As I said this is normal in the current situations.
All the governments "advise" the banks to acquire the ones with more troubles.
As I explained to you that happened in UK as well, and I am sure it happened in other countries as well.
You fail to understand my irony.....when i put the word "advise" in brakets it is obvious that I mean more than that...........
I also explained to you why the governments "advise" the banks to do so, so you are not telling me anything new.
All you are saying is a consequence of the crysis, not the reason, so I don't understand what you are trying to prove.
Also, I am really curious to know the reason why the US government would want to force the US entering the World Bank so badly, to justify your conspiracy theory?
There is nothing "NORMAL" about this crisis. It does not even compare to anything we have ever dealt with.
It is completely on a differnt scale. I have already talked about the reason for the crysis, and I do believe that these people actually think that it is in Americas best interest to all join in the world bank. I happen to disagree with that and would like to see the country go back to what made it strong in the first place, and that is not depending on other countries for anything, rather do for ourselves . Make what we use in the US in the US, which is the opposite of where they have driven us. They have put american businesses out of work by making us the shoppers of the world, not the producers when we have more untapped natural rescourses than just about anywhere. Noo .. Instead of doing what this country really needs they want to send us straight into the "new world order" everyone heard Bush bring it up .. nothing has changed just a different driver. You ask what is in it for them? Many have been convinced this is the only way we can ensure western control of the world.
As I said this is normal in the current situations.
All the governments "advise" the banks to acquire the ones with more troubles.
As I explained to you that happened in UK as well, and I am sure it happened in other countries as well.
There is nothing "NORMAL" about this crisis. It does not even compare to anything we have ever dealt with.
It is completely on a differnt scale. I have already talked about the reason for the crysis, and I do believe that these people actually think that it is in Americas best interest to all join in the world bank. I happen to disagree with that and would like to see the country go back to what made it strong in the first place, and that is not depending on other countries for anything, rather do for ourselves . Make what we use in the US in the US, which is the opposite of where they have driven us. They have put american businesses out of work by making us the shoppers of the world, not the producers when we have more untapped natural rescourses than just about anywhere. Noo .. Instead of doing what this country really needs they want to send us straight into the "new world order" everyone heard Bush bring it up .. nothing has changed just a different driver. You ask what is in it for them? Many have been convinced this is the only way we can ensure western control of the world.
Read the quote in yellow.
I said it was NORMAL in the current situation.
I didn't said it was a NORMAL situation.
I think it is clear the 2 statements have completely different meanings.
You should read statements as intended, instead of twisting the word for your own convenience.
But I give you the benefit of the doubt, even if I think that your wacky theory is just that, link some information about the "western control of the world" through the world bank.
I am open minded and I like debates, based on facts though..............
There is nothing "NORMAL" about this crisis. It does not even compare to anything we have ever dealt with. It is completely on a differnt scale. I have already talked about the reason for the crysis, and I do believe that these people actually think that it is in Americas best interest to all join in the world bank. I happen to disagree with that and would like to see the country go back to what made it strong in the first place, and that is not depending on other countries for anything, rather do for ourselves . Make what we use in the US in the US, which is the opposite of where they have driven us. They have put american businesses out of work by making us the shoppers of the world, not the producers when we have more untapped natural rescourses than just about anywhere. Noo .. Instead of doing what this country really needs they want to send us straight into the "new world order" everyone heard Bush bring it up .. nothing has changed just a different driver. You ask what is in it for them? Many have been convinced this is the only way we can ensure western control of the world.
Read the quote in yellow.
I said it was NORMAL in the current situation.
I didn't said it was a NORMAL situation.
I think it is clear the 2 statements have completely different meanings.
You should read statements as intended, instead of twisting the word for your own convenience.
But I give you the benefit of the doubt, even if I think that your wacky theory is just that, link some information about the "western control of the world" through the world bank.
I am open minded and I like debates, based on facts though..............
*sighs* I swear just last year I had to gather up all this information in another post... you are soo going to make me work! lol Gathering information from hundreds of sources as you can imagine is very time consuming , it is not like I just woke up today and said oh my they are trying to $%%#!! us over! lol this has been going on for a very long time, which I am sure you are aware of, and you just want to make me work! Here we go again ... lol
There is nothing "NORMAL" about this crisis. It does not even compare to anything we have ever dealt with. It is completely on a differnt scale. I have already talked about the reason for the crysis, and I do believe that these people actually think that it is in Americas best interest to all join in the world bank. I happen to disagree with that and would like to see the country go back to what made it strong in the first place, and that is not depending on other countries for anything, rather do for ourselves . Make what we use in the US in the US, which is the opposite of where they have driven us. They have put american businesses out of work by making us the shoppers of the world, not the producers when we have more untapped natural rescourses than just about anywhere. Noo .. Instead of doing what this country really needs they want to send us straight into the "new world order" everyone heard Bush bring it up .. nothing has changed just a different driver. You ask what is in it for them? Many have been convinced this is the only way we can ensure western control of the world.
Read the quote in yellow.
I said it was NORMAL in the current situation.
I didn't said it was a NORMAL situation.
I think it is clear the 2 statements have completely different meanings.
You should read statements as intended, instead of twisting the word for your own convenience.
But I give you the benefit of the doubt, even if I think that your wacky theory is just that, link some information about the "western control of the world" through the world bank.
I am open minded and I like debates, based on facts though..............
*sighs* I swear just last year I had to gather up all this information in another post... you are soo going to make me work! lol Gathering information from hundreds of sources as you can imagine is very time consuming , it is not like I just woke up today and said oh my they are trying to $%%#!! us over! lol this has been going on for a very long time, which I am sure you are aware of, and you just want to make me work! Here we go again ... lol
The only issue I have with your take is that it's a conspiracy. What we are dealing with are not conspiracies -- but two competing movements. One side, as can be evidenced by many people on these forums, honestly believes that freedom has has its chance and has failed, and that socialism is the way to go.
The other, minority position is that we need more freedom, not less.
No need for a conspiracy when people actually WANT tyranny. No need to "create" emergencies when socialism is destructive enough for that, which leads to cries from the people for more socialism, which of course makes things worse, which leads to more cries for socialism, which makes things worse, which leads to....you get the idea.
You THINK it is obvious, I think it is obvious, so we wonder if there is INTENTION behind it. I tend to doubt that, unless the people on this forum who believe in socialism are part of the conspiracy.
There is nothing "NORMAL" about this crisis. It does not even compare to anything we have ever dealt with. It is completely on a differnt scale. I have already talked about the reason for the crysis, and I do believe that these people actually think that it is in Americas best interest to all join in the world bank. I happen to disagree with that and would like to see the country go back to what made it strong in the first place, and that is not depending on other countries for anything, rather do for ourselves . Make what we use in the US in the US, which is the opposite of where they have driven us. They have put american businesses out of work by making us the shoppers of the world, not the producers when we have more untapped natural rescourses than just about anywhere. Noo .. Instead of doing what this country really needs they want to send us straight into the "new world order" everyone heard Bush bring it up .. nothing has changed just a different driver. You ask what is in it for them? Many have been convinced this is the only way we can ensure western control of the world.
Read the quote in yellow.
I said it was NORMAL in the current situation.
I didn't said it was a NORMAL situation.
I think it is clear the 2 statements have completely different meanings.
You should read statements as intended, instead of twisting the word for your own convenience.
But I give you the benefit of the doubt, even if I think that your wacky theory is just that, link some information about the "western control of the world" through the world bank.
I am open minded and I like debates, based on facts though..............
*sighs* I swear just last year I had to gather up all this information in another post... you are soo going to make me work! lol Gathering information from hundreds of sources as you can imagine is very time consuming , it is not like I just woke up today and said oh my they are trying to $%%#!! us over! lol this has been going on for a very long time, which I am sure you are aware of, and you just want to make me work! Here we go again ... lol
The only issue I have with your take is that it's a conspiracy. What we are dealing with are not conspiracies -- but two competing movements. One side, as can be evidenced by many people on these forums, honestly believes that freedom has has its chance and has failed, and that socialism is the way to go.
The other, minority position is that we need more freedom, not less.
No need for a conspiracy when people actually WANT tyranny. No need to "create" emergencies when socialism is destructive enough for that, which leads to cries from the people for more socialism, which of course makes things worse, which leads to more cries for socialism, which makes things worse, which leads to....you get the idea.
You THINK it is obvious, I think it is obvious, so we wonder if there is INTENTION behind it. I tend to doubt that, unless the people on this forum who believe in socialism are part of the conspiracy.
