Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Novel Idea to replace Questing systems in MMO's?
Krimzen
Member Posts: 28
Hey guys,
So I've been thinking about new mechanics for MMO's lately, which I know is usually an often debated topic of "what can you do in an MMO that will net you experience that isn't quest grinding or just grinding mobs over and over again."
Well, I think that I have a pretty novel idea, but I am not sure if it has been done before or not. If it has, please do share the name of the game because I'd love to play it.
Basically my idea is 3 major towns that all players are stationed at when not gaining exp. These towns would have the normal functions (profession trainers, auction house, etc...), but there would be absolutely no quests, and no open world. Rather, there would be soloable instances with the entrances built straight from the major city (kind of like how Stockades, Violet Hold, and Rage Faire Chasm instances are built right in the major cities in WoW,) that would have clear beginning and end so that there is a sense of accomplishment other than completing a quest, and so that it is not just grinding countless mobs as they respawn.
As you go in the instance, there would be certain "events" that would grant more exp than a normal mob kill if you perform the action correctly (similar to Resident Evil 4 for Wii, or Legend of Dragoon button timing, for example).
As you get stronger, you would advance to the next instance, and go on-wards in that fashion up to max level. If the next instance proves too difficult, you would grind the previous one until you are strong enough to handle the next instance.
As far as getting the best gear, there would be scalable raids, which are similar to instances, but you would need groups to complete them.
Is there anything remotely close to this that has been done in the past?
Comments
If everything is a solo player instance, why is this online? Save the bandwidth and make a single player game.
If you just want people to team up now and then, you could do a lobby game like Guild Wars or something. But it doesn't sound like you need an MMO.
Whether you call the game an MMO is just semantics. He is proposing a lobby MP RPG and that is certainly a fine type of game.
No one likes instancing.
Whether you call the game an MMO is just semantics. He is proposing a lobby MP RPG and that is certainly a fine type of game.
It's not really just semantics. He's not proposing an MMORPG, he's proposing something like Diablo 2. Yes, Diablo 2 is a fine game, but it's not an MMORPG.
Yeah I agree with what this guy said. I don't really thing anyone would play an mmo with single player instances. Because then it wouldn't be an mmo anymore. MMO's need to be about grouping and having the luxery to solo.
Isn't this how Guildwars and DDO work, except for, possibly, the solo thing?
Venge Sunsoar
yup. i think he's pretty much describing guild wars.
See the thing is, single player / console games bore me. I feel very alone when I play them now and I am painfully aware that everything is just a computer program.
I don't necessarily like to group with other players all the time in MMO's, but I enjoy reading guild chat / City Chat. I enjoy having other players craft items for a price, I enjoy a living breathing auction house. I even enjoy the occasional annoying player.
When you play a single player game, there is no one to show off to. No NPC is going to marvel at your gear , or ask you on a whim if you want to group up in an instance.
Like I said, I play my MMO's 80% of the time solo, but that doesn't mean I don't like the occasional group invite or to socialize while chilling in a major city.
So ideally what I'd be looking for is the major city to be filled with players going about their business as they would, and to have the grinding portions be solo instanced or group instanced depending on what you want to do.
I don't understand the mentality of not wanting quests.
The problem isn't quests it's the quality of the quests.
We are all tired of "go kill zyx mob X 100 for 10 drops of meat and return to me for a reward" It's BS like that people are fed up with.
Quests should have more meaning and evolving around the main storyline much more than we see in todays mmo's
"I Have lost my flute. Can you go kill 10 crabs by the lake until you find the crab that took it?" It's retarded stuff like this that makes most of us bang our heads against the wall. Have quests where you are part of the main story line and make you believe you are making a difference. I hope KotOR online get's it right.
Yes this sounds like DDO with no storyline... because no quests. The second you add "Pick up this item and get to the end or kil this mob" it becomes a quest.
I just started playing LoTRo, and while some quests are the " go kill the bear that ate my homework" variety for the most part I feel like I am doing quests in a storyline. Killing all the bad Blackwold raiders sacking the towns for instance. The problem is, a lot of people don't actually read the quests and have no idea why they are doing something. These ARE RPG's and if you want to be immersed in the story, read the darn quests.
Count me in on the agree thingy! Hardly anybody reads quests anymore. I lose count of how many times people in LoTRO jump on the advice chat asking a question about a certain quest, when it's right in the damn quest log. Makes me nuts!
The mentality of not wanting quests, in my opinion is the fact that they flood you with quests. I wouldn't mind one 4-6 chain quest per dungeon if that was my only quest. Hell, I wouldn't even care if it said kill 100 of this mob...
What I hate is when your quest log gets filled with 15-18 quests that all chain into 4-5 part quests of all different sorts of things. So now you feel completly overwhelmed and decide to just pick one and run to the location of the quest, but while you are there, you find a sub camp that offers 3 more quests on top of the 18 you already have.
