I agree with the corp espionage and everything else what puts the brakes on for me is the fact An alliance can be disbanded that fast, there is not a checks and balance issue to the fact where corps need to have a vote with a majority aggreeing to the split, in addition to the fact that yes BoB is at fault for not vetting/auditing their directors and entrusting Roles like that to peeps. I guarantee you that every big alliance in game and leadership have now realized just how vulnerable they are to this sort of thing. CCP will not hear the end of this for a while...All this emo rage is crazy.
there IS a good lesson learned here -- all the arrogant smart alec types -- need to learn a littler respect.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I agree with the corp espionage and everything else what puts the brakes on for me is the fact An alliance can be disbanded that fast, there is not a checks and balance issue to the fact where corps need to have a vote with a majority aggreeing to the split, in addition to the fact that yes BoB is at fault for not vetting/auditing their directors and entrusting Roles like that to peeps. I guarantee you that every big alliance in game and leadership have now realized just how vulnerable they are to this sort of thing. CCP will not hear the end of this for a while...All this emo rage is crazy.
Yeah, Goon did not beat BoB, nor is BOB gone... well the only thing that is gone is they have lost the BoB name... Yay Goon. will there be quite a bit of fighting in Delve in the near future but I seriously doubt anything but the new BoB2 alliance will either take control of Delve or Goon will just become the new BoB. I just have a feeling that Goon will not last as long as BoB as for as many people disliked BOB there are far more that frankly just dispise goons and only worked with them because BoB was the "big Evil" of the time.
no one despises goonswarm more than most of the goons.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I've read the whole situation and it seems like dodgey game mechanics to me that this has shown everyone that the whole Alliance system needs a revamp because no way should one guy be able to shut down a whole Alliance. In real life you have investors who all have a say and this is what Alliances are like.
Seems to me like exploiting bad gameplay mechanics and BoB has been unfairly been taken out of the game because of some prick who has nothing better to do than be a dickhead.
Kinda just shows me that the EVE community is one of the worst out there.
ok.
why is it ok for all the other times things like this happened?
exploiting game mechanics? someone did something that is ALLOWED... versus bob doing things like blobbing out systems in order to win, BEFORE there was a goonswarm?
the story told involves no exploit and bob very much got what they deserved -- karma isn't nice.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I know a lot of people already don't trust CCP because of earlier incidents so if they did a reroll, they'd completely destroy any credibiliaty they may have. Because of that I doubt we'll see a reroll, but perhaps we will see a fix to alliance mechanics. I believe something like this should be possible, but not with just one director.
have you given this opinion when it's occurred to people that aren't bob?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I've read the whole situation and it seems like dodgey game mechanics to me that this has shown everyone that the whole Alliance system needs a revamp because no way should one guy be able to shut down a whole Alliance. In real life you have investors who all have a say and this is what Alliances are like.
Seems to me like exploiting bad gameplay mechanics and BoB has been unfairly been taken out of the game because of some prick who has nothing better to do than be a dickhead.
Kinda just shows me that the EVE community is one of the worst out there.
ok.
why is it ok for all the other times things like this happened?
exploiting game mechanics? someone did something that is ALLOWED... versus bob doing things like blobbing out systems in order to win, BEFORE there was a goonswarm?
the story told involves no exploit and bob very much got what they deserved -- karma isn't nice.
I agree with you to an extent, but at the same time this has pointed out a big flaw in the Alliance management aspect of the game. I can undertstand somewhat if this were to happen at a corp level, but for an alliance thats pretty damn crazy. No checks in balances in place, im all for corporate espionage and the whole 9 yards but getting the rug pulled out from under your feet like that is kinda puts a dampner on things
As for blobing, ive done it, ive seen it done, ive been blobbled. Is it annoying? yes, is it effective? yes. Is there ever a fair 1v1 fight in eve?...Hardly. Overwhelming force is what is needed, but thats a whole other thread and topic up for game.
This is just a storm in a teacup if you ask me. It was the action of a few individuals, ie the bob director or the goon who hacked the account. Either way it is no big deal, Bob will reform either under the same name or another name, and re-claim all it has lost and more. Properpty, Sov and names dont mean much to an alliance as big as bob, its about the people, the people are still there and hence Bob will survive this easily. I bet they are relishing the prospect of reclaiming all they have lost, pew-pew ftw!
lol a shit storm in a teacup the size of the moon.
They lost their cyno network , cyno jammers , their store of hundreds of ships and fuel supplies for their cap fleet......but they just didnt loose it they gave it directly to the other side.