Well obviously there is intention behind it, and you are correct that socialism is at the core, Look at what the world bank is. All of this is in the guise of good and it honestly is sad how gullable our society really is.
Before correcting others is better you get your facts straight.
Secondly HBOS was in exactly the same position as Merryl Lynch, it was about to collapse and the government got in talks with other banks to do something about.
Whatever governements and banks decide, they are not gonna tell you or me, those are things that stay behind closed doors.
We don't really know if Lloyds wanted to genuinely buy HBOS (which lets not forget was about to collapse), or the government pushed the deal promising Lloyds they will get a bail out if they merged with HBOS (which they promptly got).
We just don't know, what we know is that Brown had lots of talks with Lloyds directors.
So unless you are Brown or the CEO of Lloyds, I am fairly sure you don't know what has been said.
What is clear though, is that HBOS was bleeding money copiously, and I find it hard that in such period of crysis, Lloyds wanted to get even more debts on board buying HBOS.
More likely Brown sit with them and suggested to buy the collapsing bank in exchnge of a promise to bail Lloyds if needed.
Thirdly HSBC, together with Barclays, RBS and Lloyds (and HBOS before the merge) are all primarly High Street banks (unlike Northern Rock and Bradford & Bingley for example).
But not all of them have the same distribution of investments of course (and in this you are right), they are big financial institutions therefore they have interests in every sector of the financial market.
Apart for the building societies and smaller banks, 2 high street banks in particular had most of their assets invested in dodgy deals.
RBS and HBOS (Lloyds too although on a smaller scale of those 2) had lots of assests invested in banks that were involved in the US sub-prime mortgage market or in UK building societies (they were lending them money).
Those 2 were the most hit because all the assets they invested in that market were written off, resulting in huge losses.
RBS is quite big so it was worth a bail out, HBOS wasn't big enough to apply for the bail out, hence the theory that Brown suggested Lloyds to buy the smaller bank, to avoid a collapse.
Neither Brown, the CEO, nor the banks directors made the decision, the bank's owners did.
All the major banks here didn't want government bailouts. Bailouts mean stock price collapse, dividend suspensions and bonuses suspensions.
Lloyds took the bailout as it viewed the long term acquisition of a bank it had formerly not been allowed to merge with as an acceptable loss. When they buy out the government they are going to be the largest bank on the high street. Larger than any bank here has previously been allowed to grow.
There is nothing "NORMAL" about this crisis. It does not even compare to anything we have ever dealt with. It is completely on a differnt scale. I have already talked about the reason for the crysis, and I do believe that these people actually think that it is in Americas best interest to all join in the world bank. I happen to disagree with that and would like to see the country go back to what made it strong in the first place, and that is not depending on other countries for anything, rather do for ourselves . Make what we use in the US in the US, which is the opposite of where they have driven us. They have put american businesses out of work by making us the shoppers of the world, not the producers when we have more untapped natural rescourses than just about anywhere. Noo .. Instead of doing what this country really needs they want to send us straight into the "new world order" everyone heard Bush bring it up .. nothing has changed just a different driver. You ask what is in it for them? Many have been convinced this is the only way we can ensure western control of the world.
Read the quote in yellow.
I said it was NORMAL in the current situation.
I didn't said it was a NORMAL situation.
I think it is clear the 2 statements have completely different meanings.
You should read statements as intended, instead of twisting the word for your own convenience.
But I give you the benefit of the doubt, even if I think that your wacky theory is just that, link some information about the "western control of the world" through the world bank.
I am open minded and I like debates, based on facts though..............
*sighs* I swear just last year I had to gather up all this information in another post... you are soo going to make me work! lol Gathering information from hundreds of sources as you can imagine is very time consuming , it is not like I just woke up today and said oh my they are trying to $%%#!! us over! lol this has been going on for a very long time, which I am sure you are aware of, and you just want to make me work! Here we go again ... lol
The only issue I have with your take is that it's a conspiracy. What we are dealing with are not conspiracies -- but two competing movements. One side, as can be evidenced by many people on these forums, honestly believes that freedom has has its chance and has failed, and that socialism is the way to go.
The other, minority position is that we need more freedom, not less.
No need for a conspiracy when people actually WANT tyranny. No need to "create" emergencies when socialism is destructive enough for that, which leads to cries from the people for more socialism, which of course makes things worse, which leads to more cries for socialism, which makes things worse, which leads to....you get the idea.
You THINK it is obvious, I think it is obvious, so we wonder if there is INTENTION behind it. I tend to doubt that, unless the people on this forum who believe in socialism are part of the conspiracy.
Well obviously there is intention behind it, and you are correct that socialism is at the core, Look at what the world bank is. All of this is in the guise of good and it honestly is sad how gullable our society really is.
But these are people who honestly believe freedom is bad, and socialism is good. In fact they redefine "freedom" so they can pretend they believe in freedom too.
We read their posts every day on these boards. These are NOT people who know better -- these are people who honestly believe in what they believe. To us, it seems insane, and in a certain sense it is -- but it's not people willingly setting out to secretly do evil. It is people willingly setting out to do what they think is right and good -- take away our freedom.
If I didn't see so many regular people posting and believing in the nonsense of socialism on this site and others, i'd be inclined to agree with you. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We read their posts daily.
There is nothing "NORMAL" about this crisis. It does not even compare to anything we have ever dealt with. It is completely on a differnt scale. I have already talked about the reason for the crysis, and I do believe that these people actually think that it is in Americas best interest to all join in the world bank. I happen to disagree with that and would like to see the country go back to what made it strong in the first place, and that is not depending on other countries for anything, rather do for ourselves . Make what we use in the US in the US, which is the opposite of where they have driven us. They have put american businesses out of work by making us the shoppers of the world, not the producers when we have more untapped natural rescourses than just about anywhere. Noo .. Instead of doing what this country really needs they want to send us straight into the "new world order" everyone heard Bush bring it up .. nothing has changed just a different driver. You ask what is in it for them? Many have been convinced this is the only way we can ensure western control of the world.
Read the quote in yellow.
I said it was NORMAL in the current situation.
I didn't said it was a NORMAL situation.
I think it is clear the 2 statements have completely different meanings.
You should read statements as intended, instead of twisting the word for your own convenience.
But I give you the benefit of the doubt, even if I think that your wacky theory is just that, link some information about the "western control of the world" through the world bank.
I am open minded and I like debates, based on facts though..............
*sighs* I swear just last year I had to gather up all this information in another post... you are soo going to make me work! lol Gathering information from hundreds of sources as you can imagine is very time consuming , it is not like I just woke up today and said oh my they are trying to $%%#!! us over! lol this has been going on for a very long time, which I am sure you are aware of, and you just want to make me work! Here we go again ... lol
The only issue I have with your take is that it's a conspiracy. What we are dealing with are not conspiracies -- but two competing movements. One side, as can be evidenced by many people on these forums, honestly believes that freedom has has its chance and has failed, and that socialism is the way to go.
The other, minority position is that we need more freedom, not less.
No need for a conspiracy when people actually WANT tyranny. No need to "create" emergencies when socialism is destructive enough for that, which leads to cries from the people for more socialism, which of course makes things worse, which leads to more cries for socialism, which makes things worse, which leads to....you get the idea.
You THINK it is obvious, I think it is obvious, so we wonder if there is INTENTION behind it. I tend to doubt that, unless the people on this forum who believe in socialism are part of the conspiracy.
Well obviously there is intention behind it, and you are correct that socialism is at the core, Look at what the world bank is. All of this is in the guise of good and it honestly is sad how gullable our society really is.
But these are people who honestly believe freedom is bad, and socialism is good. In fact they redefine "freedom" so they can pretend they believe in freedom too.
We read their posts every day on these boards. These are NOT people who know better -- these are people who honestly believe in what they believe. To us, it seems insane, and in a certain sense it is -- but it's not people willingly setting out to secretly do evil. It is people willingly setting out to do what they think is right and good -- take away our freedom.
If I didn't see so many regular people posting and believing in the nonsense of socialism on this site and others, i'd be inclined to agree with you. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We read their posts daily.
OKay let me get this straight, you believe that they are doing this out of ignoarnce of what they are doing, and I believe that they know exactly what they are doing and are intentionally running us into hell on earth. That is the only differnce here? I guess I just cannot believe that they could be that stupid.. Yes I think the sheep are just doing what they have been socially groomed for, but I do not think that the sheppard has good intentions.
