After reading a lot of post sabout WAR, it occurred to me that much of the comparision of new MMOs is in relations to MMOs that have had years to develope and improve, Unlike other computer games, MMOs grow and evolve over time, generally improving quite substantly (and content increasing vastly). So are we making unfair criticisms of the new boys on the blocks?
One thing a lot of people who post on here fail to realize is, that we are about 15% of actual people who play all these games. The larger % of people have no idea what is said on these boards. Same applys to the actual game home boards. the larger majority doesnt read forums like MMORPG. More then half my WoW and Vanguard guild dont even know about this site.
Yes, the more MMO we play the more we tend to cling to expectations based on experiences. For instance, my first MMO was SWG and I loved it, and such I will always seek this experience again, maybe like with out first true love, and so we are closed too much to the goodness of new, different things.
On the other hand, I do have this feeling that games per se and MMOs in particular have grown more shallow and simplified, and despite all this games are not as good as they used to be.
Heh, that reminds me of some saying of Tolkien, since I am an Elf at heart, it is said, never ask an Elf, for he will say both yes and no, but I feel this is the only real way to answer which sounds true to me.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by Elikal Well, yes and no. Yes, the more MMO we play the more we tend to cling to expectations based on experiences. For instance, my first MMO was SWG and I loved it, and such I will always seek this experience again, maybe like with out first true love, and so we are closed too much to the goodness of new, different things. On the other hand, I do have this feeling that games per se and MMOs in particular have grown more shallow and simplified, and despite all this games are not as good as they used to be. Heh, that reminds me of some saying of Tolkien, since I am an Elf at heart, it is said, never ask an Elf, for he will say both yes and no, but I feel this is the only real way to answer which sounds true to me.
SWG was my 4th MMO and it was by far my favorite so I don't think it was just because it was your first.
I think if the game is good it will stand the test of time. Even if it fails to meet hype, if its a good game a majority of people will enjoy it and stay even if it isn't what was expected.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
Yes Yes & Yes. OP is 100% right on the money. I also think , Game Engine's Windows OS And Computer parts are hurting this industry. There is simply to much scrap out there. Cost to make a Mmo is to high. -
Everything is half assed. The Latess failure of mmo in 2008 is due to the hole PC industry, not just the Game company. Its just such a mess Right now.
What what and what?
How are game engines, Windows OS, and Computer parts hurting this industry?
Game engines are whatever the devs make them to be. Windows OS had the majority of it's problems with 3rd party drivers, and the computer parts out now aren't even close to being fully utilized by the games coming out now.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
After reading a lot of post sabout WAR, it occurred to me that much of the comparision of new MMOs is in relations to MMOs that have had years to develope and improve, Unlike other computer games, MMOs grow and evolve over time, generally improving quite substantly (and content increasing vastly). So are we making unfair criticisms of the new boys on the blocks?
I think you are just looking at this wrong, I doubt most people are making comparisons to new mmo's to established ones, I certainly don't.
What people want is a game that is fun and works out of the box, that is a concept that mmo makers are trying to fool us on with this notion thta these games get better with time too many companies are releasing games that simply don't work good enough.
As a casual observer of the industry I think the criticism garnered by WAR is far different and less hostile than that of AOC which points out what I have always believed we can far bettter tolerate a game that just isn't fun than a game that is just horribly designed and broken.
Far too many games have been released that worked fairly well out of the box for the problems we see in mmos.
A better way to look at it is this imagine you order cable tv and you only got say 4 more channels than public tv would you really accept the ceo saying "well if you guys keep lining our pockets in a year we will have forty channels."? This is what is happening in mmos now fanbois jumping on the compmany band wagon trying to convince us for their own personal satisfaction I might add that we need to pay them to finish a product give me something that out of the box works and is fun and I have no problem heck if it works I may overlook some of the fun for a while but that's not what's happening.
Now this opinion is obviously predicated on my belief that the criticism of WAR has not been as bad as an AOC or Vanguard.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
of course we are, anyone who says otherwise is ignorant.
it wont stop though, its just going to keep going on and on.
