo just for shits and giggles in eq. Sure you had fun, and you weren't the best warrior. Tell me, why would i want to play with you, your not the only warrior on the server, and i don't need you for a friend, and i have no desire to be your friend. Why would i roll a human if i wanted to be a blacksmith? I wouldn't is that fair, that the entire metalshaping proffession is just dwarves. Why even bother being it on another race? You can't make the best stuff, therefore it's pointless to be it. Since eventually you'll cap and have no reason to even have the skill anymore because you have to buy the best stuff anyway. it also limits choices for fighting styles. If i wanted to fight in melee I should roll a melee race and just go with it. "play what you have fun with" Is fine when you play a game where you are just going with the flow and not trying to achieve or do anything. I'm all for race bonus when they don't affect the overall balance of things but still give incentives. +% damage? sure +% skill gain? suppose so Where do we draw the line? If you want to tailor be a elf, if you want to be a leatherworker be a human, if you want to be a butcher be a orc. Let me ask you this, are you saying that a human being can never become a better blacksmith than a dwarf? That's kinda silly. Theres no reason why a human couldn't. "because dwaves are raised as blacksmiths" .... no 1. Dwarves can not be all blacksmiths, sorry. Theres no such thing in any form of dwarf lore, where every single dwarf had his own forge and was a blacksmith. If a dwarf never forged anything before in his life(wwhich is quite probable) then theres no reason why he should be able to advance further then a human that has worked his entire life as a blacksmith. Who are you to say that? Did the deelopers say "every player who makes a dwarf and takes blacksmithing was raised as a blacksmith" Or "every human who takes up blacksmithing never did it before" Now not only are the developers capping our skills, but they are also deciding what type of history our individual characte had? What if i was a exiled dwarf who sturdied under a grand mage and he taught me all his spells? "sorry your a dwarf you can't learn these spells" Why not? For a sandbox you people sure are willing to bend over and take it when it comes to freedom restrictions
Ah, so i was right, it is an all or nothing thing.
And i didnt say that Dwarves had to be the best at Blacksmithing, i said that fantasy lore does support that, and sadly for you it appears that the developers do also. You can always just not play the game if it bothers you that much. Or you could just bitch and whine because it doenst exactly support what you want and then of course get all pissed when someone else wants to change something to thier liking which isnt your liking.
Besides, you dont even know what they have done yet. Perhaps it is really nothing much and there is very little difference. You may be getting all excited just a little early.
From as long as I've been reading fantasy novels and been playing fantasy video games, Dwarves have always been phenomenal (the best ever known in any fantasy setting) at blacksmithing/armor/weapon crafting. Also, in the stories and lore I have read, Dwarves also downright hate, fear, and despise magic and magic users.
The first time I played WoW, I was unpleasently surprised to see that Dwarves could be priests. To me, it made no sense (from all the stories and lore I've read this is unheard of).
That's just my take on the history of dwarves...
...on another note. Having the Dwarves be the best at blacksmithing and only allowing them to create certain items will open up more opportunities than you might imagine. Dwarves will be sought for their mastery of metal working. While lets say Humans are the best Alchemists (I don't even know if there will be an alchemy profession, just bare with me), then Humans will be sought for their skill in creating potions and the likes.
Does this make the game worse? Not in my opinion. I feel that this is actually a good idea, and will provide a more believable feel for the game world.
Finally, I imagine all races can train in more than one profession. If you're a human and you train in Alchemy and Blacksmithing, you'll still have the benefits of both professions. You'll have an advantage over dwarves (assuming alchemy is a profession and Humans are the best at it) in the alchemy craft, and will need to bug dwarves for their advanced items. But dwarves will need the potions that only your race can make. Could open up opportunities for bartering.
I agree that races should have some bonuses and advantages in certain aspects of the game, to maintain a sense of uniqueness and personality. As long as those bonuses don't make the race overpowered, then it's fine by me.
"Good people are good because they've come to wisdom through failure. We get very little wisdom from success, you know." William Saroyan
Ok, this infor have ben around for about five years.
And Darkfall features different races with different abilitys. A Elf is not a thin human, a dwrf is not a short human. Its different races with different cultures.
How can that be so hard to understand?
And you dont automatickly becomes a grat crafter just because you choose a Dwarf. That would as stupid as you become a goos archer just because you choose a Elf. You will jabe to fight, train and learn just as everyone else. And i bet the OP doesnt even gonna be trying to become the absolutely best *profession* on the whole server.
So stop whiningabout that now. Choose a race and play it.