DEVIL!!!! glad to see ya back and posting!!! Credit default swap. <<< over 55 TRILLION dollars. ALL from housing debt that should never have been loaned out. all ALL democrat planned and forced on banks.
Thanks good to see you too! I have just been so busy I haven't had time to kick back and shoot the shit lol.
There is nothing "NORMAL" about this crisis. It does not even compare to anything we have ever dealt with. It is completely on a differnt scale. I have already talked about the reason for the crysis, and I do believe that these people actually think that it is in Americas best interest to all join in the world bank. I happen to disagree with that and would like to see the country go back to what made it strong in the first place, and that is not depending on other countries for anything, rather do for ourselves . Make what we use in the US in the US, which is the opposite of where they have driven us. They have put american businesses out of work by making us the shoppers of the world, not the producers when we have more untapped natural rescourses than just about anywhere. Noo .. Instead of doing what this country really needs they want to send us straight into the "new world order" everyone heard Bush bring it up .. nothing has changed just a different driver. You ask what is in it for them? Many have been convinced this is the only way we can ensure western control of the world.
Read the quote in yellow.
I said it was NORMAL in the current situation.
I didn't said it was a NORMAL situation.
I think it is clear the 2 statements have completely different meanings.
You should read statements as intended, instead of twisting the word for your own convenience.
But I give you the benefit of the doubt, even if I think that your wacky theory is just that, link some information about the "western control of the world" through the world bank.
I am open minded and I like debates, based on facts though..............
*sighs* I swear just last year I had to gather up all this information in another post... you are soo going to make me work! lol Gathering information from hundreds of sources as you can imagine is very time consuming , it is not like I just woke up today and said oh my they are trying to $%%#!! us over! lol this has been going on for a very long time, which I am sure you are aware of, and you just want to make me work! Here we go again ... lol
The only issue I have with your take is that it's a conspiracy. What we are dealing with are not conspiracies -- but two competing movements. One side, as can be evidenced by many people on these forums, honestly believes that freedom has has its chance and has failed, and that socialism is the way to go.
The other, minority position is that we need more freedom, not less.
No need for a conspiracy when people actually WANT tyranny. No need to "create" emergencies when socialism is destructive enough for that, which leads to cries from the people for more socialism, which of course makes things worse, which leads to more cries for socialism, which makes things worse, which leads to....you get the idea.
You THINK it is obvious, I think it is obvious, so we wonder if there is INTENTION behind it. I tend to doubt that, unless the people on this forum who believe in socialism are part of the conspiracy.
Well obviously there is intention behind it, and you are correct that socialism is at the core, Look at what the world bank is. All of this is in the guise of good and it honestly is sad how gullable our society really is.
But these are people who honestly believe freedom is bad, and socialism is good. In fact they redefine "freedom" so they can pretend they believe in freedom too.
We read their posts every day on these boards. These are NOT people who know better -- these are people who honestly believe in what they believe. To us, it seems insane, and in a certain sense it is -- but it's not people willingly setting out to secretly do evil. It is people willingly setting out to do what they think is right and good -- take away our freedom.
If I didn't see so many regular people posting and believing in the nonsense of socialism on this site and others, i'd be inclined to agree with you. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We read their posts daily.
OKay let me get this straight, you believe that they are doing this out of ignoarnce of what they are doing, and I believe that they know exactly what they are doing and are intentionally running us into hell on earth. That is the only differnce here? I guess I just cannot believe that they could be that stupid.. Yes I think the sheep are just doing what they have been socially groomed for, but I do not think that the sheppard has good intentions.
I believe they are as ignorant as the people we read daily on this and other websites. The people in power have been educated under the same bad theories, the same inept government education systems as the people who post here.
The truth is there is no shepherd. They are all sheep running around in circles.
To quote Ayn Rand: "a leash is a rope with a noose at both ends."
They think they are right, they think it will work -- all the theories they believe says so. Their socialist theories are their religion and it is hard to correct a lifetime of error.
"So you see, my dear Coningsby, that the world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes."55--Disraeli, Prime Minister of England during Queen Victoria's reign.
> NEW YORK (Reuters) - Federal officials pushed Bank of America Corp hard to complete its acquisition of Merrill Lynch even as credit losses mounted at the troubled investment bank, the Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday, without citing any named sources.
>
> Bank of America arguably saved Merrill from collapse in September when it quickly struck a merger agreement the same weekend Lehman Brothers went bankrupt.
>
> By December, as Merrill's losses were soaring, BofA Chief Executive Ken Lewis told U.S. Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke he was having second thoughts, the paper said, according to people close to Lewis.
>
> But Paulson and Bernanke on December 17 "forcefully urged Mr. Lewis not to walk away," the paper reported. They warned Lewis that if the deal collapsed, Merrill could be doomed and that their confidence in Bank of America would be "undercut."
>
> Days later, Bernanke told Lewis Bank of America had no grounds to walk away, the Journal reported, citing people who heard the remarks. Another Federal Reserve official warned that if Lewis did walk away and later needed more government money, regulators might consider ousting executives and directors, people close to the bank say.
>
> During the four weeks that followed, federal officials and Bank of America worked out a deal to preserve the Merrill deal. The government agreed to provide $20 billion in additional capital for the bank and to insure against losses on $118 billion in troubled assets.
>
> Officials from the bank and from the government could not be reached immediately for comment on events described by the Journal report.
>
> Bank of America previously received $25 billion as one of nine U.S. banks that kicked off the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP, last fall.
>
> Bank of America's Lewis has come under fire in recent weeks after his bank announced much larger than expected losses from Merrill and revealed it was receiving a second capital injection.
>
> The bank's stock price has been hammered as shareholders, who were asked to approve the merger in December, complain they should have been warned about Merrill's woes earlier.
>
Though this story is still omitting alot of details it is more accurate than the others.
They put it to a vote. (I voted "no"). Neither Brown, the CEO, nor the banks directors made the decision, the bank's owners did.
If you expect that small shareholders like you count on big decisions, then you should not invest in corporations.
And I guess you are a small shareholder since you cannot even remember the bank you merged with..........
The decisions are taken by the board of directors together with the major stakeholders (those usually elect the CEO and have members on the board, not the minor shareholders which have maximun 1 rapresentative for all of them).
So, Brown talks with the Lloyds board, and they come up with a sort of deal (which I repeat neither me or you will ever get to know the details).
Then the board talk with the major shareholders, regarding their intention (this is the part where people that counts, meet each other in private meetings to discuss the deals, possibly in front of the Spearmint Rhino lap dancers).
If the major shareholders are already opposed, the proposal won't even reach the voting stage (since the deal is still unofficial).
If the major shareholders agree on principles, the board formally announce the deal to the public and submit the proposal to every shareholders for a vote.
But because the major shareholders already agreed informally, the minor shareholders vote won't make too much of a difference.
So in the end in the financial market, politics and business walk hand in hand, in particular in this difficult situations.
And unlikely whatever you might think, decisions are taken by the board together with the major shareholders (except when the oucome is too close in which case the minor shareholders make the difference, but it is rare).
So with Gordon Brown promising the Lloyds board a bail out if they bought HBOS, Llloyds will become one of the biggest bank in Europe when the crysis ends (because Lloyds will buy back the shares from the government)
Without that guarantee, I doubt Lloyds would have bought a shitload of debts in the shape of HBOS in this particular time (maybe before the crysis that was the case, but not now).
Well this is the kind of "advice" I mean every time I mention it (I give you someting, you give me something).
I am trying to explain how things really work, not how they are supposed to work, I hope people understand this.
They put it to a vote. (I voted "no"). Neither Brown, the CEO, nor the banks directors made the decision, the bank's owners did.
If you expect that small shareholders like you count on big decisions, then you should not invest in corporations.
And I guess you are a small shareholder since you cannot even remember the bank you merged with..........
The decisions are taken by the board of directors together with the major stakeholders (those usually elect the CEO and have members on the board, not the minor shareholders which have maximun 1 rapresentative for all of them).
So, Brown talks with the Lloyds board, and they come up with a sort of deal (which I repeat neither me or you will ever get to know the details).
Then the board talk with the major shareholders, regarding their intention (this is the part where people that counts, meet each other in private meetings to discuss the deals, possibly in front of the Spearmint Rhino lap dancers).
If the major shareholders are already opposed, the proposal won't even reach the voting stage (since the deal is still unofficial).
If the major shareholders agree on principles, the board formally announce the deal to the public and submit the proposal to every shareholders for a vote.
