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POLL: IP-Based or Original Lore MMORPG's?
dhayes68
Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
Over time I've found that I prefer MMO's that create their own lore (EvE, WoW) much better than those based on an established IP's (Intellectual Property) like AoC or LoTRO.
What do you all think?
For me its just that MMO's that create their own lore feel more open and have more possibilities in creating something new. For example, devs for EvE can implement whatever they want, devs for LoTRO are obviously more restrained.
Just to clarify: I think LoRTO is a better made game than WoW but because of my preference I enjoyed WoW (when I played it) more.
Comments
I prefer original lore as devs often use third party ip's (or their own ip's even) as an excuse to make poor games and then sell them off ip alone.
Original. It gives the devs free reign when it comes to design.
The Official God FAQ
Using an established IP isn't the problem. Trying to build the game around what makes sense for the IP rather than making a good game is the problem. If you start with an established IP, you'll have to expand the lore somewhat to make a decent game out of it.
Original IP, definitely. I choose this mostly because I prefer seeing things I haven't seen before, rather than just seeing things I have seen before translated into an MMO. Also, usually MMOs based on IPs don't give you the same feeling or just aren't as good as the IP itself, leading to disappointment.
I think the problem though is if they don't expand they piss off people. If they expand they piss off the people who chose to play because of the IP. Its like a trap for the devs.
I think both are viable and I enjoy both. The problem, as alluded to by a few people, is the IP is limited and because of that the devs look at shortcuts and what not.
I think a game like Lord of the Rings Online could have been a whole lot more if they set it in the 4th age where things weren't exactly determined or fleshed out fully in the lore. Of course, instead of doing that Turbine tried to capitalize as much on the movies. I mean, even in the name difference, Middle Earth Online vs. Lord of the Rings Online, you see the game goes from opportunity and exploring to a rehash of the same story trying to capitalize on name. It felt like, to me, that by going with the LoTRO name and direction, they could cut back on overall content (thus cost of game production), knowing the game would sell on name alone, anyways.
splat
Yes my feeling towards LoTRO was either use the same engine but with new lore or keep it as it is but as a standalone. My problem there was I'm a huge fan of the IP so they could never get it right enough for me. I couldn't get into the 'feel' of the game because my desire to be in Middle Earth was hampered by the fact that the rest of you were all there with me and frankly a lot of you are pains in the butt.
Which I put iup with easily in a game like EvE but its a mood killer in LoTRO.
Plus there is always the inevtible clash between the experts in the lore and those who just want to play.
I have to say original IP. My favorite MMOs so far are SWG, WoW, and Guild Wars. Both WoW and Guild Wars were their own IP, and even though SWG was based off of Star Wars IP, the IP is so broad and deep that it didn't really constrain them too much(and where it did, SOE just ignored it anyway). But, the ultimate demise of SWG was because it wasn't deemed "Star Warsy" enough by (stupid) people. So in essense, the IP was the reason it was turned to crap.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Bingo.
WAR could have been much better if they didn't have to stick with the look of the races.
This created a huge imbalanced towards destruction.
The ideal would be what Blizzard did, an Original IP but worked out a bit in old non-MMO games.
WoW is an original IP? What? And this whole time I thought it was based off of the Warcraft Strategy games by the SAME COMPANY. I guess the name World of WARCRAFT is kind of misleading.
/sarcasm. -_-;
WoW is an original IP? What? And this whole time I thought it was based off of the Warcraft Strategy games by the SAME COMPANY. I guess the name World of WARCRAFT is kind of misleading.
/sarcasm. -_-;
Ok genius. Tell me, who created the Warcraft Lore? The company that made the MMO? Oh my, that would fall under the "original IP" catagory as they can change the lore however they like.
Sorry, didn't think I'd actually have to spell that out for anyone. I overestimate the general population's intelligence.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
WoW is an original IP? What? And this whole time I thought it was based off of the Warcraft Strategy games by the SAME COMPANY. I guess the name World of WARCRAFT is kind of misleading.
/sarcasm. -_-;
Ok genius. Tell me, who created the Warcraft Lore? The company that made the MMO? Oh my, that would fall under the "original IP" catagory as they can change the lore however they like.
Sorry, didn't think I'd actually have to spell that out for anyone. I overestimate the general population's intelligence.
Abrahmm's definition is what I meant by original Lore.
Both...
My two favorite MMOs are WoW and LotR:O, and each uses their respective IP to great effect. Both feel like worlds (even if they are fairly static), and both incorperate the quite copious amounts of lore very well into the game.
But I think (and this is just me rambling... >.>) that MMOs based upon an already established lore are preferable... This doesn't mean that original > non-original, or vis-versa, but that a game with already established lore/games/books behind will fare much better than something that doesn't have those resources for both players and developers.
To me it doesn't matter as long as the game is good.
Still, it is erroneous thinking that a game that sticks to the lore has real restraints.
Anyone who knows anything about design knows the dangers and pitfalls of not having some rules to help define the space.
