PvE - any "questing" or story, really?

Airk · January 2009

Heya,

I got into EVE on day one, and while the universe itself was fun, the complete and utter lack of an involving plot or worthwhile PvE ultimately turned me off of the game. I played for nearly three years, but ultimately, building ships just to run around blowing up other players gets dull.

I need PvE. I need content. PvP is nice, but it's not enough.

I'm an old veteran of the Wing Commander and TIE Fighter series; I realize they were single player games, but as many MMO's like WoW have proven, it's easy enough to take stories from single-player RPG's and turn them into MMO format.

Will this game have any story/PvE worth doing, or is this just EVE with an actual interactive combat mode?

Elsabolts · January 2009

CCP will come out of there comma when Star Trek online launches and they start loseing subs. I would bet there planing some stuff we shall see.

Airk · January 2009

Originally posted by Elsabolts

CCP will come out of there comma when Star Trek online launches and they start loseing subs. I would bet there planing some stuff we shall see.

errr.... what did you just say? That was barely English and didn't even address my question... at all.

Elsabolts · January 2009

Originally posted by Airk

Heya,
I got into EVE on day one, and while the universe itself was fun, the complete and utter lack of an involving plot or worthwhile PvE ultimately turned me off of the game. I played for nearly three years, but ultimately, building ships just to run around blowing up other players gets dull.
I need PvE. I need content. PvP is nice, but it's not enough.
I'm an old veteran of the Wing Commander and TIE Fighter series; I realize they were single player games, but as many MMO's like WoW have proven, it's easy enough to take stories from single-player RPG's and turn them into MMO format.
Will this game have any story/PvE worth doing, or is this just EVE with an actual interactive combat mode?

Sorry was replying to this thread, in any case there gonna need to do something or there gonna lose subs to Star Trek or Jumpgate mmo's coming out.

Elsabolts · January 2009

Opps I really screwed this post up sorry, i was responding to what i thought was an EvE post. Jumpgate looks promiseing if they add some avatars walk around and some planet landing we shall see.

Airk · January 2009

errr.... you still didn't answer my question. Did you even read my post?

I'm asking if Jumpgate will have any worthy PvE to speak of.

Elsabolts · January 2009

Im not sure it will is my answer.

IstvanND · February 2009

Originally posted by Airk

errr.... you still didn't answer my question. Did you even read my post?
I'm asking if Jumpgate will have any worthy PvE to speak of.

JGE will have a substantial amount of PvE content, especially when compared to JGC, which had practically none (there was just one kind of limited AI in JGC). The mission system incorporates a mixture of handwritten and generated mission content - more like Freelancer in this regard, than like WC or X-Wing series games. The mission system can also be entirely ignored, but it's reasonably handy if you want some quick credits and xp.

Ortog · February 2009

Originally posted by IstvanND
JGE will have a substantial amount of PvE content, especially when compared to JGC, which had practically none (there was just one kind of limited AI in JGC). The mission system incorporates a mixture of handwritten and generated mission content - more like Freelancer in this regard, than like WC or X-Wing series games. The mission system can also be entirely ignored, but it's reasonably handy if you want some quick credits and xp.

And how exactly are you going to stop your game to be a gankfeast?

What mechanisms and what kind of enforcement you are going to use to stop this generation of players from beeing their normal selfes and spoil everything for the people that arent that interessed in PVP?

How are you going to reassure mature players not interested in PVP, that they will not be "ganked" over and over again in their initial ships by hordes of pre adolescent players shouting: "Powned n00b, LOL, ROFLCOPTER"?

IstvanND · February 2009

Perhaps you'd like to ask that question in another thread? The OP began this thread to ask about PvE and story issues.

Ortog · February 2009

My apologies Istvan. I expressed myselfe incorrectly.

My question should be read as: is there a way that PVE players can do said content without being molested by PVP adepts, or we would be a constant target?