But because the major shareholders already agreed informally, the minor shareholders vote won't make too much of a difference.
So in the end in the financial market, politics and business walk hand in hand, in particular in this difficult situations.
And unlikely whatever you might think, decisions are taken by the board together with the major shareholders (except when the oucome is too close in which case the minor shareholders make the difference, but it is rare).
So with Gordon Brown promising the Lloyds board a bail out if they bought HBOS, Llloyds will become one of the biggest bank in Europe when the crysis ends (because Lloyds will buy back the shares from the government)
Without that guarantee, I doubt Lloyds would have bought a shitload of debts in the shape of HBOS in this particular time (maybe before the crysis that was the case, but not now).
Well this is the kind of "advice" I mean every time I mention it (I give you someting, you give me something).
I am trying to explain how things really work, not how they are supposed to work, I hope people understand this.
I'm a small shareholder yes.
And sorry, one bankrupt Bank of Scotland sounds a lot like another bankrupt Bank of Scotland to me. My mistake. H,R? whats the difference? neither of them are paying me anything and I'm not in a profitable position to sell.
And no my vote counted for very little, it was the major shareholders that held the decisive power. My point however remains. The desicions were not made by government nor the Board of directors. They were made by the banks owners.
I do know what the directors said to the shareholders. I was one of them.
Was it a straight forward vote, predecided in a back room? It seemed pretty public to me.
Dissected daily in the newspapers, daily in parliament. Letters to the stock holder. Permanent dissection on 24 hour TV. There aren't many take overs as publicly accountable and high profile as this one was.
Shareholders were expected to veto it by many people. Lloyds shares (at the time) paid an exceptionally high dividend. Investors bought them for their secure dividend return not for risky capital gain. A five year government ban on dividends in return for a broken bank merger with bailout was not something Lloyds shareholders were keen to swallow.
It bounced back and forward for a long time before being finalised. Lloyds backed out of the negotiations twice I think before finally accepting.
Lloyds is set to buyout the government stake this year (£4 billion). In the meantime dividends are being paid in the form of stock.
"So you see, my dear Coningsby, that the world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes."55--Disraeli, Prime Minister of England during Queen Victoria's reign.
Yup read that and thousands of pages on conspiracies for over twenty years. Not convinced, certainly not by anything Roosevelt says. Disraeli at least I have some respect for, but still -- a government dude is not to be trusted when it comes to his perceptions on power. Everyone in politics believes in conspiracy -- because they themselves conspire regularly. They realize how little control THEY have, no matter what they do -- so they imagine there are secret chiefs above them.
These people haven't a clue as to who and what "runs" the world -- it never has been government. That being said, they are all mystics of one manner or another, so they cling to beliefs and fetishes. They believe the world is a thing that can be controlled.
That is nonsense and has always been the case. Those sad, sick people who enter politics for power lust however, MUST have this be true if life is to have any meaning.
They still feel a sense of their own impotence though, which leads to belief in conspiracy.
Just sad little men who want to rule a world that can't be ruled.
Still no evidence of a grand conspiracy. Just evidence who would rather be evil than stupid themselves, and assume everyone else is. Sadly, they are both.
Plenty of evidence for nasty little conspiracies which go on all the time.
Also, quotes are meaningless without context. Do you know the exact context of your quotes. If not, there's no way they can "prove" anything. They aren't even evidence of anything without an ecact context.
Yup read that and thousands of pages on conspiracies for over twenty years. Not convinced, certainly not by anything Roosevelt says. Disraeli at least I have some respect for, but still -- a government dude is not to be trusted when it comes to his perceptions on power. Everyone in politics believes in conspiracy -- because they themselves conspire regularly. They realize how little control THEY have, no matter what they do -- so they imagine there are secret chiefs above them. These people haven't a clue as to who and what "runs" the world -- it never has been government. That being said, they are all mystics of one manner or another, so they cling to beliefs and fetishes. They believe the world is a thing that can be controlled. That is nonsense and has always been the case. Those sad, sick people who enter politics for power lust however, MUST have this be true if life is to have any meaning. They still feel a sense of their own impotence though, which leads to belief in conspiracy. Just sad little men who want to rule a world that can't be ruled. Still no evidence of a grand conspiracy. Just evidence who would rather be evil than stupid themselves, and assume everyone else is. Sadly, they are both. Plenty of evidence for nasty little conspiracies which go on all the time.
Even if one can't believe in an "Illuminati" scenario the coporation ruling "Shadowrun" scenario is staring to get a bit more nervous as one can think about it.
I will say follow your TV commercial which points out the 2.5 million U.S. job loss while moving in 1.5 million foreign workers in the same year.
Watch your Lou Dobbs which showed Bill Gates at Congress punching in for those Visas while both parties just pratically look like they want to kiss him outright. No debate. Just, "Thank you for the products you provide. Thanks for improving my life." No concerns about hiring Americans first but only foreigners are needed 100% of the time without even so much looking towards an American.
Apply what you're watching and something sinister has to be going on.
Yup read that and thousands of pages on conspiracies for over twenty years. Not convinced, certainly not by anything Roosevelt says. Disraeli at least I have some respect for, but still -- a government dude is not to be trusted when it comes to his perceptions on power. Everyone in politics believes in conspiracy -- because they themselves conspire regularly. They realize how little control THEY have, no matter what they do -- so they imagine there are secret chiefs above them. These people haven't a clue as to who and what "runs" the world -- it never has been government. That being said, they are all mystics of one manner or another, so they cling to beliefs and fetishes. They believe the world is a thing that can be controlled. That is nonsense and has always been the case. Those sad, sick people who enter politics for power lust however, MUST have this be true if life is to have any meaning. They still feel a sense of their own impotence though, which leads to belief in conspiracy. Just sad little men who want to rule a world that can't be ruled. Still no evidence of a grand conspiracy. Just evidence who would rather be evil than stupid themselves, and assume everyone else is. Sadly, they are both. Plenty of evidence for nasty little conspiracies which go on all the time.
Even if one can't believe in an "Illuminati" scenario the coporation ruling "Shadowrun" scenario is staring to get a bit more nervous as one can think about it.
I will say follow your TV commercial which points out the 2.5 million U.S. job loss while moving in 1.5 million foreign workers in the same year.
Watch your Lou Dobbs which showed Bill Gates at Congress punching in for those Visas while both parties just pratically look like they want to kiss him outright. No debate. Just, "Thank you for the products you provide. Thanks for improving my life." No concerns about hiring Americans first but only foreigners are needed 100% of the time without even so much looking towards an American.
Apply watch you're watching and something sinister has to be going on.
I have been watching socialism destroy the world my whole life. Plenty of sinister out there -- but it's happening in the open. People honestly believe in something evil. They think this evil is good.
That's not a conspiracy. Just evil is as evil does. Just as stupid is as stupid does.
Again, people on this site, people on every forum I post and read believe in this moral cannibalism that is destroying the world. No conspiracy when we are all in on it.
I have been watching socialism destroy the world my whole life. ...
Can you point some examples?
Russia, China, Germany, Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq, Turkey, Israel, France, England, Japan, and almost every country on earth. You name it, the cult of cannibalism which is socialism is rotting them all from the inside.
Then, the United States, the freest, greatest capitalist nation in history, embraces socialism and drags the rest of the world with it. Pretty easy to see and anyone would know this was the result of it, but as I was telling devlicious, most people, like the people she thinks are in charge of a conspiracy, and you, I suppose, don't even understand this.
Thanks for helping me prove its not a conspiracy.
See Devilicious? They do not think it is evil. Why should the "people in power" be any different?
I have been watching socialism destroy the world my whole life. ...
Can you point some examples?
Russia, China, Germany, Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq, Turkey, Israel, France, England, Japan, and almost every country on earth. You name it, the cult of cannibalism which is socialism is rotting them all from the inside.
Then, the United States, the freest, greatest capitalist nation in history, embraces socialism and drags the rest of the world with it. Pretty easy to see and anyone would know this was the result of it, but as I was telling devlicious, most people, like the people she thinks are in charge of a conspiracy, and you, I suppose, don't even understand this.
Thanks for helping me prove its not a conspiracy.
See Devilicious? They do not think it is evil. Why should the "people in power" be any different?
Don't assume that I'm unable or unwilling to understand. If you're sufficiently versed in an area, you should be able to explain it to virtually anybody.
I'll leave the rest of the countries out of this, and just ask about the ol' USA. What are you referring to when you say "embraces socialism and drags the rest of the world with it."?
I have been watching socialism destroy the world my whole life. ...
