The main problem is that to make any game, you need either a lot of dedicated people who will put in hours of work at no cost, or you need a lot of money. While not impossible, it's hard to get a team together willing to work for nothing, that are able to make something of a high enough quality to stand out for people to try.
The people making the games as their jobs, they need to get funding from somewhere, to make the game, be it from sales of a previous game, or more likely, from publishers investing in an idea.
The publishers however care very little about trying to break into new areas, so the majority of them will fund the copycat games the market is rapidly filling up with, instead of daring to try something new. Sure, a few of the copycat games have different directions they take the format in, look at the difference between games like daoc, wow and lotro for example, all games that have their roots in similar places, but branched in different ways. This type of development though is getting very common, and the branches getting less and less.
As to what can stop it, well, people not buying the same old crap with new sparkly graphics. Not going to happen though, sadly, so I think we're pretty much stuck with it, and just need to keep an eye more on the smaller people in the industry.
------------------------------ Currently playing: Rift
former player of: DAoC, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, SWG (pre-NGE), WoW, Warhammer online, LotR:O
Its all a matter of taste ofcorse but, last few good games for me and i mean realy good top notch.
Bioshock brilliant
Fallout 3 come close becouse of mods avaible.
And for mmo's i hope Darkfall.
These games above all these years got my intrest sinds 2002, morrowind and ac2.
Consoles i dont bother im a pc gamer last time ive played a console game was on my dreamcast PSO, sinds then its only pc.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Originally posted by sanicek I have to agree, games simply turned mainstream, are about big money and are made for mindless salivating masses. Computer games were at their best in the 1997-2000 era I believe, genres defined in the decade before that each got several quality games taking it to almost perfection. After that the clone era began, combining random engine with trash content and gameplay for a quick buck. Most sequels simplified things.
This is nothing more than a case of nostalgia run amok.
The late 90s were a disaster for games. Developers had just discovered how to make things 3D, and many of them rushed off madly to do so. In their rush to get 3D graphics in place, they often neglected gameplay. Often they even neglected graphics, by failing to consider how to let players see what's going on well enough to make a decent game of it.
Looking back, I can't find a single truly great game that was released in that time span. Civilization 2 was very good, I guess. Red Alert was pretty good. But great? No. There had been great games released before (albeit generally for consoles), and there have been great games released since, but the late 90s was a terrible time for gaming.
Are you on crack?
The Myth series
X-Com: UFO Defense "Enemy Unknown"
Doom
Quake
Everquest
Starcraft
Warcraft
Eye of The Beholder 1+2
Resident Evil
Dungeon Keeper
The list goes on and on and on
As soon as somebody brings up CoD4 as a great game i feel like banging my head against the wall. The game took a day and a half to complete only to be put back on the shelf again. It's extremely linear, fast to complete and the multiplayer part are plagued with aimbots and wallhacks, which admittedly plagues all online FPS games.
CoD4 is a prime example of selling the brainless masses a product based purely on graphics. The game does look great but it has zero replayabillty and is extremely linear. That's basically how i judge a good game. Something i would want to play again. CoD4 never.
The 90's where the peak of good gaming experiences and great games. I want something new with the same quality and thought put into it. Screw directx10 compatible games. Who cares about that when the content isn't there
Give me a time machine and a memory eraser and i will be happy.
Well if the developers out there are gamers too wouldn't you think some of them would eventually try to make a game even at the cost of some money and put their time into it? Yeah it may take forever to get the game done, but if it's the money issue then maybe people need to worry less about money and start investing time into something they care about.
I'm going into the IT field because it's something I actually care about. I want to do something like tech support. I put time into it now and don't get paid anything and it's nothing I can put on a resume as experience. It may be considered a total waste of time, but it's what I enjoy doing. I have no problem working for free on some things if it helps me learn something or it's something I enjoy. Yeah you need to make some money, but there's also the part of enjoying it.
Do the teams really enjoy making these awful games? If not, then why are they doing it other than pay the rent and bills? Why can't they work on something people would enjoy in free time, it might bring them money later on and if it doesn't then they quite possible made a game at least some of us would enjoy.
I'm seeing a lot of people saying to take a look at some of the really small teams making games. I've seen some of them but never got around to trying any. I'm going to start doing that maybe there will be something there to enjoy.
Developers still care, but they are driven by the suits who control the purse strings and are encouraged to follow models that have proven successful in the past due to the high cost it takes to develop them.