They may fight a logistics war to get this crap back but it will be from square 0......the trit prices are gonna double again.
....of course its all true i heard it on the internett.
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Rayalist I know a lot of people already don't trust CCP because of earlier incidents so if they did a reroll, they'd completely destroy any credibiliaty they may have. Because of that I doubt we'll see a reroll, but perhaps we will see a fix to alliance mechanics. I believe something like this should be possible, but not with just one director.
have you given this opinion when it's occurred to people that aren't bob?
I said nothing that indicated I was only sorry for BoB, but thanks for assuming!
oh i forgot in last 2 weeks bob got a goon director account that was closed then BoB open the account ( that is account sharing and is against EULA) offlined goon POS's so BoB can get SOVEREIGNTY in DG-
and NONE of GBC member say: shame that is NOT NICE
today BoB get disbanded and there was no EULA break NO hacking and perfectly legit and GBC is in tears
Many a corp/alliance has suffered this fate, that its BOB this time makes it epic.
If they were to roll this back, I'd have to say I'd quit, simple as that.
And I don't even have a huge stake, though I did fight against them on many occasion, there was no hatred or malice, they were just pixels on my screen.
People were going around saying there were only 2 or 3 factions in the game and that no one would ever unseat them.
Proves how wrong they were.
EVE's great that way, the landscape never stays static.
Here's a prediction though. BOB won't fight to regain Delve, they'll hold off and move into the new territory thats coming active in the next few months and try to establish their new empire there instead.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Dear sir my standards are set by the following which can be found here ------> Women of healthy breeding age, Fine wine, snacking on endangered owl's and hearing goonie's go trolling on eve forums.. that is all.
To sum it up from CAOD
It takes 24 hours to quit a corp....1 second to disband an alliance...?????
I've read the whole situation and it seems like dodgey game mechanics to me that this has shown everyone that the whole Alliance system needs a revamp because no way should one guy be able to shut down a whole Alliance. In real life you have investors who all have a say and this is what Alliances are like.
Seems to me like exploiting bad gameplay mechanics and BoB has been unfairly been taken out of the game because of some prick who has nothing better to do than be a dickhead.
Kinda just shows me that the EVE community is one of the worst out there.
ok.
why is it ok for all the other times things like this happened?
exploiting game mechanics? someone did something that is ALLOWED... versus bob doing things like blobbing out systems in order to win, BEFORE there was a goonswarm?
the story told involves no exploit and bob very much got what they deserved -- karma isn't nice.
I agree with you to an extent, but at the same time this has pointed out a big flaw in the Alliance management aspect of the game. I can undertstand somewhat if this were to happen at a corp level, but for an alliance thats pretty damn crazy. No checks in balances in place, im all for corporate espionage and the whole 9 yards but getting the rug pulled out from under your feet like that is kinda puts a dampner on things
As for blobing, ive done it, ive seen it done, ive been blobbled. Is it annoying? yes, is it effective? yes. Is there ever a fair 1v1 fight in eve?...Hardly. Overwhelming force is what is needed, but thats a whole other thread and topic up for game.
so... you brought up this concern when it happened to other alliances? this is not something that is unknown. this is not the first time this has occured to an ALLIANCE.
you're missing the point about blobbing. i'll try again.
bob is not an innocent victim. anything bad that happens to bob -- bob has either done that, or attempted to do it, to others.
exploiting game mechanics? that would be (before goonswarm existed -- BEFORE GOONSWARM EXISTED -- BEFORE GOONSWARM EXISTED) the band of brothers exploiting game mechanics by blobbing a system to cause it to shut down, in order to win a battle in said system.
BEFORE GOONSWARM EXISTED, there was this alliance of exploiters -- the band of brothers/developers.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I don't play EvE, I don't have a horse in this race, and I don't even follow the war between BoB and Goonswarm (though I know it exists), but that fact that something like this can happen in EvE, changing the entire landscape of the game for all players, just strengthens my previous views about how amazing EvE is. God, I wish more MMOs had single servers.
I know a lot of people already don't trust CCP because of earlier incidents so if they did a reroll, they'd completely destroy any credibiliaty they may have. Because of that I doubt we'll see a reroll, but perhaps we will see a fix to alliance mechanics. I believe something like this should be possible, but not with just one director.
have you given this opinion when it's occurred to people that aren't bob?