Can you point some examples?
Russia, China, Germany, Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq, Turkey, Israel, France, England, Japan, and almost every country on earth. You name it, the cult of cannibalism which is socialism is rotting them all from the inside.
Then, the United States, the freest, greatest capitalist nation in history, embraces socialism and drags the rest of the world with it. Pretty easy to see and anyone would know this was the result of it, but as I was telling devlicious, most people, like the people she thinks are in charge of a conspiracy, and you, I suppose, don't even understand this.
Thanks for helping me prove its not a conspiracy.
See Devilicious? They do not think it is evil. Why should the "people in power" be any different?
Don't assume that I'm unable or unwilling to understand. If you're sufficiently versed in an area, you should be able to explain it to virtually anybody.
I'll leave the rest of the countries out of this, and just ask about the ol' USA. What are you referring to when you say "embraces socialism and drags the rest of the world with it."?
I am assuming nothing. I can explain anything to anyone. take some time and read my hundreds of posts and see that. however, what you are bringing up has nothing to do with the discussion at hand (except to help me prove my point).
back to the context you keep wanting to drop, I feel you should already know all of this, and the fact that you don't proves that good people can believe in or accept evil ideas. It proves my point to Devilicious which you are trying tp hijack, yet at the same time making my point to her for me.
I do not want to hijack this thread into a debate about why socialism is evil. If you don't know this, great, feel free to your views. I have wasted far too many hours arguing about THAT subject on these forums (which also proves my point). Read my old posts if you want that. Read the hundreds of essays and books on the subject.
However, even though it was an attempt at a sidebar hijack, I am glad you came along to show Devilicious what I am talking about. You see, Devilicious, we have here a perfect example of an obviously bright guy who does not see how evil socialism is. He doesn't see it as slavery, unless of course he is just being a troll and just wants to start an internet fight.
In fact, there are many people on these forums who honestly believe in the ideologies that will produce the "hell on earth" that you pin on a conspiracy. See? None needed.
They believe in that which is destroying us. They are not a secret society of power brokers, just ordinary, decent people who believe in bad stuff. Why the need to invent this vast conspiracy to be doing things that the very ideas held by regular people on this forum is all that is required for what is transpiring?
I have been watching socialism destroy the world my whole life. ...
Can you point some examples?
Russia, China, Germany, Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq, Turkey, Israel, France, England, Japan, and almost every country on earth. You name it, the cult of cannibalism which is socialism is rotting them all from the inside.
Then, the United States, the freest, greatest capitalist nation in history, embraces socialism and drags the rest of the world with it. Pretty easy to see and anyone would know this was the result of it, but as I was telling devlicious, most people, like the people she thinks are in charge of a conspiracy, and you, I suppose, don't even understand this.
Thanks for helping me prove its not a conspiracy.
See Devilicious? They do not think it is evil. Why should the "people in power" be any different?
Don't assume that I'm unable or unwilling to understand. If you're sufficiently versed in an area, you should be able to explain it to virtually anybody.
I'll leave the rest of the countries out of this, and just ask about the ol' USA. What are you referring to when you say "embraces socialism and drags the rest of the world with it."?
I am assuming nothing. I can explain anything to anyone. take some time and read my hundreds of posts and see that. however, what you are bringing up has nothing to do with the discussion at hand (except to help me prove my point).
back to the context you keep wanting to drop, I feel you should already know all of this, and the fact that you don't proves that good people can believe in or accept evil ideas. It proves my point to Devilicious which you are trying tp hijack, yet at the same time making my point to her for me.
I do not want to hijack this thread into a debate about why socialism is evil. If you don't know this, great, feel free to your views. I have wasted far too many hours arguing about THAT subject on these forums (which also proves my point). Read my old posts if you want that. Read the hundreds of essays and books on the subject.
However, even though it was an attempt at a sidebar hijack, I am glad you came along to show Devilicious what I am talking about. You see, Devilicious, we have here a perfect example of an obviously bright guy who does not see how evil socialism is. He doesn't see it as slavery, unless of course he is just being a troll and just wants to start an internet fight.
...
Ahh but you are making assumptions. You're assuming that either I'm ignorant about socialism, or that I'm trolling your thread. I just asked some questions about your statements, no pretext, no trolling.
I just wanted some more depth on those particular items that I responded to.
Comments
How is this normal:
www.youtube.com/watch
There is nothing "NORMAL" about this crisis. It does not even compare to anything we have ever dealt with.
It is completely on a differnt scale. I have already talked about the reason for the crysis, and I do believe that these people actually think that it is in Americas best interest to all join in the world bank. I happen to disagree with that and would like to see the country go back to what made it strong in the first place, and that is not depending on other countries for anything, rather do for ourselves . Make what we use in the US in the US, which is the opposite of where they have driven us. They have put american businesses out of work by making us the shoppers of the world, not the producers when we have more untapped natural rescourses than just about anywhere. Noo .. Instead of doing what this country really needs they want to send us straight into the "new world order" everyone heard Bush bring it up .. nothing has changed just a different driver. You ask what is in it for them? Many have been convinced this is the only way we can ensure western control of the world.
There is nothing "NORMAL" about this crisis. It does not even compare to anything we have ever dealt with.
It is completely on a differnt scale. I have already talked about the reason for the crysis, and I do believe that these people actually think that it is in Americas best interest to all join in the world bank. I happen to disagree with that and would like to see the country go back to what made it strong in the first place, and that is not depending on other countries for anything, rather do for ourselves . Make what we use in the US in the US, which is the opposite of where they have driven us. They have put american businesses out of work by making us the shoppers of the world, not the producers when we have more untapped natural rescourses than just about anywhere. Noo .. Instead of doing what this country really needs they want to send us straight into the "new world order" everyone heard Bush bring it up .. nothing has changed just a different driver. You ask what is in it for them? Many have been convinced this is the only way we can ensure western control of the world.
Read the quote in yellow.
I said it was NORMAL in the current situation.
I didn't said it was a NORMAL situation.
I think it is clear the 2 statements have completely different meanings.
You should read statements as intended, instead of twisting the word for your own convenience.
But I give you the benefit of the doubt, even if I think that your wacky theory is just that, link some information about the "western control of the world" through the world bank.
I am open minded and I like debates, based on facts though..............
Read the quote in yellow.
I said it was NORMAL in the current situation.
I didn't said it was a NORMAL situation.
I think it is clear the 2 statements have completely different meanings.
You should read statements as intended, instead of twisting the word for your own convenience.
But I give you the benefit of the doubt, even if I think that your wacky theory is just that, link some information about the "western control of the world" through the world bank.
I am open minded and I like debates, based on facts though..............
*sighs* I swear just last year I had to gather up all this information in another post... you are soo going to make me work! lol Gathering information from hundreds of sources as you can imagine is very time consuming , it is not like I just woke up today and said oh my they are trying to $%%#!! us over! lol this has been going on for a very long time, which I am sure you are aware of, and you just want to make me work! Here we go again ... lol
Read the quote in yellow.
I said it was NORMAL in the current situation.
I didn't said it was a NORMAL situation.
I think it is clear the 2 statements have completely different meanings.
You should read statements as intended, instead of twisting the word for your own convenience.
But I give you the benefit of the doubt, even if I think that your wacky theory is just that, link some information about the "western control of the world" through the world bank.
I am open minded and I like debates, based on facts though..............
*sighs* I swear just last year I had to gather up all this information in another post... you are soo going to make me work! lol Gathering information from hundreds of sources as you can imagine is very time consuming , it is not like I just woke up today and said oh my they are trying to $%%#!! us over! lol this has been going on for a very long time, which I am sure you are aware of, and you just want to make me work! Here we go again ... lol
The only issue I have with your take is that it's a conspiracy. What we are dealing with are not conspiracies -- but two competing movements. One side, as can be evidenced by many people on these forums, honestly believes that freedom has has its chance and has failed, and that socialism is the way to go.
The other, minority position is that we need more freedom, not less.
No need for a conspiracy when people actually WANT tyranny. No need to "create" emergencies when socialism is destructive enough for that, which leads to cries from the people for more socialism, which of course makes things worse, which leads to more cries for socialism, which makes things worse, which leads to....you get the idea.
You THINK it is obvious, I think it is obvious, so we wonder if there is INTENTION behind it. I tend to doubt that, unless the people on this forum who believe in socialism are part of the conspiracy.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Read the quote in yellow.
I said it was NORMAL in the current situation.
I didn't said it was a NORMAL situation.