And Istvan, since we are, indead, talking about PVE, would it be assumed that the storyline, if any, is an integrant part of the game and could be enjoyed without any incursion in PVP if so desired, or the nature of the game itselfe will be prevent this?

Do you plan to have PVE servers with only consensual PVP?

Are you taking measures to avoid the all prevalent slide towards easy mode that seems to aflict most MMOs nowadays and transforms PVE in just a matter of time investement and grinding?

IstvanND · February 2009

Ah, I see. I'm sorry I misunderstood. Thank you for clarifying your questions!

At present - and I mean to make it very clear that this is still subject to change - the server design includes an area that is consensual-PvP-only, and an area that is open-PvP. This is somewhat like the old Jumpgate Classic system of regulated and unregulated space, or EVE's system of high-security and no-security space. We will also have PvP arenas, an equivalent of staged battleground "games" - not unlike a traditional multiplayer FPS environment.

In the consensual-only areas of space, both parties must set flags to participate in PvP. This is a big departure from the JGC system. These consensual-PvP areas will, understandably, have much of the PvE content. However, there will also be optional PvE content (really, all the PvE content in the game could be considered optional - but on the other hand the same can be said about the PvP) available in the open-PvP areas, though balancing that PvE content with the need to not interfere with the open PvP nature of those sectors is still in some question. I believe it is safe to say that the game can be played however one wants, without anyone being forced into a PvP path (by being "ganked") or PvE path (by a need to grind) not of their choosing.

We are designing with this hybrid server ruleset in mind, but this does not rule out having open-PvP-only servers, or no-PvP servers. Also, but this is my opinion only, I would imagine that our arena-based (consensual) PvP would be available on all servers, as the arenas are decoupled from the rest of the game environment.

As far as measures to avoid the slide toward "easy mode", that is a question that would be better answered by our Producer.

I hope this response at least partially addresses your questions.

pencilrick · February 2009

Originally posted by Airk

Heya,
I got into EVE on day one, and while the universe itself was fun, the complete and utter lack of an involving plot or worthwhile PvE ultimately turned me off of the game. I played for nearly three years, but ultimately, building ships just to run around blowing up other players gets dull.
I need PvE. I need content. PvP is nice, but it's not enough.
I'm an old veteran of the Wing Commander and TIE Fighter series; I realize they were single player games, but as many MMO's like WoW have proven, it's easy enough to take stories from single-player RPG's and turn them into MMO format.
Will this game have any story/PvE worth doing, or is this just EVE with an actual interactive combat mode?

Stories and plots, in my opinion, are better left to movies and books. Onine gaming is about "worlds", not pre-fabricated "stories."

You can have content in worlds. The main difference is that you make decisions impacting your destiny, rather than being forced down some linear path of 2nd-rate story telling.

My advice, at least what I follow myself, is to be very skeptical of any new game that claims it is designed around a story. I'll take a "world" any day over a "story."

drogtor · February 2009

Originally posted by pencilrick
Stories and plots, in my opinion, are better left to movies and books. Onine gaming is about "worlds", not pre-fabricated "stories."
You can have content in worlds. The main difference is that you make decisions impacting your destiny, rather than being forced down some linear path of 2nd-rate story telling.
My advice, at least what I follow myself, is to be very skeptical of any new game that claims it is designed around a story. I'll take a "world" any day over a "story."

Every game has its own "world" in my opinion. Whether that world contains added elements to it (as in PvE bosses/raids/etc) is something entirely different from the same exact world without those added elements (as in no bosses/raids/etc and only players, players, and more players).