I said nothing that indicated I was only sorry for BoB, but thanks for assuming!
why are YOU assuming something?
i asked a question, which you have not answered.
i see a LOT of QQing about poor bob. i do NOT remember seeing anyone QQ about this when it's happened to others.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
It was smart play - but still an exploit of bad mechanics. Not really a great deal different from any other exploit of the bad mechanics CCP has left in game except in the shear scope of the thing.
Of course CCP shouldn't do a roll-back. If they did they'd catch unending hell that would make the T20 thing look like a PR victory.
That said - metagaming extends to CCP too. Were I a BoB leader I'd probably ask / tell all my various allies, friends, etc to simply suspend all their subscriptions all at once. Doesn't even matter whether folks never actually stop playing (i.e. resub before the billing comes up) - if CCP sees the sudden closure of thousands of accounts all at once they may just panic into caving in.
The alliance system has been a bodge-job ever since it was introduced. Basically taking the same mechanics as a corp and bolting on other elements without actually dealing with the added complexities.
If this kind of thing isn't fixed it'll be interesting to see what happens. Once an organization gets to a certain size there is no way to prevent the necessity of relying on people you don't know - and since it's all in a game on the internet there isn't much to be done other than "trust".
Potentially you could see a lot fewer mega-powers in EVE because they won't want to grow beyond a point where their close friends / family / alt accounts can control everything. Or perhaps more burn out as people try to do it all themselves to guard against the spectre of a possible spy.
Sure it's an interesting situation, more interesting to see the fallout - but ultimately CCP is culpable for allowing such bad mechanics to exist - especially since it's happened to other corps before this.
This is probably a dumb quetion but I haven't been playing EVE that long so here goes.
I assume that the former BOB players are all currently engaged in attempting to escape their former holdings or forming a defense of them. If these guys have been in 0.0 for years... would they have up-to-date clones in safe Empire space? In other words... if they lose whatever clone resources they had in 0.0 space are they in danger of losing skillpoints when they die?
This is probably a dumb quetion but I haven't been playing EVE that long so here goes. I assume that the former BOB players are all currently engaged in attempting to escape their former holdings or forming a defense of them. If these guys have been in 0.0 for years... would they have up-to-date clones in safe Empire space? In other words... if they lose whatever clone resources they had in 0.0 space are they in danger of losing skillpoints when they die?
Delve has plenty of NPC stations which are not conquerable therefore cannot be taken over which contain clone vats. BoB has many many alt's in empire and 0.0 space. BoB will most likely ask for GBC (us) support for defense and will attempt to consolidate their assets, but they will fight, they have waaaaaay to much to loose by simply packing up and leaving, besides its gonna be f-ing nuts in Delve once everyone and their mother comes in to carve out a piece of the ex-bob territory pie.
This is probably a dumb quetion but I haven't been playing EVE that long so here goes. I assume that the former BOB players are all currently engaged in attempting to escape their former holdings or forming a defense of them. If these guys have been in 0.0 for years... would they have up-to-date clones in safe Empire space? In other words... if they lose whatever clone resources they had in 0.0 space are they in danger of losing skillpoints when they die?
Delve has plenty of NPC stations which are not conquerable therefore cannot be taken over which contain clone vats. BoB has many many alt's in empire and 0.0 space. BoB will most likely ask for GBC (us) support for defense and will attempt to consolidate their assets, but they will fight, they have waaaaaay to much to loose by simply packing up and leaving, besides its gonna be f-ing nuts in Delve once everyone and their mother comes in to carve out a piece of the ex-bob territory pie.
Thanks, I didn't realize there were NPC stations that far out of Empire space. Keep pushing my CORP to make the jump to 0.0 but "everyone isn't ready yet". Dangit I'm ready. And a free-for-all between the major players sounds like an epic time to jump into the real war!
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Bob has been around a long time every major alliance has taken a shot at them, goons being the only ones to last, its a bad ending to a long story but seeing what comes out of the void left will be interesting I'm guessing the bob members stills around will just re-unite under a new banner.