When I read a statement that says "our" I can assume I am included in said statement and since you don't know me you can hardly make any assesments about my state of intelligence I disagree for reasons I stated above and also think the only ignorant thing I've read in this thread is what you just wrote.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Looking at it this way I guess the post would be right the difference though is once again I can only speak for me and I don't criticise games for being un fun I criticise games and companies for being unscrupulous or broken in this global market we have you aren't going to find any product mmo or not that doesn't recieve criticism the real question is are companies getting undeserved criticism? And the answer to that is no (at least for me) WAR was boring I moved on AOC was a sham I rallied soe pulled some pretty nasty practices out of their rears as far as swg was concerned I rallied city of heores was not much fun I moved on.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I hold all new mmorpg's to the GW: Prophicies standard.
1: the game must come close to GW:Prophpicies stunning beauty and art.
2: the game must in some form break the mold. The mold I refer to is that from which WoW was spawned.
3: the game must not rape us on items cost or monthly cost. Progression should not be item mall driven.
4: the game had better be freaking fun right from the beggining.
5: the game had better in some way give players lots of options.
6: the players must have the right to form inclusive social networks
Now then that seems like alot but is it really?
1: devs aren't trying hard enough. Since ANet was able to rape profit to the point of animosity, and then break it's legs ensuring it wouldn't run away without relying on the monthly fee baseball bat, i'm really dissapointed when a game isn't "beautifull". To be blunt, i don't think that if your fresh out of a four year college that your really ready for the mmorpg world. Since it's bigger profits, bigger loss, and people are so critical I believe the console market might be a better place to really develop your skills and personal style.
2: so many mmorpg's seem the same, interface, input, open persistant world with instanced private dungeons, most are carebear friendly and offer little pvp thrills. GW was diff in being skillbased. Darkfall is doing a good job of breaking the mold I must say. T.E.R.A. is sounding promising with it's no targetting feature, but in the last 2 or 3 years, encouraging and making all pvp take place in private realms instead of the open world, well that is annoying. If your going to have a "pvp" server, make it a server where people are more than happy to "pk".
If you are going to completely mimic another game then you had better make your game x10 better.
Oh and unless your setting is "pigs flying" there is nothing unique about it. Sci-fi has been done, fantasy has been done, horror has been done, happy bunny land has been done. So while you may be able to convince some people your game is great because of it's theme that doesn't mean it is, and people will realize that once they've played it.
3: again..GW made a huge profit, and had a ton of people playing without even a monthly fee. I wouldn't mind some item mall magic provided that you could get almost the same gear ingame, that the item mall wasn't an "I win" button.
4: many people in GW: Proph never leave the starting area. It is just so freaking beautifull...besides that a big event happens right off the bat forever affecting an entire people. You have missions right off the bat *MISSIONS NOT QUESTS* besides quests. GW Proph has a "tutorial" area in the beginning but the interface is so simple, and the world so obvious that you only need a whole of 2 minutes to adjust to the game.
5: options. Most games follow rigid class systems, with some of them not even letting you choose the sex of your class! What's the point of facial/hair features then huh!? Some games that are rigid in their class system also are not multi class, and only offer a handfull of skills. Not even enough skills for you to approach a situation in differant ways. Games with multi classing, no classing, with cheap easy armour dye systems, that let you choose the sex of your class, or that have multiple encounter zones all have at least one good thing about them. Thing is, you don't need a million differant types of options, just many options of one type interesting enough to keep players amused!!
6: Social Networking: During everyones lives, at some point or another, everyone has been told to acknowledge and reply to somebody they would rather ignore. Policing players so that they "have" to include everybody is superbly annoying. You don't do this in real life, unless your the annoying parent who would rather make several people unhappy at the cost of making that one sad lonely kid happy.
After reading a lot of post sabout WAR, it occurred to me that much of the comparision of new MMOs is in relations to MMOs that have had years to develope and improve, Unlike other computer games, MMOs grow and evolve over time, generally improving quite substantly (and content increasing vastly). So are we making unfair criticisms of the new boys on the blocks?
Not at all, actually the new MMO's have an advantage over the older ones! They can observe and see what works and what didnt work and apply that as lessons learned!