Comments
Seriously, what the hell would be the point of having different races if they were all exactly the same? Of course races are going to be more adept at some things and not so much at others. That's so fundamental that I just take it for granted and I'm amazed that it's even a topic for discussion. I sincerely hope that races in Darkfall have major distinction or I will be severely turned off and disappointed.
Dorf does NOT equal fat pygmie with a beard. It's a completely different species. Let's all hope Aventurine realizes this and that it's featured in the game. Amen.
PS. Oh and for those that can't seem to fathom it, Sandbox does NOT mean you can do ANYTHING. You just CANT ride your tricycle in the sandbox, you will become bogged down instantly! Translated to a fantasy MMO, that means you still have to follow the general rules of the setting. You can't have a gauss cannon, you can't build starbases and orcs are stronger than humans.
nope, not outdated....has been confirmed by beta testers( at least on leak sites, take with a grain of salt) and makes sense. Why should every race have equal stats? What would be the point? It would make absolutely no sense if a human could make a dwarf racial weapon or vice-versa. I like the way its set up, but that of course is my opinion.
Are you people serious? We aren't talking about about "being better" it's "not being able to get all the skills/spells"
Nobody cares about a dwarf swinging and doing say 5% more damage, or doing 5% less spell damage, that's not a big deal, and can be overcome. The problem is getting more skills and spells which are way more important then just small %.
In WoW if you couldn't learn some of your class defining spells because you were the wrong race, it'd be unfair. And guess what, it was.
Look at priests, they used to have race abilities and it made some priests far better so that if you weren't the right race you weren't wanted. Undead were the best horde priests up till the change, there was NO REASON AT ALL for troll or blood elf. And on human side, night elves and humans were always wishy washy with dwarves being the dominant priest due to fear ward. Draenai came in pretty strongly though.
These were big things that got removed because it was a horrible decision.
But go ahead, say not getting the top spells and melee abilities or crafting recipes based on your race is fine. I mean, we all want to be blacksmiths and not be able to craft the best things.
I agree with the last poster, one thing is to give some bonuses to the various races so they are different (so the orc is stronger, the elf is smarter and the dwarf is tougher) but here we are talking about limiting SKILL development, so somehow impliyng that the best human smith, for some odd reason, just cannot learn certain parts of that skill, even if he has gazillions skill points and is considered a super master smith.
Give dwarves a 5% better chance at a critical success in blacksmithing if you want, but limiting skills based on race may be "realistic", but it also seems a bad idea to me.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
I love that different races are better or worse at certain things.
To me it makes no sense at all not to have it this way.
If every race is exactly the same, and can do exactly the same things at the exact same level then why have different races at all. At that point they just become a different skin.
Sounds to me like just more of the "All or nothing" sandbox crowd gripping. Sandbox doesnt mean all or nothing, it means you are free to do what you want when you want. There is no assurance that you will be any good at it.
I have to disagree with you. WOW's paritiy changes between races were just one of the many steps backwards in my opinion.
Players should have to make tough choices in building their characters, and should never be able to be equal to everyone, all the time. If I wanted that, I'd play FPS games.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For the love of god, when did MMO players completely lose the ability to make that (semi) hard decision.
If you want to make the very best armor in game then play a ugly ass Dwarf, if you have no desire to play an ugly ass Dwarf then you give up the ability to make the very best armor in game.
Back in the old days we call these things Lore. You see, in pretty much any standard fantasy (which Darkfall falls under) Dwarves were the best smiths. Nothing new here. In this same fantasy Dwarves were never all that good at casting spells, which is why you rarely see Dwarven Mages in fantasy settings.
So if you play a Elf you goes for the casting side of things but you still like to make armor you will be able to make really good armor and cast exceptionally good fireballs where your Dwarf friend who choses the same route will be able to make exceptionally good armor but only be able to cast good fireballs. You see, this is balance.
Again, if every race is the same then just make one damn race.
This is just a very little bit of give and take, sorry if that goes against your all or nothing gamestyle.
I played a Halfling Warrior in EQ for quite some time. I didnt do it because he hit the hardest or had the best AC, i did it because he was fun to play. He also leveled the fastest and had the best agility/dex so he could hit faster. So it got closer in the long run but he was still not as good as an Ogre Warrior. But then i didnt want to play a giant sized ugly ass Ogre, so i didnt expect to be the very best Warrior.
First off to the first person who quoted me. It was a step forward for priests, I'd say try playing one, but frankly that wouldn't help the situation now, try playing one in vanilla, where guilds were recreuiting dwarf priests and ignoring other priests if they had the opportunity. There still is race defining featrures but they are just for the race, they aren't impacting the class. You aren't hindered in your priest spells now. And that's nice.
But different races simply can't be different classes.
To the next poster.