IMO, games like VG, AOC, WAR and TR all suffered from the same issue, in each case the people financing the effort decided it was time to ship the game and make money and cut the cash drain, even though most of the development teams would have preferred more time.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
its not all the developers fault. Alot of the blame for the current lackluster game industry is thanks to financers whom pull the purse strings. Developers pitch their game ideas...groups invest but somehow worm their way into having a say in the product. They grow impatient and give deadlines for the game release..and then wont let the developers acutally make their game. The fiancers are too afraid to go for inovation..no they want to use WoW formats..because its been a money maker in thepast. The financers are too afraid of risk to let developers take the time to make that "WoW killer". In all honesty..I dont see the draw of WoW. I played for a month and was less than impressed..seemed more like a mind numbing grindfest but that is just my opinion.
Anyone who blames the developers needs to sit back and wake up. Developers are the people that people that work on the game, just like the graphics people, and the sound people.
Everyone that works as a team with other teams to build a game have people they need to report to. This can be leads, managers, financers, etc. and if they don't like how something is progressing and they have enough power/say in the outcome it's going to get changed against the developers and other teams wishes.
Guess what, that's their job and that's what pays their bills and takes care of their family. I don't know anyone that would want to get into the gaming industry as someone that works on games without have some sort of gaming passion. So it's not greed on their part that makes changes and decisions on timeframes and what would be considered the "final product."
The reason a lot of games release unfinished is because of investors and other reasons far out of the reach of the people actually putting the effort into completing the game. There is a period of time after 1.0 of the game is done and sent to be packaged, cloned, and shipped out which allows them to work even more overtime to try and get the last minute details ironed out in put in a patch that your computer, 360, ps3, wii, or whatever can download before you actually play.
There are many factors on why many people feel the current game selection is saturated with clones and mindless dribble. Nostalgia, boredom, personal preference, etc. are just some of the reasons. However that doesn't mean the market isn't in fact saturated, which it is to a degree.
edit: Sorry for lack of formatting, using a text-based browser has its limitations.
Anyone who blames the developers needs to sit back and wake up. Developers are the people that people that work on the game, just like the graphics people, and the sound people. Everyone that works as a team with other teams to build a game have people they need to report to. This can be leads, managers, financers, etc. and if they don't like how something is progressing and they have enough power/say in the outcome it's going to get changed against the developers and other teams wishes. Guess what, that's their job and that's what pays their bills and takes care of their family. I don't know anyone that would want to get into the gaming industry as someone that works on games without have some sort of gaming passion. So it's not greed on their part that makes changes and decisions on timeframes and what would be considered the "final product." The reason a lot of games release unfinished is because of investors and other reasons far out of the reach of the people actually putting the effort into completing the game. There is a period of time after 1.0 of the game is done and sent to be packaged, cloned, and shipped out which allows them to work even more overtime to try and get the last minute details ironed out in put in a patch that your computer, 360, ps3, wii, or whatever can download before you actually play. There are many factors on why many people feel the current game selection is saturated with clones and mindless dribble. Nostalgia, boredom, personal preference, etc. are just some of the reasons. However that doesn't mean the market isn't in fact saturated, which it is to a degree. edit: Sorry for lack of formatting, using a text-based browser has its limitations.
I think its happening with the whole video game industry. I still think AC had the perferct formula for an MMO but I enjoy playing LOTRO and WOW also. I have just grown tired to the level grind and thats all that is really being pushed out now days.
Two of my favorite games series have been ruined by developers the rainbow six and ghost recon games of the past are 10x better than the current ones. I dont think the developers care when it comes to these games, hell they have even come out and said that they wont be going back to the past formula for those games because there isnt enough of a market for it. Im not sure where the market went too after they made the first 3 really tactical but apparently its gone now.
I just think these companies get a taste of the console money and they lose focus on what made the games so great in the beginning in an effort to get as many sales as possible. I agree with alot of the people in this thread its going to be the indie developers that bring some of the best games out in the future not the big companeis looking for more sales and subscriptions.
I've noticed this over the past year, ALL games are getting worse. Not just the MMO's but console games are getting pretty pathetic too. I've wondered why this is and this is the only thing I have come up with. The developers just don't care about making good games anymore. Everything is turning into money. "Let's make a game that brings in a lot of money!" What happened to "Let's make a cool game" Been going through MMO's for 6-7 years now and they are getting worse. I'm upset and I'm sad. Why can't they go back to making good games which will just bring them money instead of focusing completely on money. What happened to make all this happen? Agree/Disagree? Why or why not?
Yeah, man. You're right. It's a conspiracy. Game developers just have orgies in their huge piles of money now. Cocaine and prostitutes are the only thing which keep their broken bodies moving.
Here, lets try this. Why don't you name a genre you like, and I'll name a few games. Then you can tell me whether they're bad or not. Fair enough?
I've noticed this over the past year, ALL games are getting worse. Not just the MMO's but console games are getting pretty pathetic too. I've wondered why this is and this is the only thing I have come up with. The developers just don't care about making good games anymore. Everything is turning into money. "Let's make a game that brings in a lot of money!" What happened to "Let's make a cool game" Been going through MMO's for 6-7 years now and they are getting worse. I'm upset and I'm sad. Why can't they go back to making good games which will just bring them money instead of focusing completely on money. What happened to make all this happen? Agree/Disagree? Why or why not?