So i would say that new MMO's (or new boys on the block) have an advantage and deserve the criticisms provided by gamers!
Most of the issues that stem from new MMO's (or new boys on the block) is thier poor attempt to 'clone' whats already been done, and on top of that they do a very poor attempt which is why they basically nail their own coffin!
Hmm...if anything I think we have begun to lower our expectations.
My first MMO was UO, had player housing, crafting that mattered, open world, good PvP n PvE. Second MMO I spend a decent amount of time in was SWG, had player housing, crafting that mattered, open world, good PvP n PvE.
Most new MMOs...mediocre PvE, n PvP. Crafting doesn't matter in most games, many worlds are not all that open, n usually player housing is non existent or instanced.
So in my opion, we should expect more from todays games than the games we had 10 years ago. Everything else in the world has improved over the past 10 years...MMOs seemed to have gone the other way.
No, we are not the problem. I don't expect much from my MMO, outside of a few reasonable things. Well thought out and developed gameplay, feature complete at initial release, free of serious defects, and well tested until its a smooth running game.
LoTRO was actually quite good, it just has gameplay mechnanics (or lack thereof) that are not what I'm looking for, but it was a good game at release. If Turbine can do it, why not Funcom and Mythic?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
No, we are not the problem. I don't expect much from my MMO, outside of a few reasonable things. Well thought out and developed gameplay, feature complete at initial release, free of serious defects, and well tested until its a smooth running game. LoTRO was actually quite good, it just has gameplay mechnanics (or lack thereof) that are not what I'm looking for, but it was a good game at release. If Turbine can do it, why not Funcom and Mythic? If you build it (correctly) they will come.
As far as I remember did LOTRO have the worst lack of content in a launching game I ever seen so it wasn't perfect either. They been patching it in for years now, buggs isn't the only problem of a launching MMO.
But yes, any new MMO will be bashed by a lot of players today.
The problem with the games that have been released the last few years have been that they are not fun enough to play however, not buggs or lack of content.
Don't think so. I think the problem is our expection is "something different", which we are constantly promised but never given.
Granted there are games that are different, but for a nice crowd, such as Eve. I'm sure based on the popularity and numbers that it's a fine game, but it's not my cup of tea.
My expectations aren't too high, but the game should at least work properly. I do believe that it's time to evolve, though. MMOs are staying pretty much the same, and it's getting boring. It's 2009! It's time for devs to step their game up, innovate!
No, we are not the problem. I don't expect much from my MMO, outside of a few reasonable things. Well thought out and developed gameplay, feature complete at initial release, free of serious defects, and well tested until its a smooth running game. LoTRO was actually quite good, it just has gameplay mechnanics (or lack thereof) that are not what I'm looking for, but it was a good game at release. If Turbine can do it, why not Funcom and Mythic? If you build it (correctly) they will come.
As far as I remember did LOTRO have the worst lack of content in a launching game I ever seen so it wasn't perfect either. They been patching it in for years now, buggs isn't the only problem of a launching MMO.
But yes, any new MMO will be bashed by a lot of players today.
The problem with the games that have been released the last few years have been that they are not fun enough to play however, not buggs or lack of content.
Lack of content is relative. I paid a few months, and my highest character was like level 30. I had no problem with a lack of content, however I realize in that same time some folks were at level 50 with not much else to do.
But Tubine quickly started a pattern of regular patch releases that seemed to keep people quite happy.
And keep in mind, Turbine delivered what they promised at launch, which is all anyone can ask for.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
No, we are not the problem. I don't expect much from my MMO, outside of a few reasonable things. Well thought out and developed gameplay, feature complete at initial release, free of serious defects, and well tested until its a smooth running game. LoTRO was actually quite good, it just has gameplay mechnanics (or lack thereof) that are not what I'm looking for, but it was a good game at release. If Turbine can do it, why not Funcom and Mythic? If you build it (correctly) they will come.
As far as I remember did LOTRO have the worst lack of content in a launching game I ever seen so it wasn't perfect either. They been patching it in for years now, buggs isn't the only problem of a launching MMO.