Shut up about lore. Seriously, you fail. does lore state that there has never been a master human blacksmith? OR does lore state that theres never been a human who can use a weapon to it's full extent?
The thing is, theres no reason why a player should be excluded from learning spells recipes and skills, being better at it is different. Right now I can go back the same cuisine you see from pro chefs but will it turn out as well as them? No it wouldn't. Not even close. But i could still make what they make.
That's the issue here. Theres no reason why a dwarf can't cast any spell he wants if he practices enough. He just shouldn't be as good at it . IF you even agree with that logic
I'm not sure if your just a fanboy or a troll, or what, but you are argueing against people being the same, yet making it so people roll different races to be the same role as everyone else. If you want to be a caster be a elf, if you want to be a blacksmith be a dwarf, if you want to be a fighter be a orc.
Why not just give each race a set class and calll it a day.
And to be honest, nobody really cares if you chose a bad race combo just for shits and giggles in eq. Sure you had fun, and you weren't the best warrior. Tell me, why would i want to play with you, your not the only warrior on the server, and i don't need you for a friend, and i have no desire to be your friend.
Why would i roll a human if i wanted to be a blacksmith? I wouldn't is that fair, that the entire metalshaping proffession is just dwarves. Why even bother being it on another race? You can't make the best stuff, therefore it's pointless to be it. Since eventually you'll cap and have no reason to even have the skill anymore because you have to buy the best stuff anyway.
it also limits choices for fighting styles. If i wanted to fight in melee I should roll a melee race and just go with it.
"play what you have fun with" Is fine when you play a game where you are just going with the flow and not trying to achieve or do anything.
I'm all for race bonus when they don't affect the overall balance of things but still give incentives.
+% damage? sure
+% skill gain? suppose so
Where do we draw the line? If you want to tailor be a elf, if you want to be a leatherworker be a human, if you want to be a butcher be a orc.
Let me ask you this, are you saying that a human being can never become a better blacksmith than a dwarf? That's kinda silly. Theres no reason why a human couldn't. "because dwaves are raised as blacksmiths" .... no
1. Dwarves can not be all blacksmiths, sorry. Theres no such thing in any form of dwarf lore, where every single dwarf had his own forge and was a blacksmith. If a dwarf never forged anything before in his life(wwhich is quite probable) then theres no reason why he should be able to advance further then a human that has worked his entire life as a blacksmith.
Who are you to say that? Did the deelopers say "every player who makes a dwarf and takes blacksmithing was raised as a blacksmith" Or "every human who takes up blacksmithing never did it before"
Now not only are the developers capping our skills, but they are also deciding what type of history our individual characte had? What if i was a exiled dwarf who sturdied under a grand mage and he taught me all his spells? "sorry your a dwarf you can't learn these spells"
Why not? For a sandbox you people sure are willing to bend over and take it when it comes to freedom restrictions
Haahaa well spoken
It is hard to tell if a man is telling the truth when you know you would lie if you were in his place
seems the sanbox lovers suddenly have changed thier deffinition of sandbox. i have read so many arguments about why sandbox is great. " we can be anything we want and as good at anything if we put the effort in" now all of a sudden they dont want that?
I see what the poster means. i Have read every single Salvatore/Draizzt book and to me thats what sanbox should mean. maybe dwarfs should have a bonus to learn crafting and elves have a bonus to learn magic, but for the elven players that want to learn to master smithing, they can with hard work and determination. and i dont mean just throw time into it. In EQ i made a trueshot bow at fletching skill of 74, yes i failed 27 times before finally making one, and yes it took me weeks to collect all the materials, and yes i was about to give up..again. but when i made it it felt great ( and this was before even kunark btw ) that to me is how it should be!
Sandbox = no restrictions
If everyone could have max everything then it would be 3d runescape =p
edit:
I doubt it will be like a "cap", it will probaly be like "Dwarves have a +5% chance to gain double xp when making an item" or "Dwarves can blacksmith 20% faster". I could be wrong though, just guessing
If they make it difficult enough then most average players wont be bothered about maxing everything.
But why shouldnt players that want to be able to? someone else said being race specific reminds him more of RL? how? as a human male i can try to be anything i want to in RL!
want to be a nurse? then train. racing driver? then train! astronaut? then train!.
nothing seems to restrict me other than me. why should Roleplaying in a game be any different?
Sad to say that RL isnt like that at all.. You play the cards your dealt. Some are better then others.
About the race thing, i'm all for it. The difference will be minor anyway.
I agree some get better opertunities than others friend, i'm with you there. but thats not to say that i can't strive for these things. look around you and see how many have scraped themselves up from the bottom to do things they never thought possible.