Yeah, man. You're right. It's a conspiracy. Game developers just have orgies in their huge piles of money now. Cocaine and prostitutes are the only thing which keep their broken bodies moving.
Here, lets try this. Why don't you name a genre you like, and I'll name a few games. Then you can tell me whether they're bad or not. Fair enough?
Obviously game developers are the evil and the root of every problem. What a wondeful world of black & white.
I've noticed this over the past year, ALL games are getting worse. Not just the MMO's but console games are getting pretty pathetic too. I've wondered why this is and this is the only thing I have come up with. The developers just don't care about making good games anymore. Everything is turning into money. "Let's make a game that brings in a lot of money!" What happened to "Let's make a cool game" Been going through MMO's for 6-7 years now and they are getting worse. I'm upset and I'm sad. Why can't they go back to making good games which will just bring them money instead of focusing completely on money. What happened to make all this happen? Agree/Disagree? Why or why not?
Yeah, man. You're right. It's a conspiracy. Game developers just have orgies in their huge piles of money now. Cocaine and prostitutes are the only thing which keep their broken bodies moving.
Here, lets try this. Why don't you name a genre you like, and I'll name a few games. Then you can tell me whether they're bad or not. Fair enough?
Comments
The main problem is that to make any game, you need either a lot of dedicated people who will put in hours of work at no cost, or you need a lot of money. While not impossible, it's hard to get a team together willing to work for nothing, that are able to make something of a high enough quality to stand out for people to try.
The people making the games as their jobs, they need to get funding from somewhere, to make the game, be it from sales of a previous game, or more likely, from publishers investing in an idea.
The publishers however care very little about trying to break into new areas, so the majority of them will fund the copycat games the market is rapidly filling up with, instead of daring to try something new. Sure, a few of the copycat games have different directions they take the format in, look at the difference between games like daoc, wow and lotro for example, all games that have their roots in similar places, but branched in different ways. This type of development though is getting very common, and the branches getting less and less.
As to what can stop it, well, people not buying the same old crap with new sparkly graphics. Not going to happen though, sadly, so I think we're pretty much stuck with it, and just need to keep an eye more on the smaller people in the industry.
------------------------------
Currently playing: Rift
former player of: DAoC, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, SWG (pre-NGE), WoW, Warhammer online, LotR:O
Its all a matter of taste ofcorse but, last few good games for me and i mean realy good top notch.
Bioshock brilliant
Fallout 3 come close becouse of mods avaible.
And for mmo's i hope Darkfall.
These games above all these years got my intrest sinds 2002, morrowind and ac2.
Consoles i dont bother im a pc gamer last time ive played a console game was on my dreamcast PSO, sinds then its only pc.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
This is nothing more than a case of nostalgia run amok.
The late 90s were a disaster for games. Developers had just discovered how to make things 3D, and many of them rushed off madly to do so. In their rush to get 3D graphics in place, they often neglected gameplay. Often they even neglected graphics, by failing to consider how to let players see what's going on well enough to make a decent game of it.
Looking back, I can't find a single truly great game that was released in that time span. Civilization 2 was very good, I guess. Red Alert was pretty good. But great? No. There had been great games released before (albeit generally for consoles), and there have been great games released since, but the late 90s was a terrible time for gaming.
Are you on crack?
The Myth series
X-Com: UFO Defense "Enemy Unknown"
Doom
Quake
Everquest
Starcraft
Warcraft
Eye of The Beholder 1+2
Resident Evil
Dungeon Keeper
The list goes on and on and on
As soon as somebody brings up CoD4 as a great game i feel like banging my head against the wall. The game took a day and a half to complete only to be put back on the shelf again. It's extremely linear, fast to complete and the multiplayer part are plagued with aimbots and wallhacks, which admittedly plagues all online FPS games.
CoD4 is a prime example of selling the brainless masses a product based purely on graphics. The game does look great but it has zero replayabillty and is extremely linear. That's basically how i judge a good game. Something i would want to play again. CoD4 never.
The 90's where the peak of good gaming experiences and great games. I want something new with the same quality and thought put into it. Screw directx10 compatible games. Who cares about that when the content isn't there
Give me a time machine and a memory eraser and i will be happy.
Well if the developers out there are gamers too wouldn't you think some of them would eventually try to make a game even at the cost of some money and put their time into it? Yeah it may take forever to get the game done, but if it's the money issue then maybe people need to worry less about money and start investing time into something they care about.