But yes, any new MMO will be bashed by a lot of players today.
The problem with the games that have been released the last few years have been that they are not fun enough to play however, not buggs or lack of conten
It hasnt even been out for 2 years yet and they packed on tons of content.
I think yes on this site. This site is full of vets from the days of old SWG, EQ, and UO. Even people in this thread has stated they basicly justw ant a sandbox and one even said they wanted all linear games to fail. Well, imo, I think we won't see a AAA sandbox game. Unless one of these indie companies can make it huge why bother? Follow the WoW format make some changes of your own and you can reach a much wider audience.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Of coarse any MMO is going to get criticism from some ppl. I mean there are people that say WoW is the worst MMO ever, and it may be for them but most people can recognize the good with the bad.
And if there are so many people that hate new incoming games that just means there's that much of a potential player base for something new.
The problem is this year we've just had a lot of badly made MMOs. I mean Tabula Rosa, AoC, PoB? It's like they all saw what happened to Vanguard and figured if worse came to worse SOE would buy them.
But there's also been a huge drop in innovation after the huge success of WoW for some reason. I mean lets skim over the history of MMOs. First there was Ultima online (wow, an MMO, how novel!), then EQ1 (omg! it's an MMO in 3D), and... well the next one I played was FFXI (oh cool, still first generation but now there's weapon and magic combos's for a more interactive group dynamic) and then in 2003-4 boom! A new generation, it's like all the game companies knew they could do better so they made some radical stuff. I mean this is the time we got EVE and Guild Wars, still two completely unique MMOs unlike any others. And of coarse we had the EQ2/WoW war (lol I was so sure EQ2 was gonna win that one), which both came up with the basic combat system we see what seems like everything copying today.
All they did was think, "Hey, lets give melee classes spells too! ...well call em... skills! or comat arts!" But it suddenly made the pace of these games much faster and you felt like you were doing a lot more. Now though everyone copies the model of combat. And don't tell me about AoC, all they did in the end was change it from pressing 1 button to use a skill to pressing 3 buttons to use a skill.
You can see a huge difference between the way developers approached thing back in 2003-4 and now. Back then they knew the genere could be so much more and decided to experiment and think outside of the box, so we got new games that were radically different like GW, EVE, and WoW. Now though developers (or more likely publishers) just embrace the box, thinking they can make a decent WoW clone without having to spend the type of money Blizzard did.
So in 2005-8 we get some decent but ungroundbreaking titles like DDO, LoTRO, and WAR. They all try to be different but in a safe way. They all use essentially the same combat system as WoW/EQ2 but then go for some nitch audiance that WoW has let slip away, like players that prefer PvP or more realistic graphics.
However we can't blame developers/publishers completely for being so prudent. After all, they have to pitch there idea to investors who just saw Lord British and Mr. EQ1 burn plenty of cash on there totally new and groundbreaking MMO venture.
So now it's seemed like the industry has finally collapsed on it's lame ideas and thus led Tabula Rosa being the first major MMO title I've heard of dieing and AoC being launched without a second half.
The problem is people, such as people here, complain about nothing new in the MMORPG genre, then some company does make something new like Pirates of the Burning Sea or Auto Assault and the developers get bashed to hell by people screaming "YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS LIKE WOW DID" about every feature.
They want new, but then they complain that it's different than what's old.
Comments
One thing a lot of people who post on here fail to realize is, that we are about 15% of actual people who play all these games. The larger % of people have no idea what is said on these boards. Same applys to the actual game home boards. the larger majority doesnt read forums like MMORPG. More then half my WoW and Vanguard guild dont even know about this site.
Well, yes and no.
Yes, the more MMO we play the more we tend to cling to expectations based on experiences. For instance, my first MMO was SWG and I loved it, and such I will always seek this experience again, maybe like with out first true love, and so we are closed too much to the goodness of new, different things.
On the other hand, I do have this feeling that games per se and MMOs in particular have grown more shallow and simplified, and despite all this games are not as good as they used to be.