I have to admire these people for it. every single person in the world to me starts of with respect. some lose it others gain it. the ones that gain it just show me that in RL you are your own worst enemie but also your best friend. never let anything hold you down!
I'm not actually aginst race restrictions btw i just can see what the OP is saying.
To the OP,
I wouldn't worry much about it. These things seem to balance out after awhile and Darkfall seems like the type of MMO to take racials into consideration. I would still roll WHATEVER you want, because I think despite the ups and downs, you will be happy with whoever you chose.
Bad advice. Theres no reason to make a non dwarf blacksmith.
If dwarfs had a +% in blacksmithing that would be different and would follow the lore. But Excluding abilities to certain races pigeon holes everyone into a class/race based game.
Dont know if you played Mount and blade but it would be like making the only characters who could ride on the high lvl horses are those who choose a steepe background. If you wanted a calvalry character who was born in nobility or on the streets you couldnt. He would be just a wanna be. And could never know the pure awesomeness of jousting.
The ability of making a non blacksmith dwarf is an illusion of choice. No one who wants a main, whose a blacksmith, would pick a non dwarf. Maybe the alt-aholic would or someone who just bsing around but no serious guild would have a human blacksmith.
I can somewhat agree that making the highest-end spells race-specific would be a bust, but it definitely wouldn't be a game breaker for me. As long as the races have differing stats at the very least; there are a few ways to define "sandbox", and mine is doing whatever I want in a game to the limits of my avatar's inherent limitations.
Im starting to think that most of the posters in this thread only played themepark pvp games.
With comments like "if everyone is the same, why have races". Players saying predetermined limitation make a game better is crazy.
Have you guys ever played a sandbox before? Since when is having access to every ability mean everyone would be the same? Look at games like Eve, ryzom, Swg and UO was everyone the same in those games?
I have no problem with races having different starting attributes or even damage bonuses for specific abilities. My problem is Spell and skill limitations on races. thats a no, no.
Atleast the quoted poster understands and a couple others in this thread.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
basically what this comes down to is getting upset because you cannot roleplay and min/max... what an odd combination of things to want to do.
Darkfall
Ah, so i was right, it is an all or nothing thing.
And i didnt say that Dwarves had to be the best at Blacksmithing, i said that fantasy lore does support that, and sadly for you it appears that the developers do also. You can always just not play the game if it bothers you that much. Or you could just bitch and whine because it doenst exactly support what you want and then of course get all pissed when someone else wants to change something to thier liking which isnt your liking.
Besides, you dont even know what they have done yet. Perhaps it is really nothing much and there is very little difference. You may be getting all excited just a little early.
From as long as I've been reading fantasy novels and been playing fantasy video games, Dwarves have always been phenomenal (the best ever known in any fantasy setting) at blacksmithing/armor/weapon crafting. Also, in the stories and lore I have read, Dwarves also downright hate, fear, and despise magic and magic users.
The first time I played WoW, I was unpleasently surprised to see that Dwarves could be priests. To me, it made no sense (from all the stories and lore I've read this is unheard of).
That's just my take on the history of dwarves...
...on another note. Having the Dwarves be the best at blacksmithing and only allowing them to create certain items will open up more opportunities than you might imagine. Dwarves will be sought for their mastery of metal working. While lets say Humans are the best Alchemists (I don't even know if there will be an alchemy profession, just bare with me), then Humans will be sought for their skill in creating potions and the likes.
Does this make the game worse? Not in my opinion. I feel that this is actually a good idea, and will provide a more believable feel for the game world.
Finally, I imagine all races can train in more than one profession. If you're a human and you train in Alchemy and Blacksmithing, you'll still have the benefits of both professions. You'll have an advantage over dwarves (assuming alchemy is a profession and Humans are the best at it) in the alchemy craft, and will need to bug dwarves for their advanced items. But dwarves will need the potions that only your race can make. Could open up opportunities for bartering.
I agree that races should have some bonuses and advantages in certain aspects of the game, to maintain a sense of uniqueness and personality. As long as those bonuses don't make the race overpowered, then it's fine by me.
"Good people are good because they've come to wisdom through failure. We get very little wisdom from success, you know." William Saroyan
Ok, this infor have ben around for about five years.
And Darkfall features different races with different abilitys. A Elf is not a thin human, a dwrf is not a short human. Its different races with different cultures.
How can that be so hard to understand?
And you dont automatickly becomes a grat crafter just because you choose a Dwarf. That would as stupid as you become a goos archer just because you choose a Elf. You will jabe to fight, train and learn just as everyone else. And i bet the OP doesnt even gonna be trying to become the absolutely best *profession* on the whole server.
So stop whiningabout that now. Choose a race and play it.