Having predefined rules can actually help set creativitiy free.
If one is not careful, having no rules can not only stifle creativity (sort of like having option anxiety I suppose) but can lead down the road of "everything but the kitchen sink.
so, for instance, let's take a football game. Or even chess. There are predefined rules to these games. Things you can and cannot do. But knowing those rules you are then free to work within that universe and allow your creativity to make the game interesting.
part of an article talking about Stravinsky and his poetics of music:
Igor Stravinsky’s article Poetics of Music is another example of relativity greatly influencing a 20th century artist. Stravinsky produced a vastly different style of music by applying the principles of relativity to music. Relativity in music is not abandoning all rules and form, but rather imposing rules that may be different than what others in a different frame of reference may be used to.
In his article he explains that the more constraints one imposes on themselves, the more free they will become from the chains that shackle their spirit. He is telling us that one must have some sort of rules and guidelines that govern that individual’s creation of art. Earlier in the article Poetics of Music Stravinsky says, “My freedom will be so much the greater and more meaningful the more narrowly I limit my field of action and the more I surround myself with obstacles” (Stravinsky, 547).
Here he explains to us that one may only reach the furthest points of creativity by building upon a foundation and taking the art further than it has previously been. This kind of progress and structure cannot be attained by randomly throwing pieces together but rather it must be the product of a purposeful work carefully constructed together to enable the artist to fully express his intentions.
Art must be bound by rules, though those rules are not always the same rules that are accepted as common practice. To create art that is random and chaotic is to limit one’s creativity to mere chance. The rules that Stravinsky used were actually much stricter that the common musical rules of the day. However, in imposing on himself a more rigorous set of rules, relative to his own ideas, he was able to actually create more.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I don't care if a game is IP-based or not. All that matters to me is that the game meets my criteria for what I consider a good game. That being said, IP-based can attract a larger playerbase (which is important to me), so in general IP-based games tend to grab my attention easier than non-IP-based games.
Loreless.
I want to create the game - not the devs. The devs should just make the components to make the game easy to make (and break) lore to.
You can still create your own game within a lore based world. I don't believe that there are any games that have been made that don't have some sort of backstory.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Depends on the IP
Of course all games of any type have rules. I believe there is a difference between rules decided upon by a dev with a vision, who also has the freedom to change the rules, as opposed to rules that may have been set by the attorney of a dead author's estate.
Still, when I and perhaps others talk of 'limits' we're not necessarily speaking about rules, but also of the actual scope of the game, the realm of possibilities as it were. For example, (bear with me, this is a silly example) If the devs of WoW for example, decided mages should have laser guns, they can, if they felt like it, do that. The devs of LoTRO and AoC could not. I know that is a ridiculous example but therin lies the feeling of knowing anything is possible (even if you know it won't happen) and knowing only certain things are possible.
Doesn't really depend on if it's original or not. If the developers make a good game, the lore has nothing to do with it. The arguement that SWG failed because of it's IP is a flat out lie. SWG failed because SOE is a failed company.
I like how DAoC did thier lore though. It's half and half original and IP-based. You have the story of camelot in the central theme, but the lore of that IP was warped into making a fun game. Granted they didn't have anyone like Games Workshop over thier shoulder, so they were able to do this.
You can't create your own game in a lore-based world, only your own backstory that fits with the lore of the world.
Two of the greatest game franchises of all time have been made without a backstory:
The Sims and Civilization. You start with nothing, and build from the tools they give you. Civilization 4 has to be one of the best games ever, IMO. I just hope the standard MMO will be adapted one day without lore/IP. Loreless for the win!
I prefer games with original lore.
They are free to move in whichever direction they choose without the lore natzi's screaming.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
This is a pretty good poll, my answer was ip-based which is far in the minority but the thing about it is with an established ip I would already be aware of how I feel about the world,lore,characters etc.. I have only had a few experiences with original lore but they have yet to wow me as in the case of city of heroes, yes I was glad to play an actual mmo based o superheroes but could have cared less about the lore same with guild wars which off hand is the other mmo I can remember playing with original ip. Wow though Blizzard did create it is questionable as to wether it is original lore or not simply because in my time there all people did was whine and moan about how Blizz was messing up the lore as it was established in the warcraft games before wow.
In all I am much more interested in having encounters in places I've seen/read about in established worlds as opposed to taking a chance on an original ip that may wind up not interesting me in the least. Also someone down the way mentioned how people put out crappy games uaing established lore but I'd argue the same with games with original ip, right now mmo's are really in a sad state as people only have a tenious grasp on the technology they use to create games hence you have horrible games based off of original ip's like DnL.Autoassault and others that some will consider ok gamesothers won't such as Anarchy,Vanguard etc.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
That's the excuse Smed made to redisign and try to pull in wow numbers, in my opinion it was more star warsy before the cu/nge than after. What have they actually done to make it more "star warsy", from what I've seen not much.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....