Heh, that reminds me of some saying of Tolkien, since I am an Elf at heart, it is said, never ask an Elf, for he will say both yes and no, but I feel this is the only real way to answer which sounds true to me.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
SWG was my 4th MMO and it was by far my favorite so I don't think it was just because it was your first.
I think if the game is good it will stand the test of time. Even if it fails to meet hype, if its a good game a majority of people will enjoy it and stay even if it isn't what was expected.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
Yes Yes & Yes. OP is 100% right on the money.
I also think , Game Engine's Windows OS And Computer parts are hurting this industry.
There is simply to much scrap out there. Cost to make a Mmo is to high. -
Everything is half assed. The Latess failure of mmo in 2008 is due to the hole PC industry, not just the Game company.
Its just such a mess Right now.
What what and what?
How are game engines, Windows OS, and Computer parts hurting this industry?
Game engines are whatever the devs make them to be. Windows OS had the majority of it's problems with 3rd party drivers, and the computer parts out now aren't even close to being fully utilized by the games coming out now.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Why is WAR so buggy on my Awsom PC?
Why is AoC Graphics Glitching and making my eye's bleed?
Why is My vista Locking up out of no-were?
I think you are just looking at this wrong, I doubt most people are making comparisons to new mmo's to established ones, I certainly don't.
What people want is a game that is fun and works out of the box, that is a concept that mmo makers are trying to fool us on with this notion thta these games get better with time too many companies are releasing games that simply don't work good enough.
As a casual observer of the industry I think the criticism garnered by WAR is far different and less hostile than that of AOC which points out what I have always believed we can far bettter tolerate a game that just isn't fun than a game that is just horribly designed and broken.
Far too many games have been released that worked fairly well out of the box for the problems we see in mmos.
A better way to look at it is this imagine you order cable tv and you only got say 4 more channels than public tv would you really accept the ceo saying "well if you guys keep lining our pockets in a year we will have forty channels."? This is what is happening in mmos now fanbois jumping on the compmany band wagon trying to convince us for their own personal satisfaction I might add that we need to pay them to finish a product give me something that out of the box works and is fun and I have no problem heck if it works I may overlook some of the fun for a while but that's not what's happening.
Now this opinion is obviously predicated on my belief that the criticism of WAR has not been as bad as an AOC or Vanguard.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
When I read a statement that says "our" I can assume I am included in said statement and since you don't know me you can hardly make any assesments about my state of intelligence I disagree for reasons I stated above and also think the only ignorant thing I've read in this thread is what you just wrote.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Looking at it this way I guess the post would be right the difference though is once again I can only speak for me and I don't criticise games for being un fun I criticise games and companies for being unscrupulous or broken in this global market we have you aren't going to find any product mmo or not that doesn't recieve criticism the real question is are companies getting undeserved criticism? And the answer to that is no (at least for me) WAR was boring I moved on AOC was a sham I rallied soe pulled some pretty nasty practices out of their rears as far as swg was concerned I rallied city of heores was not much fun I moved on.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I hold all new mmorpg's to the GW: Prophicies standard.
1: the game must come close to GW:Prophpicies stunning beauty and art.
2: the game must in some form break the mold. The mold I refer to is that from which WoW was spawned.
3: the game must not rape us on items cost or monthly cost. Progression should not be item mall driven.
4: the game had better be freaking fun right from the beggining.
5: the game had better in some way give players lots of options.
6: the players must have the right to form inclusive social networks
Now then that seems like alot but is it really?
1: devs aren't trying hard enough. Since ANet was able to rape profit to the point of animosity, and then break it's legs ensuring it wouldn't run away without relying on the monthly fee baseball bat, i'm really dissapointed when a game isn't "beautifull". To be blunt, i don't think that if your fresh out of a four year college that your really ready for the mmorpg world. Since it's bigger profits, bigger loss, and people are so critical I believe the console market might be a better place to really develop your skills and personal style.
2: so many mmorpg's seem the same, interface, input, open persistant world with instanced private dungeons, most are carebear friendly and offer little pvp thrills. GW was diff in being skillbased. Darkfall is doing a good job of breaking the mold I must say. T.E.R.A. is sounding promising with it's no targetting feature, but in the last 2 or 3 years, encouraging and making all pvp take place in private realms instead of the open world, well that is annoying. If your going to have a "pvp" server, make it a server where people are more than happy to "pk".