I think it is clear the 2 statements have completely different meanings.
You should read statements as intended, instead of twisting the word for your own convenience.
But I give you the benefit of the doubt, even if I think that your wacky theory is just that, link some information about the "western control of the world" through the world bank.
I am open minded and I like debates, based on facts though..............
*sighs* I swear just last year I had to gather up all this information in another post... you are soo going to make me work! lol Gathering information from hundreds of sources as you can imagine is very time consuming , it is not like I just woke up today and said oh my they are trying to $%%#!! us over! lol this has been going on for a very long time, which I am sure you are aware of, and you just want to make me work! Here we go again ... lol
The only issue I have with your take is that it's a conspiracy. What we are dealing with are not conspiracies -- but two competing movements. One side, as can be evidenced by many people on these forums, honestly believes that freedom has has its chance and has failed, and that socialism is the way to go.
The other, minority position is that we need more freedom, not less.
No need for a conspiracy when people actually WANT tyranny. No need to "create" emergencies when socialism is destructive enough for that, which leads to cries from the people for more socialism, which of course makes things worse, which leads to more cries for socialism, which makes things worse, which leads to....you get the idea.
You THINK it is obvious, I think it is obvious, so we wonder if there is INTENTION behind it. I tend to doubt that, unless the people on this forum who believe in socialism are part of the conspiracy.
Well obviously there is intention behind it, and you are correct that socialism is at the core, Look at what the world bank is. All of this is in the guise of good and it honestly is sad how gullable our society really is.
We do know if Lloyds genuinely wanted to buy it.
They put it to a vote. (I voted "no").
Neither Brown, the CEO, nor the banks directors made the decision, the bank's owners did.
All the major banks here didn't want government bailouts. Bailouts mean stock price collapse, dividend suspensions and bonuses suspensions.
Lloyds took the bailout as it viewed the long term acquisition of a bank it had formerly not been allowed to merge with as an acceptable loss. When they buy out the government they are going to be the largest bank on the high street. Larger than any bank here has previously been allowed to grow.
Read the quote in yellow.
I said it was NORMAL in the current situation.
I didn't said it was a NORMAL situation.
I think it is clear the 2 statements have completely different meanings.
You should read statements as intended, instead of twisting the word for your own convenience.
But I give you the benefit of the doubt, even if I think that your wacky theory is just that, link some information about the "western control of the world" through the world bank.
I am open minded and I like debates, based on facts though..............
*sighs* I swear just last year I had to gather up all this information in another post... you are soo going to make me work! lol Gathering information from hundreds of sources as you can imagine is very time consuming , it is not like I just woke up today and said oh my they are trying to $%%#!! us over! lol this has been going on for a very long time, which I am sure you are aware of, and you just want to make me work! Here we go again ... lol
The only issue I have with your take is that it's a conspiracy. What we are dealing with are not conspiracies -- but two competing movements. One side, as can be evidenced by many people on these forums, honestly believes that freedom has has its chance and has failed, and that socialism is the way to go.
The other, minority position is that we need more freedom, not less.
No need for a conspiracy when people actually WANT tyranny. No need to "create" emergencies when socialism is destructive enough for that, which leads to cries from the people for more socialism, which of course makes things worse, which leads to more cries for socialism, which makes things worse, which leads to....you get the idea.
You THINK it is obvious, I think it is obvious, so we wonder if there is INTENTION behind it. I tend to doubt that, unless the people on this forum who believe in socialism are part of the conspiracy.
Well obviously there is intention behind it, and you are correct that socialism is at the core, Look at what the world bank is. All of this is in the guise of good and it honestly is sad how gullable our society really is.
But these are people who honestly believe freedom is bad, and socialism is good. In fact they redefine "freedom" so they can pretend they believe in freedom too.
We read their posts every day on these boards. These are NOT people who know better -- these are people who honestly believe in what they believe. To us, it seems insane, and in a certain sense it is -- but it's not people willingly setting out to secretly do evil. It is people willingly setting out to do what they think is right and good -- take away our freedom.
If I didn't see so many regular people posting and believing in the nonsense of socialism on this site and others, i'd be inclined to agree with you. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We read their posts daily.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Read the quote in yellow.
I said it was NORMAL in the current situation.
I didn't said it was a NORMAL situation.
I think it is clear the 2 statements have completely different meanings.
You should read statements as intended, instead of twisting the word for your own convenience.
But I give you the benefit of the doubt, even if I think that your wacky theory is just that, link some information about the "western control of the world" through the world bank.
I am open minded and I like debates, based on facts though..............
*sighs* I swear just last year I had to gather up all this information in another post... you are soo going to make me work! lol Gathering information from hundreds of sources as you can imagine is very time consuming , it is not like I just woke up today and said oh my they are trying to $%%#!! us over! lol this has been going on for a very long time, which I am sure you are aware of, and you just want to make me work! Here we go again ... lol
The only issue I have with your take is that it's a conspiracy. What we are dealing with are not conspiracies -- but two competing movements. One side, as can be evidenced by many people on these forums, honestly believes that freedom has has its chance and has failed, and that socialism is the way to go.
The other, minority position is that we need more freedom, not less.
No need for a conspiracy when people actually WANT tyranny. No need to "create" emergencies when socialism is destructive enough for that, which leads to cries from the people for more socialism, which of course makes things worse, which leads to more cries for socialism, which makes things worse, which leads to....you get the idea.
You THINK it is obvious, I think it is obvious, so we wonder if there is INTENTION behind it. I tend to doubt that, unless the people on this forum who believe in socialism are part of the conspiracy.
Well obviously there is intention behind it, and you are correct that socialism is at the core, Look at what the world bank is. All of this is in the guise of good and it honestly is sad how gullable our society really is.
But these are people who honestly believe freedom is bad, and socialism is good. In fact they redefine "freedom" so they can pretend they believe in freedom too.
We read their posts every day on these boards. These are NOT people who know better -- these are people who honestly believe in what they believe. To us, it seems insane, and in a certain sense it is -- but it's not people willingly setting out to secretly do evil. It is people willingly setting out to do what they think is right and good -- take away our freedom.
If I didn't see so many regular people posting and believing in the nonsense of socialism on this site and others, i'd be inclined to agree with you. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We read their posts daily.
OKay let me get this straight, you believe that they are doing this out of ignoarnce of what they are doing, and I believe that they know exactly what they are doing and are intentionally running us into hell on earth. That is the only differnce here? I guess I just cannot believe that they could be that stupid.. Yes I think the sheep are just doing what they have been socially groomed for, but I do not think that the sheppard has good intentions.
Thanks
good to see you too! I have just been so busy I haven't had time to kick back and shoot the shit lol.
Read the quote in yellow.
I said it was NORMAL in the current situation.
I didn't said it was a NORMAL situation.
I think it is clear the 2 statements have completely different meanings.
You should read statements as intended, instead of twisting the word for your own convenience.
But I give you the benefit of the doubt, even if I think that your wacky theory is just that, link some information about the "western control of the world" through the world bank.
I am open minded and I like debates, based on facts though..............
*sighs* I swear just last year I had to gather up all this information in another post... you are soo going to make me work! lol Gathering information from hundreds of sources as you can imagine is very time consuming , it is not like I just woke up today and said oh my they are trying to $%%#!! us over! lol this has been going on for a very long time, which I am sure you are aware of, and you just want to make me work! Here we go again ... lol
The only issue I have with your take is that it's a conspiracy. What we are dealing with are not conspiracies -- but two competing movements. One side, as can be evidenced by many people on these forums, honestly believes that freedom has has its chance and has failed, and that socialism is the way to go.
The other, minority position is that we need more freedom, not less.
No need for a conspiracy when people actually WANT tyranny. No need to "create" emergencies when socialism is destructive enough for that, which leads to cries from the people for more socialism, which of course makes things worse, which leads to more cries for socialism, which makes things worse, which leads to....you get the idea.
You THINK it is obvious, I think it is obvious, so we wonder if there is INTENTION behind it. I tend to doubt that, unless the people on this forum who believe in socialism are part of the conspiracy.
Well obviously there is intention behind it, and you are correct that socialism is at the core, Look at what the world bank is. All of this is in the guise of good and it honestly is sad how gullable our society really is.
But these are people who honestly believe freedom is bad, and socialism is good. In fact they redefine "freedom" so they can pretend they believe in freedom too.
We read their posts every day on these boards. These are NOT people who know better -- these are people who honestly believe in what they believe. To us, it seems insane, and in a certain sense it is -- but it's not people willingly setting out to secretly do evil. It is people willingly setting out to do what they think is right and good -- take away our freedom.