Then when you finally get it down to a reasonable number, you move on to the next town just to get completly overloaded with 15 more 5-chain quests.
The quality of quests in general is derivative of the overall design of most MMO. Off the top of my head, here are some things that limit their fun factor:
1) There are lots of them. Since it's not 1:1 in terms of number of quests needed to level 9in other words, it isn't 1 quest to level up, but sometimes dozens), developers have to create hundreds of them. There aren't hundreds of quests in most single player RPGs, which are far more reactive to the actions of players, and that brings us to...
2) Static or nearly-static worlds are present in nearly every game. EVE is an exception (UO as well, or Shadowbane for that matter), but you'll find that its quests are largely understood to be boring, anyway, because they aren't much more than a vehicle for gold farming, versus EXP gaining quests in other MMOs. Static worlds are "neccessary" because, when a quest is completed, it still has to be available for the next player to come along. WoW did phasing in WOTLK that allows player actions to change their view of the world, but this would only be possible in longer quest lines--in other words, only a few quests among the thousands that exist.
The solution is that you either kill quests completely and give players a good, alternative solution to levelling (see UO, EVE, or WAR perhaps?), or dramatically reduce the number of quests so that you can focus on quality. Both solutions have BIG BIG BIG design implications. Personally (if you could't tell) I'd prefer skill-based mechanics instead of level-based mechanics, and a few very strong tutorial quest lines that ultimately open up into a dynamic world.
Oh, failed to mention another alternative. It would be neat to replace class trainers with ability quests (e.g., stealth, an AoE), which would an extension of an in Guild Wars, I believe. In other words, you're told to find a person who will teach you something new. If you complete the challenge, you get the abiity. LOTRO, now that I think of it, has something similar.
Instead of levels, you'd gain abilities. Fewer quests, better quests.
Well to really note an MMORPG version of this kind of exists in Wizards101 and to an extent DDO. Guild Wars is kind of based on that principle and due to this each of these games offer an enjoyable single player experience. With the exception of DDO, which has some points in it's design (or used to) where other player's skills were useful. That's not a bad deal either.
I'd like to see less pve / single player stuff in mmorpgs personally. The whole online and massive multiplayer bit just seems novel to the concept of mmorpgs. I miss the concept that players were going to shape the world around them as presented in the pvp gameplay of Ultima Online and a few other games afterward.
My novel suggestion would be, have no quests. Make a game where players have needs and wants and are willing to pay or reward other players to make it happen if they can't do it their selves. But no mmorpg could ever foster a community that required a community.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
It would seem that every MMO out there right now has at least one fatal flaw that holds it back form being great. The only game that IMO gets everything is WoW, as unpoplar as I am going to be for saying that. Now that may just be me being too picky, but after scanning the availability of free and p2p MMO's, I think I am between Dungeon Runners and DDO based on what I am looking for from this post. But, there are two things I really don't like about Dungeon Runners, and one thing I don't like about DDO.
Dungeon Runners:
No Auction House. The auction house is loads of fun. How are you not going to have an auction house in an MMO? That means all your gear comes from random drops. Thats like trying to build a great deck in card games without the ability to buy single cards.
Classless System: Some people may like the idea of being able to learn any class's abilities in the game, but if I am going to be a mage, then I don't want the warrior to be able to cast fireball too, even if it does drastic less damage than if a mage casts it, its just the principle of it. That defeats the whole purpose of classes.
I do like that you can see other players in major towns and that the level cap is 100 and levels go fast.
DDO:
From what I understand the level cap is 14 or 16, which means the levels are going to go by verrry slow, and I need that gratification of leveling.
What I do like:
Warforged Races is different from the norm
To me, which means personaly, it sounds like a somewhat upgraded multiplayer game, can definitly be fun to play that way, not sure if it has been done or is going to be done, but if it's done I "personaly" hope it will fit into the multi player segment of games instead of MMORPG's.
It can be a very intresting game if it's a multiplayer game, keeping a limit on how many people could group into a instance, but have the towns wide-open for anyone who could login. to do the things mentioned in OP.
But if it's going to be in the genre of MMORPG then I must say that I keep hoping MMORPG will once again become more of a open-world, which again personaly I don't feel your idea suites the MMORPG genre, but in my opinion could very well suite the multiplayer online genre. Got similar feeling about games like APB which to me will do fine if they would be marketed multiplayer online game, same with Tabula Rasa if it would have been a multiplayer online game (leaving out subfee) it would have done fine in my opinion, but placing it into the MMORPG and with that the fact the name of it's "creator" created expectations of it being a MMORPG and not what to me it turned out to be just a very enjoyeble multiplayer game was not what most including me where expecting.