I'm going into the IT field because it's something I actually care about. I want to do something like tech support. I put time into it now and don't get paid anything and it's nothing I can put on a resume as experience. It may be considered a total waste of time, but it's what I enjoy doing. I have no problem working for free on some things if it helps me learn something or it's something I enjoy. Yeah you need to make some money, but there's also the part of enjoying it.
Do the teams really enjoy making these awful games? If not, then why are they doing it other than pay the rent and bills? Why can't they work on something people would enjoy in free time, it might bring them money later on and if it doesn't then they quite possible made a game at least some of us would enjoy.
I'm seeing a lot of people saying to take a look at some of the really small teams making games. I've seen some of them but never got around to trying any. I'm going to start doing that maybe there will be something there to enjoy.
yeah thats right and i agree with you, but be fair to them also cause they're just doing their job... its how you make money....
Developers still care, but they are driven by the suits who control the purse strings and are encouraged to follow models that have proven successful in the past due to the high cost it takes to develop them.
IMO, games like VG, AOC, WAR and TR all suffered from the same issue, in each case the people financing the effort decided it was time to ship the game and make money and cut the cash drain, even though most of the development teams would have preferred more time.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
its not all the developers fault. Alot of the blame for the current lackluster game industry is thanks to financers whom pull the purse strings. Developers pitch their game ideas...groups invest but somehow worm their way into having a say in the product. They grow impatient and give deadlines for the game release..and then wont let the developers acutally make their game. The fiancers are too afraid to go for inovation..no they want to use WoW formats..because its been a money maker in thepast. The financers are too afraid of risk to let developers take the time to make that "WoW killer". In all honesty..I dont see the draw of WoW. I played for a month and was less than impressed..seemed more like a mind numbing grindfest but that is just my opinion.
Everyone that works as a team with other teams to build a game have people they need to report to. This can be leads, managers, financers, etc. and if they don't like how something is progressing and they have enough power/say in the outcome it's going to get changed against the developers and other teams wishes.
Guess what, that's their job and that's what pays their bills and takes care of their family. I don't know anyone that would want to get into the gaming industry as someone that works on games without have some sort of gaming passion. So it's not greed on their part that makes changes and decisions on timeframes and what would be considered the "final product."
The reason a lot of games release unfinished is because of investors and other reasons far out of the reach of the people actually putting the effort into completing the game. There is a period of time after 1.0 of the game is done and sent to be packaged, cloned, and shipped out which allows them to work even more overtime to try and get the last minute details ironed out in put in a patch that your computer, 360, ps3, wii, or whatever can download before you actually play.
There are many factors on why many people feel the current game selection is saturated with clones and mindless dribble. Nostalgia, boredom, personal preference, etc. are just some of the reasons. However that doesn't mean the market isn't in fact saturated, which it is to a degree.
edit: Sorry for lack of formatting, using a text-based browser has its limitations.
<? while (!$i['care']) echo '...'; ?>
You didn't read everything did you?
I think its happening with the whole video game industry. I still think AC had the perferct formula for an MMO but I enjoy playing LOTRO and WOW also. I have just grown tired to the level grind and thats all that is really being pushed out now days.
Two of my favorite games series have been ruined by developers the rainbow six and ghost recon games of the past are 10x better than the current ones. I dont think the developers care when it comes to these games, hell they have even come out and said that they wont be going back to the past formula for those games because there isnt enough of a market for it. Im not sure where the market went too after they made the first 3 really tactical but apparently its gone now.
I just think these companies get a taste of the console money and they lose focus on what made the games so great in the beginning in an effort to get as many sales as possible. I agree with alot of the people in this thread its going to be the indie developers that bring some of the best games out in the future not the big companeis looking for more sales and subscriptions.
Yeah, man. You're right. It's a conspiracy. Game developers just have orgies in their huge piles of money now. Cocaine and prostitutes are the only thing which keep their broken bodies moving.
Here, lets try this. Why don't you name a genre you like, and I'll name a few games. Then you can tell me whether they're bad or not. Fair enough?
Yeah, man. You're right. It's a conspiracy. Game developers just have orgies in their huge piles of money now. Cocaine and prostitutes are the only thing which keep their broken bodies moving.
Here, lets try this. Why don't you name a genre you like, and I'll name a few games. Then you can tell me whether they're bad or not. Fair enough?
Obviously game developers are the evil and the root of every problem. What a wondeful world of black & white.
I did, but I felt I'd re-iterate some of the posts that were made similar to mine. As there were too many people still posting rubbish.
<? while (!$i['care']) echo '...'; ?>
Yeah, man. You're right. It's a conspiracy. Game developers just have orgies in their huge piles of money now. Cocaine and prostitutes are the only thing which keep their broken bodies moving.
Here, lets try this. Why don't you name a genre you like, and I'll name a few games. Then you can tell me whether they're bad or not. Fair enough?
Fair enough rejekt
This guy i quoted did not read everything.