You dont have to be forced down a linear story telling (that's a typical flaw of mediocre game designing, and not a pre-requisite of the kind of world the OP is mentioning). I do agree with the OP, my MMO needs to offer me alot more than "here's your piece of land, now go nuts and kill each other" [no offence intended]. And that is why i also dont play EvE (in addition to the lousy point n click movement )

pencilrick · February 2009

Originally posted by drogtor

Originally posted by pencilrick
Stories and plots, in my opinion, are better left to movies and books. Onine gaming is about "worlds", not pre-fabricated "stories."
You can have content in worlds. The main difference is that you make decisions impacting your destiny, rather than being forced down some linear path of 2nd-rate story telling.
My advice, at least what I follow myself, is to be very skeptical of any new game that claims it is designed around a story. I'll take a "world" any day over a "story."

Every game has its own "world" in my opinion. Whether that world contains added elements to it (as in PvE bosses/raids/etc) is something entirely different from the same exact world without those added elements (as in no bosses/raids/etc and only players, players, and more players).

You dont have to be forced down a linear story telling (that's a typical flaw of mediocre game designing, and not a pre-requisite of the kind of world the OP is mentioning). I do agree with the OP, my MMO needs to offer me alot more than "here's your piece of land, now go nuts and kill each other" [no offence intended]. And that is why i also dont play EvE (in addition to the lousy point n click movement )

I think we are somewhat in agreement. "Story" can mean different things to different people. If "story" equals forced linear gameplay with annoying cutscenes (ala. AOC, LOTRO, WOLTK) that players have to endure, then that really sucks.

However, if "story" equals factions and setting, and background history, then that is just fine. Basically, I want to feel like a free person in a challenging environment, and not some actor in a 2nd rate play written by a computer dev.

Maybe the word that devs need to start using is "setting" rather than "story".

drogtor · February 2009

Aye i hope that is what the devs were going after when they came up with the randomly generated missions in JGE, where you dont have to follow a linear game path and enjoy the universe while still having some sort of background element of joy to it.

Man if there was one game i'd want to beta test, it would be JGE

baff · February 2009

Originally posted by IstvanND

Ah, I see. I'm sorry I misunderstood. Thank you for clarifying your questions!
At present - and I mean to make it very clear that this is still subject to change - the server design includes an area that is consensual-PvP-only, and an area that is open-PvP. This is somewhat like the old Jumpgate Classic system of regulated and unregulated space, or EVE's system of high-security and no-security space. We will also have PvP arenas, an equivalent of staged battleground "games" - not unlike a traditional multiplayer FPS environment.
In the consensual-only areas of space, both parties must set flags to participate in PvP. This is a big departure from the JGC system. These consensual-PvP areas will, understandably, have much of the PvE content. However, there will also be optional PvE content (really, all the PvE content in the game could be considered optional - but on the other hand the same can be said about the PvP) available in the open-PvP areas, though balancing that PvE content with the need to not interfere with the open PvP nature of those sectors is still in some question. I believe it is safe to say that the game can be played however one wants, without anyone being forced into a PvP path (by being "ganked") or PvE path (by a need to grind) not of their choosing.
We are designing with this hybrid server ruleset in mind, but this does not rule out having open-PvP-only servers, or no-PvP servers. Also, but this is my opinion only, I would imagine that our arena-based (consensual) PvP would be available on all servers, as the arenas are decoupled from the rest of the game environment.
As far as measures to avoid the slide toward "easy mode", that is a question that would be better answered by our Producer.
I hope this response at least partially addresses your questions.

This is the perfect answer to seperate me from my money.

Just what i wanted to hear.

Would you perhaps be willing to recount to us an example of a notable quest in the game that you have seen?

A stand out one that impressed you perhaps.

drogtor · February 2009

*post edited for misunderstanding*

Ah i just noticed Istvan being in the dev team of JGE, i'd love to ask you of the general opinion of the team towards Earth 'n' Beyond. Have you guys had any experience with it, and what did you think of the game's design as a whole (ie did you notice some strengths in it that you thought of implementing in JGE, or any weaknesses that you made sure wont be present in JGE)?

btw: that one-in-all server design sounds really good in theory, hope it works out for the game coz i honestly hate categorized servers (yes even by region for some reason)

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