If I didn't see so many regular people posting and believing in the nonsense of socialism on this site and others, i'd be inclined to agree with you. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We read their posts daily.
OKay let me get this straight, you believe that they are doing this out of ignoarnce of what they are doing, and I believe that they know exactly what they are doing and are intentionally running us into hell on earth. That is the only differnce here? I guess I just cannot believe that they could be that stupid.. Yes I think the sheep are just doing what they have been socially groomed for, but I do not think that the sheppard has good intentions.
I believe they are as ignorant as the people we read daily on this and other websites. The people in power have been educated under the same bad theories, the same inept government education systems as the people who post here.
The truth is there is no shepherd. They are all sheep running around in circles.
To quote Ayn Rand: "a leash is a rope with a noose at both ends."
They think they are right, they think it will work -- all the theories they believe says so. Their socialist theories are their religion and it is hard to correct a lifetime of error.
fishermage.blogspot.com
"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt
www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-moore/the-rove-goes-on-forever_b_60211.html
"So you see, my dear Coningsby, that the world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes."55--Disraeli, Prime Minister of England during Queen Victoria's reign.
www.cephas-library.com/nwo/federal_reserve_chapter_6.html
Personal Message:
> thought it was good to see the REAL story
> Reuters <http://www.reuters.com/>;
> U.S. pushed Bank of America to complete Merrill buy: report <http://uk.reuters.com/article/email/idUKTRE5140OA20090205>;
> Thu Feb 05 10:14:20 UTC 2009
>
> NEW YORK (Reuters) - Federal officials pushed Bank of America Corp hard to complete its acquisition of Merrill Lynch even as credit losses mounted at the troubled investment bank, the Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday, without citing any named sources.
>
> Bank of America arguably saved Merrill from collapse in September when it quickly struck a merger agreement the same weekend Lehman Brothers went bankrupt.
>
> By December, as Merrill's losses were soaring, BofA Chief Executive Ken Lewis told U.S. Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke he was having second thoughts, the paper said, according to people close to Lewis.
>
> But Paulson and Bernanke on December 17 "forcefully urged Mr. Lewis not to walk away," the paper reported. They warned Lewis that if the deal collapsed, Merrill could be doomed and that their confidence in Bank of America would be "undercut."
>
> Days later, Bernanke told Lewis Bank of America had no grounds to walk away, the Journal reported, citing people who heard the remarks. Another Federal Reserve official warned that if Lewis did walk away and later needed more government money, regulators might consider ousting executives and directors, people close to the bank say.
>
> During the four weeks that followed, federal officials and Bank of America worked out a deal to preserve the Merrill deal. The government agreed to provide $20 billion in additional capital for the bank and to insure against losses on $118 billion in troubled assets.
>
> Officials from the bank and from the government could not be reached immediately for comment on events described by the Journal report.
>
> Bank of America previously received $25 billion as one of nine U.S. banks that kicked off the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP, last fall.
>
> Bank of America's Lewis has come under fire in recent weeks after his bank announced much larger than expected losses from Merrill and revealed it was receiving a second capital injection.
>
> The bank's stock price has been hammered as shareholders, who were asked to approve the merger in December, complain they should have been warned about Merrill's woes earlier.
>
Though this story is still omitting alot of details it is more accurate than the others.
If you expect that small shareholders like you count on big decisions, then you should not invest in corporations.
And I guess you are a small shareholder since you cannot even remember the bank you merged with..........
The decisions are taken by the board of directors together with the major stakeholders (those usually elect the CEO and have members on the board, not the minor shareholders which have maximun 1 rapresentative for all of them).
So, Brown talks with the Lloyds board, and they come up with a sort of deal (which I repeat neither me or you will ever get to know the details).
Then the board talk with the major shareholders, regarding their intention (this is the part where people that counts, meet each other in private meetings to discuss the deals, possibly in front of the Spearmint Rhino lap dancers).
If the major shareholders are already opposed, the proposal won't even reach the voting stage (since the deal is still unofficial).
If the major shareholders agree on principles, the board formally announce the deal to the public and submit the proposal to every shareholders for a vote.
But because the major shareholders already agreed informally, the minor shareholders vote won't make too much of a difference.
So in the end in the financial market, politics and business walk hand in hand, in particular in this difficult situations.
And unlikely whatever you might think, decisions are taken by the board together with the major shareholders (except when the oucome is too close in which case the minor shareholders make the difference, but it is rare).
So with Gordon Brown promising the Lloyds board a bail out if they bought HBOS, Llloyds will become one of the biggest bank in Europe when the crysis ends (because Lloyds will buy back the shares from the government)
Without that guarantee, I doubt Lloyds would have bought a shitload of debts in the shape of HBOS in this particular time (maybe before the crysis that was the case, but not now).
Well this is the kind of "advice" I mean every time I mention it (I give you someting, you give me something).
I am trying to explain how things really work, not how they are supposed to work, I hope people understand this.
That would be the Americans, then, seeing as 'the rest of the world follows the U.S.'
If you expect that small shareholders like you count on big decisions, then you should not invest in corporations.
And I guess you are a small shareholder since you cannot even remember the bank you merged with..........
The decisions are taken by the board of directors together with the major stakeholders (those usually elect the CEO and have members on the board, not the minor shareholders which have maximun 1 rapresentative for all of them).
So, Brown talks with the Lloyds board, and they come up with a sort of deal (which I repeat neither me or you will ever get to know the details).
Then the board talk with the major shareholders, regarding their intention (this is the part where people that counts, meet each other in private meetings to discuss the deals, possibly in front of the Spearmint Rhino lap dancers).
If the major shareholders are already opposed, the proposal won't even reach the voting stage (since the deal is still unofficial).
If the major shareholders agree on principles, the board formally announce the deal to the public and submit the proposal to every shareholders for a vote.
But because the major shareholders already agreed informally, the minor shareholders vote won't make too much of a difference.
So in the end in the financial market, politics and business walk hand in hand, in particular in this difficult situations.
And unlikely whatever you might think, decisions are taken by the board together with the major shareholders (except when the oucome is too close in which case the minor shareholders make the difference, but it is rare).
So with Gordon Brown promising the Lloyds board a bail out if they bought HBOS, Llloyds will become one of the biggest bank in Europe when the crysis ends (because Lloyds will buy back the shares from the government)
Without that guarantee, I doubt Lloyds would have bought a shitload of debts in the shape of HBOS in this particular time (maybe before the crysis that was the case, but not now).
Well this is the kind of "advice" I mean every time I mention it (I give you someting, you give me something).
I am trying to explain how things really work, not how they are supposed to work, I hope people understand this.
I'm a small shareholder yes.
And sorry, one bankrupt Bank of Scotland sounds a lot like another bankrupt Bank of Scotland to me. My mistake. H,R? whats the difference? neither of them are paying me anything and I'm not in a profitable position to sell.
And no my vote counted for very little, it was the major shareholders that held the decisive power. My point however remains. The desicions were not made by government nor the Board of directors. They were made by the banks owners.
I do know what the directors said to the shareholders. I was one of them.
Was it a straight forward vote, predecided in a back room? It seemed pretty public to me.
Dissected daily in the newspapers, daily in parliament. Letters to the stock holder. Permanent dissection on 24 hour TV. There aren't many take overs as publicly accountable and high profile as this one was.
Shareholders were expected to veto it by many people. Lloyds shares (at the time) paid an exceptionally high dividend. Investors bought them for their secure dividend return not for risky capital gain. A five year government ban on dividends in return for a broken bank merger with bailout was not something Lloyds shareholders were keen to swallow.
It bounced back and forward for a long time before being finalised. Lloyds backed out of the negotiations twice I think before finally accepting.
Lloyds is set to buyout the government stake this year (£4 billion). In the meantime dividends are being paid in the form of stock.
Yup read that and thousands of pages on conspiracies for over twenty years. Not convinced, certainly not by anything Roosevelt says. Disraeli at least I have some respect for, but still -- a government dude is not to be trusted when it comes to his perceptions on power. Everyone in politics believes in conspiracy -- because they themselves conspire regularly. They realize how little control THEY have, no matter what they do -- so they imagine there are secret chiefs above them.
These people haven't a clue as to who and what "runs" the world -- it never has been government. That being said, they are all mystics of one manner or another, so they cling to beliefs and fetishes. They believe the world is a thing that can be controlled.