If you are going to completely mimic another game then you had better make your game x10 better.
Oh and unless your setting is "pigs flying" there is nothing unique about it. Sci-fi has been done, fantasy has been done, horror has been done, happy bunny land has been done. So while you may be able to convince some people your game is great because of it's theme that doesn't mean it is, and people will realize that once they've played it.
3: again..GW made a huge profit, and had a ton of people playing without even a monthly fee. I wouldn't mind some item mall magic provided that you could get almost the same gear ingame, that the item mall wasn't an "I win" button.
4: many people in GW: Proph never leave the starting area. It is just so freaking beautifull...besides that a big event happens right off the bat forever affecting an entire people. You have missions right off the bat *MISSIONS NOT QUESTS* besides quests. GW Proph has a "tutorial" area in the beginning but the interface is so simple, and the world so obvious that you only need a whole of 2 minutes to adjust to the game.
5: options. Most games follow rigid class systems, with some of them not even letting you choose the sex of your class! What's the point of facial/hair features then huh!? Some games that are rigid in their class system also are not multi class, and only offer a handfull of skills. Not even enough skills for you to approach a situation in differant ways. Games with multi classing, no classing, with cheap easy armour dye systems, that let you choose the sex of your class, or that have multiple encounter zones all have at least one good thing about them. Thing is, you don't need a million differant types of options, just many options of one type interesting enough to keep players amused!!
6: Social Networking: During everyones lives, at some point or another, everyone has been told to acknowledge and reply to somebody they would rather ignore. Policing players so that they "have" to include everybody is superbly annoying. You don't do this in real life, unless your the annoying parent who would rather make several people unhappy at the cost of making that one sad lonely kid happy.
Not at all, actually the new MMO's have an advantage over the older ones! They can observe and see what works and what didnt work and apply that as lessons learned!
So i would say that new MMO's (or new boys on the block) have an advantage and deserve the criticisms provided by gamers!
Most of the issues that stem from new MMO's (or new boys on the block) is thier poor attempt to 'clone' whats already been done, and on top of that they do a very poor attempt which is why they basically nail their own coffin!
10 print "go home"
20 goto 10
Hmm...if anything I think we have begun to lower our expectations.
My first MMO was UO, had player housing, crafting that mattered, open world, good PvP n PvE. Second MMO I spend a decent amount of time in was SWG, had player housing, crafting that mattered, open world, good PvP n PvE.
Most new MMOs...mediocre PvE, n PvP. Crafting doesn't matter in most games, many worlds are not all that open, n usually player housing is non existent or instanced.
So in my opion, we should expect more from todays games than the games we had 10 years ago. Everything else in the world has improved over the past 10 years...MMOs seemed to have gone the other way.
No, we are not the problem. I don't expect much from my MMO, outside of a few reasonable things. Well thought out and developed gameplay, feature complete at initial release, free of serious defects, and well tested until its a smooth running game.
LoTRO was actually quite good, it just has gameplay mechnanics (or lack thereof) that are not what I'm looking for, but it was a good game at release. If Turbine can do it, why not Funcom and Mythic?
If you build it (correctly) they will come.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As far as I remember did LOTRO have the worst lack of content in a launching game I ever seen so it wasn't perfect either. They been patching it in for years now, buggs isn't the only problem of a launching MMO.
But yes, any new MMO will be bashed by a lot of players today.
The problem with the games that have been released the last few years have been that they are not fun enough to play however, not buggs or lack of content.
Don't think so. I think the problem is our expection is "something different", which we are constantly promised but never given.
Granted there are games that are different, but for a nice crowd, such as Eve. I'm sure based on the popularity and numbers that it's a fine game, but it's not my cup of tea.
My expectations aren't too high, but the game should at least work properly. I do believe that it's time to evolve, though. MMOs are staying pretty much the same, and it's getting boring. It's 2009! It's time for devs to step their game up, innovate!