Comments
there IS a good lesson learned here -- all the arrogant smart alec types -- need to learn a littler respect.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Yeah, Goon did not beat BoB, nor is BOB gone... well the only thing that is gone is they have lost the BoB name... Yay Goon. will there be quite a bit of fighting in Delve in the near future but I seriously doubt anything but the new BoB2 alliance will either take control of Delve or Goon will just become the new BoB. I just have a feeling that Goon will not last as long as BoB as for as many people disliked BOB there are far more that frankly just dispise goons and only worked with them because BoB was the "big Evil" of the time.
no one despises goonswarm more than most of the goons.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
this is logic but guess what i dont want that and i bet bob members dont want that
if CCP change alliance mechanics there are 0 oportunity to make that to goons/any other alliance and bob cant complete a revenge in same way
BestSigEver :P
ok.
why is it ok for all the other times things like this happened?
exploiting game mechanics? someone did something that is ALLOWED... versus bob doing things like blobbing out systems in order to win, BEFORE there was a goonswarm?
the story told involves no exploit and bob very much got what they deserved -- karma isn't nice.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
have you given this opinion when it's occurred to people that aren't bob?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
ok.
why is it ok for all the other times things like this happened?
exploiting game mechanics? someone did something that is ALLOWED... versus bob doing things like blobbing out systems in order to win, BEFORE there was a goonswarm?
the story told involves no exploit and bob very much got what they deserved -- karma isn't nice.
I agree with you to an extent, but at the same time this has pointed out a big flaw in the Alliance management aspect of the game. I can undertstand somewhat if this were to happen at a corp level, but for an alliance thats pretty damn crazy. No checks in balances in place, im all for corporate espionage and the whole 9 yards but getting the rug pulled out from under your feet like that is kinda puts a dampner on things
As for blobing, ive done it, ive seen it done, ive been blobbled. Is it annoying? yes, is it effective? yes. Is there ever a fair 1v1 fight in eve?...Hardly. Overwhelming force is what is needed, but thats a whole other thread and topic up for game.
lol a shit storm in a teacup the size of the moon.
They lost their cyno network , cyno jammers , their store of hundreds of ships and fuel supplies for their cap fleet......but they just didnt loose it they gave it directly to the other side.
They may fight a logistics war to get this crap back but it will be from square 0......the trit prices are gonna double again.
....of course its all true i heard it on the internett.
have you given this opinion when it's occurred to people that aren't bob?
I said nothing that indicated I was only sorry for BoB, but thanks for assuming!
oh i forgot in last 2 weeks bob got a goon director account that was closed then BoB open the account ( that is account sharing and is against EULA) offlined goon POS's so BoB can get SOVEREIGNTY in DG-
and NONE of GBC member say: shame that is NOT NICE
today BoB get disbanded and there was no EULA break NO hacking and perfectly legit and GBC is in tears
where are your standards ????
BestSigEver :P
Many a corp/alliance has suffered this fate, that its BOB this time makes it epic.
If they were to roll this back, I'd have to say I'd quit, simple as that.
And I don't even have a huge stake, though I did fight against them on many occasion, there was no hatred or malice, they were just pixels on my screen.
People were going around saying there were only 2 or 3 factions in the game and that no one would ever unseat them.
Proves how wrong they were.
EVE's great that way, the landscape never stays static.
Here's a prediction though. BOB won't fight to regain Delve, they'll hold off and move into the new territory thats coming active in the next few months and try to establish their new empire there instead.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Dear sir my standards are set by the following which can be found here ------> Women of healthy breeding age, Fine wine, snacking on endangered owl's and hearing goonie's go trolling on eve forums.. that is all.
To sum it up from CAOD
It takes 24 hours to quit a corp....1 second to disband an alliance...
?????
drop.io/cvj4y86/asset/eve-radio-mittani-mp3
interview on eve-radio
BestSigEver :P
ok.
why is it ok for all the other times things like this happened?
exploiting game mechanics? someone did something that is ALLOWED... versus bob doing things like blobbing out systems in order to win, BEFORE there was a goonswarm?
the story told involves no exploit and bob very much got what they deserved -- karma isn't nice.
I agree with you to an extent, but at the same time this has pointed out a big flaw in the Alliance management aspect of the game. I can undertstand somewhat if this were to happen at a corp level, but for an alliance thats pretty damn crazy. No checks in balances in place, im all for corporate espionage and the whole 9 yards but getting the rug pulled out from under your feet like that is kinda puts a dampner on things
As for blobing, ive done it, ive seen it done, ive been blobbled. Is it annoying? yes, is it effective? yes. Is there ever a fair 1v1 fight in eve?...Hardly. Overwhelming force is what is needed, but thats a whole other thread and topic up for game.
so... you brought up this concern when it happened to other alliances? this is not something that is unknown. this is not the first time this has occured to an ALLIANCE.
you're missing the point about blobbing. i'll try again.
bob is not an innocent victim. anything bad that happens to bob -- bob has either done that, or attempted to do it, to others.
exploiting game mechanics? that would be (before goonswarm existed -- BEFORE GOONSWARM EXISTED -- BEFORE GOONSWARM EXISTED) the band of brothers exploiting game mechanics by blobbing a system to cause it to shut down, in order to win a battle in said system.