That is nonsense and has always been the case. Those sad, sick people who enter politics for power lust however, MUST have this be true if life is to have any meaning.
They still feel a sense of their own impotence though, which leads to belief in conspiracy.
Just sad little men who want to rule a world that can't be ruled.
Still no evidence of a grand conspiracy. Just evidence who would rather be evil than stupid themselves, and assume everyone else is. Sadly, they are both.
Plenty of evidence for nasty little conspiracies which go on all the time.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Also, quotes are meaningless without context. Do you know the exact context of your quotes. If not, there's no way they can "prove" anything. They aren't even evidence of anything without an ecact context.
fishermage.blogspot.com
That would be the Americans, then, seeing as 'the rest of the world follows the U.S.'
Ah, gotta love the anti-Americanism on this site. The fact is it was SOME Americans, and socialists all over the world that are to blame.
If you have been in favor of socialism at any point in your life, this economic situation is YOUR baby.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Even if one can't believe in an "Illuminati" scenario the coporation ruling "Shadowrun" scenario is staring to get a bit more nervous as one can think about it.
I will say follow your TV commercial which points out the 2.5 million U.S. job loss while moving in 1.5 million foreign workers in the same year.
Watch your Lou Dobbs which showed Bill Gates at Congress punching in for those Visas while both parties just pratically look like they want to kiss him outright. No debate. Just, "Thank you for the products you provide. Thanks for improving my life." No concerns about hiring Americans first but only foreigners are needed 100% of the time without even so much looking towards an American.
Apply what you're watching and something sinister has to be going on.
Edit: grammar
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Even if one can't believe in an "Illuminati" scenario the coporation ruling "Shadowrun" scenario is staring to get a bit more nervous as one can think about it.
I will say follow your TV commercial which points out the 2.5 million U.S. job loss while moving in 1.5 million foreign workers in the same year.
Watch your Lou Dobbs which showed Bill Gates at Congress punching in for those Visas while both parties just pratically look like they want to kiss him outright. No debate. Just, "Thank you for the products you provide. Thanks for improving my life." No concerns about hiring Americans first but only foreigners are needed 100% of the time without even so much looking towards an American.
Apply watch you're watching and something sinister has to be going on.
I have been watching socialism destroy the world my whole life. Plenty of sinister out there -- but it's happening in the open. People honestly believe in something evil. They think this evil is good.
That's not a conspiracy. Just evil is as evil does. Just as stupid is as stupid does.
Again, people on this site, people on every forum I post and read believe in this moral cannibalism that is destroying the world. No conspiracy when we are all in on it.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I have been watching socialism destroy the world my whole life. ...
Can you point some examples?
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I have been watching socialism destroy the world my whole life. ...
Can you point some examples?
Russia, China, Germany, Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq, Turkey, Israel, France, England, Japan, and almost every country on earth. You name it, the cult of cannibalism which is socialism is rotting them all from the inside.
Then, the United States, the freest, greatest capitalist nation in history, embraces socialism and drags the rest of the world with it. Pretty easy to see and anyone would know this was the result of it, but as I was telling devlicious, most people, like the people she thinks are in charge of a conspiracy, and you, I suppose, don't even understand this.
Thanks for helping me prove its not a conspiracy.
See Devilicious? They do not think it is evil. Why should the "people in power" be any different?
fishermage.blogspot.com
I have been watching socialism destroy the world my whole life. ...
Can you point some examples?
Russia, China, Germany, Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq, Turkey, Israel, France, England, Japan, and almost every country on earth. You name it, the cult of cannibalism which is socialism is rotting them all from the inside.
Then, the United States, the freest, greatest capitalist nation in history, embraces socialism and drags the rest of the world with it. Pretty easy to see and anyone would know this was the result of it, but as I was telling devlicious, most people, like the people she thinks are in charge of a conspiracy, and you, I suppose, don't even understand this.
Thanks for helping me prove its not a conspiracy.
See Devilicious? They do not think it is evil. Why should the "people in power" be any different?
Don't assume that I'm unable or unwilling to understand. If you're sufficiently versed in an area, you should be able to explain it to virtually anybody.
I'll leave the rest of the countries out of this, and just ask about the ol' USA. What are you referring to when you say "embraces socialism and drags the rest of the world with it."?
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I have been watching socialism destroy the world my whole life. ...
Can you point some examples?
Russia, China, Germany, Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq, Turkey, Israel, France, England, Japan, and almost every country on earth. You name it, the cult of cannibalism which is socialism is rotting them all from the inside.
Then, the United States, the freest, greatest capitalist nation in history, embraces socialism and drags the rest of the world with it. Pretty easy to see and anyone would know this was the result of it, but as I was telling devlicious, most people, like the people she thinks are in charge of a conspiracy, and you, I suppose, don't even understand this.
Thanks for helping me prove its not a conspiracy.
See Devilicious? They do not think it is evil. Why should the "people in power" be any different?
Don't assume that I'm unable or unwilling to understand. If you're sufficiently versed in an area, you should be able to explain it to virtually anybody.
I'll leave the rest of the countries out of this, and just ask about the ol' USA. What are you referring to when you say "embraces socialism and drags the rest of the world with it."?
I am assuming nothing. I can explain anything to anyone. take some time and read my hundreds of posts and see that. however, what you are bringing up has nothing to do with the discussion at hand (except to help me prove my point).
back to the context you keep wanting to drop, I feel you should already know all of this, and the fact that you don't proves that good people can believe in or accept evil ideas. It proves my point to Devilicious which you are trying tp hijack, yet at the same time making my point to her for me.
I do not want to hijack this thread into a debate about why socialism is evil. If you don't know this, great, feel free to your views. I have wasted far too many hours arguing about THAT subject on these forums (which also proves my point). Read my old posts if you want that. Read the hundreds of essays and books on the subject.
However, even though it was an attempt at a sidebar hijack, I am glad you came along to show Devilicious what I am talking about. You see, Devilicious, we have here a perfect example of an obviously bright guy who does not see how evil socialism is. He doesn't see it as slavery, unless of course he is just being a troll and just wants to start an internet fight.
In fact, there are many people on these forums who honestly believe in the ideologies that will produce the "hell on earth" that you pin on a conspiracy. See? None needed.
They believe in that which is destroying us. They are not a secret society of power brokers, just ordinary, decent people who believe in bad stuff. Why the need to invent this vast conspiracy to be doing things that the very ideas held by regular people on this forum is all that is required for what is transpiring?
Again, Asprnbtl, thanks for the help.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I have been watching socialism destroy the world my whole life. ...
Can you point some examples?
Russia, China, Germany, Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq, Turkey, Israel, France, England, Japan, and almost every country on earth. You name it, the cult of cannibalism which is socialism is rotting them all from the inside.
Then, the United States, the freest, greatest capitalist nation in history, embraces socialism and drags the rest of the world with it. Pretty easy to see and anyone would know this was the result of it, but as I was telling devlicious, most people, like the people she thinks are in charge of a conspiracy, and you, I suppose, don't even understand this.
Thanks for helping me prove its not a conspiracy.
See Devilicious? They do not think it is evil. Why should the "people in power" be any different?
Don't assume that I'm unable or unwilling to understand. If you're sufficiently versed in an area, you should be able to explain it to virtually anybody.
I'll leave the rest of the countries out of this, and just ask about the ol' USA. What are you referring to when you say "embraces socialism and drags the rest of the world with it."?
I am assuming nothing. I can explain anything to anyone. take some time and read my hundreds of posts and see that. however, what you are bringing up has nothing to do with the discussion at hand (except to help me prove my point).
back to the context you keep wanting to drop, I feel you should already know all of this, and the fact that you don't proves that good people can believe in or accept evil ideas. It proves my point to Devilicious which you are trying tp hijack, yet at the same time making my point to her for me.
I do not want to hijack this thread into a debate about why socialism is evil. If you don't know this, great, feel free to your views. I have wasted far too many hours arguing about THAT subject on these forums (which also proves my point). Read my old posts if you want that. Read the hundreds of essays and books on the subject.
However, even though it was an attempt at a sidebar hijack, I am glad you came along to show Devilicious what I am talking about. You see, Devilicious, we have here a perfect example of an obviously bright guy who does not see how evil socialism is. He doesn't see it as slavery, unless of course he is just being a troll and just wants to start an internet fight.
...Ahh but you are making assumptions. You're assuming that either I'm ignorant about socialism, or that I'm trolling your thread. I just asked some questions about your statements, no pretext, no trolling.
I just wanted some more depth on those particular items that I responded to.
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