As far as I remember did LOTRO have the worst lack of content in a launching game I ever seen so it wasn't perfect either. They been patching it in for years now, buggs isn't the only problem of a launching MMO.
But yes, any new MMO will be bashed by a lot of players today.
The problem with the games that have been released the last few years have been that they are not fun enough to play however, not buggs or lack of content.
Lack of content is relative. I paid a few months, and my highest character was like level 30. I had no problem with a lack of content, however I realize in that same time some folks were at level 50 with not much else to do.
But Tubine quickly started a pattern of regular patch releases that seemed to keep people quite happy.
And keep in mind, Turbine delivered what they promised at launch, which is all anyone can ask for.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As far as I remember did LOTRO have the worst lack of content in a launching game I ever seen so it wasn't perfect either. They been patching it in for years now, buggs isn't the only problem of a launching MMO.
But yes, any new MMO will be bashed by a lot of players today.
The problem with the games that have been released the last few years have been that they are not fun enough to play however, not buggs or lack of conten
It hasnt even been out for 2 years yet and they packed on tons of content.
I think yes on this site. This site is full of vets from the days of old SWG, EQ, and UO. Even people in this thread has stated they basicly justw ant a sandbox and one even said they wanted all linear games to fail. Well, imo, I think we won't see a AAA sandbox game. Unless one of these indie companies can make it huge why bother? Follow the WoW format make some changes of your own and you can reach a much wider audience.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Of coarse any MMO is going to get criticism from some ppl. I mean there are people that say WoW is the worst MMO ever, and it may be for them but most people can recognize the good with the bad.
And if there are so many people that hate new incoming games that just means there's that much of a potential player base for something new.
The problem is this year we've just had a lot of badly made MMOs. I mean Tabula Rosa, AoC, PoB? It's like they all saw what happened to Vanguard and figured if worse came to worse SOE would buy them.
But there's also been a huge drop in innovation after the huge success of WoW for some reason. I mean lets skim over the history of MMOs. First there was Ultima online (wow, an MMO, how novel!), then EQ1 (omg! it's an MMO in 3D), and... well the next one I played was FFXI (oh cool, still first generation but now there's weapon and magic combos's for a more interactive group dynamic) and then in 2003-4 boom! A new generation, it's like all the game companies knew they could do better so they made some radical stuff. I mean this is the time we got EVE and Guild Wars, still two completely unique MMOs unlike any others. And of coarse we had the EQ2/WoW war (lol I was so sure EQ2 was gonna win that one), which both came up with the basic combat system we see what seems like everything copying today.
All they did was think, "Hey, lets give melee classes spells too! ...well call em... skills! or comat arts!" But it suddenly made the pace of these games much faster and you felt like you were doing a lot more. Now though everyone copies the model of combat. And don't tell me about AoC, all they did in the end was change it from pressing 1 button to use a skill to pressing 3 buttons to use a skill.
You can see a huge difference between the way developers approached thing back in 2003-4 and now. Back then they knew the genere could be so much more and decided to experiment and think outside of the box, so we got new games that were radically different like GW, EVE, and WoW. Now though developers (or more likely publishers) just embrace the box, thinking they can make a decent WoW clone without having to spend the type of money Blizzard did.
So in 2005-8 we get some decent but ungroundbreaking titles like DDO, LoTRO, and WAR. They all try to be different but in a safe way. They all use essentially the same combat system as WoW/EQ2 but then go for some nitch audiance that WoW has let slip away, like players that prefer PvP or more realistic graphics.
However we can't blame developers/publishers completely for being so prudent. After all, they have to pitch there idea to investors who just saw Lord British and Mr. EQ1 burn plenty of cash on there totally new and groundbreaking MMO venture.
So now it's seemed like the industry has finally collapsed on it's lame ideas and thus led Tabula Rosa being the first major MMO title I've heard of dieing and AoC being launched without a second half.
The problem is people, such as people here, complain about nothing new in the MMORPG genre, then some company does make something new like Pirates of the Burning Sea or Auto Assault and the developers get bashed to hell by people screaming "YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS LIKE WOW DID" about every feature.
They want new, but then they complain that it's different than what's old.