BEFORE GOONSWARM EXISTED, there was this alliance of exploiters -- the band of brothers/developers.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I don't play EvE, I don't have a horse in this race, and I don't even follow the war between BoB and Goonswarm (though I know it exists), but that fact that something like this can happen in EvE, changing the entire landscape of the game for all players, just strengthens my previous views about how amazing EvE is. God, I wish more MMOs had single servers.
i just wish i started earlier, but i am in no rush to start getting involved in null sec.
Im just gonna wait for the long winded statement from CCP that they are rolling the servers back . Anyone bet that they do it.
MAGA
As for me in GBC....to summarize best how i feel about delve invasion is "its a big S**t sandwhich and were all gonna have to take a bite"
Im still curious to know BoB's side of the story.
have you given this opinion when it's occurred to people that aren't bob?
I said nothing that indicated I was only sorry for BoB, but thanks for assuming!
why are YOU assuming something?
i asked a question, which you have not answered.
i see a LOT of QQing about poor bob. i do NOT remember seeing anyone QQ about this when it's happened to others.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
It was smart play - but still an exploit of bad mechanics. Not really a great deal different from any other exploit of the bad mechanics CCP has left in game except in the shear scope of the thing.
Of course CCP shouldn't do a roll-back. If they did they'd catch unending hell that would make the T20 thing look like a PR victory.
That said - metagaming extends to CCP too. Were I a BoB leader I'd probably ask / tell all my various allies, friends, etc to simply suspend all their subscriptions all at once. Doesn't even matter whether folks never actually stop playing (i.e. resub before the billing comes up) - if CCP sees the sudden closure of thousands of accounts all at once they may just panic into caving in.
The alliance system has been a bodge-job ever since it was introduced. Basically taking the same mechanics as a corp and bolting on other elements without actually dealing with the added complexities.
If this kind of thing isn't fixed it'll be interesting to see what happens. Once an organization gets to a certain size there is no way to prevent the necessity of relying on people you don't know - and since it's all in a game on the internet there isn't much to be done other than "trust".
Potentially you could see a lot fewer mega-powers in EVE because they won't want to grow beyond a point where their close friends / family / alt accounts can control everything. Or perhaps more burn out as people try to do it all themselves to guard against the spectre of a possible spy.
Sure it's an interesting situation, more interesting to see the fallout - but ultimately CCP is culpable for allowing such bad mechanics to exist - especially since it's happened to other corps before this.
Me thinks they just might change the way things work for the next expansion in regards to Alliance management.
It's Ironic how the goons have now become the Alliance that they had so despised with the take over.
This is probably a dumb quetion but I haven't been playing EVE that long so here goes.
I assume that the former BOB players are all currently engaged in attempting to escape their former holdings or forming a defense of them. If these guys have been in 0.0 for years... would they have up-to-date clones in safe Empire space? In other words... if they lose whatever clone resources they had in 0.0 space are they in danger of losing skillpoints when they die?
Delve has plenty of NPC stations which are not conquerable therefore cannot be taken over which contain clone vats. BoB has many many alt's in empire and 0.0 space. BoB will most likely ask for GBC (us) support for defense and will attempt to consolidate their assets, but they will fight, they have waaaaaay to much to loose by simply packing up and leaving, besides its gonna be f-ing nuts in Delve once everyone and their mother comes in to carve out a piece of the ex-bob territory pie.
Delve has plenty of NPC stations which are not conquerable therefore cannot be taken over which contain clone vats. BoB has many many alt's in empire and 0.0 space. BoB will most likely ask for GBC (us) support for defense and will attempt to consolidate their assets, but they will fight, they have waaaaaay to much to loose by simply packing up and leaving, besides its gonna be f-ing nuts in Delve once everyone and their mother comes in to carve out a piece of the ex-bob territory pie.
Thanks, I didn't realize there were NPC stations that far out of Empire space. Keep pushing my CORP to make the jump to 0.0 but "everyone isn't ready yet". Dangit I'm ready. And a free-for-all between the major players sounds like an epic time to jump into the real war!
tbqh it boils down to two words:
max
damage
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Bob has been around a long time every major alliance has taken a shot at them, goons being the only ones to last, its a bad ending to a long story but seeing what comes out of the void left will be interesting I'm guessing the bob members stills around will just re-unite under a new banner.